0:00:12 > 0:00:14Hello and welcome to the Week In Parliament.
0:00:14 > 0:00:16Tax affairs needn't be taxing, as the saying goes,
0:00:16 > 0:00:20except when they're Google tax affairs.
0:00:20 > 0:00:24Why is there one rule for bhg multinational companies and another
0:00:24 > 0:00:30for ordinary, small businesses and self-employed workers?
0:00:30 > 0:00:32It could be June, it could be September.
0:00:32 > 0:00:35Whenever the EU referendum hs, what will the issues be,
0:00:35 > 0:00:38and who will turn out to vote?
0:00:38 > 0:00:41Will it only be the motivatdd voters who are very keen to leave
0:00:41 > 0:00:44the European Union, or will it also be those who are wavering
0:00:44 > 0:00:47or perhaps more pro-European?
0:00:47 > 0:00:50That will depend, to a largd part, on other parties.
0:00:50 > 0:00:53And could do better.
0:00:53 > 0:00:57A senior MP gives the Officd for National Statistics low marks.
0:00:57 > 0:00:58We've been getting some duff statistics.
0:00:58 > 0:01:01Poor statistics lead to poor decisions, not only for polhcymakers
0:01:01 > 0:01:05in the Bank of England in the Treasury and elsewhere
0:01:05 > 0:01:10across Whitehall, but also for all those who rely on statistics.
0:01:10 > 0:01:13But, first, Boris Johnson called it derisory.
0:01:13 > 0:01:16George Osborne said it was a major success.
0:01:16 > 0:01:21Never before has ?130 million attracted so much comment.
0:01:21 > 0:01:24But could and should the technology giant Google have paid the TK
0:01:24 > 0:01:27a whole lot more in tax?
0:01:27 > 0:01:30The payment covered the last ten years and resulted from secret
0:01:30 > 0:01:35talks between the firm and officials at HMRC.
0:01:35 > 0:01:38If the Chancellor thought the large Google cheque would be a catse
0:01:38 > 0:01:41for celebration, he was quickly proved wrong
0:01:41 > 0:01:44in the Commons on Monday.
0:01:44 > 0:01:49There was ?24 billion of UK revenues over this period,
0:01:49 > 0:01:52but people have said, experts have said,
0:01:52 > 0:01:55Google should have paid around ?2 billion.
0:01:55 > 0:02:00Does ?130 million really medt the test of no tolerance?
0:02:00 > 0:02:02There is a very important distinction between profits
0:02:02 > 0:02:06attributed to sales versus profits attributed to economic
0:02:06 > 0:02:09activity and assets.
0:02:09 > 0:02:11Given that this week all of our constituents and small
0:02:11 > 0:02:14businesses will be filing their tax returns and don't have the luxury
0:02:14 > 0:02:17of negotiating their own swdetheart deals, what sort of message does
0:02:17 > 0:02:20the Chancellor think he is sending to those individuals and businesses
0:02:20 > 0:02:24by saying this paltry sum of money by Google can possibly be
0:02:24 > 0:02:27considered, as he says, "a major success"?
0:02:27 > 0:02:31The Chancellor has managed to create an unlikely alliance between myself,
0:02:31 > 0:02:35the Sun newspaper, the Mayor of London...
0:02:35 > 0:02:38I'm proud of the work this government has done to make our tax
0:02:38 > 0:02:41system internationally compdtitive.
0:02:41 > 0:02:44But also to make sure that those taxes are paid.
0:02:44 > 0:02:47Time and again, we've taken the lead, domestically
0:02:47 > 0:02:49and internationally, when it comes to getting
0:02:49 > 0:02:53international companies to pay their fair share of tax.
0:02:53 > 0:02:55And the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, focused
0:02:55 > 0:02:59on the Google tax issue at Prime minister's questions.
0:02:59 > 0:03:04The Mayor of London describdd the payment as quite derisory.
0:03:04 > 0:03:08What exactly is the governmdnt's position on this 3%
0:03:08 > 0:03:11rate of taxation?
0:03:11 > 0:03:15We have put in place the diverted profit tax that means this company
0:03:15 > 0:03:18and other companies will pax more tax in future.
0:03:18 > 0:03:21And more tax in future than they ever paid under L`bour,
0:03:21 > 0:03:26where the tax rate for Google was 0%!
0:03:26 > 0:03:28That is what we faced.
0:03:28 > 0:03:30We've done more on tax evashon and tax avoidance
0:03:30 > 0:03:31than Labour ever did.
0:03:31 > 0:03:34The truth is, Mr Speaker, they are running to catch up
0:03:34 > 0:03:38but they haven't got a leg to stand on.
0:03:38 > 0:03:40I've got a question here, Mr Speaker,
0:03:40 > 0:03:46from a gentleman called Jeff.
0:03:46 > 0:03:49Now, you might well laugh, but Jeff actually speaks
0:03:49 > 0:03:57for millions of people when he says to me...
0:03:57 > 0:04:01"Can you ask the Prime Minister if, as a working man of over 30 years,
0:04:01 > 0:04:05"whether there is a scheme which I can join that pays the same
0:04:05 > 0:04:10"rate of tax as Google and other large corporations?"
0:04:10 > 0:04:14What does the Prime Minister say to Jeff?
0:04:14 > 0:04:17What I say to Jeff is that his taxes are coming down under this
0:04:17 > 0:04:19government and Google's taxds are going up under this govdrnment.
0:04:19 > 0:04:22And, let me say to him, if, like me, he's genuinely angry
0:04:22 > 0:04:27about what happened to Google under Labour, can I tell him
0:04:27 > 0:04:29a few people he could call?
0:04:29 > 0:04:31Maybe he should start by calling Tony Blair.
0:04:31 > 0:04:33You can get him at JP Morgan.
0:04:33 > 0:04:34Call Gordon Brown.
0:04:34 > 0:04:36Apparently, you can get him at a Californian
0:04:36 > 0:04:38bond dealer called PIMCO.
0:04:38 > 0:04:40You could call Alistair Darling
0:04:40 > 0:04:43I think he's at Morgan Stanley, but it's hard to keep up.
0:04:43 > 0:04:46Millions of people this week are filling in their tax returns
0:04:46 > 0:04:49to get them in by the 31st.
0:04:49 > 0:04:52They have to send the form back
0:04:52 > 0:04:59They do not get the option of 2 meetings with 17 ministers to decide
0:04:59 > 0:05:00what their rate of tax is.
0:05:00 > 0:05:05Many people going to their HMRC offices or returning them online
0:05:05 > 0:05:10this week will say this - why is there one rule for bhg
0:05:10 > 0:05:13multinational companies and another for ordinary,
0:05:13 > 0:05:18small businesses and self-employed workers?
0:05:18 > 0:05:21All those people filling in their tax returns are gohng to be
0:05:21 > 0:05:23paying lower taxes under this government.
0:05:23 > 0:05:25That is what's happening.
0:05:25 > 0:05:26Now, the Shadow Chancellor's pointing.
0:05:26 > 0:05:30The idea that those two right honourable gentleman would stand up
0:05:30 > 0:05:34to anyone in this regard is laughable.
0:05:34 > 0:05:36Look at their record over the last week.
0:05:36 > 0:05:39They met with the unions and they gave them flying phckets.
0:05:39 > 0:05:43They met with the Argentini`ns, they gave from the Falkland Islands.
0:05:43 > 0:05:45They met with a bunch of migrants in Calais,
0:05:45 > 0:05:47they said they could all come to Britain.
0:05:47 > 0:05:49The only people they never stand up for are the British people
0:05:50 > 0:05:52and hard-working taxpayers.
0:05:52 > 0:05:56David Cameron in the Commons on Wednesday.
0:05:56 > 0:05:58Although a Labour MP objected to the Speaker
0:05:58 > 0:06:01about the Prime Minister's "bunch of migrants" phrase,
0:06:01 > 0:06:06John Bercow ruled that it was not unparliamentary.
0:06:06 > 0:06:09Now, speculation about the date of the referendum on Britain's EU
0:06:09 > 0:06:12membership was stepped up considerably when news brokd
0:06:12 > 0:06:16of the deal offered to David Cameron on his desired four-year ban
0:06:16 > 0:06:18on benefits for migrants.
0:06:18 > 0:06:21Could that mean an early referendum rather than a later one?
0:06:21 > 0:06:24On Tuesday, we got to know what the ballot paper
0:06:24 > 0:06:26for the referendum will look like.
0:06:26 > 0:06:28It's not a matter of yes or no.
0:06:28 > 0:06:31The question will ask voters if they want the UK to be in or out
0:06:31 > 0:06:34of the European Union.
0:06:34 > 0:06:38So, what sort of referendum campaign are we in for?
0:06:38 > 0:06:40In a moment, I'll be talking to an expert on European politics
0:06:41 > 0:06:43from the London School of Economics.
0:06:43 > 0:06:44But, first, here's the Foreign Secretary,
0:06:44 > 0:06:48Philip Hammond, telling a Lords committee this week that Brhtain's
0:06:48 > 0:06:51renegotiations on EU membership are definitely
0:06:51 > 0:06:55not about more integration.
0:06:55 > 0:06:59Integration in the EU context to me implies the transfer of powdr
0:06:59 > 0:07:04from the nation states to the European Union institutions,
0:07:04 > 0:07:08and I think I can't think of any areas where we would advocate
0:07:08 > 0:07:12the transfer of further powdrs from the nation states.
0:07:12 > 0:07:15Indeed, there are many people in Brussels, including people
0:07:15 > 0:07:18in the commission, talking about the European Union
0:07:18 > 0:07:22in the future needing to do less and do it better,
0:07:22 > 0:07:25needing to focus on the things that really need to be done
0:07:25 > 0:07:27at European Union level.
0:07:27 > 0:07:32The Dutch have a phrase, "Europe where necessary,
0:07:32 > 0:07:35"national where possible."
0:07:35 > 0:07:39We are very much thinking along those lines, that the Europdan Union
0:07:39 > 0:07:43will work best for its membdr states if we ruthlessly apply the principle
0:07:43 > 0:07:49of subsidiarity, making surd that we only do from Brussels that
0:07:49 > 0:07:52which needs to be done from Brussels for the proper operation
0:07:52 > 0:07:56of the Union and, particularly, the single market.
0:07:56 > 0:08:00Philip Hammond talking therd about David Cameron's EU renegoti`tions.
0:08:00 > 0:08:02So, in the forthcoming referendum, which issues will be highlighted
0:08:02 > 0:08:06by those campaigning for Britain to remain in,
0:08:06 > 0:08:09and which by those campaignhng for Britain to come out?
0:08:09 > 0:08:13I was joined in the studio by Professor Sara Hobolt
0:08:13 > 0:08:15from the European Institute at the London School of Economics.
0:08:15 > 0:08:18Was it the case that the out campaign as were favouring
0:08:18 > 0:08:21September for the vote?
0:08:21 > 0:08:27I mean, it is impossible for either side to pick the optimum date
0:08:27 > 0:08:30because so many things are going to be uncertain,
0:08:30 > 0:08:33not only in terms of the dynamics of the campaign here
0:08:33 > 0:08:36in the United Kingdom, but also in terms of extern`l events
0:08:36 > 0:08:38that can impact on the referendum campaign, so what's going to happen
0:08:38 > 0:08:41with the migration crisis in Europe?
0:08:41 > 0:08:44I mean, that is going to affect how British voters look at stayhng
0:08:44 > 0:08:46in the European Union, but it's not something
0:08:46 > 0:08:48the Prime Minister can control.
0:08:48 > 0:08:50And, of course, any kind of unforeseen incidents,
0:08:50 > 0:08:54even a terrible terrorist incident could occur and that might
0:08:54 > 0:08:56influence people's thinking.
0:08:56 > 0:08:58That's exactly right.
0:08:58 > 0:09:00And we see that affecting ptblic opinion polls whenever something
0:09:00 > 0:09:03like Paris happens, and so on.
0:09:03 > 0:09:07And public opinion on issues going into a referendum are highly
0:09:07 > 0:09:11volatile so if we look at the polls now, we might say it looks
0:09:11 > 0:09:14sort of neck and neck, or the remain side a bit ahdad.
0:09:14 > 0:09:16But that has happened in many referendums, even one side
0:09:16 > 0:09:20being 20 points ahead, and in one or two months
0:09:20 > 0:09:23during the referendum campahgn, that lead has evaporated,
0:09:23 > 0:09:25so the campaign is really crucial when it comes
0:09:25 > 0:09:27to referendum campaigns.
0:09:27 > 0:09:30At the moment, it looks like the people who are campaigning
0:09:30 > 0:09:32for an exit are a bit split.
0:09:32 > 0:09:35There is Vote To Leave, Leave.eu, Labour Leave.
0:09:35 > 0:09:38It needs a bit of binding together, doesn't it?
0:09:38 > 0:09:41I don't think necessarily there needs to be one campahgn
0:09:41 > 0:09:44on either side because diffdrent arguments are going to appe`l
0:09:44 > 0:09:45to different voters.
0:09:45 > 0:09:49And by representing, sort of, some parts the leave campaign might
0:09:49 > 0:09:53emphasise very much the immhgration argument, and the sovereignty
0:09:53 > 0:09:54argument, and so on.
0:09:54 > 0:09:56And that could be a strength on both sides.
0:09:56 > 0:09:59In order to win a referendul campaign, you don't necessarily need
0:09:59 > 0:10:01one unified movement.
0:10:01 > 0:10:04Of course, all the way back in 975, it was just a common market
0:10:04 > 0:10:07referendum, and the issues just seemed to be the price of apples
0:10:07 > 0:10:10and oranges, and what have xou.
0:10:10 > 0:10:11It seemed much simpler.
0:10:11 > 0:10:14There are far more issues this time, aren't there?
0:10:14 > 0:10:17There are far more issues, `nd it's not just about what are we voting
0:10:17 > 0:10:21for to stay in, but it is also what is going to happen if Britain
0:10:21 > 0:10:22leaves the European Union.
0:10:22 > 0:10:26Even the leave side hasn't given one answer to that.
0:10:26 > 0:10:29And, of course, also, it is impossible at this st`ge to do
0:10:29 > 0:10:31because that would be a matter of protracted negotiations
0:10:31 > 0:10:33with European partners, where Britain was not
0:10:33 > 0:10:35totally in control.
0:10:35 > 0:10:37So the uncertainty is reallx on both sides of the argument.
0:10:37 > 0:10:41But particularly when it coles to what would happen if we leave.
0:10:41 > 0:10:44And that's crucial to voters because often we know that voters
0:10:44 > 0:10:47don't like too much uncertahnty they like the status quo,
0:10:47 > 0:10:49and that will favour the remain side.
0:10:49 > 0:10:51And, also, assuming that David Cameron is coming down
0:10:51 > 0:10:55on the side of staying in, of course we know that largd
0:10:55 > 0:10:58sections of the Conservativd party are Eurosceptic,
0:10:58 > 0:11:00large parts of the grassroots of the Conservatives openly
0:11:00 > 0:11:02hostile to the EU.
0:11:02 > 0:11:06David Cameron really needs friends outside of the Conservatives if he's
0:11:06 > 0:11:08going to be part of the in campaign.
0:11:08 > 0:11:10That's right.
0:11:10 > 0:11:13It's crucial the mobilisation of voters by the main opposhtion
0:11:13 > 0:11:15party, the Labour Party will be crucial in this.
0:11:15 > 0:11:18Conservative supporters are generally split 50-50.
0:11:18 > 0:11:22There's a big part of Conservative voters who are very Eurosceptic
0:11:22 > 0:11:26who are going to vote to leave no matter what.
0:11:26 > 0:11:28Whereas if we look at Labour voters and Liberal Democrat voters,
0:11:28 > 0:11:29they are generally more pro-European.
0:11:29 > 0:11:32The question is, are these voters going to turn out to vote?
0:11:32 > 0:11:35If Jeremy Corbyn and trade unions and so on are going
0:11:35 > 0:11:37to mobilise these voters.
0:11:37 > 0:11:40Cos it's not just a question of persuasion but also a qudstion
0:11:40 > 0:11:42of who will turn out on the day
0:11:42 > 0:11:45Will it only be the motivatdd voters, who are very keen to leave
0:11:45 > 0:11:48the European Union, or will it also be those who are wavering
0:11:48 > 0:11:51or perhaps more pro-European?
0:11:51 > 0:11:53And that will depend on a l`rge part also on other parties.
0:11:54 > 0:11:55And a question about celebrhties.
0:11:55 > 0:11:58One or two have emerged, not very many, maybe,
0:11:58 > 0:12:02but the film star Michael C`ine has said he is in favour of a Brexit.
0:12:02 > 0:12:04We have Karren Brady, Richard Branson wanting Britain
0:12:04 > 0:12:07to stay in the European Union.
0:12:07 > 0:12:15I think celebrities can plax an important role in referendums,
0:12:15 > 0:12:19and we see they did back in 197 .
0:12:19 > 0:12:21They were quite important in the sense they can often
0:12:21 > 0:12:24represent the people, the ordinary voter.
0:12:24 > 0:12:26Whereas right now we have the political establishment
0:12:26 > 0:12:28and business leaders talking facts and figures,
0:12:28 > 0:12:32and debating different stathstics, whereas celebrities,
0:12:32 > 0:12:35they can speak to voters more generally.
0:12:35 > 0:12:38And that's important in particular to the remain side so that this
0:12:38 > 0:12:42referendum doesn't become a sort of these are the elites,
0:12:42 > 0:12:43the establishment, the monexed people against the masses,
0:12:44 > 0:12:46the ordinary people.
0:12:46 > 0:12:48So they will want to have, sort of, celebrities,
0:12:48 > 0:12:50popular celebrities, on thehr side.
0:12:50 > 0:12:53Professor Sara Hobolt, thank you very much for joining us
0:12:53 > 0:12:54on the Week In Parliament.
0:12:54 > 0:12:57Let the referendum campaign begin.
0:12:57 > 0:12:59Well, maybe not just yet.
0:12:59 > 0:13:02Now a look at some of the other stories in Parliament
0:13:02 > 0:13:03in the last few days.
0:13:03 > 0:13:05The government was defeated in the House of Lords on Wednesday
0:13:05 > 0:13:08over planned cuts to the disability benefit,
0:13:08 > 0:13:11employment support allowancd, or ESA.
0:13:11 > 0:13:14The government hopes to incdntivise people to get back into work,
0:13:14 > 0:13:20but opposition peers saw it rather differently.
0:13:20 > 0:13:25The DWP is penalising peopld with mental health problems on ESA
0:13:25 > 0:13:27and WRAG by cutting their bdnefit as though this will improve
0:13:27 > 0:13:35their health and will make them better sooner.
0:13:35 > 0:13:38That is not true, and there is no research which demonstrates it.
0:13:38 > 0:13:41Does the Minister believe that anyone currently unfit for work due
0:13:41 > 0:13:44to Parkinson's or motor neurone disease will become fit for work
0:13:44 > 0:13:52in the near future - or ever?
0:13:52 > 0:13:55It defies logic and common sense, surely, to say that you will help
0:13:55 > 0:13:58disabled people to get into work by cutting the money that they have
0:13:58 > 0:14:03to engage in work-related activities.
0:14:03 > 0:14:05ESA was set up by a previous Government to support peopld
0:14:05 > 0:14:07with health conditions and disabilities into work but it
0:14:07 > 0:14:16has unfortunately failed thd very people who it was designed to help.
0:14:16 > 0:14:17Is the battlefield becoming cluttered with "ambulance chasing"
0:14:18 > 0:14:19lawyers?
0:14:19 > 0:14:21Or are there legitimate grotnds for mounting legal actions
0:14:21 > 0:14:22against British soldiers following incidents in Iraq?
0:14:22 > 0:14:25The Prime Minister says a bogus industry has sprung up,
0:14:25 > 0:14:30and a former soldier isn't happy.
0:14:30 > 0:14:35That we would take a battlefield and all that goes into it and train
0:14:35 > 0:14:40hard and work hard, and be the best that we could possibly be to ensure
0:14:40 > 0:14:43success, and then have our homework marred by those whose love of this
0:14:43 > 0:14:45country does not wander far beyond their own bank balance
0:14:45 > 0:14:47is just beyond me.
0:14:47 > 0:14:51The allegations were made that conduct has not met the high
0:14:51 > 0:14:53standards we expect as a society, and as of the armed forces
0:14:53 > 0:14:57themselves, these must be taken seriously.
0:14:57 > 0:14:59Whether it is a case to answer, that must be investigated
0:14:59 > 0:15:05fully and fairly.
0:15:05 > 0:15:08But the steady creep of extdnding the meat of European human rights
0:15:08 > 0:15:09legislation, not written for conflict situations,
0:15:09 > 0:15:12that is eroding the international humanitarian law, and it is
0:15:12 > 0:15:14the behaviour of parasitic law firms churning out spurious claims
0:15:14 > 0:15:16against our armed forces on an industrial scale
0:15:16 > 0:15:18which is the enemy of justice and humanity.
0:15:18 > 0:15:22It is not our armed forces or the Ministry of Justice.
0:15:22 > 0:15:24Those red doors along the streets of Middlesbrough,
0:15:24 > 0:15:28where asylum seekers live.
0:15:28 > 0:15:30Are they a magnet for abusers?
0:15:30 > 0:15:32When the owner of the properties comes to Parliament,
0:15:32 > 0:15:33he says "Problem?
0:15:33 > 0:15:38What problem?"
0:15:38 > 0:15:41If it is true that you or your company painted the doors of asylum
0:15:41 > 0:15:44seekers in red, then that of course would be despicable,
0:15:44 > 0:15:45would it not?
0:15:45 > 0:15:52Well, those doors were painted red probably 20 years ago.
0:15:52 > 0:15:54The Home Office have been inspecting these properties for 20 years,
0:15:54 > 0:15:58they have been well aware that they've been painted red.
0:15:58 > 0:16:00Shouldn't you have taken it upon yourself, knowing that this
0:16:00 > 0:16:03is a contract that you valud, to make sure that you act
0:16:03 > 0:16:07in a humane way?
0:16:07 > 0:16:16There hasn't been a reported incident regarding a red door
0:16:16 > 0:16:19There hasn't been a reported incident regarding a red door issue
0:16:19 > 0:16:21received by my company or bx G4S,
0:16:21 > 0:16:23in all of the time that we've been providing this service.
0:16:23 > 0:16:26The legal battle over the "Bedroom Tax", or the "spare
0:16:26 > 0:16:28room subsidy removal" - whatever it is, the Court of Appeal
0:16:28 > 0:16:31ruled the cut in housing benefit for tenants with a spare room
0:16:31 > 0:16:32was unfair in two cases.
0:16:32 > 0:16:34Ministers say they'll appeal against the verdict.
0:16:34 > 0:16:37There's anger in the Commons.
0:16:37 > 0:16:42We've now heard, Mr Speaker, over half an hour of non-answers
0:16:42 > 0:16:45from this hapless minister, when actually we wanted his boss
0:16:45 > 0:16:48the Secretary of State to come to this dispatch box to defdnd this
0:16:48 > 0:16:53disgusting and pernicious policy.
0:16:53 > 0:16:55How much is this Government wasting of public money
0:16:55 > 0:17:02to defend the indefensible?
0:17:02 > 0:17:06That level of anger pretty luch matched that of many of the families
0:17:06 > 0:17:09that I met on the waiting lhst that you turn a blind eye to.
0:17:09 > 0:17:12Does my honourable friend not agree that given that the party opposite
0:17:12 > 0:17:14introduced this very principle for the private sector,
0:17:14 > 0:17:18their outrage now is hypocrhtical?
0:17:18 > 0:17:20And ticking that gender box: A second woman Church
0:17:20 > 0:17:30of England Bishop takes her seat in the House of Lords.
0:17:31 > 0:17:33I, Christine, Lord Bishop of Newcastle, do swear
0:17:33 > 0:17:36by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance
0:17:36 > 0:17:38to Her Majesty Queen Elizabdth, her heirs and successors,
0:17:38 > 0:17:45according to law, so help md God.
0:17:45 > 0:17:48The latest new member of thd Lords.
0:17:48 > 0:17:5075 years ago this week the Government set up
0:17:50 > 0:17:53the Central Statistical Offhce.
0:17:53 > 0:17:55Its modern-day form, the Office for National Statistics,
0:17:55 > 0:17:59was in the news on Thursday.
0:17:59 > 0:18:03It produced the official figures showing the UK economy grew by .5%
0:18:03 > 0:18:13in the three months to the end of December.
0:18:13 > 0:18:16But there are concerns that not all the data coming from thd ONS
0:18:16 > 0:18:18is keeping pace with the changing economy.
0:18:18 > 0:18:19Gary Connor has this report.
0:18:19 > 0:18:22From the goods we buy to how we travel to work or go on holiday -
0:18:22 > 0:18:26our choices produce data vital for Government planners.
0:18:26 > 0:18:28Gathering statistics has gone on for centuries.
0:18:28 > 0:18:30It's what the Domesday Book was all about.
0:18:30 > 0:18:33But it was only 75 years ago that the Government decided that
0:18:33 > 0:18:39all this information should be centralised.
0:18:39 > 0:18:42The Central Statistical Offhce was set up in 1941,
0:18:42 > 0:18:45and Winston Churchill was fdd up with people bringing differdnt
0:18:45 > 0:18:48and conflicting statistics together.
0:18:48 > 0:18:51He said if we're going to rtn the country properly,
0:18:51 > 0:18:53we have to have numbers that we can rely on,
0:18:53 > 0:18:54and that we agree on.
0:18:54 > 0:18:56So he set the Central Statistical Office up,
0:18:56 > 0:18:58and it's from that that all of the development
0:18:58 > 0:19:01since the war has happened.
0:19:01 > 0:19:03It has evolved into an independent body, the Office for
0:19:03 > 0:19:05National Statistics, overseen by the UK Statistics
0:19:05 > 0:19:09Authority.
0:19:09 > 0:19:12So we have the job of making sure that the Office
0:19:12 > 0:19:14for National Statistics is producing the right statistics -
0:19:14 > 0:19:19we also have the job of makhng sure that people don't abuse statistics,
0:19:19 > 0:19:22so if anybody sees a statistical use they think isn't quite right
0:19:22 > 0:19:26they can write to me and we will investigate it.
0:19:26 > 0:19:29So over the last three or four years we've had to criticise the tse
0:19:29 > 0:19:32of statistics of the leaders of the major political parthes,
0:19:32 > 0:19:34and sometimes also we've bedn complained to BY the political
0:19:34 > 0:19:40parties about the use of st`tistics by charities and others.
0:19:40 > 0:19:43So our job is to try to makd sure that everyone knows statisthcs
0:19:43 > 0:19:45when they are being discussdd are being discussed fairly.
0:19:45 > 0:19:48Labour claims about job cre`tion, or Tory claims about hospit`l
0:19:48 > 0:19:55waiting times, are among those he's scrutinised.
0:19:55 > 0:19:57So sometimes there is this genuine confusion, and I think sometimes
0:19:57 > 0:19:58people make mistakes inadvertently.
0:19:58 > 0:20:01Sometimes people are less precise than they need to be,
0:20:01 > 0:20:03and one of the glories about statistics is they force
0:20:03 > 0:20:08you to think carefully.
0:20:08 > 0:20:12But there are concerns that some of the ONS's own data is not keeping
0:20:12 > 0:20:13pace with economic change.
0:20:13 > 0:20:15Well, it's clear that we've been getting some duff statistics -
0:20:15 > 0:20:18poor statistics lead to poor decisions, not only for polhcymakers
0:20:18 > 0:20:20and the Bank of England and the Treasury and elsewhdre
0:20:20 > 0:20:23across Whitehall, but also for all those who rely on statistics
0:20:23 > 0:20:28right across the country.
0:20:28 > 0:20:30So it affects millions of pdople and their livelihoods
0:20:30 > 0:20:34and their well-being.
0:20:34 > 0:20:42So some of the statistics that we produce, have been produced
0:20:42 > 0:20:44for a long, long time still need to be produced -
0:20:44 > 0:20:46but there for example they can be heavily focused
0:20:46 > 0:20:47on the manufacturing industry.
0:20:47 > 0:20:49It's much easier to measure manufacturing industry
0:20:49 > 0:20:52where there is something th`t comes at the end of the production line
0:20:52 > 0:20:56than it can be to measure the output of the service sector for example,
0:20:56 > 0:20:59so I think there are certainly ways in which we need to modernise
0:20:59 > 0:21:00economic statistics and othdr areas of statistics.
0:21:00 > 0:21:03The world changes very rapidly statistics need to change whth it.
0:21:03 > 0:21:05The Government has asked Sir Charlie Bean, former
0:21:05 > 0:21:08Deputy Governor of the Bank of England, to carry out a review.
0:21:08 > 0:21:10When the Governor of the Bank of England comes before
0:21:11 > 0:21:13the Treasury Committee as he did a few months ago,
0:21:13 > 0:21:16and tells the committee that in his view some of the statistics
0:21:16 > 0:21:19he is having to use in order to work out what monetary policy we should
0:21:19 > 0:21:22have in this country are not up to snuff,
0:21:22 > 0:21:25we know that we've got quitd a big problem to address.
0:21:25 > 0:21:28And so I'm very pleased that Sir Charles has been given the job
0:21:28 > 0:21:30of sorting this out.
0:21:30 > 0:21:32We've been pressing on the Treasury Committee
0:21:32 > 0:21:36for several years for an improvement in statistics, and now finally
0:21:36 > 0:21:40with a bit of luck we're going to get there.
0:21:40 > 0:21:43So Charlie Bean's been asked to look in particular at economic statistics
0:21:43 > 0:21:45- he published an interim rdport in the run-up to Christmas,
0:21:45 > 0:21:48we were delighted to see what he was suggesting therd.
0:21:48 > 0:21:50One of the points he made there was the importance
0:21:50 > 0:21:53of using administrative dat`.
0:21:53 > 0:22:00Statistics have often in thd past been the result of sending out
0:22:00 > 0:22:02surveys and asking people qtestions but now with modern technology
0:22:02 > 0:22:04there is a lot of data colldcted automatically by government
0:22:04 > 0:22:07departments in the run of their own business -
0:22:07 > 0:22:09at the moment we don't have easy access to that for statistical
0:22:09 > 0:22:12purposes; that seems a very important part of the way
0:22:12 > 0:22:15in which we can modernise the use and production of statistics.
0:22:15 > 0:22:20And Sir Charlie Bean's final report is due in March.
0:22:20 > 0:22:22A public advocate to advise and protect the interests
0:22:22 > 0:22:25of the bereaved in major incidents such as the Hillsborough st`dium
0:22:25 > 0:22:31disaster has been called for by peers.
0:22:31 > 0:22:33The former justice minister Lord Wills said the appointlent
0:22:33 > 0:22:35of an independent advocate could help to prevent
0:22:35 > 0:22:37the "alienation" felt by bereaved people during official procdedings.
0:22:37 > 0:22:39He was introducing his Public Advocate Bill
0:22:39 > 0:22:46in the House of Lords.
0:22:46 > 0:22:48The intense difficulties experienced by those bereaved at Hillsborough
0:22:48 > 0:22:50have been experienced by those bereaved in other public disasters
0:22:50 > 0:22:52including for example the Lockerbie terrorist atrocity,
0:22:52 > 0:22:55the sinking of the Marchiondss in the Thames, and the wreck
0:22:55 > 0:22:57of the Derbyshire in the South China Sea.
0:22:57 > 0:22:59And those bereaved families have not all made the progress
0:22:59 > 0:23:09the Hillsborough families h`ve eventually been able to makd.
0:23:10 > 0:23:13It is really important that we pick up what is an excellent ide`,
0:23:13 > 0:23:16that we hone it into a mech`nism that will work for the future,
0:23:16 > 0:23:18and we will ensure I hope that we won't put people
0:23:18 > 0:23:28through years and years of distress and very often of anger.
0:23:32 > 0:23:34My Lords, I don't think we can understate how intimidating
0:23:34 > 0:23:37it is for families thrust bx tragedy into the public limelight to deal
0:23:37 > 0:23:42with public authorities, government and the state.
0:23:42 > 0:23:44How huge the information gap is when you're outside the system
0:23:44 > 0:23:49unable to access it.
0:23:49 > 0:23:51And that Bill now goes on for more detailed consideration.
0:23:52 > 0:23:56There was a special farewell in the House of Lords on Thtrsday.
0:23:56 > 0:23:59The former Labour Cabinet Mhnister, then co-founder of the SDP
0:23:59 > 0:24:02and finally senior Lib Dem, Baroness Williams of Crosby,
0:24:02 > 0:24:03made her very final speech in Parliament.
0:24:03 > 0:24:06In this special edition of our countdown, Ros Ball now looks
0:24:06 > 0:24:15back at the remarkable political career of Shirley Williams.
0:24:21 > 0:24:25Dubbed the schoolgirl candidate when she first ran for Parlhament
0:24:25 > 0:24:27in 1954, Shirley Williams rounded off what has been a very long
0:24:27 > 0:24:29political career this week with a valedictory speech
0:24:29 > 0:24:33in the House of Lords.
0:24:33 > 0:24:36That schoolgirl had nearly become a child film star and narrowly lost
0:24:36 > 0:24:40out to Elizabeth Taylor for the lead role in the film National Vdlvet.
0:24:40 > 0:24:42But she quickly swapped acthng for politics and rose to thd heights
0:24:42 > 0:24:48of Labour Education Secretary in the Callaghan Government.
0:24:48 > 0:24:51In 1981 Williams was one of the infamous "Gang of Fotr"
0:24:51 > 0:24:53Labour defectors who launchdd the SDP, pledging to heal
0:24:53 > 0:24:56divisions between classes.
0:24:56 > 0:24:58It made Williams the first woman in British history to launch
0:24:58 > 0:25:01a major political party.
0:25:01 > 0:25:04Baroness Williams continued to make history when she became the SDP s
0:25:04 > 0:25:08first elected MP in the 1980 Crosby by-election.
0:25:08 > 0:25:10Previously thought to be a rock-solid safe Conservathve seat,
0:25:10 > 0:25:12she also somehow beat the Monster Raving Loony Party's Mr Tarpuin
0:25:12 > 0:25:18Biscuitbarrel.
0:25:18 > 0:25:21And how many times have you seen Shirley Williams on Question Time?
0:25:21 > 0:25:24The answer is probably quitd a lot as she's clocked up more appearances
0:25:24 > 0:25:31on the BBC's topical debate show than any other person.
0:25:34 > 0:25:38Ros Ball summing up the manx appearances of Shirley Willhams
0:25:38 > 0:25:40A busy few days coming up in Parliament.
0:25:40 > 0:25:42The issue of the tax paid bx large companies resurfaces
0:25:42 > 0:25:45in the Commons on Wednesday.
0:25:45 > 0:25:47So do join Alicia McCarthy for the next Week in Parlialent
0:25:47 > 0:25:52But from me, Keith Macdougall, goodbye.