:00:07. > :00:14.Zbl tonight on the Walesor, does education policy in Wales make
:00:15. > :00:19.sense? How can a school class that's excellent be set for closure? Gas
:00:20. > :00:23.and electricity prices on rise again, but could Wales take the lead
:00:24. > :00:28.in tackling the big six companies. And, fighting the fight against
:00:29. > :00:38.payday loans, we meet the vicar who backs everyone to -- urges everyone
:00:39. > :00:42.to back Welsh credit unions Zbl zbl zbl good evening. Welcome to the
:00:43. > :00:46.Wales report where we examine the issues that affect lives in Wales
:00:47. > :00:50.and question some of those making the decisions Zbl tonight, we start
:00:51. > :00:55.with the challenges facing Welsh schools. It's been three years since
:00:56. > :01:00.the worldwide ranking of education systems known as PISA found that
:01:01. > :01:06.Welsh attainment levels in reading, maths and science were the worst in
:01:07. > :01:09.the UK and needed urgent attention. Local education authorities have
:01:10. > :01:16.been under huge pressure to up their game. Six are currently in special
:01:17. > :01:20.measures, including Torvine. Pontnewynydd Primary School is the
:01:21. > :01:24.only school to get an sxel lent rating by inspectors, but it's been
:01:25. > :01:29.selected for closure -- excellent rating. Helen's been listening to
:01:30. > :01:41.the concerns of parent who is seem to need a lot of convincing that
:01:42. > :01:44.Wales has the coherent strategy that it needs Zbl colour Pontnewynydd
:01:45. > :01:52.Primary lives up to its school motto - only the best is good enough. It's
:01:53. > :01:56.the only school dein this area described as excellent
:01:57. > :02:02.across-the-board Zbl it's sector leading in some areas Zbl while the
:02:03. > :02:10.school gets top marks, the local education authority is failing. One
:02:11. > :02:14.of six LEAs are currently in special measures. Many are exasperated that
:02:15. > :02:22.instead of getting the school to share its best practice,
:02:23. > :02:24.Pontnewynydd has been selected for closure Zbl nchts thank you very
:02:25. > :02:30.much for coming today... Zbl the governors have called a special
:02:31. > :02:33.meeting to voice their dismay Zbl ncht I really think they should
:02:34. > :02:38.rethink about the closure of Pontnewynydd school because it's an
:02:39. > :02:44.excellent school. The only excellent school in the borough. We can't
:02:45. > :02:48.believe they are coming out with this proposal when it's the best
:02:49. > :03:12.performing school. Gives this emthe right to shut it or propose to shut
:03:13. > :03:17.it? Because the pupil numbers here are down, it doesn't comply with a
:03:18. > :03:23.different education policy designed to reduce surplus places. Parents
:03:24. > :03:26.and governors here think that Pontnewynydd and other schools like
:03:27. > :03:30.it are falling victim to conflicting education policies. They say that
:03:31. > :03:36.strategy is muddled and that trying to find out who's responsible for
:03:37. > :03:39.different aspects of education is utterly baffling It doesn't seem to
:03:40. > :03:42.add up at the moment. There's no commune caution between the
:03:43. > :03:51.education authority, the council, the school, the governors. Who is
:03:52. > :03:57.responsible for education services in Wales and who is making these
:03:58. > :04:01.crucial decisions? At the moment, Welsh Government policy is filtered
:04:02. > :04:05.down through 22 local education authorities. Democratically
:04:06. > :04:09.accountable to you. If those authorities fail to make the grade,
:04:10. > :04:13.then they are subject to intervention by one of four
:04:14. > :04:17.Government-appointed bodies, tasked with driving up school standards,
:04:18. > :04:22.otherwise known as the regional consortia. On top of that, Education
:04:23. > :04:26.Minister Hugh Lewis recently announced a national model to
:04:27. > :04:31.improve schools. Confused? The man in charge of the body brought in to
:04:32. > :04:36.prop up the area act nones that current arrangements can appear
:04:37. > :04:39.mystifying. It must be confusing. Even coming together as a country
:04:40. > :04:44.deciding on national model so looking across four regional models
:04:45. > :04:50.that were different up to now would cause even greater confusion. We
:04:51. > :04:55.recognise that. Adding to the confusion, the Williams Review. This
:04:56. > :04:59.changing picture of, are they going to be 22 local authorities builds
:05:00. > :05:10.further complexities into what the future will look like For the pupils
:05:11. > :05:13.at Pontnewynydd and the other 73,000 children across Wales currently
:05:14. > :05:17.being schooled in areas under special measures, it's now that
:05:18. > :05:25.counts. The battle to keep this school open goes on They face an
:05:26. > :05:30.uncertain future until a final is made -- decision is made next year.
:05:31. > :05:34.Someone needs to decide quickly. Everyone keeps saying 22 authorities
:05:35. > :05:37.is too much, but nobody seems to be actually saying what the solution is
:05:38. > :05:41.or what some of the proposed solutions are. According to the
:05:42. > :05:46.parents here, only when the system itself is clear, coherent and puts
:05:47. > :05:51.excellence first will children in Wales get the education they
:05:52. > :05:57.deserve. I don't think people know who is running what and I think from
:05:58. > :06:04.a personal perspective, so long as it runs well, and my child's happy
:06:05. > :06:07.that,'s what's important to me. If they practise joined up writing in
:06:08. > :06:11.school but they don't practise joined up thinking, why don't they
:06:12. > :06:15.sit round the table and discuss education properly? Some forthright
:06:16. > :06:19.views from the parents there in Pontnewynydd. Naturally, we asked
:06:20. > :06:23.the Education Minister, Hugh Lewis to appear on the programme to answer
:06:24. > :06:26.some of those points, but he was unavailable. We received a written
:06:27. > :06:30.statement from the Welch Government saying: It cannot comment on a
:06:31. > :06:34.specific proposal from an individual local authority. It goes on to say
:06:35. > :06:39.that the interests of learners should be paramount. With that in
:06:40. > :06:43.mind, joining me now is the Director of The Association of teech rs and
:06:44. > :06:48.lecturers in Wales, Phillip Dixon. Do you blame parents for being
:06:49. > :06:53.concerned? Not at all. It's a very confusing situation and the
:06:54. > :06:59.commentator who said they need to do joined up thinking is spot on.
:07:00. > :07:06.What's gone wrong? A lot of it rests with the local authority. There was
:07:07. > :07:09.a lot of drift and Duncan Smither in Government policy, we weren't clear
:07:10. > :07:17.what should be the top Brightonties. Those things are getting better but
:07:18. > :07:23.there's still confusion for teachers and for pupils. How soon should they
:07:24. > :07:26.reduce the local authorities? Much fewer than 22 and as soon as
:07:27. > :07:30.possible. The frustration the parents that got there, I share
:07:31. > :07:33.that, we have been talking about there for over a decade. Let's do
:07:34. > :07:37.something about it and reduce the number and get to it a sensible
:07:38. > :07:41.number. Is that to do with confusion in terms of the number or to do with
:07:42. > :07:45.confusion about the quality of work and the quality of supervision from
:07:46. > :07:50.the local authorities themselves? Are they underperforming?
:07:51. > :07:54.Definitely. We see six have been put into special measures. We are a
:07:55. > :08:00.small country, about three million people live here, we have 22 local
:08:01. > :08:05.authorities when really if you look across the border to England, we
:08:06. > :08:14.should have three or four at most. When there is a battle, we are in
:08:15. > :08:17.that climate, does what is happening in Pontnewynydd make sense? Not
:08:18. > :08:23.initially because you have an excellent school there. Up to see
:08:24. > :08:27.that practice spread out and amalling plated. -- amalgamated.
:08:28. > :08:31.There is a confusion about the key priorities and what the Government
:08:32. > :08:35.needs be setting to do that and policing and enforcing it and making
:08:36. > :08:40.sure the 22 authorities are following the line. What would you
:08:41. > :08:45.like the Education Minister to do? How clear and coherent could the
:08:46. > :08:51.strategy be and something that is not ten years in the making? It's to
:08:52. > :08:55.reiterate what we have seen before, the key priorities are literacy and
:08:56. > :08:59.numeracy and insisting that's filtered through all policies, so
:09:00. > :09:04.when schools are judged on whether they are failing or not, when we see
:09:05. > :09:09.proposals of school closures that is the criteria that are used. Do your
:09:10. > :09:14.colleagues accept some responsibility for underperformance
:09:15. > :09:18.where it happens? Is there an issue with standards of teaching in Ways
:09:19. > :09:23.which is possibly a bigger problem than say in Scotland or England --
:09:24. > :09:27.Wales? I don't think there's a difference in standard of teaching.
:09:28. > :09:30.There's always one or two teachers that shouldn't perhaps be in the
:09:31. > :09:35.profession, we accept that. The real problem has been the confusion
:09:36. > :09:38.created by having 22 local authorities, createded from the top
:09:39. > :09:41.by the Government over the last ten years, where it's not given the
:09:42. > :09:46.clear message. That's the problem. I remember talking to a head teach er
:09:47. > :09:50.who said he's had a different priority and he's been ahead for
:09:51. > :09:53.eight years. Which can't go on like that. We need a clear direction that
:09:54. > :09:58.these are the things that matter for the next ten years I'm asking the
:09:59. > :10:04.question because we are facing a new set of PISA report results. Let us
:10:05. > :10:08.hope they are improved. Even if they are, there's still a gap that Wales
:10:09. > :10:13.has to make up. I'm wondering again, is it very easy for teachers to say
:10:14. > :10:17.it's nothing to do with us, it's all to do with strategy and the bigger
:10:18. > :10:21.picture, shouldn't the politicians be accepting more of the
:10:22. > :10:26.responsibility for the fact that numeracy, literacy is such a big
:10:27. > :10:34.problem in Wales? I share your hope but I fear the PISA results will be
:10:35. > :10:41.worse this time around. Teachers are very concerned because they want the
:10:42. > :10:45.best possible outcomelets -- outcomes. The vast majority of
:10:46. > :10:49.teachers want to deliver for pupils, but they need the resources to do
:10:50. > :10:53.that. We have seen chronic underfunding and we have had this
:10:54. > :11:11.drift and dither in policy until very recently. Perve- you -- thank
:11:12. > :11:19.you very much. British Gas agonised over the issue of rising prices How
:11:20. > :11:24.can the profits be fair when people can't afford to pay for their
:11:25. > :11:28.energy? The reason it's fair is because if I don't make a 5% profit
:11:29. > :11:33.in my business, I can't afford to continue employing my 20,000 people
:11:34. > :11:37.who're equally members of society in Britain and I can't afford top
:11:38. > :11:42.operate the company. It's a fraction of what mobile phone companies make
:11:43. > :11:46.and not as much as supermarkets make. Some of the evidence in
:11:47. > :11:49.Parliament yesterday. In Wales, we have the distinction of having the
:11:50. > :11:56.highest average electricity prices in the UK despite producing more
:11:57. > :12:03.than we use. The average dual fuel bill is ?14 100 and -- ?1400. Is
:12:04. > :12:11.there a specifically Welsh solution to the problem? An our ya that
:12:12. > :12:19.supplies to some businesses and homes is a nonprofit company. Some
:12:20. > :12:25.politicians sthawingt a version of this model could be the future for
:12:26. > :12:31.electricity generation in Wales. Here is how the model works. Since
:12:32. > :12:37.the water industry was privatised in 1989, Welsh Water existed in a Faw
:12:38. > :12:40.guise and forms -- few guises and forms. Chris Jones, the current
:12:41. > :12:48.Chief Executive, went away and decided to set up a company set up
:12:49. > :12:51.to own, manage and finance Welsh Water essentially as we deliver
:12:52. > :12:55.water and waste water services to around three million customers
:12:56. > :12:58.across most of Wales and the adjoining parts of England. The
:12:59. > :13:03.company itself is a company limited by guarantee. It's unique in that we
:13:04. > :13:07.don't have any shareholders, any financial surpluses that we have can
:13:08. > :13:12.be directed back into the company for the benefit of customers. That's
:13:13. > :13:17.obviously evidence not only in reduced bills, and we are looking to
:13:18. > :13:22.reduce bills in real terms by around 6% between 2010 and 2015. The model
:13:23. > :13:29.works because we have the best credit ratings across the utility
:13:30. > :13:33.sector in the UK. It delivers for customers Could Wales take the lead
:13:34. > :13:37.therefore in changing the energy market? Joining me now from
:13:38. > :13:42.Westminster, the former Welsh Secretary, former Energy Minister,
:13:43. > :13:48.Peter Hain and in Bangor, there's the newly elected assembly member.
:13:49. > :13:54.Peter, to you first of all is. The problem that the power to change
:13:55. > :13:59.energy policy is not here in Wales? At the present time, the problem is,
:14:00. > :14:03.this is a cartel of big energy companies, international ones, that
:14:04. > :14:11.are rigging the markets, and we saw MPs told yesterday by a small energy
:14:12. > :14:15.supplier who's head, Steven Fitzpatrick, said he's buying
:14:16. > :14:20.electricity at a lower wholesale price than two years ago. Yet we
:14:21. > :14:25.have seen 10% increases over the last year on top of increases in
:14:26. > :14:29.previous years and actually, to consumers and wholesale prices have
:14:30. > :14:36.been going down. Wholesale prices fell last year by under 2%. Yet
:14:37. > :14:41.energy prices have shot up by nearly 10%. This is, in a market that's
:14:42. > :14:45.wrong, Wales is suffering from it, my constituents, some of them can't
:14:46. > :14:48.heat their homes any more because otherwise they wouldn't be able to
:14:49. > :14:54.feed themselves. So there is an issue about a Welsh dimension, but
:14:55. > :14:59.frankly this is a UK-wide problem that needs to be fixed at a UK
:15:00. > :15:04.level? Do you buy that I don't. Because what we have seen in the
:15:05. > :15:08.face of this cartel is a complete failure by successive UK Governments
:15:09. > :15:11.to deal with the issue which is that people are being forced to pay over
:15:12. > :15:16.the odds because the big six are being allowed to get away with it.
:15:17. > :15:21.We are saying that within the powers that we have already in Wales, we
:15:22. > :15:28.can set up a not for dividend company, such as the model that's
:15:29. > :15:32.current that would work in the interests of the people of Wales
:15:33. > :15:36.that should be allowed to get the energy at a fair price that. Can't
:15:37. > :15:40.happen under the current system. You look at the broad picture though,
:15:41. > :15:44.both of you, you have specific interests given what you represent
:15:45. > :15:48.and your policy interests in the pasts. Peter where renewable energy
:15:49. > :15:54.is concerned, are we at the position where if the Welsh Government had
:15:55. > :15:59.the power to do it, we could push ahead with some renewable energy? I
:16:00. > :16:04.would like to think so. Some of the decisions made in Wales, not just by
:16:05. > :16:07.the Welsh Government, but by local authorities, have been negative as
:16:08. > :16:13.far as renewable energy's concerned. Such as? Objections to windfarms for
:16:14. > :16:18.example. I'm not in favour of them carpeting the whole of Wales'
:16:19. > :16:22.countryside and hills, but I'm in favour of combatting climate change.
:16:23. > :16:28.In the recent turmoil in our weather, that's wreaking havoc and
:16:29. > :16:32.imposing huge costs. You need more clean green energy. The Severn
:16:33. > :16:35.Barrage is my favourite option. But the problem is what you do about the
:16:36. > :16:40.rigged electricity market and beyond that, I would like to see Wales
:16:41. > :16:45.leading the way. Within that picture, you didn't mention plans
:16:46. > :16:51.for nuclear energy which are important in Wales as well. Do you
:16:52. > :16:55.welcome the plans, Peter, or not? I welcome nuclear as a way of
:16:56. > :16:59.replacing key power stations, including nuclear ones reaching the
:17:00. > :17:05.end of their life and we have a problem about keeping the lights on.
:17:06. > :17:09.Actually, the Hinkley nuclear power stations, enormously more costly
:17:10. > :17:14.than the Severn Barrage for instance, and you could build a
:17:15. > :17:19.Severn Barrage at a much cheaper price, privately financed and
:17:20. > :17:24.produce electricity over its lime time that's half or three quarters
:17:25. > :17:28.cheaper. That's what I think we should do. Give than cost, what
:17:29. > :17:34.would you say to the voters that says to you, why are you seemingly
:17:35. > :17:39.happenty to accept that on your doorstep which it's incredibly
:17:40. > :17:43.expensive? It's interesting to hear Peter's comments. There's not much
:17:44. > :17:48.difference in our opinions and it shows that every political party is
:17:49. > :17:53.having to deal with the pros and cons of the near power. I won't
:17:54. > :17:58.stand in the way of Peter Hain eats comments. There is an issue there in
:17:59. > :18:02.that we have spent decades trying to find a consix on that. Perhaps what
:18:03. > :18:07.we'd like to do is concentrate on things we can do now. Remind us,
:18:08. > :18:11.because you side stepped the nuclear issue there, what is your policy
:18:12. > :18:18.there? Our policy is clear, because we have real concerns within the
:18:19. > :18:23.party, buttel I'll tell you one thing -- but I'll tell you one
:18:24. > :18:27.thing, people are concerned about issues of cost, safety. On the other
:18:28. > :18:32.hand, you have issues of economy. We come to different balances. I say,
:18:33. > :18:36.for my constituents on Anglesey excited about the prospect of jobs,
:18:37. > :18:40.that is something we can work with as part of, as we remember, UK
:18:41. > :18:44.energy policy, whilst telling the other people on the other sides of
:18:45. > :18:52.the argument yes, of course, your concerns are valid. I agree with, as
:18:53. > :19:00.Peter Hain does, agreez with many of the concerns. -- agrees. He's made a
:19:01. > :19:03.good point there. I want to add one other thing directed at David
:19:04. > :19:09.Cameron. He's trying, as is the Chancellor, to cut the subsidy for
:19:10. > :19:14.renewable energy. It amounts, together with social subsidies, to
:19:15. > :19:18.insulate poor people's houses and pensioner's homes and so on, which
:19:19. > :19:23.is absolutely vital with sky high bills that. Accounts, greej energy,
:19:24. > :19:30.plus the social cost, for under 10% of our bills. The big companies have
:19:31. > :19:36.put up prices by 10%, so the Prime Minister, in seeking to attack green
:19:37. > :19:40.energy is barking up entirely the wrong tree.- both very much The
:19:41. > :19:45.rising price of energy is one of the main reasons given by people for
:19:46. > :19:50.falling into debt. No surprise, say experts, that more and more people
:19:51. > :19:53.are turning to day day loans, the controversial form of lending which
:19:54. > :19:57.often carries sky high interest rates. The Archbishop of Canterbury
:19:58. > :20:02.has already declared war on the payday loan companies. One of his
:20:03. > :20:07.colleagues, Brian Pippin, says the answer is clear, there are 70,000
:20:08. > :20:15.members of credit unions in Wales, that number is expected to double by
:20:16. > :20:26.2020. He chairs the Gateway community and says it's a model for
:20:27. > :20:35.Paul of Wales. -- model for all of Wales. The church for some of us is
:20:36. > :20:42.a moral compass, our Sunday mornings, our sense of being, our
:20:43. > :20:49.financial guide. Back in 1999, the church in Wales made four annual
:20:50. > :20:53.grants of ?15,000 to part fund the credit union officer working out of
:20:54. > :21:01.the Cooperative centre. That money helped to kick start many of the
:21:02. > :21:07.credit unions in Wales Three years earlier in 19let 6, myself and other
:21:08. > :21:11.church members and members of other congregations in Pontypool and of
:21:12. > :21:17.this community, helped set up gateway credit union here in
:21:18. > :21:24.Pontypool. We started with just 22 members and now we have 2,500
:21:25. > :21:30.members. We have 12 collection points and three offices in the high
:21:31. > :21:35.streets around the counties During that time, we have lent millions of
:21:36. > :21:42.pounds to the financially vulnerable.
:21:43. > :21:49.It was started to have some means of offering an alternative to the
:21:50. > :21:58.doorstep lenders and loan sharks that were very prevalent in the
:21:59. > :22:02.early 90s. Morning... Many, many years ago, we did go to one of these
:22:03. > :22:06.companies that would come and collect the money with high interest
:22:07. > :22:16.rates. I'd never go back to that and I never want to I'm here for my son
:22:17. > :22:20.today. Basically, he's only 21, he's finding it very difficult to get
:22:21. > :22:26.credit. Really, I'm just trying to instil into him basically being able
:22:27. > :22:31.to manage his money. When people are desperate to pay the money, to pay a
:22:32. > :22:36.bill, tax the car or to cover an emergency, the signs in this window
:22:37. > :22:46.seem to give the simple and quick answer. A A beinger attraction is
:22:47. > :22:52.the bead at which you can get the money. You can go online, 15-20
:22:53. > :23:00.minutes, the money can be in your account. -- a big attraction is that
:23:01. > :23:05.the speed at which you can get the money. It can become a fabric of
:23:06. > :23:12.society. Payday loans depend on desperation. Isn't it time we
:23:13. > :23:17.inVoyced in our -- invested in our credit unions so they survive and
:23:18. > :23:26.thrive to kill off this exploitive industry?
:23:27. > :23:36.Joining me now is Dr Barry Morgan, Archbishop of Wales, mentioned in
:23:37. > :23:40.that report. And Russell Hamblin-Boon. Welcome to you both
:23:41. > :23:45.and thank you for joining us. Archbishop, credit unions are a sign
:23:46. > :23:49.of desperation? Not at all. Payday loan companies are a sign of
:23:50. > :23:54.desperation because people go to them because they need money
:23:55. > :24:00.desperately. Either for food or for some essential equipment for the
:24:01. > :24:06.house, or to pay off other loans. Consequently, that's the desperate
:24:07. > :24:11.default point. It seems to me that credit unions provide an alternative
:24:12. > :24:15.because they don't charge anything like the rate. It's 2% at the
:24:16. > :24:20.minute, it will go up to 3% next year. If you take out loans from
:24:21. > :24:27.payday company, you can be paying 3, 4, 5,000% interest and very often,
:24:28. > :24:34.people just go to the wall. What is the place, Russell, as you see it,
:24:35. > :24:37.of payday loan companies in the role of financial services? I don't
:24:38. > :24:42.disagree with the Archbishop that things are difficult for people.
:24:43. > :24:47.Prices are going up, salaries are not rising. People are financially
:24:48. > :24:50.stressed. A short-term loan from a reputable lender, the type of
:24:51. > :24:55.businesses that I represent that belong to my trade association, may
:24:56. > :24:59.be able to help people this that situation. Equally, they may be able
:25:00. > :25:04.to get. Help from a credit union. The difference, I would say, is that
:25:05. > :25:10.with a short-term loan, while you have to go through all of the checks
:25:11. > :25:15.and measures, as if you were applying for a credit card or
:25:16. > :25:19.looking for finance for a sew far for -- sofa for Christmas or
:25:20. > :25:23.something, they may be able to get the money to you more conveniently
:25:24. > :25:28.and quickly. We don't charge thousands of percent interest. The
:25:29. > :25:34.cost is explained in paoundz pence and it's on average ?25 per ?100
:25:35. > :25:40.that you borrow. Which is still pretty significant? It's a more
:25:41. > :25:45.expensive way of financing, but for many people, it isn't an option. For
:25:46. > :25:51.many people, it's a convenient and safe way of them managing their
:25:52. > :25:57.wider budgetary expenses. That is a point, isn't it, that if the company
:25:58. > :26:01.are clear about the charges, if they are very open about the way they
:26:02. > :26:04.bring in their money and given the fact that they are in the
:26:05. > :26:08.profit-making business, what is wrong with it? When you are
:26:09. > :26:12.desperate, you don't think of the implications. 25%, to begin with, is
:26:13. > :26:17.a huge rate of interest. The trouble is, of course, people can't pay back
:26:18. > :26:22.the capital sum to they are paying interest on interest and on the
:26:23. > :26:27.capital sum. Why I'm in favour of credit union is, that although it
:26:28. > :26:31.may be complicated to join it, if it became more respectable in this
:26:32. > :26:35.country, as it is in Ireland and America, where they are part of the
:26:36. > :26:39.fabric of society in a way thatter in not in mainland Britain, then I
:26:40. > :26:44.think more people would pay into them and we'd be able to help more
:26:45. > :26:49.people to get short-term loans at a vastly reduced rate of progress. The
:26:50. > :26:53.Archbishop of Canterbury famously said he wanted to put one of these
:26:54. > :27:00.firms out of business, the firms that you represent. Given the fact
:27:01. > :27:03.that we are talk competition here, credit unions would be competing for
:27:04. > :27:09.business. Would you not see them as a threat? I met with the
:27:10. > :27:16.Archbishop's team of staff to talk through the campaign to see if there
:27:17. > :27:21.was anything that we can do to help. They immediate it very clear that
:27:22. > :27:27.the campaign is not an anti-payday lender cam Pape, and we fully
:27:28. > :27:32.support that. One way perhaps we might be able to move the campaign
:27:33. > :27:37.forward is to talk to the businesses I represent, talk to me, rather than
:27:38. > :27:42.attack us, to ask us, how could we do this better, what are you doing
:27:43. > :27:50.that we could replicate in order to improve our business. Part of your
:27:51. > :27:54.case is attacking snell These are the positive advantages of joining
:27:55. > :27:59.the union, rather than borrowing money from payday companies. I
:28:00. > :28:02.recognise that perhaps some of the companies represented by our friend
:28:03. > :28:13.are very respectable ones, but there are lots of payday loan sharks out
:28:14. > :28:17.there who charge interest rates of 4-5,000% and they are grossly
:28:18. > :28:23.immoral. You are say you don't represent those? Certainly not
:28:24. > :28:27.disreputable businesses and scrupulous lenders. A lot of people
:28:28. > :28:30.whoer turned down by reputable lenders might actually end up in the
:28:31. > :28:34.hands of those people, rathered than going to a dread union and perhaps
:28:35. > :28:38.there's something we can do to work together to make sure the right
:28:39. > :28:41.people are using the credit unions, as well as not having the option if
:28:42. > :28:45.they want to of taking out a short-term loan through a payday
:28:46. > :28:49.lender. That would be wonderful. If that were to happen and we could
:28:50. > :28:55.help more people, no-one would be more pleased than I Thank you both
:28:56. > :29:02.very much That is it for this week. Any comments or questions, please
:29:03. > :29:09.get in touch. You can e-mail us and we are on Twitter too. We'll be back
:29:10. > :29:13.next Wednesday. Until then, thanks for watching. Good night.