:00:00. > :00:07.A special edition from the Senedd in Cardiff Bay.
:00:08. > :00:10.As we approach an election campaign, in which the state of the NHS
:00:11. > :00:13.in Wales is sure to be prominent, we talk to the man in charge,
:00:14. > :00:17.the Health Minister Mark Drakeford, about the challenges that lie ahead.
:00:18. > :00:33.Hello and welcome once again to the The Wales Report.
:00:34. > :00:36.This week we're at the Senedd, the home of the National Assembly
:00:37. > :00:38.for Wales, to talk about the state of the biggest and
:00:39. > :00:41.most expensive public service in the land - the National Health Service.
:00:42. > :00:44.These winter months always bring a surge in demand for health care
:00:45. > :00:47.and this is happening in a climate of acute financial pressure.
:00:48. > :00:50.So what are the challenges in the months ahead?
:00:51. > :00:52.In a moment, I'll be talking to the Minister Mark Drakeford.
:00:53. > :00:54.But first, we asked two health experts for
:00:55. > :01:06.their analysis and their recommended priorities for the Minister.
:01:07. > :01:14.The NHS in Wales. A budget of ?5.5 billion a year, implying 70,000
:01:15. > :01:21.people. Saving lives every day and doing a remarkable job, but
:01:22. > :01:27.seemingly always facing a crisis. On unlimited demand, but not unlimited
:01:28. > :01:32.money. For several years the NHS has not had enough money to deal with
:01:33. > :01:39.the pressures it has. An ageing population, more expensive drugs and
:01:40. > :01:42.so on. It is experiencing a tight financial situation and health
:01:43. > :01:46.boards are struggling to balance the books. There is pressure all over
:01:47. > :01:55.the health service and there is a danger that one we go into the
:01:56. > :01:59.winter the pressures will increase. Tonight there is a warning that
:02:00. > :02:05.there could be a crisis on the front line of the medical service in the
:02:06. > :02:13.GP service. A number of factors is cannot continue to provide services
:02:14. > :02:22.under the current contracts we have. There is economic austerity,
:02:23. > :02:27.underinvestment in general practice and our premises. This coupled with
:02:28. > :02:32.the stress means that many have had to hand their contract back. It
:02:33. > :02:42.means that these practices are being managed by the health board which is
:02:43. > :02:45.more costly. Three years ago the health service said that the less
:02:46. > :02:53.there is major investment, it will collapse. We need to provide more
:02:54. > :02:58.care in the community, close to people's is. Some progress has been
:02:59. > :03:01.made, but not enough. This is becoming really quite acute now for
:03:02. > :03:06.two reasons. One, the current pattern of health care is
:03:07. > :03:12.inefficient. Secondly, there are question marks over the quality of
:03:13. > :03:15.care that can be provided. Can we stop all of those hospitals and
:03:16. > :03:19.departments across the country? There is real concern now that we
:03:20. > :03:27.cannot do that, so major change is required. And a key part of this
:03:28. > :03:33.reorganisation will be an effective partnership between health and
:03:34. > :03:36.social care. It is crucial that health and social care communicate
:03:37. > :03:42.because so many of the health patients need social care. You can't
:03:43. > :03:46.support people at home if those two agencies are not coming together. We
:03:47. > :03:52.are probably wasting a lot of money because of this dislocation of
:03:53. > :03:55.services. Patients spending too long in hospital, or ending up in
:03:56. > :04:00.hospital when we could have prevented it. It is a major priority
:04:01. > :04:09.for the next year. And the problems don't end there. Wales's biggest
:04:10. > :04:13.help old is being kept in special measures for another two years. We
:04:14. > :04:23.are now just getting into the winter where demand can stretch the service
:04:24. > :04:30.to breaking point. Minister, one we spoke a while ago, we spoke about
:04:31. > :04:34.the challenges you are facing. What things are you pleased about in
:04:35. > :04:41.terms of progress? I am glad that those people who work writing its
:04:42. > :04:46.obituary, it turned out to be untrue. The health service today
:04:47. > :04:51.goes on seeing more people than ever before, more quickly than ever
:04:52. > :04:55.before, more successfully than ever before. Despite all the pressures,
:04:56. > :05:00.and they are real, the health service goes on being a modern
:05:01. > :05:05.miracle, doing things in the lives of people that would have been
:05:06. > :05:09.unthought of a few years ago. Because of the persistent focus now
:05:10. > :05:13.on financial pressure, I have noticed more reports about spending
:05:14. > :05:19.per head. People are saying that spending per head on health in Wales
:05:20. > :05:24.is less than it is in the UK, even if it is a small amount. That
:05:25. > :05:32.spending has gone down by about ?100 over the last year. Why is that? We
:05:33. > :05:36.took a strategic decision to protect spending across the whole of the
:05:37. > :05:43.system, health and social care together. If you look at them
:05:44. > :06:01.together, Wales spends 5% more per head than they do in England.
:06:02. > :06:15.Hospitals in England can't release patients because social care there
:06:16. > :06:20.has been underfunded. Here, we have emphasised supporting the system in
:06:21. > :06:24.the round and I think that has been one of our strengths over the last
:06:25. > :06:30.18 months. The way you are describing it there makes it sound
:06:31. > :06:36.as if these two components are working smoothly together, but
:06:37. > :06:41.experts tell us that progress has been disappointing and slow. Is that
:06:42. > :06:46.fair? We certainly need to do more and we need to do it more quickly
:06:47. > :06:51.than we have done. People argue that we need service change, and other
:06:52. > :06:56.reorganisation. That has never been my beer. My view is we have to do
:06:57. > :06:59.practical things to bring these two services into closer alignment.
:07:00. > :07:08.There are some very practical things we have done in Wales. We have a
:07:09. > :07:14.successful intermediary care funds where joint decisions are made. The
:07:15. > :07:19.new social services act allows me to mandate budgets between the two
:07:20. > :07:22.services. I do use those powers and there are very practical things we
:07:23. > :07:28.can do to do some of the things we know need to be done, but because in
:07:29. > :07:33.Wales we have a planned system, a system that is not fragmented into
:07:34. > :07:36.lots of competing parts, we have a much better chance of making the
:07:37. > :07:44.systems work together than they do elsewhere. On the Paul's budget --
:07:45. > :07:48.on the combined budgets you mentioned, why have you not use
:07:49. > :07:53.those powers already and to what extent would use them? We have not
:07:54. > :07:59.had the power up until now. We have the power to bring horses to water,
:08:00. > :08:05.but not to make them drink. That is what the social services act will
:08:06. > :08:17.allow us to do. And you will use it straightaway? I will be using it
:08:18. > :08:23.straightaway, all across Wales. In what circumstances would you use it?
:08:24. > :08:34.For the commissioning of residential care services, for example. It is
:08:35. > :08:38.quite wrong in some parts of Wales that different health boards have to
:08:39. > :08:46.compete with each other. If we had a single budget in which health care
:08:47. > :08:51.and social Claire could combine their budgets, it would be better
:08:52. > :08:56.for the people who need it and for the public purse. It is an admission
:08:57. > :09:01.though that people have been failing to make those decisions on a
:09:02. > :09:06.constructive basis if you are forcing them. There is more we have
:09:07. > :09:12.to do to explain to organisations that sometimes doing things in a way
:09:13. > :09:17.that simply looks good from your perspective may not look right from
:09:18. > :09:21.the perspective of the system as a whole. Patients flow across the
:09:22. > :09:27.system as a whole every single day. It's about getting organisations to
:09:28. > :09:31.rise above their own narrow interests to serve the interests of
:09:32. > :09:38.the whole system. Last time we met we discussed that you needed to go
:09:39. > :09:43.into quite a comprehensive range of reorganisation for hospitals. When a
:09:44. > :09:47.few years ago the First Minister said that the system would collapse
:09:48. > :09:54.without reorganisation, the alarm bells rang, but nothing has really
:09:55. > :09:58.happened. Where are you on that? I don't agree that nothing has
:09:59. > :10:01.happened. When I became health minister in 2013I was asked what
:10:02. > :10:08.might top priorities would be. One of my top three was to bring the
:10:09. > :10:12.organisations that were causing anxiety in North West and South
:10:13. > :10:16.Wales to a proper conclusion. We have succeeded in doing that in all
:10:17. > :10:22.three places. Though the turmoil we were seeing in parts of West Wales,
:10:23. > :10:25.I have put those service changes into effect. The South Wales
:10:26. > :10:34.programme is now agreed and is being implemented, and even in Betsy
:10:35. > :10:40.Cadwell, changes that have caused local anxiety, people should see
:10:41. > :10:52.changes in the primary care service. We will see the promises
:10:53. > :10:57.that have been made, to fruition. We have to deliver on those promises to
:10:58. > :11:02.gain the confidence of the local population further changes that are
:11:03. > :11:12.inevitable in our health service. What are those changes?
:11:13. > :11:18.Alongside that, the concentration of some of our hospital services, the
:11:19. > :11:24.more special services, in fewer places than we tried to provide them
:11:25. > :11:29.now. It is a twin track approach. With that approach in mind and given
:11:30. > :11:32.that you set those goals clearly, how is the Health Board like Betsy
:11:33. > :11:39.going to achieve these things are given the fact that you have is
:11:40. > :11:42.extended the period of crisis or a special measures? The first thing it
:11:43. > :11:45.has to do is regain the trust of its local population, that is where
:11:46. > :11:49.things went badly wrong in the run-up to the decision to put the
:11:50. > :11:54.border into special measures. Decisions were being made in a way
:11:55. > :11:59.that simply alienate it to many people within the local population
:12:00. > :12:04.and there is a huge effort going on now to regain that trust. Why was it
:12:05. > :12:07.necessary to extend the period by such a long time? Special measures
:12:08. > :12:17.are not something that you will be able to turn around in the matter of
:12:18. > :12:22.100 days. Measures tell you that these processors corner over years.
:12:23. > :12:26.Two years we think is what it will take in order to rebuild some of the
:12:27. > :12:30.capacity of that board, some of the trust with its local population and
:12:31. > :12:34.to make some of the important decisions that will be necessary to
:12:35. > :12:39.put that board on an even keel for the future. When the initial period
:12:40. > :12:42.started there was a suggestion that's there were some painful
:12:43. > :12:46.decisions to be made which could be made within months and then things
:12:47. > :12:51.could return to what you might call normality, we are not in that
:12:52. > :12:55.position so what does it tell us about the stewardship and the
:12:56. > :13:03.oversight here in Cardiff -- Cardiff Bay? What it tells us is that when
:13:04. > :13:08.things go wrong in a Health Board, the cliff that health boards might
:13:09. > :13:12.be going out to be steep indeed and the movement from being in control
:13:13. > :13:17.and having a decent relationship with your local population can
:13:18. > :13:24.evaporate very quickly. The repair of that takes a lot longer than its
:13:25. > :13:31.loss. That is what we are learning in that contacts. I am wondering
:13:32. > :13:35.whether a double edge thing. You want important decisions to be taken
:13:36. > :13:39.and you do not think the system is working as it is clearly, are you
:13:40. > :13:45.then created a problem because lots of doctors are saying to me, levels
:13:46. > :13:49.of recruitment in some areas are in a pretty bad state and if you put a
:13:50. > :13:53.pretty bad state and if you put aboard to be a very attractive place
:13:54. > :13:55.to work in a pretty bad state and if you put aboard into special
:13:56. > :14:05.measures, it is not going to be a very attractive place to work again
:14:06. > :14:08.and damage you can end with people not deciding to invest their futures
:14:09. > :14:12.in that part of Wales, it is a con recession I have had in the past in
:14:13. > :14:15.South West Wales where I say if you want people to come and work in your
:14:16. > :14:19.hospital what you do not want is someone who does not know the area
:14:20. > :14:23.well but might be looking at an advert to put that hospital's name
:14:24. > :14:28.into Google and all they see as turmoil around the future of our
:14:29. > :14:33.hospital. We know from our experience elsewhere that you can
:14:34. > :14:37.repair that damage, you can turn the corner, you can gain reputation as
:14:38. > :14:41.well. There are wonderful things that go on in Betsi Cadwaladr
:14:42. > :14:45.everyday, it's cancer services are the best in Wales, some of its
:14:46. > :14:50.primary care is among the most innovative that we have in Wales. We
:14:51. > :14:55.have to find a way of getting past the immediate problems to find that
:14:56. > :14:58.meant as opportunities there are forever anyone wanting to invest
:14:59. > :15:02.their future in that part of our health service. It is important to
:15:03. > :15:07.underline recruitment is not just a problem there, there is a
:15:08. > :15:13.recruitment problem for nurses and GPs across Wales and what is the
:15:14. > :15:18.reason? Why is Wales unattractive for some health professionals? What
:15:19. > :15:21.are you picking up? We need a little bit of context. There are more
:15:22. > :15:28.people working in the Welsh NHS than ever before, more doctors, 2000
:15:29. > :15:33.GPs... We have a recruitment problem in some parts of Wales but we have
:15:34. > :15:38.22,000 nurses for the first time ever, the highest number we have
:15:39. > :15:41.ever had. We have a plan for dealing with our recruitment problems in
:15:42. > :15:45.primary care in particular. It is this. That the future of primary
:15:46. > :15:50.care will not look like it has in the past, the role of the GP remains
:15:51. > :15:55.absolutely pivotal. We have to do more to free up the time of the GPs
:15:56. > :16:02.we have to do the things that only GPs are able to do, lots of what GPs
:16:03. > :16:07.do today can just as clinically and competently and successfully be done
:16:08. > :16:10.with an advanced practice nurse, a clinical pharmacist, and advanced
:16:11. > :16:14.practice paramedic... We have to think of primary care in the future
:16:15. > :16:20.as using the talents and abilities of the whole primary care team and
:16:21. > :16:23.allowing GPs them to concentrate on those complex cases were only
:16:24. > :16:29.someone with the training and ability to weigh up the case in
:16:30. > :16:33.around like the GP has. I think we have had a great deal of success
:16:34. > :16:38.working with the GP community in Wales to recognise that way forward
:16:39. > :16:41.and as a result we have in parts of North Wales now teams of people
:16:42. > :16:46.working in primary care in a way that we have never seen before. I
:16:47. > :16:51.was chatting to one GP outside Cardiff recently, here's my age, he
:16:52. > :16:55.is looking at retirement eventually, his message was a bit depressing
:16:56. > :16:58.because he is a committed GP and he was saying lots of GPs of his
:16:59. > :17:02.generation feel that they have been under intense pressure, they are not
:17:03. > :17:06.valued, partly by the Welsh Government and they feel they are
:17:07. > :17:10.under a lot of pressure and they are looking to take early retirement and
:17:11. > :17:14.on top of that, it is then difficult to get young GPs in. That is not the
:17:15. > :17:19.constructive picture that you seemed to be painting. I absolutely
:17:20. > :17:23.recognise the pressures that GPs feel every day with a number of
:17:24. > :17:27.people coming through their door and it is true that the new generation
:17:28. > :17:32.of people coming into general medicine are not necessarily
:17:33. > :17:36.attracted to the sort of models of primary care, the contractor model
:17:37. > :17:42.that we have had in the past. I am very keen to do all we can to help
:17:43. > :17:47.people who do not want to go on working full-time in the way that
:17:48. > :17:51.they have bought 30 years or more to continue to make a contribution to
:17:52. > :17:56.the Welsh NHS, maybe working part-time on a part of the job that
:17:57. > :18:02.is particularly interesting to them, to take up a diabetes specialism, we
:18:03. > :18:04.have huge numbers of people who need primary care medicine in diabetes
:18:05. > :18:08.and we have people who worked for a long time who may be willing to go
:18:09. > :18:13.on working if they can make a particular contribution in that sort
:18:14. > :18:17.of medicine or training, the future generation of GPs and the other
:18:18. > :18:23.thing we have to do is to help the profession to generate new models of
:18:24. > :18:28.employment. More salaried GPs in future, I am sure, more GP practices
:18:29. > :18:33.working together in federations, some very interesting models in
:18:34. > :18:36.parts of Wales of GPs coming together to form social enterprises,
:18:37. > :18:40.collectives, where they shared some of this burden over a wider number
:18:41. > :18:48.of practices and individuals, there are things we can do, we are very
:18:49. > :18:50.committed to doing that and we are very lucky that although individuals
:18:51. > :18:55.think these pressures very much, our relationship with our profession and
:18:56. > :18:57.the general practitioner community in Wales is genuinely constructive
:18:58. > :19:05.and I think we share ambitions and we have discussions about means
:19:06. > :19:09.towards those ends, but in Wales, in comparison with other parts of
:19:10. > :19:14.England in particular, my aim as Health Minister is to tell our
:19:15. > :19:20.people how much they are valued, how much the solution to the future lies
:19:21. > :19:23.in dialogue and discussion, rather than confrontation. One final point,
:19:24. > :19:27.I must mention junior doctors because they have been on the
:19:28. > :19:30.headlines, a lot of people have been making the distinction between how
:19:31. > :19:33.junior doctors are dealt with in Wales and in England where it has
:19:34. > :19:37.been hugely controversial with the new contract, what is your message
:19:38. > :19:43.to junior doctors in Wales and are you telling them that they have a
:19:44. > :19:51.better run in Wales? My message to junior doctors, outside Wales as
:19:52. > :19:54.well as in Wales, is that we want you to make your future part of our
:19:55. > :19:58.future. We see you as a tremendous asset, we see you as people we want
:19:59. > :20:02.to invest in, we see you as people who we want to have a dialogue
:20:03. > :20:08.with, to shape the future which cannot be the same as the past,
:20:09. > :20:12.change is inevitable, but our way of bringing about change is through
:20:13. > :20:16.discussion and dialogue. I absolutely do not want to be in a
:20:17. > :20:21.position where our staff in Wales, in which they feel that my attitude
:20:22. > :20:25.to them is one of dictation and confrontation. That is absolutely
:20:26. > :20:28.not the way we do things in Wales. Hopefully we will have another
:20:29. > :20:36.update in a few months but thank you for talking to us.
:20:37. > :20:38.Well, if the debate about health provision in Wales is
:20:39. > :20:41.familiar, the state of another vital public service is not so prominent.
:20:42. > :20:44.The state of the media in Wales, broadcasting, print and online, is
:20:45. > :20:47.not a cause for national celebration if you look at the latest analysis.
:20:48. > :20:50.Yes, we all know about Dr Who and Sherlock and Casualty,
:20:51. > :20:53.all made in Wales, but we're talking about coverage of Welsh life
:20:54. > :20:56.and what kind of voice the people of Wales have in the media.
:20:57. > :20:59.A report by the Institute of Welsh Affairs released today has found
:21:00. > :21:01.that coverage of Wales is shrinking, both on screen and in print.
:21:02. > :21:04.The Welsh Government says it's a cause for deep concern.
:21:05. > :21:08.It was the BBC to spend more money on English and which programmes in
:21:09. > :21:10.Wales and in a moment I will be talking to James Purnell. Before
:21:11. > :21:13.that, Angela Graham who chairs the Media Policy Group for the Institute
:21:14. > :21:19.of Welsh Affairs offers her analysis. I start every day with
:21:20. > :21:24.Radio Wales Sport. I read the western mail at breakfast and then
:21:25. > :21:31.check out Wales online, I use iPlayer to give me the options and
:21:32. > :21:38.the eye player it gives me the ITV Wales many as well. Despite all
:21:39. > :21:44.these choices, we face a future of many media in Wales, but less media
:21:45. > :21:49.contents about Wales. In commercial radio, as digital audio broadcasting
:21:50. > :21:56.spreads, local news could disappear from the airwaves as big groups take
:21:57. > :22:01.over. Newspaper sales are declining and there are fewer journalists. Is
:22:02. > :22:05.this a brave new world driven by the potential of social media or a
:22:06. > :22:12.weakened press sector, less able to keep as well informed and hold power
:22:13. > :22:16.to account. Surely in broadcasting, especially television, Wales is
:22:17. > :22:26.doing really well, making big network shows like Sherlock,
:22:27. > :22:31.Casualty and Dr Who. But look for Wales itself on the network and you
:22:32. > :22:34.find very little. In the Ingush language, drama arts and
:22:35. > :22:39.entertainment made for Wales about Wales are disappearing from the
:22:40. > :22:45.schedules for BBC Wales. It means the people of Wales are becoming
:22:46. > :22:49.harder to see and harder to hear. ITV Wales has been cut to its lowest
:22:50. > :22:55.output ever at just 90 minutes a week of non-news programming. S4C's
:22:56. > :22:59.funding has been cut by a quarter. In the last five years, the BBC in
:23:00. > :23:03.Wales has been cut of more heavily than in Scotland and in Northern
:23:04. > :23:11.Ireland. Under the current license the deal, all the BBC is promising
:23:12. > :23:16.is that Wales will be cut less than anywhere else. As a strategy, that
:23:17. > :23:21.is not good enough. The BBC centrally must show that it has a
:23:22. > :23:24.plan to deal with the media circumstances particular to Wales.
:23:25. > :23:28.Rhetoric about making money work harder or guilt tripping us that
:23:29. > :23:33.network quality will suffer if Wales gets more funding simply is not
:23:34. > :23:37.enough. The market has not delivered what Wales need from its broadcast
:23:38. > :23:42.media, robust public service broadcasting is essential and the
:23:43. > :23:45.BBC is the cornerstone of that in Wales. That was Angela Graham with
:23:46. > :23:50.her thoughts on where we are an James Purnell is with me now. Thanks
:23:51. > :23:53.for talking to us. You have come to Cardiff for people want you to say
:23:54. > :23:56.that the BBC is committed to spending more money on
:23:57. > :24:02.English-language programmes and what is the answer? We recognise that
:24:03. > :24:06.there is a need and we agree with Angela that people in Wales want to
:24:07. > :24:08.see more Welsh content going on all of our services and they want to see
:24:09. > :24:15.more content about Wales as well. The context is difficult, the BBC's
:24:16. > :24:18.finances were cut, we have had to find 40% savings in the last ten
:24:19. > :24:22.years and we will have to find another 20%, there is not a magical
:24:23. > :24:25.part where we can find the money so we will have to work really
:24:26. > :24:30.creatively with everyone in Wales, look at the money we spend on our
:24:31. > :24:34.network services, on BBC One and BBC Two to address those needs in a way
:24:35. > :24:39.that we can do within the reduced funding. Let us be clear when the
:24:40. > :24:42.first Minister of Wales want ?30 million spent on English-language
:24:43. > :24:46.programmes, you're basically saying that is not possible? We have said
:24:47. > :24:49.that we will cut Wales less than anywhere, we are having to cut our
:24:50. > :24:55.money quite significantly. I think it is good but very hard to find an
:24:56. > :24:59.net increase of ?30 million but what we do totally agree with is to say
:25:00. > :25:04.it is right that Wales needs to have its culture and politics reflected
:25:05. > :25:07.within Wales and to the whole of the UK and we want to look at our
:25:08. > :25:11.money, see how we can spend more efficiently and creatively to
:25:12. > :25:15.achieve that. One example would be, there has been a huge success story
:25:16. > :25:23.in Wales in the last ten years with Who, Sherlock, if some of those
:25:24. > :25:29.programmes could be covering and betraying Wales as well, like Gavin
:25:30. > :25:33.Andrews a seeded, that would be a way of hitting both birds with one
:25:34. > :25:41.stone, so we need creative solutions. That is piggybacking
:25:42. > :25:47.other stuff, it is not creating new streams of programming which are to
:25:48. > :25:51.do with innovative ways of betraying Wales within Wales and beyond Wales.
:25:52. > :25:56.That is what was achieved in the past, we are not in a position any
:25:57. > :26:01.more. In the past we had growing money and now we do not, our funding
:26:02. > :26:04.is going down significantly. You made the point clearly on money, I
:26:05. > :26:10.am wondering whether the BBC is really understanding the kind of
:26:11. > :26:15.ecology that we have, which is different to Scotland, if we make
:26:16. > :26:21.that comparison. The BBC is shouldering a heavy burden. Other
:26:22. > :26:25.parts of the media in Wales, print and with ITV are considerably weaker
:26:26. > :26:31.than elsewhere, shouldn't the BBC be stepping up and making an exception
:26:32. > :26:36.of Wales? I think that is right. There is less plural media in Wales,
:26:37. > :26:39.whereas 20 years ago, there would have been quite a lot of people
:26:40. > :26:44.playing in this area and it is now mainly the BBC, I do agree that we
:26:45. > :26:48.have a responsibility to address this need and I guess what I am
:26:49. > :26:52.saying is we have to do it in a way which is created, but I would love
:26:53. > :26:56.us to have another ?30 million from the funding settlement, but we do
:26:57. > :26:59.not have that. We are sitting down with everyone, all of our partners
:27:00. > :27:04.to see if our money can work harder. On the other side of the coin, that
:27:05. > :27:08.media ecology is working incredibly well. Wales now has one of the
:27:09. > :27:12.world-class centres for drama production. It has not been all bad
:27:13. > :27:16.news, there has been a lot of good news in the last few years. Now we
:27:17. > :27:22.need to make sure that in the next few years we address this need of
:27:23. > :27:33.covering Wales. To what extent are you able to say, are replaying the
:27:34. > :27:38.right role. Our ITV doing enough, are you being assertive in that
:27:39. > :27:42.way, accepting that people are having a go at their level of
:27:43. > :27:47.spending. I think it is right that we face a greater scrutiny than
:27:48. > :27:51.others. It is true that ITV used to do 12 hours a week and that is now
:27:52. > :27:56.down to five hours a week. If they did more, if Channel 4 did more, if
:27:57. > :28:01.we could have other new entrants into the market, as has happened in
:28:02. > :28:05.Scotland, that would help as well, but that would not remove the need
:28:06. > :28:10.for the BBC to play its role in addressing that.
:28:11. > :28:20.On that point, there is a strong view that says your licence payers
:28:21. > :28:24.in Wales are not getting a fair deal. If you look at the level of
:28:25. > :28:29.English-language rogue ramming, they are not getting the provision they
:28:30. > :28:33.were getting before. Really, despite the financial pressure that you talk
:28:34. > :28:39.about, even within that, you have a duty to do more than you are doing?
:28:40. > :28:43.That is a fair point about English-language programming, but
:28:44. > :28:48.the BBC is now the main player and it may have gone down, but we are
:28:49. > :28:52.providing most of the content. More widely, if you look at what Welsh
:28:53. > :28:56.audiences think about the BBC, they are the most positive in the whole
:28:57. > :29:05.of the UK. Welsh audiences watch more BBC, listen to more radio than
:29:06. > :29:10.anywhere in the BB is -- in the UK. We spend more per head in Wales than
:29:11. > :29:18.we do anywhere else in the country. We are committed to Wales, we spend
:29:19. > :29:20.more per capita, but there is this need about English-language
:29:21. > :29:21.programming and we are to talking people about how we can address it
:29:22. > :29:25.next time round. If you'd like to get
:29:26. > :29:28.in touch with us, email us or follow us on social media -
:29:29. > :29:32.the hashtag is TheWalesReport. We'll be back next week, but
:29:33. > :29:35.until then, thanks for watching.