:00:09. > :00:12.Tonight on The Wales Report: Council services in crisis. Is the
:00:12. > :00:16.problem too little money and do councillors have the right
:00:16. > :00:20.priorities? A turbulent week for the Lib Dems as the party in Wales
:00:20. > :00:24.faces new challenges ahead. Nearly 30 years after the miners'
:00:24. > :00:34.strike, we look at the drastic changes to trade unions in Wales.
:00:34. > :00:38.
:00:38. > :00:41.Good evening. It is good to be back. Welcome to our weekly take on the
:00:41. > :00:46.issues that affect lives in all parts of Wales and the people
:00:46. > :00:50.making the decisions. The past week has brought renewed protests
:00:50. > :00:54.against planned cuts in council services and facilities. Local
:00:54. > :00:57.authorities in Wales are trying to balance the books. The Wales Report
:00:57. > :01:01.has found that the funding shortfall faced by Welsh councils
:01:01. > :01:07.is higher than ever and the jaws of what to cut and what to save is
:01:07. > :01:12.more difficult than ever. -- the choice. Helen Callaghan has been
:01:12. > :01:18.witnessing the battle involving Wales's biggest local authority.
:01:18. > :01:23.Right across Wales, in council chambers, in county and City Halls
:01:23. > :01:27.like this one, a drama is being played out about your vital
:01:27. > :01:34.services. Councillors are in deep discussion about which services to
:01:34. > :01:39.cut, which to keep, and whether to put up council tax. We should not
:01:39. > :01:42.have to give up the services and benefits that we rely on. It is
:01:42. > :01:46.decision day for Cardiff Council's budget and it is not just the
:01:46. > :01:51.councillors who have turned up for the meeting. While the tough
:01:51. > :01:55.decisions are being made inside, outside the council taxpayers
:01:55. > :01:59.themselves are making the politicians are aware as vocally as
:01:59. > :02:07.they possibly can exactly which services they want to keep open and
:02:07. > :02:11.why. We are trying to keep our riding school open. It has helped
:02:11. > :02:16.me a lot to regain my strength. will not affect you at the end of
:02:16. > :02:23.the day. It will affect us. understand that. A no, you don't,
:02:23. > :02:28.or you would not be cutting it. want a pool on the side that has
:02:28. > :02:33.been there since 1920. We have to be listened to. Whether or not they
:02:34. > :02:39.pay any attention is up to them. The man at the centre of the storm
:02:39. > :02:43.in Cardiff is head of finance, Councillor Russell good way.
:02:43. > :02:48.Feelings are running high. Everybody has their own particular
:02:48. > :02:53.cause to champion. How difficult is it when you are in there to make
:02:53. > :02:59.these decisions? It is hugely difficult. You end up pleasing
:02:59. > :03:06.nobody. We have a responsibility to set a balanced budget and if we
:03:06. > :03:12.fail to do that today, then 18,000 people in this city will not be
:03:12. > :03:18.happy on 15th April. People are very upset and there's not much I
:03:18. > :03:23.can do. It is going to be a long day for Cardiff council. And for
:03:23. > :03:28.the other authorities across Wales going through the same pain. In
:03:28. > :03:32.total, our councils will receive some �4.4 billion from the Welsh
:03:32. > :03:36.Government in the coming financial year. Although the money pot is
:03:36. > :03:41.shrinking in real terms, councils still have to pay for everything
:03:41. > :03:46.from schools to refuse collection, social services, public toilets and
:03:46. > :03:49.leisure facilities. Councils can swell the coffers by putting up
:03:49. > :03:54.council tax and this year those decisions are more politically
:03:54. > :03:58.explosive than ever. In England, the Westminster Government are
:03:58. > :04:03.rewarding councils for freezing council tax. That policy has
:04:03. > :04:08.resulted in more money, at some �50 million coming to the Welsh
:04:08. > :04:14.Government. But the Welsh Government is not offering similar
:04:14. > :04:18.incentives for Welsh councils, which David Cameron has criticised.
:04:18. > :04:21.This Government has made available money for council tax freeze, with
:04:21. > :04:25.the consequence that the money is available in Wales for the council
:04:25. > :04:29.tax freeze and people in Wales know who to blame if they council tax is
:04:29. > :04:32.not frozen. But the Welsh Government say that the priority
:04:32. > :04:36.here is to put the money towards creating jobs and boosting the
:04:36. > :04:46.economy. They insisted is up to individual councils to decide what
:04:46. > :04:53.
:04:53. > :04:57.to do about council tax. Council tax is expected to go up on average
:04:57. > :05:02.by 3% except Cardiff and Monmouthshire. One way or another,
:05:02. > :05:07.councils have to balance the books. Looking at local authority figures,
:05:07. > :05:14.we have been able to calculate that across Wales there is an estimated
:05:14. > :05:19.shortfall of �128 million. There is a perfect storm around local
:05:19. > :05:26.Government finance at present. Clearly it will be very, very
:05:26. > :05:32.difficult for local councils to keep council tax increases low
:05:32. > :05:38.while at the same time providing services at the level that people
:05:38. > :05:47.expect. But in Cardiff, it is getting dark. Councillors are still
:05:47. > :05:51.debating how to save some �22 million. Well, two hours in and
:05:51. > :05:54.this is no ordinary full council meeting. The campaigners are all in
:05:54. > :05:58.the public gallery and they are making their presence felt.
:05:58. > :06:08.Sometimes they are applauding when petitions are read out but other
:06:08. > :06:09.
:06:09. > :06:12.times they are Hacker link as the debate goes on into the night. --
:06:12. > :06:16.heckling. It is good news for the swimming pool, which will stay open
:06:16. > :06:20.for now. It has been a strong campaign and it reflects how people
:06:20. > :06:25.are feeling about this. It will be great news for everybody, really.
:06:25. > :06:29.It is the end of a long and pretty extraordinary day and night. Most
:06:29. > :06:33.of the protesters have now gone home. Some were disappointed,
:06:33. > :06:36.others have reason to be optimistic. After all the debate inside the
:06:36. > :06:43.council chamber, the tough and contentious decisions have now been
:06:43. > :06:48.made. Cardiff has signed off its budget, just as all of our councils
:06:48. > :06:52.will have to do over the next few weeks. This year, cross wireless
:06:52. > :07:02.services and jobs are under threat but in future many are asking
:07:02. > :07:08.whether it should be the councils facing the final cut. -- across
:07:08. > :07:12.Wales. With me is a councillor for manager, Peter Fox. You are one of
:07:12. > :07:16.two councils telling people they do not need to pay more council tax in
:07:17. > :07:20.this coming year. Why have you said that? We have made a commitment
:07:20. > :07:23.that we would keep council tax to the minimum over the last two years,
:07:24. > :07:27.and we are honouring that. We believe it is so difficult for
:07:27. > :07:31.everybody in the community at the moment and it is important to play
:07:31. > :07:37.our part in helping people through a difficult time. We cannot keep
:07:37. > :07:42.his decision up for much longer but it was important for us. What
:07:42. > :07:47.things will people be losing in terms of services? Or suffering, in
:07:47. > :07:51.your opinion? You have seen the audit, so where will people see a
:07:51. > :07:55.different? People might struggle to believe that they will not see a
:07:55. > :07:57.great deal of difference in service provision. We are having to put
:07:57. > :08:02.charging in for certain things that may not have been charged for
:08:02. > :08:07.before. A examples? Charging for green waste collection, for
:08:07. > :08:13.instance. We currently pick that up for free each week. We are thinking
:08:13. > :08:18.of putting a small charge per bag of green waste, if you like, to
:08:18. > :08:27.help maintain that service for the future. Other examples? We are
:08:27. > :08:33.having to charge for pest control, which raises about �45,000 towards
:08:33. > :08:38.a �4.5 million deficit this year. Do you think those are small items?
:08:38. > :08:42.They seem to be. Potential car-park charge increases, which we have
:08:42. > :08:46.withdrawn from. Those are the things that have stimulated the
:08:46. > :08:50.most debate and controversy in the community. When you look at the
:08:51. > :08:55.quality of services, what do you say to someone who looks at your
:08:55. > :08:59.county and says, actually, the education service is not too hot at
:08:59. > :09:03.the moment, is that an area where you are trying to save money with
:09:03. > :09:07.children losing out? I can see that being raised at the moment, but I
:09:07. > :09:12.can reassure everybody that we have invested heavily in education as a
:09:12. > :09:16.key priority for Monmouthshire. We have some issues of improvement. We
:09:16. > :09:20.have not got the answer for everything and we know that, but we
:09:20. > :09:24.recognise there are ways to do things differently. All authorities
:09:24. > :09:31.will have to do things differently in difficult times. We saw swimming
:09:31. > :09:34.pools in Cardiff them, a riding school for disabled people, and
:09:34. > :09:38.those things are so politically sensitive. Are you saying that in
:09:38. > :09:47.the future in York County you are going to have to look at items of
:09:47. > :09:51.that kind of value and the sensitivity? -- in your county?
:09:51. > :09:56.are going to have to look at all of those services and perhaps persuade
:09:56. > :10:00.people to deliver them for us. We also have financial statutory
:10:00. > :10:04.services. You recognise that the elderly population is growing, your
:10:04. > :10:08.social care bill is getting bigger, so if you are getting less money
:10:08. > :10:12.and you still have to invest in priority areas, what you have got
:10:12. > :10:19.left have to go much further. you plunder your reserves. Are you
:10:19. > :10:24.doing that? No. We are using reserves in a prudent weight, to
:10:24. > :10:31.use money to help us invest in different ways of doing things.
:10:31. > :10:36.What are we talking about? �775,000 of reserves to invest in ideas to
:10:36. > :10:41.try and close the gap. It is a lot of money. It is. The reality is
:10:41. > :10:45.that if we do not invest in the future, these things will not magic
:10:45. > :10:51.their way forward. It would be very easy for us to use reserves and
:10:51. > :10:54.just block gaps, but council tax up, but if we want to provide
:10:54. > :10:59.sustainable services and the long term, we need to rebuild local
:10:59. > :11:03.Government, if you like, redefine it and do things in a different way.
:11:03. > :11:07.That is the agenda we are on. of the spending cuts that the
:11:07. > :11:12.Westminster Government has put into the system have not been felt yet.
:11:12. > :11:16.They have not been delivered yet. If we look ahead, not just next
:11:16. > :11:22.year, maybe four years down the line, how concerned are you about
:11:22. > :11:29.the sustainability of services? am very concerned. The areas that
:11:29. > :11:33.may not have the statutory element will take a bigger hit. Such as?
:11:33. > :11:37.Well, those sorts of things that people value like leisure,
:11:37. > :11:40.libraries, culture. Those things that add value to people's lives,
:11:40. > :11:48.sadly if there is less money, they have to be delivered in a different
:11:48. > :11:52.way. I am not planning cuts to those things in Monmouthshire, but
:11:52. > :11:58.we have to look closely at how we can do things and preserve the bid
:11:58. > :12:05.offer. But things will have to change, and that is a fat. -- a
:12:05. > :12:08.fact. Becky. We could hear sighs of relief from
:12:08. > :12:14.Lib Dem headquarters this week as the by-election in Eastleigh was
:12:14. > :12:18.won by Nick Clegg's party. overcame the odds and won a
:12:18. > :12:22.stunning victory. That victory was achieved, despite one of the most
:12:22. > :12:25.turbulent weeks in the party's history. Nick Clegg himself was
:12:25. > :12:32.under fire for the handling of the controversy surrounding Lord
:12:32. > :12:35.Rennard, the former chief executive of the party, who has been accused
:12:35. > :12:39.of inappropriate sexual conduct, which he has denied. The question
:12:39. > :12:43.of what Nick Clegg may or may not have known is under debate, and the
:12:43. > :12:47.party faces its own challenges in terms of cuts and welfare benefits
:12:47. > :12:53.being imposed by the coalition in Westminster, with Lib Dem support
:12:53. > :12:57.of course. How does that affect the party's standing with Welsh voters?
:12:57. > :13:01.Joining is Kirsty Williams. Thank you for coming in. You have broken
:13:01. > :13:11.all the rules of by-elections, haven't you? A party with a
:13:11. > :13:26.
:13:26. > :13:33.turbulent run-up to a by-election We were able to demonstrate that
:13:33. > :13:38.our candidate was the best person. I could not say anything better. It
:13:38. > :13:43.was a stunning victory against all the odds. The first time a party in
:13:43. > :13:51.Government have been able to hold on to a marginal seat in a by-
:13:51. > :13:56.election for 30 years. I am not taking anything away. UKIP did well
:13:56. > :14:02.to come second. They clearly help due by taking walks away from the
:14:02. > :14:07.Conservatives. The performance of UKIP is one of all parties will
:14:07. > :14:12.have to reflect on. We have to be careful about making assumptions of
:14:12. > :14:16.what will happen at a General Election. Undoubtedly the
:14:16. > :14:21.Conservatives do have a problem with UKIP. All parties need to
:14:21. > :14:28.respond to some of the messages, people coming out of the Poles were
:14:28. > :14:38.explaining why they voted macro that way. They wanted to spend a
:14:38. > :14:38.
:14:38. > :14:43.message to all the main parties. Welfare changes, the bedroom tax, I
:14:43. > :14:49.am just wondering if I was a Welsh Water asking what you wanted to do
:14:49. > :14:57.about these things, would you say you were in favour of bedroom tax
:14:57. > :15:01.on against it? The changes the Westminster Government are bringing
:15:01. > :15:08.in is exactly the same system that the red Jubilee -- already works in
:15:08. > :15:13.the private sector. We are changing its salt that deep social public
:15:13. > :15:19.sector is the same. Undoubtedly there are some difficult cases. I
:15:19. > :15:23.acknowledge that, I see it in my own postbag. That is why the
:15:23. > :15:30.Government have increased the amount of money going to local
:15:30. > :15:34.councils so they can respond to local needs. We need to make sure
:15:34. > :15:39.the additional money that is coming to Welsh councils to help
:15:39. > :15:44.individuals who for whatever reason cannot move or need to stay in the
:15:44. > :15:49.properties they stay in, they are given assistance. We need to review
:15:49. > :15:55.that to make sure that money is the right amount of money. If you
:15:55. > :16:00.listen to some of the debates they will say it is not just a case of a
:16:00. > :16:05.few people been adversely affected, it is more than that. What is the
:16:05. > :16:11.kind of impression you are going to create if you go around campaigning
:16:11. > :16:16.seeing broadly you think it is OK? We need to make sure the mitigating
:16:16. > :16:22.money that has been sent to local authorities is the right amount. We
:16:22. > :16:25.will have a timely tribute to reflect on that. We need to be
:16:26. > :16:31.clear what the Westminster Government is doing for the people
:16:31. > :16:38.of Wales. Tens of thousands of people in Wales will be paying no
:16:38. > :16:43.income tax whatsoever from this April. We are helping hard-pressed,
:16:43. > :16:49.hard working families in the lowest paid jobs, taking them out of
:16:49. > :16:54.income tax altogether. There is a balance to be struck. We need to
:16:54. > :17:01.make sure we create a strong economy and build a fairer society.
:17:01. > :17:07.That is what we are using our influence to do at Westminster.
:17:07. > :17:12.will see the measures coming up in the Budget in a couple of weeks.
:17:13. > :17:20.You try in Wales to set out your own style as a party who have its
:17:20. > :17:25.own specific discrete identity of its own. At Westminster there are
:17:25. > :17:29.hard-hitting reforms, how do you in Wales got out campaigning seeing
:17:29. > :17:38.actually we're still part of that routine. Away embracing those
:17:38. > :17:43.reforms? How do you handle it? I do is be true to the principles
:17:43. > :17:48.of Welsh Liberal Democrats. If there are things in London being
:17:48. > :17:53.done that I do not agree with I am not scared to stand up and say I
:17:53. > :17:56.think they are doing it wrong. some of the most controversial
:17:56. > :18:02.things we have discussed today you said you are perfectly happy with
:18:02. > :18:12.them. We have seen Tory members of the Government wanting to reduce
:18:12. > :18:14.
:18:14. > :18:16.regional p, something I have felt very strongly about the opposing.
:18:16. > :18:25.Because the Liberal Democrats are part of a coalition Government we
:18:25. > :18:29.have been able to stop that. I am not afraid to stand up and so say
:18:29. > :18:37.when my colleagues are wrong. I am not afraid to use the influence I
:18:37. > :18:41.have to try to change policy. about the new universal benefit?
:18:41. > :18:46.think trying to create a system that does not trap people in
:18:46. > :18:51.poverty but allows them the chance to move out of the system into the
:18:51. > :18:57.world of work is the right thing to do. For too long we have had
:18:57. > :19:03.generations of people trapped on benefits. We need to create a
:19:03. > :19:07.strong economy so there are jobs for these people to go to. That is
:19:07. > :19:13.what we need to do and what I and my colleagues at Westminster are
:19:13. > :19:21.committed to doing. Thank you for coming in. A quick question, how
:19:21. > :19:27.many of you are members of a trade union? Some 80% of Welsh workers
:19:27. > :19:32.were union members in the heyday of heavy industry. Something
:19:32. > :19:37.interesting happened last year Bucking the UK Wight trend, union
:19:37. > :19:45.membership in Will increased, more specifically it increased among
:19:45. > :19:55.women. What is trade-union activity in the modern Welsh economy? It is
:19:55. > :19:57.
:19:57. > :20:03.30 years since the miners' strike. Our reporter has more. Mrs Thatcher
:20:03. > :20:11.was incredibly lucky with her enemies. Arthur Scargill was an
:20:11. > :20:21.incompetent General. We are not going to intervene in the coal
:20:21. > :20:22.
:20:22. > :20:29.dispute. I for Tom Bahah for the National Union, I call on every
:20:29. > :20:38.single working miner to stop work doing this dispute. This
:20:38. > :20:41.documentary I made for BBC Wales in 2004 was to mark the 20th
:20:41. > :20:45.anniversary of the year-long miners' strike which transformed
:20:45. > :20:50.the industrial and political landscape of Britain. The
:20:50. > :20:55.consequences of what I then described as as civil war continued
:20:55. > :21:00.to reverberate in the wider trade union movement today, 30 years
:21:01. > :21:06.after that titanic struggle. The question is, did the trade union
:21:06. > :21:12.movement in Wales decline in parallel with the miners' union and
:21:12. > :21:17.become something of a museum piece itself? In an attempt to answer
:21:17. > :21:23.that question we brought together two men from opposite ends of the
:21:23. > :21:30.political spectrum to reflect on what has been and assess the place
:21:31. > :21:37.of trade unionism in today's wheels. Rod Richards, a former right-wing
:21:38. > :21:45.MP supported Margaret Thatcher, a controversial figure who fell out
:21:45. > :21:48.with his own party, a political rottweiler. Kim Howells, once the
:21:48. > :21:54.darling of the left, a former Labour MP and Government minister,
:21:54. > :22:04.he was the research officer with the miners' union in Wales at the
:22:04. > :22:14.time of the strike. He is not averse to speaking his mind. It was
:22:14. > :22:14.
:22:14. > :22:22.not long before Auld rivalries surfaced once again. It was a one-
:22:22. > :22:27.party State. I am usually the one who gets told off! Typical argy-
:22:27. > :22:32.bargy from two veterans but then something surprising happened when
:22:32. > :22:38.the conversation turned to considering the current place of
:22:38. > :22:43.Unionism. You could hardly put a cigarette paper between them as
:22:43. > :22:48.consensus broke out in the valleys. The car industry has been
:22:48. > :22:54.transformed because there is a degree of co-operation that looks
:22:54. > :22:59.first at innovating, creating better products. It is predicated
:23:00. > :23:07.on corporation. The at his right. Without trade unions I fear there
:23:07. > :23:12.will be a mentality that assumes it is all right to exploit. I believe
:23:13. > :23:18.that trade unions are necessary. I would agree that there are some
:23:18. > :23:22.employers who are very bad. Unless you have the Trades Union they can
:23:22. > :23:28.face up to these people in terms of giving the right advice and going
:23:28. > :23:33.to court, then people would be disadvantaged. I would not want to
:23:33. > :23:37.see a society like that. However, when you have people like Bob Crow
:23:37. > :23:42.who want to renationalise the railways, I certainly would not
:23:42. > :23:47.want to see that. It is enough to make your head reel, trying to
:23:47. > :23:52.reconcile the thought that two former political enemies have not -
:23:52. > :24:00.- have suddenly found common political ground and become
:24:00. > :24:05.political comrades. So, what is the future for the trades union
:24:05. > :24:10.movement in Wales? The headquarters of the TUC is still here in Cardiff
:24:10. > :24:15.but these days the represent a very different face to the world. Given
:24:16. > :24:20.the devastating effects of the miners' strike it is perhaps
:24:20. > :24:25.surprising to learn that the membership of unions in Wales is
:24:25. > :24:30.actually on the up compared to other places in the UK. The
:24:30. > :24:35.increase in membership is due in part to the prominence of the
:24:35. > :24:42.public sector in Wales, it is also attributable to a residual
:24:42. > :24:47.collective loyalty to our industrial past. Two policy
:24:47. > :24:54.officers at the Wales d u c bear witness to our past influencing our
:24:54. > :25:00.future. They are both from families with mining backgrounds and
:25:00. > :25:05.committed to their roles in promoting trade unionism in Wales.
:25:05. > :25:09.I think people are looking for I think people are looking for
:25:09. > :25:17.protection against another UK Government that is deciding to turn
:25:17. > :25:25.the screw on public sector workers. And low-paid private sector workers.
:25:25. > :25:31.Is that how you see it? Absolutely. Union membership among female
:25:31. > :25:37.employees in the Welsh workforce is higher than that for meals for the
:25:37. > :25:47.10th successive year. In a perverse way the miners' strike has in part
:25:47. > :25:56.been responsible for the empowerment of the Welsh man. --
:25:56. > :26:01.for males. My mother is an incredible Welsh women. She is a
:26:01. > :26:08.fantastic mother as well as a fantastic colleague and work made.
:26:08. > :26:13.She does a fantastic role in the community. It is empowering to see.
:26:13. > :26:18.The pets have gone. The once powerful miners' union is no more
:26:18. > :26:24.and the role of the trades union movement has changed in a way that
:26:24. > :26:31.even old political adversities can find common ground to agree on. For
:26:31. > :26:37.the future that is, as to the past, that is another story. Some things
:26:37. > :26:42.just do not change. My greatest frustration was the idea that
:26:42. > :26:52.trades unionists should see themselves as having this close
:26:52. > :26:52.
:26:52. > :26:58.symbiotic relationship with Government ministers. The debate
:26:58. > :27:03.continues. That was David Williams and joining me in the studio is the
:27:04. > :27:11.head of the PC s Union in Wales. There is a big debate about the
:27:11. > :27:15.State of the unions in Wales, do you think it is healthy or not?
:27:15. > :27:19.have 66% in the public sector but over 20% in the private sector
:27:19. > :27:25.which is massively different thing comparison to other parts of the
:27:25. > :27:32.country. Why do you think people in Wales are more keen to be members,
:27:32. > :27:36.or feel they should be members of? I think we have a strong tradition
:27:36. > :27:46.of trades unions in Wales and in the community. That is something
:27:46. > :27:52.that has continued since we had big industry here. Are you confident of
:27:52. > :27:57.the increasing number in Wales, that it is going to carry on or is
:27:57. > :28:05.it just a blip, some kind of odd circumstances that have bucked the
:28:05. > :28:11.trend? I would say that for the last five years we have done a bit
:28:11. > :28:16.of research into this area. Every single time that the union I work
:28:16. > :28:20.for and the membership I represent, actually increases every time there
:28:20. > :28:26.is the industrial action. Membership does not decrease.
:28:26. > :28:34.Bartok that is that at this moment in time people are feeling the bite.
:28:34. > :28:39.People have faced pay freezes for a number of years while basic things
:28:39. > :28:48.like gas and electricity are going up. Also the wider thing in terms
:28:48. > :28:53.of their families not having access to things and unions. Given who you
:28:53. > :28:58.are, your profile, you are a young woman, your background, what would
:28:58. > :29:03.you say to young women in your position where union membership is
:29:03. > :29:09.concerned? For many I imagine it is not a concept they would even have
:29:09. > :29:15.considered. The numbers speak for themselves. There are a good
:29:15. > :29:21.proportion of women in Wales we are in and out union. In the public
:29:21. > :29:26.sector it tends to be higher among women than men. Our membership
:29:26. > :29:30.among young people has increased an hour activity in the workplace has
:29:31. > :29:35.done so. It is important for unions to be reflective of their
:29:35. > :29:41.membership. It is important we do not just go down the traditional
:29:41. > :29:46.white male sort of line, that we are genuinely reflective of our
:29:46. > :29:53.overall membership as well which is extremely diverse. Thank you for