:00:04. > :00:09.Tonight on The Wales Report: So the Welsh Government wants to buy an
:00:09. > :00:12.airport. But is the Carwyn Jones plan really a good use of public
:00:12. > :00:15.money? What's in a flag? A Welsh
:00:15. > :00:16.perspective on the Union flag row that's caused so much tension in
:00:16. > :00:19.Belfast. And in the ever-changing character
:00:19. > :00:29.of today's Wales we visit one village where the fight for
:00:29. > :00:34.
:00:34. > :00:38.identity is at a critical stage. Welcome to the first Wales Report
:00:38. > :00:42.of 2013. Blwyddyn newydd dda. A happy new year to everyone. It's
:00:42. > :00:46.good to be back. And there's plenty for us to talk about as we consider
:00:46. > :00:48.the big issues affecting the people of Wales in this new year. Any
:00:48. > :00:51.meaningful discussion about the state of the Welsh economy must
:00:51. > :00:56.involve transport infrastructure and let's face it Wales is hardly a
:00:56. > :01:01.world leader in this regard. Airport capacity notably in the
:01:01. > :01:03.south-east region around Cardiff is a crucial element. So why is Wales
:01:03. > :01:06.not served by a successful international airport, a gateway
:01:06. > :01:14.for business and investment and leisure which delivers its own
:01:14. > :01:16.burst of economic growth? After a turbulent patch and a dramatic fall
:01:16. > :01:21.in passenger numbers, the Welsh Government has stepped in with
:01:21. > :01:26.plans to buy the airport. Or to renationalise it, depending on your
:01:26. > :01:30.perspective. The First Minister says he has the people's support.
:01:30. > :01:33.His critics say it's quite simply a waste of tax-payers' money. As
:01:33. > :01:36.Helen Callaghan reports, Carwyn Jones has a fight on his hands not
:01:36. > :01:46.least from the people running Bristol Airport with its annual
:01:46. > :01:54.
:01:54. > :01:59.Airports, places of dreams, filled with the excitement and has signed
:01:59. > :02:06.bustle of travel. Arrival and departure lounges, packed with
:02:06. > :02:10.passengers to-ing and fro-ing for business and leisure. The crowning
:02:10. > :02:14.glory of any capital city. But that is not the picture in Wales.
:02:14. > :02:19.Cardiff Airport has been navigating its way through some pretty badge
:02:19. > :02:24.commercial turbulence lately. In 2012, passenger numbers hit an all-
:02:25. > :02:28.time low. Industry experts have told us that closure is the very
:02:29. > :02:32.real possibility. With that prospect in mind, the First
:02:32. > :02:36.Minister has been reaching for the Welsh Government chequebook. If
:02:36. > :02:43.that plan goes ahead, you, the taxpayer, could soon be the proud
:02:43. > :02:48.owner of Wales's only international airport. The present crisis is a
:02:48. > :02:56.far cry from the 70s and 80s, with the growth of package holidays and
:02:56. > :03:02.the expansion of the airport. Times were good. When ownership passed to
:03:02. > :03:07.a Spanish company, at the airport continued to do well. But over the
:03:07. > :03:11.last five years, there has been a dramatic decline in its fortunes.
:03:11. > :03:16.Cardiff's passenger numbers have halved from 2 million to 1.2
:03:16. > :03:22.million in 2011, with a seemingly similar decline in investment.
:03:22. > :03:28.Cardiff has not come off too well out of this low-cost revolution.
:03:28. > :03:33.The two biggest low-cost airlines in the UK are in Bristol, and
:03:33. > :03:37.Cardiff was left with another airline, BMI Baby, which never
:03:37. > :03:40.really succeeded. It is the problem with that one particular airline
:03:40. > :03:45.that led to the decline in passenger numbers at Cardiff
:03:45. > :03:50.Airport. Just across the bridge in England, there is a very different
:03:50. > :03:55.story. Many Welsh people now fly from Bristol, helping the airport
:03:55. > :04:00.see a 1% rise in passenger numbers over the past year. More than 5.7
:04:00. > :04:04.million people pass through the checking gates. Their success has
:04:04. > :04:09.not come easily. We have been working for a long period of time
:04:09. > :04:14.in attracting the leading airlines to Bristol. We have also invested
:04:14. > :04:16.about �100 million in the airport over the last decade, and that is
:04:16. > :04:20.expanding the infrastructure, improving the facilities and making
:04:20. > :04:24.it easier for people to get to Bristol Airport, which is
:04:25. > :04:29.incredibly important to us. This is a cut-throat business. Airport
:04:29. > :04:33.against airport. Bristol Airport remains determined to attract Welsh
:04:33. > :04:40.customers to its check-in desks. In a further blow to Cardiff Airport,
:04:40. > :04:45.the Wales Report can reveal that from March Bristol Airport will be
:04:45. > :04:49.operating a direct Greyhound bus link from Swansea, Cardiff, Newport
:04:49. > :04:56.and the airport. The Welsh Government has well and truly
:04:56. > :04:59.arrived in a commercial jungle. In 2012, Carwyn Jones told the company
:04:59. > :05:07.to invest in the airport or sell it. Now that is your money that is
:05:07. > :05:12.going to be invested, how much do you want to they? As the price
:05:12. > :05:16.varies from �50 million up to �150 million and in truth nobody knows.
:05:16. > :05:21.We do not know two things, the purchase price and what the
:05:21. > :05:25.Government intends to do with the airport if it goes ahead with the
:05:25. > :05:29.purchase. Having bought it, they will have to find someone to run it
:05:29. > :05:33.and hopefully at a profit. It is thought they will appoint a new
:05:33. > :05:37.management team but that team will be facing a massive challenge. To
:05:37. > :05:41.make the airport busy and profitable you have got to attract
:05:41. > :05:47.new airlines and they have to see it as a money-maker. You can spend
:05:47. > :05:50.as much money on it as you like. The Welsh Government can put
:05:50. > :05:55.window-boxes full of daffodils everywhere in there. It is not
:05:55. > :05:58.going to make a difference to the airlines. Yes, they would like to
:05:59. > :06:03.obviously bring these routes in and yes, the public would love it as
:06:03. > :06:08.well. But at the end of the day it is the airline that has to take the
:06:08. > :06:12.risk. At the moment, they don't think that there are enough people
:06:12. > :06:18.here in South Wales with enough disposable income to support the
:06:18. > :06:21.services. I just can't see it happening. And an airport in public
:06:21. > :06:28.ownership will have many people keeping a very close eye on the
:06:28. > :06:33.books. This is a commercially sensitive market. We would be
:06:33. > :06:38.concerned if state subsidies were provided to Cardiff Airport and of
:06:38. > :06:42.course this date Minister -- First Minister is calling for the
:06:42. > :06:46.devolution of aviation tax and the scrapping of aviation tax. But if
:06:46. > :06:50.that was to restore an efficient and open and competitive market for
:06:50. > :06:55.air travel across the UK, we would have a problem. With respect to the
:06:55. > :06:59.possible nationalisation of Cardiff Airport, we certainly do not have
:06:59. > :07:05.any issues. Of course provided that process and competition is on a
:07:05. > :07:08.very level playing field. Our concern would be if there were any
:07:08. > :07:12.state subsidies provided as part of the process. We welcome the
:07:12. > :07:15.assurances from the First Minister that Cardiff Airport will be
:07:15. > :07:19.operated on a commercial basis and there will not be state subsidies.
:07:19. > :07:22.Provided that is the case, we will be very happy. Many believe that
:07:22. > :07:27.this plan has not been fully thought through and it could cost
:07:27. > :07:30.us dear. We do not know how much they will pay for the airport. They
:07:30. > :07:35.have given us no idea what their objectives are and they have given
:07:35. > :07:39.us no idea what kind of action plan they will put in place. And now the
:07:39. > :07:43.owners of the airport have got the First Minister over a barrel. They
:07:43. > :07:47.can name their price, otherwise the First Minister is forced into a
:07:47. > :07:50.humiliating U-turn. The problem is it is not his money. It is our
:07:50. > :07:53.money as taxpayers and we have a duty to scrutinise this very
:07:53. > :07:57.carefully if and make sure that money is effectively spent to
:07:57. > :08:01.deliver something that is a benefit rather than just a black hole
:08:01. > :08:07.sucking public money down the drain. The Welsh Government believes that
:08:07. > :08:10.Wales needs a major airport close to the capital city. But are we
:08:10. > :08:17.travelling to destination unknown? And crucially how much will the
:08:17. > :08:21.ticket cost? So joining me in the studio is the
:08:21. > :08:26.Labour Assembly minister Mick Antoniw, who was on the airports
:08:26. > :08:31.committee before it was privatised. And the Conservative MP for their
:08:31. > :08:35.of Glamorgan, Alun Cairns. Let's be direct. Is there a commercial case
:08:35. > :08:39.for having this airport in the first place? Any interest and
:08:39. > :08:42.investment in the airport is welcome and it is important to the
:08:42. > :08:46.economy and the jobs at the maintenance centre next door as
:08:46. > :08:50.well. The point I want to make is that you do not have to own an
:08:50. > :08:54.airport to support an airport. It has been run down over recent years.
:08:54. > :08:58.The Welsh Assembly Government has not really supported it at all.
:08:58. > :09:01.Only last year we have public fights between the airport owners
:09:01. > :09:04.and the First Minister and just two-and-a-half years ago the
:09:04. > :09:08.National Transport plan did not have any mention other than two
:09:08. > :09:11.lines of Cardiff Airport. That is the priority of support that there
:09:11. > :09:15.was Government has given the airport over the last five years or
:09:15. > :09:19.so. We will come back to the commercial viability, a crucial
:09:19. > :09:22.question. From your point of view, is this strategy the right one
:09:23. > :09:26.given the fact that this airport has been doing quite poorly? If we
:09:26. > :09:29.think an airport is important to the future of the Welsh economy,
:09:29. > :09:34.then it is the only strategy available because no one else at
:09:34. > :09:37.the moment is going to step in. We either let it deteriorate, or we
:09:37. > :09:41.say there is an important role for the airport and we are going to
:09:41. > :09:48.build that role and make it part of the hub of the economy.
:09:48. > :09:50.viability of this airport as a unit, pie in the sky or not? Well, I
:09:50. > :09:54.think the Welsh Government is looking at it the wrong way. They
:09:54. > :09:58.think having an airport is imported to the economy, and it is. But you
:09:58. > :10:01.need to have a vibrant economy that will support an international
:10:01. > :10:05.airport and they are looking at the telescope the wrong way round, if
:10:05. > :10:08.you like. The important thing is to have a strong economy. I have
:10:08. > :10:14.spoken to a number of airlines who have said that they do not see this
:10:14. > :10:18.disposable income and the business demand locally to be strong enough
:10:18. > :10:22.to support them. But if you look up the North East, Newcastle airport,
:10:22. > :10:25.and some of the airports in Scotland, Emirates were looking at
:10:25. > :10:28.the North East and some of the airport in Glasgow and Edinburgh
:10:28. > :10:32.and they were also looking at Cardiff. You cannot subsidise an
:10:32. > :10:37.airline because that is against European rules, but you can support
:10:37. > :10:42.the marketing of the roots, both in the overseas destination and in the
:10:42. > :10:46.UK. You can make that flight more viable much more quickly. There was
:10:46. > :10:49.Government refused to do that over recent years, but the regional
:10:49. > :10:53.development agency in the North of England was happy to do that and
:10:53. > :10:57.the Scottish Government was happy to do that for Glasgow and for
:10:57. > :11:00.Edinburgh. But the Welsh Government did not do that and that is the
:11:00. > :11:05.sort of support that we need, but we can do it without owning the
:11:05. > :11:11.airport. How much do you think the airport is what? The answer is that
:11:11. > :11:17.I do not know. I have seen figures from �35 million up to �150 million.
:11:17. > :11:21.You have to look at the books and the debts and the potential
:11:21. > :11:25.partners. Bristol were talking about them investing �100 million
:11:25. > :11:28.of their own money. You have got the same in Newcastle and
:11:28. > :11:32.Manchester, where they are investing enormous amount of money
:11:32. > :11:36.in infrastructure, but they are again effectively publicly owned.
:11:36. > :11:40.On the political risk, do you think it will be impossible for Carwyn
:11:40. > :11:47.Jones to withdraw now that he has committed to buying it, no matter
:11:47. > :11:50.what the prices? I don't. If it turned round the whole situation,
:11:50. > :11:54.and the situation changed in terms of the due diligence work, I think
:11:54. > :11:58.they would have to pull up. The Assembly is only going to support
:11:58. > :12:02.the business plan that is viable. None of us are going to sit there
:12:02. > :12:08.and support something that cannot be sustained. Two issues come out
:12:08. > :12:11.of that. One, at the company that owns the airport has the First
:12:11. > :12:14.Minister over a barrel. That is because of the political priority
:12:14. > :12:18.but the First Minister has made of it. But he could turn round and say
:12:18. > :12:21.he is not prepared to pay that price, there was taxpayer will not.
:12:21. > :12:24.He has made such a political and this on this before Christmas that
:12:24. > :12:28.I think it would be impossible for him to walk away and that is a
:12:28. > :12:31.worrying factor because we will pay more money than it is worth. If it
:12:31. > :12:36.was such a good deal, there would be a host of private sector
:12:36. > :12:39.companies queuing up ready to take over the ownership. Or ready to
:12:39. > :12:42.take over the running of Cardiff Airport. And even with the massive
:12:42. > :12:46.numbers of passengers going through Bristol Airport, Bristol Airport
:12:46. > :12:50.lost money last year and that is the risk to the taxpayer. And
:12:50. > :12:56.finally, at a time when there is a desperate need for capital spent in
:12:56. > :12:58.the economy, on roads, infrastructure, on a whole range of
:12:58. > :13:04.projects, tier cannot believe the First Minister is talking about
:13:04. > :13:08.tying up tens of millions of pounds. -- I cannot believe. And he is also
:13:08. > :13:11.taking on the debt of the airport itself. Is it not important for
:13:11. > :13:16.Wales to have its own proper international airport? Well, it is,
:13:16. > :13:20.but you do not have to own an airport to support it. That is the
:13:20. > :13:25.fundamental issue. Scotland and the Regional Development Agency in
:13:25. > :13:27.Newcastle both supported their airports and do not own them.
:13:27. > :13:33.is a status purchase and not something that makes commercial
:13:33. > :13:38.sense? It is not. Ownership is not the key issue alone, the key issue
:13:38. > :13:44.is who will step in and rescue the airport. That tells you that it is
:13:44. > :13:48.a bad deal, doesn't it? It does not. There is nobody else around. If you
:13:48. > :13:51.think the airport is important, who will step in and actually do that?
:13:51. > :13:57.In exactly the same way as the local authority stepped in with
:13:57. > :14:00.Manchester and with Newcastle, and in fact the Scottish Government
:14:00. > :14:04.with the Highlands and Islands, we now think that an airport is
:14:04. > :14:08.important that we want it or we walk away. Adding the Welsh
:14:08. > :14:12.Government has taken a brave and correct decision. -- I think.
:14:12. > :14:15.doing it because no one else will do the job. That is because they
:14:15. > :14:20.have not shown to bought over the last five years or more and I have
:14:20. > :14:23.given examples in relation to that. -- not shown support. There is
:14:23. > :14:28.interest and I think people will be surprised when the announcements
:14:28. > :14:37.are made with regard to this plan. We will have you back to talk about
:14:37. > :14:40.What's in a flag? In this case, the Union flag - or Union Jack, take
:14:40. > :14:43.your pick. It's a question that's featured prominently in news
:14:43. > :14:47.headlines in recent weeks given the violence on the streets of Belfast.
:14:47. > :14:50.The City Council voted not to fly the flag every day, and the
:14:50. > :14:53.decision led to some of the worst violence since the Good Friday
:14:54. > :14:57.Agreement was signed nearly 15 years ago. And plenty of questions
:14:57. > :15:00.have been asked about the way the decision was handled. My next guest
:15:00. > :15:03.knows more than most about the situation in today's Northern
:15:03. > :15:13.Ireland, having served as Secretary of State. He's Labour's Peter Hain,
:15:13. > :15:14.
:15:14. > :15:19.the MP for Neath. What has gone wrong? A number of things. I
:15:19. > :15:23.believe the main one is that working-class loyalists feel they
:15:23. > :15:28.have not been stakeholders for changed since we negotiated the
:15:28. > :15:33.historic solution in 2007. Young people but at the forefront of
:15:33. > :15:36.these problems are without jobs, youth unemployment is horrific in
:15:36. > :15:42.Northern Ireland. Particularly loyalist youngsters feel they don't
:15:42. > :15:47.have a real future. They think that republicans are getting everything.
:15:47. > :15:52.That is a misnomer. Some of the recent trouble around the parading
:15:52. > :15:56.season was young Republicans. You have youngsters without jobs and
:15:56. > :16:00.trading, in the NEETs category, on both sides of the divide, feeling
:16:00. > :16:04.this is not best seen any more. They can't get jobs, they don't
:16:04. > :16:09.have a stake so they are causing trouble. I think there is an
:16:10. > :16:13.identity she was well. Was it right to make the decision in the first
:16:13. > :16:19.place? It was made because a compromise was being sought, but
:16:20. > :16:24.with hindsight, were they right? is very difficult for me as a
:16:24. > :16:28.former Secretary of State to say what was right or wrong. This is a
:16:28. > :16:33.devolved legislature, it is a devolved Northern Ireland. What
:16:33. > :16:37.would you have done if you were in office? This is a divided city
:16:37. > :16:42.between Protestants and Catholics still, between Unionists and
:16:42. > :16:46.nationalists, Republicans. The decision they took was hard argued.
:16:46. > :16:50.The Alliance Party, which has traditionally opted a middle way,
:16:50. > :16:55.was the one which came up with only flying the flag on certain
:16:55. > :16:59.designated days. It seemed a reasonable compromise. In fact, it
:16:59. > :17:04.has inflamed the situation, but for reasons which are not only, in my
:17:04. > :17:09.view, to do with the Union Jack, the British flag, above Belfast
:17:09. > :17:13.City Hall, but with the wider alienation, especially of your
:17:13. > :17:17.loyalists, from what they see as a developing society around them.
:17:17. > :17:21.Billions of pounds of public money has been invested in industry in
:17:21. > :17:25.the province, partly to create jobs, despite the fact that youth
:17:25. > :17:29.unemployment is very high. People in other parts of the UK have
:17:29. > :17:34.little patience with what they see happening in Belfast, they think
:17:34. > :17:39.people are not responding to the kind of support they have had. Do
:17:39. > :17:43.you lack sympathy? It is true that Northern Ireland has had more
:17:43. > :17:49.subsidy if in its public services, its state and the public sector
:17:49. > :17:53.generally than any other part of the UK, Wales included. In other
:17:53. > :17:57.respects they are privileged, they still don't pay water charges. I
:17:57. > :18:04.tried to introduce the last Secretary of State, which caused a
:18:04. > :18:07.terrific rumpus. -- I tried to introduce them as Secretary of
:18:07. > :18:13.State. But the society is in transition from centuries of
:18:13. > :18:17.conflict. And a bitter, violent and terrorist conflict which needs
:18:17. > :18:22.support to get it to a place where it needs to be. Do you see any
:18:22. > :18:27.parallels at all, not the violence, thankfully, but any other parallels
:18:27. > :18:29.throughout the rest of the devolved UK, people taking more
:18:29. > :18:34.responsibility for their own affairs? You were a very big,
:18:34. > :18:38.strong element in the campaign to get devolution to Wales. That
:18:38. > :18:43.identity struggle, do you see it playing out elsewhere? I think
:18:43. > :18:46.there is an issue with English identity. I have always thought the
:18:46. > :18:50.asymmetric devolution settlement was not sustainable, power needed
:18:50. > :18:55.to be divorced in England and not just London, to the rest of the
:18:55. > :19:00.English regions, cities and so on. In Northern Ireland, I think there
:19:00. > :19:04.is a different issue which could be in play under this austerity, if in
:19:04. > :19:09.a wider sense, across Britain. When people don't feel they have a stake
:19:09. > :19:13.in society, identity becomes even more important. For example, you
:19:13. > :19:17.saw the rise of the BNP, when people did not feel like they were
:19:17. > :19:21.getting housing opportunities, they worried about immigration and job
:19:21. > :19:27.security, including under the Labour government. The BNP came to
:19:27. > :19:31.the fore. UKIP is coming to the fore with the European question and
:19:31. > :19:35.a lot of other associated issues, it is not just a one-issue party.
:19:35. > :19:38.Identity becomes more important in a situation where people feel
:19:38. > :19:42.insecure and under siege. In Northern Ireland there is a
:19:42. > :19:46.particular issue with the loyalist community, I don't think the
:19:46. > :19:49.Government is doing enough to engage with them. I took risky
:19:50. > :19:53.decisions to engage with people on the fringes, and some almost in
:19:53. > :19:58.uniform, as it were, in paramilitary activity, to engage
:19:58. > :20:01.with them. And it paid off. The wider question of identity comes to
:20:01. > :20:07.the fore when people don't have a wider stake in the normal bread-
:20:07. > :20:12.and-butter jobs, housing, education, opportunities that are the stuff of
:20:12. > :20:14.daily life. Peter, thank you very much. Peter Hain.
:20:14. > :20:17.That notion of identity, especially cultural identity, has been
:20:17. > :20:21.examined in detail since the latest census figures for Wales were
:20:21. > :20:24.published. They are a gold mine of information, telling us how Wales
:20:24. > :20:26.has changed over the past decade - with religion, language and
:20:26. > :20:30.nationality featuring very prominently. The number of people
:20:30. > :20:32.able to speak Welsh has fallen from 20.5% to 19%, with the sharpest
:20:32. > :20:36.decline recorded in the heartlands of Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion.
:20:36. > :20:39.David Williams has been to one of the oldest villages in Wales,
:20:39. > :20:43.Brechfa - deep in the countryside some 12 miles from Carmarthen -
:20:43. > :20:46.where he came face to face with the reality of what's happening. And he
:20:46. > :20:56.discovered that the future of the language might well depend on some
:20:56. > :21:04.
:21:04. > :21:14.of the incomers, and those who The reality of living in today's
:21:14. > :21:15.
:21:15. > :21:19.Wales is to be found in places like this. This is Brechfa. Population,
:21:19. > :21:25.300. And something of a microcosm of what it is to try and preserve
:21:25. > :21:29.the essence of a community at a time of great change. You don't
:21:29. > :21:34.just arrive in Brechfa, you have to make an effort to get here. The
:21:34. > :21:40.villagers said to be a settlement dating back in the coffee barbie to
:21:40. > :21:46.the 6th century. One steeped in the Welsh language, it is now
:21:46. > :21:50.linguistically finely balanced - half Welsh, half-English. But
:21:50. > :21:54.united in a common aim - preserving the community. Invariably,
:21:54. > :21:58.something gets lost in translation when the English and Welsh
:21:58. > :22:03.languages are interpreted or misinterpreted. It can lead to
:22:03. > :22:08.confusion and misunderstanding. Take the notice on this date. In
:22:08. > :22:12.Wells, it suggests quite correctly that this school is no longer
:22:12. > :22:16.operational. In English, the suggestion is that the village of
:22:16. > :22:21.Brechfa itself is no longer operational, which is simply not
:22:21. > :22:31.true. And they hope is that this little school will soon have a new
:22:31. > :22:32.
:22:32. > :22:37.role and will help to reinvigorate I was brought up in a village much
:22:37. > :22:41.like this, a Welsh speaker in a community where there were only two
:22:41. > :22:47.pupils from an English background at the school at which my father
:22:47. > :22:51.was the headmaster. How things have changed. In Brechfa, the linguistic
:22:51. > :22:57.population shift in the last 50 years has been, as it has in the
:22:57. > :23:02.village of my childhood, dramatic. Not only has Welsh as the first
:23:02. > :23:06.language taken a huge hit in this village, falling pupil numbers has
:23:06. > :23:10.forced the authority to move the children of Brechfa six miles down
:23:10. > :23:14.the roads are to another school. But the campaign to keep the
:23:14. > :23:18.building open and preserve it as both an educational and business
:23:18. > :23:22.centre of village life has only just begun.
:23:22. > :23:27.This man, and in, from Hertfordshire, walked around the
:23:27. > :23:32.school all day in his wellingtons to raise money for a project aimed
:23:32. > :23:39.at saving the building. Now considered a vital part of his
:23:39. > :23:42.local community. We were very excited about helping the school.
:23:42. > :23:45.The whole idea of a little girl living in a village and going to
:23:45. > :23:51.the village school and having friends in the village was very
:23:51. > :24:01.meaningful, so it was a great blow to our son lots of other families.
:24:01. > :24:10.-- great blow to us and lots of These young women may hold the key
:24:10. > :24:15.to the success of the project. just remember my childhood, and it
:24:15. > :24:18.was great growing up in Brechfa, around the forest, mountain biking
:24:18. > :24:25.in the river. I just think it would be nice to promote this area and
:24:25. > :24:30.make people realise how great it is and how good it can be. Both Welsh-
:24:30. > :24:34.speaking, both brought up in Brechfa, they went to this school.
:24:34. > :24:40.Both went off to university and travelled the world but, unusually,
:24:40. > :24:43.both have returned home. And both are determined to play their part
:24:43. > :24:47.and re-energised their community. We just think it is really
:24:47. > :24:52.important to keep the Welsh language alive. It is part of our
:24:52. > :24:56.heritage and culture, and to see it disappear would be a shame. They
:24:56. > :25:06.want to set up a food store for a yet to be established mountain-
:25:06. > :25:10.
:25:10. > :25:15.And this is the woman who was the driving force behind the Brechfa
:25:15. > :25:20.project. Mary Mitchell, a retired schoolteacher, is a self-employed
:25:20. > :25:24.milk recorder, collecting samples from local farms for analysis in
:25:24. > :25:30.England. She was brought up in Carmarthenshire, moved away but
:25:30. > :25:35.returned with her family to live in Brechfa. It is not just about the
:25:35. > :25:39.Welsh language, it is about the age of the people, because the
:25:39. > :25:42.demographic has changed here and what we are getting is a lot more
:25:42. > :25:47.retired people moving in here. Because the housing is not
:25:47. > :25:51.affordable for younger families. What some people here will tell you
:25:51. > :25:56.privately, though not publicly, is that a great deal of the drive
:25:56. > :26:02.which it has sustained this village comes from people who have either
:26:02. > :26:09.moved away and come back off from people who have simply moved into
:26:09. > :26:14.the area. The incomers and those returning are powerful force for
:26:14. > :26:18.the rejuvenation of places like Brechfa. It may be that for some
:26:18. > :26:24.this is an uncomfortable truth, but one that needs to be faced not only
:26:24. > :26:29.in Brechfa but in Wales as a hole in what is a critical time for both
:26:29. > :26:38.the Welsh language and the survival of the communities which help to
:26:38. > :26:43.sustain the language. But does it really matter that we
:26:43. > :26:48.all speak the language of heaven? Is it really important to our
:26:48. > :26:53.collective well-being that we all speak Welsh? Or is it more
:26:53. > :27:03.important in a place like this to ensure a vibrant community which
:27:03. > :27:08.embraces both languages? The inevitable question that divides us
:27:08. > :27:14.as a nation and causes individuals like me continual angst and
:27:14. > :27:18.consternation has risen its head again. There was never an easy or
:27:18. > :27:22.satisfactory answer to that conundrum, and the complexities
:27:22. > :27:28.attached to the issue of the language seemed magnified in places
:27:28. > :27:32.like this. Bit by bit, the villagers of Brechfa have seen not
:27:32. > :27:36.only the Welsh language disappear, but also those elements which go to
:27:36. > :27:42.the core of community life here. The chapel, the Pope and, most
:27:42. > :27:46.recently, the calf -- the chapel, the Pope, and, most recently, the
:27:46. > :27:54.school have all gone. Only the local shop has been saved as a
:27:54. > :28:00.community run venture. Good morning, how are you? Have you
:28:00. > :28:05.any sandwiches? Yes, we do, in the chiller cabinet. The little shop is
:28:05. > :28:11.at the heart of this community, a place enjoyed by everyone, natives
:28:11. > :28:16.and incomers alike. Bill Bradley, one of the volunteer directors,
:28:16. > :28:21.retired here from Middlesex. Well, I love it here. A lot of people
:28:21. > :28:28.said to me, oh, don't live in Wales, but I must say I really love living
:28:28. > :28:31.here. What do they mean, don't live in Wales? They said we wouldn't be
:28:31. > :28:36.welcome and they all speak Welsh and we wouldn't fit in, but we have
:28:36. > :28:41.fitted in very well. We have been welcomed by everybody. And they do
:28:41. > :28:48.speak Welsh? They do. Sometimes I stand here in the shop and I don't
:28:48. > :28:55.understand a word they are saying. Coup attempts at a community buy-
:28:55. > :28:58.out of the local pub failed, so now the focus of potential is on the
:28:58. > :29:04.local school's the focus of attention is on the local school,
:29:04. > :29:07.close last year but still seen as the potential new sense of
:29:07. > :29:12.community life. The local authority is keeping the door open - for the
:29:12. > :29:16.time being, at least. We have to produce an outline proposal and a
:29:16. > :29:21.five-year business plan with five- year cash forecasts by March.
:29:21. > :29:27.Hopefully from September if it is accepted, we can have it to rent
:29:27. > :29:32.for 12 to 18 months, and then the option to buy. It is absolutely
:29:32. > :29:37.doable. The very future of the Welsh language, not to say the
:29:37. > :29:42.future of communities like this which helped to foster it, depend
:29:42. > :29:47.on the goodwill of all people in places like this. If there are no
:29:47. > :29:54.communities, then there is nothing left to debate. And that would be a
:29:54. > :29:58.David Williams reporting. That's it for tonight's programme. Next week
:29:58. > :30:02.Tim Rogers will be assessing a big week for the NHS in Wales - and
:30:02. > :30:04.that's always a big talking point. So get in touch and send us your