:00:13. > :00:20.Unprecedented scenes at the Senedd. There is deadlock over who will be
:00:21. > :00:24.the new First Minister. Nobody seems to want to back down. The only thing
:00:25. > :00:28.that has been resolved is who will be the group leader of Ukip, it will
:00:29. > :00:38.be Neil Hamilton. We will hear from them. Stay tuned to The Wales
:00:39. > :00:42.Report. Good evening. Welcome to The Wales
:00:43. > :00:47.Report. What a date has been here at the Senedd. After last week's
:00:48. > :00:50.assembly elections, labour was the largest single party, everyone
:00:51. > :00:53.assumed that Carwyn Jones was a shoo-in for the post of First
:00:54. > :00:58.Minister. They were wrong. We would like to join in on this
:00:59. > :01:04.conversation. Here is the hashtag. Today has been full of surprises. We
:01:05. > :01:06.got all the drama would centre around the election of the Presiding
:01:07. > :01:11.Officer and Deputy Presiding Officer. Elin Jones and Ann Jones
:01:12. > :01:16.Gorelick -- elected with relative little fuss. There were reports that
:01:17. > :01:20.a Leanne Wood would challenge Labour's Carwyn Jones for the
:01:21. > :01:26.position of First Minister, that was what happened in the end. The Tories
:01:27. > :01:30.and Ukip supported her, leaving the two candidates deadlocked at 29
:01:31. > :01:34.votes each. And what was by anyone's reckoning a challenge for the new
:01:35. > :01:41.Presiding Officer, Elin Jones was left but with no choice to adjourn
:01:42. > :01:46.proceedings. Well, Johnny May now, Labour's Aled Davies, Darren Millar
:01:47. > :01:51.from the Conservatives and Plaid Cymru's Simon Thomas. Simon Thomas,
:01:52. > :01:55.Labour was the largest party in last week's election. Why did Plaid Cymru
:01:56. > :02:01.nominate a Leanne Wood? The largest party but not commanding
:02:02. > :02:04.the majority. We believe that Leanne Wood was the best candidate for
:02:05. > :02:08.First Minister. It is important both for the assembly as a parliament and
:02:09. > :02:13.for politics in Wales that there is a genuine challenge to Labour's
:02:14. > :02:16.assumption of going into a minority government. Carwyn Jones says he
:02:17. > :02:21.wants to form a minority administration, they could do that
:02:22. > :02:25.also. It is a legitimate thing. We can challenge him. We have the
:02:26. > :02:29.support of other parties in the assembly. In that sense, we have
:02:30. > :02:32.wider cross party support. But the support of the parties you
:02:33. > :02:38.got ready to Tories and Ukip. The parties which Leanne Wood that
:02:39. > :02:41.falters only I during the election campaign about and told them that in
:02:42. > :02:44.no circumstances would she do deals with them.
:02:45. > :02:49.There is no deal, this is about the election of the First Minister and
:02:50. > :02:53.it is heavily entitled for those parties and they can justify it for
:02:54. > :02:56.themselves as to why they wanted a challenge in the assembly and to
:02:57. > :02:58.ensure that there was a proper election and challenge in the
:02:59. > :03:02.assembly. This is pure theatre, they were not
:03:03. > :03:06.expecting downward to get elected and then have to abide to be in the
:03:07. > :03:10.hands of two parties she promised not to work with? This is poor
:03:11. > :03:14.theatre, is it? Now it is not. This is about the
:03:15. > :03:19.assembly making its choice for the election of First Minister. The
:03:20. > :03:24.people of Wales want a good First Minister.
:03:25. > :03:29.Was Leanne Wood breaking Hogwarts to the voters to be First Minister?
:03:30. > :03:32.It is a real attempt to be First Minister.
:03:33. > :03:38.She wants to be any hands of Ukip and the Tories?
:03:39. > :03:41.The first thing is to get the confidence of the old assembly. It
:03:42. > :03:45.is important that today we noticed that Leanne Wood did not get a
:03:46. > :03:49.majority vote, we except that. But the Labour Party must accept they
:03:50. > :03:52.did not get the majority vote for the assembly. All parties must go
:03:53. > :03:57.away and think about how they can elect a government that can, and the
:03:58. > :04:00.wider support within the assembly. Aled Davies, Labour did not work
:04:01. > :04:06.hard enough to get through this vote, did they?
:04:07. > :04:13.Many people will be incredulous at what we have just heard. Plaid Cymru
:04:14. > :04:17.voters were told that they would never come to any sort of deal with
:04:18. > :04:21.the Conservative Party Aubert Ukip. That is what they were told.
:04:22. > :04:25.But what about how the Labour Party have approached this?
:04:26. > :04:28.On the very first opportunity in this new December, Plaid Cymru have
:04:29. > :04:32.looked the voters in the eye and broken their word. That is something
:04:33. > :04:37.that is a fundamental breach of trust in our democracy.
:04:38. > :04:39.Why did you not work harder to support the first Mr's election
:04:40. > :04:43.today? I think Carwyn Jones has a clear
:04:44. > :04:47.mandate to be First Minister. He does not have a clear mandate
:04:48. > :04:52.committee is the largest party but he does not have a clear mandate.
:04:53. > :04:56.No party has more than half of the seats that Welsh Labour have. We
:04:57. > :05:02.have a clear mandate to govern, but how we govern it a different matter
:05:03. > :05:04.and I except that you have to govern differently as a minority than you
:05:05. > :05:09.would do with a majority. We accept and understand that. However, we
:05:10. > :05:13.have a clear mandate to be in government and to lead government.
:05:14. > :05:17.If the other parties you want to ignore what the people of Wales said
:05:18. > :05:22.last week, put aside the promises they made...
:05:23. > :05:25.In the first test of that, you have failed to do it by even securing
:05:26. > :05:28.support for the First Minister and get him through.
:05:29. > :05:35.We spoke to Plaid Cymru, they were not interested. Kirsty Williams
:05:36. > :05:40.voted according to her principles. She said before the election last
:05:41. > :05:47.week, we will not vote with Ukip and the Conservatives. She kept to her
:05:48. > :05:50.principles. Plaid Cymru went against their principles. The electorate can
:05:51. > :05:54.look at that. The Welsh Labour Party is committed to working and to win
:05:55. > :05:57.the referendum on Europe in a few weeks' time to ensure...
:05:58. > :06:02.That is a completely different story. You do not have a government
:06:03. > :06:05.jet, maybe you should focus on that first.
:06:06. > :06:08.To focus on the future of the steel industry, a jobs plan, to ensure
:06:09. > :06:13.that we have employment in Wales, to focus on our communities.
:06:14. > :06:16.You will not do any of that if you are not in government. Darren
:06:17. > :06:23.Millar, why did you throw your bottom with Plaid Cymru? You are not
:06:24. > :06:29.natural bedfellows, are you? The Labour Party does not have any
:06:30. > :06:36.divine right to rule in Wales. It walks around with its chest out,
:06:37. > :06:40.particularly the First Minister, trying to suggest that it has a
:06:41. > :06:44.mandate to be able to govern Wales for the next five years and clearly
:06:45. > :06:47.it does not. Today we have shown that it cannot take the Senate for
:06:48. > :06:50.granted. This is about bringing them down a
:06:51. > :06:54.peg or two? Not really. We have always said that
:06:55. > :06:59.we believe Wales would be better off with an alternative to a labour
:07:00. > :07:03.government. We are prepared to work with whoever else we need to work
:07:04. > :07:07.with to make that happen. What do you want in Plaid Cymru to
:07:08. > :07:11.end this deadlock? What can Labour offer you?
:07:12. > :07:15.Firstly, they have not offered us anything. Neither have the other
:07:16. > :07:21.parties. We told the Labour Party yesterday that we would nominate
:07:22. > :07:24.Leanne Wood for First Minister. It was Carwyn Jones decision to go
:07:25. > :07:30.ahead today. He did not get the support... We will not be having
:07:31. > :07:35.negotiations in public. But we will be open to speak with other parties
:07:36. > :07:41.in that sense and he will understand what other parties think...
:07:42. > :07:46.Agreement on what? Help? We can not do it publicly, because
:07:47. > :07:49.when we do have those discussions, you will understand what is
:07:50. > :07:56.happening. Darren Millar's point is very important. Labour did not get
:07:57. > :07:59.that vote. Any government which is elected by this assembly, it will
:08:00. > :08:03.have to be a minority government reliant upon reaching out to other
:08:04. > :08:07.parties. We except that at Plaid Cymru. The Labour Party has not
:08:08. > :08:10.accepted that. I said that in answer to your first
:08:11. > :08:16.question. What they bought today does it gives
:08:17. > :08:24.some breathing space for people to deflect on where things are at. It
:08:25. > :08:29.lets them think about a strategy for getting a government together. All
:08:30. > :08:31.parties must consider their approach to these things. At the end of the
:08:32. > :08:34.day, the Labour Party got it hopelessly wrong assuming that
:08:35. > :08:39.Carwyn Jones would be able to walk into the job of First Minister and
:08:40. > :08:44.from the government. It is incumbent upon all parties to reflect at where
:08:45. > :08:48.they are and as I have said, we will look at how some sort of arrangement
:08:49. > :08:53.can be ironed out so that we can have an alternative to what has been
:08:54. > :08:58.a pure River Clyst -- administration for the last five years.
:08:59. > :09:01.Alun Davies, it is a different environment for the Labour Party
:09:02. > :09:05.this time around, that much is clear today. What are you prepared to
:09:06. > :09:09.offer to get one of these other parties on side so that you can
:09:10. > :09:12.actually form a government? I am not in a position to make those
:09:13. > :09:16.offers on this programme this evening. I would expect all
:09:17. > :09:19.politicians of all political parties to deliver on the promises they made
:09:20. > :09:25.to the electorate last week. One week ago people voted to elect a new
:09:26. > :09:28.government in Wales. In my constituency and in many others,
:09:29. > :09:32.Plaid Cymru made it clear they would not under any circumstances do a
:09:33. > :09:38.deal with the Conservatives. On the first opportunity they have, they
:09:39. > :09:41.have broken that promise. You are fighting an old war. What do
:09:42. > :09:47.you want to do? What I want to do is to do what we
:09:48. > :09:52.were elected to do. To protect the steel industry. We will protect the
:09:53. > :09:57.jobs of people. Not if you are not in government.
:09:58. > :10:00.That is what people elected Labour government to do.
:10:01. > :10:04.But they have not elected a Labour government.
:10:05. > :10:08.We have a clear mandate to govern. If people want to reject that, that
:10:09. > :10:12.is their right. I would be delighted to face the electorate again on this
:10:13. > :10:16.matter and ask if they would vote for me who kept my word. Or vote for
:10:17. > :10:22.Plaid Cymru who broke their work at the first opportunity they had.
:10:23. > :10:26.There has not been a deal between Plaid Cymru and the Conservatives.
:10:27. > :10:31.But there would have to be if you would indefinitely support Leanne
:10:32. > :10:35.Wood as First Minister. We have had a vote, there has been a
:10:36. > :10:38.logjam, both sides are at loggerheads and that gives some
:10:39. > :10:45.breathing space for everyone to reflect upon the positions and icy
:10:46. > :10:47.weather there is an opportunity of a different sort of government in
:10:48. > :10:51.Wales, what I believe is needed. What is your response to the point
:10:52. > :10:54.made by Aled Davies that there are serious issues facing Wales and that
:10:55. > :10:56.which ever way it works, it is the will of the electorate that some
:10:57. > :11:00.sort of government is formed and that these sort of delays, whilst
:11:01. > :11:03.they might be entertaining for people with political interest like
:11:04. > :11:07.myself who came there to watch today, it is all theatre and that
:11:08. > :11:11.what we need is a government who can get on with substance. You have to
:11:12. > :11:16.read that, what you say to -- Alun Davies.
:11:17. > :11:19.It is not all theatre. We have UK Government trying to sort out the
:11:20. > :11:24.steel prices and working hard. Oliver parties are working with the
:11:25. > :11:26.UK Government to get the best outcome for the people who are
:11:27. > :11:32.having their jobs under threat to the various Tata Steel sites. We
:11:33. > :11:37.continue to do that regardless of how politics to form a government.
:11:38. > :11:41.Briefly, Simon Thomas, 28 days to elect a First Minister, will it take
:11:42. > :11:43.that long can be resolved it next week?
:11:44. > :11:47.I am sure we can resolve it quickly. week?
:11:48. > :11:49.There is still a First Minister but it needs other parties to speak to
:11:50. > :11:52.each it needs other parties to speak to
:11:53. > :12:03.grace to have those it needs other parties to speak to
:12:04. > :12:08.the proper recognition that this is a new parliament with the proper
:12:09. > :12:10.challenge to the Labour Party. This is pure theatre and those
:12:11. > :12:14.people did not vote for those things.
:12:15. > :12:19.Thank you all for joining me. The one opposition am who did
:12:20. > :12:24.support Carwyn Jones for the post of First Minister was Kirsty Williams.
:12:25. > :12:27.She is the sole Lib Dem in the chamber and she joins me now.
:12:28. > :12:30.Welcome to the programme and thank you for joining us. What is your
:12:31. > :12:34.view as to what happened in their today?
:12:35. > :12:38.I think it is not the finest today?
:12:39. > :12:43.for the assembly. This is a very serious issue in forming a
:12:44. > :12:49.government to take Wales forward. We have the steel industry that is
:12:50. > :12:50.under threat at the moment, we have immense pressure in our National
:12:51. > :12:55.Health Service. There are many Health Service. There are many
:12:56. > :12:56.things that the people of Wales meet the government to do to get
:12:57. > :13:04.things that the people of Wales meet carry out. I was not sent here to
:13:05. > :13:08.support a rag coalition, including Ukip. That is not my politics. I do
:13:09. > :13:13.not want that Ukip. That is not my politics. I do
:13:14. > :13:15.what happens here in Wales and therefore, I voted for what I
:13:16. > :13:18.what happens here in Wales and proposition of a government. I do
:13:19. > :13:38.not Plaid said they did not do a deal,
:13:39. > :13:40.they simply put Leanne Wood up as a candidate. Do you see a way of
:13:41. > :13:50.resolving this? I have the utmost respect for Leanne Wood and she
:13:51. > :13:54.personally had an amazing result in winning the Rhondda seat, but the
:13:55. > :13:57.reality is with the number of seats that Plaid has got, they cannot be a
:13:58. > :14:02.government that Plaid has got, they cannot be a
:14:03. > :14:07.believe that Leanne Wood thinks that either. They can only be a
:14:08. > :14:11.government if that includes working with the Conservatives and Ukip.
:14:12. > :14:15.Throughout this campaign Leanne said she was not prepared to do that, so
:14:16. > :14:23.I am not sure what today has been about. What I do
:14:24. > :14:28.I am not sure what today has been party is the Labour Party. I wish
:14:29. > :14:31.I am not sure what today has been was different, but it is not and we
:14:32. > :14:36.had to create a government to take Wales forward over the next 5 years.
:14:37. > :14:38.Did you do a deal with Labour to give them your vote?
:14:39. > :14:44.Did you do a deal with Labour to done a deal with the Labour Party.
:14:45. > :14:48.My decision today was based on the reality of the election result and
:14:49. > :14:48.My decision today was based on the will not do a
:14:49. > :14:53.My decision today was based on the said, a ragbag coalition that
:14:54. > :14:58.My decision today was based on the influence to Ukip. It is not
:14:59. > :15:02.politics and I will not do it. I understand that, but just to
:15:03. > :15:10.clarify, we should not be expecting to see you in the Cabinet, assuming
:15:11. > :15:17.we get a cabinet. I met with Carwyn Jones and Leanne Wood and Andrew
:15:18. > :15:23.Davies. But no, the basis of my vote was not based on that. The drama was
:15:24. > :15:33.around Ukip and its new leader. Neil was not based on that. The drama was
:15:34. > :15:35.Hamilton was elected. It was a big disappointment for Nathan Gill, who
:15:36. > :15:39.only last week led disappointment for Nathan Gill, who
:15:40. > :15:45.greatest ever electoral success. Jonny May now is the new Ukip
:15:46. > :15:47.greatest ever electoral success. Neil Hamilton. Thank you for joining
:15:48. > :15:51.us. Would now be an appropriate time for you to pay tribute to Nathan
:15:52. > :15:56.Gill to leading for you to pay tribute to Nathan
:15:57. > :16:00.electoral success? Nathan Gill remains the leader of Ukip in Wales.
:16:01. > :16:07.Nothing has changed there. We have just formed a group under the
:16:08. > :16:09.Assembly rules and elected a leader. It is horses for courses. I am not
:16:10. > :16:16.Assembly rules and elected a leader. challenging Nathan Ford
:16:17. > :16:17.Assembly rules and elected a leader. people put a lot of
:16:18. > :16:22.Assembly rules and elected a leader. the campaign and we scored a
:16:23. > :16:29.stunning success. That is its own reward. He might feel a little
:16:30. > :16:33.rueful of the reward he has had. Some people think it is a bizarre
:16:34. > :16:44.way to reward the successor. David Rowlands compared it to be sacking
:16:45. > :16:51.at Leicester of Ron Young. These analogies are not helpful. I ran an
:16:52. > :16:55.election campaign for Ukip myself, I ran the European campaign, and what
:16:56. > :17:00.is relevant for the campaign trail is not necessarily relevant indeed
:17:01. > :17:06.dogfight of an Assembly chamber, such as we have here. I have been a
:17:07. > :17:10.long-time member of Parliament, a cabinet minister, a member of the EU
:17:11. > :17:16.Council. I have a depth and range of experience no 1 else has. I don't
:17:17. > :17:20.know why in individual cases people voted for me. Things must be
:17:21. > :17:26.uppermost in their -- uppermost in their mind. You came out of a group
:17:27. > :17:31.meeting today. How would you describe it? We were consensual and
:17:32. > :17:38.United. There will be no problem going forward. No factions? Nathan
:17:39. > :17:45.Gill is happy with you? You will have two asking that. I would be
:17:46. > :17:50.surprised if he is completely happy with me, but of course he is
:17:51. > :17:54.disappointed. I understand that. I have experienced the hurly-burly of
:17:55. > :17:58.political life in a way that few others have in the cause of my
:17:59. > :18:05.lifetime. You have to get on with it and make the best of it. Lick your
:18:06. > :18:10.wounds and fight another day. The Ukip UK leader Nigel Farage has
:18:11. > :18:13.described what happened to Nathan Gill as unjust and criticise those
:18:14. > :18:21.who voted for you and you for putting your name forward,
:18:22. > :18:28.demonstrating ingratitude. Nigel has said many disobliging things about
:18:29. > :18:34.me. Do you have respect for Nigel Farage as the leader of Ukip? Let us
:18:35. > :18:40.give him his due. We would not be having a referendum on the EU if it
:18:41. > :18:46.was not for him and the driving force that he provided to make out
:18:47. > :18:49.of nothing a fully fledged political party which in Wales holds the
:18:50. > :18:56.balance of power in this building. Ukip is Ed Balls to be reckoned with
:18:57. > :19:00.in the country as a whole. Yes, I take my hat off to Nigel Farage in
:19:01. > :19:05.that respect. I have had many disagreements and run-ins with him,
:19:06. > :19:10.but so did I with John Major when I was a minister in his government,
:19:11. > :19:14.and I was a member of the Thatcher government and people have issues
:19:15. > :19:27.with her. But we were part of a winning machine under the Tories. So
:19:28. > :19:35.no and other split? That is the force antithesis. So you are both on
:19:36. > :19:42.the same page? You described shaking each other warmly. I do have a sense
:19:43. > :19:46.of humour that not everyone appreciates. It was in response to a
:19:47. > :19:55.provocative question from a journalist. Mr Farage tried to stop
:19:56. > :20:06.your nomination. Yes, he did. And Nathan Gill has been usurped by you?
:20:07. > :20:11.He has not. It would be a natural conclusion that the man who led his
:20:12. > :20:20.party to victory would be the leader. He has been the 1 in the
:20:21. > :20:27.debate, not you Mr Hamilton. Bless it are those who expect nothing, as
:20:28. > :20:33.the saying goes. Will you be an asset to the party? We will see in
:20:34. > :20:40.due course. I think I will be. I have been a government whip, I know
:20:41. > :20:44.the way in which deals are done in a parliament where there is no overall
:20:45. > :20:52.control. There will be a lot of negotiation. But you are tainted by
:20:53. > :20:57.cash for questions. This is 20, 30 years old. It is ancient history.
:20:58. > :21:03.Serious allegations which you put before a libel jury and they found
:21:04. > :21:11.against you. We have just fought an election. I was voted as the leader
:21:12. > :21:16.candidate. I was then elected by the electorate in mid- wells to be the
:21:17. > :21:18.Assembly member. I have now been elected by the majority of
:21:19. > :21:26.colleagues in this place to be their leader. You said your previous
:21:27. > :21:34.Parliamentary experience... Can I just finish this point. I went
:21:35. > :21:38.through a 2-year top Inland Revenue investigation of my financial
:21:39. > :21:46.affairs over 10 separate tax years as a result of the patch your
:21:47. > :21:54.questions. The Inland Revenue's top forensic accountants were involved.
:21:55. > :21:58.I emerged from that with the Inland Revenue concluding there had not
:21:59. > :22:03.been illicit payments to me in any shape or form. Those allegations are
:22:04. > :22:08.baseless. They are now ancient history. They were discussed in
:22:09. > :22:14.court and the jury found against you. You ended up bankrupt. You
:22:15. > :22:18.refer to your previous experience is putting you in good stead for this
:22:19. > :22:27.role and your previous experience led to your disgrace. Well, I have
:22:28. > :22:36.been retraced by this election. You have been all fighting like cats in
:22:37. > :22:41.the sack through this campaign. You said we would make life interesting.
:22:42. > :22:45.You certainly did, and that is the basis of this question. Will it
:22:46. > :22:55.continue to be interesting, or will you bring coherence? It's not about
:22:56. > :23:00.that, there is a natural cohesion. We are a form bands, which is the
:23:01. > :23:05.nature of the institution and we will get on together very well. We
:23:06. > :23:12.will have disagreements from time to time and when you are fighting
:23:13. > :23:16.against others for a position, that tends to leave a few scratches and
:23:17. > :23:21.scars. But I have been through this many times in the last 30 years in
:23:22. > :23:25.Parliament and in politics generally and I can assure you there is much,
:23:26. > :23:34.much more that unites us than divides us. After June 23, what is
:23:35. > :23:37.Ukip for? If we as a nation vote to leave the unit, there will 1st of
:23:38. > :23:44.all B overriding need to keep the government honest on delivering what
:23:45. > :23:51.the people want. But you would have achieved jaw goal. The British
:23:52. > :23:59.people would have agreed with you. Your fox would be shot. No, the fact
:24:00. > :24:03.we vote to leave does not mean the government will deliver on the deal.
:24:04. > :24:10.There has been many referenda held in Europe where people thought that
:24:11. > :24:13.the Brussels bureaucrats came to the wrong answer and those people were
:24:14. > :24:19.obliged to vote again and produce the right answer. There will be a
:24:20. > :24:24.cosmetic deal that the political elite will pull together to convince
:24:25. > :24:29.people that all the things that were wrong have been made right and it
:24:30. > :24:34.will be a lie. If there is a Remain votes, your primary reason for
:24:35. > :24:40.existence for have been rejected. No. We won't ignore the referendum
:24:41. > :24:45.result, but we said we will carry on the fight, in the same way that the
:24:46. > :24:50.Scottish National Party are doing in Scotland. Will all continue to be
:24:51. > :24:54.about Europe? You have no intention of bringing a policy platform in
:24:55. > :25:00.Wales and establish Ukip as an integral part of the evolution? It
:25:01. > :25:06.will all be about Europe? You may not have had the chance to read the
:25:07. > :25:13.manifesto we stood on June the election. I will give 1 to you after
:25:14. > :25:19.this interview. You did not mention apprenticeships... The whole 20
:25:20. > :25:25.default areas of policy, we put forward a full range of policies
:25:26. > :25:28.which were different from the other parties and... So what is the 1
:25:29. > :25:32.thing you would like to achieve from your manifesto in the cause of this
:25:33. > :25:38.new Assembly. How should we judge you in terms of your performance
:25:39. > :25:43.here as you can leader in the next 5 years? What will be the thing? There
:25:44. > :25:47.is not 1 individual thing, there are lots of things. I would like to
:25:48. > :25:53.introduce democracy in a way that the whole service is run. It is
:25:54. > :25:57.failing in many ways and it is wrong. The way we treat cancer
:25:58. > :26:03.patients is appalling in comparison to England. We would like to
:26:04. > :26:08.introduce democracy by having elected representatives on health
:26:09. > :26:14.boards. We would like to scrap the tolls on the Severn Bridge. Can you
:26:15. > :26:20.commit to 1 of those and said this will be the thing. This is the Tete
:26:21. > :26:24.mik issue other than Europe, as Ukip in the Welsh Assembly. I don't know
:26:25. > :26:29.what we can achieve in 5 years because we are only 7 out of 60
:26:30. > :26:35.members. We will do their best we can. Not the balance of power then?
:26:36. > :26:40.Certainly be well. You can't have it both ways. Maybe you will be
:26:41. > :26:46.influential and tell us what you will achieve, or you won't. No.
:26:47. > :26:50.Because we do have the scope to hold the balance of power, we will be
:26:51. > :26:54.able to trade our votes for some of the things which are in our
:26:55. > :26:59.manifesto. I can't tell you what they are because I don't know what
:27:00. > :27:02.will be possible in individual circumstances. I have lived through
:27:03. > :27:11.a period when a government did not have a majority and individual
:27:12. > :27:15.members of Parliament help the government to ransom. -- held the
:27:16. > :27:21.government to ransom. I can assure you I will drive a hard bargain in
:27:22. > :27:28.the interest of the people of Wales. Mr Hamilton, thank you very much.
:27:29. > :27:42.Well, what a couple of days it has been. I am now joined by elliptical
:27:43. > :27:51.commentators. -- political commentators. Laura, what you think
:27:52. > :27:57.of this? In some respects, it paves the way for what will be an
:27:58. > :28:00.incredibly different Assembly. Whatever the outcome is over the
:28:01. > :28:09.issue of the First Minister, we knew that this will
:28:10. > :28:16.Do you get a sense that perhaps the labour group has not be adjusted to
:28:17. > :28:20.that new environment? I am not sure about that. I got a
:28:21. > :28:23.sense today that before we got to the vote as to who should be First
:28:24. > :28:30.Minister, the fact that the Labour Party give three votes to that
:28:31. > :28:32.extent on the Presiding Officer candidate was radically different to
:28:33. > :28:40.what I have seen happening in the past. I whipped -- I would have gone
:28:41. > :28:43.with 2003. I thought that the Labour Party would have looked at it in a
:28:44. > :28:48.more open-minded way. I understand that they tried to talk to a certain
:28:49. > :28:52.extent to the Lib Dems and to Plaid Cymru and trying to make some sort
:28:53. > :28:58.of arrangement to indicate there was a difference of tone. Unfortunately,
:28:59. > :29:02.that cheap date is still casting a shadow.
:29:03. > :29:02.Really? Do you think that the opposition parties would
:29:03. > :29:06.Really? Do you think that the that today was the day that they
:29:07. > :29:09.would give the bigger party a bloody nose?
:29:10. > :29:10.would give the bigger party a bloody I think that Darren is
:29:11. > :29:14.would give the bigger party a bloody that it says more about Plaid
:29:15. > :29:14.would give the bigger party a bloody than it says about the Labour Party.
:29:15. > :29:17.This is a different Plaid Cymru than it says about the Labour Party.
:29:18. > :29:22.group, one that this appears party, in this case Labour. I think
:29:23. > :29:37.also, there party, in this case Labour. I think
:29:38. > :29:42.Aside from the Rhondda, it was poor for Plaid Cymru. So they need to do
:29:43. > :29:44.something to project Leanne Wood and the party back onto the agenda. This
:29:45. > :29:48.is a really bold the party back onto the agenda. This
:29:49. > :29:51.well misfire, but they had to do something.
:29:52. > :29:53.well misfire, but they had to do That is now the question. If they
:29:54. > :29:57.have engineered this, how do they then climbed down from it, as that
:29:58. > :30:02.they want to, of course, but it has to be resolved somehow?
:30:03. > :30:06.There must be a resolution and if not, the assembly will be dissolved
:30:07. > :30:10.on the 5th of June. There must be some resolution between now and
:30:11. > :30:14.then. I think that maybe if we had had another session immediately
:30:15. > :30:17.afterwards, Plaid Cymru could've said, we have made our point, you
:30:18. > :30:21.can't govern as she used to, we will said, we have made our point, you
:30:22. > :30:26.step away from it. The problem now is that there looks to be another
:30:27. > :30:30.week for B have a cleaner recession. That will
:30:31. > :30:31.week for B have a cleaner recession. negotiations. The Labour Party is
:30:32. > :30:37.playing that negotiations. The Labour Party is
:30:38. > :30:41.aspect that will have the biggest aspect on
:30:42. > :30:43.aspect that will have the biggest Europe. Because actually, that date
:30:44. > :30:46.is getting Europe. Because actually, that date
:30:47. > :30:50.losing another week of campaigning and are
:30:51. > :30:55.losing another week of campaigning had a massive falling
:30:56. > :30:55.could perpetuate for PBX or four weeks, really
:30:56. > :31:03.could perpetuate for PBX or four for another
:31:04. > :31:05.could perpetuate for PBX or four there will say there is requirements
:31:06. > :31:09.and standing orders for this but I am not sure why. If Plaid Cymru's
:31:10. > :31:12.tactics were to really flex am not sure why. If Plaid Cymru's
:31:13. > :31:15.muscles, as it did very effectively, then it would have anticipated the
:31:16. > :31:17.meeting would be adjourned then it would have anticipated the
:31:18. > :31:20.short meeting of time then it would have anticipated the
:31:21. > :31:26.reconvened. No one is clear why we are waiting such a long time, it is
:31:27. > :31:29.to know when's benefit. No one can work out why it took half
:31:30. > :31:33.an hour to count 60 votes, it seems to take a long time, everything, and
:31:34. > :31:36.this please! What are your thoughts as the others
:31:37. > :31:39.will likely be resolved and the timetable for doing so? I do not
:31:40. > :31:43.think I have the stamina for another election?
:31:44. > :31:47.I do not think we are taught me about another election. You are
:31:48. > :31:51.correct, that we do not have a First Minister within 28 days of the
:31:52. > :31:55.election, there will be another election, but nobody has an appetite
:31:56. > :31:58.for that, including all of the political parties, never mind the
:31:59. > :32:02.public. I think it will be resolved but the proof of the pudding, Billy,
:32:03. > :32:06.and how it is resolved and how Plaid Cymru come out of this any stronger
:32:07. > :32:09.position than they went into it today, and how we will respond in
:32:10. > :32:13.terms of its culture of operations subsequently.
:32:14. > :32:18.The problem is that the Conservatives and Ukip seemingly are
:32:19. > :32:22.just going to back Leanne Wood for the hell of it. It might act to be
:32:23. > :32:26.Plaid Cymru that has to shift, it is probably easier for them in some
:32:27. > :32:31.ways but it is not an easy step. Plaid Cymru have got a fair bit out
:32:32. > :32:35.of today but it is an extremely high risk strategy and one we will be
:32:36. > :32:39.giving a vote on the Labour Party leaflet and lecture placards for a
:32:40. > :32:43.long time to come. Darren Anderton Laura, thank you
:32:44. > :32:46.very much indeed. This story will go on and on and there is the small
:32:47. > :32:52.matter of an EU referendum campaign to talk about. We will address those
:32:53. > :32:58.in next week's programme. -- Darren. If you would like to give us your
:32:59. > :33:06.opinions, please do, the hashtag is on screen now. Good night.