:00:00. > :00:00.It's official - the Brexit process is underway.
:00:00. > :00:09.We speak to Wales' voice at the cabinet table,
:00:10. > :00:14.And protecting our past for future generations ?
:00:15. > :00:17.could plans to create a new heritage body
:00:18. > :00:31.Change is coming, but that change must leave our heritage
:00:32. > :00:32.organisations with the expertise and cloud to be able to protect our
:00:33. > :00:36.historic treasures. -- cloud. Good evening and welcome
:00:37. > :00:45.to The Wales Report. So, the Brexit journey
:00:46. > :00:47.has gone up a gear. Tonight, MPs voted with
:00:48. > :00:51.the Government to get the formal A little earlier, two days of debate
:00:52. > :01:08.on triggering Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty to start
:01:09. > :01:11.that process came to a close, with a majority in favour
:01:12. > :01:13.of starting official talks between the UK and
:01:14. > :01:23.the European Union. The ayes to the right, 498, the noes
:01:24. > :01:27.to the left, 114. So the ayes have it. The ayes have it.
:01:28. > :01:29.So, they have had their say, and now you can have yours.
:01:30. > :01:31.You can join in the discussion tonight.
:01:32. > :01:45.In a minute, we will be speaking to Wales' voice at the Cabinet table,
:01:46. > :01:47.Alun Cairns. But how far apart at the British and
:01:48. > :01:47.world governments? Here's political
:01:48. > :01:53.commentator Daran Hill. I think the British government are
:01:54. > :01:57.in a difficult position. They don't have any legal right to impact on
:01:58. > :02:03.the final decision, but in a moral and political reasons, -- there are
:02:04. > :02:07.moral and article reasons why they need to be involved. It seems to me
:02:08. > :02:11.that over the last few weeks, particularly from the point when
:02:12. > :02:16.Theresa May set out their stall with the 12 points that she illustrated,
:02:17. > :02:20.and then we saw clear white paper from the Welsh government in terms
:02:21. > :02:25.of what they wanted, there is a lot less bluster around now, and people
:02:26. > :02:27.can actually, hopefully, from both sides look to come together and try
:02:28. > :02:29.to achieve what is best for Wales. Someone who was
:02:30. > :02:32.at that meeting on Monday is Finance Secretary
:02:33. > :02:43.Mark Drakeford. The First Minister for Wales again
:02:44. > :02:46.emphasised our top priority is full and unfettered participation in the
:02:47. > :02:50.single market, because that will have the greatest economic impact
:02:51. > :02:54.here in Wales. The Prime Minister agreed at the end of the meeting
:02:55. > :02:59.that there should be intensification of discussions of these matters at
:03:00. > :03:03.the GMC that has been set up for this particular purpose. It is very
:03:04. > :03:06.important from the devolved administration's point of view that
:03:07. > :03:13.we get on with that work, we do it pays only -- purposefully, and that
:03:14. > :03:17.the views we are expressing in that form are seen to make a difference
:03:18. > :03:20.to the UK Government's negotiating position. I think we begin to hear
:03:21. > :03:25.UK ministers use some of the language we have used in relation to
:03:26. > :03:29.the importance of access to the single market, the fullest possible
:03:30. > :03:32.access. The Prime Minister said the extent
:03:33. > :03:37.to which the UK Government is prepared to make the necessary
:03:38. > :03:41.trade-offs between single market access and other parts of the
:03:42. > :03:47.negotiations is something we need to pursue with the remaining JNC
:03:48. > :03:51.discussions. We say unambiguously that Wales must do no words out of
:03:52. > :03:55.our membership of the United Kingdom than we have done out of our
:03:56. > :03:57.membership of the European Union, and we will pursue that line of
:03:58. > :03:59.argument throughout the discussions. The Finance Secretary
:04:00. > :04:00.Mark Drakeford there. Earlier, I spoke to the Secretary
:04:01. > :04:10.of State for Wales, I asked him how much of a voice
:04:11. > :04:13.Wales and the Welsh government should have in those negotiations.
:04:14. > :04:19.Well, Wales has got a strong say. I sat on the Cabinet subcommittee and
:04:20. > :04:25.the Cabinet committee that will ultimately make the decision, but in
:04:26. > :04:29.getting to that decision, or those decisions, there are the joint
:04:30. > :04:32.ministerial committee, the one that the Prime Minister chaired earlier
:04:33. > :04:35.this week, as well as the fortnightly meeting that David Davis
:04:36. > :04:40.chairs. So I have the privilege of sitting on all of them, and on top
:04:41. > :04:44.of that, we have the bilateral arrangements that I meet the First
:04:45. > :04:48.Minister regularly, and talk to Mark Drakeford, leaving for the Welsh
:04:49. > :04:51.government, too. But you have made clear this is a UK Government
:04:52. > :04:54.decision. We know what the Welsh government
:04:55. > :05:00.wants when it comes to, for example, the single market. They want full
:05:01. > :05:02.and unfettered access. Will they get that?
:05:03. > :05:06.Well, we want a free trade agreement, and I think the Welsh
:05:07. > :05:10.government have recognised that their phrasing of unfettered access
:05:11. > :05:13.to the single market is not inconsistent with the Prime Minister
:05:14. > :05:17.and the UK Government's position that we want a free trade agreement.
:05:18. > :05:20.So on that basis, I am confident that we can get a deal that works
:05:21. > :05:25.for every part of the UK, including Wales. A manufacturer based in Wales
:05:26. > :05:29.will have similar concerns to one based in the West Midlands or east
:05:30. > :05:33.Midlands, and farmers based in Wales will have similar concerns to
:05:34. > :05:35.farmers based in Cumbria or Scotland.
:05:36. > :05:39.So you are saying that the Welsh government, we will get full and
:05:40. > :05:43.unfettered access to the single market, your wording, I think, as a
:05:44. > :05:48.government, is the greatest possible access. Is there a difference there?
:05:49. > :05:51.Well, the First Minister has said that he doesn't see an
:05:52. > :05:54.inconsistency. Do you think there is a difference? No, I don't think
:05:55. > :05:58.there is a difference, because we want a free trade agreement which is
:05:59. > :06:01.similar to that which Canada has got, which Mexico has got, but we
:06:02. > :06:07.want one which is right for the UK, and on that basis, we will negotiate
:06:08. > :06:10.on a deal that works for every part of the country and Wales being a
:06:11. > :06:15.fundamental part. So that means freedom of movement,
:06:16. > :06:18.doesn't it? If we have full and unfettered access to the single
:06:19. > :06:24.market, we have two except free movement of people? Well, we want a
:06:25. > :06:29.free trade agreement. Free trade agreements don't have the same
:06:30. > :06:34.principle of the free movement of people. Immigration is a good thing,
:06:35. > :06:37.but on that basis, we need to manage immigration appropriately to make
:06:38. > :06:42.sure it works for every community in the UK and specifically Wales.
:06:43. > :06:45.Well, these are part of the negotiations, so that is why we want
:06:46. > :06:48.a free trade agreement, but membership of the single market that
:06:49. > :06:51.some are calling for requires free movement of people, so on that
:06:52. > :06:58.basis, we cannot be a member of the single market, because that would
:06:59. > :07:02.mean remaining a member of the EU by some other name. So therefore, we
:07:03. > :07:05.want a free trade agreement that would allow a Welsh business or a
:07:06. > :07:11.Welsh farmer 's import and export to and from Europe. It is in Europe's
:07:12. > :07:15.interest that our economy continues to grow, as well as in our interest
:07:16. > :07:19.that Europe continues to grow. We went Europe to be a success,
:07:20. > :07:21.although we will have a slightly different relationship. So to be
:07:22. > :07:24.clear, we would no longer be a member of the single market, but
:07:25. > :07:28.would have full and unfettered access to it, we wouldn't except
:07:29. > :07:32.free movement of people, so there would be a cost. There would be a
:07:33. > :07:36.financial cost, and we would be paying into the EU pot, wouldn't we
:07:37. > :07:40.tee we have said that we want a free trade agreement. There will be terms
:07:41. > :07:45.associated with that free trade agreement, and that's what the
:07:46. > :07:49.negotiations are about. Me too outline exactly the detail terms,
:07:50. > :07:52.because there are two macro parties to negotiation, and on that basis,
:07:53. > :07:55.we want to get the deal that work for everybody in the UK. But the
:07:56. > :08:03.Prime Minister has also said that no deal is better than a bad deal, so I
:08:04. > :08:06.am optimistic. Let's just stay and contributions. It was a big part of
:08:07. > :08:13.the referendum. People fed up of paying into Brussels, and what we
:08:14. > :08:17.have had from is that we will no longer be making that contributions
:08:18. > :08:22.to the EU. -- what we have had from Theresa May. Their words are that we
:08:23. > :08:25.will not be paying vast sums, but will still be paying into the pot, I
:08:26. > :08:29.will have to pay to get access to the single market. The people of
:08:30. > :08:33.Wales want to know will Welsh taxpayers still be paying into the
:08:34. > :08:37.EU pot, yes or no? I think you are reading between the lines and coming
:08:38. > :08:41.up with a conclusion we simply have not got to. There is a negotiation
:08:42. > :08:44.that will take place. Clearly, I want the best deal that works for
:08:45. > :08:49.every part of the UK and I am at the Cabinet table. Clearly, but I am
:08:50. > :08:54.just wondering whether you can give Welsh taxpayers, then, I guarantee
:08:55. > :08:58.that they won't be paying into an EU pot? Can you give that guarantee?
:08:59. > :09:02.This is part of a negotiation. I can't second-guess where we will get
:09:03. > :09:05.to, because there is a long way to go with that process. I am
:09:06. > :09:08.optimistic with our relationship with Europe. We want Europe to
:09:09. > :09:11.succeed and we believe it is in their interest for us to continue to
:09:12. > :09:15.grow. We have the fastest growing economy in the developed world, and
:09:16. > :09:22.the fastest in Europe, and if you think back to the recession over the
:09:23. > :09:27.last five or six, seven years ago, when we were at risk of a double dip
:09:28. > :09:30.or even triple dip recession, it is the UK that drag Europe out of that
:09:31. > :09:33.recession, so therefore I am optimistic that we need to get that
:09:34. > :09:37.good deal that works through every part of the UK and every industry,
:09:38. > :09:41.particularly in Wales. You are an optimistic Brexiteer.
:09:42. > :09:47.Back in June, you were saying we need EU because the economy is built
:09:48. > :09:49.around it, Tata depends on it, manufacturing and the automotive
:09:50. > :09:55.industry depend on it. You have clearly changed your mind, and you
:09:56. > :09:58.could argue you are following the Democratic vote, but personally, how
:09:59. > :10:01.do you find that? How difficult is it personally to be doing now in
:10:02. > :10:06.favour of something you very much opposed a few months ago? Well, we
:10:07. > :10:09.have been given direction by the British people, but specifically, in
:10:10. > :10:14.Wales, by the Welsh people, who voted to leave the EU. But I would
:10:15. > :10:18.also say the same time, there were many independent and economists that
:10:19. > :10:23.said we would be in recession by this stage. That is not the case. In
:10:24. > :10:29.fact, the IMF has upgraded the growth projection for the UK. So
:10:30. > :10:33.were you on the wrong side of the argument during a referendum? Were
:10:34. > :10:35.you wrong? Well, I think when the facts change, and there is an
:10:36. > :10:40.outcome of a referendum, you have got to act on that, and develop the
:10:41. > :10:45.approach according to the fact that exist at the time. But do you group
:10:46. > :10:49.regret the way you campaign? Know, at the time, that was the best
:10:50. > :10:52.information we had available, but the public in Wales and across the
:10:53. > :10:57.UK rejected that and therefore, we said that the referendum would be
:10:58. > :11:02.binding and work on that, and that is what we are doing. Now, no land
:11:03. > :11:06.grab has been said about the powers that are currently in Brussels, that
:11:07. > :11:11.Theresa May won't be effecting any land grab of powers, and anything
:11:12. > :11:15.that is devolved will be coming straight back to Wales. Is that your
:11:16. > :11:19.understanding? And fisheries, and fishing, everything will come
:11:20. > :11:24.directly to Cardiff a? That is the principal on the bases which we are
:11:25. > :11:26.working. We want devolution. The Wales Bill has just passed,
:11:27. > :11:30.extending the powers of the Welsh government and assembly extensively,
:11:31. > :11:34.and I hope people would like the approach we took there to
:11:35. > :11:38.demonstrate the approach we will take to negotiate in the accident of
:11:39. > :11:47.the European Union and where there's powers will lie. I would also say at
:11:48. > :11:49.the same time, we need to get the transitions and make the other
:11:50. > :11:54.devolved leaders realise that the market within the UK works as well,
:11:55. > :11:58.so state aid rules, for example, and there needs to be a framework that
:11:59. > :12:01.will work for every part of the UK. So I am optimistic we can get to
:12:02. > :12:05.that position. No specific decisions on individual elements have yet been
:12:06. > :12:10.taken, because we don't know the form of a negotiation yet with the
:12:11. > :12:14.EU, but we have talked about the principle that we want to devolve as
:12:15. > :12:17.much as possible, we want to give as much flexibility to the devolved
:12:18. > :12:22.administrations to act within the areas that they act at the moment,
:12:23. > :12:26.but of course, we need to ensure that the UK market works as well as
:12:27. > :12:29.the positives that come out of exiting the European Union or the
:12:30. > :12:35.new positives, I would say, and that is striking trade deals with other
:12:36. > :12:39.parts of the world. So at the UK Government negotiates with the parts
:12:40. > :12:43.of the world, be that Australia or North America, for example, we need
:12:44. > :12:46.to be able to command a negotiating position that takes all of the UK
:12:47. > :12:50.with us. And on that, and free-trade deals
:12:51. > :12:55.beyond EU, what will be the approach? Will it be a bit like
:12:56. > :12:59.Trump, America first? Will it be Britain's first tee will there be a
:13:00. > :13:04.Briton and a Wales which is more protectionist after Brexit? Is that
:13:05. > :13:06.the model? You would expect any Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
:13:07. > :13:12.to put the United Kingdom's interests first. Those are -- that
:13:13. > :13:15.is the basis on which we are working. We want trade agreement
:13:16. > :13:18.internationally. Lots of countries are showing interest in negotiating
:13:19. > :13:23.with us, but the trade deal on the right terms that work for us as well
:13:24. > :13:27.as for that nation. And I think there is a great prospect. The Prime
:13:28. > :13:31.Minister has said she wants the UK to be global leaders in free trade,
:13:32. > :13:37.but that is not to undermine any particular sector of the UK economy.
:13:38. > :13:40.We are seeing as an open economy, we gain economic recognition for being
:13:41. > :13:46.an open economy, and economic benefits as a result. Continue along
:13:47. > :13:49.that track, it offers great benefits to Wales in the UK.
:13:50. > :13:52.And relationships with the US will be crucial in trade deals. Let's
:13:53. > :13:56.talk about Mr Trump. You would love to see him in Wales, you have said.
:13:57. > :13:58.We think he is coming on a state visit at the moment. You would
:13:59. > :14:07.welcome him in Wales? An invitation has been extended and
:14:08. > :14:13.that has been received and accepted and we are working on that basis. He
:14:14. > :14:16.will be welcome to the United Kingdom and Wales is the fundamental
:14:17. > :14:21.part of the UK and that is the way we will continue to act. Were we
:14:22. > :14:25.quick as the government to roll out the red carpet for him?
:14:26. > :14:30.The best way to influence any world leader is to engage positively to
:14:31. > :14:34.them. If you go back to last three, the Prime Minister went to
:14:35. > :14:38.Washington, there were some concerns as to some of the comments that had
:14:39. > :14:46.been made during the presidential campaign about the President's's
:14:47. > :14:56.attitude towards Nato. But by engaging positively, the Prime
:14:57. > :15:04.Minister got the 100% support of the president. The June oh Theresa May
:15:05. > :15:12.new Donald Trump would make an announcement on the restrictions on
:15:13. > :15:16.travel from seven Muslim countries? Metcher is made of those comments at
:15:17. > :15:20.the time but since then I've I wonder she knew he was going to make
:15:21. > :15:26.that announcement. She has made her position clear and
:15:27. > :15:30.I have made my position clear that we disagree. The only way to try to
:15:31. > :15:35.influence somebody positively is by engaging with them. So she did not
:15:36. > :15:40.know? You are in the cabinet with her. Did she knows he was about to
:15:41. > :15:46.make that announcement? The Prime Minister made it clear she disagrees
:15:47. > :15:49.with it. I don't see the logic behind the question because the
:15:50. > :15:54.Prime Minister has made it clear. The Prime Minister always acts on
:15:55. > :15:57.evidence. It has been some confusion coming out of the State Department
:15:58. > :16:02.about the details surrounding the statement. If she did know, I wonder
:16:03. > :16:07.if she encouraged him not to go ahead with it. If she did not know,
:16:08. > :16:11.what does that say about the relationship? Once she is out the
:16:12. > :16:17.door he lands aid bombshell that perhaps she would have had like to
:16:18. > :16:21.have knowledge of. Donald Trump is one of the most powerful leaders in
:16:22. > :16:28.the world. We should engage positively with them. It is in our
:16:29. > :16:35.interest to try to influence positively towards... For them to
:16:36. > :16:40.understand our position. That is the mature way in which any relationship
:16:41. > :16:44.works whereby you can say when you disagree with the policy, as the
:16:45. > :16:47.Prime Minister has understandably said, but also you can try to
:16:48. > :16:53.influence them, to win them around to see things your way. Given those
:16:54. > :16:59.comments now, I went if you feel it would be wise to postpone the state
:17:00. > :17:05.visit until next year, perhaps, or is it any much as soon as is of?
:17:06. > :17:10.An invitation has been extended, that has then received and accepted.
:17:11. > :17:13.On that basis the Times would be negotiated between the governments.
:17:14. > :17:18.That is the mature way in which to engage. The more positive influence
:17:19. > :17:24.we can have on any world leader is it good thing for the UK. If Wales
:17:25. > :17:28.is part of the UK and this to have its own influence, I want to play
:17:29. > :17:35.any part of it. The Brexit negotiations get underway. That is
:17:36. > :17:39.at the time when the long torturous nights, discussing The Wales Bill
:17:40. > :17:44.had come to an end. You must be glad to see the back of that. That is the
:17:45. > :17:51.bumpy ride. I was confident The Wales Bill would go through because
:17:52. > :17:55.it was eight good deal for Wales. That means any -based funding
:17:56. > :18:01.settlement has been introduced. What that means is Wales gets additional
:18:02. > :18:05.resource because of the special circumstances in Wales. You and I
:18:06. > :18:08.will know that opposition politicians, labour, Plaid Cymru,
:18:09. > :18:11.the Liberal Democrat and Conservative politicians have been
:18:12. > :18:18.asking for this for over the decade. I was delighted that as Secretary
:18:19. > :18:21.state for Wales, it was UK Conservative government that could
:18:22. > :18:26.bring about in long-term fair funding settlement for Wales. They
:18:27. > :18:36.are not my words, they are the world of Jeremy Hunt. -- Jeremy Hall firm.
:18:37. > :18:41.Those politicians you mention are calling for a new settlement. This
:18:42. > :18:45.doesn't constitute the end. Can you guarantee they will not be another
:18:46. > :18:51.The Wales Bill? Powers are returning from the
:18:52. > :18:54.European Union and many of those will be devolved as we have said in
:18:55. > :19:00.terms of the principles as word approaching it. Devolution will
:19:01. > :19:04.involve to the change in circumstances that take place, as
:19:05. > :19:09.the economy demands more we will look at that. As the economy demands
:19:10. > :19:13.may be different sort of devolution, where power goes direct to
:19:14. > :19:18.communities, that is positive thing as well. We are not fixed in our
:19:19. > :19:23.dears. This is lasting settlement that gives is clarity but it gives
:19:24. > :19:26.the most fair, generous funding settlement is we have seen. Thank
:19:27. > :19:28.you very much. So that's a look at the future,
:19:29. > :19:31.perhaps, but what about our past? The Welsh Government
:19:32. > :19:33.wants to introduce a new It would bring together
:19:34. > :19:37.the commercial parts of National Museums Wales and Cadw,
:19:38. > :19:41.an arm of the Welsh Government responsible for protecting
:19:42. > :19:44.historic sites. The idea of a merger though has
:19:45. > :19:48.caused great concern among experts, who believe it could undermine
:19:49. > :19:51.the independence of our national museums and leave the
:19:52. > :20:19.organisation as they put it What is it about Wales that is
:20:20. > :20:25.unique, special and worth protecting? Heritage is incredibly
:20:26. > :20:28.important to our country whose national identity has been
:20:29. > :20:33.challenged time and time again by the march of history. It is how we
:20:34. > :20:39.tell our national story both to ourselves and to the world. Stories
:20:40. > :20:44.like the one that unfolded here in Monmouth where chartists were tried
:20:45. > :20:52.for high treason following the Newport rising. To some extent, we
:20:53. > :20:56.define ourselves by these events. So why is the heritage sector in Wales
:20:57. > :21:02.finding itself put on trial? The numbers tell their own story.
:21:03. > :21:07.Heritage sites attract 30 million visitors annually and contribute
:21:08. > :21:12.?750 million to the economy. But we can't simply look at this in terms
:21:13. > :21:18.of cold, hard finance. Heritage is too important to be left to
:21:19. > :21:22.accountant. That is why decent proposals have left the heritage
:21:23. > :21:26.sector reeling. The commercial operations of our main providers,
:21:27. > :21:30.national museums Wales and Cadw could be merged into new
:21:31. > :21:35.organisation end the umbrella title of Historic Wales. Most government
:21:36. > :21:43.argued this would make the sector more robust. That may well be true.
:21:44. > :21:47.The merger may leave is better equipped to pay for our heritage but
:21:48. > :21:53.will it leave is properly equipped to protect it? Independence is
:21:54. > :21:57.important here. The national museum operates at arms length from Welsh
:21:58. > :22:02.Government and any effort to change that relationship would be without
:22:03. > :22:08.precedent in the British Isles. No other national museum in the UK is
:22:09. > :22:15.directly run by its government. And for good reason. Do you really want
:22:16. > :22:18.politicians deciding which part of Welsh distillery are the right parts
:22:19. > :22:23.to share with the nation and the world? Museums must not freely of
:22:24. > :22:28.political control or their ability to tell the story of our history
:22:29. > :22:32.will be severely compromised. Of course, we are in any time of
:22:33. > :22:36.squeezed public spending and heritage institutions are not immune
:22:37. > :22:41.to this and need to adapt. But there adaptation have to mean loss of
:22:42. > :22:46.control? All the while, you can't escape the feeling we have been here
:22:47. > :22:51.before. In 2014, the Welsh Government attempted to merge Cadw
:22:52. > :22:55.with the Royal commission on the historical monuments of Wales. In
:22:56. > :22:59.the face of huge academic and professional hostility the Welsh
:23:00. > :23:01.Government caved on an unpopular proposal which threatened the
:23:02. > :23:08.independence of our heritage providers. We seem to be in the same
:23:09. > :23:13.position now. Have lessons being learned? Or our Welsh Government is
:23:14. > :23:19.going against expert advice and the weight of opinion? Changes come in.
:23:20. > :23:23.That change must leave our heritage organisations with the expertise and
:23:24. > :23:27.clout to be able to protect our historic treasures.
:23:28. > :23:32.The Welsh Government has provided us with the following statement.
:23:33. > :23:53.I'm joined now by Sharon Heal, the Director of the UK
:23:54. > :24:01.Museums Association and the Labour AM Jeremy Miles.
:24:02. > :24:08.Thank you for joining us. Jeremy Miles, let's start off with
:24:09. > :24:13.independence, the points made there. It is crucial. Why change that and
:24:14. > :24:16.why involve the government in the running of museums?
:24:17. > :24:20.The challenge is in the context of financial pressures to find the
:24:21. > :24:23.model which preserves the institution 's ability to protect
:24:24. > :24:28.our heritage but to extend their reach as far as possible. It is the
:24:29. > :24:34.question of finding the right model for doing that. I does recognise the
:24:35. > :24:38.model described in the film. What has been talked about is how the
:24:39. > :24:42.institutions through new body, Historic Wales, can collaborate on
:24:43. > :24:45.the commercial side of things they do rather than an institutional
:24:46. > :24:53.merger which is the sort thing described. Is embedded danger that
:24:54. > :24:57.if you merge the commercial functions that not only will you
:24:58. > :25:01.create the new layout of bureaucracy, another tier of staff
:25:02. > :25:06.and that will end up mired in as bureaucracy but also there is danger
:25:07. > :25:10.you take the opportunity to control and develop that commercial income
:25:11. > :25:16.away from the national museum and away from Cadw as separate
:25:17. > :25:19.organisations? The presses have been obvious for some times. The
:25:20. > :25:24.institutions have been collaborating to try and generate more revenue. It
:25:25. > :25:29.hasn't happened to the extent it needs to happen. What about the
:25:30. > :25:33.editorial independence of museums? Is embedded danger that perhaps
:25:34. > :25:38.Labour government could stress industrial heritage come if we had
:25:39. > :25:42.the Plaid Cymru government they could promote more nationalistic
:25:43. > :25:50.exhibitions in museums. Nobody is talking about that model. But that
:25:51. > :25:54.is the concern. It is possible to find the model which preserves as it
:25:55. > :25:57.should the independence of the institutions but also enables them
:25:58. > :26:06.to work together, to generate revenue. Take the BBC that you
:26:07. > :26:12.having public broadcaster Anne Patterson is being compromised by
:26:13. > :26:19.having eight commercial arm. -- and that hasn't been compromised. It
:26:20. > :26:24.bring money into the Potter people can do what they like in museums.
:26:25. > :26:28.That is misunderstanding of what the commercial functions of museums and
:26:29. > :26:32.galleries are because it isn't just about who runs the cafe, it isn't
:26:33. > :26:36.just about running the shop and retail. Museums have worked hard to
:26:37. > :26:41.generate more income from those sources that it is also about
:26:42. > :26:45.programming, exhibitions, it is about deciding about school visits
:26:46. > :26:49.and community engagement. If you take away the ability of those
:26:50. > :26:52.organisations to be able to determine that, you really disengage
:26:53. > :27:00.them from their own future. That isn't necessarily what is on the
:27:01. > :27:03.table. What is on the table? There is steering group where all the
:27:04. > :27:07.institutions are represented and they are coming up with the model
:27:08. > :27:11.which addresses all the concerns you are talking about. They are
:27:12. > :27:18.participants in that discussions. Do you acknowledge the current way is
:27:19. > :27:23.untenable? Or do you want the status quo?
:27:24. > :27:26.National museums Wales have been at the forefront of leading
:27:27. > :27:31.collaboration and partnership that not just collaboration and
:27:32. > :27:33.partnership with the national organisations, collaboration with
:27:34. > :27:37.their communities and that is the key and at the heart of what museums
:27:38. > :27:43.should be doing in order for them to develop as they sustainable future.
:27:44. > :27:46.No one is saying the status quo, even with the existing
:27:47. > :27:53.collaborations is the way forward. Finally, when Lulu be getting the
:27:54. > :27:56.reports? That's when will we stop it is intended to be early in the year.
:27:57. > :27:58.And you both very much. If you'd like to get
:27:59. > :28:03.in touch email us at Or follow us on social media
:28:04. > :28:09.where the discussion continues. We'll be back next week.
:28:10. > :28:13.Thanks for watching.