:00:09. > :00:12.Tonight, a fortune are spent by public bodies in Wales buying goods
:00:12. > :00:16.and services, but our Welsh companies getting their fair share
:00:16. > :00:20.of the business? Local elections return to Anglesey
:00:20. > :00:23.after one of the bigger scandals in local government, but are the
:00:23. > :00:28.problems resort? His it is a national disgrace,
:00:28. > :00:33.really, isn't it? And do as the Swansea measles
:00:33. > :00:43.epidemic continues to spread, more questions about the role of the
:00:43. > :00:45.
:00:45. > :00:50.Good evening. Welcome to the Wales Report, where the examine the
:00:50. > :00:54.issues affecting the lives in Wales and question those making the all
:00:54. > :00:58.important decisions. This would we are focusing on spending, because
:00:58. > :01:03.every year more than �4 billion of Welsh taxpayers money is spent on
:01:03. > :01:07.securing goods and services from private companies to provide public
:01:07. > :01:12.services throughout Wales, but half the money import is committed to
:01:12. > :01:18.companies outside Wales, not just England and but further afield.
:01:18. > :01:27.Some large companies feel -- some Welsh companies feel they are not
:01:27. > :01:30.getting their share. We ask whether a company's with contracts for
:01:30. > :01:38.public bodies in Wales should be awarded to Welsh companies
:01:38. > :01:45.generally? They buy school dinners, hospital
:01:45. > :01:48.equipment, road building and construction projects. Every year,
:01:48. > :01:55.public bodies like the Welsh Government, local councils and
:01:55. > :02:01.health authorities spent some �4.3 billion of your money on goods and
:02:01. > :02:11.services. Those lucrative contracts can have an enormous impact on
:02:11. > :02:13.
:02:13. > :02:21.communities in Wales. Many authorities -- but nearly �2
:02:21. > :02:27.billion of that money crosses the border, to England and beyond. It
:02:27. > :02:31.is exasperating for business owners like Neil Phillips. His company
:02:31. > :02:36.supplies play equipment for councils in England, but he has not
:02:36. > :02:42.yet won contracts in Wales. When you are competing on quality and
:02:42. > :02:46.price and both are the same, you question why the work was put out
:02:46. > :02:51.to a non Welsh company when all of the benefits that you see from
:02:51. > :02:56.using Welsh business and keeping Welsh many within the Welsh economy
:02:56. > :03:01.are so great. You work hard as a business, you try and build a
:03:01. > :03:10.business up and Wales, you employ a Welsh people to work on Welsh
:03:10. > :03:14.projects. It does not happen. It is very, very, very frustrating.
:03:14. > :03:22.Many of the large firms we spoke to found the process cumbersome and
:03:22. > :03:27.complicated. -- many of the Welsh firms. Price, value for money,
:03:27. > :03:30.quality, delivery and other factors have to be looked at. As part of
:03:30. > :03:35.the decision-making process, the impact on jobs and the local
:03:35. > :03:39.economy can be considered. Last year the Welsh Government issued a
:03:39. > :03:44.set of principles to help guide all public bodies in the buying of
:03:44. > :03:49.goods and services. This procurement apology is supposed to
:03:49. > :03:52.make things fair -- this procurement policy. It is meant to
:03:52. > :03:58.give smaller businesses a better chance of winning some of those
:03:58. > :04:02.contracts. But does it have teeth? Opposition politicians say that
:04:02. > :04:06.other countries, including Scotland, have given more contracts to their
:04:06. > :04:11.own countries. They want the Welsh Government to legislate to help us
:04:11. > :04:15.do the same. We've been talking for many years
:04:15. > :04:20.about getting procurement right, it is still only at 50% compared to
:04:20. > :04:24.other countries, not good enough. Legislation could increase targets,
:04:24. > :04:28.make sure that community benefit courses are in the heart of the
:04:28. > :04:32.contracts and insure that the money we spent from the public sector is
:04:32. > :04:38.locked into local communities and creates jobs. We can't afford to
:04:38. > :04:43.wait on it any longer. An independent review recommended
:04:43. > :04:47.that the Welsh Government strongly considers introducing legislation
:04:47. > :04:51.to make adopting the procurement policy a legal duty. Without a bed
:04:52. > :04:56.does not seem to have been much progress. We have discovered that
:04:56. > :05:02.although the national policy was introduced last year, out of 22
:05:02. > :05:09.local authorities, just two, Swansea and another, have formally
:05:09. > :05:14.adopted the policy. We went to see a representative of local councils
:05:14. > :05:19.in Wales, to see if it was time for action. Legislation is not the
:05:19. > :05:23.answer to everything, we have to deliver the business, part of that
:05:23. > :05:27.is adopting best practice. messages do not seem to be getting
:05:27. > :05:32.through. We can't be pushing work willy-nilly to local companies, it
:05:32. > :05:37.has to be done on the basis of a procurement process. We have to
:05:37. > :05:41.justify value-for-money to auditors, the public and, in terms of
:05:41. > :05:45.accountability, to our own politicians. We tried to push as
:05:45. > :05:52.much business as we can locally but it is not always possible to be in
:05:52. > :05:56.100%. We want to be part of a wider UK market, it is vital for us.
:05:56. > :06:02.Many Welsh businesses struggling to climb to the top are hoping that in
:06:02. > :06:06.future, should during -- securing large contracts will not be such a
:06:06. > :06:10.challenge. We seem to be overlooked. Why are those contracts going
:06:10. > :06:15.outside of Wales? I don't understand, I think it needs to be
:06:16. > :06:21.addressed. There is a question. Joining me now
:06:21. > :06:26.is the finance minister for Wales. Thank you for coming in. That was a
:06:26. > :06:29.very pointed question, a lack of comprehension. Do you sympathise?
:06:29. > :06:33.Two-thirds of our major construction contracts last year
:06:33. > :06:37.went to Welsh based companies. We have to make it easier for Welsh
:06:37. > :06:43.based companies to get those contracts. We are talking about, as
:06:43. > :06:47.has been said, poor -- �4.3 billion worth of public money for housing,
:06:47. > :06:51.roads and hospitals. We are simplifying the process and we are
:06:51. > :06:55.saying the Community must benefit, meaning jobs, apprenticeships,
:06:55. > :07:00.local supply chains for local business. Those principles that we
:07:00. > :07:05.have talked about, there is no option about this, I expect them to
:07:05. > :07:11.be implemented by local authorities, the NHS and all those in the public
:07:11. > :07:15.sector. Going back to the gentleman we just saw with that successful
:07:15. > :07:19.business, I know you won't be able to judge an individual cases, but
:07:19. > :07:23.on the face of it, things like that should be matters for local
:07:23. > :07:28.business. He could expect to pick up local authorities a business in
:07:28. > :07:33.Wales, surely? I would think so, but it is important he is also
:07:33. > :07:39.picking up business in England, we must make sure that Welsh
:07:39. > :07:43.businesses are effectively competing in England. But it is
:07:43. > :07:47.crucial that local authorities... And we are supporting local
:07:47. > :07:52.authorities at getting better in involving local businesses. We are
:07:53. > :08:00.saying that you have to ensure that you get local businesses, all
:08:00. > :08:05.across the EU regulations, and make sure that the community benefits,
:08:05. > :08:10.support local businesses like Neil's business. How disappointed
:08:10. > :08:14.or frustrated argue that you only have two authorities who have
:08:14. > :08:21.signed up to this more streamlined new process, set of criteria, if
:08:21. > :08:27.you like? It is onesie and one other, what are the rest doing? --
:08:27. > :08:31.it is Swansea and one above. have a national procurement service
:08:31. > :08:36.strategy, which is very important, all local authorities are working
:08:36. > :08:41.with us, the Welsh Government and the health service, part of a
:08:41. > :08:45.national service. Also recognising, as I said, they have a
:08:45. > :08:52.responsibility to deliver up on community benefits. Some are better
:08:52. > :08:58.than others, no question. Some of them have to come online. That is
:08:58. > :09:03.why, as I said, in the future, we will consider legislation. That was
:09:03. > :09:09.very clear in my December statement. If they don't adopt our procurement
:09:09. > :09:12.policies... What would it take for you to legislate? If it is a matter
:09:12. > :09:18.of local authorities simply not playing the game, you would
:09:18. > :09:23.consider legislation? I think we are on the right track. How many
:09:23. > :09:27.are implementing it? It is easy to talk, how many are actually doing
:09:27. > :09:32.it and really implementing what you want them to do? Not many?
:09:32. > :09:36.believe we are on the right track, I have to save. We have said that
:09:36. > :09:40.you have got to implement over �2 million, any contractor over �2
:09:40. > :09:46.million. We are working with construction companies. In North
:09:46. > :09:53.Wales, we are meeting with some contractors there from North Wales,
:09:53. > :09:58.they have won of the contract, they have apprentices on site, they are
:09:58. > :10:02.adopting. Of course, you don't want legislation for legislation's sake,
:10:02. > :10:07.it is always powers for Purpose. We have to ensure they are delivering
:10:07. > :10:12.on his policy statement. I made that in December. It is key in
:10:12. > :10:16.terms of the economy in Wales. Where they are not implementing it
:10:16. > :10:24.down doing as you would like them to do, what reasons do you
:10:24. > :10:30.encounter? What are the reasons for the very low rate, 51 off 52%?
:10:30. > :10:34.is improving all the time. If you look at the recent contract to a
:10:34. > :10:38.developing four schools in North Wales, 21st century schools, a big
:10:38. > :10:42.building programme, we are putting money into the infrastructure. The
:10:42. > :10:45.Welsh Government is investing so there is a real opportunity. All
:10:45. > :10:49.the North Wales authorities have come together. We have said to them
:10:50. > :10:54.we don't just want one contract, it will be good value for money having
:10:54. > :10:57.one contract for the whole of North Wales, but we will break it down so
:10:57. > :11:03.that you can have a lower value contracts, meaning more contractors
:11:03. > :11:06.being able to come in at different levels. This is the way forward.
:11:06. > :11:11.Contractors and North Wales are anxious to make sure that they can.
:11:11. > :11:14.As I speak, things are changing in terms of the way we are developing
:11:14. > :11:23.our contract. It is also about learning the lessons, we have
:11:23. > :11:27.learned the lessons, we are talking an award for our community benefits.
:11:27. > :11:30.Because of -- across the whole of the UK, we are looked at as a
:11:30. > :11:34.government working in the public sector, but with local authorities
:11:34. > :11:38.they have to improve their game, that is a strong message from the
:11:38. > :11:42.as Minister. Very strong and clear. There is another big advantage you
:11:42. > :11:46.might have, which is that if you weren't having to deal with as many
:11:46. > :11:51.local authorities, if they were far fewer in number across Wales, as
:11:51. > :11:56.many think they should be, this procurement process would be simple
:11:56. > :12:01.and should be streamlined. Is that an outcome you want? In North Wales,
:12:01. > :12:06.all the local authorities have to work together. They have got one
:12:06. > :12:10.framework now for the 21st century schools programme. That is over
:12:10. > :12:14.�160 million, jobs in the construction industry.
:12:14. > :12:18.Collaboration is the name of the game here in Wales, that is what we
:12:18. > :12:24.expect as a Welsh Government. They are due very much.
:12:24. > :12:30.In 11 days' time, voters will go to the polls in the only local
:12:30. > :12:33.authority election taking place in Wales on May 2nd, the first local
:12:33. > :12:37.election Anglesey since 2008. It has been a very turbulent time, and
:12:37. > :12:42.after a decade of political infighting, the Welsh Government
:12:42. > :12:45.took the extreme step of appointing commissioners to run the county
:12:45. > :12:50.council backing 2010. Last year's local government elections were
:12:50. > :12:54.suspended, and David Williams, who lives on the island, has reported
:12:54. > :13:04.extensively on the island's troubles. He now considers what
:13:04. > :13:11.
:13:11. > :13:16.Anglesey, the mother of Wales. Once she was the bread basket of
:13:16. > :13:24.Welsh princes. More recently, she has become something of a basket
:13:25. > :13:28.case. In local authority terms, a political pauper.
:13:28. > :13:32.It is only a short distance across the Menai Bridge from the mainland
:13:32. > :13:36.to Anglesey, but sometimes when you step on this island you feel as
:13:36. > :13:43.though you are stepping into another world. The gap becomes a
:13:43. > :13:48.chasm, a gulf between Anglesey and the rest of mainland Wales. For the
:13:48. > :13:53.last 20 years, perhaps more, Anglesey as a local authority has
:13:53. > :13:57.festered and said that. It has turned itself the label, septic
:13:57. > :14:01.isle. Why? Because of the appalling behaviour of some local councillors
:14:01. > :14:06.who had the temerity to suggest that what they were doing was in
:14:06. > :14:14.the interests of those who live here. Myself included.
:14:14. > :14:17.Storm clouds have been gathering over the island of Anglesey again.
:14:17. > :14:21.The trouble had local-authority is in crisis again.
:14:21. > :14:27.All those reports cited over the years to try to highlight the
:14:27. > :14:31.malaise on Anglesey had very little effect because, here I am again,
:14:31. > :14:36.saying much the same thing and wondering why it is, that, like
:14:36. > :14:43.others on Anglesey, we have for the last two years been denied our
:14:43. > :14:48.democratic right to vote in local elections? There was the perception
:14:48. > :14:53.that this was a very fractious Council, politically, with
:14:53. > :14:58.disparate political groups, very often at war with each other. But
:14:58. > :15:06.also it has to be said that there were problems on the administration
:15:06. > :15:10.side. There was very match these island mentality. -- very much a
:15:10. > :15:13.silent mentality. Because of what was seen as chronic political
:15:13. > :15:17.infighting and misbehaviour, the Welsh Government finally lost
:15:17. > :15:27.patience with Anglesey and cent in five commissioners to try to sort
:15:27. > :15:35.
:15:36. > :15:41.Enough is enough, I have been more than patient allowing the council
:15:41. > :15:46.to sort things out. It is the politics of the playground. Work
:15:46. > :15:54.will be put on or hold as the Commission attempts to put
:15:54. > :16:00.Anglesey's house in order. One of the commissioners who stood down
:16:00. > :16:06.last year has spoken to us about the need for intervention.
:16:06. > :16:13.external solution had to come from outside to these internal problems.
:16:13. > :16:17.I understand there is an economic argument but once the argument was
:16:17. > :16:23.out of the we then for the term you need to get on with the job of
:16:23. > :16:28.helping these people in Anglesey. Certainly, in this the indeed, at
:16:28. > :16:36.this time of austerity, areas no place for it schoolboy politics as
:16:36. > :16:40.was referred to at the time. It is still a difficult to comprehend the
:16:40. > :16:46.corrosive and damaging effect of the petty political intrigue that
:16:46. > :16:51.has gone on in this local authority. The people who live and work here
:16:51. > :16:57.have deep-rooted perceptions of Anglesey as they look at their
:16:57. > :17:04.right to vote in next month's elections. I do not passed them.
:17:04. > :17:12.They make promises they never keep. -- do not trust. The put a new
:17:12. > :17:18.structure in place, are you aware of that? Yes, but I will believe it
:17:18. > :17:24.when I see it. Did the disappoint you in the past? You s, in every
:17:24. > :17:29.way, housing, jobs, everything. is a national disgrace really.
:17:29. > :17:34.People we have spoken to say they are hopeful but they are not quite
:17:34. > :17:39.sure things will change, how do you think it will go? Every election
:17:39. > :17:45.they have had people have been hopeful. I feel sorry for the
:17:45. > :17:50.voters but nothing seems to have changed. There are many examples of
:17:50. > :17:55.the seemingly senseless behaviour which has characterised this place.
:17:55. > :18:00.There is for me one case that exemplify is this the rotten
:18:00. > :18:06.borough. It resolves around this place, now at a beacon of hope and
:18:06. > :18:12.what can be achieved when councillors finally put their minds
:18:12. > :18:19.to it. It involved the knocking together of several heads. For
:18:19. > :18:23.almost 10 years it was the case of acute data without a gallery. Local
:18:23. > :18:29.councillors at the time could not agree among themselves where to
:18:29. > :18:34.house this priceless collection bought for the people of Anglesey
:18:34. > :18:40.with millions of pounds given in a bequest. The drawings said to be
:18:40. > :18:44.among the best that there is, languished in a vault in the dim
:18:44. > :18:49.local authority headquarters until that brave curator it gave me and a
:18:50. > :18:55.film crew access in the hope that the publicity which followed would
:18:55. > :19:01.shake the councillors out of their lethargy. It worked. The result is
:19:01. > :19:07.to be seen here. The Tunnicliffe collection and much more or. It is
:19:07. > :19:12.now on show to the public instead of being hidden away gathering dust.
:19:12. > :19:17.It is difficult to believe it could have been otherwise but for me,
:19:17. > :19:26.this is a reminder of how bad things were, are under siege, the
:19:26. > :19:32.philistines almost won. We are told that is a thing of the past. The
:19:32. > :19:40.man charged with the task of ushering in a new era is optimistic
:19:40. > :19:47.that Anglesey can finally shed its shameful image. We are way past the
:19:47. > :19:52.last chance saloon. I think every citizen realises that. I sincerely
:19:52. > :19:59.think we have turned the council around. The atmosphere is different
:19:59. > :20:03.here, it is a different place, it is different to come in to work. We
:20:03. > :20:09.have learned from bitter Experience that is never to be repeated again.
:20:09. > :20:14.Those who want to put Anglesey back on track are also hopeful that they
:20:14. > :20:22.have finally succeeded in pointing the local authority in the right
:20:22. > :20:28.direction. But the optimism is accompanied by a cautionary note.
:20:28. > :20:34.It is vital that they hold control over local Government. You do not
:20:34. > :20:40.want people from outside coming in to take absolute control and tell
:20:40. > :20:46.you what to do. I think that would be a problem. It is not something
:20:46. > :20:51.that week in Wales would wish to see. The future of Anglesey does
:20:51. > :20:57.depend on those we choose to represent us next month. At best
:20:57. > :21:01.the commissioners are likely to be put back in to run the authority.
:21:01. > :21:08.At worst the authority could disappear altogether which might
:21:08. > :21:12.happen anyway. All of us in Anglesey know that we are beyond
:21:12. > :21:18.drinking at the last chance saloon. That was David Williams reporting.
:21:18. > :21:24.You can see a full list of candidates standing in the election
:21:24. > :21:30.on the BBC News website. Last week we were discussing the ongoing
:21:30. > :21:36.measles epidemic in the Swansea area. The number of reported cases
:21:36. > :21:42.has passed the 800 mark. 77 people needing hospital treatment. The
:21:42. > :21:46.vaccination programme has been extended. Despite the appeal, the
:21:46. > :21:51.response rate for teenagers especially continues to be low.
:21:51. > :21:56.Somehow the message is not getting through to one of the most
:21:56. > :22:06.vulnerable groups. Is the media playing its part in a responsible
:22:06. > :22:08.
:22:08. > :22:13.way? Joining as his and cheap p and a journalist. -- a general
:22:13. > :22:18.practitioner and a journalist. Bring us up to date on your
:22:18. > :22:23.understanding of where this epidemic is. It is one of the most
:22:23. > :22:28.serious epidemics we have had for a number of years, especially in
:22:29. > :22:35.Wales. We have had one gentleman who looks like measles has been
:22:35. > :22:40.implicated in his death, somebody in their twenties. I am sitting
:22:40. > :22:47.here in north-east Wales talking to you and be have not been hit yet
:22:47. > :22:52.unlike other parts. I see yet at the moment because one of the
:22:52. > :22:58.worries that we all have is that this epidemic will spread from
:22:58. > :23:04.Swansea outward to other parts of Wales and possibly to England. I
:23:04. > :23:11.was talking to some colleagues the other day. We were really very
:23:11. > :23:16.anxious that we were going to be a hit by this sort of measles tsunami.
:23:16. > :23:22.With those concerns in mind, what practical steps are you taking in
:23:22. > :23:29.your region? We are all getting switched on to try to identify
:23:29. > :23:35.young people, because it tends to be children in their teens, who are
:23:35. > :23:40.most at risk. They are the ones who have missed the boat. We are trying
:23:40. > :23:45.to identify those and approach the parents and young people themselves
:23:45. > :23:51.to alert them to the fact they have deficiencies in their protection.
:23:51. > :23:56.The other thing which I am fortunate to be able to do is, I
:23:56. > :24:06.have a column in the local paper, I am using that as well to tell
:24:06. > :24:10.
:24:10. > :24:14.people. I will come back to that in a second but I will ask you because
:24:14. > :24:20.of your Media Experience, today, what is the role of the media in
:24:20. > :24:24.trying to sort this out? I think the media has been playing a
:24:24. > :24:31.constructive role. It is a big story and the focus is about making
:24:31. > :24:36.sure people become safe and get immunised. All the past questions
:24:36. > :24:41.and debate about the MMR vaccine I think have been put to one side.
:24:41. > :24:46.What is important here is how to prevent people getting measles. The
:24:46. > :24:53.focus on the story is that it is prominent and the focus is on
:24:53. > :24:59.getting people to be safe. The media is playing an important role.
:24:59. > :25:09.The best way it can serve general practitioners and others by getting
:25:09. > :25:10.
:25:10. > :25:14.people to go and get the vaccine is by keeping it important. What has
:25:14. > :25:18.been the difference in the take-up rate in your region since this
:25:18. > :25:22.story started? Our people knocking on your door saying we have kids
:25:22. > :25:30.who were not vaccinated for whatever reason and we want it
:25:30. > :25:36.done? Not very much. People see it as a problem in Swansea but it is a
:25:36. > :25:41.problem for the whole of Wales. Ins one see there were marginally lower
:25:41. > :25:46.uptakes than other places so there was less community protection in
:25:46. > :25:51.Swansea than there has been in other parts of Wales. That is not
:25:51. > :25:59.to say that protection in other parts of Wales is fantastic, it is
:25:59. > :26:03.not. We are all at risk. Why, for example, in your region, is this
:26:03. > :26:09.problem still persisting? Are people still concerned about the
:26:09. > :26:15.safety of the MMR? I think less so now. I think that comes back to the
:26:15. > :26:20.media have been done a good job to get across that the MMR is safe and
:26:20. > :26:26.effective. The message that was getting out 10 years ago was not
:26:26. > :26:32.right. If the media are doing a good job now is that meeting up for
:26:32. > :26:37.the fact that they made a hash of it in the first place? I think that
:26:37. > :26:44.is probably true. Good journalists are trained to offer a balanced
:26:44. > :26:51.view. The problem was that when the original story broke there was at
:26:51. > :26:56.clearly dominant view that MMR was safe and an abhorrent view of Dr
:26:56. > :27:02.Andrew Wakefield that made a speculative view that it was not
:27:02. > :27:08.safe. The two of these were treated as though they were almost of equal
:27:08. > :27:12.weight. We saw lots of parents coming on expressing concern. Often
:27:12. > :27:18.the parents look like more sympathetic figures than doctors
:27:18. > :27:24.making bland assurances. This created a climate of worry. We
:27:24. > :27:27.tracked public opinion during a big spike in coverage in 2002, in the
:27:27. > :27:32.beginning of the coverage people were much more likely to believe
:27:32. > :27:36.the vaccine was safe but towards the end of the coverage a majority
:27:36. > :27:44.said they felt there was equal evidence on both sides of the
:27:44. > :27:49.debate. Finally, you hinted earlier you were concerned about the uptake
:27:49. > :27:53.rate in your region, can you be a little bit more specific, how
:27:53. > :28:00.concerned are you? I think I am very concerned because we have got
:28:01. > :28:05.a group of children in which the take up rate was so low it is like
:28:05. > :28:11.Swiss cheese, there are holes in the cheese where the virus can get
:28:11. > :28:17.in. If it is a solid wall of protection, most of the community
:28:17. > :28:23.being protected, the virus cannot get a foothold but we have this
:28:23. > :28:28.Swiss cheese protection all through Wales. An epidemic could happen
:28:28. > :28:34.anywhere in Wales as well as Swansea. Thank you for joining us
:28:35. > :28:40.both of you. If you want to hear more about the measles epidemic you
:28:40. > :28:45.can watch our programme on Wednesday night at 10: 35 on BBC