:00:08. > :00:14.Tonight on the Wales Report, after the April Jones murder trial, calls
:00:14. > :00:18.for robust action to restrict access to pornographic images online.
:00:18. > :00:23.Passengers at Cardiff at a 15-year low. What can the Government do to
:00:23. > :00:27.get the business off the ground? Is Wales taking science seriously? A
:00:28. > :00:37.new drive to get school children to embrace the global possibilities.
:00:38. > :00:41.
:00:41. > :00:44.Welcome to the Wales Report, where we look at the decisions affecting
:00:44. > :00:49.lives across Wales and we question the people making those decisions.
:00:49. > :00:53.The week has been dominated by the trial and the conviction of Mark
:00:53. > :00:59.Bridger for the murder of five-year-old April Jones. Details
:00:59. > :01:04.have emerged of his obsession with violent pornography. It has led to
:01:05. > :01:10.renewed calls for tougher restriction, including action by the
:01:11. > :01:16.big search engines to block access to extreme sites. Joining me is the
:01:16. > :01:21.chief executive of Children in Wales and from the forum on children. It
:01:21. > :01:25.has been a harrowing trial that people have followed in Mid Wales
:01:25. > :01:31.after the dreadful events in Machynlleth. What lessons have you
:01:31. > :01:35.learnt from it? The biggest lesson is this is not new. Holly and
:01:35. > :01:39.Jessica in the past died. We had a lot of interest from the public
:01:39. > :01:43.from, the media - everyone was horrified. Then it is yesterday's
:01:43. > :01:51.news. What we have to do this time is keep up the momentum to deal
:01:51. > :01:56.with, what is sadly, a growing issue, that the volume of images
:01:56. > :02:01.that are horrendous, vile - the trade in those images and the
:02:01. > :02:06.increasing number of hits on those images on the internet are growing.
:02:06. > :02:10.When we look at the availability of these images and it is clearly easy
:02:10. > :02:14.to access them for those who are minded in that way, what practical
:02:14. > :02:19.steps are you suggesting? Very often people say, look this is the nature
:02:19. > :02:24.of the internet - it is there, it is free, it is accessible. If people
:02:24. > :02:28.twoont do evil and wicked things they need to be caught, but you
:02:28. > :02:34.cannot put restrictions on the entire web. It is time for the
:02:34. > :02:39.public to stand up and be counted. There is an African proverb which
:02:39. > :02:44.says it takes a whole village to raise a child. It takes a whole
:02:44. > :02:48.community to raise our children. We have a good Welsh comupty, but
:02:48. > :02:51.across the -- community, but across the world. We need to stand up
:02:51. > :02:56.against the search engine companies. At the moment, what they are saying
:02:56. > :03:01.is, well, you can report it to us and then we will close the site
:03:01. > :03:05.down. That is the reaction response. We want a default response, where
:03:05. > :03:09.these images - because they are all illegal. You are not allowed to
:03:09. > :03:12.abuse a child. You are not allowed to produce an image and not allowed
:03:12. > :03:17.to put them on the internet - they are illegal. It has to be stopped.
:03:17. > :03:22.You are talking about a blanket ban, a block, in effect? Yes.How would
:03:22. > :03:26.that work? I am not a technical person, but what we have to say is
:03:26. > :03:31.that society does not want these images on the internet available.
:03:31. > :03:37.There's a lot of our campaigns which have been helping parents to have
:03:37. > :03:41.information for them to control the access, for children to be aware of
:03:41. > :03:44.not going off with strangers, to tell parents everything, but it is
:03:44. > :03:50.fundamentally wrong that the responsibility is with those
:03:50. > :03:55.individual parents and children. It has to be developed. In fairness,
:03:55. > :03:58.the UK has got a bill going through Parliament at the moment on Internet
:03:58. > :04:03.access, which is an appropriate, inappropriate information there. But
:04:03. > :04:09.it is a global issue. It is ironic that we are talking about a dreadful
:04:09. > :04:14.case in Wales where it has emerged that this stuff is available online,
:04:14. > :04:20.easily, and yet we are meant to be far more advanced, you say, than
:04:20. > :04:25.other countries. It makes you think what is available elsewhere. I have
:04:25. > :04:28.worked with colleagues in other countries who are busy trying to
:04:28. > :04:33.protect their children from worse access than we have got. We have to
:04:33. > :04:37.remember too that those images of the children and I say images, they
:04:37. > :04:42.are actually a record of concrete abuse and rape of individual
:04:42. > :04:47.children. They may be from the Philippines, they may be from
:04:47. > :04:53.Latvia. They may be from Cardiff. We don't actually know. We have to cut
:04:53. > :04:56.off the source. A final point, we have not mentioned the role of
:04:56. > :05:00.Government in this. We have mentioned the parliamentary bill. Do
:05:00. > :05:05.you think Government is proactive enough in this area? There is a
:05:05. > :05:10.willingness. I don't think the pace of change is sufficiently fast. We
:05:10. > :05:16.need to make sure that we are keeping the pressure up and not
:05:16. > :05:20.accepting excuses. Thank you for coming in. There are 33,000
:05:20. > :05:24.organisations in the voluntary sector in Wales. They are an
:05:24. > :05:28.integral part of Welsh life, including charities and community
:05:28. > :05:32.groups and they deliver some essential services. Many parts of
:05:32. > :05:37.the sector say they are in crisis. Amid concerns that the sector is not
:05:37. > :05:41.fulfilling one of its key rules - objectively scrutinising the
:05:41. > :05:44.policies of the Welsh Government. They say the delivery of services is
:05:44. > :05:49.being damaged. An official consultation on the relationship
:05:49. > :05:54.between the Welsh Government and the so-called third sector is due to
:05:54. > :06:01.conclude this summer. David Williams has been taking a ride on the third
:06:01. > :06:06.sector merry go round. Just over a decade ago, they were
:06:06. > :06:10.throwing money at it, tempting people aboard for the ride - it was
:06:10. > :06:15.the golden age of funding for what is called the third or voluntary
:06:15. > :06:23.sector in Wales. That's the sector which occupies a space between
:06:23. > :06:27.Government, the public and the private sectors. Voluntary sector
:06:27. > :06:31.organisations had all sorts of grant opportunities. They were able to
:06:32. > :06:37.take on a lot of new staff, they were able to develop new ways of
:06:37. > :06:42.working. Lots of innovation happened. Just before the start of
:06:42. > :06:47.the economic downturn, the mood music changed, as funding from the
:06:47. > :06:52.lottery and Europe either reduced or was diverted elsewhere. The third
:06:52. > :06:58.sector in Wales gets more than 20% of its income from the Welsh
:06:58. > :07:04.Government. That's more than �300 million a year. But it comes at a
:07:04. > :07:07.price. In return, the third sector is expected to contribute advice,
:07:07. > :07:12.intended to help the Welsh Government formulate policy. But
:07:12. > :07:16.some have found contact with their political masters difficult. A lot
:07:16. > :07:20.of the people I have spoken to have described it as a faceless
:07:20. > :07:27.organisation. It is quite impenetrable when you try and use
:07:27. > :07:30.the website. It is not very user friendly. Dr Rumble has been
:07:30. > :07:36.examining the relationship between the Welsh Government and its
:07:36. > :07:41.voluntary partners. Responses to her interviews resonated with the
:07:41. > :07:47.sector's growing dissatisfaction. With their anonymity preserved, we
:07:47. > :07:51.air some of those concerns for the first time. There are lots of
:07:51. > :07:55.charities in Wales, yet we see the same old faces on the committees. I
:07:55. > :08:00.think it is because half these people are not going anywhere. They
:08:00. > :08:10.are livers. They will stay there until they retire. The third sector
:08:10. > :08:16.partnership in Wales can aaccused of You are aware that you could be
:08:16. > :08:21.biting the hand that feeds you. We could be a lot more critical, but
:08:21. > :08:28.what is the point? It is difficult to negotiate the Welsh Government
:08:28. > :08:35.because it is such a behemoh. eyes of some of its own critical
:08:35. > :08:39.friends, the Welsh Government has seen -- is seen as something of a
:08:39. > :08:47.monster of biblical proportions. The monster, as some see it, is
:08:47. > :08:53.represented in Wales in the shape of a one-party state, in what amounts
:08:53. > :08:57.to this in the bay. In Wales, you evoke that polyian's name at your
:08:57. > :09:02.peril and you whisper these things rather than shout about them, in
:09:02. > :09:06.case, as one of those voices we heard earlier put it, you bite the
:09:06. > :09:09.hand that feeds you. Everyone knows hand that feeds you. Everyone knows
:09:09. > :09:14.that Wales is a Labour country. If you look at the next election you
:09:14. > :09:18.would expect to be working a Labour Government. Why would you rock the
:09:18. > :09:23.boat if you know at the next election there'll be no regime
:09:24. > :09:29.change and it will be more of the same? If you thought at the next
:09:29. > :09:34.election there would be a kon or a Plaid Cymru Government, then you
:09:34. > :09:40.would work harder... And lobbying those organisations? And trying to
:09:40. > :09:46.get what you want to see into their manifesto pledges. The man who heads
:09:46. > :09:51.the umbrella organisation for 33,000 voluntary organisations in Wales
:09:51. > :10:00.disagrees with the suggestion that his members are constrained by the
:10:00. > :10:06.existence of a one-party state in Wales. Civil society and charities
:10:06. > :10:10.will dedevelop their own manifestos and ideas. For one party?Which will
:10:10. > :10:14.be one term and which they will seek to pursue in a variety of ways.
:10:14. > :10:19.Sometimes that will be working with Government, of whatever political
:10:19. > :10:25.persuasion. These are not hugely politicised issues. Sometimes it
:10:25. > :10:31.will be having to campaign and to make it clear that the standard of
:10:31. > :10:35.service is not up to it. That is not being afraid of Government, because
:10:35. > :10:42.most organisations are not dependant on central Government money for
:10:42. > :10:45.their policy work. Unsurprisingly, political opponents of Labour are
:10:45. > :10:53.not convinced that the current structure of public bodies in Wales
:10:53. > :10:57.is a healthy one. My fear of course is that the Labour Party are an
:10:57. > :11:03.extremely tribal party in Wales. They tend to favour relationships
:11:03. > :11:08.with the bodies that are supportive of it and therefore we don't get
:11:08. > :11:12.that vibrant civil society, which is essential if democracy is to work
:11:13. > :11:19.properly. Critics say steps should be taken to ensure greater
:11:19. > :11:23.transparency in the make-up of those bodies which have such an important
:11:23. > :11:29.influence on our lives. We need accountability. It is transparency
:11:29. > :11:34.and what I call for is for the Welsh Government to publish, for every
:11:34. > :11:40.body receiving money for it, that the political affiliation of the
:11:40. > :11:43.senior personnel is published and also the numerous public appointees,
:11:43. > :11:49.running public services in Wales, the political membership of those
:11:49. > :11:52.individuals should be published - all parties. So, is the Welsh
:11:53. > :11:56.Government listening? It says it is. And the consultation exercise
:11:56. > :12:00.announced this month w the aim of reviewing the relationship between
:12:01. > :12:08.the Welsh Government and the third sector is said to be evidence of
:12:08. > :12:12.just that. I understand that this is intended to be more than simply a
:12:12. > :12:17.cosmetic exercise, intended merely to fob off the growing criticism and
:12:17. > :12:21.concern of a Labour-dominated society. It is said to be a genuine
:12:21. > :12:28.response to the concerns now surfacing publicly for the first
:12:28. > :12:33.time. I think, after ten years of devolution it is quite right to have
:12:33. > :12:40.a look. They call it a refresh in terms of how these structures are
:12:40. > :12:45.working. I think... They are all buzzwords. Do they mean anything?
:12:45. > :12:49.think in terms of taking the good of what we have at the moment, building
:12:49. > :12:56.upon that, yes, being honest about what works and doesn't work and then
:12:56. > :13:04.looking at ways of improving that, then that's the way to go.
:13:04. > :13:08.Well, all very encouraging. But in response to this latest consultation
:13:08. > :13:15.exercise will anybody dare to rock the boat and challenge the Welsh
:13:15. > :13:20.Government publicly? Or will it be the usual suspects mouthing familiar
:13:20. > :13:25.platitudes, in fear of having their funding cut? If that happens them it
:13:25. > :13:31.will only re-enforce the perception that this is the usual
:13:31. > :13:36.merry-go-round and Napolean is riding over Wales and when the music
:13:36. > :13:43.stops we will not be any further forward.
:13:43. > :13:48.That was David Williams, enjoying himself. Joining me is Anna Nichol.
:13:48. > :13:52.A policy and research consultant, working to encourage more
:13:52. > :13:57.participation in the third sector in Wales. Good to have you with us.
:13:57. > :14:01.That was depressing in a way. It seemed to suggest that nothing is
:14:01. > :14:06.moving or changing - is that fair? Sometimes by focussing just on those
:14:06. > :14:12.organisations that have public funding, maybe we are overegging the
:14:12. > :14:15.fact that we have a lot of campaigning groups in Wales. We do
:14:15. > :14:21.have independent voices. There are community groups across the country.
:14:21. > :14:25.So if you have an issue such as wind farms or a hospital or a school
:14:25. > :14:32.closing, actually you have a lot of dwroups campaigning. There is --
:14:32. > :14:35.groups campaigning. There is a lot of groups out there. Those who have
:14:35. > :14:38.received substantial funding, a small group of those charities and
:14:38. > :14:43.organisations that do have particular issues in their
:14:43. > :14:47.relationship with Government. are receiving, as a community, more
:14:47. > :14:52.than �300 million, there is a disincentive there, isn't there, to
:14:52. > :14:57.speak up or say things which might be critical, even if in a
:14:57. > :15:02.constructive way. It can be problematic. This is not exclusive
:15:02. > :15:07.to Wales. This happens across the UK and across the world with Government
:15:07. > :15:15.and third sector organisations. I think certainly for Government and
:15:15. > :15:18.for charities, it is about improving kind of services and the way that
:15:18. > :15:24.policies are delivered in Wales. Government knows if it wants
:15:24. > :15:27.effective policies it whats to listen to first-hand experience of
:15:27. > :15:32.those communities working with individuals or they will not get the
:15:32. > :15:37.effect of policies they want to and deliver services that work. You have
:15:37. > :15:42.worked at the highest level in Cardiff Bay. Are you saying that in
:15:42. > :15:47.the First Minister's office, no matter who that is, they would
:15:47. > :15:51.welcome country wugss which would question -- contributions which
:15:51. > :15:56.would question that - you don't welcome that at all? It is
:15:56. > :16:00.problematic. Certainly, I have seen it not being handled very well and,
:16:00. > :16:05.of course, it is a political environment. Nobody wants to be
:16:05. > :16:09.criticised. The Government itself is nervous oh at being criticised. I
:16:09. > :16:13.think -- nervous at being criticised. I think this
:16:13. > :16:17.relationship, 13 years into devolution, we know that if we are
:16:18. > :16:20.going to make better policy and deliver better services, that in
:16:20. > :16:25.principal this is something which needs to happen. Why isn't there, as
:16:25. > :16:31.I understand it, a comprehensive list of who gets money and where it
:16:31. > :16:36.goes? And that list might be easily accessible - why is that information
:16:36. > :16:40.not readingly available? Secondly, do you think it is fair, as Jonathan
:16:40. > :16:44.Edwards was saying, that people should declare political allegiance
:16:44. > :16:48.when representing some of these bodies receiving money? I am not
:16:48. > :16:53.sure whether there is or not a list of which public organisations get
:16:53. > :16:57.funding. I don't see why there isn't. I would image gib it has not
:16:57. > :17:01.been co-- I would imagine that it has not been collated across
:17:01. > :17:05.departments. In terms of political allegiance of charities and
:17:05. > :17:09.voluntary groups n the same way that Government should be open and
:17:09. > :17:14.accountable, I would certainly agree that third-sector organisations,
:17:14. > :17:18.wherever they are receiving funding from should be as open and
:17:18. > :17:21.accountable as possible. We should know who is running these
:17:21. > :17:27.organisations - staff and especially who is the trustees of these
:17:27. > :17:31.organisations. That is a positive principal, indeed whether they are
:17:31. > :17:36.receiving public funding or not. Anna, good to talk to you. Thank you
:17:36. > :17:41.very much. Thank you.Now, from the crisis in the third sector to the
:17:41. > :17:45.crisis at Cardiff airport. We reported on the Welsh Government's
:17:45. > :17:55.controversial decision to take over the airport. Passenger numbers are
:17:55. > :18:19.
:18:19. > :18:29.at a 15-year low. What can be done 25 years in civil aviation is where
:18:29. > :18:33.I have been. Birmingham airport - 51% of the shares are held by the
:18:33. > :18:39.public sector. We work together for a common purpose. It is that we want
:18:39. > :18:45.a successful region using its local airport. We have coined the phrase
:18:45. > :18:50."great airports for great cities and great airports for great cities."
:18:50. > :18:55.Speak to you later. That was my wife. I think the Welsh Government
:18:55. > :18:59.have to run the airport at arm's length. There are people who will
:18:59. > :19:02.cry foul play if they don't - the European Union being one. A number
:19:02. > :19:08.of airports across Europe have been called to account by the commission,
:19:08. > :19:13.who have said, you cannot vest in this particular operation because
:19:13. > :19:17.you are using public funds and you are distorting the market. The
:19:17. > :19:21.challenge the Welsh Government faces is how you reinvigorate the airport.
:19:21. > :19:26.What you are saying is not just Cardiff airport, you are selling the
:19:26. > :19:30.Welsh economy and the economy of South Wales. Look to the people of
:19:30. > :19:34.Cardiff to use their local airport - that is the key. In the past, they
:19:34. > :19:42.have done so. What we have seen over the past few years is that the
:19:42. > :19:50.attraction of bris toll, or the lack of a-- Bristol or the lack of
:19:50. > :19:55.attraction of Cardiff has had people go to the other airport. Having done
:19:55. > :20:00.the turn-around, put it back into the private sector.
:20:00. > :20:05.Cardiff has some great advantages. It has a - it is a great capital
:20:05. > :20:09.city, a great runway, a maintenance facility. It has the airport it
:20:09. > :20:13.probably deserves. It has all the -- needs all the things to work
:20:13. > :20:19.together. It is no silver bullet. It will take a number of years to put
:20:19. > :20:23.Cardiff back where it needs to be. I hope that Cardiff can wean itself
:20:23. > :20:28.off Government support, ultimately. I have made comments about Cardiff
:20:28. > :20:31.being nationalised. I don't think it is right for Cardiff. I am convinced
:20:31. > :20:35.with the right management it can be successful in the future. We would
:20:35. > :20:39.not like to see the distortion by pulling passengers back with some
:20:39. > :20:42.form of Government subsidy. I hope the Welsh Government allow Cardiff
:20:42. > :20:52.to stand on its own two feet, succeed and become the airport it
:20:52. > :20:53.
:20:53. > :20:57.should be. Well, that was the view from thriving Birmingham Airport. We
:20:57. > :21:07.asked for views about the future of the airport, sad sadly neither was
:21:07. > :21:21.
:21:21. > :21:29.compare them with Birmin fwrks ham -- - Birmingham - what is going on?
:21:29. > :21:34.There has not been investment in the same way we have seen in Birmingham.
:21:34. > :21:42.Something had to ben do stop that. Is the Government right to put the
:21:42. > :21:52.money on the table and take it over? There was little alternative to
:21:52. > :21:58.putting that money in. Until about 1986, all airports were publicly
:21:58. > :22:01.owned. It is a novel thing to have privately-owned airports. Since 1986
:22:01. > :22:06.you've had more commercialisation of airports and the realisation they
:22:06. > :22:14.have to make a lot of money not just from passengers flying in and out
:22:14. > :22:19.but from what they do in a retail sense. Bristol and Cardiff have a
:22:19. > :22:23.tricky relationship. Some will say Bristol is offering a range of
:22:23. > :22:28.flights and carriers that Cardiff don't have. Therefore it cannot
:22:28. > :22:34.compete. It is investment in the first place. You need routes and
:22:34. > :22:40.investment. That is why I like the suggestion there from what we heard
:22:40. > :22:44.in Birmingham about a private-public partnership. You need to leverage in
:22:44. > :22:46.more private investment to build that new terminal, that new retail
:22:46. > :22:51.offering and develop the new routes that will attract passengers. It
:22:51. > :22:55.will not be easy. How do you convince the Ryanairs and easyJets
:22:55. > :23:04.and the rest of it - how do you convince them they need to be based
:23:04. > :23:08.in Cardiff? You will have to develop a meaningful relationship with these
:23:08. > :23:14.low-cost airports and with traditional airports -- airlines.
:23:14. > :23:20.The package will be able how we can offer low-passenger duty. If we had
:23:20. > :23:24.advanced passenger costs in Wales, if we could use that to pass off a
:23:24. > :23:30.more competitive package... effective would it be? How much of a
:23:30. > :23:33.difference would it make? It could difference would it make? It could
:23:33. > :23:37.be very important because it is a big Part of the cost of flying and
:23:37. > :23:42.airports, in particular, airlines in particular would be particularly
:23:42. > :23:51.attracted to somewhere where that cost was reduced substantially.
:23:51. > :23:57.would you say to people out there with sceptical, not to say views,
:23:57. > :24:01.that Cardiff has missed the boat? grew to two million passengers,
:24:01. > :24:05.under the previous owners. They had the right approach. They developed
:24:05. > :24:11.good links with the airlines. They made a competitive offering. I don't
:24:11. > :24:18.think it is impossible to get back to two million a year. Two million
:24:18. > :24:23.should be feasible. Bris toll is -- Bristol is five or six million.
:24:23. > :24:27.a new terminal, some new routes we could get to four million
:24:27. > :24:35.passengers, without much real investment. A lot of infrastructure
:24:35. > :24:40.and investment as well means a lot of things coming down the line. The
:24:40. > :24:45.Severn Barrage, for example. You have electrification. All this will
:24:45. > :24:52.help Cardiff expand its catchment area and make it viable to get to
:24:52. > :25:00.four million. The Department of Transport is predicting they will
:25:00. > :25:05.get to... By 2030, they forecast that will it get to 12 million. With
:25:05. > :25:10.12 million per an number we would have a �1 billion economic asset in
:25:11. > :25:16.Wales. Then we could be really motoring. Can you name a prominent
:25:16. > :25:19.Welsh scientist or engineer? There Welsh scientist or engineer? There
:25:19. > :25:24.are plenty out there. Some are even noble Prizewinners like Sir Martin
:25:24. > :25:29.Evans, but if science is to become a bigger success story, the experts
:25:29. > :25:33.say more needs to be done. Wendy is a physicist on a mission, to inspire
:25:33. > :25:43.the next generation, she believes that working with children at an
:25:43. > :25:45.
:25:45. > :25:49.early age is the key to transforming We have got to secure a supply of
:25:49. > :25:54.future generation of scientists to help the country grow. We need to
:25:54. > :25:57.make sure that everyone in Wales has a better awareness of how science
:25:57. > :26:03.works so they can make informed decisions about their lives. Put
:26:03. > :26:08.your hands up if you like science. Brilliant! Becky is a scientist. She
:26:08. > :26:13.will have lots of fun with you this afternoon, doing lots of
:26:13. > :26:16.experiments. Most primary school students love science. They are
:26:16. > :26:21.naturally curious about the world around them. A lot of research says
:26:21. > :26:25.you have to tackle them now to get their attitudes to science more
:26:25. > :26:29.positive. When they get to secondary school the attitudes change. They
:26:29. > :26:34.don't see the link between the science at school and the careers it
:26:34. > :26:36.can take them to. They get that if they want to be a doctor or a
:26:36. > :26:42.teacher they need science. They don't see the hundreds of
:26:42. > :26:51.opportunities open to them if they choose science at school. One of the
:26:51. > :26:57.problems is the stereotype of science. If you Google the image of
:26:57. > :27:02.science, you get a professor with white hair. Some are even female.
:27:02. > :27:10.This lack of positive role models for secondary schools is a real
:27:10. > :27:14.issue. People talk about this brain Cox
:27:14. > :27:22.effect, this is not really eflected in Wales.
:27:22. > :27:28.One of the problems -- Brian Cox effect, this is not really reflected
:27:28. > :27:34.in Wales. Less than 20% of students at secondary school get taught
:27:34. > :27:38.physics by a physics graduate. It is not to say other graduates can not
:27:38. > :27:41.teach it. It is to say there is a lack of passion for the subject.
:27:42. > :27:46.This can be picked up by the students. In Wales this is perhaps a
:27:46. > :27:51.particular problem. There is a big generation of physics teachers about
:27:51. > :27:57.to retire and these gaps need to be filled by new graduates.
:27:57. > :28:02.One of the things we often hear from teachers is it is so hard to fit
:28:02. > :28:12.everything into the curriculum at secondary school level. There is so
:28:12. > :28:16.much pressure for exam results that they have to bring in extra people.
:28:16. > :28:20.Wales is performing less Wales than countries of a similar size and
:28:20. > :28:24.similar background. So, it is not just a problem for the
:28:24. > :28:31.scientists, there's been research to show across the world the number of
:28:31. > :28:36.science graduates is closely linked to a very healthy economy. So,
:28:37. > :28:41.Wales, it seems we are great about having pride in our local sports
:28:41. > :28:51.stars and musicians, but we are not so good at shouting about the stars
:28:51. > :28:52.
:28:52. > :28:58.of Wales science and engineering. Culturally perhaps we should shout
:28:58. > :29:05.louder about the achievements of Welsh science. Give a big round of
:29:05. > :29:10.applause for Becky. That was Wendy Sadler with that