:00:00. > :00:00.Financial Times, after Wonga was caught sending fake debt
:00:00. > :00:10.collectors, there are suggestions banks could be using the same
:00:11. > :00:14.tactic. Now, it is that Week in Parliament.
:00:15. > :00:18.Hello there and welcome to the programme. Coming up: It's all about
:00:19. > :00:22.numbers this week, as David Cameron and Ed Miliband slug it out over
:00:23. > :00:25.England's NHS. He promised the reorganisation in the NHS would make
:00:26. > :00:35.things better, it has made things worse. Millions more patients
:00:36. > :00:41.treated, our health service ranked officially the best in the world. An
:00:42. > :00:44.MP demands to know what happened to a dossier about alleged paedophiles
:00:45. > :00:47.at Westminster. Also on this programme: We find out why two
:00:48. > :00:50.groups of pollsters can't make their numbers add up. And you can't vote
:00:51. > :00:54.if you don't register ` we hear about the latest initiative to get
:00:55. > :01:00.more people on the list. You will be able to register online. It seems
:01:01. > :01:06.incredible that it has taken this long to happen. But first, to Prime
:01:07. > :01:09.Minister's Questions. David Cameron and Ed Miliband traded statistics
:01:10. > :01:13.over the state of England's NHS. The Government made big changes to the
:01:14. > :01:16.way the Health Service is run when it came to power in 2010. They
:01:17. > :01:18.exchanged blows over waiting times and A departments, before Ed
:01:19. > :01:27.Miliband moved on to another Health Service target. Can he tell us,
:01:28. > :01:30.since the reorganisation, has the number of people waiting more than
:01:31. > :01:39.four hours on trolleys got better or worse? The number of people waiting
:01:40. > :01:42.to get into accident and emergency, people are waiting less time than
:01:43. > :01:46.they were waiting under the last Labour government. We remember what
:01:47. > :01:49.the last Labour government gave us, they give us the disgrace of Mid
:01:50. > :01:55.Staffordshire, for which they have never properly apologised. What they
:01:56. > :02:00.said about our plans, we have put ?12.7 billion extra into the NHS.
:02:01. > :02:04.Their view was, it was irresponsible. They opposed reform
:02:05. > :02:10.to the NHS, and you can see the effect in Wales. No reform, no
:02:11. > :02:18.money, longer waiting lists, no targets met, people dying on waiting
:02:19. > :02:20.lists, under a Labour government. He cannot answer the most basic
:02:21. > :02:24.questions about his targets in the NHS. I can tell him, the number
:02:25. > :02:35.people waiting on trolleys for more than four hours has up from 61,000
:02:36. > :02:38.to 167,000 on his watch. He promised the reorganisation would make things
:02:39. > :02:41.better, it has made things worse. Worse on access to cancer treatment,
:02:42. > :02:45.worse on A waits, worse on GP access, the NHS is getting worse on
:02:46. > :02:51.his watch, and there is only one person to blame, and it is him.
:02:52. > :02:56.Honestly, if he cannot do better than that, he really is in trouble.
:02:57. > :02:59.What is happening under this Government, millions more patients
:03:00. > :03:02.treated, a cancer drugs fund for the first time, our Health Service
:03:03. > :03:07.ranked officially the best in the world. And we know what he would do,
:03:08. > :03:10.because we've heard from the Director of Policy, who said this:
:03:11. > :03:16.There will be no interesting ideas will emerge from Labour's policy
:03:17. > :03:21.review. That is official. And then his gurus come out, they say he has
:03:22. > :03:23.no vision. Then yesterday, he misquotes statistics, gets them
:03:24. > :03:26.completely wrong, and the factory he speaks in, the managing director
:03:27. > :03:37.says that Labour's policy would be a bureaucratic nightmare. I would say
:03:38. > :03:43.to the people looking glum behind him, cheer up folks, it's only
:03:44. > :03:51.Wednesday. The nurses have lost quite a considerable amount in their
:03:52. > :03:57.real pay. The A are bursting at the seams. Then there's the question
:03:58. > :04:05.of almost every hospital in Britain that is running into financial
:04:06. > :04:12.difficulties. As a member of the Bullingden Club, is he proud to be
:04:13. > :04:26.surrounded by this wreckage? Remember it is his legacy, not ours.
:04:27. > :04:29.Get it done or get out. I just think the picture that the honourable
:04:30. > :04:32.gentleman paints is completely wrong. Of course there are more
:04:33. > :04:35.people going to A, and more people, but we are meeting our
:04:36. > :04:41.targets and waiting times are down by half. He talks about nurses,
:04:42. > :04:46.there are 4000 more nurses in our NHS than when I first stood at this
:04:47. > :04:51.dispatch box. There are 7000 more doctors. What he ought to know about
:04:52. > :04:54.is that we have cut the number of administrative staff, the
:04:55. > :04:57.bureaucrats we were left with by the party opposite. 19,000 fewer of
:04:58. > :05:07.those, that is why we are able to treat more patients with more. A
:05:08. > :05:10.Labour MP has called for a Conservative former Home Secretary,
:05:11. > :05:12.Leon ` now Lord ` Brittan, to make public what he knew about
:05:13. > :05:19.allegations of paedophiles operating in Westminster in the 1980s. Simon
:05:20. > :05:21.Danczuk said the then Home Secretary had been presented with a dossier
:05:22. > :05:27.which contained allegations against a number of Westminster figures. Mr
:05:28. > :05:31.Danczuk has recently published a book which helped expose the late
:05:32. > :05:45.Liberal MP Cyril Smith as a child sex abuser. He was asked how Mr
:05:46. > :05:48.Smith had got away with his behaviour for so long. I just want
:05:49. > :05:52.to refer to something that you just said, and you have said it a few
:05:53. > :05:55.times. One of the reasons Mr Smith was able to get away with what he
:05:56. > :05:59.was, I think you used the word networking connections. Are you
:06:00. > :06:05.saying the police and the local authorities were working with him or
:06:06. > :06:08.complicit with him? I think higher up, higher up the food chain, in
:06:09. > :06:15.terms of the networks that Smith belonged to, there is no doubts
:06:16. > :06:22.about it. That for example, he attended... I have spoken to victims
:06:23. > :06:25.that he abused at the guesthouse, there are other high`profile figures
:06:26. > :06:33.that are alleged to have attended Elm Guesthouse. An important point
:06:34. > :06:35.is, actually, one of my predecessors for the Littleborough part of my
:06:36. > :06:38.constituency, a Conservative MP, produced a dossier in the 1980s,
:06:39. > :06:40.which he presented to the then Home Secretary, about paedophile
:06:41. > :06:56.information exchange, about paedophiles operating and networking
:06:57. > :07:01.within and around Westminster. Now I think there are questions to be
:07:02. > :07:12.answered... What year was that? It was the mid`1980s. This was 1984,
:07:13. > :07:15.85. The Home Secretary was Lord Brittan. I would think the then Home
:07:16. > :07:19.Secretary should step forward. I think it would be helpful for Lord
:07:20. > :07:22.Brittan to share his knowledge of what ` of how he dealt with these
:07:23. > :07:27.allegations that were made at the time. What happened to the dossier?
:07:28. > :07:30.That's a good question. It arrived at the Home Office, but we do not
:07:31. > :07:35.know where it is, but the enquiry we talk about, is to get to the bottom
:07:36. > :07:37.of about, is to get to the bottom of this. Well, speaking after that
:07:38. > :07:40.hearing, Leon Brittan said he'd handed the dossier to his civil
:07:41. > :07:42.servants to investigate, it was passed onto the appropriate
:07:43. > :07:48.authorities, and the matter was dealt with properly. The Home Office
:07:49. > :07:50.then issued a statement saying that a review in 2013 found the
:07:51. > :07:53."credible" elements of the dossier, which had "realistic potential" for
:07:54. > :07:56.further investigation were sent to police and prosecutors, while other
:07:57. > :08:04.parts were either not retained, or were destroyed.
:08:05. > :08:07.Now, it may only be July, but in the Commons, we had the last round of
:08:08. > :08:10.Scotland Questions ahead of the independence referendum on September
:08:11. > :08:23.the 18th. And in the chamber and out on the campaign trail, it's been all
:08:24. > :08:26.go. Here's Billy Hill. The SNP's Pete Wishart appeals to
:08:27. > :08:29.the Scottish Secretary to debate with Alex Salmond as part of the
:08:30. > :08:35.referendum campaign. He says Alistair Darling just isn't up to
:08:36. > :08:38.the job. It is worse than the Bannockburn re`enactment if they put
:08:39. > :08:47.him out to debate with the First Minister! We need the honourable
:08:48. > :08:59.gentleman himself to do it. What we need is the organ grinder, not the
:09:00. > :09:02.monkey. Tory MP Rory Stewart says the rest of the UK should start
:09:03. > :09:06.love`bombing the Scots. Speaking at a debate in London, he says we
:09:07. > :09:12.should show them how much we love them. KISSING NOISES.
:09:13. > :09:15.There have been demonstrations outside BBC Scotland in Glasgow.
:09:16. > :09:21.Pro`independence supporters say the BBC as an unhealthy bias towards the
:09:22. > :09:24.pro`union side. Ed Miliband says the Labour
:09:25. > :09:28.Government would have to look at setting up border posts if there is
:09:29. > :09:31.a Yes vote. Speaking in Edinburgh, he said the rest of the UK might
:09:32. > :09:36.need to take action against the SNP's proposed looser immigration
:09:37. > :09:40.policy. And speaking in Perth, David Cameron
:09:41. > :09:43.says it is time to hear from what he called the silent majority of Scots
:09:44. > :09:53.who were passionate about the union and do not want to take a big risk
:09:54. > :09:56.by voting for independence. We do not have to ask people to choose
:09:57. > :09:59.between the Saltire and the Union Flag. You can be proud of your
:10:00. > :10:02.Scottishness, proud of the Scottish nationhood, proud of what Scotland
:10:03. > :10:03.stands for, proud of Scottish history, but still believe in being
:10:04. > :10:15.part of the United Kingdom. A quick round up there of what has
:10:16. > :10:18.been happening in the Scotland campaign this week. There was one
:10:19. > :10:21.other subject that cropped up, this was all about polling. One group of
:10:22. > :10:26.pollsters has consistently given the No campaign a much bigger lead than
:10:27. > :10:29.another group of pollsters. It is a psychological argument that has been
:10:30. > :10:35.ruffling a few feathers, but who is right back who better to tell us
:10:36. > :10:40.than David Cowan? Is this an important row? On one level, you
:10:41. > :10:43.might think it is just an argument between specialists, something the
:10:44. > :10:48.Market Research Society should think about, but it is highly political.
:10:49. > :10:51.The reason I say that is, because if one set rate that the leaders 6% or
:10:52. > :11:04.7%, then that makes the possibility for the Yes campaign that much more
:11:05. > :11:08.easy to achieve. If on the other hand the other group are right, and
:11:09. > :11:11.people who are saying that the lead for the No campaign is about 20%,
:11:12. > :11:14.that makes the prospects for the Yes campaign more complicated. So
:11:15. > :11:17.although it is an argument about methodology and systems, at the
:11:18. > :11:20.heart of it is a very, very political issue, as to what the
:11:21. > :11:23.prospects are for the Yes campaign being able to batter away and come
:11:24. > :11:26.through to the end and be successful. So why are the two
:11:27. > :11:29.groups coming up with different figures? Fascinating question.
:11:30. > :11:33.Traditionally one would say, let's look at the way they do it, so there
:11:34. > :11:37.might be a difference between internet pollsters and people who
:11:38. > :11:41.conduct polls by telephone. But that is not the case, this is a mixture
:11:42. > :11:44.of people who are saying there is a much bigger lead for the No
:11:45. > :11:50.campaign, or a mixture of telephone pollsters and internet posters. The
:11:51. > :11:52.difficulty I think is that traditionally, when pollsters are
:11:53. > :11:55.looking at how they measure the success of the individual polls,
:11:56. > :12:02.they have something to refer back to ` a previous election. But of
:12:03. > :12:05.course, in this case, there is no previous election. Referendums are
:12:06. > :12:17.problem, as YouGov discovered in 2011 in the AV referendum. They were
:12:18. > :12:20.eight points out. So how do you have something to refer to that corrects
:12:21. > :12:35.whatever your poll is saying at the moment? If you had to jump one way
:12:36. > :12:43.or the other, who would you say might... `` who would you say is
:12:44. > :12:46.right? Some easy questions to start with! My sense is that the
:12:47. > :12:50.difficulty for the Yes campaign is whether you take the narrow polls
:12:51. > :12:53.were the ones with the bigger lead, there is not, it seems to me, the
:12:54. > :12:57.momentum for the Yes campaign, which is what they need. And so if I had
:12:58. > :13:01.to bet the mortgage on it, which is always the test in my family, I
:13:02. > :13:04.would think that the debate is probably highlighting, not so much
:13:05. > :13:08.the difference, it is the fact that whatever the difference is, it is
:13:09. > :13:11.still at the moment No. There are still a surprising number of people
:13:12. > :13:15.who put themselves down as 'don't know'. What will happen with them? A
:13:16. > :13:21.lot of those people tend to be people who do not vote. That is
:13:22. > :13:24.often the case. What evidence I have seen from some of the polls where
:13:25. > :13:28.they ask the people who say, OK, you say you don't know, however, if I
:13:29. > :13:34.was to put your foot over an open flame and torment you and force you
:13:35. > :13:39.into a choice, what would you do? About half still say that they do
:13:40. > :13:43.not know. But of the other half, when forced to make the choice, most
:13:44. > :13:47.of the polling I have seen suggests it is about an even split. So there
:13:48. > :14:04.does not appear to be an army locked away.
:14:05. > :14:09.David Cowling on the pollster's headaches ahead of a unique event!
:14:10. > :14:16.Now let's take a brief look at some other news from around Westminster.
:14:17. > :14:20.Condonation of the murders of three Israeli teenagers. The 16
:14:21. > :14:23.`year`olds, along with a 19`year`old, were kidnapped as they
:14:24. > :14:28.hitchhiked home from their religious college. The minister was called to
:14:29. > :14:34.the Commons to make a statement on their killings, before the death of
:14:35. > :14:39.17`year`old who was abducted and murdered on Wednesday. Bjoergen
:14:40. > :14:48.priority is to hold those responsible to account under the
:14:49. > :14:57.rule of law, and we stand ready to do everything possible to help. To
:14:58. > :14:59.the British overseas territory for centuries. Tensions have increased
:15:00. > :15:03.in the row over fishing rights. Spain has imposed strict water
:15:04. > :15:07.controls, leading to long delays. Gibraltar feels it is under siege.
:15:08. > :15:12.The government's laudable attempts to de`escalate this dispute have not
:15:13. > :15:17.worked. They were right to try diplomacy. But they must now take a
:15:18. > :15:21.more robust approach, as long as this is agreed with the government
:15:22. > :15:26.of Gibraltar. Why are women still being paid less than men? Labour MPs
:15:27. > :15:32.say if anything the situation is getting worse. Given that the equal
:15:33. > :15:35.pay act takes back some 44 years, can the minister tell me why she
:15:36. > :15:47.thinks it is that it has doubled since the government came to power?
:15:48. > :15:51.And why it is the case that women in their 20s have seen the gender pay
:15:52. > :15:56.gap double since her government came to power? What I would say is that
:15:57. > :15:59.of course the 0.1% increase in the pay gap over the last year is
:16:00. > :16:02.certainly not things going in the right direction. It was obviously a
:16:03. > :16:12.very small increase, but yes, to highlight the effect after the eight
:16:13. > :16:16.equal pay legislation. `` 40 years after equal pay legislation, it is
:16:17. > :16:20.not good enough that we still have a pay gap in this country. We need to
:16:21. > :16:23.look at the causes of that pay gap, whether it is time out of the
:16:24. > :16:26.workplace, for example the new regime which came in this week, with
:16:27. > :16:29.the new flexible working entitlements, which will help to
:16:30. > :16:32.change the culture of the workplace. We need to look at the occupational
:16:33. > :16:35.segregation, as are mentioned. And we need to look at those issues
:16:36. > :16:38.around this limitation and outdated attitudes, where women are not being
:16:39. > :16:41.paid to doing the same work, and that is why we are working with
:16:42. > :16:44.business to do so. `` discrimination. And did you know
:16:45. > :16:46.that the way you register to vote has changed? Well, if not, the
:16:47. > :16:49.Electoral Commission has just launched a campaign in England and
:16:50. > :16:53.Wales, telling you all about it. From now on, people will have to
:16:54. > :16:56.sign up to vote themselves, instead of relying on the head of household
:16:57. > :16:59.to do it for them. Most voters on the old register will be
:17:00. > :17:02.automatically transferred to the new system. But an estimated six million
:17:03. > :17:07.people are missing from the list in 2011, between six and 8.5 million
:17:08. > :17:10.people were off the register. If the July research shows that there has
:17:11. > :17:13.been an increase or it has stayed the same over the past four years,
:17:14. > :17:24.will you consider this to be a success or a failure? We would all
:17:25. > :17:34.like to see a more complete there is no question about that. Would you
:17:35. > :17:37.see it as a success or failure? I would say that we made very clear
:17:38. > :17:40.when we published the research that showed there were six million people
:17:41. > :17:45.missing from the register, that there are many underlying reasons
:17:46. > :17:48.for that. And one of those indeed is the reason that I think you're
:17:49. > :17:51.carrying out this enquiry, which is that there is a disengagement of
:17:52. > :17:53.people with politics in this country. So from that perspective,
:17:54. > :17:57.we certainly think it is important that people can vote if they want to
:17:58. > :18:00.do so, and that they are not prohibited from participating by
:18:01. > :18:08.lack of information, and by a not being on the political register. At
:18:09. > :18:11.the last general election, 19.5 million people were not involved in
:18:12. > :18:14.the political process. To put that in perspective, the Conservatives
:18:15. > :18:17.got 10 million votes at the last election. Labour got 8 million
:18:18. > :18:23.votes. 18 million for the top parties. 19.5 million people not
:18:24. > :18:30.involved in the British political process. This democracy in crisis? I
:18:31. > :18:34.think that is one of the questions the committee is asking. We think it
:18:35. > :18:38.is important that people are not inhibited from participating by a
:18:39. > :18:41.lack of information or by not being on the register. I don't think we
:18:42. > :18:45.have any evidence that there were people who went to try and vote and
:18:46. > :18:48.were unable to because they want on the register, but of course it is
:18:49. > :18:53.important that people know they have two be registered in order to
:18:54. > :18:57.participate. It is important, but is British democracy in crisis? That is
:18:58. > :18:59.not how I would characterise it, I think we all share a concern around
:19:00. > :19:02.turnout and disengagement and engagement with the political
:19:03. > :19:04.process. The political and constitutional reform committee in
:19:05. > :19:06.action there. And appearing alongside Jenny Watson was Alex
:19:07. > :19:09.Robertson, who is the communications director at the electoral
:19:10. > :19:13.commission. I am very pleased to say that he is with me now. So Alex,
:19:14. > :19:15.this whole situation of people not being registered to vote, it's
:19:16. > :19:20.actually getting worse, isn't it? There were four million in 2000. We
:19:21. > :19:23.are now told there are six million. Yes, so we publish some research
:19:24. > :19:36.back in 2005 that identified around 3.5 million people not registered to
:19:37. > :19:39.vote at that time. And then subsequently published research in
:19:40. > :19:42.2011, which attested that the number had gone up to around six million.
:19:43. > :19:46.Lots of different reasons flat, some of which are to do with things like
:19:47. > :19:49.social mobility. If you move house, the frequency with which you move
:19:50. > :19:52.house has a big bearing on whether you are registered to vote.
:19:53. > :19:56.Something around 35% of people who have moved house in the last year at
:19:57. > :20:00.registered at the correct address. That does tend to have quite a
:20:01. > :20:04.bearing on these things. But no, it is a very big number, and a very big
:20:05. > :20:07.concern for us. And we spend a lot of time thinking about how we can
:20:08. > :20:11.get more people registered, both through the work we do, the way we
:20:12. > :20:13.can support others, and what any sort of electoral education office
:20:14. > :20:17.is doing. But it is not exactly difficult to register to vote, is
:20:18. > :20:21.it? All you need to do is fill in the form and send it back. Well, not
:20:22. > :20:24.even that, for the first time, in England and Wales now, and in
:20:25. > :20:27.Scotland, just after the referendum from the 19th of September, you will
:20:28. > :20:31.be able to vote online. And it seems incredible that it has taken that
:20:32. > :20:34.long to happen. But you will be able to do that. We think that will make
:20:35. > :20:38.a really big difference to how easy it is to get people registered to
:20:39. > :20:43.vote. One of the things that we find that a lot of people don't realise
:20:44. > :20:47.that they are registered to vote. `` aren't registered to vote. A lot of
:20:48. > :20:50.people, a common misconception is that if you move house, and you
:20:51. > :20:53.register for council tax at your new address, you are automatically
:20:54. > :20:57.registered to vote. You are not. A lot of people think if you are a
:20:58. > :21:00.young person and turn 18 that you automatically register to vote. You
:21:01. > :21:02.don't. So there is a lot of awareness raising that we at the
:21:03. > :21:06.registration officers need to do. And lots of great work that campaign
:21:07. > :21:08.groups can do to get people registered, particularly those that
:21:09. > :21:11.work with young people. But isn't there a fear among quite a lot of
:21:12. > :21:14.people that they give their information over to register to
:21:15. > :21:18.vote, that could be used for something else? I mean it is a very
:21:19. > :21:21.secure process. I don't think people should be worried about that. If you
:21:22. > :21:23.are concerned about that information on our website, which is the
:21:24. > :21:28.government website, where you can also find out. It is
:21:29. > :21:46.gov.uk/yourvotematters. That is where people should go. I can
:21:47. > :21:49.understand why people, if they are concerned about those things, might
:21:50. > :21:52.ask that question, but actually, I think the answer is very reassuring.
:21:53. > :21:56.Do you have any idea what proportion of those don't want to vote? It is a
:21:57. > :21:59.combination of situational factors, like a talked about, just not being
:22:00. > :22:02.aware, and attitudinal factors. It is very hard to exactly what the
:22:03. > :22:05.reasons are. But over that period we were talking about before, when more
:22:06. > :22:08.people fell off the register, there was a general disengagement from
:22:09. > :22:11.politics. And that will be a factor. People's attitudes towards politics
:22:12. > :22:21.will inform how hungry they are to register to vote. A reasonable
:22:22. > :22:26.percentage of people didn't vote in the most recent European elections.
:22:27. > :22:28.What is that? You do get lots of changes between different elections
:22:29. > :22:32.in how people vote. Some are very specific to the context. It may be
:22:33. > :22:35.to do with the type of election, the European elections obviously they
:22:36. > :22:37.get less people voting in the general election. The closeness of
:22:38. > :22:40.the contest, the perceived distance between radical parties. There is a
:22:41. > :22:43.lot of research that looks at that depth. It will vary, specifically,
:22:44. > :22:46.from context to context. It isn't something that we in terms of
:22:47. > :22:57.European elections have looked at very closely. You talked there about
:22:58. > :23:00.online registering. Are there lots of other things that could be done
:23:01. > :23:03.to make it simpler? Why, for example, when people fill in their
:23:04. > :23:06.council tax, aren't they registered? Or why doesn't come with their
:23:07. > :23:13.national insurance number when they turn 16, in readiness for voting?
:23:14. > :23:18.These are easy things, why aren't they being done? A very good point.
:23:19. > :23:22.What we are very keen to see is now that we have these changes to the
:23:23. > :23:24.registration system and can do it online, where to go next? We're
:23:25. > :23:27.actually linking up with people's interaction with other public
:23:28. > :23:30.services, particularly when you move house. And that really has such a
:23:31. > :23:33.big impact on the people that fall off the register. It should be
:23:34. > :23:37.possible. And it will take time to get the technology right. And it may
:23:38. > :23:39.be worth pointing out to those listening that there is no central
:23:40. > :23:42.database of all the electoral registries. There are individual
:23:43. > :23:45.electoral registers at each local authority. So it isn't possible to
:23:46. > :23:48.share that so easily at the national level. But on the basic point about
:23:49. > :23:51.making it more straightforward and easy, absolutely, it totally should
:23:52. > :23:54.be. And that has to be the direction this moves the next. Thank you very
:23:55. > :23:58.much for coming into the programme. Alex Robertson, on increasing the
:23:59. > :24:00.numbers registered to vote, in a week when the row between David