:00:08. > :00:11.She had on Remembrance weekend, The Wales Report is in London. We will
:00:11. > :00:15.be talking to one soldier who bears the heavy burden of liaising with
:00:15. > :00:18.the families of those on the frontline her. And after a new
:00:18. > :00:22.storm of controversy about the abuse allegations in North Wales,
:00:22. > :00:32.we will be asking what more can be done to uncover the truth. Stay
:00:32. > :00:36.
:00:36. > :00:39.Welcome to London for this week's edition of The Wales Report. It is
:00:39. > :00:43.Remembrance Sunday. Dozens of people have gathered at the
:00:43. > :00:47.Cenotaph on Whitehall for services drought Wales and the UK to
:00:47. > :00:51.remember those lost in two world wars and other conflicts. We will
:00:51. > :00:54.talk to one soldier with a particular duty when it comes to
:00:54. > :00:58.liaising with forces' families. But the week's headlines have been
:00:58. > :01:04.dominated by a new wave of controversy about abuse in care
:01:04. > :01:10.homes in North Wales in the 1970s and 1980s. Two new inquiries have
:01:10. > :01:14.been set up amid concerns that the full truth has yet to emerge. David
:01:14. > :01:18.Williams, who reported on the scandal in the 1980s, has been
:01:18. > :01:22.revisiting the events. They after day, month after month,
:01:22. > :01:28.dozens of young people came here to give evidence of what the Home
:01:28. > :01:31.Secretary last week called hate for, disgusting, a bore and crimes. If
:01:31. > :01:36.some of those young people were listening to that statement, they
:01:36. > :01:41.might be forgiven for thinking, but we told you so. Went you listening?
:01:41. > :01:45.I knew many of those young people. I brought some of them here. It is
:01:46. > :01:51.just an office block now, but at the time, it was the setting for
:01:51. > :01:55.one of the biggest inquiries into child abuse. I watched as some of
:01:55. > :02:00.the people who gave evidence here crumpled and broke down in the
:02:00. > :02:03.witness box as they attempted to tell their awful stories of
:02:03. > :02:10.physical and sexual abuse at the hands of those who was supposed to
:02:10. > :02:17.be caring for them. Now, those same witnesses here that there are to be
:02:17. > :02:23.more inquiries, an inquiry into the inquiry led by Sir Ronald
:02:23. > :02:29.Waterhouse in 1996, and which sat here for 203 days and produced, at
:02:29. > :02:38.a cost of �14 million, the lost in care report, a report which some
:02:38. > :02:44.now say got a bit lost itself and did not go far enough. There is
:02:44. > :02:48.also to be another inquiry about an inquiry, this time a police inquiry
:02:48. > :02:52.about the original police inquiry into child abuse in North Wales.
:02:52. > :02:57.But there are those, myself included, who wonder whether the
:02:57. > :03:02.police inquiries went far enough and whether they pursued every line
:03:02. > :03:09.of inquiry open to them. That would certainly be the view of bears
:03:09. > :03:14.frost, who I first met in 1997. He had been the deputy chief executive
:03:14. > :03:20.of the privately owned Brunel in community homes in North Wales. The
:03:20. > :03:25.man who ran the homes, John Allen, was jailed in 1995 for six years
:03:25. > :03:31.for abusing residents. Ten years before his boss was convicted of
:03:31. > :03:37.those offences, there's frost had gone to the Chester police with
:03:37. > :03:40.allegations about six residents had been sexually abused by John Allen.
:03:40. > :03:45.He did not go to the Wrexham Police in whose area the homes were
:03:45. > :03:52.operating. But he believed that Chester police would pass on his
:03:52. > :03:56.concerns to their colleagues in North Wales. Naively, I thought
:03:56. > :04:02.that the wheels were in motion and a long way, something would be done,
:04:02. > :04:07.even if they didn't contact me. They would interview John Allen.
:04:07. > :04:14.These were serious allegations of sexual abuse not by one, but by six
:04:14. > :04:19.residents. Indeed. The thing that surprised me when I began to
:04:19. > :04:24.realise nothing was being done was that this was not just a grassroots
:04:24. > :04:30.worker talking to two policemen, it was the joint deputy chief
:04:30. > :04:34.executive. I would have expected them, even if it was not on their
:04:34. > :04:39.patch, to at least realise it must be serious if someone of that
:04:39. > :04:43.position had taken the trouble to speak to them. 15 years ago, bears
:04:43. > :04:48.frost made those same points in an interview with me. We wanted to
:04:48. > :04:53.show that interview in a television programme, because we considered
:04:53. > :04:57.that what he had to say was important evidence for the tribunal.
:04:57. > :05:01.But the tribunal told us that they were concerned that there should be
:05:01. > :05:05.no discussion of events while they were sitting. Indeed, they
:05:05. > :05:10.threatened us with contempt proceedings if we showed that
:05:10. > :05:15.interview. In the circumstances, we had no choice. We did not show the
:05:15. > :05:21.interview. The tribunal knew that bears frost had information
:05:21. > :05:26.relevant to its inquiry. But it did not call him as a witness. The
:05:26. > :05:30.Waterhouse report concluded that there was no significant a mission
:05:30. > :05:39.by North Wales Police in investigating the complaints of
:05:39. > :05:42.abuse to children in care. It is now difficult to convey adequately
:05:42. > :05:49.the emotional turmoil that young people who came here went through
:05:49. > :05:53.as they tried to relive their past and to do so publicly. For some,
:05:53. > :05:58.the inquiry came too late. I once carried the coffin of a young man
:05:59. > :06:08.who had told me and others his story, but in the end, believed
:06:09. > :06:09.
:06:09. > :06:15.that nobody believed him. He hanged himself. Some simply cannot let the
:06:15. > :06:20.matter go. People like Steven Messham, a victim of abuse at 0
:06:20. > :06:25.wears care homes, who has now apologised for making inaccurate
:06:25. > :06:30.claims to a BBC Newsnight programme about a former leading Tory
:06:30. > :06:36.politician. The BBC has issued an unreserved apology for the
:06:36. > :06:41.Newsnight report, which led to former Conservative Party treasurer
:06:41. > :06:44.Lord McAlpine of -- Lord McAlpine being wrongly implicated in online
:06:44. > :06:49.forums in relation to the sexual abuse of boys in care homes in
:06:49. > :06:54.North Wales. The extraordinary events of the last week caused
:06:54. > :06:59.something of a media feeding frenzy, as journalists scrambled to try and
:06:59. > :07:04.keep up with an ever-changing story. Then, late last night, came the
:07:04. > :07:10.dramatic climax to the week, when George Entwistle, the director
:07:10. > :07:14.general of the BBC, flanked by the corporation's chairman, Lord Patten,
:07:14. > :07:19.emerged from BBC headquarters. have decided that the honourable
:07:19. > :07:23.thing to do is to step down from the post of director general.
:07:23. > :07:28.Alison Taylor, the whistle blower widely regarded as the person who
:07:28. > :07:32.set in motion the investigations into child abuse in North Wales,
:07:32. > :07:37.has been taken aback by the sudden resurgence of interest in a subject
:07:37. > :07:43.in which she is well First. She first told me her story in a
:07:43. > :07:51.television documentary I did more than 20 years ago. It centred on
:07:51. > :07:54.the physical abuse carried out in a care home in Bangor, which once
:07:54. > :07:58.stood here work but was later bulldozed to the ground to make way
:07:58. > :08:02.for a housing complex. The home has gone, but the memory of the pain
:08:02. > :08:08.and suffering endured by children here has not been forgotten. What
:08:08. > :08:12.do you feel now, coming back 23 years after we did that first
:08:12. > :08:17.programme? It is houses now and the building has gone, but is the
:08:17. > :08:22.memory still with you? Yes, because you can erase buildings, but you
:08:22. > :08:27.can't erase memories. It is not just me, but my whole family,
:08:27. > :08:32.because my children's lives were very much taken up with what was
:08:32. > :08:36.going on, especially after I contacted the police and council
:08:36. > :08:41.about the abuse allegations. Events here are still vivid in the mind of
:08:41. > :08:46.Alison Taylor, who once worked as the deputy head of a care home
:08:46. > :08:53.which did everything except provide care. If it was not just abuse, it
:08:53. > :08:56.was neglect and such mean us that you would not credit. Like children
:08:56. > :09:06.having to line-up to have a little squirt of toothpaste on their
:09:06. > :09:08.
:09:08. > :09:13.toothbrush every night. I felt as a woman that the girls had to ask for
:09:13. > :09:17.cemetery pounds each time they needed a new one. -- they had to
:09:17. > :09:21.ask for sanitary pads. That is humiliation. In the last week,
:09:21. > :09:25.Alison Taylor has been pursued relentlessly by journalists trying
:09:25. > :09:29.desperately to keep up with the story. All very different to the
:09:29. > :09:35.time when she first tried to tell her story of abuse in care homes in
:09:35. > :09:41.a Quinn up. The response was, shoot the messenger. Buried the messenger
:09:41. > :09:48.very deep in concrete at. Well, you have done a good job of surviving
:09:48. > :09:55.the concrete, but it took a long time. And that period included a
:09:55. > :09:58.police inquiry. Which came to nothing initially. No, because we
:09:58. > :10:05.know from the reports which were quoted in the tribunal report that
:10:05. > :10:10.the police regarded the youngsters who were making the allegations
:10:11. > :10:15.with the utmost prejudice. It was hoped that a chapter of terrible
:10:15. > :10:21.stories of abuse at care homes like Bryn Estyn, near Wrexham, had come
:10:21. > :10:25.to an end. The fear now is that the events of the last 48 hours could
:10:25. > :10:29.make the continuing search for the truth of child abuse in North Wales
:10:29. > :10:34.even more difficult and could even prevent victims of abuse who have
:10:34. > :10:40.not yet told their story from coming forward to give evidence to
:10:40. > :10:46.any new inquiry. For me, coming back here all these years after the
:10:46. > :10:52.last big inquiry into child abuse in North Wales, I am struck by a
:10:52. > :10:57.feeling of sadness and certainly concerned that it is not over yet.
:10:57. > :11:02.There could be fresh allegations and matters to be put right. And if
:11:02. > :11:07.there are, this time we had better all be prepared to listen. We
:11:07. > :11:13.mustn't let down these victims again.
:11:13. > :11:16.That was David Williams. With me is the Secretary of State for Wales.
:11:16. > :11:23.There is a real sense of a firestorm this weekend, certainly
:11:23. > :11:29.angle from the BBC, which I will come to. Are we in danger of losing
:11:29. > :11:35.sight of the victims here, those who have suffered terrible abuse?
:11:35. > :11:39.We should remember that that is what all this is about. There have
:11:39. > :11:44.been concerns in North Wales for many years about whether the
:11:44. > :11:48.Waterhouse inquiry was sufficiently in depth. But the processes we have
:11:48. > :11:51.put in place over the last we should address concerns about that.
:11:51. > :11:55.We have appointed Keith Bristow, the head of the National crime
:11:55. > :11:59.agency, to work with North Wales Police in reviewing not only
:11:59. > :12:06.historical complaints, but also fresh complaints that are emerging
:12:06. > :12:10.now. The other part of the process is about reappointed a High Court
:12:10. > :12:16.judge to conduct a review of the process of the Waterhouse inquiry
:12:16. > :12:21.itself. This will take some time. But I would hope that those two
:12:21. > :12:25.processes will give some assurance to the public of North Wales that
:12:25. > :12:28.we are continuing to take these issues very seriously. You do
:12:28. > :12:33.wonder if there are people out there who are victims who have not
:12:33. > :12:37.spoken out yet. They may see this media storm happening. What would
:12:37. > :12:41.be the incentive for them to come forward and have their say, because
:12:41. > :12:45.it seems a dangerous area to be in? This is the problem when dealing
:12:45. > :12:49.with issues of child abuse, particularly historical child abuse,
:12:49. > :12:53.because these people have moved on with their lives, and to renew the
:12:53. > :12:59.pain they felt all those years ago is quite an undertaking. We would
:12:59. > :13:03.like them to come forward nonetheless. We can assure the
:13:03. > :13:08.individuals who may want to report those incidents that they will be
:13:08. > :13:12.treated very sympathetically by a very experienced investigators. By
:13:13. > :13:16.all means, consider whether you want to come forward, but if you do,
:13:16. > :13:23.come forward in the knowledge that you will be treated with great
:13:23. > :13:27.concern. There is a view, of course, that we will have inquiries into
:13:27. > :13:32.all inquiries. But you are saying it is much wider? It is a wide
:13:32. > :13:36.remit. You have a very experienced criminal investigator or in the
:13:36. > :13:40.form of Keith Bristow, who has been given a remit not just to look at
:13:40. > :13:44.old allegations, but any new allegations that come forward. Each
:13:44. > :13:50.of those is an allegation of criminal behaviour. It is possible
:13:50. > :13:54.that it should be dealt with by the police. It is being overseen by the
:13:54. > :13:58.National crime agency to give people extra comfort. We are taking
:13:58. > :14:04.it very seriously, but it is by no means just a historical review of
:14:04. > :14:10.what happened 20 years ago. know the area very well. Was it
:14:10. > :14:16.your feeling at the time that the Waterhouse inquiry was too narrow?
:14:16. > :14:21.I did not have that feeling them, but of course, this is one of the
:14:21. > :14:26.issues that the Chief of justice has been asked to do that. She will
:14:26. > :14:33.make up her mind. Do you have a view on it? I am not in a position
:14:33. > :14:40.to express a view of, because the Chief of justice will be reporting
:14:41. > :14:45.to me. It would be wrong for me to express a personal view. But she
:14:45. > :14:50.will be looking at this in detail, and she will look at the workings
:14:50. > :14:56.of the inquiry. That is a major undertaking, because it was a very
:14:56. > :15:00.long inquiry that lasted three years before it reported. He so she
:15:00. > :15:04.certainly has a job to do, but I am sure she will do it well. If you go
:15:04. > :15:09.back to the early '90s, there was a report compiled at that time which
:15:09. > :15:13.was not published for lots of reasons. Apparently, because of
:15:13. > :15:18.some legal concerns. Do you think parts of that report should be made
:15:18. > :15:24.available now? That is a report I have not seen. I have no idea what
:15:24. > :15:29.was in it. I understand most of the contents of the report, most of the
:15:29. > :15:34.copies were shredded. It was prepared for the North Wales
:15:34. > :15:37.council itself. There may be a copy in existence under the control of
:15:37. > :15:41.Flintshire County Council. They will have to take legal advice as
:15:41. > :15:46.to whether it would be in their interest to publish it. But the big
:15:46. > :15:49.problem was that the report was conducted under conditions other
:15:49. > :15:59.than conditions of privilege. The concern was a bit if it were
:15:59. > :16:00.
:16:00. > :16:04.published, it might be regarded as One of the consequences is the
:16:04. > :16:08.resignation of the BBC's Director- General, in what is clearly a
:16:08. > :16:13.crisis for the corporation. Do you think he made the right decision?
:16:13. > :16:16.think he had no alternative, frankly. What we have in the BBC is
:16:16. > :16:20.easily the biggest news organisations in the country. It is
:16:20. > :16:25.in the world. It is essential that the public should have confidence
:16:25. > :16:31.in the BBC and that it is an organisation that can be relied on.
:16:31. > :16:35.I think the Newsnight report was a very shoddy piece of journalism. I
:16:35. > :16:41.am speaking as a lawyer and I know that I would check my facts about
:16:41. > :16:46.simple things such as identity. I think that the good news of
:16:46. > :16:50.Newsnight was badly damaged by that report. I think that George
:16:50. > :16:54.Entwistle had no option but to do what he did. Really, it does seem
:16:55. > :16:59.to me that there may be other organisation issues within the BBC
:16:59. > :17:03.that need to be addressed urgently. Such as? Well, it is quite clear
:17:03. > :17:08.that there must have been or there should have been a process of
:17:08. > :17:12.reporting to the Director-General if there were a programme, such as
:17:13. > :17:15.the Newsnight, that was apparently, at one stage, going to name a
:17:16. > :17:22.senior Conservative politician. Clearly there was no such
:17:23. > :17:26.arrangement in place. I think that there must be organisational issues
:17:26. > :17:29.below Director-General level that need to be addressed. It is fair to
:17:29. > :17:33.say because of the Savile inquiries, the BBC management structure has
:17:33. > :17:40.been, let's just say heavily affected by that. Well, I have no
:17:40. > :17:43.doubt that is the case. If you have got a news item of the proportions,
:17:43. > :17:49.of the magnitude of the Newsnight report, there should have been
:17:49. > :17:53.arrangements in place to draw this issue to the attention of the
:17:53. > :17:57.Director-General. I am astonished they were not in place and the
:17:57. > :18:03.shoddyness of the journalism makes it all the more the necessary for
:18:03. > :18:05.that to be in place. How soon does the BBC node to appoint a new
:18:05. > :18:10.Director-General? It needs to review structures completely. What
:18:10. > :18:14.we need is somebody at the helm of this organisation, which is an
:18:14. > :18:19.important British institution after all, who is capable of inspiring
:18:19. > :18:23.the confidence, not marely of the staff of the BBC, but also -- not
:18:23. > :18:29.merely of the staff of the BBC, but also the audience of the BBC, who I
:18:29. > :18:33.have no doubt feel badly let down by this episode. It has been a week
:18:33. > :18:38.of contrasting news headlines, including vivid ones in Washington
:18:38. > :18:42.for the presidential election. One common theme - the use of social
:18:42. > :18:52.media, which is transforming the way we gather news and transforming
:18:52. > :18:56.
:18:56. > :19:03.In Westminster and here in the Assembly the week has been
:19:03. > :19:06.dominated by allegations of child abuse. If there is something which
:19:06. > :19:16.has changed since the Waterhouse inquiry, that is social media.
:19:16. > :19:20.Names have been Tweeted and ancient liable laws are having trouble
:19:20. > :19:26.catching up. Politicians who use Twitter are finding some dark and
:19:26. > :19:30.disturbing elements to confront N another part of this complex world,
:19:30. > :19:36.there was more controversy here when Leanne Wood suggested victims
:19:36. > :19:40.of abuse could get in touch with her via social media. The First
:19:40. > :19:43.Minister was not a fan of that idea. I do not think it is appropriate
:19:43. > :19:46.that people should be encouraged to get in touch with politicians. I
:19:46. > :19:50.think it is important that they should be asked to get in touch
:19:50. > :19:54.with authorities who can do things for them and properly investigate
:19:54. > :19:58.their complaints. I would urge them to do that. She was Sangin about
:19:58. > :20:02.that attack saying the victims would be suspicious of talking to
:20:02. > :20:06.the police, why not give them another opportunity to raise their
:20:06. > :20:11.voice. Either way, social media is clearly changing the rules. You
:20:11. > :20:15.have been getting in touch with us over the past week on different
:20:15. > :20:21.issues. The most persistent concern is around the health service in
:20:21. > :20:27.Wales. A retired consultant has been in touch on what he says are
:20:27. > :20:31.declining standards in accident and emergency care. I would rather die
:20:31. > :20:36.at home than die at the hospital. That is the way I look at it. I
:20:36. > :20:40.have come to that state because I have lost a lot of confidence. Are
:20:40. > :20:46.a lot of very good doctors in the health service, a lot of very good
:20:46. > :20:53.nurses, they are doing their work. Somehow this is all controlled by...
:20:53. > :20:57.It has become a political hot potato. Labour blame the
:20:57. > :21:01.Conservatives - it should be completely out of the political
:21:01. > :21:09.area. And, in the world of Twitter, it
:21:09. > :21:14.was a week of records as I am sure Huw will testify the US elections
:21:14. > :21:21.were a phenomenon. Barack Obama announced his success on Twitter.
:21:21. > :21:27.This message from the President looks like the most reTweeted in
:21:27. > :21:31.history. Within a few hours 500,000 people had re-sent it. Welsh
:21:31. > :21:36.politicians are not in the same league, any more than Welsh
:21:36. > :21:45.journalists there. Top of the league of Tweeters David
:21:45. > :21:50.Jones, MP. And this week's guest, well he is a Tweet-refusenic. If
:21:50. > :21:56.you cannot join them... Tell us what we should look at. Tell us
:21:56. > :22:06.what concerns you. You can find us via e-mail.
:22:06. > :22:08.
:22:08. > :22:12.Next week we'll have more reaction. Earlier today thousands of veterans
:22:12. > :22:20.marched along Whitehall after a service of remembrance led by the
:22:20. > :22:23.Queen. There were political leaders there including the leader of Plaid
:22:23. > :22:29.Cymru. He has been leading a campaign to improve the lot of
:22:29. > :22:33.military veterans. We will hear from him shortly. We have spoke on
:22:33. > :22:41.the an officer in the Welsh Guards about his job of liaising the
:22:41. > :22:50.families of those on the front line. For Captain Brian Moore that can
:22:50. > :22:55.involve delivering the worst No matter how you prepare yourself
:22:55. > :22:59.it is always a shock because you are delivering some brutal and
:22:59. > :23:04.unsavoury news to a family and you are pretty much destroying them for
:23:04. > :23:12.a period of time and you are there then to help them put it all back
:23:12. > :23:18.together. When an incident occurs in an operational theatre, they
:23:18. > :23:23.have a procedure called "opt- minimise." All external
:23:23. > :23:26.communication is closed down. 108ers will respect that --
:23:26. > :23:30.soldiers will respect that close down of communication. They have
:23:30. > :23:34.lost a comrade, a friend. They could have lost a relative. They
:23:34. > :23:38.will respect that. Social media does play a part, obviously. When
:23:38. > :23:42.the information comes back, you cannot control families, members of
:23:42. > :23:46.the public who get the information from the family and they may post
:23:47. > :23:51.it. We've had occasions where non- family members have posted the
:23:51. > :23:58.information, which has caused some distress to the family. The
:23:58. > :24:03.soldiers in service they respect the opt minimise procedures.
:24:03. > :24:07.Walking up the path, you know you're going to knock on the door.
:24:07. > :24:13.You know that somebody's life is going to change from that day on.
:24:13. > :24:17.You've got to be professional. You've got to be mature and you've
:24:17. > :24:22.got to be in the right mind-set to do it. That is all we can do as
:24:22. > :24:27.soldiers, you know. We are trained to do stuff like this.
:24:27. > :24:31.Some people want to know the very fine intimate detail. Some people
:24:31. > :24:35.just want to know the overall incident they have been involved in.
:24:35. > :24:41.People will deny this happened to them. People will get angry.
:24:41. > :24:44.People will just accept what has happened. Because in this little
:24:45. > :24:48.bubble at this particular time they've never been in before. They
:24:48. > :24:51.are not angry that their sons or daughters have been injured in the
:24:51. > :24:55.theatre of operations, they understand they volunteered A
:24:55. > :24:59.couple of casesvy been involved in the families have said, sadly it
:24:59. > :25:06.happened, they were doing what they were doing, it is what they
:25:06. > :25:11.volunteered for and what they I have a serving son in law and if
:25:11. > :25:18.it happened to me, I don't know how I would react. The people I dealt
:25:18. > :25:22.with, I can never understand their pain or grief, because it's not me.
:25:22. > :25:26.As we approach remembrance time, we have to remember the first and
:25:26. > :25:31.Second World War, where whole communities were devastated.
:25:31. > :25:34.Communities in Wales are small. That may be the only one in that
:25:34. > :25:39.community with somebody in the military. If they lose somebody
:25:39. > :25:45.they may feel isolated. They will get sympathy, emfathi from all
:25:45. > :25:53.their friends and -- empathy from all their friends and family. Years
:25:53. > :25:57.ago there was a whos who of people who had lost one. Now it can be
:25:57. > :26:03.more difficult for families and individuals. It is really quite
:26:03. > :26:11.tragic. Well, that was the story of Captain
:26:11. > :26:15.On Remembrance Sunday, when you have a prominent role and people
:26:15. > :26:23.are focusing on the need of the armed services are we losing sites
:26:23. > :26:29.of the veterans? I think we are. It is so haphazard when people who are
:26:29. > :26:32.discharge Road looked after. It depends to a large extent which
:26:32. > :26:35.regiment, whether your senior officers are interested in what
:26:35. > :26:40.happens to you when you are discharged. To put it in a nutshell,
:26:40. > :26:45.I would say, when we spend months training up these people for combat,
:26:45. > :26:49.we need to spend a similar time decompressing them back for civvy
:26:49. > :26:53.street. It is difficult for some people who have been in the Army
:26:53. > :26:58.for a fair while even to understand or to realise they need to pay
:26:58. > :27:03.bills regularly. They have got to get somewhere to live. They may
:27:03. > :27:07.deal with marital breakdown, substance misuse and so on. There
:27:07. > :27:11.are many problems which confront people in the Armed Forces.
:27:11. > :27:15.don't think that is the principal job of the British Legion who
:27:15. > :27:21.provides a lot of these services. What different kind of provision
:27:21. > :27:27.are you talking about? They do a lot of excellent work, like the
:27:27. > :27:29.Poppy today. One of the problems we have, actually, was there are
:27:29. > :27:33.between 3,000-4,000 military charities. I think we should be
:27:33. > :27:39.looking at perhaps some of them getting together, some of them
:27:39. > :27:44.being able to provide the expertise in a given area. Others
:27:44. > :27:49.concentrating on something else,er than have a haphazard competition.
:27:49. > :27:53.I say primarily it is the role for Government. That is the crucial
:27:53. > :27:57.point? That is the crucial point F the third sector want to come in
:27:57. > :28:00.and assist as well, well. The primary responsibility has to be
:28:00. > :28:04.with Government. At the end of the day, they were out serving the
:28:04. > :28:08.state, therefore the state needs to provide for them. What has prompted
:28:08. > :28:14.your interested in this? Is it seeing examples which have bothered
:28:14. > :28:21.you? Until a couple of years ago I used to pratise at the bar, in my
:28:21. > :28:25.spare time and in one five-day period I saw half a dozen extremely
:28:25. > :28:32.serious cases for which there was no reason or certainly no motive.
:28:32. > :28:37.It worried me. When I looked at them, all six of them were involved,
:28:37. > :28:43.did involve ex-service people from Iraq one and two and Afghanistan.
:28:43. > :28:47.So, I got thinking then, how many of these unfortunate people end up
:28:47. > :28:52.in the criminal justice system. We found 10% of the prison state. That
:28:52. > :28:56.is many thousands of people. That is remarkable. It is a huge
:28:56. > :29:01.statistic. It maitd be denied by the Ministry of Defence. -- may be
:29:01. > :29:05.denied by the Ministry of Defence. Many of them, by the way, will be
:29:05. > :29:10.suffer from psychiatric conditions. So what we need to do is to screen
:29:10. > :29:13.these people properly. My view is we would look at a fraction of
:29:13. > :29:17.those people getting involved in crime. When you put the feelers out,
:29:17. > :29:24.what kind of response have you had? Well the Welsh committee are
:29:24. > :29:29.looking at it. A lot of good quork has been done by our friends --
:29:29. > :29:33.work has been done by our friends. We have the military covenant
:29:33. > :29:37.enshrined in law. We need to back that up with positive and firm
:29:38. > :29:46.action. That is what I am pressing for you. The time is right for that
:29:46. > :29:50.to happen. Good of you to talk to Next week we will back in Cardiff
:29:50. > :29:55.and we will get to grips with a subject that lots of you are