:00:00. > :00:00.Tonight on the Wales Report, we're at Westminster for a special
:00:00. > :00:08.We'll be looking at the chancellor's measures and considering
:00:09. > :00:10.what they mean for the people of Wales.
:00:11. > :00:12.And we'll be asking how today's announcements affect the debate
:00:13. > :00:15.ahead of the elections to the National Assembly in May.
:00:16. > :00:30.Welcome to The Wales Report from Westminster after a busy
:00:31. > :00:33.Budget Day, with just seven weeks to go until Welsh voters go
:00:34. > :00:35.to the polls to elect a new National Assembly.
:00:36. > :00:38.So we'll be considering the chancellor's measures
:00:39. > :00:42.and the latest economic forecasts, and setting them in a Welsh context.
:00:43. > :00:45.And remember, you can join in the discussion on social media.
:00:46. > :00:49.The hashtag is thewalesreport. With me tonight, Alun Cairns,
:00:50. > :00:52.the Wales Office Minister and Conservative MP
:00:53. > :00:56.Nia Griffith, Shadow Secretary of State for Wales and Labour
:00:57. > :01:01.For the Liberal Democrats we have Baroness Jenny Randerson.
:01:02. > :01:05.For Plaid Cymru, Liz Saville Roberts, MP for Dwyfor Meirionydd
:01:06. > :01:08.and for UKIP we have the former MP for Rochester and Strood,
:01:09. > :01:11.Mark Reckless, who'll be standing in the May's elections in Wales.
:01:12. > :01:19.Many thanks to you all for being here this evening.
:01:20. > :01:26.The big challenge this evening is to cover quite a lot of this densely
:01:27. > :01:31.packed budget. I start with a headline that is relevant to Welsh
:01:32. > :01:37.people, the battle against childhood obesity. It is the eye-catching
:01:38. > :01:41.initiative on this sugar levy. In October the Prime Minister told us
:01:42. > :01:46.clearly this was not the most effective way of tackling obesity,
:01:47. > :01:51.what has changed? There is a whole package of
:01:52. > :01:54.policies. What I like about the way the Chancellor went about
:01:55. > :01:59.introducing it is that it is a levy on industry, not a tax on
:02:00. > :02:03.individuals. He will work with the industries so they can adapt their
:02:04. > :02:10.policies, that will respond to the demands both governments, and also
:02:11. > :02:14.the consumer. That money will go into sports and schools, encouraging
:02:15. > :02:17.people to live a healthy lifestyle. It is a win-win for the industry and
:02:18. > :02:22.the public. You are assuming that the cost will
:02:23. > :02:26.be passed on in some way. I assume that the industry itself
:02:27. > :02:30.will work with the policy, within the framework and use new
:02:31. > :02:33.innovations. There are lots of alternatives that can be used as
:02:34. > :02:36.well as reducing the taste of sugar as well.
:02:37. > :02:41.Some fizzy drinks manufacturers say that the diet version is far more
:02:42. > :02:43.popular than the sugar division. There are things that can be done
:02:44. > :02:46.now that couldn't be done a short time ago.
:02:47. > :02:52.When I spoke to a representative of the industry he wasn't very happy,
:02:53. > :02:58.as we may foresee. But he did make what was probably a reasonable
:02:59. > :03:02.point, lots of things contain sugar, they are not being locked in this
:03:03. > :03:09.way, this is far too narrow a focus. Is that fair? I don't think it is.
:03:10. > :03:15.In our childhood we used to drink water. It is a norm now for
:03:16. > :03:19.children, I'd really like to see this policy actually get the
:03:20. > :03:23.manufacturers to promote the ones that have less sugar. That's what we
:03:24. > :03:28.really want. It's not about trying to raise money from it, I don't
:03:29. > :03:30.think, as about changing the type of product that is there, drizzly
:03:31. > :03:37.available. Change people's habits. The industry
:03:38. > :03:41.says, Jenny, they have already made significant changes. They have
:03:42. > :03:45.reduced sugar locals and feel they are not getting the credit for that
:03:46. > :03:52.and this is some form of punishment. What do the Lib Dems say? I think it
:03:53. > :03:58.is an important first step. I'm pleased that the Chancellor 's and
:03:59. > :04:00.to a long campaign, and a very effective campaign, one which the
:04:01. > :04:08.Liberal Democrats in government were very much engaged in. It's the first
:04:09. > :04:13.step, you know, to taking access sugar out of a lot of our foods.
:04:14. > :04:18.The logic, I suppose, is if you do this to sugary drinks you could look
:04:19. > :04:23.at sweets, and all the rest of it. Would Plaid Cymru be in the business
:04:24. > :04:29.of looking at widening the kind of area the levy should be applied in?
:04:30. > :04:33.I'd like to say that this was a Plaid policy many years ago when
:04:34. > :04:37.others refused to countenance it. We are delighted the Treasury has
:04:38. > :04:43.adopted it as a policy. Some aspects need to come out of the wash, such
:04:44. > :04:47.as what the details are. There was talk about exempting fruit juices
:04:48. > :04:51.and milk drinks, we'll need to know exactly more about what that means.
:04:52. > :04:55.I think it's already been mentioned that this is the first step in
:04:56. > :05:00.considering what is the content of our food in terms of sugar, and
:05:01. > :05:06.fats. One of your colleagues today said,
:05:07. > :05:10.look, this is all about thing you will not drink sugary drinks and you
:05:11. > :05:15.will do more exercise, a budget she characterised as a bit of a nanny
:05:16. > :05:21.state kind of thing. Is that fair? Do you think this sugar levy, at the
:05:22. > :05:27.end of the day, does make sense not? We are opposed to this in Ukip. It
:05:28. > :05:31.is yet another new tax. Or the other parties are falling over each other
:05:32. > :05:37.to say how much they support it... It's not a tax. They call it a levy
:05:38. > :05:43.but it is a tax. Either it will raise money to help schools boards
:05:44. > :05:50.or it won't. In the long term we hope it will change behaviour. Alan
:05:51. > :05:54.said he hopes it will bring in extra money for schools boards, not that
:05:55. > :06:00.bad Wales. Can I just clarify what I said. I
:06:01. > :06:05.said that we are trying to influence and change lifestyle, it is about
:06:06. > :06:09.influencing behaviour. If they will be the extreme... It will raise half
:06:10. > :06:14.?1 billion, wanted? They will be the extreme view of
:06:15. > :06:19.those who don't want to see any influence on that basis, but this is
:06:20. > :06:23.a balance. It is a levy on companies calling on them to change their
:06:24. > :06:29.habits. They won't be much raised from last levy. Clearly, we are
:06:30. > :06:33.trying to take the industry there, carrot and stick. We have no doubt
:06:34. > :06:40.consumers will respond. But it hits the Brewer hardest. The
:06:41. > :06:44.reason it is necessary is that we have not made any headway. The
:06:45. > :06:50.problem is getting worse. The options are quite limited, it may be
:06:51. > :06:57.considered a extreme measure but is justified by the problem.
:06:58. > :07:01.It's yet another tax. Already taxes are far too high. Cardiff Bay and
:07:02. > :07:06.Westminster keep putting them up. We think taxes should come down. So
:07:07. > :07:11.how do you get children and families to realise that the fizzy drink
:07:12. > :07:14.culture is not good news? Party education. We believe people
:07:15. > :07:18.should take decisions for themselves. Families and parents are
:07:19. > :07:22.better making decisions for the young kids than the Chancellor.
:07:23. > :07:27.Because it's children we are talking about it is unrealistic to think
:07:28. > :07:31.that children are going to make decisions... Guided by parents or
:07:32. > :07:35.guardians? They can be guided by parents but
:07:36. > :07:39.they are not there all the time. They are not there in the school day
:07:40. > :07:44.when they pop into the shop on the way home and buy these sugary
:07:45. > :07:47.drinks. They don't look at the contents, do they? It's unrealistic
:07:48. > :07:52.to think that they are going to start reading the small print.
:07:53. > :07:57.To bring this to an end, if this is such a good idea for fizzy drinks,
:07:58. > :08:03.surely the Chancellor would be considering options with biscuits,
:08:04. > :08:08.cakes and other similar foods? One step at a time. We expect all
:08:09. > :08:12.industries to respond. You mentioned earlier that they were surprised,
:08:13. > :08:17.that is because they didn't see this coming. We want to influence people
:08:18. > :08:21.positively. Very importantly, at this point, I
:08:22. > :08:22.want us to consider how today's budget will affect Wales.
:08:23. > :08:25.Yesterday a new ?1.2 billion pound deal for the Cardiff Capital Region,
:08:26. > :08:28.Wales' first city deal, was announced by the Chancellor
:08:29. > :08:31.with the aim of strengthening the economy of the entire region.
:08:32. > :08:35.The deal, which includes plans to build a South Wales Metro,
:08:36. > :08:39.is to improve public transport links for nearly half of Wales' population
:08:40. > :08:43.and make the area more attractive to businesses.
:08:44. > :08:46.Professor Brian Morgan, a member of the Cardiff Capital
:08:47. > :08:49.Region Advisory Board, gives his assessment of the state
:08:50. > :08:51.of the Welsh economy, and asks if city deals
:08:52. > :09:17.There is quite a big prosperity gap, at the moment there is a 30%
:09:18. > :09:22.prosperity gap with the rest of the British Isles. These companies are,
:09:23. > :09:28.and have been, powering ahead for the last 20 years. That is the same
:09:29. > :09:30.across Europe. We are quite low in relation to the UK and the European
:09:31. > :09:43.average. All decisions are taken within
:09:44. > :09:48.Wales, and what that means in practice, is that decisions are
:09:49. > :09:54.delayed, politicised, we have a plethora of pro bono organisations.
:09:55. > :09:58.They are talking shops. They have no resources and no powers. We never
:09:59. > :10:02.seem to get the delivery of these economic strategy is right. In
:10:03. > :10:07.Scotland, for example, they are very similar to Wales, but they have
:10:08. > :10:13.agencies like Scottish enterprise, the Scottish futures trust that
:10:14. > :10:17.actually deliver economic development, but also, you have a
:10:18. > :10:20.strategic vision which is not so politicised as inside the
:10:21. > :10:23.Government. They take a longer term vision. That's far better than just
:10:24. > :10:30.holding everything inside the Government. We are inherently risk
:10:31. > :10:34.adverse truck should do the job, it's never going to work that way.
:10:35. > :10:41.It is about time the Welsh government learnt that lesson. One
:10:42. > :10:48.of the answers is to create three development corporations across
:10:49. > :10:53.Wales, a city region Corporation in Cardiff, Swansea and North Wales.
:10:54. > :10:58.Organisations are one step removed from government, but they need
:10:59. > :11:02.powers to deliver over longer term. The city deal offers a great
:11:03. > :11:07.opportunity. ?1.3 billion that could change the way economic development
:11:08. > :11:13.is delivered in Cardiff City. However, it is wrong to hand over
:11:14. > :11:17.1.3 billion and deliver ten projects across ten local authorities. We
:11:18. > :11:22.need a proper structure for the city region that will look carefully over
:11:23. > :11:26.the longer term at which of these projects will make a real difference
:11:27. > :11:30.in closing that prosperity gap with the rest of the UK. If we don't do
:11:31. > :11:36.that, we will have missed an opportunity.
:11:37. > :11:42.Plenty of interesting thoughts there. Our thanks to Professor Brian
:11:43. > :11:49.Morgan. Meow, let's talk about city deals. This will be a big change
:11:50. > :11:53.from Cardiff, do you welcome it? Certainly. We want to see that sort
:11:54. > :11:57.of investment go ahead. I want to set the record straight
:11:58. > :12:00.that we have had record investment in Wales and the economy doing
:12:01. > :12:06.better in terms of anywhere outside London. Those are not my words.
:12:07. > :12:12.Wales has been doing well. What we really want now is a lot more. We
:12:13. > :12:14.want concrete puzzles for Swansea and North Wales, particularly
:12:15. > :12:18.disappointing is the fact that we don't have a decision on the tidal
:12:19. > :12:23.lagoon in Swansea. That would give a huge boost to the economy. I'd like
:12:24. > :12:28.to see that decision sooner, rather than later.
:12:29. > :12:33.So two important things there, the Cardiff deal which we will come to,
:12:34. > :12:37.and I want to ask about Swansea and North Wales, but the tidal lagoon,
:12:38. > :12:41.what is going on there? The Government has announced a
:12:42. > :12:44.review into how it assesses innovative projects which allows the
:12:45. > :12:50.company to respond because it's got more than one. The date has only
:12:51. > :12:54.been shed on one in detail and then we need to look at how we assess
:12:55. > :12:58.them and allow the company to bring forward its case. This allows the
:12:59. > :13:01.company to make the case in a much more coherent way, and hopefully the
:13:02. > :13:05.Government to respond. There was suggestion that as a
:13:06. > :13:08.government you had cooled off on this idea, looked at it and thought,
:13:09. > :13:15.does this really make sense? At cooled off? Absolutely not. The
:13:16. > :13:19.Prime Minister was asked a question earlier today, and he responded in a
:13:20. > :13:24.very positive way. This review must be seen in a positive light. It is
:13:25. > :13:27.an opportunity for the company to make its case but for the Government
:13:28. > :13:32.to look at how it assesses innovative schemes. It's got to be
:13:33. > :13:35.value for money because those people who are calling this innovation are
:13:36. > :13:40.also complaining about high energy costs for industry. You can't have
:13:41. > :13:42.it both ways. You got to make sure it fits the demands of energy needs
:13:43. > :13:53.as well as meeting expectations. City deals, are we likely to see
:13:54. > :14:00.something similar for Swansea and North Wales? We can talk about it
:14:01. > :14:04.until the cows come home. The Chancellor is keen to open
:14:05. > :14:07.negotiations for both. Let's recognise the success of the Cardiff
:14:08. > :14:13.city deal and the negotiations that face because this is ?500 million of
:14:14. > :14:19.UK taxpayer money over and above the Barnett block. This is a delivery of
:14:20. > :14:23.a major project for over the previous decade leading up to 2010
:14:24. > :14:27.we did not see any major infrastructure schemes coming
:14:28. > :14:30.forward. We add that to the Swansea City deal potential and the North
:14:31. > :14:34.Wales growth year we would like to see with that will plug North Wales
:14:35. > :14:39.into the northern powerhouse, on top of the Severn Bridge tolls that was
:14:40. > :14:44.announced today which really says Wales is open for business and that
:14:45. > :14:48.is sending the right message and encouraging more cross-border deals
:14:49. > :14:52.that we want to see. When you look at this city deal for Cardiff, which
:14:53. > :15:01.is worth a lot of money, potentially Swansea and Northway, are you then
:15:02. > :15:03.happy to say it is a good example of partnership work between the Welsh
:15:04. > :15:08.Government and Westminster? I welcome what has happened in
:15:09. > :15:11.relation to Cardiff but there is no certainty about what has been
:15:12. > :15:15.proposed for Swansea and it is a matter of opening the door to
:15:16. > :15:21.discussions on North Wales. We need more concrete proposals than this.
:15:22. > :15:24.We're talking about infrastructure proposals, we really need to be much
:15:25. > :15:28.more ambitious. By Cymru is talking about enough cash to national
:15:29. > :15:34.infrastructure commission. We need to look at how this could be put
:15:35. > :15:38.into effect much better. If we compared what is being mentioned
:15:39. > :15:43.with what is being offered in far greater detail in England, there is
:15:44. > :15:45.really no comparison. Wales gets its money through the Barnett formula.
:15:46. > :15:52.All of these initiatives are over and above the normal allocation we
:15:53. > :15:56.have seen over the previous 17 years of Labour administration in Cardiff
:15:57. > :15:59.Bay. There is the city deal for Cardiff, the commitment to a city
:16:00. > :16:04.deal in Swansea and the development of the potential of a growth dealer
:16:05. > :16:07.North Wales on top of the other schemes that have been announced
:16:08. > :16:12.such as the support for veterans in Swansea, on top of the seven tolls,
:16:13. > :16:16.these are in addition to what Wales will have had over 13 years in
:16:17. > :16:22.Westminster with Labour and 17 years in Cardiff Bay. There was not one
:16:23. > :16:25.major scheme that was driven by the seven -- Westminster government that
:16:26. > :16:29.delivered anything in Wales. Look at the M4 around Newport. We are still
:16:30. > :16:33.waiting for any movement around that in spite of the Chancellor making
:16:34. > :16:38.?500 million available three years ago. The Welsh Government could
:16:39. > :16:42.invest far better throughout Wales but not everything has been devolved
:16:43. > :16:45.to Wales and there are considerable responsibilities for the Westminster
:16:46. > :16:54.government that I would input -- expect greater investment. ?2.8
:16:55. > :16:57.billion worth of investment... We are still waiting for it. It has
:16:58. > :17:03.been buzz bomb. It is taking place as we speak. Pylons are going down,
:17:04. > :17:11.cables are being fitted. We are still waiting for the plans for that
:17:12. > :17:15.as well. Just on electrification of rail lines, when will that be done?
:17:16. > :17:21.The line to Swansea, when will that be completed? It will be open and up
:17:22. > :17:27.and running to Cardiff by 2019 and work will have started before the
:17:28. > :17:30.Cardiff route is opened, the pylons will be in the process of being
:17:31. > :17:34.fitted but even if we threw more money at the link between Cardiff
:17:35. > :17:38.and Swansea, we could not get it quicker. It is about the engineering
:17:39. > :17:45.challenges that exist. It will come early after the 2019 opening of the
:17:46. > :17:51.line to Cardiff. I am foreign tiering to work on that section of
:17:52. > :17:55.line myself by the way. But seriously, there is a reluctance may
:17:56. > :17:58.be is there? Do you feel a reluctance to give credit where
:17:59. > :18:02.these big projects are all we get bogged down in arguments between
:18:03. > :18:12.Cardiff Bay and Westminster? I do think that the electrification is...
:18:13. > :18:14.Will be a huge benefit to. I welcome strongly the Cardiff City deal,
:18:15. > :18:24.although it has taken rather a long time. I want to see something more
:18:25. > :18:29.on Swansea. I certainly want to see more than one sentence in the budget
:18:30. > :18:35.about North Wales. But the thing that I think that the Chancellor has
:18:36. > :18:40.really missed a trick on of huge importance to Wales is he could
:18:41. > :18:46.announce the abolition of the Severn Bridge tolls. That takes no time.
:18:47. > :18:51.The end of the concession period in a couple of years' time. Wales could
:18:52. > :18:57.be toll-free. That is a tax on jobs in Wales, a tax on people doing
:18:58. > :19:04.business in Wales and on Monday, I asked the Minister in the Lords a
:19:05. > :19:08.question on this, his answer was, well, it is ?63 million that needs
:19:09. > :19:12.to be paid back to the UK taxpayer. We are talking about a piece of
:19:13. > :19:19.motorway. Who else has to pay a toll on their motorway? Fair point? I do
:19:20. > :19:24.not accept it. There was no pressure when the Lib Dems were in government
:19:25. > :19:28.on this policy. We are committed to having the tolls from 2018, as soon
:19:29. > :19:32.as it comes back into public ownership. There will still be a
:19:33. > :19:37.debt of ?64 million on it. As soon as it comes into public ownership,
:19:38. > :19:39.we will have it. The hauliers and the Federation of Small Businesses
:19:40. > :19:43.have responded fantastically well today. We are delighted. But there
:19:44. > :19:46.will still be an obligation to maintenance and there is a long
:19:47. > :19:51.history across the UK where there are bridges or links over estuaries
:19:52. > :19:55.and similar infrastructure such as the Humber and the Dartford
:19:56. > :19:58.Crossing, there is a small toll but that must be reasonable and that is
:19:59. > :20:02.exactly what we are committing too. There is a long history across the
:20:03. > :20:06.UK Government 's building bridges, tolling them, and saying those tolls
:20:07. > :20:09.would go when they are paid for and then breaking their word, as the
:20:10. > :20:14.government has done today on the Severn Bridge tolls. That is going
:20:15. > :20:23.to run out in terms of paying for those constructions... The debt even
:20:24. > :20:27.remains in 2018. This debt has been made up by the Treasury. I am very
:20:28. > :20:31.sceptical. It is half the amount that was written off on the Humber
:20:32. > :20:36.Bridge and it is half... You have the windfall gain in VAT. I think
:20:37. > :20:41.Mark is demonstrating his ignorance of the policy and religion to Wales.
:20:42. > :20:46.Clearly this has been in place and it has been increasing by inflation
:20:47. > :20:50.ever since its inception. Even if you go back pre-1997 when the bridge
:20:51. > :20:53.was instructed Labour did nothing over their period in government that
:20:54. > :20:59.could well have brought some changes about it. The moment we do, we will
:21:00. > :21:03.be introducing changes, we have committed today to cutting it by
:21:04. > :21:08.50%. The policy has been welcomed far and wide. There's Labour
:21:09. > :21:14.accepted share of responsible is he? We had to finish off paying the
:21:15. > :21:18.bridge. When that concession comes to an end, we absolutely 100% expect
:21:19. > :21:22.the price to come down, which is obviously what is good to happen in
:21:23. > :21:27.2018 because for a start, the VAT comes off. But as the Welsh affairs
:21:28. > :21:32.committee has shown, the Treasury has done very well out of the VAT
:21:33. > :21:36.having been imposed. The Welsh Government wanted evolution of the
:21:37. > :21:43.toll. We knew that it would be a cash cow. There is a maintenance
:21:44. > :21:47.obligation on it and a debt that remains will stop I wish people
:21:48. > :21:52.would write welcome a 50% cut in terms of the toll that was being
:21:53. > :22:00.introduced. We need to see the money coming back to Wales to help
:22:01. > :22:03.businesses in Wales. About... A big slice of the many people will be
:22:04. > :22:08.paying in tolls will be for the cost of collecting the tolls. Just accept
:22:09. > :22:13.that the taxpayer does not have to pay the taxpayer back, which is
:22:14. > :22:17.essentially what Alun Cairns is arguing for and you let that
:22:18. > :22:22.relatively small debt, so-called debt, life. Ukip would scrap the
:22:23. > :22:26.tolls and we would pay for the maintenance which would be
:22:27. > :22:31.physically a pound a car, we would pay for that, 10 million a year by
:22:32. > :22:36.scrapping the ?73 million the Welsh Government is planning to spend next
:22:37. > :22:40.year on climate change projects. Up 50% in just a year. We need to get
:22:41. > :22:47.rid of those tolls. They are attacks on doing business with Wales. That
:22:48. > :22:52.is what Ukip would do. Just focus again, the all-important subject,
:22:53. > :22:55.lots of our viewers want to talk about, how we regenerate the Welsh
:22:56. > :23:01.economy. We have talked about Cardiff and the city deal. I am not
:23:02. > :23:12.sure whether Mark think that is a good package of measures? Devolution
:23:13. > :23:16.should not end at Cardiff Bay. When for example we talk about an
:23:17. > :23:19.enterprise zone in Port Talbot, we know there are issues, employment
:23:20. > :23:25.concerns, it is just one of several areas in Wales where money could go
:23:26. > :23:28.in and be spent in more imaginative ways, again, what are the prospects
:23:29. > :23:34.for a fully funded properly constituted enterprise zone in
:23:35. > :23:38.places like Port Talbot? We are working closely with the Welsh
:23:39. > :23:41.Government and we have been in negotiations and we hope to see some
:23:42. > :23:45.movement on this very soon. I would say that under the city deals that
:23:46. > :23:48.have taken place in England there has generally been a greater
:23:49. > :23:53.devolution process and that is to the community itself and the local
:23:54. > :23:57.authorities around it. In Wales, as Professor Brian Morgan rightly said,
:23:58. > :24:00.there is a centralisation of power in Cardiff. If you are in North
:24:01. > :24:04.Wales come you are just as far away from that centralisation of power as
:24:05. > :24:08.you were in the old days when it was in Westminster. We want to see
:24:09. > :24:11.further devolution to the authorities to come up with the
:24:12. > :24:14.innovation we are seeing in Manchester and Newcastle, Sheffield
:24:15. > :24:20.and Ipswich. We want to see that same sort of innovation. What is
:24:21. > :24:26.stopping you? That is the Welsh Government structure. Absolutely.
:24:27. > :24:29.They are not allowing that greater devolution in the same way that the
:24:30. > :24:35.UK command is encouraging in England. It is already happening in
:24:36. > :24:41.Swansea. Port Talbot is part of the Swansea City region. We are seeing
:24:42. > :24:45.centralisation to Cardiff. To be fair to the Swansea City Bay region,
:24:46. > :24:48.they have done a huge amount of working drawing in the private
:24:49. > :24:51.sector and it would be great now with the Westminster government
:24:52. > :24:54.could respond to that and see that they have some very exciting plans
:24:55. > :25:00.and they are really trying to make this region work and bring in a lot
:25:01. > :25:05.of private sector money. I think Westminster should be responding. We
:25:06. > :25:09.really do need a change of culture amongst those officers in charge of
:25:10. > :25:13.developing the economy because they are so risk-averse and again what we
:25:14. > :25:20.have been discussing here today's do with cities and the north-east.
:25:21. > :25:23.Where does that leave rural Wales got our tourism is a fantastic
:25:24. > :25:29.industry but we need more than that. The average salaries are dropping
:25:30. > :25:34.year-on-year in those areas. What is the answer? We need an organisation
:25:35. > :25:39.with the same now sound business sense and ambition as we had the
:25:40. > :25:46.WDA. You called for the winding up of the WDA. We are calling for some
:25:47. > :25:51.thing else in its place. I think I was one of the only people who
:25:52. > :25:55.defended the WDA. In the area that I represent, simply nothing is coming
:25:56. > :26:00.back to us except proposals for tourism and cuts to farming incomes.
:26:01. > :26:05.People will say the answer to that is to create another public body and
:26:06. > :26:09.they will think, come on, is that really the answer? We're not
:26:10. > :26:14.pretending that the problems of rural Wales are easy to solve but is
:26:15. > :26:19.a new body likely to be the way to fashion something? We need a culture
:26:20. > :26:23.that is aimed at getting money out of businesses. We need to see money
:26:24. > :26:30.going out and resulting in real jobs. Businesses in North will have
:26:31. > :26:35.got together and are making a real go of it. We have nearly been
:26:36. > :26:39.defeated by the clock. There are five of you here today. I would like
:26:40. > :26:47.to ask each of you for a kind of one sentence summary of where the budget
:26:48. > :26:56.leaves Wales and what you think the challenges are? I really do mean one
:26:57. > :26:59.sentence. The Cardiff City deal is good. We would like to go further
:27:00. > :27:07.and evolve economic development from the civil servants in Cardiff to the
:27:08. > :27:10.local councils. The Chancellor talked about a devolution revolution
:27:11. > :27:13.and yet cities like Manchester will have powers such as criminal Justice
:27:14. > :27:19.and policing, Wales does not. Why not? There are steps in the right
:27:20. > :27:25.direction but we see yet again Wales limping along behind where other
:27:26. > :27:30.cities in England have led and we will not catch up in terms of our
:27:31. > :27:35.wealth, in terms of wages within Wales until we are taking the
:27:36. > :27:41.initiative and the initiative here, I believe, starts with simplifying
:27:42. > :27:45.things, trusting local people more and above all, getting rid of the
:27:46. > :27:48.Severn Bridge tolls. I am very disappointed that we do not have
:27:49. > :27:51.more for Swansea and North Wales and I would like to have seen a lot more
:27:52. > :27:54.there because growth in the economy is what we really need and the other
:27:55. > :27:58.worrying factor is the way that disabled people are being hit very
:27:59. > :28:02.hard in this budget and I do not think that the Chancellor is being
:28:03. > :28:06.at all fed to the most vulnerable in our society. The Chancellor has
:28:07. > :28:09.given Wales a transformation opportunity. There is the seven
:28:10. > :28:13.tolls cut, the city deal for Cardiff already arranged, commit and is for
:28:14. > :28:17.Swansea and a North Wales growth deal, it is now up to the Welsh
:28:18. > :28:21.government to start delivering for Wales and overcome issues such as
:28:22. > :28:25.the M4 round report which has been called for the many years. Why do I
:28:26. > :28:26.think this debate is gone to be rain for the next few weeks Castle Market
:28:27. > :28:29.as good as sea wall. That's it for tonight,
:28:30. > :28:31.we'll be back during the election campaign with a number
:28:32. > :28:33.of special debates. If you'd like to have your say
:28:34. > :28:36.on how Wales' health service and Education system are run,
:28:37. > :28:39.or you want to be part of the audience for a special debate
:28:40. > :28:42.with the party leaders then do Email us at thewalesreport@bbc.co.uk
:28:43. > :28:47.and we're on social media Diolch am eich cwmni,
:28:48. > :28:52.nos da, good night.