:00:00. > :00:09.We talk about the state of social care in Wales -
:00:10. > :00:13.faced with rising demand and increasing costs.
:00:14. > :00:16.The Brexit journey for Wales, and its effect on Labour.
:00:17. > :00:19.We'll be talking to the former leadership contender Owen Smith.
:00:20. > :00:22.And, the rising rate of suicide among men.
:00:23. > :00:25.We'll be talking about tackling isolation and stigma.
:00:26. > :00:36.Good evening, and welcome to The Wales Report.
:00:37. > :00:40.First tonight, the cost of social care in Wales is set to double,
:00:41. > :00:43.more or less, over the next 15 years as the population grows older.
:00:44. > :00:46.The question is, how will that growing demand be met?
:00:47. > :00:48.Remember, you can join in the discussion tonight ?
:00:49. > :00:53.As we approach local government elections in May,
:00:54. > :00:57.one of the questions is how care services provided at home,
:00:58. > :01:00.as well as in residential care homes, are funded.
:01:01. > :01:03.The Welsh Local Government Association says this is the biggest
:01:04. > :01:06.problem faced not just by them but by all decision-makers
:01:07. > :01:10.In a moment, Bethan Rhys Roberts will be asking the Minister
:01:11. > :01:14.for Social Services, Rebecca Evans AM, how she intends
:01:15. > :01:16.to deal with the increasing pressure on the system.
:01:17. > :01:32.Deciding you need support from social services isn't easy for
:01:33. > :01:39.anyone. Margaret Morgan and her husband, Malcolm, always thought
:01:40. > :01:43.they'd be able to stay in their own home, but Malcolm has dementia and
:01:44. > :01:49.he now needs round-the-clock care in a residential home. It hasn't turned
:01:50. > :01:53.out as it was planned. We'd spoken about this quite often and we bought
:01:54. > :01:58.we might be able to live at home and stay at home, but the condition that
:01:59. > :02:02.Malcolm has now, I couldn't look after him at home. I did for as long
:02:03. > :02:10.as I could, and it would have been impossible. Nursing in care homes
:02:11. > :02:15.like this are a vital part of the social care system. They provide
:02:16. > :02:20.around 23,000 beds across Wales, doubled the amount available in the
:02:21. > :02:25.Welsh NHS, so it's clear that homes like this do help to ease the
:02:26. > :02:29.pressure on hospitals. There are concerns that, despite fewer cuts to
:02:30. > :02:34.social care here than in England over the last few years, the care
:02:35. > :02:39.market in Wales is fragile, and that makes the system unsustainable. For
:02:40. > :02:43.Margaret, Malcolm and many others, it's an uncomfortable truth. I worry
:02:44. > :02:47.what I'm going to do and what is going to happen. I don't know what's
:02:48. > :02:52.going to happen. If they haven't got any money now and there are going to
:02:53. > :02:56.be many more older people, it's not a problem that's going to diminish.
:02:57. > :03:05.It's to get worse. It's a great problem. The county of Conwy offers
:03:06. > :03:11.a glimpse of the future. Across Wales, one in five people are over
:03:12. > :03:16.65 but, dear, it's oh -- it's one in four. The proportion in the rest of
:03:17. > :03:21.Wales is opposed to reach that by 2032. Cared -- care providers say
:03:22. > :03:26.that while demand is growing the number of community beds available
:03:27. > :03:31.is shrinking, which in turn is putting more pressure on the health
:03:32. > :03:37.service. Recently we have had seven care homes closing in the county
:03:38. > :03:44.with the loss of 133 beds, 8.4% of local provision, and that's been on
:03:45. > :03:48.top of the homes that have closed in recent years. We've lost around 20%
:03:49. > :03:53.of our provision. We can't meet the current demand, so we are seeing
:03:54. > :03:59.problems in the local hospitals, where there is delayed transfer of
:04:00. > :04:04.care. The deputy manager of the home says the care needs of residents are
:04:05. > :04:09.becoming more and more complex. The needs of clients coming in are
:04:10. > :04:14.increasing. We seem to be getting a lot more residents with quite
:04:15. > :04:22.chronic conditions, sometimes quite acute illnesses that we are looking
:04:23. > :04:24.after their in the homes, rather than, I would imagine in the past,
:04:25. > :04:33.they would have been hospitalised. They are becoming more dependent. In
:04:34. > :04:38.contrast to England, most Welsh care homes are run by small, independent
:04:39. > :04:41.providers meaning that, when costs go up, they are more vulnerable. The
:04:42. > :04:48.pressure is so great now that are having to provide more hours of care
:04:49. > :04:52.than they are being paid for. We are currently funded to provide 23 care
:04:53. > :04:59.hours per resident per week, but we are actually delivering 25, so the
:05:00. > :05:03.two hours per resident per week shortfall we are having to make
:05:04. > :05:07.ourselves from our own funding. These are the most vulnerable people
:05:08. > :05:11.in society we are looking -- we are looking after and we have to make
:05:12. > :05:18.sure we deliver care that they need, and those needs are increasing. They
:05:19. > :05:22.have increased significantly. Funding hasn't kept up. Local
:05:23. > :05:26.government in Wales has called for the funding crisis in social care,
:05:27. > :05:29.including residential care and care at home, to be addressed urgently,
:05:30. > :05:35.but it's the long-term pressures that cause real concern. The health
:05:36. > :05:38.foundation recently published a report which shows the current cost
:05:39. > :05:48.of social care in Wales is 2.3 billion. By 2030, it nearly doubles.
:05:49. > :05:54.The question is, if local authority budgets have gone back in recent
:05:55. > :05:59.years to levels that we had in 2004, 2005, no growth in those benefits,
:06:00. > :06:03.how are we going to meet at anticipated growth in social care?
:06:04. > :06:07.It is clear that social care and health care depend on each other, so
:06:08. > :06:10.local health boards, local authorities and care providers need
:06:11. > :06:18.to work more closely together to deliver a joined up service. I think
:06:19. > :06:22.that's starting to occur in many places. We are starting to see the
:06:23. > :06:28.integrated care fund, ?50 million, where local authorities work closely
:06:29. > :06:32.with authorities, great schemes like extra care schemes, a range of
:06:33. > :06:36.strategies around learning disabilities, but we need to up our
:06:37. > :06:41.game and make sure that those are not isolated examples of good
:06:42. > :06:46.practice, but that good practice travels across Wales. Others believe
:06:47. > :06:52.that poor planning and a lack of political leadership are to blame
:06:53. > :06:56.for the situation. I think we are seeing, in a relatively mild winter,
:06:57. > :07:01.huge pressures and not just in Wales but across the UK, and this is no
:07:02. > :07:04.surprise. This should be no surprise to anybody. The fact that we still
:07:05. > :07:11.don't have an integrated independent care sector of ring step-down
:07:12. > :07:16.respite beds, that is able to care for people with dementia in crisis
:07:17. > :07:20.situations, there is not any cohesive structure to do that, and
:07:21. > :07:25.we should have that by now. The reality is that we are 1 million
:07:26. > :07:33.miles away from where we need to be, where we could have been, and we
:07:34. > :07:36.need a wake-up call. Is that, as Wales's population continues to grow
:07:37. > :07:39.older, demand on both health and social services services will
:07:40. > :07:44.continue to rise. So the difficult question politicians need to address
:07:45. > :07:45.now is, just how will that demand be met?
:07:46. > :07:47.Bethan Rhys Roberts talking to Social Services
:07:48. > :07:54.and Public Health Minister Rebecca Evans.
:07:55. > :08:02.How do you see it? Are we facing a crisis in social care? The Welsh
:08:03. > :08:05.government is under no illusions that there are real pressures in the
:08:06. > :08:11.social care sector, which is why we have prioritised it as a sector of
:08:12. > :08:16.strategic importance, and whilst in England they are cutting the funding
:08:17. > :08:21.for social care, in Wales we are investing in it. An extra ?25
:08:22. > :08:25.million in the budget for social care this year and an extra ?10
:08:26. > :08:29.million to recognise the extra pressures the national living wage
:08:30. > :08:35.will put on the sector. We take these discussions having discussed
:08:36. > :08:38.them with care in Wales. But there is still a shortfall of 92 million.
:08:39. > :08:44.This year, that is despite you putting extra money in. You heard
:08:45. > :08:47.from Margaret Morgan, who is worried about the future. The demand is only
:08:48. > :08:53.going to increase. What is the long-term answer? The social
:08:54. > :08:57.services and well-being act, which came into force last April, was
:08:58. > :09:01.predicated on the understanding that demand for social care will grow and
:09:02. > :09:05.public finances will become tighter, so we are taking a preventative
:09:06. > :09:09.approach, seeking to support people more at home and in the community.
:09:10. > :09:13.Many people don't realise that the number of people having residential
:09:14. > :09:16.care at the moment is declining because of the success of being able
:09:17. > :09:22.to support people at home. But you heard there that we are 1 million
:09:23. > :09:26.miles away from where we should be when it comes to respite care,
:09:27. > :09:30.step-down beds and the sort of help for carers as well. Surely you must
:09:31. > :09:34.be concerned and you could do more. We are not where we want to be yet,
:09:35. > :09:40.but we are investing in integration of social care throughout our
:09:41. > :09:44.immediate care fund that fund is worth ?60 million this year and we
:09:45. > :09:50.pledge to keep that going throughout this Assembly, because we know how
:09:51. > :09:52.important a whole system approaches. Health and social care working
:09:53. > :09:57.together to meet the needs of people. So is the example to
:09:58. > :10:01.integrate it completely? There are two ministers in charge, one of the
:10:02. > :10:08.NHS and you for social care. Should it be fully integrated? The health
:10:09. > :10:12.minister and I work very closely on integration, which we are keen to
:10:13. > :10:16.drive forward. The intermediate care fund is already showing good results
:10:17. > :10:21.in terms of demonstrating numbers saved to the NHS, preventing
:10:22. > :10:26.unnecessary hospital admissions. What about the idea that is
:10:27. > :10:32.happening in England of raising council tax, giving councils the
:10:33. > :10:36.right to raise council tax? Is that a possibility long-term? We are not
:10:37. > :10:38.taking that approach in Wales because the Welsh government is
:10:39. > :10:44.directly investing in social care by providing extra money to local
:10:45. > :10:48.councils. Raising council tax isn't necessarily fair. Some parts of
:10:49. > :10:52.Wales have a much larger proportion of older people than others and
:10:53. > :10:55.obviously, if we were to put the burden on local authorities to raise
:10:56. > :11:01.council tax to pay for that, it would disproportionately affect some
:11:02. > :11:04.areas of Wales. No rise in council tax, you are putting the money in
:11:05. > :11:07.but there is already a shortfall. Are you just going to live year by
:11:08. > :11:14.year with a shortfall and just crisis management? We would like to
:11:15. > :11:19.take a longer, more sustainable look at social care but we need the UK
:11:20. > :11:23.Government to help us. They had an enquiry which produced a report and
:11:24. > :11:25.recommendations on the future of social care funding but
:11:26. > :11:30.unfortunately they have said there will be no change until at least
:11:31. > :11:34.2020 in response to that, so that means we can't plan on
:11:35. > :11:38.consequentials and we don't know what long-term funding will be.
:11:39. > :11:43.These are issues beyond our control but, within our control, we are
:11:44. > :11:48.doing everything can to make social care good quality and fair across
:11:49. > :11:51.Wales. Do you stay at wake -- do you stay awake at night worried about
:11:52. > :11:57.social care and the future and the growing challenge? I am under no
:11:58. > :12:00.illusion how fragile the sector is in Wales and the fact that the Welsh
:12:01. > :12:04.government needs to support it, but we are working hand in hand with the
:12:05. > :12:09.Welsh Local Government Association and the third sector to give us a
:12:10. > :12:13.sustainable approach for the future. Everything we can do in order to try
:12:14. > :12:14.and make the system sustainable and good quality, we are doing.
:12:15. > :12:16.Bethan Rhys Roberts talking to Social Services
:12:17. > :12:18.and Public Health Minister Rebecca Evans.
:12:19. > :12:21.Britain's journey towards Brexit has progressed a little further this
:12:22. > :12:24.week, with the Bill which triggers the Brexit process moving
:12:25. > :12:27.to the House of Lords from the House of Commons.
:12:28. > :12:32.Despite Jeremy Corbyn's instruction that Labour MPs should approve
:12:33. > :12:35.the Article 50 process, not all of his Labour
:12:36. > :12:39.47 Labour MPs rejected party orders last week,
:12:40. > :12:42.and they opposed the Government's Bill.
:12:43. > :12:47.One Labour MP who voted against the Bill, and who stood
:12:48. > :12:50.against Mr Corbyn for the party's leadership last year, is the Member
:12:51. > :13:08.I asked him if he was simply out of touch with public opinion. My view
:13:09. > :13:12.is that I was not elected to parliament for my hometown, my
:13:13. > :13:15.community in order to vote for things that will make my community
:13:16. > :13:18.poorer, and I am absolutely convinced that Brexit, if it goes
:13:19. > :13:25.ahead on the rock-hard terms the Tories are now proposing, for
:13:26. > :13:27.ideological reasons within their own party, in Pontypridd and working
:13:28. > :13:32.class communities like mine across Britain, we will get poorer. We said
:13:33. > :13:38.before the referendum that Brexit on these terms will make Britain... I
:13:39. > :13:43.didn't come into politics to do that to the people I grew up with and
:13:44. > :13:48.represent. Have you discussed your position with Jeremy Corbyn and that
:13:49. > :13:53.you are persisting with your line? I haven't spoken to Jeremy Corbyn
:13:54. > :13:58.since September 30 four. Do you feel a sense of obligation to the leader
:13:59. > :14:02.in the sense that he is trying to maintain a party line? Jeremy Corbyn
:14:03. > :14:07.was always a Eurosceptic and didn't fight for us to stay in the EU, and
:14:08. > :14:12.he is now in my view weaving through a Brexit on the worst possible terms
:14:13. > :14:16.for the people we in the Labour Party are meant to fight for and
:14:17. > :14:20.speak for. I am not prepared to do that, so I'm going to continue
:14:21. > :14:25.making my case and continue to speak up for what I believe to be the best
:14:26. > :14:29.interests of the constituents I represent and the country. The first
:14:30. > :14:33.duty of an MP is to speak without fear or favour in the national
:14:34. > :14:39.interest, and then in the interest of his or her constituents, and I
:14:40. > :14:45.feel absolutely confident and comfortable that I am doing that,
:14:46. > :14:48.and I am also confident that as a democrat those people I represent
:14:49. > :14:51.will have an opportunity at the next election to make their judgment as
:14:52. > :14:55.to whether that will be in their interests or not.
:14:56. > :15:02.What do you say to somebody who comes up to you on the streets of
:15:03. > :15:06.Pontypridd and say, we voted to leave, you are not represented as
:15:07. > :15:10.probably? I have had thousands and thousands of e-mails and letters,
:15:11. > :15:15.many from my constituency. They have been overwhelmingly in favour of the
:15:16. > :15:18.position I have taken. I went to the rugby on Saturday to watch
:15:19. > :15:22.Pontypridd versus Carmarthen, and not a single person came up to me to
:15:23. > :15:25.tell me they thought I was making the wrong decision, but a lot of
:15:26. > :15:31.people came to me saying that I proved what I was doing, the stand I
:15:32. > :15:37.was taking, and even if they didn't agree, they want a politician who
:15:38. > :15:40.has the courage of his convictions. When colleagues talk about party
:15:41. > :15:45.discipline and the fact that it appears disunited, what do you say
:15:46. > :15:52.to them? Do you say that has to take second-place? The party clearly is
:15:53. > :15:55.disunited. Some MPs from the whips' offers are doing the telling and
:15:56. > :16:00.voted against the bill just a few days ago, the party is completely
:16:01. > :16:03.divided on this issue. In that respect, it does reflect the
:16:04. > :16:06.country. The country remains divided. But I'm very clear that
:16:07. > :16:11.Brexit on these terms for sure is going to be bad for people in this
:16:12. > :16:16.country, bad for my constituents, and I'm going to keep saying that.
:16:17. > :16:20.Carwyn Jones was very clear, saying that freedom of movement is
:16:21. > :16:24.politically and issue that has to be dealt with, and that people do have
:16:25. > :16:28.legitimate concerns about levels of immigration. Is that a line that you
:16:29. > :16:32.feel comfortable with yourself? Well, I agree with Carwyn that
:16:33. > :16:36.freedom of movement is something that needs to be addressed across
:16:37. > :16:38.the whole of Europe. I said that during the summer, during the
:16:39. > :16:51.election campaign, and took some criticism for it. But I'm confident
:16:52. > :16:54.that other countries in Europe, France and Germany, also want to
:16:55. > :16:56.address it. It is a common problem across Europe. What I'm equally
:16:57. > :16:59.certain of is that if we were to simply pull up the drawbridge in
:17:00. > :17:01.respect of immigration in this country we would actually be doing
:17:02. > :17:03.ourselves damage in terms of our economic future. And crucially,
:17:04. > :17:09.immigration isn't going to stop once we exit Brexit, once we exit the EU,
:17:10. > :17:12.you know, the reality is that people who are discomfited by immigration,
:17:13. > :17:17.I think it is a mixture of immigration from within the EU and
:17:18. > :17:22.without, there will be no change to immigration from outside the EU. And
:17:23. > :17:24.in reality I suspect that people will be ultimately disappointed,
:17:25. > :17:29.disappointed that they were lied to about the extra money that was meant
:17:30. > :17:36.to come into the NHS, for example the famous ?350 million per week
:17:37. > :17:38.that we're never going to see. And disappointed too there will not be
:17:39. > :17:41.visible, substantive change in terms of immigration. When the First
:17:42. > :17:44.Minister and others within Welsh Labour talk about full and
:17:45. > :17:48.unfettered access to the Single Market, that has been described as
:17:49. > :17:51.completely unrealistic by others, do you think that is a prospect that
:17:52. > :17:56.they should be holding up? I wonder if you think that is deliverable in
:17:57. > :18:00.these circumstances? I absolutely think we should still be aiming to
:18:01. > :18:04.be a member of the Single Market. My view is that, my view is very clear
:18:05. > :18:13.that we will still be better off if we'll within the EU, and we need to
:18:14. > :18:16.hold open that possibility. In case the Government fail to get a thing
:18:17. > :18:18.like a good deal for us on Brexit, rather than falling out of the EU on
:18:19. > :18:22.to a terrible trade organisation terms, we need to retain the
:18:23. > :18:25.possibility of staying in, at least throughout the transitional period.
:18:26. > :18:32.But the crucial thing is of course we now know that the Government or
:18:33. > :18:35.intending to not enter into any further realistic, substantive
:18:36. > :18:40.engagement with the Single Market. Theresa May says we are leaving the
:18:41. > :18:44.Single Market, she says we are also probably leaving the customs union.
:18:45. > :18:47.That is a definition of a rock hard Brexit, the worst kind of Brexit but
:18:48. > :18:52.only the real Eurosceptic head-bangers on the Tory side of the
:18:53. > :18:56.aisle have ever wanted. That's why they are so happy. There is clearly
:18:57. > :18:59.a difference of emphasis between what you are saying and the tactics
:19:00. > :19:04.taken by your colleagues in Cardiff Bay. You asked all basically
:19:05. > :19:08.fighting the campaign to try to the, that is the opposition. Carwyn
:19:09. > :19:11.Jones's view is that there is no question of staying in, it is how we
:19:12. > :19:16.come out, it is not whether we come out, it is how we come up. That
:19:17. > :19:24.difference is therefore alter sees a POI suppose it is. The reality is
:19:25. > :19:26.that the decision will be taken in Westminster, Britain is a member of
:19:27. > :19:29.the EU, not Wales. Of course, colleagues in Cardiff Bay will
:19:30. > :19:33.rightly make their opinions known. I'm disappointed that the Supreme
:19:34. > :19:36.Court didn't rule that there should be more formal consultation with the
:19:37. > :19:41.national assembly, because there ought to be. There will be changes
:19:42. > :19:45.that will have dramatic impacts for Wales. Carwyn Jones ought to have a
:19:46. > :19:49.seat at the table in shaping whatever the future of the country
:19:50. > :19:53.looks like. My contention is that we still don't know where this is going
:19:54. > :19:57.to end. There are many, many unknowns in this long process. This
:19:58. > :20:02.may take two years, like the Tories are telling us, but I suspect it
:20:03. > :20:06.will take a lot longer. During that period, our economy will change, the
:20:07. > :20:10.global security situation may change, the volatile world we live
:20:11. > :20:14.with, Putin at one end and Trump at the other, may change public
:20:15. > :20:18.opinion. It is perfectly conceivable that all of these things may flux
:20:19. > :20:21.and shift over the next few years, and we need to retain the
:20:22. > :20:25.possibility of having continued access to the Single Market, and
:20:26. > :20:27.having continued membership of the European Union. Mr Smith, good of
:20:28. > :20:29.you to come in, thank you very much. The latest facts on male suicide
:20:30. > :20:32.in Wales, according to experts, In Wales, men are nearly
:20:33. > :20:35.four times as likely Male suicide is a particular problem
:20:36. > :20:39.in rural communities, with the latest figures showing that
:20:40. > :20:42.six farmers took their Emma Picton-Jones runs a charity
:20:43. > :20:45.to raise awareness of mental health She set the charity up
:20:46. > :20:51.after her husband Daniel, a farm worker, took his own life
:20:52. > :21:13.in June last year. Daniel and I met just over five
:21:14. > :21:17.years ago. And, you know, we were kind of your average young couple in
:21:18. > :21:20.our 20s. I knew that Daniel had problems with mental health, that
:21:21. > :21:24.was quite apparent from the beginning. He wasn't ever hiding it
:21:25. > :21:29.from me. He was very good at hiding it from other people. Daniel worked
:21:30. > :21:34.on farms. And I think that specific kind of sector is quite an isolated
:21:35. > :21:40.sector. You can be doing 12, 13, 14 hour days on a tractor by yourself
:21:41. > :21:43.at times. I think he found that hard. You are around people who are
:21:44. > :21:45.very masculine. There is a real, like, sense of what you should
:21:46. > :21:58.behave like and how you should be. That night, he said, I think I'm
:21:59. > :22:02.going to go and talk to my Nan. That was really the last time that I saw
:22:03. > :22:11.him. He told us he loved us and gave us a kiss and he went. Looking back
:22:12. > :22:15.now, he was outside. To have ten or 15 minutes before he left. And in
:22:16. > :22:20.hindsight, I mean, I couldn't be too sure but I think he was probably
:22:21. > :22:26.putting things in the car. In order to... I think you probably knew what
:22:27. > :22:31.he was going to do. -- I think he probably knew. The thought never
:22:32. > :22:36.crossed my mind. I thought that the children and myself... I had a phone
:22:37. > :22:40.call at two o'clock. He rang and he said, you know, I love you, he said
:22:41. > :22:44.he was going to go and speak to his mum. I was half asleep and I
:22:45. > :22:48.remember thinking, gosh, it's 2am, why are you going to speak to your
:22:49. > :22:52.mum? Just come home, you know. He said, no, I'm going to go and speak
:22:53. > :22:57.to mum. I love you. That was it, kind of thing. Yeah, so that... He
:22:58. > :23:11.didn't go down to his mum's. Gijon himself. -- Gijon himself. He
:23:12. > :23:18.hung himself on the tree outside his family home. And we actually lived
:23:19. > :23:23.on a caravan there for two years. And the tree was right outside the
:23:24. > :23:27.caravan. I just remember falling to the floor and just screaming. My
:23:28. > :23:32.first thought was, the poor children, that was my first thought.
:23:33. > :23:39.Like, my children, they haven't got a dad any more. And I was just
:23:40. > :23:40.devastated for them. It's just pure devastation. Like nothing I've ever
:23:41. > :23:56.felt before. Sorry... Reading that letter, there was, sort
:23:57. > :23:59.of the part I suppose that resonated the most with me was the part that
:24:00. > :24:02.really drove me forward in supporting other people with mental
:24:03. > :24:06.health problems, where he said that we weren't able to help him, but we
:24:07. > :24:10.could support other people. I wouldn't want anyone to have to read
:24:11. > :24:14.that letter from the person that they love, or read that letter
:24:15. > :24:17.directed to their children. I'm dreading that day that my children
:24:18. > :24:22.are asked to read that letter. I really, you know, I feel like if I
:24:23. > :24:26.could stop somebody else from having to read that letter and having to
:24:27. > :24:30.get their children to read or have their children read that letter,
:24:31. > :24:37.then that would mean, you know, it would mean everything to me. Our
:24:38. > :24:39.thanks to Emma for sharing that very painful experience.
:24:40. > :24:41.I'm joined now by actor and writer Boyd Clack, who has spoken
:24:42. > :24:44.about his own personal experiences of mental health issues.
:24:45. > :24:47.And Richard Bundy, from Welsh mental health charity GOFAL.
:24:48. > :24:53.Good of you both to come in. Richard, for you, what are the main
:24:54. > :24:58.issues that arise from Emma's storage? The huge issues that came
:24:59. > :25:02.up for me with the issue of isolation. I think the peer pressure
:25:03. > :25:06.that men face in the terms of the way they are perceived and expected
:25:07. > :25:14.to deal with problems. I think, inevitably, it draws thinking around
:25:15. > :25:19.stigma and the way people may feel judged, that may present a barrier
:25:20. > :25:23.for people seeking help. I think that talking about mental health
:25:24. > :25:27.problems has become much easier for people. Of course, it's still there.
:25:28. > :25:32.The problem is of course, the thing is, when you are suffering from
:25:33. > :25:39.mental health problems, you have a great feeling of isolation and fear.
:25:40. > :25:44.Isolation, fear, and profound unhappiness. Now, these things are
:25:45. > :25:48.the things that stop people communicating. What kind of
:25:49. > :25:51.framework of help is there at the moment in Welsh terms? And have you
:25:52. > :25:57.seen a noticeable increase in the kind of take-up of people asking for
:25:58. > :26:02.help? Yes, well certainly with the introduction of the Welsh mental
:26:03. > :26:06.health measure in 2010, our primary objective there was to improve
:26:07. > :26:10.people's access to mental health services. And certainly the
:26:11. > :26:14.introduction of primary mental health care teams, working alongside
:26:15. > :26:19.GPs, has opened up a huge level of demand that wasn't being satisfied
:26:20. > :26:24.before. In terms of policy and strategy, I suppose Wales has been
:26:25. > :26:28.ahead of the game in some respects. I gather from the mental health
:26:29. > :26:33.strategy, the measure introduced in 2010, and I think within the context
:26:34. > :26:39.of suicide, there is a suicide and self harm prevention strategy which
:26:40. > :26:43.was introduced in 2015. That is due to be reviewed by Public Health
:26:44. > :26:48.Wales at the midpoint. Are we in a better position, then, to be able to
:26:49. > :26:52.explain why the numbers are rising, and in Welsh terms, because the
:26:53. > :26:55.problem seems to be more acute, what are the factors in that rise which
:26:56. > :27:05.we can identify with some confidence? I think one of the
:27:06. > :27:10.factors with male suicide is that we have a deep-rooted tradition in
:27:11. > :27:13.Wales of masculinity. A sort of active masculinity. It comes from
:27:14. > :27:18.the mining days, where the miners were tough men who work together.
:27:19. > :27:22.They had friendships, they earned money, good money. It was a horrible
:27:23. > :27:27.job but they aren't good money. They could look after their families, go
:27:28. > :27:31.and have a point, go to church. They had an enormous sense of community
:27:32. > :27:36.and friendship. I think with the post-industrial times in Wales, this
:27:37. > :27:43.infrastructure has broken down. And now what we have is sort of a
:27:44. > :27:47.desolation. The churches, abandoned churches at the valleys, the pubs
:27:48. > :27:56.are boarded up. They had tombstones that had a very strong... Affect on
:27:57. > :28:02.the Welsh psyche. And that being taken away, a lot of people feel
:28:03. > :28:09.lost. And you combine that with the largest think contributing towards
:28:10. > :28:12.mental illness and suicide in the valleys, alcohol. We Welsh I think
:28:13. > :28:18.are part of our national characteristics as a people have a
:28:19. > :28:22.sort of morbid introspection. I think that has remained with us. As
:28:23. > :28:27.the landscape has changed, the landscape has come to reflect that
:28:28. > :28:32.mental state more. Alcohol has been mentioned. A morbid introspection
:28:33. > :28:37.has been mentioned, which is acutely may to some areas, those valid
:28:38. > :28:43.reasons -- which is peculiar may be to some Welsh areas. I think alcohol
:28:44. > :28:47.use is a significant factor in suicide. That is a well acknowledged
:28:48. > :28:54.point. Social cohesion is a real issue. And I think the statistics
:28:55. > :28:57.are borne out in terms of, you know, there are higher incidence of
:28:58. > :29:01.suicide and mental ill health in Wales's most deprived areas, in the
:29:02. > :29:06.same weight that there are higher incidences of suicide in their home
:29:07. > :29:07.was communities. There are real things. Thank you both for coming
:29:08. > :29:09.in. If you'd like to get in touch
:29:10. > :29:13.with us about what's been discussed tonight,
:29:14. > :29:15.or anything else, email us Or follow us on social media,
:29:16. > :29:18.where the discussion continues. All of them? All of them.
:29:19. > :29:56.Drafted by all of them. He went on to play for the
:29:57. > :29:59.Buffalo Bills in the Super Bowl and the Cleveland Indians in
:30:00. > :30:03.the World Series.