:00:00. > :00:00.It says the body has double standards and is capable of solving
:00:00. > :00:00.conflicts. France says it shows its frustrations. Now it is time for the
:00:00. > :00:18.week in Parliament. Welcome to the week in Parliament.
:00:19. > :00:22.David Cameron and Ed Miliband go into battle over green taxes,
:00:23. > :00:27.unemployment and the cost of living. Don't you feel faintly
:00:28. > :00:30.embarrassed that in five years he has gone from a husky to gas a
:00:31. > :00:38.badger. While borrowing, more spending, more debt. We talked to
:00:39. > :00:43.two Parliamentary experts about what happens when a good law goes bad.
:00:44. > :00:47.And we chat to the Deputy Speaker of the Commons and find out what it was
:00:48. > :00:53.like to cheer her first debate. It is quite something to give up those
:00:54. > :00:59.steps. In the true sense of the word, it was awesome. But lest a
:01:00. > :01:03.start with the good news and bad news. David Cameron came to the
:01:04. > :01:08.Commons for questions on Wednesday armed with the latest unemployment
:01:09. > :01:17.figures which showed the drop to just 2.5 million people out of work.
:01:18. > :01:21.The session became before British Gas announcement of higher gas
:01:22. > :01:26.prices. But first Ed Miliband turned his attention to the jobless
:01:27. > :01:31.figures. Today's figures show a welcome fall in unemployment. They
:01:32. > :01:36.also show that prices have risen faster than wages, 39 out of 40
:01:37. > :01:42.months that living standards have fallen. Will he confirm what
:01:43. > :01:46.everybody knows, that there is a cost of living crisis in this
:01:47. > :01:49.country? First of all, let the welcome his welcome for the
:01:50. > :01:57.unemployment figures. Not everybody in the house would have been able to
:01:58. > :02:01.study them. It is good news. Unemployment is down 18,000. Women's
:02:02. > :02:03.unemployment is down, youth unemployment is down, long`term
:02:04. > :02:10.unemployment is down. Vacancies are up. The fall in the claimant count
:02:11. > :02:14.is 41,000 this month alone. That is the fastest fall in the number of
:02:15. > :02:19.people claiming unemployment benefit since February 1997. These are
:02:20. > :02:25.welcome figures. Of course we all want to see living standards
:02:26. > :02:30.improve. Last year disposable income increased. But the way to improve
:02:31. > :02:36.living standards is to grow the economy and cut taxes. But sticking
:02:37. > :02:40.with the cost of living, Ed Miliband said the government had no answer to
:02:41. > :02:46.Labor's policy of a pressure is on energy bills. `` the Labor Party's
:02:47. > :02:53.policy. Can he confirm that he has on his side the energy companies and
:02:54. > :02:59.we have consumer bodies and a small energy producers and the vast
:03:00. > :03:03.majority of the British people. If an energy price freeze was such a
:03:04. > :03:08.great idea, why did he not introduce it when he stood as energy
:03:09. > :03:14.secretary? The fact is it is not a price freeze, it is a price on. He
:03:15. > :03:18.is not in control of worldwide gas prices, which is why he had to admit
:03:19. > :03:23.the next day he could not keep his promise. That is the truth. The
:03:24. > :03:26.reason the right honourable gentleman does not want to talk
:03:27. > :03:31.about the economy is that he has not got a credible economic policy. He
:03:32. > :03:38.cannot explain why the deficit is falling, the economy is growing,
:03:39. > :03:42.unemployment is coming down. Given his problem is no credible economic
:03:43. > :03:49.policy, he does not help himself by having a totally incredible energy
:03:50. > :03:54.policy. I thought he might get to the record of the last government.
:03:55. > :03:57.They found a new tactic. They have been floundering and blame the last
:03:58. > :04:03.government and green levies. Let us talk about green levies. Who was it
:04:04. > :04:09.who said that vote blue, go green? I think it was this Prime Minister.
:04:10. > :04:15.Who was it who said as Leader of the Opposition, and I quote, I think
:04:16. > :04:19.green taxes as a whole need to go up? Let me ask, doesn't he feel
:04:20. > :04:32.Bentley embarrassed that in five short years he has gone from Harvard
:04:33. > :04:38.a husky to gas a badger? The only embarrassing thing is this tortured
:04:39. > :04:41.performance. He wants to talk about the record of the last labour
:04:42. > :04:45.government. Let me remind him on the cost of living they doubled the
:04:46. > :04:51.council tax, they doubled the gas bills, they put up electricity bills
:04:52. > :04:58.by half, they put up petrol tax col times. The increased the basic state
:04:59. > :05:03.pension by a measly 75 p. On the day we can see there are 1 million were
:05:04. > :05:07.people in work in our country, that is 1 million reasons to stick to the
:05:08. > :05:11.economic plan we have. It is 1 million reasons to keep on getting
:05:12. > :05:15.the deficit down, delivering on education, delivering on welfare. It
:05:16. > :05:20.is 1 million reasons to say more borrowing, more spending, more
:05:21. > :05:28.adept, that is the same old Labour, never again. David Cameron and Ed
:05:29. > :05:34.Miliband. On Monday night, a Liberal Democrat MP raised the subject of
:05:35. > :05:44.pubs. He argued that governments had come about because of a loophole in
:05:45. > :05:49.the beer orders. Prior to 1989, most pubs were tied to the large
:05:50. > :05:57.breweries. It is believed rightly that is all this led to a decrease
:05:58. > :06:05.in the choice of products. However, the beer orders failed in one
:06:06. > :06:09.spectacular way. It clearly should have prevented any company from
:06:10. > :06:15.owning and supplying more than 2000 pubs. This was the tragedy and
:06:16. > :06:20.disaster of the beer orders. The result was the formation of the
:06:21. > :06:27.number of public companies such as Punch taverns. Those at the helm had
:06:28. > :06:33.little if any connection to the sector and very little empathy with
:06:34. > :06:37.it. Everybody wanted a piece of the action. They all piled in to make
:06:38. > :06:42.money with little interest for the pubs themselves, the people that run
:06:43. > :06:50.them, the communities that use them or the wider economic impact.
:06:51. > :06:54.We got thinking, what about other bits of legislation that have not
:06:55. > :07:02.quite done what they set up to do. There are plenty of examples. Aimed
:07:03. > :07:06.at getting absent parents providing to the upkeep of their children. It
:07:07. > :07:10.led to so much confusion, bureaucracy and heartache it had to
:07:11. > :07:17.be abolished and replaced. There is a more recent example. This was the
:07:18. > :07:22.original Licensing Act that went through in 2003. During the debate,
:07:23. > :07:29.ministers promised an explosion of light music. It became quite obvious
:07:30. > :07:33.five years later when they had a survey by the live music Forum that
:07:34. > :07:39.that was not the case. What effect did it have on small venues? They
:07:40. > :07:42.did not apply for licensing. Therefore the number of available
:07:43. > :07:46.venues dropped significantly. What do you think happened in the
:07:47. > :07:50.original legislation, where did it go wrong? They gave what they
:07:51. > :07:56.thought was an exemption for small venues. But actually nobody
:07:57. > :07:59.understood that. I think it was cobbled together at the very last
:08:00. > :08:05.minute by the parliamentary draughtsmen. Nobody was really
:08:06. > :08:12.paying attention. It went through at the bleeding. `` third reading.
:08:13. > :08:19.Nobody looked at it. Nobody made use of it. What did you do to remedy the
:08:20. > :08:25.situation? It became clear by 2007 that the small venues were just not
:08:26. > :08:29.putting on live music. What we decided to do, the music industry,
:08:30. > :08:35.this was a whole collection of members of Parliament, I was the one
:08:36. > :08:38.fortunate enough to be the one spearheading it, I put down a
:08:39. > :08:46.private members bill which put in a new clause that was understandable,
:08:47. > :08:54.finally. As a result, we got that show last October. Literally on the
:08:55. > :08:58.anniversary of it coming into act. With me are the director of research
:08:59. > :09:03.at the Hansard Society and the author of making better when
:09:04. > :09:05.Parliament. . Also with me as a labour MP and member of the
:09:06. > :09:13.political and instructional forum committee. `` institutional reform.
:09:14. > :09:20.Doctor Fox, what is the process at the moment for getting an idea in
:09:21. > :09:25.the law? There is a process of consultation sometimes, but not
:09:26. > :09:29.always in government when they are preparing a bell. When it arrives in
:09:30. > :09:37.Parliament, sometimes it gets little legislative scrutiny. Not always. It
:09:38. > :09:41.is not in Victoria. Sometimes people have an opportunity to look at it,
:09:42. > :09:46.but not enough. There is not protesting. There is not enough
:09:47. > :09:50.critical analysis. There is too much legislation going through Parliament
:09:51. > :09:54.to quickly. Is it the case that pre` legislative scrutiny is not used
:09:55. > :09:58.enough or it does not work? There have been improvements. It is not
:09:59. > :10:09.used enough. It is going at a painfully slow pace. Lord Butler was
:10:10. > :10:13.telling us that over 77 bills passed through Parliament in between
:10:14. > :10:21.2005`2010 that were amended but never went into law as they
:10:22. > :10:24.intended. 77 of them. An immense amount of parliamentary time. The
:10:25. > :10:28.problem with parliamentarians, we believe that every problem in life
:10:29. > :10:35.can be solved by legislation. Dogs barking, children crying. The
:10:36. > :10:39.legislated. That is the answer. But there are so many unintended
:10:40. > :10:45.consequences. The bills become nonsensical. You see that Parliament
:10:46. > :10:50.legislates to much. What is the alternative? For example if you want
:10:51. > :10:57.to make it easier to control dangerous dogs. What is the
:10:58. > :11:03.alternative? I was here for the dangerous dogs Bill. There was a
:11:04. > :11:07.hysterical campaign by the press. There was not a substantial number
:11:08. > :11:10.of attacks by dogs. But they had a lot of publicity during August.
:11:11. > :11:21.Parliament had to react to the demands of the press. We put in a
:11:22. > :11:30.law that was unworkable. Many laws are unworkable and based on
:11:31. > :11:36.campaigns and outcry. Politicians want this adulation everyday from
:11:37. > :11:40.the press. So they follow what the tabloids are demanding. Do you
:11:41. > :11:46.agree. Is there too much legislation and what is the alternative? There
:11:47. > :11:49.is. There were about 3000 pages of primary legislation in each
:11:50. > :11:54.parliamentary session. We are now looking at around 16,000 pages. That
:11:55. > :12:02.gives you a sense of the difference. Part of the problem is that when
:12:03. > :12:08.legislation is rushed, you end up with Parliament having to end up
:12:09. > :12:10.with new laws having to correct the deficiencies in previous
:12:11. > :12:13.legislation. Particularly when it is in the case of the Home Office over
:12:14. > :12:24.the past decade or so, you get duplications. Legislation for the
:12:25. > :12:31.same things. Often it is in response. It is in response to
:12:32. > :12:37.pressures from the press and the media. The response to these
:12:38. > :12:41.campaigns. It is more about managing a political problem than a policy
:12:42. > :12:46.problem. Part of the difficulty is that when implementation strikes the
:12:47. > :12:49.point of implementation is that bills are not implemented for three
:12:50. > :12:57.or four years in full after he received Royal assent. The ministers
:12:58. > :12:59.and the servants who started the policy process took the bill to
:13:00. > :13:07.Parliament and are not actually round to be accountable. It is a
:13:08. > :13:13.very brave government that says, we are come to do a lot less. That is
:13:14. > :13:16.the problem. Governments tend to measure their success not by the
:13:17. > :13:23.quality of the legislation, but the quantity. There was a bill in 2001
:13:24. > :13:27.and called the regular tour the legislative reform Bill. It was
:13:28. > :13:33.incomprehensible that nobody understood it. They had to put a new
:13:34. > :13:42.bill in five years later to explain what it went. The problem with
:13:43. > :13:46.legislators in the way we carry out this, other countries have done far
:13:47. > :13:50.better. We rely on people like the Hansard Society to point us in the
:13:51. > :13:53.right direction. We came up with some good ideas on how we can look
:13:54. > :14:00.carefully at the legislation instead of rushing it. But the government
:14:01. > :14:08.rejected all of them, I am afraid. There are mechanisms that we need.
:14:09. > :14:11.What tentative legislation. You have been critical of what you call
:14:12. > :14:16.Christmas tree bills, legislation that has all sorts of bits and
:14:17. > :14:23.pieces on them. How can you stop that happening? That is the problem
:14:24. > :14:31.go into what Paul was talking about. Ministers want their bill in the
:14:32. > :14:34.common speech. There is only so much time and opportunity. You get all of
:14:35. > :14:41.this policy baubles on one legislative tree is a desperate
:14:42. > :14:47.convoy of provisions. Often they have inconsistent principles. The
:14:48. > :14:58.reality is the way in which to stop that is changing the way in which
:14:59. > :15:01.government thinks about the legislative process and the policy
:15:02. > :15:03.process, changing the speed at which things are done. There is a role in
:15:04. > :15:07.Parliament for doing better post` legislative scrutiny. When things do
:15:08. > :15:11.go wrong, we should learn the lessons and learn from that next
:15:12. > :15:15.time. At the moment, there is not that culture of learning. We are
:15:16. > :15:20.just heading towards poor legislation.
:15:21. > :15:24.What's the worst legislation. What's the worst example you can think of
:15:25. > :15:28.with unintended consequences? All the drugs acts passed since 1971.
:15:29. > :15:35.Every single one have increased the use of drugs and drugs harm. We have
:15:36. > :15:41.a catalogue of errors through the decades. The one that everybody
:15:42. > :15:47.cites as a real problem is Dangerous Dogs Act, back in the 1990s. A
:15:48. > :15:49.current bill going through at the moment that will have unintended
:15:50. > :15:52.consequences is the lobbying bill and the impact it will have on the
:15:53. > :15:59.charity sector in terms of campaigning in the run up to the
:16:00. > :16:04.election. Thank you both very much for coming in to see us.
:16:05. > :16:07.Politicians by definition rather like elections even if they're also
:16:08. > :16:10.a bit scared of them. There was a flurry of excitement in the Commons
:16:11. > :16:19.there week with the announcement of a new deputy Speaker. This
:16:20. > :16:23.particular vacancy had to be filled by a Government side MP and hustings
:16:24. > :16:26.were held at the start of the week in which all seven, yes seven Tory
:16:27. > :16:33.MPs who put themselves forward, had a chance to set out their stalls.
:16:34. > :16:37.Bets were placed on who would be victorious when the votes were
:16:38. > :16:40.totted up. This being one election conducted by votes being transferred
:16:41. > :16:43.between candidates, as the person at the bottom of the poll was knocked
:16:44. > :16:48.out through various rounds of voting. On Wednesday afternoon,
:16:49. > :16:59.Speaker Bercow revealed the winner. The counting went to six stages. 513
:17:00. > :17:08.valid votes were cast in that round, excluding those ballot papers whose
:17:09. > :17:15.preferences had been exhausted. The quota to be reached was therefore
:17:16. > :17:33.257 votes. The person elected first deputy chairman of ways and means
:17:34. > :17:41.with 273 votes is Mrs Eleanor Lang. The next day she was in the chair
:17:42. > :17:45.for a debate on defence. Madam Deputy Speaker, may I be the first
:17:46. > :17:48.honourable member of this House to be able to welcome you to your new
:17:49. > :17:52.position, to congratulate you on your election as deputy Speaker and
:17:53. > :18:05.wish you well in your new role in the House. I will give way. From
:18:06. > :18:12.these benches Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you ` well done. From these
:18:13. > :18:15.benches we note you have achieved what the military would call initial
:18:16. > :18:35.operating capability. We wish you the very best. Could I welcome you
:18:36. > :18:38.to the chair and see you getting clear guidance from your deputy, my
:18:39. > :18:42.experience of the honourable member for Chorley is that I wouldn't
:18:43. > :18:44.listen to him too close on every occasion because he has a
:18:45. > :18:47.mischievious sense of humour. Minutes after chairing her first
:18:48. > :18:52.debate, she was asked how her first day at the office has gone. I have
:18:53. > :18:55.been so lucky today because Lindsay Hoyle and the other deputy speakers
:18:56. > :19:00.have been terribly kind to me and have explained everything to me in
:19:01. > :19:03.words of one syllable. They've taken me through the things that we have
:19:04. > :19:06.to do. There are so many matters that happen in the House which you
:19:07. > :19:09.take for granted. Somebody has to make them happen. They don't just
:19:10. > :19:14.happen. Lindsay and Dawn have been brilliant in helping me through my
:19:15. > :19:20.first day. It was quite something, actually, to go up those steps and
:19:21. > :19:26.sit in the chair. It was in the true sense of the word, it was awesome.
:19:27. > :19:34.It's a big chair. It's very comfortable, actually. The wonderful
:19:35. > :19:37.thing about it is that of course, it's a fantastic vantage point of
:19:38. > :19:41.the chamber. You can see everyone and everything. You can hear
:19:42. > :19:49.everyone and everything. As many are of that opinion say aye. Of the
:19:50. > :19:58.contrary no. Division. Clear the lobby. The new deputy Speaker
:19:59. > :20:00.Eleanor Lang there. The Coalition Government has been accused of
:20:01. > :20:06.blocking the devolution of more powers to the Welsh Assembly and its
:20:07. > :20:08.Commons. In the Commons Labour MPs criticised coalition ministers for
:20:09. > :20:13.challenging new Welsh laws in the Supreme Court. The Welsh First
:20:14. > :20:17.Minister visited Number Ten in the week to explain to David Cameron for
:20:18. > :20:27.failing to respond to a report that says Wales should get control of
:20:28. > :20:29.some taxes. Earlier I asked BBC World's Parliamentary correspondent
:20:30. > :20:36.in if legislators in Cardiff felt that London was checking up on them?
:20:37. > :20:39.Yeah for two years the Welsh Assembly has had the power to make
:20:40. > :20:43.laws in Wales in devolved areas like health and education. A couple of
:20:44. > :20:45.them have been challenged by the Attorney General here, who referred
:20:46. > :20:52.them to the Supreme Court because he said he thought the Assembly had
:20:53. > :20:57.exceeded its limited powers. He wanted judges to sort that out. Now,
:20:58. > :21:03.Labour MPs, a host of Labour MPs this week simply don't buy that
:21:04. > :21:05.argument. They think it's the UK Government here trying to block
:21:06. > :21:08.devolution, saying it doesn't like what the Welsh Government, which is
:21:09. > :21:13.run by Labour, is doing. It's doing it effectively out of spite. The
:21:14. > :21:16.Government at Westminster set up the Silk Commission. It reported nearly
:21:17. > :21:21.a year ago now. Remind us briefly what it says. The Silk Commission
:21:22. > :21:24.suggested this radical idea that the Welsh Government, for the first
:21:25. > :21:29.time, should have responsibility for raising some of the ?15 billion a
:21:30. > :21:31.year it spends. Initially it would get control over taxes, such as
:21:32. > :21:42.Stamp Duty, and ultimately some power to vary income tax bands. It
:21:43. > :21:45.would get the power to borrow money and the Welsh Government thinks
:21:46. > :21:48.that's really important in terms of actually being able to finance major
:21:49. > :21:53.projects, albeit on motorways or big hospitals. As you say, reported last
:21:54. > :21:56.November, the UK Government was expecting to deliver its response in
:21:57. > :22:03.the spring. Spring came and went. Summer came and went. Autumn's well
:22:04. > :22:06.under way, we're still waiting. Westminster then would seem to be
:22:07. > :22:11.dragging its feet? It depends who you talk to in the coalition. Nick
:22:12. > :22:14.Clegg says it's the Conservatives who don't like devolution. That's
:22:15. > :22:19.why he hasn't been able to deliver a response to give Wales more power.
:22:20. > :22:22.Talk to David Cameron, as I did a couple of weeks ago, before the
:22:23. > :22:25.party conference, they say no, they just want to get the details right,
:22:26. > :22:32.they want to make sure that's all right. According to the Prime
:22:33. > :22:38.Minister, voters in Wales might be interested in the powers debate, but
:22:39. > :22:41.really, they have other priorities. I think that the bubble in Cardiff
:22:42. > :22:46.is completely obsessed by powers, whereas the people in Wales actually
:22:47. > :22:51.what they want to know is results. How are we going to get our Health
:22:52. > :22:55.Service sorted out in Wales? Which the Welsh Assembly is not doing a
:22:56. > :23:03.good job on. How are they going to raise education standards? Above
:23:04. > :23:06.all, the question for the United Kingdom Government, how do we get
:23:07. > :23:11.the Welsh economy moving faster? How do we reform welfare to get people
:23:12. > :23:26.back to work? David Cameron not giving away too many clues about a
:23:27. > :23:29.date there. The Welsh First Minister fears unless a decision is given
:23:30. > :23:32.soon, it simply won't become law before the general election and the
:23:33. > :23:35.powers will be delayed. Is David Cameron right, do the people have
:23:36. > :23:38.other things to worry about? That's possibly true, if you look at
:23:39. > :23:41.opinion polls. All four parties in the Welsh Assembly, including the
:23:42. > :23:44.Conservatives, saying it's time to devolve more powers, that way the
:23:45. > :23:49.Assembly would TB accountable and have `` would be accountable.
:23:50. > :23:53.In a week when it's been what politicians can do to curb the cost
:23:54. > :24:03.of living that's dominated debate at Westminster.
:24:04. > :24:12.you would get rained on at least one of the days, but the good thing is
:24:13. > :24:17.that it is at least mild, and it has recently been very mild. 18 degrees
:24:18. > :24:22.on Friday. The average is close to 14 degrees. It is in the far north
:24:23. > :24:27.of Scotland where temperatures are a fraction below the average. Close
:24:28. > :24:31.enough to the average. This mild air, which has been coming from the
:24:32. > :24:35.south`west in the last few days, is here to stay, or through the week.
:24:36. > :24:40.The cold air is going to be tucked into the far north`east of the UK.
:24:41. > :24:45.This is how we entered the night. Saturday, first thing in the
:24:46. > :24:51.morning, cold and rainy. The rest of the country will be damp, if not
:24:52. > :24:54.wet. 13 `14 degrees in Cardiff and Plymouth. A summary for the weekend.
:24:55. > :24:56.We are calling