:00:00. > :00:00.Testing times ahead for Welsh schools and
:00:00. > :00:10.We speak to the Education Secretary, Kirsty Williams.
:00:11. > :00:13.what role for Wales in trying to settle the UK's
:00:14. > :00:19.And the harsh reality of prostitution in towns and
:00:20. > :00:31.would decriminalisation make sex work safer?
:00:32. > :00:35.People judge us. They say because we are street workers, we are this or
:00:36. > :00:39.that. We're not all the same. Good evening, and welcome
:00:40. > :00:49.to the Wales Report. Does education in Wales
:00:50. > :00:54.pass the test? How could our schools
:00:55. > :00:58.and universities do better? You can join our discussion
:00:59. > :01:00.tonight on social media Well, the woman in charge,
:01:01. > :01:07.the Liberal Democrat Kirsty Williams, takes
:01:08. > :01:09.on the role of Education Secretary at a time of very
:01:10. > :01:12.big decisions ? higher education funding,
:01:13. > :01:15.a new curriculum, and how to improve Wales's performance
:01:16. > :01:17.in the international So, it's a pretty full
:01:18. > :01:26.in-tray for the Education Secretary, and we'll hear
:01:27. > :01:28.from Kirsty Williams in just But first, let's take
:01:29. > :01:40.a look at some of the The only Lib Dem in Government,
:01:41. > :01:47.Kirsty Williams faces vital decisions about the future of our
:01:48. > :01:53.schools, colleges and universities. First up, higher education. Last
:01:54. > :01:56.month, Professor Ian Diamond delivered his recommendations for
:01:57. > :02:00.how universities in Wales should be funded, and the sector seems to
:02:01. > :02:07.think it is just what is needed. It has been long in gestation, the
:02:08. > :02:12.report. I think it is positive for students, applicants, who will be
:02:13. > :02:16.the students of the future, and for their families as well, and for
:02:17. > :02:23.Wales, because it is important that we have a fair system of support for
:02:24. > :02:27.students who come from Wales, and it's important that universities in
:02:28. > :02:36.Wales are well funded, to the degree that allows them to play their part
:02:37. > :02:43.in the future of this country. Next, schools and the new PISA rankings in
:02:44. > :02:49.December. Wales's results started badly and have been getting worse.
:02:50. > :02:53.Is improvement expected this time? I don't think they will be better,
:02:54. > :02:57.they may be worse. If they are the same or worse, we have the radically
:02:58. > :03:01.think about what it is that we have done in these last ten years. There
:03:02. > :03:04.is no point in going on as we have in the last ten years if the
:03:05. > :03:08.headline indicator we are all committed to shows you are going
:03:09. > :03:12.nowhere. Yet another set of disappointing PISA results will be
:03:13. > :03:15.sober reading for the first Minister. For more than a decade,
:03:16. > :03:20.the Wales Government has tried to improve Wales's performance, with
:03:21. > :03:24.intense pressure on teachers and schools. Local education authorities
:03:25. > :03:28.have been placed into special measures, and regional education
:03:29. > :03:31.consortia have been created to drive up standards. But some think the
:03:32. > :03:35.problem for the education Secretary is far closer to home. The great
:03:36. > :03:41.thing we have never tackled, as far as I can see, is to reform the
:03:42. > :03:45.Department of Education itself. The OECD, who run PISA, were damning in
:03:46. > :03:50.a report they published in 2014, saying the national Government, the
:03:51. > :03:54.Wells Government, hadn't provided a coherent narrative for education in
:03:55. > :03:59.Wales. We are feeling our way towards that. It would be something,
:04:00. > :04:03.if Kirsty Williams wanted to leave office having achieved something,
:04:04. > :04:06.would be to say, we have a clear, coherent vision for education. We
:04:07. > :04:11.still do not and we are feeling our way towards it. We badly needed, but
:04:12. > :04:17.if we don't get it, we won't improve in PISA and our students will lag
:04:18. > :04:22.behind compared to other students in the United Kingdom. And there is a
:04:23. > :04:26.warning to the Cabinet Secretary to reach out and listen. I think Kirsty
:04:27. > :04:31.Williams has to tread carefully, because she can end up carrying the
:04:32. > :04:36.can for 17 years of Labour rule. She has been -- she has to be very
:04:37. > :04:42.careful about where she takes advice from. If she takes it from her own
:04:43. > :04:48.department, she is only receiving the same as in -- the same advice as
:04:49. > :04:51.her predecessors. She needs to make sure she is getting advice and
:04:52. > :04:55.expert opinion from outsiders who will tell her things civil servants
:04:56. > :04:58.won't want to hear. For an outsider brought into one of the most
:04:59. > :05:02.high-profile jobs in Wells Government, the stakes could not be
:05:03. > :05:07.higher. A radical new curriculum will be brought in from 2018.
:05:08. > :05:11.Teachers will have to be prepared. Some are warning that the coming
:05:12. > :05:16.years are make or break for education in Wales. I think there
:05:17. > :05:23.are challenges, obviously, but it is a huge opportunity. I think if she
:05:24. > :05:28.can connect with the Welsh teaching profession in may be ways that some
:05:29. > :05:33.of her predecessors didn't, and if she can set the right emotional
:05:34. > :05:36.tone, and if she can actually get teachers and the Welsh nation to
:05:37. > :05:44.think that we need some kind of crusade here. To the Welsh and
:05:45. > :05:49.well-educated as part of our history but not the case now. If she can put
:05:50. > :05:54.together a crusade and put together a coalition of teachers and parents,
:05:55. > :06:03.then it would be an incredible contribution to our future. Without
:06:04. > :06:08.it, one fears for our future. Earlier, I spoke to the education
:06:09. > :06:12.secretary, Kirsty Williams, in the Senedd. Huge challenges ahead for
:06:13. > :06:16.you - how will you be different from your predecessors? It is a big
:06:17. > :06:23.challenge, but it is an exciting one. I am ambitious for Welsh
:06:24. > :06:26.education, for our children and for our teaching profession. I think we
:06:27. > :06:30.are embarking on a new national mission that recognises that working
:06:31. > :06:39.with the profession, with parents, we can make Welsh education
:06:40. > :06:44.stronger, high attaining education system. For many years, we have
:06:45. > :06:47.looked around the world for examples of good practice, and we will
:06:48. > :06:50.continue that, to challenge ourselves against the best. But I
:06:51. > :07:01.want us to be the nation that people look to to see what we have done.
:07:02. > :07:04.Maybe you are referring to Wales or the Welsh Government. It is
:07:05. > :07:10.intriguing how this works. You're the only Lib Dem in the village,
:07:11. > :07:14.when it comes to the table. Are you trying to implement Lib Dem
:07:15. > :07:18.education policy and a very different vision to what we've had
:07:19. > :07:23.for 16 years? You yourself have been so negative about what we have had
:07:24. > :07:28.for the past 16 years. When I say we, I mean Welsh Government, but I
:07:29. > :07:32.also mean the teaching profession. I am clear that we cannot change
:07:33. > :07:36.education from the fifth floor office of the Welsh Government
:07:37. > :07:39.building. We need to create a coalition between Welsh Government,
:07:40. > :07:43.those in local education authorities and regional consortia, who are
:07:44. > :07:47.charged with school improvement, working with head teachers, teachers
:07:48. > :07:51.in the classrooms, and parents. It is only by working together to share
:07:52. > :07:55.that national mission of high standards, getting the basics right
:07:56. > :08:01.in our schools, that we will make a difference. And yes, being the only
:08:02. > :08:07.Liberal Democrat creates a new dynamic. Let's be clear, when I
:08:08. > :08:13.wasn't in the Government, my party prioritised education spending in
:08:14. > :08:19.our budget, and only recently, we have seen the gap between the
:08:20. > :08:24.performance of our poorest children closing. It is a noble aspiration,
:08:25. > :08:28.but I'm trying to get out what is going to change now that we have a
:08:29. > :08:33.Lib Dem in charge of education. We will have a new vision, which the
:08:34. > :08:37.OECD called for, which sets out our strategic ambitions for our
:08:38. > :08:41.education system. We will have a relentless focus on standards,
:08:42. > :08:44.looking at how we improve our initial teacher training so that
:08:45. > :08:48.those coming into the profession have the skills they need. New
:08:49. > :08:55.professional standards for teachers as a whole, ensuring they have the
:08:56. > :09:00.opportunity to constantly improve. What about money, then? Can you
:09:01. > :09:06.guarantee the money? Next week, we will hear about cuts in the budget,
:09:07. > :09:10.and educational have to be cut, it? Next week, we will see a challenging
:09:11. > :09:13.set of financial circumstances that the Welsh Government find themselves
:09:14. > :09:17.in, so we will be ensuring that the money that is available to me as
:09:18. > :09:23.Cabinet Secretary for education is spent on those priorities. So,
:09:24. > :09:27.additional resources I hope we will see for school improvement in the
:09:28. > :09:33.budget, a continued commitment to the pupil depravation grant. But
:09:34. > :09:39.what will you cut? You will have to cut something. We will have to see
:09:40. > :09:43.how the budget is published, but I am clear that we need to use the
:09:44. > :09:51.resources available to do what we need to do, to fulfil that national
:09:52. > :09:55.mission. So, reforming teacher training, additional resources for
:09:56. > :09:58.school improvement. Let's talk about school improvement. You're not
:09:59. > :10:02.expecting good PISA result in December, you have said that. Do you
:10:03. > :10:06.not expect any improvement? The test that were taken last year, we have
:10:07. > :10:10.to accept, have taken place at a time when we are in a process of
:10:11. > :10:15.changing and reforming the system. When the OECD came and wrote a very
:10:16. > :10:19.challenging report, damning in many ways about the state of Welsh
:10:20. > :10:25.education, they said it would take a number of years for reforms to bed
:10:26. > :10:27.in. What I want to do, because the PISA results in the past have not
:10:28. > :10:31.been good enough, but I am not sitting back just waiting for this
:10:32. > :10:38.next set of PISA results to be published. I have invited the OECD
:10:39. > :10:41.'s comeback to Wales, to examine the programmes we are implementing and
:10:42. > :10:45.the policies I want to take forward, to make sure we have that rigour and
:10:46. > :10:49.challenge from not just within the civil service but outside, that they
:10:50. > :10:52.are the bright programmes we need. Anyone who knows anything about
:10:53. > :10:58.education will tell you, the reforms we are undertaking will take some
:10:59. > :11:04.time to bed in. Which is what your predecessors used to say. When the
:11:05. > :11:10.last set came out in 2013, you deleted I am really sad and angry
:11:11. > :11:15.that 14 years of Labour policy has led us to these PISA results.
:11:16. > :11:21.Because they are not good enough. Let's look to 2019. You will have to
:11:22. > :11:26.deliver better results. Will you make PISA a priority for teachers as
:11:27. > :11:30.well? That has been a problem, that perhaps teachers aren't focusing on
:11:31. > :11:34.PISA the way that Government is. They are getting on with GCSE? And
:11:35. > :11:38.some might even see PISA as a distraction. Will you tell them they
:11:39. > :11:43.have to take PISA more seriously? We have been clear that PISA is an
:11:44. > :11:46.important way in which we can benchmark ourselves against the rest
:11:47. > :11:51.of the world, and I want to see us make improvements in our PISA
:11:52. > :11:54.performance. I don't now say that our PISA performance has been good
:11:55. > :11:58.because I am the Cabinet Secretary. I have the opportunity to make the
:11:59. > :12:03.changes to make sure we don't find ourselves in that position in the
:12:04. > :12:06.years to come, and I am focused on that, improving standards, creating
:12:07. > :12:11.a curriculum that actually gives our young people the skills that they
:12:12. > :12:14.need to do well in PISA as well as a whole raft of other reforms which
:12:15. > :12:20.were embarked upon. We have to be clear, we cannot afford, as a
:12:21. > :12:25.Government, when we're changing education, to be changing every time
:12:26. > :12:29.there is a bump in the road, dashing off in a different direction. Do you
:12:30. > :12:34.think there has been too much change? Over the years, we have had
:12:35. > :12:38.changes that have not been the right ones, not based on evidence about
:12:39. > :12:42.what works. I think we have embarked now on a radical programme of
:12:43. > :12:47.change. What the OECD said is that we do need that vision. I will be
:12:48. > :12:50.making further announcements this autumn term about that strategic
:12:51. > :12:56.vision, and then we need to stick to it. I am bringing the OECD back in.
:12:57. > :13:01.Let's have a quick look at the Diamond review. You are minded to
:13:02. > :13:06.accept all its recommendations and plough through with that, in what
:13:07. > :13:10.kind of timescale? I am clear that I accept the principles outlined in
:13:11. > :13:15.the Diamond review. It says clearly that we need to focus on the problem
:13:16. > :13:20.is that really affect students will stop all the recommendations? We
:13:21. > :13:24.have accepted the principles behind the recommendations, especially the
:13:25. > :13:29.principle that it is upfront living costs that are the real barrier for
:13:30. > :13:32.young people going on to study in higher education, something I have
:13:33. > :13:37.said before the election and for many years. I am glad that Diamond
:13:38. > :13:41.has agreed with that. So, we will have to now look at how we can move
:13:42. > :13:46.from the principles in the report to a system that students can access.
:13:47. > :13:50.Timescale, roughly? We have seen a go at -- we had to have negotiations
:13:51. > :13:54.with the Treasury and the student loans Company. I hope to have a
:13:55. > :14:00.detailed consultation and a detailed response this autumn. I want
:14:01. > :14:08.something that can be fermented by 2018. Argue enjoying Government? --
:14:09. > :14:13.that can be implemented by 2018. Argue enjoying Government? It is
:14:14. > :14:19.good to make decisions and affect -- effect change. We will be reforming
:14:20. > :14:20.the curriculum, it is a wonderful opportunity. Kirsty Williams, thank
:14:21. > :14:25.you. grapple with how the UK
:14:26. > :14:29.will leave the European Union, what does it all mean
:14:30. > :14:31.for Wales? And how much of a say, if any,
:14:32. > :14:34.will Wales have in the The Prime Mininster Theresa May
:14:35. > :14:37.says she'll listen to the devolved administrations
:14:38. > :14:39.but is adamant that the UK Government will
:14:40. > :14:41.do the negotiating. So, what does the leader
:14:42. > :14:44.of her party in Wales make of that? Before we hear from
:14:45. > :14:47.Andrew RT Davies, let's remind ourselves of what
:14:48. > :14:49.the First Minister, Carwyn Jones, told this
:14:50. > :15:06.programme last week. What I have said is we expect to be
:15:07. > :15:10.part of not what is happening but to be able to feed in what the UK's
:15:11. > :15:14.position is. The difficulty we have is the UK Government has no real
:15:15. > :15:23.idea of where it goes next. My greatest fear is that they will
:15:24. > :15:24.focus on the City of London at the expense of other areas of the
:15:25. > :15:27.economy. The First Minister, Carwyn Jones,
:15:28. > :15:29.and his red line. The leader of the Welsh
:15:30. > :15:31.Conservatives, Andrew RT Davies, was prominent in the Leave campaign
:15:32. > :15:43.in Wales and he joins me now. More than three months now after the
:15:44. > :15:47.referendum. What will Brexit mean for Wales? In means a strong UK
:15:48. > :15:52.Government negotiating an UK's- making sure we get the best deal
:15:53. > :16:06.possible. That is problematic because of
:16:07. > :16:10.many of those continental partners up for election next year. There is
:16:11. > :16:12.no clear direction coming out of the European Union as the they want. But
:16:13. > :16:18.what we want is a trade access deal that gives us access to the European
:16:19. > :16:21.market. So you want to remain in the single European market. You want
:16:22. > :16:24.soft Brexit? We want access to the European market. How that will look
:16:25. > :16:28.will come out in negotiations. What we found out as the article 50 will
:16:29. > :16:35.be invoked in the early part of next year and then there is a two-year
:16:36. > :16:38.window for those negotiations to take place. But it would be wrong to
:16:39. > :16:44.go into those negotiations, saying you cannot do this or that. But you
:16:45. > :16:50.will first in the books in terms of leaving. Do you want the UK to be
:16:51. > :16:54.part of the single market? I want them to make the decisions in the
:16:55. > :17:05.parliaments and assemblies of the UK. This is an important
:17:06. > :17:07.consideration. What we need to do now in the negotiations is securing
:17:08. > :17:14.the best impossible for British exporters, both to the European and
:17:15. > :17:25.global market. We know the issues and we
:17:26. > :17:29.know as a party, you seem divided. Those want hard Brexit, which is the
:17:30. > :17:32.one to be like America, Bondo sorts of terms, and those who want soft
:17:33. > :17:34.Brexit, they want to remain in the single European market, and if that
:17:35. > :17:40.means the freedom of movement of people, so be it. I disagree that we
:17:41. > :17:44.are a divided party. There are many views within your party. There are
:17:45. > :17:49.many views within all political parties. Everyone is united about
:17:50. > :17:59.getting a deal that allows Britain to continue to trade with Europe,
:18:00. > :18:02.and that will have some restrictions on the movement of people, so that
:18:03. > :18:05.will have consequences. The First Minister admits that. What about
:18:06. > :18:12.you? I have said all along there will have to be restrictions on the
:18:13. > :18:15.free movement of people. I believe immigrants make an improvement and
:18:16. > :18:19.benefit the English and Welsh society but I respect the view that
:18:20. > :18:26.immigration was a real issue the electorate want politicians to
:18:27. > :18:34.respond to. The First Minister suggested freedom of movement of
:18:35. > :18:37.workers, how would that work? The issue for the First Minister is, he
:18:38. > :18:40.had a protocol which he came up with. He has moved from that now the
:18:41. > :18:44.goods and services rather than people. He then wanted article 50
:18:45. > :18:49.invoked as soon as possible. Let us talk about you in your position.
:18:50. > :18:52.From the Welsh government point of view, it is very difficult to
:18:53. > :18:57.understand what they want going into these negotiations. But I have said
:18:58. > :19:05.we have to respect the electorate, there will have to be certain
:19:06. > :19:08.conditions on the movement of people in an out of the United Kingdom, but
:19:09. > :19:13.we must make sure that does not harm the UK economy. What does Theresa
:19:14. > :19:23.May want? She wants a deal but respect the views. They want the UK
:19:24. > :19:26.to renegotiate their place in the world. Our place in the world is the
:19:27. > :19:33.a competitive dynamic economy trading globally. She keeps telling
:19:34. > :19:37.us she wants to give us a running commentary. Did she give you one? I
:19:38. > :19:41.have an excellent relationship with her and her team as I do with the
:19:42. > :19:44.Secretary of State and that is heartening but it is right the Prime
:19:45. > :19:49.Minister does not give a running commentary. I am just wondering how
:19:50. > :19:56.involved you are personally at the top table of these Brexit talks. I
:19:57. > :19:59.am involved working with the Secretary of State in the Prime
:20:00. > :20:02.Minister's team but I know she is reaching out to be devolved
:20:03. > :20:09.administrations as well. But these negotiations would be over a period
:20:10. > :20:12.of time and the UK Government is taking the right approach by mapping
:20:13. > :20:16.at how they would go about those negotiations. Like the First
:20:17. > :20:21.Minister did in the early days after the referendum. We will have to wait
:20:22. > :20:33.and see on the single market. In terms of the money, we remember that
:20:34. > :20:35.big bus. Do you expect or that the comeback? We spend ?18 billion by
:20:36. > :20:40.being members of the European Union. That money is available to a UK
:20:41. > :20:47.Government to spend as it sees fit. There is talk now of perhaps the UK
:20:48. > :20:56.paying something in, not to the EU perhaps but to a fund, just to keep
:20:57. > :20:58.access to the single market. You would rule that out? That money is
:20:59. > :21:04.British money. It is up to the British government how it wants to
:21:05. > :21:11.spend it. If it believes it spends money to be a member of the club,
:21:12. > :21:18.that might be a consideration. We live in a democracy. The government
:21:19. > :21:21.is elected by the people and if it decides it wants to spend the money
:21:22. > :21:26.that way, it can. If it was the spend all that money on the NHS, it
:21:27. > :21:29.can. If it wants to parcel that money up, it can do that. That is
:21:30. > :21:33.what democracy is about. You really want to do this. Are you living the
:21:34. > :21:46.dream? It is not about living the dream but what is in the best
:21:47. > :21:48.interest of the people of Wales in the UK. Unequivocally, the best
:21:49. > :21:50.interests of this country is served by being a strong independent
:21:51. > :21:53.country standing on its own two feet. Rather than part of a club
:21:54. > :21:54.that is in decline in economic, socially and culturally.
:21:55. > :21:55.Should prostitution be decriminalised?
:21:56. > :21:58.Well, members of the Home Affairs Select Committee at Westminster
:21:59. > :22:02.think the laws in England and Wales need radical change.
:22:03. > :22:05.They believe that soliciting sex should no longer be
:22:06. > :22:10.They've looked at laws in various parts of Europe.
:22:11. > :22:12.Northern Ireland and France, for example, have adopted
:22:13. > :22:15.the so-called Nordic model where the person paying for sex
:22:16. > :22:40.This is the story of one women, told by an actor to protect her identity.
:22:41. > :22:48.It is very scary becoming a street worker. You do not know who you will
:22:49. > :22:56.meet from day-to-day. Some nights, I finish as late as 5am. My friend got
:22:57. > :22:59.me into it. She worked at a parlour. I was there with her when she said,
:23:00. > :23:04.do you want to come to work? And I ended up with the job. She did not
:23:05. > :23:15.want me sitting around the flat! The parlour was more working men, office
:23:16. > :23:18.men. But I lost my job because I had an argument with one of the girls.
:23:19. > :23:39.She thought she could run me down site for her in her place. I met up
:23:40. > :23:42.with Daniel. He introduced me to life on the beat. He was a big drug
:23:43. > :23:45.user. I have to help him with his habit. If I do not get money quick
:23:46. > :23:51.enough, he would not be happy, he would become ill because he needs
:23:52. > :23:55.his fix. One day, I said, I do not want to go out any more, so he
:23:56. > :23:58.kicked me in the face and said, you know I need to get money. It cost
:23:59. > :24:07.?420 a week, ?60 a night, his heroin addiction. That is a deposit on a
:24:08. > :24:14.flat. I was almost raped the other night. Upon the wanted business. The
:24:15. > :24:23.only paid for half and I decided, that's enough. He was insistent. I
:24:24. > :24:29.was not going home. He tried to take sex of me. Luckily enough, I got
:24:30. > :24:34.away from him. There was another guy. I was thrown out of a moving
:24:35. > :24:40.car on a cold winter's night, freezing cold, left in the woods. If
:24:41. > :24:51.it was not deliver a lady, I do know how I would've got home. People
:24:52. > :25:02.throw things out of cars, shouting, how much? Then they just drive off.
:25:03. > :25:05.I hope one day those girls are never in the situation. You do not know
:25:06. > :25:07.the situation behind things, so keep your mouth shut. People judge us.
:25:08. > :25:13.They think because we are street workers, we have this or that. But
:25:14. > :25:15.we are not all the same. We are all different. We have all got different
:25:16. > :25:23.story to tell. I'm joined now by Bernie Bowen
:25:24. > :25:25.Thomson from the organisation Safer Wales, which helps women
:25:26. > :25:29.working on the streets, and Carrie Mitchell, who represents
:25:30. > :25:31.the English Collective of Prostitutes, which
:25:32. > :25:46.also covers Wales. Bernie, as we saw from that film,
:25:47. > :25:52.there is no such thing as a typical sex worker, and you come across an
:25:53. > :25:58.awful lot in Wales, we are talking 2500 working in that industry in
:25:59. > :26:07.Wales. The most recent research shows that. I can speak about the
:26:08. > :26:12.women we work with through our street live service. We work with
:26:13. > :26:22.hundreds of women, the majority of whom are working on the streets. How
:26:23. > :26:30.did they fall into prostitution? Is there some common factor? It does
:26:31. > :26:38.vary. Some research we undertook a few years back now showed that some
:26:39. > :26:47.of the women who we worked with had been sexually exploited his
:26:48. > :26:50.children. The had faced significant levels of trauma and exploitation
:26:51. > :26:57.and that carried on into adult hood. Carry, there is a report which says
:26:58. > :27:04.it should be decriminalised. Is that the answer here? It is one of the
:27:05. > :27:09.answers. The Home Affairs Select Committee, a very prestigious
:27:10. > :27:16.Parliamentary committee, has come out with a very important report,
:27:17. > :27:25.part of which recommends that soliciting no longer be an offence.
:27:26. > :27:28.Most women who work on the streets have a record and that makes it
:27:29. > :27:37.almost impossible to get another job because once you present to an
:27:38. > :27:39.employer and they find you have a record under sexual offences, it is
:27:40. > :27:46.almost impossible then to leave, so you are stuck on the street. Bernie,
:27:47. > :27:51.how would criminalising the customer and decriminalising the person
:27:52. > :28:01.selling the sex worker, how would that make their life safer? We do
:28:02. > :28:06.not want to see women who are sex working, we did not want to see them
:28:07. > :28:13.criminalised. What is important is we look across how we can support
:28:14. > :28:15.women across a whole number of areas, mental health, substance
:28:16. > :28:28.issues housing. The women we work with and
:28:29. > :28:31.support have significant problems, huge difficulties and complex needs.
:28:32. > :28:33.It is not as simple as looking at it through a lens through criminal
:28:34. > :28:37.justice. We need to improve the lives of these women and help them
:28:38. > :28:43.make real choices and address some of the traumas they have
:28:44. > :28:51.experienced. It is the oldest profession you could argue, it will
:28:52. > :28:55.always be around. Is the idea of criminalising going to drive it
:28:56. > :29:04.further underground? Criminalising clients come in Sweden where they
:29:05. > :29:06.have done that, particularly on the street, it has made it more
:29:07. > :29:16.dangerous because clients are nervous, women have no time to check
:29:17. > :29:19.out clients, attacks have gone up, women are saying it is more
:29:20. > :29:21.difficult and dangerous now. On the question of decriminalisation, they
:29:22. > :29:25.have done that in New Zealand. It has made it safer. There has been
:29:26. > :29:30.increased in prostitution, women are able to come forward now and report
:29:31. > :29:32.attacks to the police, said that has made big difference.
:29:33. > :29:37.If you'd like to get in touch with us, you can email us
:29:38. > :29:40.at thewalesreport@bbc.co.uk or follow us on social
:29:41. > :29:45.media - #TheWalesReport. We'll be back next week.
:29:46. > :30:15.I'll never ever forget. It's as vivid as if it was yesterday.