:00:19. > :00:20.Hello and Welcome to the Week In Parliament.
:00:21. > :00:23.A setback for the Government, as the Lords gives the Brexit
:00:24. > :00:31.Peers demand guarantees for EU nationals in Britain.
:00:32. > :00:36.These people are not bargaining chips. When we say take your
:00:37. > :00:40.children out of the schools, we would say to the elderly, please go
:00:41. > :00:44.away from our care homes. These amendments are at the wrong time n
:00:45. > :00:50.the wrong bill, on the wrong subject. Peers make their mark in a
:00:51. > :00:54.week when a TV documentary discloses what life is really like in the
:00:55. > :01:02.House of Lords. Complete with its rather odd ceremonies. Visitors from
:01:03. > :01:08.overseas go to watch the Changing of the Guard. People do like these
:01:09. > :01:14.quaintnesses. And if so, in whose interest is it to take them away?
:01:15. > :01:19.Snappy dresser and long served parliamentarian, tributes are paid
:01:20. > :01:26.to the late Sir Gerald Kaufman He was an iconic figure in the Labour
:01:27. > :01:30.Party. He loved marmalade. So he was made marmalade ice cream. First,
:01:31. > :01:34.just doing their job or causing needless interference? Peers made
:01:35. > :01:40.sure the untouched Brexit bill got well and truly damaged and will have
:01:41. > :01:43.to return to the Commons. On Wednesday night, the Lords voted by
:01:44. > :01:47.a majority of more than 100 for the inclusion of a guarantee of rights
:01:48. > :01:53.for European Union nationals living and working in the UK ministers
:01:54. > :01:59.don't want it in the bill, whose full tielt is the EU notification of
:02:00. > :02:02.withdrawal bill. The red benches of the Lords were packed for a
:02:03. > :02:10.three-hour debate. In the end, this is a matter of
:02:11. > :02:14.principal. This House can in fact make decision and give a unilateral
:02:15. > :02:27.guarantee. And my Lords, that is what we should do. Let us all
:02:28. > :02:31.remember how shocked we were when Armeen expelled the Ugandas. So
:02:32. > :02:38.shocked we offered them refuge in this country. As we've had over
:02:39. > :02:44.three million people live in this country who are European nations.
:02:45. > :02:47.They are not experiences anxious, it is their family member, irtheir
:02:48. > :02:52.employers, their neighbours. It is quite clear to everyone in this
:02:53. > :02:57.House that there is no chance that Parliament would approve the
:02:58. > :03:00.expulsion of EU citizens legally resident in this country. No way.
:03:01. > :03:07.This is understood by the Government. This amendment has no
:03:08. > :03:14.place in this bill. Whatever. These people need to know now, not in 12
:03:15. > :03:18.months' time. They simply cannot put their lives on hold. Some are
:03:19. > :03:24.planning schools for their children. They are moving jobs, renting or
:03:25. > :03:32.buying a home or acting as carers. I think that the Government ought to
:03:33. > :03:36.accept that the weight of opinion is in favour of that unilateral
:03:37. > :03:39.guarantee which will trigger similar rights for Britons abroad. What has
:03:40. > :03:43.changed is the Prime Minister has said, it is our first priority.
:03:44. > :03:48.She's said that the fate of those people living in this country from
:03:49. > :03:51.Europe will be determined by primary legislation and that no change will
:03:52. > :03:53.be made other than with the agreement of the other place and
:03:54. > :03:58.this House. That is good enough for me. Not to wish to amend a bill
:03:59. > :04:03.which prevents us, which allows us to get on with the process of thak
:04:04. > :04:09.making that happen. -- of making that happen. These people are not
:04:10. > :04:15.bargaining chips. If we say they are free to stay, that does give them
:04:16. > :04:18.moral high ground to our Government in its negotiations. Why is
:04:19. > :04:24.everybody here today so excited about an amendment which looks after
:04:25. > :04:30.the foreigners and not the British? It's true. Quite right.
:04:31. > :04:35.I would like to point out to the noble Lord the reason the amendment
:04:36. > :04:37.is structured as it is, is we are conscious of the powers of the
:04:38. > :04:42.British Government and the British Government is able to determine the
:04:43. > :04:46.lives of the EU citizens resident in this country, but we are not able to
:04:47. > :04:51.determine the lives of our own citizens abroad. Of course we don't
:04:52. > :04:56.have the power to do, to look after our citizens overseas. Not in these
:04:57. > :05:02.days when we don't have many gunboats. If, as I do, want to see
:05:03. > :05:08.there is this decision that the Government takes on behalf of all of
:05:09. > :05:12.us, citizenship should be given a guarantee to remain, the best way to
:05:13. > :05:17.do it is to call the bluff of Angela Merkel. This is a matter of
:05:18. > :05:20.principal. It is a simple matter of principal of being prepared to do
:05:21. > :05:24.the right thing because it is the right thing and being prepared to
:05:25. > :05:28.say so. And that is what I hope these benches and members on all
:05:29. > :05:32.sides of the House, not all members, but members on all sides of the
:05:33. > :05:38.House, including the Bishop's bench, will be prepared to do when it comes
:05:39. > :05:43.to taking the vote. These amendments are at the wrong
:05:44. > :05:47.time n the wrong bill, on the wrong subject and we should support the
:05:48. > :05:54.rights of British citizens living in Europe.
:05:55. > :05:58.But at the end of the debate, peers voted for the Labour-led amendment
:05:59. > :06:02.against the Government. They have voted contents, 358. No contents,
:06:03. > :06:14.256. So the contents have it. And the Brexit bill will see more
:06:15. > :06:20.debate in the Lords in the next few days, with more upsets, a distinct
:06:21. > :06:26.possibility. Well, with public interest in the Upper House more
:06:27. > :06:32.than it usually it, there was a TV series showing what goes on in the
:06:33. > :06:35.Lord's. Meet the Lord's on BBC Two, Monday evening, is the latest
:06:36. > :06:39.documentary to show life behind the scenes at the posh end of the Palace
:06:40. > :06:44.of Westminster. Is it giving a fair picture? We will talk to two experts
:06:45. > :06:48.in a moment. First, let's get a brief reminder of last Monday's
:06:49. > :06:54.initial instalment of Meet The Lords.
:06:55. > :07:02.Lord Palmer is doing some lobbying of his own. This used to be our
:07:03. > :07:07.television room, which I had the most lovely comfortable chairs in
:07:08. > :07:11.it. To watch big sporting events like Wimbledon or Cheltenham races
:07:12. > :07:15.or whatever. And I came in here the other day and was amazed to find it
:07:16. > :07:19.had been turned into an office, as you know, we are very, very short of
:07:20. > :07:25.space and a lot of the new members do want a desk. I have never, ever
:07:26. > :07:28.seen these desks occupied, which does seem really rather
:07:29. > :07:32.extraordinary and I actually put down a written question about this.
:07:33. > :07:39.Why has the television room closed down? Will there be an alternative
:07:40. > :07:44.venue? I was told, no there will not be an alternative venue.
:07:45. > :07:46.So, that was a clip from the first programme, in the Meet The Lords
:07:47. > :07:51.series. The second programme is coming up on Monday. Now, two years
:07:52. > :07:54.ago there was a similar TV documentary, a series of programmes
:07:55. > :07:58.all about the House of Commons. It was called inside the Commons. Here
:07:59. > :08:05.to talk about both documentaries we have two people who might well be
:08:06. > :08:13.called parliamentary insiders. Sir David Bemish has been chief of Clark
:08:14. > :08:18.in the House of Lords. And we have the chief of the House of Commons.
:08:19. > :08:23.What did you make of meet the Lord's? Did you enjoy the programme?
:08:24. > :08:28.I enjoyed it. I wished it could have been more representative. Behind the
:08:29. > :08:33.flummery, there was some good stories that did show the House
:08:34. > :08:38.doing its job, which, at the moment, was Brexit going on is very much in
:08:39. > :08:43.the public eye. I was delighted the public have an opportunity to see
:08:44. > :08:47.that for themselves. Did it convey the House of Lords that you know? I
:08:48. > :08:51.don't think it was exactly a cross-section. For example, the clip
:08:52. > :08:55.we have just seen of Lord Palmer, I don't think you would find many
:08:56. > :08:59.peers who share his view about the TV room. It was a little used
:09:00. > :09:03.facility. As he said, we did need the space. Other parts of it,
:09:04. > :09:07.absolutely. Some of the characters you saw, the ones I know well and
:09:08. > :09:12.the kind of work that goesen oh, particularly in relation to a-- that
:09:13. > :09:17.goes on, particularly in relation to ill bills. Two years ago -- to
:09:18. > :09:20.bills. Two years ago, the documentary about the inside of the
:09:21. > :09:24.Commons. There was a lot of resistance about that. The
:09:25. > :09:28.documentary maker had to apply many, many times for permission to get in
:09:29. > :09:36.with the cameras. Were you in favour of it being made? Once a good
:09:37. > :09:39.proposition came forward and we knew about the privacy staff, then I was
:09:40. > :09:44.happy about it. When it went out, were you pleased? I think the
:09:45. > :09:50.general reaction of the membership of the House, but more importantly,
:09:51. > :09:55.because this was for who it was made, the public. It was positive.
:09:56. > :09:58.That pleased members. Because they felt there were bits in it that
:09:59. > :10:03.showed them in the light they would want to be seen. The work of
:10:04. > :10:06.individual members pursuing causes, sometimes with success, sometimes
:10:07. > :10:11.with not. So their constituents were saying to them, gosh, I had no idea
:10:12. > :10:14.this went on in the House of Commons, or in the same token in the
:10:15. > :10:17.House of Lords, presumably. And therefore it is educational. You
:10:18. > :10:21.have mentioned constituents, it is an interesting point. Members of the
:10:22. > :10:25.House of Lords don't have constituents and don't have any
:10:26. > :10:28.constituencies to go back to. That provides a different basis entirely.
:10:29. > :10:32.In a sense it is not so important what the public makes of the House
:10:33. > :10:38.of Lords, on that basis. We've never thought of it that way. As the
:10:39. > :10:42.unelected second chamber, ensuring that they play a complimentary role
:10:43. > :10:46.to the Commons that is appreciated outside is a little bit of a
:10:47. > :10:50.balancing act and again Brexit provides a good example. We know
:10:51. > :10:54.that the Commons will be considering at least one amendment from the
:10:55. > :10:58.Lords, if the Commons reject it, the House will have to decide whether to
:10:59. > :11:08.take it further and plainly the House, to be useful, needs to
:11:09. > :11:11.command respectability. People are not knowledgeable about the House of
:11:12. > :11:15.Lords. What do you think they will feel at the end of the documentary -
:11:16. > :11:21.will it make them more informed or they might think this is a quirky,
:11:22. > :11:25.eccentric place? I am less placed to view than the viewers. I feel
:11:26. > :11:28.optimistic they will feel better informed. Some of the work that is
:11:29. > :11:32.shown is not what members of the public normally get to see. They
:11:33. > :11:36.will have a better idea of the valuable work that's going on all
:11:37. > :11:41.the time, that's not front of house, so to speak. I suppose, in one sense
:11:42. > :11:50.you can take what you want, if you want to think of it an eccentric
:11:51. > :11:54.place - there were one or two aristocratic shotses and there were
:11:55. > :12:00.shots trying to brief a lot of fresh air in the place. In a sense you can
:12:01. > :12:05.see what you want? It would have given the public a more clearer view
:12:06. > :12:10.of the diversity of the Lords, in terms of the membership and the
:12:11. > :12:14.seriousness in which they approach their legislative tasks. You two are
:12:15. > :12:18.great specialists in your own Houses. It is said in Westminster
:12:19. > :12:22.there is a lack of knowledge about each other's Houses? Was it
:12:23. > :12:27.interesting to see how the other House lives? Yes. I wouldn't say
:12:28. > :12:31.there were many surprises. I knew some of the characters being
:12:32. > :12:36.portrayed. Some quite well. And I don't think anything came to me as a
:12:37. > :12:41.surprise. Obviously, we know our own House better. We do share a
:12:42. > :12:50.building. We are not married, but we do co-hab it. -- co--habit. There is
:12:51. > :12:54.concern that members don't know enough about them. I think I would
:12:55. > :12:58.say at senior staff level that is not the case and David and I work
:12:59. > :13:04.closely together on all sorts of things. I don't think there are any
:13:05. > :13:10.surprises, although I did find inside the Commons very instruckive.
:13:11. > :13:13.In meet the Lord's we saw the ceremony for introducing new peers,
:13:14. > :13:17.the procession at the start of each day and the garter king of arms.
:13:18. > :13:21.This would have struck the general public as being quite remarkable
:13:22. > :13:26.bits of flummery and tradition. Do you think some of it could go? Some
:13:27. > :13:32.should be dispensed with? Or should we hang on to these little show
:13:33. > :13:40.pieces? I think it is really up to the public to express a view on
:13:41. > :13:44.that. It sometimes surprises me how popular these ancient traditions
:13:45. > :13:47.are. The State Opening of Parliament is the most striking example is
:13:48. > :13:54.widely covered. Visitors from overseas go to watch the Changing of
:13:55. > :13:58.the Guard or the beefeaters. I think people do like these quaintnesses
:13:59. > :14:03.and if so, in whose interest is it to take them away? Does it sit well
:14:04. > :14:08.in a 21st century Parliament? I think some of the ceremonies are
:14:09. > :14:12.fine. If the people taking part are happy and if there's no reason that
:14:13. > :14:17.it believes it does any harm, then there's no need to challenge them
:14:18. > :14:22.all. I think it is sometimes worth questioning them and then working
:14:23. > :14:27.out why we do them and whether they are in anyway detracting from,
:14:28. > :14:32.particularly in detracting from making either House more accessible
:14:33. > :14:35.to the public or less efficient. To wrap everything up, coming to the
:14:36. > :14:39.business of TV documentaries, is it better to let the cameras in, warts
:14:40. > :14:43.and all, or is it better to keep them out? I don't think there's any
:14:44. > :14:48.doubt about that. It would look very odd if we were not willing to let
:14:49. > :14:53.the taxpayers who enable us to operate to look inside. Incidentally
:14:54. > :14:57.Meet The Lords was not the first Lords experience of this sort of
:14:58. > :15:01.thing. Over my career, the BBC have been involved in three different
:15:02. > :15:07.documentary series. So we have been looked at before. And indeed we were
:15:08. > :15:10.head of the Commons by four years on allowing all our proceedings to be
:15:11. > :15:16.televised. I am clear, we ought to allow this sort of thing.
:15:17. > :15:20.Absolutely. All the proceedings should be televised and available as
:15:21. > :15:23.they all are now. It is a fair question on warts and all. Some of
:15:24. > :15:26.the warts may be, for example, staff, who I don't want to see
:15:27. > :15:31.exposed on television. That is not what they joined for. You have to be
:15:32. > :15:35.protective. In terms of documentaries, absolutely. And
:15:36. > :15:41.indeed we are in the middle now of a further documentary series on the
:15:42. > :15:47.Elizabeth Tower, known to many as Big Ben, which is being restored and
:15:48. > :15:50.rehabilitated. Channel 4 will be doing a three-part programme on this
:15:51. > :15:53.and they will come out in the course of the year, showing about the clock
:15:54. > :15:58.tower and about the work that's done on it. It is being done with public
:15:59. > :16:02.money in the name of the public. Why not let them see that? Thanks very
:16:03. > :16:08.much for joining us on the programme. And the second edition of
:16:09. > :16:13.Meet The Lords, BBC Two, on Monday evening.
:16:14. > :16:18.Well, worth watching. Time for a round-up of debates in Parliament.
:16:19. > :16:24.On wents, Jeremy Corbyn demanded to know why ministers were refusing to
:16:25. > :16:27.make benefits available to those with mental health conditions.
:16:28. > :16:32.Theresa May said the Government wasn't cutting benefits and said
:16:33. > :16:35.no-one would see a reduction from the benefit already awarded to them.
:16:36. > :16:39.But the Labour leader said the decision of the Government ignored a
:16:40. > :16:44.court judgment. The reality is this is a shameful
:16:45. > :16:52.decision that will affect people with dementia. Those suffering
:16:53. > :16:56.disorders due to a stroke, military veterans with post post-traumatic
:16:57. > :17:00.stress disorder and those can schizophrenia. Can she look at the
:17:01. > :17:03.effects of her decision to override what an independent court has
:17:04. > :17:07.decided and think again? What the court said was the regulations were
:17:08. > :17:12.unclear. That is why we are clarifying the regulations and we
:17:13. > :17:18.are ensuring that they respect that they reflect the original intention
:17:19. > :17:21.that was agreed by this Parliament. As the doping investigation
:17:22. > :17:25.continues into British cycling, do some big representations in the
:17:26. > :17:29.sport lie in at thors? Damning evidence is given to the culture and
:17:30. > :17:32.sport committee about the absence of any record-keeping into what was
:17:33. > :17:36.given to riders and when it was given. The extent of our
:17:37. > :17:46.investigation is confined to this particular race, for which there are
:17:47. > :17:50.zero records by Dr Freeman. What about this woeful lack of record
:17:51. > :17:54.keeping? We haven't had an excuse from them. There is an
:17:55. > :18:02.acknowledgement there was no policy and no records. That is it. And the
:18:03. > :18:06.sky team? They did have a policy. Not everybody was adhering to it.
:18:07. > :18:12.Could the cost of car insurance be about to soar? Following changes by
:18:13. > :18:17.the Lord Chancellor to the size of personal injury payments? The
:18:18. > :18:23.Transport Committee finds motor s could be -- motor unionists could be
:18:24. > :18:34.facing higher prices. As you pointed out, it will add significant cost to
:18:35. > :18:38.the cost of drivers'. You have a petition of 180,000 people who
:18:39. > :18:42.indicated their concern at the cost of car insurance, I think all of the
:18:43. > :18:47.market estimates that have been put out over the last 24 hours would
:18:48. > :18:51.indicate that the Lord Chancellor's decision yesterday is going to make
:18:52. > :18:56.car insurance for young drivers sky rocket. So people paying ?4,000. You
:18:57. > :19:01.say that could be ?5,000? That was the estimate. So, yes. How do get
:19:02. > :19:10.more of us to take the bus. The bus services bill gives the new directly
:19:11. > :19:13.elected mayors in the city regions the responsibleability to run
:19:14. > :19:17.services. Why -- responsibility to run services. Look at the wards and
:19:18. > :19:23.in four of the last five years it has been won by a mew nis pal bus
:19:24. > :19:28.operators. They are not the answer. I would not expect every local
:19:29. > :19:33.authority to set one up. Why not let local authorities decide what is
:19:34. > :19:36.best for them? It is a point of difference between us. We do not
:19:37. > :19:42.want to go back to the situation where every Labour council tries to
:19:43. > :19:45.set up its own bus company. It will absorb capital which could be wisely
:19:46. > :19:49.used elsewhere. After electoral success, it is on to Westminster.
:19:50. > :19:53.The winners of the two February by-elections take their seats in the
:19:54. > :19:59.Commons. Firstly the new Stoke Labour MP
:20:00. > :20:04.Gareth Snell. I will be faithful and bear allegiance... And then in the
:20:05. > :20:08.all together louder atmosphere of the Wednesday lunch time, the new
:20:09. > :20:15.Copeland Conservative, Trudy Harrison.
:20:16. > :20:20.Reaching new heights was this MP out of order? A Labour opponent thought
:20:21. > :20:25.Jacob Rees-Mogg might have been guilty of sizism. Possibly. This
:20:26. > :20:31.week, the member for North East Somerset was in my constituency. And
:20:32. > :20:35.to his credit he did inform me he was going there as a fundraiser. I
:20:36. > :20:42.offered to go with him. He rejected my advances. Today, I opened the
:20:43. > :20:50.local paper to read he described the pygmy nature of the opposition, does
:20:51. > :20:53.the Deputy Speaker think that the term pygmy is appropriate while
:20:54. > :21:03.standing in the constituency of the shortest MP? There will be a quiet
:21:04. > :21:06.word in his ear. Tributes were paid throughout the week to the father of
:21:07. > :21:14.the house, Gerald Kaufman, who has died at the age of 86. A former BBC
:21:15. > :21:22.sketchwriter and an adviser to Harold Wilson he was a Labour MP
:21:23. > :21:26.since 1970. We look back on an eventful career. Junior minister in
:21:27. > :21:33.the 1970s. Can Gerald Kaufman's book, how to be a minister was
:21:34. > :21:37.reading for ambitious MPs. He fought his party's move to the left.
:21:38. > :21:43.Famously describing the 1983 manifesto as the longest suicide
:21:44. > :21:46.note in history. Later, as a Select Committee chair, he challenged
:21:47. > :21:51.organisations like the Royal Opera House and the BBC. The figures
:21:52. > :21:57.attached to Sir John Birt are astounding, aren't they. If you add
:21:58. > :22:06.his salary of ?276,000 and his annual bonus of ?159,000 and his
:22:07. > :22:13.benefits of ?21,000 and his termination payment of ?328,0400. We
:22:14. > :22:17.are arriving at... That's an ex-extraordinary sum of money. Well,
:22:18. > :22:21.if you add those figures up you are adding an an approximate to an
:22:22. > :22:30.orange and a grape. It is all money. Isn't it? He became a critic of the
:22:31. > :22:35.Jewish state. It is time to remind Sharon, the star of David belongs to
:22:36. > :22:41.all dues and no his repulsive Government. Known as a distinctive
:22:42. > :22:52.dresser he became father of the House in 2015. I swear by Almighty
:22:53. > :22:58.God I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Queen... Tributes were
:22:59. > :23:02.paid to him at PMQs on Wednesday. He was an outstanding parliamentarian.
:23:03. > :23:06.He was a committed MP, who dedicated his life to the service of his
:23:07. > :23:10.constituents and as Father of the House, his wisdom and experience
:23:11. > :23:15.will be very much missed across this House. I am sure our thoughts are
:23:16. > :23:21.with his friends and family. He was an iconic figure in the Labour Party
:23:22. > :23:24.and in British politics. He was a champion for peace in the Middle
:23:25. > :23:29.East and around the world. I was talking to members of his family and
:23:30. > :23:35.his great nephews and nieces. I asked, how would you describe him?
:23:36. > :23:40.They said, he was an awesome uncle. We should remember Gerald as that
:23:41. > :23:45.and convey our condolences to all of his family. Remembering Sir Gerald
:23:46. > :23:50.Kaufman and the new father of the House is Kenneth Clarke, who also
:23:51. > :23:55.first become an MP back in 1970. Now, with a look at what has
:23:56. > :24:00.happened in the wider world of politics, here is our countdown,
:24:01. > :24:09.with Ros Ball. Five, four, three, two, one...
:24:10. > :24:14.Bronze miniatures were on display in Parliament. The winning design will
:24:15. > :24:22.be used for a statue in Manchester. Vive Mr President. 40,000 people
:24:23. > :24:27.have signed an on line petition calling for Barack Obama to stand
:24:28. > :24:33.for their elections. A by-election in the Lords. 27 candidates are
:24:34. > :24:37.looking for a place among the 92 hereditary peers. The only members
:24:38. > :24:43.of the Upper House. A bad week for crisps. Prime Minister, Theresa May,
:24:44. > :24:47.is giving them up for lent. Oh, yes! And they may have been
:24:48. > :24:50.defeated over the Brexit bill this week, but MPs did beat the Lords in
:24:51. > :25:07.the annual pancake race. Another successful pancake race. So,
:25:08. > :25:11.quickly flipping. Now to the week ahead, two significant events coming
:25:12. > :25:15.along. On Wednesday, the Chancellor will unveil the contents of his
:25:16. > :25:20.Budget box. The final Budget to be presented in the spring. Before
:25:21. > :25:22.that, peers could be causing more embarrassment for ministers with
:25:23. > :25:32.another possible defeat on the Brexit bill. Do join me for the next
:25:33. > :25:39.week in Parliament. Until then, from me Keith Macdougall, goodbye.