:00:08. > :00:12.Tonight on The Wales Report, we are at Westminster in a turbulent week
:00:13. > :00:16.politics, just six weeks after the election that produced a hung
:00:17. > :00:19.parliament. Trees May and the Conservatives are telling power,
:00:20. > :00:24.just, but what does the outcome mean for the biggest issue facing us all,
:00:25. > :00:31.the Brexit process and its impact on jobs and the economy in Wales? Stay
:00:32. > :00:39.weathers for The Wales Report. -- stay with ours. Good evening. And
:00:40. > :00:43.welcome to Westminster for this edition of The Wales Report. Forget
:00:44. > :00:48.all that talk of strong and stable, this week we are considering the
:00:49. > :00:51.aftermath of the hung parliament and uncertainty that it brings. A
:00:52. > :00:56.minority Conservative Government probably sustained by the Democratic
:00:57. > :01:00.Unionists with the all poor to Brexit pox due to start next week.
:01:01. > :01:06.Tonight we will be considering the challenges for Wales, is public
:01:07. > :01:11.services and other matters as they are defined here in Cardiff Bay. You
:01:12. > :01:15.can get involved and social media. In a moment, I will be talking to
:01:16. > :01:19.the former Conservative Secretary of State, Stephen Crabb. But first my
:01:20. > :01:33.college reminds us how we got to this rather unexpected point.
:01:34. > :01:38.Just before ten o'clock, I was handed the exit poll, and to be
:01:39. > :01:45.honest null others where quite expecting this. There we are,
:01:46. > :01:50.Conservatives the largest party, that is the poll, and we have the
:01:51. > :01:53.detail. What followed as the results came in was ten hours of high
:01:54. > :02:00.political drama. But the impact of that night the last far longer. So
:02:01. > :02:04.what happens next? Six long days on, is it all up for grabs again? And
:02:05. > :02:10.the policies, manifesto commitments and above all Brexit and away we the
:02:11. > :02:15.European Union. I think in many respects some of the discussion
:02:16. > :02:18.around, not icy soft and hard Brexit, but a different model of
:02:19. > :02:23.leaving the EU whilst retaining a foothold in the single market would
:02:24. > :02:27.likely be on the agenda now, and we know that something that Carwyn
:02:28. > :02:31.Jones has articulated clearly in the white paper and has argued for in
:02:32. > :02:35.terms of the best interest of Wales. The downside is we know the balance
:02:36. > :02:38.of power lies more firmly with Northern Ireland, particularly
:02:39. > :02:42.through the DUPed involvement in Government and still with the SNP in
:02:43. > :02:46.Scotland, because despite having lost seats they remain a big group
:02:47. > :02:53.of MPs with a very strong voice in Westminster. Both Labour and Plaid
:02:54. > :02:56.Cymru of any say that the relationship between Wales and
:02:57. > :03:01.Westminster has the change. Last year but we didn't know was what
:03:02. > :03:04.kind of Brexit we wanted. What is quite clear now after this election
:03:05. > :03:12.is that people do not want the kind of hard Brexit that Theresa May was
:03:13. > :03:15.suggesting before last Thursday. Theresa make all the election for a
:03:16. > :03:19.strengthened hand in Brexit. She has come out of the process with a
:03:20. > :03:23.weakened hand from her perspective. But it does mean now that Wales has
:03:24. > :03:28.an opportunity to make sure that our voice is heard and on the agenda, so
:03:29. > :03:31.Plaid Cymru wants to see a four nation 's cross-party approach to
:03:32. > :03:35.Brexit negotiations and we would like to see a delay in the beginning
:03:36. > :03:42.of these negotiations so that all parties can have an input. Sony
:03:43. > :03:47.pick-up is my daughter is at the helm, but strong and stable is
:03:48. > :03:51.unlikely to be one of Theresa make parred races after that campaign.
:03:52. > :03:55.But her critics accusing her of trying to form her very own
:03:56. > :04:00.coalition of chaos. The Conservatives in Wales are calling
:04:01. > :04:03.for change. When we look at the results, we can be proud of what we
:04:04. > :04:11.achieved in the overall share of the vote. But sadly no prizes for coming
:04:12. > :04:14.second in the selection and we lost three excellent parliamentarians and
:04:15. > :04:19.our candidates in our targets is well unfortunately not winning.
:04:20. > :04:23.Despite getting swings of 12%. I personally believe in the second
:04:24. > :04:27.decade of the 21st century we need a more distinct Welsh brand that can
:04:28. > :04:31.promote Web principles and values while using the strength of the
:04:32. > :04:35.United Kingdom as a springboard into elections and well. One thing we
:04:36. > :04:40.have learned of the past year is never perfect, expect the
:04:41. > :04:43.unexpected. But it is there to protect one thing. With a minority
:04:44. > :04:48.Government, Brexit, potential leadership challenges and unforeseen
:04:49. > :05:02.events, this Government is in for a bumpy ride.
:05:03. > :05:08.I am joined now by the former city of state for Wales am a former
:05:09. > :05:12.Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, Stephen Crabb. By find
:05:13. > :05:15.joining us. What went wrong with Conservative campaign? With the
:05:16. > :05:18.benefit of hindsight, there was a lot wrong with the campaign. Some of
:05:19. > :05:22.those things I personally highlighted during it with the party
:05:23. > :05:26.chairman. But other things as well, like the impact of the social media
:05:27. > :05:30.campaign which was really something we were not prepared for as a party,
:05:31. > :05:34.the impact it had with younger voters, clearly with the benefit of
:05:35. > :05:39.eyesight we need to do some analysis and understand how that is changing
:05:40. > :05:42.politics and. Does Andrew Hartley Davies have a point that the
:05:43. > :05:47.Conservative Party in Wales does not have the kind of specific clearly
:05:48. > :05:50.defined Welsh identity that it needs? I disagree with Andrew on
:05:51. > :05:54.that. Two years ago we had an election when the best result in
:05:55. > :05:57.Wales for Welsh Conservatives since 1983. We had that distinct Welsh
:05:58. > :06:03.voice and fought a very unified campaign between Wales and the UK,
:06:04. > :06:06.and we did very well as a result. We don't need to pick over everything
:06:07. > :06:09.that went wrong, but they were problems with the Bell's campaign,
:06:10. > :06:12.the slight disagreement at times with the Secretary of State and the
:06:13. > :06:16.leader of the worst Conservatives in the Assembly, that did not help.
:06:17. > :06:22.Overall the fact is it worked against as in Wales as the and the
:06:23. > :06:26.UK. We do not see the Labour surge coming. We did it we chat with
:06:27. > :06:29.attractive policies for younger working families, particularly
:06:30. > :06:33.working families who have not seen a real wage increase for maybe eight
:06:34. > :06:38.or nine years. That is where we need to look at, not the issues of
:06:39. > :06:43.cultural identity. Having Barwell lost his seat, he is not Theresa
:06:44. > :06:46.Mayed chief of staff. He said on Thursday night before he was
:06:47. > :06:53.appointed to this new post. Teachers are coming up and saying that we're
:06:54. > :06:56.not realising the position we been, public services, you are not given
:06:57. > :07:04.any kind of message that I want to hear. Was that you're experiencing
:07:05. > :07:07.any part of Wales. Two days before polling day on the Tuesday, in
:07:08. > :07:12.Milford Haven, a woman I spoke to Ronnie Dawson who was a nurse told
:07:13. > :07:16.the she liked me and did a great job, and she said she could not vote
:07:17. > :07:20.for me, and I said why not, she said because she cut to the nursing
:07:21. > :07:22.bursaries. We really did you how a more closely to the needs of the
:07:23. > :07:28.public sector in Wales and across the UK and clearly the seven years
:07:29. > :07:31.of wage restraint has kept a limit on wage growth for people in the
:07:32. > :07:35.public sector, we need to be looking at that. It is about time people
:07:36. > :07:39.across different sectors had a wage increase. Based on her track record,
:07:40. > :07:43.do you think the Prime Minister is the right person to listen? Can she
:07:44. > :07:47.listen? But she sure that she is able? One of my frustrated during
:07:48. > :07:51.the campaign was that I didn't feel the country was seeing the full true
:07:52. > :07:56.Theresa May. All the reasons why in the party flopped around her as the
:07:57. > :08:01.new leader, one country responded excitedly well to her when she
:08:02. > :08:06.became Prime Minister a year ago, we lost some of that flavoured chewing
:08:07. > :08:08.the election campaign. I wonder that the campaign buttons are up and we
:08:09. > :08:11.didn't get to see that range of qualities and skills which I think
:08:12. > :08:15.mean that she is the very best person to lead the Government, take
:08:16. > :08:19.us forward and for all of the challenges ahead with not having an
:08:20. > :08:22.overall majority, I still think that she had got every possible chance of
:08:23. > :08:28.taking us the full distance, but it will be bumpy. Not least if she does
:08:29. > :08:32.from a deal with the DUP, we have had people like John Major who is
:08:33. > :08:36.very experienced in Northern Ireland saying he has great concerns about
:08:37. > :08:40.this. Do you share those concerns with Mac there are real concerns. We
:08:41. > :08:46.are in a difficult period with Northern Irish politics. On top of
:08:47. > :08:49.that, in the challenge with Brexit and the Irish question, so clearly
:08:50. > :08:52.there are concerns that need to get Ed, but equally there are
:08:53. > :08:55.politicians like Lord Trimble who is at the very heart of the peace
:08:56. > :09:00.process who has said that a deal with the DUP is not necessarily a
:09:01. > :09:05.negative barrier to further progress in not an island. We should not get
:09:06. > :09:09.too hung up. If Labour Party had fallen short of being the overall
:09:10. > :09:16.majority, they would be talking up to the DUP. They have done in the
:09:17. > :09:19.past. Previously believers have restarted Ulster Unionist. That is
:09:20. > :09:22.what you do when you're out in a hung parliament situation. Britain
:09:23. > :09:28.needs a Government. I don't think there is any appetite for an
:09:29. > :09:32.election straightaway. What is the upturn of? You get on with the
:09:33. > :09:35.business of Government. The request of the peace process in Northern
:09:36. > :09:41.Ireland, John Major referred to it. The other question is the attitude
:09:42. > :09:46.of the DUP on some social issues in terms of women's rights, very
:09:47. > :09:51.serious issues which people have what many years to achieve. I do
:09:52. > :09:57.come trouble with that relationship? And comfortably the kind of values
:09:58. > :10:01.that the DUP who -- DUP espouses? If there is any question on the social
:10:02. > :10:04.issues on the table for discussion, as part of any governing
:10:05. > :10:09.arrangement, myself and a great many others would be saying no, close
:10:10. > :10:12.this off, this is not healthy for the national interest. We don't want
:10:13. > :10:17.to be doing that. But they have got their different values, we need to
:10:18. > :10:22.respect that, there is a different political culture in Northern
:10:23. > :10:25.Ireland. The Labour Party in Northern Ireland held an identical
:10:26. > :10:28.view on abortion and the DUP, so we have got to respect the fact that
:10:29. > :10:33.Northern Ireland is a bit different. But you say that would affect
:10:34. > :10:39.Theresa May's thinking? We're not putting that up for discussion. We
:10:40. > :10:42.are strengthening equalities legislation. If there is any with
:10:43. > :10:47.that that will be revisited as part of the rate of the DUP, myself and a
:10:48. > :10:52.lot of others would be saying, Theresa, commerce. That is a very
:10:53. > :10:56.clear message. This talk about the other big issue that overshadowed
:10:57. > :11:00.everything, Brexit. Talks due to start the week. Very clear noises
:11:01. > :11:07.coming from the Treasury that the Chancellor would like to see a
:11:08. > :11:12.refocusing on the economy, jobs, a different kind of Brexit outcome to
:11:13. > :11:16.that was envisaged by many of your colleagues before. Can you give is
:11:17. > :11:19.your sense of where that pose beginning and should people be
:11:20. > :11:25.reassured by the fact that there are people speaking out about
:11:26. > :11:28.cross-party consensus? Be different place? We are in a different place,
:11:29. > :11:32.and that is partly because of the result of the election. The
:11:33. > :11:35.Conservative Party on its own is not the vehicle to deliver Brexit. We
:11:36. > :11:41.need to reach out and work with other parties. When it comes to
:11:42. > :11:46.Brexit, not just relying on DUP. I personally believe and leave others
:11:47. > :11:49.believe that we need to be reaching out across the divide in the chamber
:11:50. > :11:57.to the official opposition and trying to forge as much consensus as
:11:58. > :12:00.possible. What I would like to see as you've heard it from William
:12:01. > :12:05.Hague and others that that consensus can come together around a vision of
:12:06. > :12:09.Brexit that puts jobs and economic security at its heart. Rather than
:12:10. > :12:13.discussions for example about the need to have the hardest possible
:12:14. > :12:19.line on immigration control, for example. How would that consensus be
:12:20. > :12:23.achieved in a special commission, a special committee? How do you arrive
:12:24. > :12:28.at that consensus? There are different options. William Hague has
:12:29. > :12:32.put up forward one idea of having a commission that brings in business
:12:33. > :12:37.leaders, trade unions. I think that is worth looking at. I don't like
:12:38. > :12:41.the word commission, but clearly the essence of that must be right. There
:12:42. > :12:47.must be a way that we can forge more national unity around Brexit. You
:12:48. > :12:50.are very clear about that direction. And I just picked you up on the
:12:51. > :12:56.freedom of movement, immigration question? Lots of your colleagues at
:12:57. > :13:03.had been very clear and said the top priority is still to control freedom
:13:04. > :13:08.of movement, edit, immigration is the top concern for them. It isn't
:13:09. > :13:14.for you? I speak very personally. I not somebody who lies awake at night
:13:15. > :13:18.worrying about the overall levels of immigration into this country. If
:13:19. > :13:23.you look at the population of Britain, it is changing and we need
:13:24. > :13:26.more workers coming in, not just skills but right across every
:13:27. > :13:31.business sector. I do recognise that freedom of movement in its current
:13:32. > :13:34.form, where Britain effectively has no ability to run its own
:13:35. > :13:38.immigration policy, that will need to change. But what I would be
:13:39. > :13:43.saying to colleagues in Government as let's not get hung up on the
:13:44. > :13:45.purity of that issue. If it means we're going to sacrifice our
:13:46. > :13:49.business competitiveness and create more jobs and our economy. That is
:13:50. > :13:53.the most important thing for me. Wales needs more jobs and we need to
:13:54. > :13:54.become a more prosperous nation. Let's not do things that and
:13:55. > :14:04.economic terms. A final indication on the shape of
:14:05. > :14:09.the deal. Quite a view of your colleagues are saying, this notion
:14:10. > :14:14.of being part of the customs union, if there is more flexibility of our
:14:15. > :14:18.freedom of movement, might offer a compromise which most people could
:14:19. > :14:24.come around and could agree about. Does that make sense to you? Is that
:14:25. > :14:28.the kind of every other could attract majority support? That is
:14:29. > :14:36.the kind of arrangement that could be looked at. It could be an interim
:14:37. > :14:42.arrangement. Perhaps a longer interim arrangement. Very long. It
:14:43. > :14:48.could be amended in your sticker. That seems to be a pragmatic resting
:14:49. > :14:53.place for the moment. That's not leaving the EU properly, some would
:14:54. > :15:00.say. In legal terms, it is leaving the EU. It provides us with a
:15:01. > :15:04.sensible kind of staging post on the road to Brexit. Remember the
:15:05. > :15:11.discussions around devolution in the last 20 years. People say it's a
:15:12. > :15:16.process, not an event. We need to think about Brexit in the same
:15:17. > :15:21.terms. Good to talk to you. Thank you very much. By common consent,
:15:22. > :15:29.the campaign fought by Labour took the Conservatives by surprise if
:15:30. > :15:35.it's short messaging and ability to give voters. The campaign was led by
:15:36. > :15:39.the First Minister Carwyn Jones for Labour. The fact we had a good
:15:40. > :15:45.manifesto, good Welsh Labour manifesto. We listen to people and
:15:46. > :15:50.campaigned hard. Jeremy Corbyn worked hard. Tremendous energy. He
:15:51. > :15:55.listened to people and spoke to people. Thirdly, Theresa May's
:15:56. > :16:04.failure. She booked the campaign from personality and that failed.
:16:05. > :16:08.Where next for Welsh Labour? Labour across the UK, also. Joining me is
:16:09. > :16:13.the former Secretary of State for Wales and former secretary of state
:16:14. > :16:17.for Ireland. Did you get a Jeremy Corbyn wrong? Did you underestimate
:16:18. > :16:20.him? Yes, I didn't think the results
:16:21. > :16:28.would be anything like as good as it was. Who didn't get the -- you
:16:29. > :16:32.didn't get this impression from the doorstep. Labour voters saying they
:16:33. > :16:39.would not vote for him. All the Crosswell. -- all Crosswell 's men.
:16:40. > :16:44.You have to hand it. He kept going and had a clarity of message that
:16:45. > :16:49.gave hope to people, not just young people, that's been evident. People
:16:50. > :16:57.voting where they've never voted before. Also, we won the 30-44 year
:16:58. > :17:03.age group are massively. What was that don't do? Friends worried about
:17:04. > :17:09.their children. Not just massive shouldn't get. -- pervert is
:17:10. > :17:15.worried. Lack of decent opportunities, lack of decent
:17:16. > :17:22.housing and job opportunities. -- parents are worried. There was no
:17:23. > :17:28.sense of hope and change. These apologies they have been -- these
:17:29. > :17:31.policies they have been presumed to work. Lots of your colleagues said
:17:32. > :17:36.that this campaign has nothing to do with Jeremy Corbyn and all to do
:17:37. > :17:45.with Carwyn Jones and Welsh Labour. The result is down to Jeremy carbon
:17:46. > :17:55.-- scratch bag or Carwyn Jones. The Welsh Labour brand that Karen Jones
:17:56. > :18:01.and his colleagues have cemented in Wales, not too bad, not good but not
:18:02. > :18:07.as bad as might been expected, there is a distinct Welsh Labour brand
:18:08. > :18:13.that is different from Scottish Labour. That is a credit to Carwyn.
:18:14. > :18:20.There was a Jeremy Corbyn effect. That's mobilised the groups and at
:18:21. > :18:24.you enthusiasm. The question is that the Tories did pretty well and well.
:18:25. > :18:29.They lost seats to us but their share of the vote was very high. In
:18:30. > :18:37.Neath, 9004. That's enormous, historically. -- 9000 bouts. We
:18:38. > :18:46.can't be complacent about the next stage. Winning the centre ground,
:18:47. > :18:51.especially in England. We held up in the sure seats under Tony Blair. We
:18:52. > :18:56.have to be able to Windows back. -- we held Pembrokeshire seats. Lots of
:18:57. > :19:02.critical things have been said by Labour people, not least in Welsh
:19:03. > :19:10.Labour, Abbott Jeremy Corbyn. Can we believe now that people say they are
:19:11. > :19:16.behind him. Should people take this at face value? Jeremy has confounded
:19:17. > :19:23.everybody. Including, I suspect, himself. I don't think they expected
:19:24. > :19:27.this result. I know they didn't. Many of his advisers. He did
:19:28. > :19:33.confound everybody, including myself. You have to hand it to him
:19:34. > :19:39.on that and well behind you. I hope there will be a mode of two-way
:19:40. > :19:46.coming together in the body. He and his colleagues around eyes, John
:19:47. > :19:50.McDonnell, will openly embrace those that have been critical. Those who
:19:51. > :19:53.have been critical have not done it for nothing, they had fundamental
:19:54. > :19:59.concerns about what they heard on the doorstep from Labour photos.
:20:00. > :20:07.They are on the opposition hung bench. There are no talks with the
:20:08. > :20:13.DUP. This is a part of the world you know very well. -- there are talks
:20:14. > :20:17.with the GP. You have the same concerns as John Major? He's
:20:18. > :20:22.absolutely right. The interview he gave to the BBC was masterly. He put
:20:23. > :20:28.his finger on all the key points. If you want to be an honest broker,
:20:29. > :20:36.I've been that honest broker, I had to perform a bond of trust with Ian
:20:37. > :20:40.Paisley and Gerry Adams. They never talked each other. They have to
:20:41. > :20:46.trust me that what the other promises in exchange with the other
:20:47. > :20:51.promises, that was true. They had to trust me. If you are dependent for
:20:52. > :20:56.your life as the Prime Minister,, which Theresa May will be if she
:20:57. > :21:02.does this deal, Andrew Secretary of State, how will they feel, the other
:21:03. > :21:08.parties, not just Sinn Fein but the other parties have expressed the
:21:09. > :21:11.same criticism, but at stake is something much more reporting than
:21:12. > :21:15.the survival of a Conservative Government. It is peace in Northern
:21:16. > :21:20.Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement. It's an incredible thing
:21:21. > :21:30.to say. To say that ineffective Theresa May pursues this strategy
:21:31. > :21:33.the prospect of restoring peace -- maintaining peace, the prospect
:21:34. > :21:38.close to zero. Sinn Fein may take the view that if this deal is done,
:21:39. > :21:44.better for them to get into Stormont, even on a lower threshold,
:21:45. > :21:54.and avoid directive. Direct rule, the kind I had dented when I stepped
:21:55. > :22:03.down having negotiated the deal with McGuinness and Paisley coming into
:22:04. > :22:07.power, with the DUP: the shots and keeping the Conservative Government
:22:08. > :22:13.afloat is not an attractive Government. I'm not saying it will
:22:14. > :22:16.sabotage Stormont but it makes the whole process immeasurably
:22:17. > :22:25.difficult. There is one other elephant in the. The border. One
:22:26. > :22:31.positive thing is it will encourage a soft water. That's what DUP one.
:22:32. > :22:34.That would mean Theresa May will be pushed even further to do a
:22:35. > :22:39.cross-party agreement and have a soft departure from the European
:22:40. > :22:46.Union rather than a hard departure and follow current Joneses -- Carwyn
:22:47. > :22:54.Jones's leads in staying in the single market. What is the prospect
:22:55. > :23:01.of a Government made up of the Conservative and the GP lasting?
:23:02. > :23:05.What is your sense of this stability that is likely facing the challenges
:23:06. > :23:11.Brexit? The pressure on the Government is going to be immense.
:23:12. > :23:16.Can it last? You need to win a two thirds majority to call an election,
:23:17. > :23:20.and this Theresa May or her successor decides they want to go
:23:21. > :23:28.for Wand. -- unless Theresa May. On balance, although we are in
:23:29. > :23:32.uncharted retreat, I've never encountered it before, on balance,
:23:33. > :23:39.they will stick at. -- in unchartered territory. We don't have
:23:40. > :23:44.a majority, even with the other parties. That's what we need under
:23:45. > :23:48.the fixed to Parliament legislation to get an election. It's going to be
:23:49. > :23:52.very volatile. The Government will find it difficult to get legislation
:23:53. > :23:58.through both houses. Including Brexit legislation. Including Brexit
:23:59. > :24:03.legislation. Unless they are conciliatory. A lot of their
:24:04. > :24:12.policies, elderly care policy, which is definitely -- desperately we --
:24:13. > :24:18.needed. These things are reported. I don't think they will happen. It
:24:19. > :24:23.will be difficult and unstable. I don't know what the effect is on the
:24:24. > :24:31.economy. Could be negative. One area of assessors is the powerful role of
:24:32. > :24:43.social media. One of the factors that is attributed to Labour's wins
:24:44. > :24:47.is social media. Social media expert Herman Reynolds has taken a look at
:24:48. > :24:53.the role that on the networking has played in shaping the result of this
:24:54. > :24:58.election. -- Helen Reynolds. We've been talking since at least
:24:59. > :25:02.2010 about the social media election. When young people start to
:25:03. > :25:08.use on their networks to make their voices heard and change a visit. It
:25:09. > :25:13.doesn't happen in 2010 or even 2015 but last week it started to happen
:25:14. > :25:17.big-time. Young people actively campaigns online and turned out to
:25:18. > :25:23.vote in huge numbers. They produced a result nobody expected. So why now
:25:24. > :25:28.and what is it mean? Firstly, citizens and especially young people
:25:29. > :25:33.have learned to use social media to unite and campaign. In the past,
:25:34. > :25:37.people used social media to talk to friends and consume news in a
:25:38. > :25:42.passive kind of way. Second, if social media was the winner in this
:25:43. > :25:47.election, newspapers were the losers. They have fewer readers and
:25:48. > :25:52.less relevance to younger voters. In the past, newspapers could define
:25:53. > :25:56.the issues people talk about and select preferences. Now, it seems
:25:57. > :26:01.they are losing their grip on the electorate and social media is
:26:02. > :26:06.filling the void. Thirdly, you can do things with social media you
:26:07. > :26:13.can't do with traditional media. You can be direct, funny, and motion.
:26:14. > :26:17.That's more of emotional content gets full out in traditional media.
:26:18. > :26:27.While leaving the Conservative campaign on it back foot, why did
:26:28. > :26:34.the Labour campaign use it? Most of the campaigns and social media by
:26:35. > :26:38.the Conservative Party was about to mobilising Labour politicians rather
:26:39. > :26:47.than mobilising support. By contrast, Labour tried to get people
:26:48. > :26:52.and involved and getting people to vote. Jeremy Corbyn was everywhere.
:26:53. > :26:56.He was chatting to the rapper JME. He was supported by modern
:26:57. > :27:03.celebrities online. By contrast, Theresa May did a additional media
:27:04. > :27:13.broadcaster media session. She looked particularly uncomfortable
:27:14. > :27:17.when Jeremy Corbyn crashed it. It was often inspiring and sometimes it
:27:18. > :27:22.was moving, the content that was shed. When people have an emotional
:27:23. > :27:30.response to the guide material, they are more likely to share that. -- to
:27:31. > :27:34.the material. It is more a organic when you see something that has been
:27:35. > :27:40.shared by a friend. Whichever way you should I whichever way you slice
:27:41. > :27:46.it, the social media genie is out of the bottle. Politicians are going to
:27:47. > :27:52.have to start taking this more seriously. I am joined by the
:27:53. > :27:59.Guardian social media editor. Also associate editor of the mirror. Was
:28:00. > :28:02.it really a sharp edge for Labour in this campaign? The difference
:28:03. > :28:07.between Labour and the Conservatives is that Labour managed to capture
:28:08. > :28:10.the years in the way that the Conservatives did not. There was an
:28:11. > :28:16.amazing to read that pointed out the Conservatives spent all the money on
:28:17. > :28:23.Facebook advertising but Labour were getting memes made for them for
:28:24. > :28:27.free. All the smart, young exciting teams and older young adults were
:28:28. > :28:34.making all this stuff for free for Labour. Maybe people want to say
:28:35. > :28:38.that this was brilliant strategic thinking by Labour, this is perhaps
:28:39. > :28:44.wrong, perhaps they were just benefiting from stuff made for them
:28:45. > :28:48.for free. Labour also cottoned on to it very quickly and encouraged it in
:28:49. > :28:53.a way that I think the Conservatives would struggle to because I think
:28:54. > :29:00.the Conservatives are seen as and older part. Labour this time did it
:29:01. > :29:06.as a strategy. They knew two things would possibly go and a favour. One
:29:07. > :29:10.is the broadcasters coming in, equal representation, et al. People could
:29:11. > :29:19.see Jeremy Corbyn uncut rather than seeing him in the odd news item. It
:29:20. > :29:22.was part of their deliberate strategy from the beginning. Whilst
:29:23. > :29:30.the Conservatives were seen to be dad dancing. Labour used to people
:29:31. > :29:31.who are on it all the time. There was nothing forced about it. It came
:29:32. > :29:41.across that way. An old-fashioned terracing, you
:29:42. > :29:45.knock the door and you don't know if the person is very different for
:29:46. > :29:48.you. There is an effort to convert. Does social media activity convert
:29:49. > :29:53.doesn't just cemented loyalties that already exist? And the Conservatives
:29:54. > :29:56.tried to do it negatively to scare people off and Jeremy Corbyn,
:29:57. > :30:01.painting him as a terrorist sympathiser when he was not a
:30:02. > :30:04.pacifist, it went both ways. Labour was far more positive, and it was to
:30:05. > :30:07.try and enthuse and get people to go out and vote, and vote, added
:30:08. > :30:12.illegally targeted young people, who in the past had not voted, Jeremy
:30:13. > :30:17.Corbyn said from the beginning there were going to get them developed. I
:30:18. > :30:22.didn't believe him but he achieved it. He spoke to them on their level,
:30:23. > :30:24.that is a big part of it. There is a condition with politicians to not
:30:25. > :30:30.take young people seriously because they do not vote. This time Jeremy
:30:31. > :30:34.Corbyn was like, no, I going to listen to them. He did that to
:30:35. > :30:41.things like, I thought the unilateral big issue collaboration
:30:42. > :30:45.was spectacular, they had the Big Issue which is a very well-respected
:30:46. > :30:49.magazine across the country, and Facebook page which is not as
:30:50. > :30:54.respected, but has a huge UK following. That was genius, in my
:30:55. > :30:59.mind. We had the best of both worlds. Was there an unfair
:31:00. > :31:03.reference to the Theresa May experience with Robert testing? That
:31:04. > :31:07.was an attempt on a very big platform, she was taking questions
:31:08. > :31:15.which were coming through from people live, that was part of the
:31:16. > :31:20.social media strategy, and that was not a attack. It was slightly unfair
:31:21. > :31:24.and we don't want to be in an avalanche position where we have one
:31:25. > :31:27.form of campaign and then all campaigning changes. You are on
:31:28. > :31:31.Facebook, people will watch it, and it was a very big viewing figures
:31:32. > :31:35.for that. But nevertheless if you can get celebrities involved, that
:31:36. > :31:40.helps. If you can get grime artists and so one, you will go to another
:31:41. > :31:45.area. That was incredible, the whole grime for Corbyn thing, it was a
:31:46. > :31:50.kind of movement that is such a joy to see in politics and especially
:31:51. > :31:55.from young people. The press reference, we saw an incredible
:31:56. > :31:59.aggressive campaign from the Mail and the Son against Jeremy Corbyn.
:32:00. > :32:04.When you look at the results, is it therefore too soon for us to save
:32:05. > :32:08.big conclusions about whether the press in some forms has had its day
:32:09. > :32:12.in terms of swinging millions of votes? I don't think so but it was a
:32:13. > :32:18.huge defeat for the tabloids who threw the kitchen sink to Jeremy
:32:19. > :32:22.Corbyn, smear after smear, Theresa May was praised as the great leader.
:32:23. > :32:28.They did not get a result they expected. Newspapers are still very
:32:29. > :32:31.powerful, broadcasting is still very powerful, but people now can go for
:32:32. > :32:35.the information they want, where they want, there are far more
:32:36. > :32:39.voices, and I think that is a good thing in a democracy. Even the fact
:32:40. > :32:44.that candidates and MPs themselves can have a website, beyond Facebook
:32:45. > :32:48.and Twitter, you make it directly, rather than have to go through the
:32:49. > :32:53.prism of a distorting paper or TV, radio, and would not write the media
:32:54. > :32:57.off, but we in papers except now that people get their information
:32:58. > :33:01.elsewhere. The crippled thing in Wales is when you think of the fact
:33:02. > :33:05.that people have had far less of a choice in terms of the Welsh folk is
:33:06. > :33:09.the media and they can use, the social media prevention as a
:33:10. > :33:16.completely new dimension. This is what I am hoping will come out of
:33:17. > :33:20.this new media age, they will be more stuff for Welsh people online
:33:21. > :33:26.at least. We have not got as vibrant a scene Scotland at the moment, but
:33:27. > :33:30.there is fertile ground and this has been proven and Wales is
:33:31. > :33:36.traditionally, a labour heartland, there is no reason why this kind of
:33:37. > :33:38.energy fork Jeremy Corbyn could not translate into some kind of energy
:33:39. > :33:43.for Welsh media. That might be a bridge too far, I don't know. You
:33:44. > :33:46.make a point about Welsh Labour, in some of its traditional heartlands
:33:47. > :33:53.in Wales, but all Welsh parties really could be looking at this kind
:33:54. > :33:57.of provision in a completely new way. The final point to you both,
:33:58. > :34:00.will it change the nature of campaigning? Laissez beget another
:34:01. > :34:05.election within the next year, if that happens, I'll be likely to see
:34:06. > :34:09.another step change in the way people use social media in
:34:10. > :34:12.campaigning turns? I think we will. The other parties will look where it
:34:13. > :34:17.worked for Labour, where it worked for Donald Trump in the states,
:34:18. > :34:22.almost worked for the SNP in Scotland in 2014 in that referendum.
:34:23. > :34:26.It won't mean that you don't have to go knocking on doors and put
:34:27. > :34:34.leaflets out, you must only meetings and be on TV and radio and get stuck
:34:35. > :34:38.in papers, but social media, the opportunities are absolutely
:34:39. > :34:42.endless. Final thought. I think it will change, but be interesting to
:34:43. > :34:45.see if it will go well for the Conservatives in the future may be
:34:46. > :34:48.for any other party that is traditionally seen as a little bit
:34:49. > :34:52.older. That is the thing that I think is key, a stepping Labour has
:34:53. > :34:57.that young bass and they have that advantage, the Disney to use it.
:34:58. > :35:02.Thank you both very much. That is all we have time for tonight. You
:35:03. > :35:07.can get in touch with ours to discuss anything we have discussed,
:35:08. > :35:10.go to our website. You can also follow us on social media where the
:35:11. > :35:16.discussion continues. We will be back next week. Thank you for
:35:17. > :35:25.watching. Have a very good bike. -- good night.