:00:00. > :00:09.As the dust settles on last week?s European elections, we speak to
:00:10. > :00:12.the victors, UKIP, who narrowly missed topping the poll here.
:00:13. > :00:18.Where next for the Liberal Democrats in Wales?
:00:19. > :00:22.And is a flagship Welsh Government scheme aimed at tackling poverty
:00:23. > :00:25.in the most deprived communities in Wales working?
:00:26. > :00:33.Good evening and welcome to The Wales Report.
:00:34. > :00:37.On tonight?s programme, the results of last week?s European
:00:38. > :00:40.elections are still being digested across Wales.
:00:41. > :00:44.On the surface, there?s no change, the same four parties,
:00:45. > :00:48.the Conservatives, Labour, Plaid Cymru and UKIP, still have one
:00:49. > :00:51.seat each representing Wales in the European Parliament.
:00:52. > :00:55.But the political landscape here has been radically altered,
:00:56. > :00:59.with UKIP narrowly missing the top spot in Wales.
:01:00. > :01:02.It was a very different night for the Liberal Democrats, who
:01:03. > :01:07.performed badly across the board, losing all but one of their MEPs.
:01:08. > :01:10.For the first time in Wales, the party was pushed into sixth
:01:11. > :01:16.In Blaenau Gwent, the party was beaten by the BNP.
:01:17. > :01:30.So, what does all of this mean for the future of the party?
:01:31. > :01:36.The Liberal Democrats are bruised and battered and in need of a fight
:01:37. > :01:44.to get them back into the general election. Imagine what Wales' most
:01:45. > :01:51.famous liberal would have made of this.
:01:52. > :01:55.David Lloyd George - a radical, a reformer and the only Welsh
:01:56. > :01:59.politician to make his home in Number 10.
:02:00. > :02:06.But despite his successes, his coalition partnership played
:02:07. > :02:12.Falling to sixth place in the European election shows their
:02:13. > :02:17.support has shifted elsewhere. They will need more of the courage their
:02:18. > :02:24.leader in Wales spoke of last year. We took a courageous decision back
:02:25. > :02:28.in 2010. But will they be attempting their fightback with Nick Clegg in
:02:29. > :02:32.charge? He is adamant he will not walk away but is that a wise choice
:02:33. > :02:36.when voters seem to be running from the party?
:02:37. > :02:42.Joining me now is the party?s leader in Wales, Kirsty Williams.
:02:43. > :02:51.Is Nick Clegg the right man to lead you? Yes, he is. He has had the
:02:52. > :02:55.courage of his convictions to make a positive case about what the Liberal
:02:56. > :02:59.Democrats and the Welsh Liberal Democrats believe in. He had the
:03:00. > :03:04.courage to do what was right for the country by taking the party into a
:03:05. > :03:12.coalition government. The voters don't buy it. In this election, the
:03:13. > :03:15.results show we have not been successful in getting that message
:03:16. > :03:20.across to people but it is going to take more than one election talking
:03:21. > :03:23.positively about why we should be part of Europe. Perhaps we should
:03:24. > :03:28.have talked more about how we want to change you rip to make it work
:03:29. > :03:36.better for Wales. But he is the person to take us forward. He is a
:03:37. > :03:41.friend. Have you spoken to him? I have not spoken to him but I have
:03:42. > :03:48.exchanged text messages. He is tired and disappointed, as disappointed as
:03:49. > :03:51.I am to see the results coming from the European elections, but he is
:03:52. > :03:56.determined to stick to his guns and continued to play what is a very
:03:57. > :04:01.important role. Is he listening? A 4% share of the vote in Wales. How
:04:02. > :04:06.bad does it have to get for him to listen? He is listening, he
:04:07. > :04:11.understands that these are bad results. But simply walking away
:04:12. > :04:17.would be to undo all the hard work of being the Deputy Prime Minister,
:04:18. > :04:23.being in a coalition government. It is one thing to walk away from the
:04:24. > :04:30.leadership, but you would not have to leave the coalition. There is no
:04:31. > :04:33.leadership issue. What we need to do now is acknowledged that it has been
:04:34. > :04:37.a very difficult week for the Liberal Democrats and we have to get
:04:38. > :04:40.back on track, speaking quite clearly to the British and Welsh
:04:41. > :04:47.public about what the Liberal Democrats are for. Just to be
:04:48. > :04:52.absolutely clear, he has said he has never considered his position.
:04:53. > :04:56.Shirley Williams says he has. You are adamant that he should not
:04:57. > :05:01.consider his position, he should carry on, business as usual. I could
:05:02. > :05:07.not be any clearer. I think Nick Clegg is the right man to lead this
:05:08. > :05:12.party into the general section. We need to redouble our efforts in
:05:13. > :05:15.explaining to this country what the Liberal Democrats are achieving as
:05:16. > :05:26.part of this government and what we are for. You have been trying to do
:05:27. > :05:30.that for years. It is not working. What we need to do is to be
:05:31. > :05:34.absolutely clear with people about what they get if they support the
:05:35. > :05:38.Liberal Democrats. In the past we have been the repository for many
:05:39. > :05:43.protest votes. We can't be that now that we have taken the step of being
:05:44. > :05:47.a party in government. We have to demonstrate that we have taken that
:05:48. > :05:52.responsible decision, we are capable of being a party in government, we
:05:53. > :05:55.stick to our values and do the things we want to do, which is
:05:56. > :05:59.making sure there is a strong economy, which means people get back
:06:00. > :06:06.to work and we can use the proceeds of that to help the poorest in
:06:07. > :06:11.society. And that is your mantra. I suggest it has not worked. Was it a
:06:12. > :06:16.mistake to go into coalition with the Conservatives? You were not keen
:06:17. > :06:22.and in Wales you did not fancy the rainbow coalition on the table which
:06:23. > :06:27.did include the Conservatives. You were far more keen to go with
:06:28. > :06:32.Labour. Have you been proved right? It is not a question about who has
:06:33. > :06:36.been proved right. The party was faced with a very challenging
:06:37. > :06:41.decision. The public had decided not to give one party and overall
:06:42. > :06:45.majority. The easy choice and the safest choice for the party would
:06:46. > :06:50.have been to have walked away. But let's be clear what would have
:06:51. > :06:53.happened, the economy would have been in even more serious trouble,
:06:54. > :07:02.they would have been a snap election. So why aren't voters
:07:03. > :07:06.thanking you? We would have been decimated. We took the responsible
:07:07. > :07:12.choice to go into a coalition government to try and sort out the
:07:13. > :07:17.economy. And you have paid heavily for that choice. Was it the wrong
:07:18. > :07:21.choice? No, because what would have happened would have been disastrous
:07:22. > :07:27.for the country. It would have been a disaster to go with Labour? If you
:07:28. > :07:31.look at the Sims, it did not add up. We would not have had a stable
:07:32. > :07:35.government which could have lasted five years. The Labour Party were in
:07:36. > :07:41.no position to enter into that agreement. I was in London and the
:07:42. > :07:46.behaviour of the likes of Ed Balls demonstrated they were not taking
:07:47. > :07:49.that option seriously. Would it help you going into the next general
:07:50. > :07:54.election to say, we will not renew this deal with the Conservatives? We
:07:55. > :07:58.cannot rule in or out any coalition because that is not our choice, it
:07:59. > :08:03.is the choice of the people of this country. When you next text Nick
:08:04. > :08:09.Clegg, what will be your word of advice? We have got to get out there
:08:10. > :08:13.and we have got to be clear and distinctive in our message about
:08:14. > :08:17.what the Liberal Democrats are for. We are a party capable of being in
:08:18. > :08:20.government, taking the tough decisions to make sure our economy
:08:21. > :08:26.gets on track, but we need to be clear about how the recovery is
:08:27. > :08:29.there, which is how we can invest in public services to make sure
:08:30. > :08:32.everybody has a decent education and a decent health services and
:08:33. > :08:34.services they can rely on. Thank you.
:08:35. > :08:37.The fall-out from last week?s vote is still far from clear.
:08:38. > :08:40.Big questions are being asked of all the parties as we approach
:08:41. > :08:45.For UKIP, those questions concentrate
:08:46. > :08:48.on the party?s ability to replicate their European success both
:08:49. > :08:53.The party?s Welsh representative, Nathan Gill, says that the results
:08:54. > :08:56.prove that Wales is ?just as Eurosceptic as the rest of the UK?.
:08:57. > :09:06.If UKIP have caused a political earthquake, where does
:09:07. > :09:09.their performance in Wales register on the Richter Scale?
:09:10. > :09:13.Well, the ground hasn?t opened up and swallowed the other parties,
:09:14. > :09:21.but Farage and friends have certainly shaken the status quo.
:09:22. > :09:25.The single most remarkable result last night was in Wales.
:09:26. > :09:28.With 28% of the vote, UKIP have galvanised support
:09:29. > :09:38.across the country, picking up more than 114,000 votes since 2009.
:09:39. > :09:41.Politics dressed in purple taking votes from those in more tried and
:09:42. > :09:44.tested colours. ?The Valleys are ours
:09:45. > :09:47.for the taking?, say UKIP, and in their sights, a handful
:09:48. > :09:50.of AMs with seats in the Senedd. But will their anti-EU
:09:51. > :09:54.and anti-immigration platform be what voters are looking for in next
:09:55. > :09:58.year?s General Election and beyond And as the focus shifts away
:09:59. > :10:04.from Europe, will UKIP have answers on education,
:10:05. > :10:12.on the economy and healthcare? I?m joined now by Wales? newest MEP,
:10:13. > :10:24.UKIP?s Nathan Gill. You are heading to Brussels, we know
:10:25. > :10:28.what your long-term aim is, to abolish that institution. In the
:10:29. > :10:33.meantime, how will you be fighting for the people of Wales? I am going
:10:34. > :10:38.to have to take a period of bedding in when I find out what my role is.
:10:39. > :10:45.But it is important for me when I get there to find out exactly what
:10:46. > :10:48.it is that is being done there for the people of Wales and what is
:10:49. > :10:54.being done with our money and what the institutions are going to be
:10:55. > :10:58.putting on to us with regards to legislation and all those things and
:10:59. > :11:02.bring that information back to the people of Wales so that they can be
:11:03. > :11:08.informed as to what is going on in these institutions. What about jobs
:11:09. > :11:14.for Wales? How are you going to secure more jobs? I fail to see how
:11:15. > :11:21.an MEP can secure more jobs for Wales. The reality is, MEPs have
:11:22. > :11:26.very little power, this is something we have been saying all along, when
:11:27. > :11:32.people understand how the institutions work in Brussels, the
:11:33. > :11:36.MEPs are just a veneer of democracy. So this is a pretty expensive
:11:37. > :11:41.fact-finding mission because it does not sound as if you are going to be
:11:42. > :11:45.doing anything. This is a very expensive layer of government we
:11:46. > :11:54.want to get rid of. Every MEP costs the British taxpayer ?1.25 million.
:11:55. > :12:00.Will you take your whole salary? We want to get rid of this. Why not set
:12:01. > :12:06.an example and say you do not need these allowances, you do not need
:12:07. > :12:10.this salary? With regard to allowances, every time you turn up
:12:11. > :12:22.to Brussels, there is a 304 euros daily allowance they are claiming.
:12:23. > :12:26.We personally donate from our net wages towards the cause that we
:12:27. > :12:31.believe in, towards getting us out of that eat you. The focus now
:12:32. > :12:37.shifts because we know where you stand on Europe, we know where you
:12:38. > :12:40.stand on the institutions. The focus very firmly switches to domestic
:12:41. > :12:46.issues. We know where you stand on immigration. Health and education,
:12:47. > :12:50.bread and butter issues, are your big challenge. We know you won't go
:12:51. > :12:56.into specifics until your manifesto is out in September, but is the NHS
:12:57. > :13:02.a good thing? Absolutely, and we support it 100%. One of the sad
:13:03. > :13:06.thing during this campaign was that the Labour Party, funded with the
:13:07. > :13:10.help of the unions, went out and basically spread a lot of lies about
:13:11. > :13:15.UKIP policy. What about private sector involvement in the NHS? You
:13:16. > :13:22.need to wait about September to our manifesto. In principle? If we can
:13:23. > :13:27.make the NHS provide a better service for the people of Wales
:13:28. > :13:32.crossed it --, that is what we want. Testing in education in principle,
:13:33. > :13:36.are children tested enough? In principle it is always good to test
:13:37. > :13:41.and find out where we are and where we stand. On the economy, posterity,
:13:42. > :13:48.is that the right road for the British economy? As with any
:13:49. > :13:52.household, you have a budget and you have got to live within your means.
:13:53. > :13:56.It is about time that the British government learned to do what the
:13:57. > :14:01.British housewife and house and families have had to do all along,
:14:02. > :14:09.live within their means. Quite frankly, we are a party of, we have
:14:10. > :14:13.been saying all along, we have got to get things under control. We have
:14:14. > :14:16.got to stop borrowing money off our grandchildren to pay for things
:14:17. > :14:22.today. Way to you stand on devolution these days? Do you want
:14:23. > :14:27.to scrap the assembly these days? Our policy has unfortunately has to
:14:28. > :14:30.change and I say unfortunately because I was involved in the
:14:31. > :14:36.anti-assembly movement but what we have said as a party is that we
:14:37. > :14:40.believe in referendum. If the people of Wales, as they have now spoken
:14:41. > :14:45.into referendum, they say they want the assembly, it would be very
:14:46. > :14:54.hypocritical of us to say they are wrong and so we now support the
:14:55. > :14:55.people of Wales. 's immigration is your big theme but
:14:56. > :15:00.people of Wales. 's immigration is your big this is a different kind of
:15:01. > :15:04.immigration. You live on Anglesey where Welsh is the language of the
:15:05. > :15:11.street and it is changing to English. Should that they are
:15:12. > :15:15.concerned, the integration of English into Wales? I am originally
:15:16. > :15:19.from England and my wife is from America but our children go to war
:15:20. > :15:23.Welsh language: They are learning Welsh. I spend an hour every night
:15:24. > :15:30.listening to them reading their books to me. We fully support the
:15:31. > :15:39.Welsh language but we think if you constantly use a stick to get people
:15:40. > :15:43.to speak Welsh or use Welsh it will not work. We need more carrots to
:15:44. > :15:49.encourage people to use this wonderful part of our heritage. How
:15:50. > :15:55.will we measure the success of you as an MP over your first term?
:15:56. > :15:57.Hopefully we will have a referendum and we will lose -- and leave the EU
:15:58. > :16:04.and I will be out of a job. Is a Welsh Government flagship
:16:05. > :16:06.scheme aimed at tackling poverty across Wales
:16:07. > :16:09.delivering the changes it promised? Communities First was set up with
:16:10. > :16:12.the aim of improving health, education and the economy of Wales?
:16:13. > :16:14.most deprived areas. But over a decade on,
:16:15. > :16:17.and nearly ?400 million later, As part of a BBC Wales season
:16:18. > :16:42.looking at poverty in Wales, David More than 40 years ago, as a junior
:16:43. > :16:46.reporter on the local evening paper in Swansea, I was acutely aware of
:16:47. > :16:54.the effects of poverty and deprivation on a place they called
:16:55. > :16:58.the hill. It had sprawling estates on the outskirts of Wales's second
:16:59. > :17:03.city and it is still there. So other problems. Over the years it seems
:17:04. > :17:09.there has been an insidious creep of an unwritten policy to lump and some
:17:10. > :17:20.would say dump together the poor and those in need in places like this.
:17:21. > :17:25.Mayhill is cut off from the rest of the world in subtle ways. An island
:17:26. > :17:28.of deprivation surrounded by areas of welfare and well-being. According
:17:29. > :17:31.to the statistics you will not see much of the good life here and you
:17:32. > :17:37.never did and you will not any time soon. And yet, and yet, millions of
:17:38. > :17:42.pounds of public money has been poured into black spots like this...
:17:43. > :17:46.At this point a young man living on the street happened to hear what I
:17:47. > :17:53.was saying, right outside his house, and initially came out to
:17:54. > :17:55.remonstrate with me because he was understandably offended by the
:17:56. > :17:57.thought that I was deliberately stood with -- deliberately
:17:58. > :18:01.stigmatising people like himself. When you hear people like me walking
:18:02. > :18:08.past your house and calling it an area of deprivation and poverty,
:18:09. > :18:15.doesn't upset you? -- upset me? Yes, that definitely upsets me. I do not
:18:16. > :18:23.smoke, I smoke cigarettes. Well, that is smoking! I thought you were
:18:24. > :18:27.saying about drugs. Unpalatable though they may be, the latest
:18:28. > :18:34.statistics relating to this area paint a grim picture. The gulf in
:18:35. > :18:43.life expectancy between the richest and poorest areas remains one of the
:18:44. > :18:47.biggest in Wales. Statistics suggest that the Mayhill community is one of
:18:48. > :18:54.the poorest in Wales and the least healthy. The average life expectancy
:18:55. > :19:00.of a male here is just 69 years, that is eight years left than the
:19:01. > :19:07.average for Wales. 38% of households here have one or more people living
:19:08. > :19:13.in them with long-term illness. The Wales averages just 30%. Stephen
:19:14. > :19:18.Ellis is a statistic, although in reality he is much more than that.
:19:19. > :19:25.Now volunteer at the local community centre, at the age of 14 he suffered
:19:26. > :19:30.a major back injury which has left him permanently disabled. He is
:19:31. > :19:37.often in pain and unable to work. Life is not easy for a disabled
:19:38. > :19:41.person on an estate like Mayhill but Stephen remains remarkably positive.
:19:42. > :19:45.I am optimistic and I believe that if people get off their bums and
:19:46. > :19:51.make an effort and do things and manage their lifestyle better, food,
:19:52. > :19:55.exercise, etc, what we need is people to take charge of their
:19:56. > :20:02.lives, take charge of the hill that they live on. I am hoping that this
:20:03. > :20:07.is a look of the past. The local surgery for the GP has a look and
:20:08. > :20:12.feel of a place under siege, not just because of the external
:20:13. > :20:17.security wire. Inside the medical staff are firefighting on a whole
:20:18. > :20:22.range of fronts. As GPs we have got to tackle what we can tackle and we
:20:23. > :20:26.can do better is to do more of the stuff like having more appointments
:20:27. > :20:29.with bigger buildings and more consulting rooms and more staff and
:20:30. > :20:35.more worker bees and giving people as much time as it takes because now
:20:36. > :20:40.we are stretched. I see 50 or 60 patients a day and that whittled
:20:41. > :20:45.down to having ten minutes to see me and saw the problem out and that is
:20:46. > :20:50.all. That is why we need more of us. There have been various attempts to
:20:51. > :20:56.change the depressingly repetitive position at the bottom of clinically
:20:57. > :21:00.calculated health tables. Publicly funded schemes like Communities
:21:01. > :21:05.First, aimed at reducing inequalities was launched 13 years
:21:06. > :21:10.ago by the Welsh government as a flagship programme to reduce poverty
:21:11. > :21:15.and inequality. It is being trumpeted by successive
:21:16. > :21:19.administrations and almost ?400 million of public money has been
:21:20. > :21:24.poured into supporting the policy. The focal point of this scheme used
:21:25. > :21:30.to be this community centre and this was the man who steered it for it --
:21:31. > :21:34.through its formative stages. More recently it has been taken over by
:21:35. > :21:40.Swansea City Council. Now there is real concern that the move has added
:21:41. > :21:45.an unnecessary level of bureaucracy at the very time when the scheme
:21:46. > :21:47.seemed to be working well. We have been working with a large
:21:48. > :21:50.bureaucracy with the Welsh government through many tears all
:21:51. > :21:54.the way down to grassroots level and that is a big issue that we have. We
:21:55. > :22:04.need to see the will of the ministers and their policies in the
:22:05. > :22:07.big policy documents and then we need as few layers as possible to
:22:08. > :22:09.get down to the grassroots so we need to be looking at really
:22:10. > :22:11.targeting resources at the front line and not taking that tiered
:22:12. > :22:17.bureaucratic approach to changing someone's life at a grassroots
:22:18. > :22:21.level. 18 months ago Swansea City Council took over the running of the
:22:22. > :22:25.community's first project here. I wanted to speak to somebody down
:22:26. > :22:34.there about how they were getting on up here. Or not. It would seem that
:22:35. > :22:40.there was plenty to talk about. Swansea has been given health city
:22:41. > :22:45.status by no less an outfit than the world health organisation. The aim
:22:46. > :22:51.is to improve health for all in this city. Despite our repeated requests
:22:52. > :22:58.for an interview nobody from Swansea City Council was prepared to talk to
:22:59. > :23:04.us on camera. What they told us off camera was that they had only been
:23:05. > :23:08.running the first initiative -- in the Communities First initiative for
:23:09. > :23:13.ten months and it was impossible to reflect the true impact of their
:23:14. > :23:19.work on health inequalities in the areas concerned. Any comment on
:23:20. > :23:27.health inequalities the council people told us should be taken up
:23:28. > :23:32.with the health board. So we did. The health board is confident that
:23:33. > :23:37.it is influencing communities -- Communities First by supporting big
:23:38. > :23:42.projects instead of a lot of smaller ones and focusing on communities
:23:43. > :23:47.finding their own solutions to their own issues. What about the big
:23:48. > :23:52.picture? The overall responsibility for the running of Communities First
:23:53. > :23:58.projects in this area? The council said that that is a matter for the
:23:59. > :24:02.Welsh government. Those who know, those who deal with the problems
:24:03. > :24:06.associated with poverty and health inequalities on a daily basis, tell
:24:07. > :24:09.me that it is not just a question of money and it is certainly not about
:24:10. > :24:15.adding another layer of bureaucracy in the hope that it will do the
:24:16. > :24:20.trick. If there is to be any change in the depressingly familiar cycle
:24:21. > :24:23.poverty and deprivation in places like Mayhill then people here need
:24:24. > :24:30.to to be listening to what people out there are telling them.
:24:31. > :24:38.David Williams reporting. Joining me now is Vaughan Gething from Labour.
:24:39. > :24:43.Are you listening to places like this? Yes, since I was appointed I
:24:44. > :24:45.have been given primary responsibility for the tackling
:24:46. > :24:53.poverty action plan that draws together all of our resources.
:24:54. > :24:57.Communities First is one of those and it covers the deprived
:24:58. > :25:01.communities that make up one in four people in Wales. It is a big
:25:02. > :25:06.footprint. Communities First is not the only agent and cannot be solely
:25:07. > :25:09.responsible for tackling poverty. Let us look at Communities First. We
:25:10. > :25:15.are talking about ?400 million in the last four years, what is to show
:25:16. > :25:21.for it? It will not tackle poverty on its own. What has it done? The
:25:22. > :25:26.most important thing it can do is to change the life chances of people so
:25:27. > :25:29.we are getting big services into our poorest communities, for example the
:25:30. > :25:32.way that health and education work in these particular communities and
:25:33. > :25:38.the way job opportunities work. It has done a number of things but it
:25:39. > :25:42.is not just Communities First on its own. We are looking at that this
:25:43. > :25:46.evening. It used to be 157 partnerships and now it is right
:25:47. > :25:54.down. You heard in the report the gentleman running the community, who
:25:55. > :25:57.set it up in Mayhill, saying there is too much bureaucracy and they do
:25:58. > :25:59.not know who is in charge. Are you listening to people like that when
:26:00. > :26:03.you are reforming Communities First? It was reformed because of a number
:26:04. > :26:06.of different concerns about having too many different organisations
:26:07. > :26:09.running a Communities First partnership which is why bigger and
:26:10. > :26:13.more robust clusters are in place and some have a model like Swansea
:26:14. > :26:17.where the local authority is the lead delivery body and manages the
:26:18. > :26:20.service and others like Anglesey have the local authority as the lead
:26:21. > :26:24.body but there was a community interest Company. Effectively the
:26:25. > :26:32.community are running Communities First directly themselves. There are
:26:33. > :26:35.a range of different models that are all trying to get to the best
:26:36. > :26:37.outcome and that is what I am interested in, what is going to
:26:38. > :26:41.improve out -- outcomes for people and I am interested in what works.
:26:42. > :26:45.You have to have the health board on board and have services in there to
:26:46. > :26:49.help people find work and you need a focus on educational achievement as
:26:50. > :26:54.well. That is why I want a Communities First to have a more
:26:55. > :26:58.joined up relationship with flying start where they exist together as
:26:59. > :27:01.well. It is drawing together all of these interventions to make the
:27:02. > :27:05.biggest difference possible for families and communities. It is only
:27:06. > :27:09.one pillar, isn't it? Looking at the big picture and this morning we have
:27:10. > :27:13.a report out from Save The Children suggesting that the target of
:27:14. > :27:17.eradicating child poverty right across the UK, including here in
:27:18. > :27:22.Wales, will not happen by 2020, it is not, is it? Isn't it time to
:27:23. > :27:32.readjust the target? No, we're not moving away from the target, I said
:27:33. > :27:35.this when I was appointed and I will keep on saying it. We will maintain
:27:36. > :27:37.the target and the ambition we have to eradicate child poverty. We
:27:38. > :27:40.recognise it is a huge challenge and what Save The Children were saying
:27:41. > :27:42.today recognises the impact of tax and benefit reform and the fact it
:27:43. > :27:45.is making people poorer and not wealthier. We need a significant
:27:46. > :27:51.turnaround in the economy so that work pays much more and we need to
:27:52. > :27:54.see a different direction on tax and benefit because the deliberate
:27:55. > :27:58.policy being followed is actually making people in the lowest bits of
:27:59. > :28:03.income is poorer and not wealthier and that is a really big challenge
:28:04. > :28:07.for all of us. Just to be clear, you think that child poverty in Wales
:28:08. > :28:11.will be eradicated in six years time? I think it is a really big
:28:12. > :28:16.challenge to reach that and achieve that but I see no benefit whatsoever
:28:17. > :28:21.in changing the target or removing it. There must be a really collect
:28:22. > :28:25.-- a real collective will and effort to achieve the target. If we pull
:28:26. > :28:28.back from the target and say we will not achieve it I think people will
:28:29. > :28:32.take their put off the pedal and that is abandoning people to their
:28:33. > :28:40.feet -- fate and we will not do that. I want to get to Twenty20 and
:28:41. > :28:43.do all that we can to which you that target and if we don't we need to
:28:44. > :28:45.honestly reflect about what we have not done and what we need to do more
:28:46. > :28:51.of. Thank you very much. If you?d like to get in touch
:28:52. > :28:57.about the issues discussed please