:00:09. > :00:12.Tonight on the Wales report. Local authorities are trying to balance
:00:13. > :00:16.the books. Budgets are being cut but should the the biggest count be in
:00:17. > :00:20.the number of we'll shall councils? The clean-up continues after the
:00:21. > :00:26.storms that batter the Welsh coastline but who will be picking up
:00:27. > :00:33.the Bill and Sir Martin Evans says it is time to promote more interest
:00:34. > :00:42.in science. Stay with us for the Wales Report. Good evening, welcome
:00:43. > :00:45.back to the Wales Report, where we consider issues that affect the
:00:46. > :00:48.people of Wales and question some of those making the decisions. On
:00:49. > :00:51.tonight's programme: Welsh local authorities are facing record budget
:00:52. > :00:53.cuts. They're counting the cash available for services such as
:00:54. > :00:56.refuse collections, libraries, and leisure centres. They're trying to
:00:57. > :00:59.balance their books but some possible answers are service cuts,
:01:00. > :01:03.job losses and a possible rise in council tax. A commission appointed
:01:04. > :01:07.by the Welsh Government on the future delivery of public services
:01:08. > :01:10.is about to report its findings. And the question is now being asked
:01:11. > :01:14.openly, instead of focusing on the budgets on 22 individual councils -
:01:15. > :01:18.should we be talking about a radical reshaping of Welsh local government?
:01:19. > :01:29.Helen Callaghan reports. Communities in uproar have become a
:01:30. > :01:32.common sight, as people battle to save the services they cherish from
:01:33. > :01:38.council cuts. But in an effort to minimise public
:01:39. > :01:41.anger, and get them onside, local authorities have been reaching out
:01:42. > :01:49.to people, through public consultation on an unprecedented
:01:50. > :01:53.scale. Good evening. I'm the Chief Executive fted Council. The
:01:54. > :02:00.residents of Monmouthshire have been invited here to this school to share
:02:01. > :02:04.their views with Council bosses about proposed cuts to services,
:02:05. > :02:08.deliver them differently and put up council tax. We are here today with
:02:09. > :02:11.some proposals we want to discuss with you. However we still have a
:02:12. > :02:15.big journey yet. They want the public to steer them in the right
:02:16. > :02:19.direction. Are you prepared to go even higher on a council tax rise,
:02:20. > :02:24.or do you want us to look for more cuts to balance the budget? But what
:02:25. > :02:30.one person feels is important, another does not. And agreement is
:02:31. > :02:33.extremely hard to achieve. We all should be helping each other, not
:02:34. > :02:38.one certain section should be cut. There are going to be cuts, clearly.
:02:39. > :02:43.What are some of the openingses? Are there any real options? But there is
:02:44. > :02:47.one harsh truth that everyone in this room understands. Monmouthshire
:02:48. > :02:50.county council has it make more than ?20 million worth of savings over
:02:51. > :02:57.the next four years and the council is not alone.
:02:58. > :03:02.Wales '22 local authorities are embroiled in a number crunching
:03:03. > :03:12.nightmare. It's estimated that selectively they'll be faced with a
:03:13. > :03:16.short fall of nearly 460 million and that 20,000 council jobs will go in
:03:17. > :03:20.Wales in the next five years. I witnessed the gloomy realities
:03:21. > :03:25.confronting councils first hand when we filmed councillors and officials
:03:26. > :03:30.debating Monmouthshire's proposed spending plans We still have a gap
:03:31. > :03:33.of over ?1 million. It is disappointing after so much
:03:34. > :03:37.consultation and scrutiny and work by officers that we still have a
:03:38. > :03:41.budget funding gap at this stage, only weeks before we have to
:03:42. > :03:45.announce what our final budget proposals are. Monmouthshire and the
:03:46. > :03:50.other local authorities across Wales have until early March to get their
:03:51. > :03:53.spending plans for the next financial year signed off. The Wales
:03:54. > :03:59.Report has been speaking to all of our councils to get a better idea of
:04:00. > :04:04.which services are under threat. Across Wales, councils are
:04:05. > :04:13.predicting a collective cut of ?30 million to social care budge etsds.
:04:14. > :04:21.19 day centres may close. 35 public libraries could shut. . Some areas
:04:22. > :04:25.may see a 2,000% increase to fees for leisure services. This is just a
:04:26. > :04:29.small fraction of what we can expect to be hit. With some communities
:04:30. > :04:32.also facing council tax hikes of up to 5%.
:04:33. > :04:37.Local Government finances and those behind the book-balancing are under
:04:38. > :04:42.the spotlight, like never before and council leaders, like Peter Fox are
:04:43. > :04:45.feeling the strain. It really hurts when you have been
:04:46. > :04:48.working hard for your communities and you have to try to deliver the
:04:49. > :04:52.tough messages about how you are going to have to change things,
:04:53. > :04:55.which may affect some people. I hope people understand that what we are
:04:56. > :05:00.trying to do, is find the very best way forward in their interests.
:05:01. > :05:10.But the impending assault on services, has sparked fierce attacks
:05:11. > :05:18.against local councils. CHANTS OF SHAME ON YOU And there are calls for
:05:19. > :05:22.a radical overhaul of how many there are. Last Government a commission
:05:23. > :05:25.was set up to review the way devolved public services are run and
:05:26. > :05:29.it suggest improvements. Its findings are due to be published
:05:30. > :05:32.later this month and it is widely believed it'll recommend radically
:05:33. > :05:37.reducing the number of local authorities we have here in Wales.
:05:38. > :05:41.For now, most council bosses are keeping their thoughts on this
:05:42. > :05:46.controversial issue private. But some did take to the Wales Report
:05:47. > :05:50.anonymously. Three council leaders told me they support a reduction of
:05:51. > :05:55.the 22 local authorities we now have. But four are against it.
:05:56. > :06:01.The Welsh Government has ruled out reorganisation, before the #2 2016
:06:02. > :06:04.Assembly elections. Bsh 2016. But while any shake-up could be some
:06:05. > :06:07.years away, there are calls for decisions to be made quickly. If
:06:08. > :06:11.there is going to be a reorganisation and it is put off
:06:12. > :06:15.into the future, leaving councils then to languish on death row for
:06:16. > :06:19.the next five or six years would be a huge problem. So if they are going
:06:20. > :06:23.to do t I think the feeling across local government, is to get on with
:06:24. > :06:28.it. And talk of reorganisation is seen by some as badly-timed and
:06:29. > :06:31.inappropriate. It is not the panacea to the probss that local authorities
:06:32. > :06:36.are facing in Wales. -- to the problems. We must not take our eye
:06:37. > :06:39.off the ball. We need to preserve and keep pushing forward and
:06:40. > :06:43.preserve in good, high-quality services. I don't want a distraction
:06:44. > :06:50.from that. It's estimated that reorganisation would cost ?200
:06:51. > :06:54.million and lead to 15,000 council job losses. While that would be a
:06:55. > :07:01.tortuous process, some feel it could be a force for good. Michael Tricky
:07:02. > :07:06.is Director of Wales Public Services, #20e 25, an independent
:07:07. > :07:09.think-tank based at Cardiff Business School, conducting research into the
:07:10. > :07:14.long-term future of public service delivery. A lot of this depends on
:07:15. > :07:18.how you approach T if you approach it neglectively and defensively,
:07:19. > :07:23.what you will get is negative and defensive results. But I think that
:07:24. > :07:27.- I sense across local Government in Wales and elsewhere, that there is a
:07:28. > :07:31.real sense of the challenge, the scale of the challenge ahead, the
:07:32. > :07:34.scale of change that they need and perhaps the sense of the opportunity
:07:35. > :07:39.that local Government and organisations, a fresh start, fresh
:07:40. > :07:43.beginnings, working towards new horizons, that could be very
:07:44. > :07:49.stimulating and exciting. REPORTER: So, by working with the community --
:07:50. > :07:53.So by working with the community heapfully this is a which to
:07:54. > :07:56.sustain... But here at this public meeting, people aren't working about
:07:57. > :08:01.reorganisations and whether there are too many councils, they are
:08:02. > :08:04.concerned about council tax and the fate of services they depend on
:08:05. > :08:08.Everyone pays council tax. If they start charging for the library,
:08:09. > :08:12.youngsters will not use T they'll not have that access. It is a scary
:08:13. > :08:17.situation. Everyone has financial difficulties at home and are worried
:08:18. > :08:20.about jobs and different things. But while communities have come out in
:08:21. > :08:24.force to fight for their local services, it is unclear whether they
:08:25. > :08:29.would take to the streets if it was their entire council facing
:08:30. > :08:35.extinction. Well that was Helen Callaghan
:08:36. > :08:39.reporting. Joining me is Jeff Jones, former leader of Bridgend council
:08:40. > :08:42.and now a leader government consultant. This Williams
:08:43. > :08:45.commission, what are you expecting? We are expecting they will redues
:08:46. > :08:52.the number of authorities be down to about is 1 is the rumour T could be
:08:53. > :08:59.less or slightly more. -- down to about 11 is the rumour. What do you
:09:00. > :09:02.think? I would go smaller. The production of the prop is the easy
:09:03. > :09:06.bit. The bit we should be discussing is what we expect the new local
:09:07. > :09:10.Government sows tomb to deliver and what is the ideal type of authority
:09:11. > :09:14.to deliver that system. We are not debating this. That's the danger.
:09:15. > :09:19.The previous Tory organisations were driven by the Conservatives on
:09:20. > :09:23.political expediency. They wanted to destroy Labour local government in
:09:24. > :09:25.Wales, they weren't interested in what happened afterwards because
:09:26. > :09:29.they haven't got a big political hold. The big time this time is we
:09:30. > :09:32.have an Assembly controlled by the Labour Party and a local Government
:09:33. > :09:35.controlled by the Labour Party. So there is real politics in this. It
:09:36. > :09:39.isn't just staff who will lose their jobs at the WLGA. It is councillors
:09:40. > :09:43.who will lose their position. We have the politics to look at and the
:09:44. > :09:46.costs. There will be huge costs upfront. Even if, in the long-term
:09:47. > :09:56.there are savings, those savings might not come about until year, 6 -
:09:57. > :10:00.year 6 or 7. From day #1, if you have 11 authorities, then 11 senior
:10:01. > :10:04.management teams will go and they'll in the go without a load of money to
:10:05. > :10:08.compensate the fact of losing their jobs. You mention the Labour
:10:09. > :10:11.dimension which is central to some of this. Is the political will
:10:12. > :10:15.there, from the First Minister and colleagues to drive through this
:10:16. > :10:19.kind of radical change? They make the rhetoric. They have all said
:10:20. > :10:25.nobody supports the present structure. But the contributors was
:10:26. > :10:29.entirely right. The worst thing to happen is on Monday is for everyone
:10:30. > :10:32.to say - thank you, Sir Paul and the commission, we'll look at it and
:10:33. > :10:35.next year we are still looking at T the result will be a disaster for
:10:36. > :10:38.the local Government. They are getting on with the cuts. The morale
:10:39. > :10:42.will go right to the floor. What worries me is that delivery goes out
:10:43. > :10:47.the window. What is forego then about is the actual person who needs
:10:48. > :10:52.the service. -- forgotten about. We are all aware of those Deaners,
:10:53. > :10:56.ultimately, though, Jeff, are you of the view that the present system of
:10:57. > :11:00.22 authorities in he Wales is not fit for purpose. It doesn't make
:11:01. > :11:04.sense in this post-devolution age? It has never made sense. This is a
:11:05. > :11:10.big step we need to discuss and talk about and not be carried away next
:11:11. > :11:14.week by a report that has been held up. We could produce it. This
:11:15. > :11:18.morning I wrote down my idea of Wales, four or five authorities, I
:11:19. > :11:22.did it in five seconds. It is easy. The hard bit is the politics and
:11:23. > :11:27.implementation of what comes out. In five years are we going to see a
:11:28. > :11:30.different structure of local government in Wales? Possibly if the
:11:31. > :11:37.politicians in the Bay have the will. Their past record suggests
:11:38. > :11:41.they push things over, or to use another Welsh phrase, they try to
:11:42. > :11:45.kick for touch rather than score the try. In this one the ball is in
:11:46. > :11:48.their hands. Do they wanted to do it? If they do, they have to say
:11:49. > :11:51.within a short period - we are implementing the Williams'
:11:52. > :11:55.commission, we are going to find the money for it and set up elections
:11:56. > :11:58.for the shadow authorities as soon as possible, otherwise as Steve
:11:59. > :12:02.Thomas says - authorities on death row will not deliver the services
:12:03. > :12:09.all of us want. Jeff, good of you to come in. And local authority budgets
:12:10. > :12:12.have come under even greater pressure in the past month, as
:12:13. > :12:16.councils assess the cost of storm damage caused by the high tides and
:12:17. > :12:19.gale-force winds that have battered the Welsh coastline. This winter has
:12:20. > :12:22.seen some of the worst weather Wales has suffered in over 20 years -
:12:23. > :12:25.storms have caused millions of pounds worth of damage. Some roads
:12:26. > :12:28.in Pembrokeshire were damaged, including the route along Amroth
:12:29. > :12:32.seafront, which was partially washed away. Aberystwyth was perhaps the
:12:33. > :12:35.worst- hit area, with extensive damage to the famous Victorian
:12:36. > :12:38.seafront and promendade. With current cost estimates rising to
:12:39. > :12:42.millions, the question is where the money is going to come from.
:12:43. > :12:47.Ceredigion Council's Deputy Leader, Ray Quant, had this plea for the
:12:48. > :12:51.Welsh Government. What we will actually be looking for now is
:12:52. > :12:56.support from the Welsh Government for the actual rest tors of putting
:12:57. > :13:00.it back to where it was but in actual fact what we should be
:13:01. > :13:03.looking for, at this moment in time, is not necessary just to have
:13:04. > :13:09.restoration but to be making improvements. The Welsh Secretary,
:13:10. > :13:12.David Jones, has said that we're unlikely to see any additional funds
:13:13. > :13:15.from the Treasury, or from the EU, to help with clean-up costs. And the
:13:16. > :13:18.Chair of the Assembly's Environment and Sustainability Committee, Lord
:13:19. > :13:25.Elis Thomas, is calling for a more coherent approach to managing the
:13:26. > :13:29.coastline. Part of the review now, a stat statutory be be responsibility
:13:30. > :13:35.for Natural Resources Wales and for Welsh Government to deliver, that
:13:36. > :13:40.review must look at the whole area in the round. Afterall we are a
:13:41. > :13:47.country with massive coastline. If we look at the risk threat to our
:13:48. > :13:52.population, about 225,000 of the residents of Wales are at some sort
:13:53. > :13:59.of risk, one way or another, through flooding. And, therefore, this must
:14:00. > :14:02.be a priority for any government. O Joining me now is the Minister for
:14:03. > :14:06.Natural Resources, Labour's Alun Davies. Thank you for coming in.
:14:07. > :14:09.Have you worked out where the money is coming from to help people who
:14:10. > :14:13.have suffered so much damage? At the moment we are looking at assessing
:14:14. > :14:16.what the damage is. We know there is superficial damage. We know there is
:14:17. > :14:21.damage that is to be cleared up and cleaned up and that work is ongoing,
:14:22. > :14:24.but then there is the more substantial structural damage we
:14:25. > :14:26.need to look at, damage to the infrastructure. At the moment we are
:14:27. > :14:29.assessing where we are with different local authorities. We have
:14:30. > :14:33.spoken to all the local authorities dealing with these issues, and we
:14:34. > :14:36.will be in a position in the next week or so, to take decisions on
:14:37. > :14:39.those matters, where we need to make short-term investment and where we
:14:40. > :14:46.need to make repairs and then, where we need to focus hard on the long
:14:47. > :14:49.term. So where Ceredigion are saying - we are looking to the Welsh
:14:50. > :14:53.Government for help, you will be providing that. I met Ceredigion
:14:54. > :14:56.when I was there after the storms. Our officials have been working
:14:57. > :15:00.together since then and we are putting to the an assessment of with
:15:01. > :15:04.Ceredigion is and we will then be looking at how we provide the
:15:05. > :15:08.support. I think they did a marvellous job of responding to this
:15:09. > :15:11.and the council there have worked extremely hard in responding to what
:15:12. > :15:15.was an extraordinary emergency on that weekend. What we have got to do
:15:16. > :15:19.now, is to ensure we work together to rebuild the Prom, to clear up the
:15:20. > :15:22.damage that has been done immediately, but we also need to
:15:23. > :15:27.look at the long term. One of the conversations I had with Ceredigion
:15:28. > :15:30.was about long-term sea defences for Aberystwyth and the town itself.
:15:31. > :15:34.What you have done there is underline the scale of the ambition,
:15:35. > :15:38.but that does have bidgetry implications as well. When you are
:15:39. > :15:41.look ing looking at sea defences and looking at responding to the
:15:42. > :15:47.challenge of climate change, that's a lot of money. It is. I'm wondering
:15:48. > :15:51.again is the Welsh Government in a position to do that? Your own
:15:52. > :15:56.department has its own share of budget cuts, ?20 million-plus, so
:15:57. > :16:04.you will not be able to foot this bill. I'm proect itting the flood
:16:05. > :16:09.defences of my budget. I'm looking at protecting nearly one quarter of
:16:10. > :16:12.a billion pounds of investment in Wales during the lifetime of this
:16:13. > :16:15.Assembly term and we'll continue with that investment. I want to look
:16:16. > :16:19.at how we can bring in new investment. We are talking to the UK
:16:20. > :16:23.Government on a regular basis, most days at the moment, about how we can
:16:24. > :16:27.work together on this. We are also looking towards Europe to see if we
:16:28. > :16:31.can put together an application for additional support, through European
:16:32. > :16:34.funding streams. How hopeful are you there? We are putting together that
:16:35. > :16:38.at the moment and we are looking at the assessments of where we are,
:16:39. > :16:41.what the total dimensions of the damage has been and what structural
:16:42. > :16:45.repairs we will need it make. When we understand all of that, we will
:16:46. > :16:49.be in a better position to make a fuller statement on it. I will do
:16:50. > :16:53.so. But, also, I have asked for a review of the coastal defences of
:16:54. > :16:59.Wales in tow tality following the storms in December -- in totality. I
:17:00. > :17:03.want to understand where our weaknesses are and where we need it
:17:04. > :17:06.make emergency repairs and where we need to make more investment for the
:17:07. > :17:11.future. I will pick up on that for a second. I was surprised to he soot
:17:12. > :17:14.Welsh Secretary, David Jones, saying that no official request foreextra
:17:15. > :17:20.funding help had come to his department from you -- no official
:17:21. > :17:24.request for extra funding. Was that true? I was surprised to
:17:25. > :17:32.see the Welsh Secretary saying that. I would be surprise surprised, I
:17:33. > :17:37.would want to see him talking about how we can work together to help.
:17:38. > :17:41.Have you asked him? We are not yet in the position to make that formal
:17:42. > :17:44.bit d bid if you like. We are talking to them every day. We are
:17:45. > :17:50.talking to departments in London. We have a good relationship with the UK
:17:51. > :17:52.Government. I don't understand why the Secretary of State doesn't
:17:53. > :17:57.understand or appreciate that. But he is right to say that know formal
:17:58. > :18:01.bid has gone in But the context and conversations are taking place.
:18:02. > :18:04.That's really important. We have a relationship with DEFRA in London
:18:05. > :18:08.where we talk most day abouts how we deal with the different situations.
:18:09. > :18:15.When would you be in a position to put a bid in? I would expect to be
:18:16. > :18:22.able to look at the dimensions of the problems we are facing this week
:18:23. > :18:26.and respond to it next week. Co-ordinating the approach. Lord el
:18:27. > :18:31.WLord Elis Thomas making it's point it needs to be more coherent, if you
:18:32. > :18:35.look at the Welsh coastline and the increasing problems with climate
:18:36. > :18:39.change, do you agree with him or do you think there should be one body
:18:40. > :18:44.responsible for managing the approach to koeslines? Agree with
:18:45. > :18:48.him we have seen a change in patterns, as a direct be consequence
:18:49. > :18:52.of climate change and we need to adapt to an action plan in Wales
:18:53. > :18:55.which takes into account the change in weather patterns aes a result of
:18:56. > :19:00.climate change. I agree with that. We do have adaptation plans in
:19:01. > :19:05.place. One of the purposes of the review that NRW are carrying out for
:19:06. > :19:09.me at the moment is tolike at o how strong those processes, those
:19:10. > :19:12.systems are. -- to to look at how strong. If we need to strengthen
:19:13. > :19:16.them, we will do so. At the moment we have a number of bodies
:19:17. > :19:21.responsible for defences in different places, mainly NRW in
:19:22. > :19:23.local government but obviously to product infrastructure in companies
:19:24. > :19:27.such as the railways. We need to look at how all that is working. At
:19:28. > :19:31.the moment for many parts of our coast, we are quite well-protected
:19:32. > :19:35.but we need to lack at where we are vulnerable. We need to search out
:19:36. > :19:39.for weaknesses and identify those weaknesses and then we need to
:19:40. > :19:43.identify how we will ensure that coastal communities across the bhoel
:19:44. > :19:47.face of Wales are protected. -- whole face. I do not want to walk
:19:48. > :19:53.along and through a community like I did last week in Aberystwyth and see
:19:54. > :19:58.the damage done to a major settlement along our coastline.
:19:59. > :20:04.Everybody living in near our coast deserves and needs protection. This
:20:05. > :20:07.Government will not let them down. Wales's disappointing performance,
:20:08. > :20:10.to put it mildly, in the latest international education rankings -
:20:11. > :20:13.known as PISA - has been the subject of much concern over recent weeks,
:20:14. > :20:17.with standards slipping across the board. The worst showing was in
:20:18. > :20:20.science. Wales dropped 6 places and one of our most distinguished
:20:21. > :20:24.scientists is now calling for more to be done to promote interest in
:20:25. > :20:27.science in school and beyond. Sir Martin Evans, who won the Nobel
:20:28. > :20:30.Prize in 2007 for his pioneering work on stem-cell research, says
:20:31. > :20:32.that people should be far more aware of the great work being done in
:20:33. > :20:49.Wales. I have been interested in science
:20:50. > :20:53.throughout my life. I have been fortunate enough to be able to carry
:20:54. > :21:00.out a scientific career and that has been my life.
:21:01. > :21:08.I do think that scienceville a fundamental importance to everyone.
:21:09. > :21:12.It is a base skill these days. You know, in the last century, I
:21:13. > :21:18.suppose, well certainly over our lifetimes, there have been amazing
:21:19. > :21:22.discoveries in biology, in medicine, astronomy, and of course, huge
:21:23. > :21:28.technological developments, all of which are based on physical
:21:29. > :21:32.understanding. I think they would be terribly undersold if we don't give
:21:33. > :21:39.people the opportunity to understand what it is all about. I think we
:21:40. > :21:45.should teach scientific understanding, so anybody in society
:21:46. > :21:52.can have an idea of what it is all about. Part of that is understanding
:21:53. > :21:58.how science answers questions. How we can use experiments to test
:21:59. > :22:02.different hypothesis. Different ways of looking at it. Is this one right
:22:03. > :22:07.other that one right? We don't know, we will find out. I think that's so
:22:08. > :22:13.different from just emotional imagination. But imagination is
:22:14. > :22:17.hugely important. Many people don't realise that
:22:18. > :22:22.emergency emergenciation, lateral thinking, looking atp things from a
:22:23. > :22:26.different way, is essential for scientific advance. The essence of
:22:27. > :22:30.being a human, is being able to be there to interact, to imagine, and
:22:31. > :22:35.of course, scientificically, it is the imagination that's allowed all
:22:36. > :22:42.the advances. I don't want to see that stamped out from any child at
:22:43. > :22:47.all. In Wales, the Welsh Assembly Government is very concerned, quite
:22:48. > :22:51.rightly, with the levels of numeracy and literacy coming out of our
:22:52. > :22:56.schools, therefore, they are lacking at changing the curriculum,
:22:57. > :23:01.particularly at Key Stage 2, that's the upper stage of the primary
:23:02. > :23:06.school, to really concentrate on English and maths, basically. That's
:23:07. > :23:13.fine. But, at that stage, too, there was a continuation going on of
:23:14. > :23:19.starting people on science. It's been very good. And it would be a
:23:20. > :23:25.disaster for us, if that were dropped. If you drop t you will then
:23:26. > :23:29.drop a whole segment of our education and you will be putting
:23:30. > :23:35.people in a position where they may find it more difficult to pick it
:23:36. > :23:41.up. Science is a way of thinking. A very useful way of thinking to look
:23:42. > :23:45.at and understand problems and to understand where we are. I think it
:23:46. > :23:53.should be everybody's privilege to be able to understand where they are
:23:54. > :24:03.in the world. Plenty of food for thout for Sir
:24:04. > :24:07.Martin Essex. Joining me is Wendy Sadler, directedor of Science Made
:24:08. > :24:13.Simple, an initiative to encourage schoolchildren to participate in
:24:14. > :24:17.science and Professor Karen Holford, the Pro Vice Chancellor of Cardiff
:24:18. > :24:22.University college of physical science. Why are we not engaging
:24:23. > :24:24.children? Science is something children are curious about.
:24:25. > :24:28.Something seems to happen between primary and secondary school which
:24:29. > :24:31.makes them switch off. We are putting demands on teachers and they
:24:32. > :24:37.are not getting time to explore perhaps the fun and practical side
:24:38. > :24:44.of science. When we go into schools we take lots of experiments and take
:24:45. > :24:51.perhaps things that children are already excited about, music, and
:24:52. > :24:56.medicine. Teachers are saying they don't get time. They don't get time
:24:57. > :24:59.or not allowed to? I think it is because they are trying to get
:25:00. > :25:02.through so many things that are not tested there is not the free reign.
:25:03. > :25:06.Perhaps some of it comes down to teachers not having confidence in
:25:07. > :25:10.science. We know there is a problem with recruiting teachers,
:25:11. > :25:13.particularly with a physical science background. To my find, if a student
:25:14. > :25:17.doesn't see a teacher passionate about the subject talking, then
:25:18. > :25:20.they'll lose that love. I think a teacher can only teach effectively
:25:21. > :25:23.if they love the subject. Universities are all Ben couraging
:25:24. > :25:28.enthusiasm and interest and passion. So, would it be fair for me to say
:25:29. > :25:33.to you, are our universities turning out graduates who have that
:25:34. > :25:37.necessary enthusiasm that they can pass on to pupils Absolutely.
:25:38. > :25:40.Science is perceived as being a hard subject. I think that's one of the
:25:41. > :25:43.things we have to dispel that myth, about it being a hard subject. It is
:25:44. > :25:47.hard to subject any subject at university but it is possible and
:25:48. > :25:51.you know people should rise to the challenge. Viewers will be struck
:25:52. > :25:56.that I'm interviewing two women about science. But, I think it is
:25:57. > :25:58.fair to say, there has been a kind of gender perception problem about
:25:59. > :26:02.science in the past as well, which is in many cases, it has been seen
:26:03. > :26:06.as something of interest to men, mostly. Again, what is being done to
:26:07. > :26:12.challenge those perceptions A lot of good work being done, organisations
:26:13. > :26:16.like Women in Science and Engineers and Engineering Scheme for Wales and
:26:17. > :26:18.others are doing good work. One of the things from my point of view is
:26:19. > :26:22.reaching the parents. Parents, believe it or not, have a huge
:26:23. > :26:25.influence on their children and children do go to parents for
:26:26. > :26:28.advice. If a parent is a little nervous about their daughter
:26:29. > :26:32.becoming an engineer, as my parents were, you know, that daughter is
:26:33. > :26:35.going to have to fight hard to find out the information and it is always
:26:36. > :26:39.going to be a challenge. I think parents have a huge part to play.
:26:40. > :26:42.Also, society has a huge part to play in saying - this is a role
:26:43. > :26:48.model, a woman who is a successful engineer, scientist, and is enjoying
:26:49. > :26:53.her job. We were talking about the PISA results which clearly in school
:26:54. > :26:56.terms have are been disappointing and science saw the biggest drop of
:26:57. > :27:00.all. Yes, people will accept there is curriculum and time pressure, but
:27:01. > :27:03.there must be a question as well about the quality of teaching in
:27:04. > :27:06.some of our schools where science is concerned, do we acknowledge that? I
:27:07. > :27:10.think it is not necessarily only that. There are many schemes that we
:27:11. > :27:12.have looked at across the UK that aren't being matched in Wales,
:27:13. > :27:20.particularly for teachers who have to teach physics but don't have have
:27:21. > :27:24.a background in physics. The Institute Institute of Physics has
:27:25. > :27:27.done work in England and ask the land but not matched yet in Wales.
:27:28. > :27:32.There is a question about the support teachers get. I don't think
:27:33. > :27:36.they are given time to follow their skills. You won't find a teacher who
:27:37. > :27:41.is in it for a ride. They want to do their job well. They need support.
:27:42. > :27:44.Final point. Sir Martin clearly is a global star, someone who has
:27:45. > :27:48.achieved remarkable things and the Nobel Prize recognise that is but he
:27:49. > :27:53.makes the point, modestlily, about people in Wales not being awhich are
:27:54. > :27:56.of the work that has been done -- modestly, about people in Wales not
:27:57. > :28:00.being aware of the work he has done. I bet people in Wales don't know
:28:01. > :28:07.about the work he has done. What can we do to market that? We need to be
:28:08. > :28:10.bolder and more confident in promoting ourselves. In the past we
:28:11. > :28:14.have thought - people should know this. But they don't. We have to
:28:15. > :28:20.shout about our successes. Yesterday the top UK 100 scientists pass
:28:21. > :28:22.published. We have two from Cardiff University. And 40 of them were
:28:23. > :28:27.women. Great news on which to end on. Thank
:28:28. > :28:30.you both for coming in. Thank you very much.
:28:31. > :28:34.That's it for this week's programme. We will be back next Wednesday. In
:28:35. > :28:36.the meantime you can get in touch with us by e-mail: And we are on
:28:37. > :28:42.Twitter: Thank you for watching and good
:28:43. > :28:48.night.