:00:11. > :00:13.Tonight on The Wales Report: Endless demand and limited resources,
:00:14. > :00:15.we discuss NHS funding with the person making
:00:16. > :00:21.the big decisions, Health Secretary Vaughan Gething.
:00:22. > :00:23.With Brexit on the horizon, how crucial is the role
:00:24. > :00:25.of the Welsh Secretary in helping relations between Wales
:00:26. > :00:30.And, on St David s Day, we ask what does it mean
:00:31. > :00:47.Good evening and welcome to the Wales Report.
:00:48. > :00:49.On tonight's programme, a subject which impacts on the lives
:00:50. > :00:53.of all of us here in Wales, the National Health Service.
:00:54. > :00:56.It's a topic that gets everyone talking, and don't forget
:00:57. > :01:05.Now, the Welsh Government spends more on the NHS than anything else,
:01:06. > :01:08.taking up nearly half of the budget for all public services in Wales.
:01:09. > :01:13.Just how the service is funded with rising demand and finite
:01:14. > :01:16.resources is one of the questions posed in BBC Wales's annual
:01:17. > :01:22.Later I'll be putting the findings to Health Secretary Vaughan Gething.
:01:23. > :01:33.So, what kind of changes to NHS funding are we talking about?
:01:34. > :01:37.Just over four out of ten of those surveyed would pay more income tax.
:01:38. > :01:39.48% were in favour of increasing national insurance.
:01:40. > :01:41.And what about charges within the NHS?
:01:42. > :01:43.Nearly half thought it was unacceptable to charge
:01:44. > :01:54.for services that are currently free, such as prescriptions.
:01:55. > :01:56.But, nearly three quarters thought patients should pay for missed
:01:57. > :02:02.And even more, 79%, would increase charges for visitors from outside
:02:03. > :02:11.And one final question that produced some interesting results.
:02:12. > :02:24.We asked if patients who have diseases or illnesses caused
:02:25. > :02:28.by their lifestyles should be charged for treatment.
:02:29. > :02:29.The results were virtually split down the middle with 42%
:02:30. > :02:33.And by the way, for this poll ICM interviewed 1,002 people in Wales
:02:34. > :02:36.Before we examine those answers with the Health Secretary,
:02:37. > :02:55.we went to a GP practice in Cardiff to get the views of patients there.
:02:56. > :03:03.I've contributed a lot over the years and I think I have done my bit
:03:04. > :03:10.so it depends a lot on how much more taxi would require in order to pay
:03:11. > :03:15.for the increases in the NHS costs. Compared to places like America and
:03:16. > :03:20.places like that this is luxury. We are well blessed and to be honest I
:03:21. > :03:24.am still working and while I am working I don't mind paying a little
:03:25. > :03:28.bit of extra tax. You have people struggling to work as well and if
:03:29. > :03:32.they are paying taxes and it is hard for them and you take more money off
:03:33. > :03:34.the land they are working, is there to push them for mental health and
:03:35. > :03:39.you will need the NHS more because they are struggling with money
:03:40. > :03:42.because everything is so expensive these days. How can you say that the
:03:43. > :03:50.amount you are paying is going to the National health? Can we trust
:03:51. > :03:56.the government? Game there was not going to be a little fun saying that
:03:57. > :04:06.little pilots for the NHS. Sadly we live in a society where there is a
:04:07. > :04:09.lot of rich people who pay no tax and it's not solely taxing the risk
:04:10. > :04:12.but for the good of society they should be made to pay more. A more
:04:13. > :04:23.level playing field in the tax system. All services in the national
:04:24. > :04:31.Health Service should be free at point of delivery. Some people would
:04:32. > :04:34.get ill and die because they could not get treatment. If you have a
:04:35. > :04:38.life-threatening illness and unique treatment then it should be free and
:04:39. > :04:41.everyone should have it but if it is things just for acute problems like
:04:42. > :04:51.pain relief that I think people should buy them. I already do that.
:04:52. > :04:55.That would save the NHS a lot. We have certain items like aspirin on
:04:56. > :04:58.prescription and you can buy them for 90p for a bottle of aspirin and
:04:59. > :05:07.I don't think that should be given on prescription. That is going to
:05:08. > :05:12.the doctor. If I am coming here, don't give me paracetamol on
:05:13. > :05:18.prescription if I don't need them. I have soluble aspirin on my
:05:19. > :05:25.prescription every month! I should stop that but we don't think.
:05:26. > :05:34.They should all have their own insurance. I'm pretty sure that most
:05:35. > :05:40.of the stories are scare stories and there are some people but I think it
:05:41. > :05:45.is a minority problem. There are half -- far bigger problem is not in
:05:46. > :05:53.the National Health Service. There are a lot of people who would not
:05:54. > :06:03.say no if a little girl came in cut a hand in hand stitches but it is
:06:04. > :06:10.the ones who take the Mickey. I think if they had done it more than
:06:11. > :06:13.once then maybe. If it is a historic sort of thing. With the hospital
:06:14. > :06:20.there is such a long waiting list and so many letters we have through
:06:21. > :06:24.it means that we have to chase it up and it is a knock-on effect and it
:06:25. > :06:28.has to work for everybody and then the patient gets better and they
:06:29. > :06:33.don't need it but they should have informed. If you start making people
:06:34. > :06:37.pay for a service but it should be free for the NHS at the point of
:06:38. > :06:40.delivery. If a person regularly books on appointment and doesn't
:06:41. > :06:44.turn up then they should be sent a letter and said that if it happens
:06:45. > :06:49.again you will have to seek services of another GP practice or whatever.
:06:50. > :06:57.Earlier I spoke to Health Secretary, Vaughan Gething.
:06:58. > :07:03.Given the financial pressures on the NHS and the demands, the increasing
:07:04. > :07:07.demands, do you acknowledge that you have to rethink the way it is
:07:08. > :07:10.funded? The overall funding comes from our settlement has a government
:07:11. > :07:15.and there are real challenges on every single part of public service
:07:16. > :07:18.and public funding, we actually think the answer to funding the
:07:19. > :07:22.health service and other public services is for the UK Government to
:07:23. > :07:25.take a different approach on austerity but unless that happens we
:07:26. > :07:31.will face incredibly different choices and you know we have had to
:07:32. > :07:34.reports in the last few years talking about sustainable funding
:07:35. > :07:38.for the health service and we have met the gap that they identified in
:07:39. > :07:41.each of those reports. There is a real commitment here to fund the
:07:42. > :07:52.National Health Service but every alternative model comes with very
:07:53. > :07:54.real challenges and in the discussion for example about
:07:55. > :07:56.charging then there is a lot of evidence that charging affects
:07:57. > :07:58.people from less well off background Zummack gets to be really difficult.
:07:59. > :08:01.You have clearly said to the Westminster government to give us
:08:02. > :08:06.more but what can you do? You could raise income taxes and put 1p on
:08:07. > :08:09.income tax and raise ?180 million a year for the National health
:08:10. > :08:14.service, will you do that? We have already committed that we would not
:08:15. > :08:19.use income tax powers to raise income tax in this assembly term. It
:08:20. > :08:22.would be handy, though, would you like to do it? That is our
:08:23. > :08:26.commitment to the people of Wales and that is something people voted
:08:27. > :08:31.on and took account. The challenge is how to make sure the public
:08:32. > :08:39.services across the UK, including Wales, are properly funded. The
:08:40. > :08:41.Chancellor has an opportunity in the budget to do something serious about
:08:42. > :08:44.it because it is not just the service in Wales that faces these
:08:45. > :08:47.challenges. Let us focus on what you as a Welsh government can do, it is
:08:48. > :08:53.tricky to raise taxes but you heard in the film that people do tend to
:08:54. > :08:57.agree with the hypothesis of taxes specifically for the health service,
:08:58. > :09:05.for example, and you could argue that the bus during Brexit saying
:09:06. > :09:08.?350 million for the National Health Service, for many people that won
:09:09. > :09:11.it. You might tell me it wasn't true or whatever but the idea of raising
:09:12. > :09:17.taxes specifically for the NHS could don't down well in Wales. I don't
:09:18. > :09:20.think responding to the big Brexit lights by trying to break a
:09:21. > :09:24.manifesto pledges the right way at all. The challenge is how do we use
:09:25. > :09:28.the resources we have got and how did they come in from the UK
:09:29. > :09:30.Government at this point in time? We have used our own budget to make
:09:31. > :09:34.significant additional commitments to the health service and we are
:09:35. > :09:37.committed to meeting that gap in the future and that is why we have a
:09:38. > :09:41.real shot of being financially stable now but we are not fully in
:09:42. > :09:46.control of our own destiny and that is why we have to keep on top of
:09:47. > :09:49.what the UK Government will do. Another tool in your box would be
:09:50. > :09:56.charging people from outside the UK, what about that? I am already
:09:57. > :09:59.reviewing charges for our visitors from the UK and we have reciprocal
:10:00. > :10:03.arrangements with other European countries and as long as they work I
:10:04. > :10:07.see no reason to intervene and change those but if people outside
:10:08. > :10:12.the UK and Europe who do not have those, we are looking again at
:10:13. > :10:16.charging arrangements. What kind of charging could there be. Under what
:10:17. > :10:20.circumstances would you like to charge? It is about whether people
:10:21. > :10:29.come here for treatment and whether it is routine or emergency or
:10:30. > :10:31.otherwise. I'm looking at a range of different options and later in the
:10:32. > :10:35.year I would get to make a decision about how charging may or may not
:10:36. > :10:39.look. This is such a marginal area of activity, in terms of the overall
:10:40. > :10:42.NHS budget this is less than 1%. In terms of the future of the health
:10:43. > :10:46.service there is a great headline to be spun here but it doesn't really
:10:47. > :10:50.get to the heart of financial sustainability and the big choice
:10:51. > :10:53.and challenges that we have. It is a great distraction if you don't want
:10:54. > :10:59.to talk about funding public services. In the polls 75% are in
:11:00. > :11:05.favour of charging from beyond the UK, a big thumbs up, so they want to
:11:06. > :11:08.know if you will already do it. We already make charges but it is about
:11:09. > :11:11.the rate of charge would make an hour we recover it but when you talk
:11:12. > :11:13.about the central funding of the health service with the big
:11:14. > :11:17.challenges we face, the actual conversation about charging people
:11:18. > :11:20.from abroad is an absolute distraction and it gets us away from
:11:21. > :11:25.the responsibility of governments around the UK to make choices and
:11:26. > :11:29.actually for a citizen as a user of the health service and the taxpayer
:11:30. > :11:34.to decide what are they really prepared to pay to fund the future
:11:35. > :11:39.of the health service. An opinion you could do is find people who miss
:11:40. > :11:44.appointments. It is a huge problem with 1.2 million appointments missed
:11:45. > :11:47.in hospitals in the past few years and 600,000 GP appointments missed
:11:48. > :11:51.broadly on an annual basis, that is huge. What about fines? There is a
:11:52. > :12:06.lot of inefficiency to work out some of this is about both GPs and
:12:07. > :12:08.hospitals chasing people are more effectively and more efficiently.
:12:09. > :12:10.There is at this point a question about how the citizen uses the
:12:11. > :12:12.service and the number of missed appointments is not acceptable but
:12:13. > :12:14.charging is not something I am persuaded by. Research suggests that
:12:15. > :12:17.charging for appointments missed appointments puts people off
:12:18. > :12:21.treatment, particularly low income groups, and you end up worsening
:12:22. > :12:26.health outcomes and inequalities. Middle income groups don't see the
:12:27. > :12:29.problem of paying for a fine. Surely repeat offender should be penalised
:12:30. > :12:34.in somewhere because people suffer as a result. There is a different
:12:35. > :12:37.conversation to be had there if people are repeat offenders.
:12:38. > :12:41.Sometimes they have different health care and sometimes people are not in
:12:42. > :12:44.the system and in your clip there was the phrase taking the Mickey but
:12:45. > :12:48.there was a challenge about what to do about those people. To deal with
:12:49. > :12:51.those people do you say that everyone is subject to a fine or a
:12:52. > :13:05.charge for an appointment? I don't think that is a large amount of
:13:06. > :13:08.money. To add a system of fines you need to invest in that as well so
:13:09. > :13:13.will you raise more money than you spend on administering the costs? We
:13:14. > :13:16.both know there will be signs -- if I say there will be fines for missed
:13:17. > :13:21.appointments you could then tell me that the system costs more than it
:13:22. > :13:24.provides so there wasn't a simple answer and the big challenge is how
:13:25. > :13:29.much public money goes into the service. These other things around
:13:30. > :13:33.the sign do not get to the central question. These are the tools in
:13:34. > :13:37.your box but I appreciate the big money comes from Westminster and we
:13:38. > :13:40.are just looking at what you can do as Health Secretary here in Wales.
:13:41. > :13:45.Another thing you could do is charge for some of the services that are
:13:46. > :13:47.currently free. A lot of people in Wales say they don't need
:13:48. > :13:50.paracetamol on prescription or aspirin, they are willing to pay 19p
:13:51. > :13:57.or whatever. You could scrap that. If we are talking about scrapping
:13:58. > :14:02.the fee, that is not a simple question. It is not a simple answer
:14:03. > :14:08.to what seems like a simple question. It is about the GPs or any
:14:09. > :14:12.clinician saying is this the right thing for this patient. It is their
:14:13. > :14:21.responsibility to say yes it is or no it is not. That includes things
:14:22. > :14:29.like parcel Mol and then -- paracetamol. What about charging
:14:30. > :14:34.people who lifestyle induced problems like smoking, obesity, what
:14:35. > :14:38.about that? There is some support for this and people say they should
:14:39. > :14:43.pay their way. If you're saying someone with lung cancer who smoked
:14:44. > :14:53.should be charged for their treatment, when we get into real
:14:54. > :15:00.exam ples. But it isn't that simple at all. Part of challenge of
:15:01. > :15:04.lifestyle choice is how we persuade people to make different choices.
:15:05. > :15:08.There is a real health gain to be made here. Am I right in thinking it
:15:09. > :15:13.is up to the Westminster government and there is nothing you can do
:15:14. > :15:16.financially, you will keep going with the money you're given and
:15:17. > :15:19.there is nothing the Welsh Government to get more money and you
:15:20. > :15:27.have the tools in the box, but you have not going to use them. Is that
:15:28. > :15:32.what you're saying? I've said we are looking at charging. The reality
:15:33. > :15:37.with cost charging missed appointments is not simple. That is
:15:38. > :15:42.honesty about what is possible and what will raise real sums for the
:15:43. > :15:46.health service... In three years time that is it, you can do nothing.
:15:47. > :15:49.We are meeting the gap and we are saying we are meeting the gap and we
:15:50. > :15:53.have gone further than the gap they have identified for the next year
:15:54. > :15:58.and there is a lot we can do to make the service for efficient, the
:15:59. > :16:02.reform of out-patient should mean a more effective service so care can
:16:03. > :16:10.be delivered in different way and it should save money to be reinvested.
:16:11. > :16:15.There are things we can do that will deliver greater value. You will
:16:16. > :16:19.balance the books and the NHS will keep on delivering and meet this
:16:20. > :16:23.increasing demand? I expect us to meet the gaps identified by the
:16:24. > :16:28.health foundation. There is a commitment from the Government to do
:16:29. > :16:32.so. The challenge will be if we don't see the tide turned back on
:16:33. > :16:39.austerity, every part of the the health service that face choices
:16:40. > :16:42.that I don't think the public will tolerate. Thank you.
:16:43. > :16:44.After nearly 20 years of devolved Government in Wales,
:16:45. > :16:47.we've seen the relationship between the UK and Welsh
:16:48. > :16:48.administrations range from indifference to verbal warfare
:16:49. > :16:50.and everything in between, with arguments over funding,
:16:51. > :16:53.the NHS and Education to name just a few.
:16:54. > :16:56.The Secretary of State for Wales has played a key role in mediating
:16:57. > :16:58.between the two Governments but, with Brexit approaching,
:16:59. > :17:02.is that role becoming more important than ever before?
:17:03. > :17:05.I'll be chatting to a man whose done the job twice -
:17:06. > :17:07.Lord Paul Murphy - in a moment, but first here s
:17:08. > :17:10.another former Secretary of State, Stephen Crabb MP, with his personal
:17:11. > :17:28.What is it that makes politics such a fascinating subject for
:17:29. > :17:34.biographers and historians. Maybe because it is not just about ideas,
:17:35. > :17:38.at the centre of it are personalities. All shape the course
:17:39. > :17:42.of events. Nowhere is this more true than in the role of Secretary of
:17:43. > :17:46.State for Wales. The days of Secretary of State for Wales
:17:47. > :17:50.wielding serious Executive authority are long gone. The role has been
:17:51. > :17:54.changing since the start of devolution. Which saw the wholesale
:17:55. > :18:03.transfer of power from the Secretary of State and the Whitehall machine
:18:04. > :18:08.to the new devolved Assembly. This left the job of Welsh Secretary with
:18:09. > :18:14.a question mark - what would its useful purpose be? In 2014 David
:18:15. > :18:18.Cameron decided to open the book and look again at the Welsh devolution
:18:19. > :18:23.settlement, following the Scottish independence referendum. This
:18:24. > :18:28.brought the role of Secretary of State back into the foreground to
:18:29. > :18:33.balance how Welsh devolution should progress and forge a consensual
:18:34. > :18:36.position as far as possible. More recently with the challenge of
:18:37. > :18:40.Brexit I would say we are approaching a moment when the role
:18:41. > :18:45.of Secretary of State has never been more important. Nobody should
:18:46. > :18:52.underestimate the significance of change involved in exiting the EU
:18:53. > :19:00.and the need for the Secretary of State to act as a go between for
:19:01. > :19:06.Wales and Whitehall. It has been politically convenient for a measure
:19:07. > :19:12.of competitiveness to be a feature of the relationship between devolved
:19:13. > :19:15.Government and Westminster. Arguments about funding became
:19:16. > :19:21.common, because each side could blame the other. Now we need the
:19:22. > :19:24.leave some of the petty rows and develop a greater sense of shared
:19:25. > :19:29.interest. We are at a moment when we need to go beyond just the rhetoric
:19:30. > :19:34.of respect and actually develop new ways of working that give Wales its
:19:35. > :19:39.best chance of maximising its opportunities and defending its
:19:40. > :19:46.interests. When I was Secretary of State I met the First Minister once
:19:47. > :19:51.a month, which we never cancelled, despite politically testing times. I
:19:52. > :19:55.believe that this set a pat certain that subsequent occupiers of the
:19:56. > :20:01.roles will take forward. If I had advice for them it would be this -
:20:02. > :20:08.be ambitious, and ready to fight Wales' corner and be ready to say no
:20:09. > :20:12.both to Welsh Government and to your own backbenchers to reach
:20:13. > :20:15.compromise. In an age when politics seems more polarised than ever the
:20:16. > :20:19.art of compromise is vital. I'm joined now from our Westminster
:20:20. > :20:22.studio by former Secretary of State for Wales and for Northern Ireland,
:20:23. > :20:33.the Labour peer Paul Murphy. Thank you for joining us. How do you
:20:34. > :20:38.think the role has changed since devolution? I'm not sure it's
:20:39. > :20:42.changed dramatically. Change I suppose because of the way in which
:20:43. > :20:49.devolution itself has changed in Wales. But the role of the Secretary
:20:50. > :20:54.of State was determined right at the beginning. The problem was that
:20:55. > :20:57.other people, particularly here in London, in Whitehall, didn't quite
:20:58. > :21:03.understand why it was that we should have a Secretary of State without
:21:04. > :21:08.anything to run. Hasn't it become more after diplomatic role, the days
:21:09. > :21:16.of wielding serious executive authority are gone when you compare
:21:17. > :21:20.to the power pre-devolution. It was always a diplomatic role post
:21:21. > :21:25.devolution. The Secretary of State for Wales had response for the Welsh
:21:26. > :21:28.office, all that was devolved to the Welsh Assembly and the same applied
:21:29. > :21:33.to Scotland. Not so in Northern Ireland. So the idea of running a
:21:34. > :21:38.Government department and I was Secretary of State for Wales twice,
:21:39. > :21:44.has long since gone. When you were in the job, it was Labour both ends
:21:45. > :21:47.of the M4. Now of course there are different colours and it is a
:21:48. > :21:53.different role, though dealing with Tony Blair one end and Rhodri Morgan
:21:54. > :21:59.play have been tricky as well? I think it is obviously more testing
:22:00. > :22:04.if you have got different political regimes at both ends of the M4, of
:22:05. > :22:11.course it is. But the role is the same and I also think there is a
:22:12. > :22:15.common interest within Wales among Welsh politicians, whatever your
:22:16. > :22:19.politics. We are a small country, we know each other well and whether
:22:20. > :22:24.you're a Conservative Secretary of State or Labour, at the end of the
:22:25. > :22:30.day, you are arguing, debating the issues which you know are going to
:22:31. > :22:35.affect the same people that both the MPs and the AMs represent. I wonder
:22:36. > :22:40.if Stephen Crabb is right saying Brexit has given it a new importance
:22:41. > :22:46.around the cabinet table? He couldn't be more right. I gave it
:22:47. > :22:50.evidence a few weeks ago to the... The constitutional committee in the
:22:51. > :22:55.Assembly. And I believe that as a consequence of the decision to leave
:22:56. > :23:00.the European Union, and the enormous impact that will have upon Wales,
:23:01. > :23:05.that the importance of that relationship between the two
:23:06. > :23:08.governments, which is linked by the position on the role of the
:23:09. > :23:12.Secretary of State, is now much, much more important than it was. It
:23:13. > :23:18.was important before, but it is even more important now. Just finally, in
:23:19. > :23:23.terms of pecking order around the cabinet, you have held several posts
:23:24. > :23:27.there, where does the Welsh Secretary rank? Well it is not a
:23:28. > :23:33.senior position. But it often depends on how long you hold the
:23:34. > :23:38.position. Because what happens is you move around the cabinet table in
:23:39. > :23:43.terms of your length of service. But if you start off as I did as Welsh
:23:44. > :23:47.Secretary, I was low down the pecking order. But that doesn't
:23:48. > :23:52.matter, you still have the same opportunities as the Chancellor or
:23:53. > :23:56.the Home Secretary or whoever it might be in being able to raise
:23:57. > :23:59.issues around that table. Thank you very much.
:24:00. > :24:02.I've still got an hour or so to wish you Happy St
:24:03. > :24:05.David's Day and time to ask what can be a complex
:24:06. > :24:08.question - exactly how Welsh do you feel?
:24:09. > :24:10.In a world that is more interconnected than ever
:24:11. > :24:12.before, with globalisation impacting on all aspects
:24:13. > :24:14.of our lives, what kind of effect is it having on our
:24:15. > :24:20.To investigate, we sent Radio One DJ, Huw
:24:21. > :24:22.Stephens, to speak to some up and coming
:24:23. > :24:23.musicians in Cardiff to find out what Welshness
:24:24. > :24:50.St David's Day, the date to celebrate the great things it means
:24:51. > :24:57.to be Welsh. Some of you do that every day. But now what does it mean
:24:58. > :25:02.to be young and Welsh? Has the Welsh identity changed and if so, how do
:25:03. > :25:06.we make sense of it all. Music is one great way too look at identity,
:25:07. > :25:11.it is a way of holding up a mirror to our society and reflecting our
:25:12. > :25:16.identity back at us. Since I started on hospital radio in Cardiff, I have
:25:17. > :25:22.been watching and listening and promoting the music scene in both
:25:23. > :25:26.languages and what better way to keep your finger on the pulse than
:25:27. > :25:35.by listening to the music made in Wales. I'm not joust u just talking
:25:36. > :25:41.about the male voice choirs. There is synth pop, hard core metal and
:25:42. > :25:48.everything in between. Something I have never predicted is a
:25:49. > :26:04.successful,grime crew from Wales. Grime music is a London version of
:26:05. > :26:09.hip-hop, but The Astroid Boys talk about identity and place and they
:26:10. > :26:18.sound like they're from Cardiff. It is important to be proud of where
:26:19. > :26:21.you're from. So we are happy to express that we are from Wales and
:26:22. > :26:25.show that we are proud of it. But it is important to be proud of the
:26:26. > :26:33.country you live in and very proud to be Welsh. When you go on holiday
:26:34. > :26:38.and your Cardiff accent getting stronger. When we go around the
:26:39. > :26:43.world it is nice to be, this is how we say it. This what is it is like
:26:44. > :26:47.where we are from and when we are in London a lot, to show them the side
:26:48. > :26:53.of Wales they might not know existed. People in London thought as
:26:54. > :27:01.a group of rappers we lived on a farm, because we were Welsh. So it
:27:02. > :27:05.is cool to be able to do what we do and make videos and show people and
:27:06. > :27:13.give them the image of what Cardiff and Welsh life is about. So yes.
:27:14. > :27:22.When people think of Welsh music, they think of male voice choirs and
:27:23. > :27:34.rock bands b s but not necessarily grime. Do you think you're
:27:35. > :27:40.abolishing a stereotype? Yes having urban music in the public eye shows
:27:41. > :27:44.there is people from all walks of life here and it is good to show
:27:45. > :27:52.people that what is is going on here. One thing became clear talking
:27:53. > :27:59.to them that having that Welsh identity is important to them, even
:28:00. > :28:02.in the globalized world of 2017. It gives them a unique outlook that
:28:03. > :28:08.informs their creative process. I'm joined now by
:28:09. > :28:19.journalist and commentator And the poet Claire Putter. That is
:28:20. > :28:25.so different that grime to the Welsh cakes, the daffs that are every
:28:26. > :28:33.where today. It is complex, Welshness? Yes favourite statement
:28:34. > :28:40.on this, Wales singular noun, plural experience. We reflect on ourselves
:28:41. > :28:49.with certain imagery and it is more complicated. Where you grew up
:28:50. > :28:56.shapes your idea of identity and we are a multicultural nation. That
:28:57. > :29:03.could be said about anywhere or there is any something flex about
:29:04. > :29:07.the Welsh identity? Yes it is grounded in language and views
:29:08. > :29:10.whether the Welsh language should be supported and it has been under
:29:11. > :29:14.pressure and it is important that we preserve that. That speaks a lot to
:29:15. > :29:19.our national identity. But when you think about people who don't speak
:29:20. > :29:38.Welsh, how do they express their identity? Is it a unifying force? It
:29:39. > :29:48.be divisive. I went to pant pat Goan ya and was amazed to see that. I'm
:29:49. > :29:54.learning Welsh and there are south Americans and English who are
:29:55. > :29:58.embracing the culture. You embrace the stereotypes sometimes in your
:29:59. > :30:03.writing and you like the daffodils and the rugby, sport, get it right,
:30:04. > :30:09.don't they in making the Welsh identity travel. We saw last year
:30:10. > :30:12.with Welsh success what a great calling card sporting success can
:30:13. > :30:17.be. Particularly football, because it is the global game and you have
:30:18. > :30:22.got multinational companies tweeting in Welsh and the New York Times
:30:23. > :30:28.talking about Wales and I feel if we apply the same passion and obsession
:30:29. > :30:33.and scrutiny to other areas of Welsh like, like how we are governed as we
:30:34. > :30:39.do to sport we would be all right. How do we do that? And export our
:30:40. > :30:45.culture, or are we doing a good job. I think we are doing a good job and
:30:46. > :30:49.that is a strength supporting the arts and if schools you have
:30:50. > :30:58.children who have experienced that and you look at Cardiff Bay, you
:30:59. > :31:03.have the politics, the millennium centre, the film industry and we are
:31:04. > :31:08.doing a good job of supporting arts and showing its diversity and the
:31:09. > :31:14.culture within Wales. If we look at the political picture and the
:31:15. > :31:18.anti-globalisation feeling, a lot of talk of identity politics, is now a
:31:19. > :31:25.good time to promote a national identity. The debate has been thrown
:31:26. > :31:31.open by Brexit. I was shocked by the Wales Brexit revealed, some
:31:32. > :31:37.uncomfortable truths. I thought we were an inclusive, keep a welcome in
:31:38. > :31:42.the hillside nation, but a lot of it was about immigration. Maybe we are
:31:43. > :31:48.not that different, maybe for Wales, see England. Yes we took our cues
:31:49. > :31:53.from the English media and didn't ally yourselves with Scotland or
:31:54. > :31:56.Northern Ireland. I think the political landscape is changing so
:31:57. > :32:02.rapidly and we have to keep up and think, what is our part in this? How
:32:03. > :32:08.do we see ourselves in relation to Europe and Britain and within our
:32:09. > :32:16.own boundaries? Does identity always have to be political? If you look at
:32:17. > :32:19.Scotland and the nationalism force. They don't have the language. It
:32:20. > :32:24.depends what you mean by political. If you talk about changing our
:32:25. > :32:32.curriculum and so we have more of a Welsh focus, we need that. I grew up
:32:33. > :32:38.in the Welsh valleys. We didn't have much input, because of English
:32:39. > :32:45.curriculum of Welsh writers and politicians and history. There will
:32:46. > :32:58.be people who have listened to speeches tonight and Welsh cakes,
:32:59. > :33:04.daffs, is that the future? There is tartan presents and there are pipers
:33:05. > :33:09.and look how Ireland have stuck an Irish pub in every city. We can have
:33:10. > :33:18.fun with how people see us. There is nothing wrong with having a heritage
:33:19. > :33:20.we can be proud of and we are a musical nation. We should enjoy them
:33:21. > :33:30.them. And happy St David's Day. If you'd like to get in touch
:33:31. > :33:35.with us about what s been discussed tonight or anything
:33:36. > :33:37.else, e-mail us at thewalesreport@bbc.co.uk,
:33:38. > :33:38.or follow us on social media where the discussion
:33:39. > :33:41.continues - hashtag