:00:00. > :00:00.Tonight on The Wales Report, I'm in Westminster to discuss
:00:00. > :00:11.the latest Brexit negotiations and what they mean for Wales.
:00:12. > :00:13.And I'm here in the Senedd, where we'll be discussing
:00:14. > :00:22.the implications of the Welsh Government's budget announcement.
:00:23. > :00:29.And in this week of the 50th anniversary of the Aberfan disaster,
:00:30. > :00:31.will be talking to the leading expert about what happened in the
:00:32. > :00:35.enquiry. Good evening and welcome
:00:36. > :00:40.The Wales Report. where Brexit remains
:00:41. > :00:43.at the top of the agenda. And we'll bring you the latest
:00:44. > :00:59.fall-out from the Welsh Government's We will be discussing Aberfan later
:01:00. > :01:06.in the programme. Remember you can join
:01:07. > :01:07.in the discussion online. The debate around Britain's exit
:01:08. > :01:11.from the EU, in all its complexity, looks like it won't be coming
:01:12. > :01:28.to an end anytime soon. We thought it might be useful to ask
:01:29. > :01:29.three people facing very different challenges what they were hoping
:01:30. > :01:30.for. I'm Wayne Priest, Chief Executive
:01:31. > :01:33.of Hydro Industries, a Welsh-based water technology company
:01:34. > :01:36.operating globally. What we want out of Brexit
:01:37. > :01:40.is we see this as a great opportunity to initiate
:01:41. > :01:43.and implement world trade deals in markets that are sometimes
:01:44. > :01:45.regarded as high risk. market and we think the money that
:01:46. > :01:50.has been spent currently in Europe could be diverted to a longer term
:01:51. > :01:53.plan to develop these markets which are fast growth, which would help
:01:54. > :02:02.best and help the local economy. I'm Gemma Jones from Cwmbran
:02:03. > :02:05.and I've been working with Bridges Into Work to get
:02:06. > :02:13.the skills for a job that I've now got working as a creche worker,
:02:14. > :02:16.if it wasn't for the guys in Bridges who are funded
:02:17. > :02:19.by the EU I wouldn't have had the chance
:02:20. > :02:22.to do what I've done. I hope these guys keep getting
:02:23. > :02:24.the funding they need, whether it is through the EU
:02:25. > :02:28.or anyone else because they do a I'm Brian Bolland, hill farmer
:02:29. > :02:33.from Tredegar, what I want out of the Brexit deal
:02:34. > :02:38.is ideally a ring fenced agricultural budget so we know
:02:39. > :02:46.where we're going. A lengthy transition period
:02:47. > :02:48.to allow us to adjust, and to have access to the single
:02:49. > :02:51.market so that we have somewhere to sell goods
:02:52. > :03:09.after we've produced it. Some different voices there on the
:03:10. > :03:13.Brexit hopes and aspirations. I'm joined now by the Wales Office
:03:14. > :03:19.minister, the Conservative MP, Guto Bebb. Where is the Wales voice to be
:03:20. > :03:23.heard in these negotiations? The Wales Office is fully involved in
:03:24. > :03:29.Westminster, and the Secretary of State is in Cabinet to make sure
:03:30. > :03:34.that the voice of Wales is heard. Also the Wales government has been
:03:35. > :03:40.significant. We have a devolved institution in Wales, and it is
:03:41. > :03:44.involved in the whole process. It is a wide ranging stakeholder
:03:45. > :03:48.engagement, which has been ongoing since the referendum. If somebody
:03:49. > :03:52.said to you that the main business would take place in that
:03:53. > :03:57.all-important Cabinet committee on the strategy that the UK Government
:03:58. > :04:02.is going to pursue, there is no Welsh voice in that committee, so
:04:03. > :04:07.you cannot pretend that the Welsh voice will be loud and clear. But
:04:08. > :04:11.they report to Cabinet, where the Secretary of State for Wales sits,
:04:12. > :04:16.and the Secretary of State will be involved where appropriate. Who
:04:17. > :04:20.decides when it is appropriate? It will be decided by the needs of
:04:21. > :04:25.Wales and by ensuring the voice of Wales will be heard. Wouldn't it be
:04:26. > :04:30.easier to have a permanent voice on that committee? If everyone had a
:04:31. > :04:35.permanent voice in Westminster at all times, I'm not sure that would
:04:36. > :04:41.be the way forward. That committee reports to Cabinet. And the Wales
:04:42. > :04:45.Office has been in engagement with all the departments in Westminster.
:04:46. > :04:49.It is a process by which the Wales Office have been encouraged by the
:04:50. > :04:54.fact we are relevant in a Welsh context to make sure that the Brexit
:04:55. > :05:00.works for Wales as well as the rest of the UK. You are suggesting all
:05:01. > :05:04.Westminster departments. Surely it will involve a Scottish voice, a
:05:05. > :05:10.Welsh voice and a voice from Northern Ireland? With respect of
:05:11. > :05:15.the devolved institutions, that is imperative. We do have devolved
:05:16. > :05:19.institutions in Britain, who do have to be listened to. I wouldn't want
:05:20. > :05:26.to be in a situation where the voice of Wales or the Welsh government
:05:27. > :05:28.wasn't heard. But foreign affairs have not been devolved, so the
:05:29. > :05:33.ultimate decisions will be taken in Westminster. It is the engagement
:05:34. > :05:39.that is important. Other voices in Wales have to be heard, farming
:05:40. > :05:43.unions, educational establishments and businesses. So the engagement is
:05:44. > :05:48.important, but there is an example here of a government that is
:05:49. > :05:54.listening, and making sure that the voice of Wales is being heard.
:05:55. > :05:58.Carwyn Jones said not so long ago that the ratification process needed
:05:59. > :06:02.to take full account of the Welsh government's view, implying that the
:06:03. > :06:06.Scottish Government or the Welsh government could put the brake on
:06:07. > :06:11.things. Clearly, the Prime Minister disagrees with that. Who is right?
:06:12. > :06:16.The people of Wales never voted for the Welsh government to have a veto
:06:17. > :06:22.on foreign affairs decisions. There is no veto on any forum affairs
:06:23. > :06:27.decision, nor this issue. Yesterday, Carwyn Jones met with the Secretary
:06:28. > :06:34.of State for Brexit and this Secretary of State for Wales. Very
:06:35. > :06:38.positive. They went on to discuss issues facing education in Wales. It
:06:39. > :06:44.is all well and good to say they want to have a veto on the issue,
:06:45. > :06:48.but that isn't very constructed. The needs of Wales are represented by
:06:49. > :06:54.the Welsh government and the Wales Office to make sure they are taken
:06:55. > :06:58.into account when we formulate policy about Brexiting the European
:06:59. > :07:02.Union. Would the needs of Wales be better served staying within the
:07:03. > :07:09.single market, as members, or negotiating some kind of access to
:07:10. > :07:15.it. As someone who campaigned to stay in the EU, what is your view? I
:07:16. > :07:19.had strong views as to the appropriateness of being in the
:07:20. > :07:25.single market. We cannot escape from the fact that the votes and the
:07:26. > :07:30.referendum sent strong messages in relation to immigration, for
:07:31. > :07:35.example. That message is not easy to reconcile with full, tariff free
:07:36. > :07:39.access to the single market. I do think it's imperative we have as
:07:40. > :07:44.good a deal for the UK as possible, but also there is a democratic
:07:45. > :07:48.imperative to ensure we are dealing with the concerns expressed by
:07:49. > :07:53.people in relation to immigration, which are high in some people's
:07:54. > :08:00.minds. The government is working to ensure we have strong access the
:08:01. > :08:04.markets. What does that mean? Strong access, whilst accepting there are
:08:05. > :08:10.issues in terms of freedom of movement, which will be problematic.
:08:11. > :08:15.They are very nebulous terms. What does strong access mean in practical
:08:16. > :08:20.terms? We are looking at ensuring we have as much access to the single
:08:21. > :08:24.market as possible, whilst reflecting the Democratic view of
:08:25. > :08:29.people in relation to immigration. We are guilty of thinking that the
:08:30. > :08:34.only market that matters is the European market. It is clearly very
:08:35. > :08:38.important, that we need to look at opportunities for Wales to export to
:08:39. > :08:42.other parts of the world as well. I am looking for the UK to have a free
:08:43. > :08:47.trading arrangement with Europe and the rest of the world that is as
:08:48. > :08:53.advantageous to business as possible, whilst also reflecting the
:08:54. > :08:57.democratic decision taken by people of Wales and the United Kingdom on
:08:58. > :09:02.the freedom of movement of people. We had some figures from industrial
:09:03. > :09:07.leaders from Germany, including the car industry, which was a very
:09:08. > :09:11.important export market for them, saying that we are not looking for
:09:12. > :09:15.any kind of deal that will look so attractive that other member states
:09:16. > :09:21.will think, hang on, this looks good. The deal will be a tough one.
:09:22. > :09:27.The deal, for you as a Wales Office minister, is one that might cause
:09:28. > :09:31.you concern in terms of the economic impact. I would not be surprised we
:09:32. > :09:36.are hearing tough noises coming from some of the negotiating partners.
:09:37. > :09:46.Two sides are playing poker in this game. That is not surprising, but
:09:47. > :09:51.ultimately, the job of the the UK Government is to secure as good a
:09:52. > :09:56.deal as possible, and freedom for trade is important to that deal.
:09:57. > :10:00.That will be a deal between us and the partner organisation. You must
:10:01. > :10:05.be very tempted to go around parts of Wales and say, I told you so. We
:10:06. > :10:10.have the pound in a very fragile state, inflation moving upwards, all
:10:11. > :10:14.the things that campaigners like you said would happen. What are you
:10:15. > :10:21.saying to people when they say, actually, you might not have been
:10:22. > :10:26.wrong after all. We decided to legislate for a referendum. The
:10:27. > :10:31.referendum delivered a result. My responsibility is to ensure we try
:10:32. > :10:34.to achieve as good a deal as possible for businesses and
:10:35. > :10:41.stakeholders in Wales. If I went round saying I told you so, I'd be
:10:42. > :10:45.doing nobody any favours. I need to be constructive and try to make a
:10:46. > :10:51.difference. When farmers say to me, we need full access to the single
:10:52. > :10:56.market, it is a case of arguing on behalf of farmers whilst respecting
:10:57. > :11:02.the referendum result. The same with other areas like universities. We
:11:03. > :11:07.have indicated a willingness to underwrite European funding up to
:11:08. > :11:13.2020, which is a way of telling people in Wales that they can
:11:14. > :11:17.undertake certain projects. We are trying to underpin stability, rather
:11:18. > :11:19.than deliver a message on what should or shouldn't have happened.
:11:20. > :11:21.Thank you. It's 50 years since 116
:11:22. > :11:24.children and 28 adults This week there are many
:11:25. > :11:30.programmes and events to commemorate the anniversary,
:11:31. > :11:34.and an important question that has been raised in a programme
:11:35. > :11:37.on BBC One last night is the role played by the inquiry,
:11:38. > :11:40.which was held only a few The programme reconstructed parts of
:11:41. > :11:46.the official enquiry. It lasted five months and heard over
:11:47. > :11:49.2.5 million words of evidence. At the start of the inquiry,
:11:50. > :11:51.the National Coal Board repeated their claim
:11:52. > :11:53.that the disaster could not But that wasn't true. There had been
:11:54. > :12:00.plenty of warnings. Finally, after over
:12:01. > :12:02.70 days, Lord Robens, the Coal Board chairman,
:12:03. > :12:04.admitted that the disaster The inquiry had finally
:12:05. > :12:06.achieved some justice for the families, but no one
:12:07. > :12:09.from the National Coal Board named in the inquiry
:12:10. > :12:17.report lost their jobs. The closing statement of the enquiry
:12:18. > :12:21.by the Aberfan families QC conveyed the outrage conveyed by so many --
:12:22. > :12:25.felt by so many. I merely wish this conclusion: Those
:12:26. > :12:28.who died in this disaster lost their lives not
:12:29. > :12:30.because of the occupational hazards which are ever present
:12:31. > :12:32.in these mining valleys - there was no sudden collapse
:12:33. > :12:34.of underground working, no unforeseeable or unforeseen
:12:35. > :12:36.explosion. This was a slow-growing man-made
:12:37. > :12:41.menace, fed by the indifference of those who should never have
:12:42. > :12:46.permitted its existence. There can be no more bitter reminder
:12:47. > :12:54.of the truth and wisdom The worst sin towards our fellows
:12:55. > :13:02.is not to hate them, For that is the essence
:13:03. > :13:32.of inhumanity. The injustice suffered by the people
:13:33. > :13:36.at Aberfan clearly made an impact on people that Westminster today,
:13:37. > :13:38.because it was mentioned by both benches during Prime Minister's
:13:39. > :13:43.Questions. I know the whole house will want to join me in remembering
:13:44. > :13:49.those who lost their lives and were affected by the Aberfan disaster 50
:13:50. > :13:54.years ago this week. It claimed the lives of 144 people, the vast
:13:55. > :14:00.majority children. It caused devastation to the local community.
:14:01. > :14:03.It's right that we pause and reflect on this important anniversary, and
:14:04. > :14:08.recognise the solidarity and resilience of the people of Aberfan
:14:09. > :14:19.to overcome this tragedy. Many in that community are still living with
:14:20. > :14:22.that tragedy, and will until the end of their days. I remember it very
:14:23. > :14:25.well as a young person growing up at that time. Just a sense of today's
:14:26. > :14:30.events in Parliament. I'm joined by Professor Iain McLean, a leading
:14:31. > :14:35.expert on the Aberfan disaster, and on the government's response to it.
:14:36. > :14:39.Thank you for coming in. Given what we now know, and all the work you
:14:40. > :14:44.have done over the years to expose the work on the enquiry, what is the
:14:45. > :14:48.main thing people should take away from this?
:14:49. > :14:53.And think it is this powerful people who know something terrible has
:14:54. > :14:58.happened have immense resources for ensuring the blame goes anywhere but
:14:59. > :15:05.on them and Aberfan was such a clear jungle of that. For us now, the idea
:15:06. > :15:08.that Lord Rubens could survive in post is inconceivable, that his
:15:09. > :15:11.director of production, who some might have seen on last night's
:15:12. > :15:17.reconstruction, should have been promoted to the main coal board
:15:18. > :15:22.after that devastating hearing. That would defy belief if it were to
:15:23. > :15:25.happen now. Why did it happen then? Was it a deferential press and
:15:26. > :15:31.media? People didn't want to change people of authority? What was the
:15:32. > :15:33.condition of circumstances? Combination of more deferential
:15:34. > :15:38.press and media and a Government that was frankly terrified of Lord
:15:39. > :15:42.Rubens. The underlying story is. Why? Because governments of both
:15:43. > :15:46.parties, Lord Rubens was appointed by the previous Conservative
:15:47. > :15:52.Government, knew that they had to slim down the coal industry. They
:15:53. > :15:56.also knew that the National union of Mineworkers was believed to be the
:15:57. > :15:59.most powerful union in the country and Rubens could deal with the
:16:00. > :16:05.miners, the Government thought, nobody else could. When we look at
:16:06. > :16:09.the financial side, but Lord Rubens to one side for a moment, look at
:16:10. > :16:12.the fact that a contribution was required as George, said from the
:16:13. > :16:18.local community and their charitable fund, again, today it seems an
:16:19. > :16:24.outrage, it was an average, how was it allowable at that time? It should
:16:25. > :16:28.not have been allowed, it was unlawful as you sign a documentary
:16:29. > :16:31.that went out last night, the Charity commission was nowhere to be
:16:32. > :16:35.seen, they actually caused the disaster fund some trouble and they
:16:36. > :16:42.were nowhere to be seen when George Thomas demanded an unlawful
:16:43. > :16:46.contribution from the fund. When you look at the way that Labour as an
:16:47. > :16:50.institution in South Wales because let's face it, it was at that time
:16:51. > :16:57.still an incredibly strong Labour five to -- fiefdom, why didn't the
:16:58. > :17:02.Labour machine a step in to do something? What forces were over?
:17:03. > :17:06.The fundamental force at work was that everybody in the Labour Party
:17:07. > :17:12.in South Wales, almost, thought that call nationalisation was the jewel
:17:13. > :17:18.in the Crown of current active plasma governments of the Aberfan
:17:19. > :17:23.defeat in 1967 was deeply depressing because a string of Labour MPs stood
:17:24. > :17:27.up and have nothing to say, two good speeches, one by Leeuwarden who
:17:28. > :17:30.represented South Wales but did not have mining links and won by
:17:31. > :17:34.Margaret Thatcher who had just been appointed as shadow spokeswoman on
:17:35. > :17:39.power and almost got to the heart of the matter. What did she say? She
:17:40. > :17:46.said, why were two officials whom she named kept out of it? And why
:17:47. > :17:50.had Mr Sheppard, who we saw last night, Green promoted? These were
:17:51. > :17:54.excellent questioned and the Government spokesman had no answer.
:17:55. > :18:00.We've been pointed at George Thomas Bosman rule, what was the premise
:18:01. > :18:06.to's rule? I give Harold Wilson lots of credit, the machinations that
:18:07. > :18:09.were going on in the summer of 19 six to seven weather report came out
:18:10. > :18:15.all laid out in rigid Crossman's diaries so we know what happened. --
:18:16. > :18:19.19 67. Harold Wilson wrote in Green ink on this copy, this report is
:18:20. > :18:22.devastating and it was one of the ministers that want sacked Rubens
:18:23. > :18:29.but the majority of the Cabinet wouldn't have it. By the time of the
:18:30. > :18:33.George Thomas a fair in paying for the removal of the tips the Prime
:18:34. > :18:36.Minister had faded out of the story, it was a Welsh matter and up to the
:18:37. > :18:40.Secretary of State for Wales. I think stopping that nonsense is
:18:41. > :18:45.something that Harold Wilson could and should have done, the Government
:18:46. > :18:49.collectively should have done and they didn't. When we look at today's
:18:50. > :18:53.situation, not just with the media but the way Government works, we've
:18:54. > :18:57.reported recently on Hillsborough, 1989, the fact it took so long for
:18:58. > :19:02.South Yorkshire Police to be corrected in a very big way in terms
:19:03. > :19:07.of how they behave. If someone asked you today includes 16, could we see
:19:08. > :19:12.a response to a major disaster involving in the same kind of way,
:19:13. > :19:16.what would you answer be? In some ways I fear it would be the same
:19:17. > :19:22.because of the incentive for people in power to cover up. In other ways
:19:23. > :19:25.not. Clearly Lord Rubens and Mr Shepherd would not have survived
:19:26. > :19:29.five minutes in the modern climate, on the other hand Hillsborough story
:19:30. > :19:35.is not entirely reassuring, it's taken 25 years and even in current
:19:36. > :19:41.times there are about what is involving South Yorkshire Police. --
:19:42. > :19:45.there are backwaters. Things are better but not necessarily that much
:19:46. > :19:48.better. Thanks for enjoying us and I'm pleased undermine mind if I were
:19:49. > :19:53.working done over the years on this. Thank you. In those distant days the
:19:54. > :20:00.Wells purse strings were tightly controlled here at Westminster.
:20:01. > :20:03.These days the Welsh element do have some freedom to spend the Welsh
:20:04. > :20:06.budget as a blizzard and the budget announcement this week was a chance
:20:07. > :20:10.to spell a new priority is after the elections with help of Plaid Cymru.
:20:11. > :20:16.Its joint R.N. Jones in the Senate. It is a Welsh, set out how it
:20:17. > :20:19.intends to spend the best part of ?15 billion it gets from the UK
:20:20. > :20:23.Government next year, today we find out how much will go to local
:20:24. > :20:27.authorities ahead of those all-important council elections next
:20:28. > :20:30.year, plenty to discuss with my guest, the finance and Local
:20:31. > :20:34.Government Secretary Margaret Clifford. Thank you for joining us
:20:35. > :20:38.on the Wells report. Freshly your first budget and you must have been
:20:39. > :20:45.quite pleased the UK Government give you some extra cash to spend? My job
:20:46. > :20:49.has been made easier by the fact we have a little more revenue that we
:20:50. > :20:54.might have expected for the next financial year. It's been made a lot
:20:55. > :20:58.more difficult, however, by the highly uncertain circumstances in
:20:59. > :21:02.which we make a budget. The impact of Brexit and Autumn Statement we
:21:03. > :21:07.won't see until November and so on. We'll come to Brexit in a moment but
:21:08. > :21:10.the amount of money you get from the UK Government, we new steering from
:21:11. > :21:14.the Welsh Government austerity and challenges you face and the problems
:21:15. > :21:18.caused by the UK Government policies, this year surely you
:21:19. > :21:21.should welcome the fact that austerity shouldn't have such a
:21:22. > :21:24.large part in your spending priorities? We have been very clear
:21:25. > :21:31.throughout that austerity is a foolish and self-defeating policy.
:21:32. > :21:36.What we have over the period of this assembly is budget that go down
:21:37. > :21:43.every year beyond this year and we will have 9% less in real terms to
:21:44. > :21:48.spent in 2019 than 2009, our capital budget will go down by a third, this
:21:49. > :21:53.is a very small and very marginal respite in a journey that otherwise
:21:54. > :21:57.has only one direction. UK Government say that over the next
:21:58. > :22:01.four years we will give the Welsh Government an additional ?370
:22:02. > :22:07.million that is something? The money goes up in cash terms but everything
:22:08. > :22:12.else goes up as well, wages rise, price rises and so on, in real terms
:22:13. > :22:18.budget goes down and will have ?1.5 billion less to spend on vital
:22:19. > :22:23.public services than we did a decade ago. After so many increases this
:22:24. > :22:26.year, more for the health service and apprenticeships and a pilot
:22:27. > :22:31.scheme, only ?10 million this year for additional childcare that could
:22:32. > :22:36.go up to ?2 million a year, we are other savings going to be coming?
:22:37. > :22:41.Over the next few years we will face harder choices and more difficult
:22:42. > :22:45.times, I've booed at the very clear to my Cabinet colleagues and the
:22:46. > :22:51.services we find. -- I've made that very clear. In this budget we had to
:22:52. > :22:56.decide to stop some projects that are time-limited and will not be
:22:57. > :23:00.funded next year, we will have to make adjustments, it's a matter of
:23:01. > :23:03.priorities when you set a budget, we are determined to deliver on the
:23:04. > :23:08.ambitious programme we set before the voters in May of next year and
:23:09. > :23:13.some things will have to be pulled back or stop altogether in future
:23:14. > :23:17.budgets to allow for that to happen. When you look at the possibilities
:23:18. > :23:22.of the possible problems that might be thrown about Brexit, positive
:23:23. > :23:28.stories as well but may be problems, how concerned are you about the
:23:29. > :23:30.possibility, for example we saw the leaked Treasury report, ?66 billion
:23:31. > :23:35.over deficit and a black qualified as is, how much of a concern is
:23:36. > :23:39.that? It is a major concern, the Welsh Government were unambiguous in
:23:40. > :23:43.our advice to people in June that the future of Wales would be better
:23:44. > :23:47.protected in the European Union than out of it. We got a different
:23:48. > :23:50.message back and we live with that and have to act on it but there are
:23:51. > :23:55.two mad difficulties, at least the flow from it, funding that we were
:23:56. > :24:00.guaranteed to get from Europe might not, are we after we leave the
:24:01. > :24:04.European Union. And more significantly the ?66 billion figure
:24:05. > :24:09.is the result of a calculation outside the European Union UK
:24:10. > :24:14.economy will grow more slowly than it would have done if we were in the
:24:15. > :24:19.European Union, that will lead to a reduction in tax receipts and that
:24:20. > :24:23.will flow into even further cuts for public services. What will be the
:24:24. > :24:27.knock-on effect in terms of your spending? Further cuts but also for
:24:28. > :24:32.the first time the Welsh Government and you as the finest secretary have
:24:33. > :24:35.at your disposal additional levers for taxation levers, do you think
:24:36. > :24:41.you might have to consider using those to give a boost to the
:24:42. > :24:47.economy? The taxes we will inherit in April 2018 are modest but
:24:48. > :24:50.important, the message we've had unambiguously from people who work
:24:51. > :24:54.in these fields is they need a smooth transition from the system we
:24:55. > :25:03.have now to the one in the future so I don't envisage rapid or clinking
:25:04. > :25:06.changes of here to gear in how we employ those, but there will be
:25:07. > :25:11.levers the Welsh Government in the future has in its hands. A sensible
:25:12. > :25:14.person in my position will wait to see the circumstances they face much
:25:15. > :25:18.closer to the time before deciding how to use them. You will know in
:25:19. > :25:23.the election manifesto ahead of me's assembly elections you committed not
:25:24. > :25:28.to increase income tax, is that still your guarantee for this
:25:29. > :25:32.assembly term at least? I don't see them circumstances in which income
:25:33. > :25:36.tax rates will vary in the early period we get these powers come if
:25:37. > :25:40.we get them, we haven't even got the power is as yet, we are speaking
:25:41. > :25:45.about some fairly remote contingencies. If income tax varying
:25:46. > :25:49.powers come to Wales in early period quite certainly we will take
:25:50. > :25:53.precautionary approach to their use but any Government would to reserve
:25:54. > :25:57.the right to weigh up all the circumstances we faced at the time
:25:58. > :26:02.you face them. But not in this assembly? Not until after the next
:26:03. > :26:06.election? I wouldn't envisage it. Another element of uncertainty is we
:26:07. > :26:11.have the Autumn Statement, next year the Government plans her day was
:26:12. > :26:15.spend over the next few years, why didn't you wait until you know what
:26:16. > :26:19.will come then before announcing this year's budget? I'm bound by the
:26:20. > :26:24.rules of the National Assembly for Wales, there is a timetable of
:26:25. > :26:28.standing orders. He waited last year, the budget was little last
:26:29. > :26:33.year, why not do the same this year? We made a commitment to stick to
:26:34. > :26:36.timetable that allows the assembly and its various committees to
:26:37. > :26:38.scrutinise our budget and do it according to the timetable that
:26:39. > :26:44.gives them the time they need to do that, although they would have been
:26:45. > :26:48.advantages in which into the 23rd of November it would have squeezed
:26:49. > :26:53.those timetables very radically, I did not want to be in that position.
:26:54. > :26:56.You might have to change it now with Philip Hammond comes out and says
:26:57. > :27:00.anything major you might have to change again? Had to make a judgment
:27:01. > :27:03.as to what we might expect in the Autumn Statement, I laid a four-year
:27:04. > :27:08.capital budget because if there are signs out of Whitehall it might be
:27:09. > :27:14.there will be some booze to infrastructure spending and
:27:15. > :27:17.therefore all I would do is add to the ability of Cabinet colleagues to
:27:18. > :27:22.build on what they already know. We found out today Hamide Kurt us will
:27:23. > :27:26.get, slightly up and some slightly down but inflation is taken into
:27:27. > :27:35.account, they are all down. -- how much each council. There is still
:27:36. > :27:40.cut the head. What would you sit any council thinking of increasing
:27:41. > :27:45.council tax? The are to you my message to them, we have been able
:27:46. > :27:48.to provide an 18 month period of relative stability to our public
:27:49. > :27:51.services including local Government but there are more difficult choices
:27:52. > :27:56.and more difficult times ahead and they must use this period of
:27:57. > :28:02.stability to prepare for that, they must think it is a period to sit
:28:03. > :28:05.back and have a breather because for one year things are less awful than
:28:06. > :28:12.they have been, they must use this period purposefully. In terms of
:28:13. > :28:16.council tax I expect them to weigh up what I know are some competing
:28:17. > :28:20.priorities, they must make a contribution to public services
:28:21. > :28:24.through the council tax and think of those high prices and is the have to
:28:25. > :28:30.bear the burden. Thank you for your time this evening, letters of us.
:28:31. > :28:32.That was the finance secretary a short while ago.
:28:33. > :28:37.If you'd like to get in touch with us about what's been discussed
:28:38. > :28:39.tonight or anything else, email us at
:28:40. > :28:40.thewalesreport@bbc.co.uk, or follow us on social media,
:28:41. > :28:47.We'll leave you now with some poignant images from Aberfan,
:28:48. > :28:49.taken in the aftermath of the disaster by American
:28:50. > :28:58.Half a century on the pain of Aberfan and the injustice suffered
:28:59. > :29:00.not forgotten. Everyone's living these
:29:01. > :29:26.amazing lives, You're like a...
:29:27. > :29:38.Different person?