:00:21. > :00:26.Tonight, we're building up to the big heavy weight title fight. Who
:00:26. > :00:31.will come out on top? The unions take on the Government
:00:31. > :00:34.over pensions. In the red corner - author and
:00:34. > :00:41.agitater Michael Rosen. Government and the public sector
:00:41. > :00:47.are squaring up for a fight and this is just round one. Brawling in
:00:47. > :00:55.the streets of at thens, but is there a winner?
:00:55. > :01:05.Adam Boulton shows us some moves. The Chinese General once said
:01:05. > :01:08.
:01:08. > :01:13."strategy without politics is the As both David Haye and Andy Murray
:01:14. > :01:17.get ready for the showdowns, what makes a real winner? Talent or
:01:17. > :01:25.self-believe? Jazzie B will be dancing like a butterfly.
:01:25. > :01:34.Appearing on this Week does wonders for my self-esteem.
:01:35. > :01:39.Ding-ding. Round one! Welcome to This Week. For those who
:01:39. > :01:43.can just about remember why we went to war in North Africa, a critical
:01:43. > :01:47.milestone has been reached. Arrest warrants from the International
:01:47. > :01:53.Criminal Courts and a threat to deploy Prince Harry's chopper in
:01:53. > :01:57.the nightclubs of Benghazi, last Monday marked the 100th day of
:01:57. > :02:04.NATO's military campaign to prevent Colonel Gaddafi attending the 2012
:02:04. > :02:08.Olympics. Although unseating the dictator has proved shifter than
:02:08. > :02:12.shifting tickets to handball events, let's not forget what we have
:02:12. > :02:21.achieved so far. Without the no-fly zone there's the chance we would
:02:21. > :02:31.have to see Colonel Gaddafi pitch his Bedouin tent on Centre Court
:02:31. > :02:31.
:02:31. > :02:36.this week. Boy George Osborne, Merv the
:02:36. > :02:43.Governor King. It's not as though Europe is facing a crisis the size
:02:43. > :02:48.of Lembit Opik's asteroid. When Andy Murray is in sight of a
:02:48. > :02:54.Wimbledon final - C'mon Tim!. Oh, that's the other guy! Speaking of
:02:54. > :02:59.those who can take a day off work without anybody noticing in the
:02:59. > :03:04.slightest I am joined by two sickie-throwers, the Wayne and
:03:04. > :03:09.Waynetta Slob of late night political chat. I speak of Michael
:03:09. > :03:19.Portillo and stie Stewart, yet another flash -- Gisela Stewart,
:03:19. > :03:22.
:03:22. > :03:26.yet another fashion clash. One has got a purple top and black bottom.
:03:26. > :03:36.Christine Lagard was appointed the head of the IMF. A decision I think
:03:36. > :03:41.will be disastrous for the world. Her first comment on being elected
:03:41. > :03:47.was about Greece. It was the comment made by someone who is a
:03:47. > :03:52.founding mother of this euro currency mess we are in. As far as
:03:52. > :03:57.the IMF is concerned, saving the euro or saving Greek membership is
:03:57. > :04:01.not the priority. The IMF's priority so to do the best deal to
:04:01. > :04:05.make sure we don't get global meltdown. If that means the Greek
:04:05. > :04:09.and the Irish leaving, so be it. I think she is the wrong choice. I am
:04:09. > :04:12.very sorry that George Osborne welcomed her to the job. I am
:04:12. > :04:17.fascinated by that moment. The consensus is she will be great.
:04:17. > :04:26.That is well done. You have given us food for thought. Good! Do you
:04:27. > :04:30.know what she used to be? What she used to be! She used to be a
:04:30. > :04:35.synchronised swimmer. I am glad it was not a quiz question. We have
:04:35. > :04:43.that coming up. Your moment, Gisela? The continued failure by
:04:43. > :04:49.the Prime Minister to keep Mrs Bowen better. This is the wife of
:04:49. > :04:58.the Conservative backbencher. showed Cameron's ability to really
:04:58. > :05:02.respond to humour and to be fair him together with Natasha chair the
:05:02. > :05:05.backbench committee which had its first year. I was sceptical to
:05:05. > :05:10.begin with. They have made an extraordinary success of that
:05:10. > :05:14.committee. I am prepared to give him a lot of credit. He brought
:05:14. > :05:20.humour to the House. Also allowed the backbenchers, as part of his
:05:20. > :05:30.work, to be much more forceful than they have been hither to. The House
:05:30. > :05:31.
:05:31. > :05:39.of Commons operates with catch faces in the -- catchphrases in the
:05:39. > :05:45.House of Commons. David Aimish used to say "the people in bas dil son."
:05:46. > :05:50.And every time he said "Basildon" people used to cheer. Do not adjust
:05:50. > :05:59.your set. That is the colour they are wearing! Nothing wrong with
:05:59. > :06:05.that. Now, imagine a workplace riddled
:06:05. > :06:11.with sexual frustration, raging hormones. Stop laughing. Where
:06:11. > :06:19.people draw Willies in tip pex. It's not the This Cap week office.
:06:19. > :06:23.Michael was in tears when he saw what Gisela had done to his justice
:06:23. > :06:29.Bieber pencil case. He does have one! I am talking about schools. I
:06:29. > :06:34.am working in conditions for immense rebellions. Teachers went
:06:34. > :06:40.on strike, closing thousands of schools across England and Wales.
:06:40. > :06:50.Former laurri yet and occasional teacher, Michael Rosen, he went on
:06:50. > :06:55.
:06:55. > :06:59.the picket line. My parents were both teachers, so I
:06:59. > :07:03.grew up with an enormous amount of respect and admiration for the
:07:03. > :07:08.profession. I go into schools and colleges all the time, including
:07:08. > :07:15.this one, so I see how difficult it is, the job that teachers do and
:07:15. > :07:19.how valuable that is. Teachers develop young people. They
:07:19. > :07:24.give them the skills they will need if they are going to go to work and
:07:24. > :07:27.that we need for the economy. They help create tolerance, socially-
:07:27. > :07:37.minded people, again that will lead in a future society. That is what
:07:37. > :07:40.
:07:40. > :07:44.we owe to teachers. This Government's attack on
:07:44. > :07:48.teachers' pensions is part of a broader, full-frontal assault on
:07:48. > :07:58.the public sector. This Government thinks that private equals good,
:07:58. > :07:58.
:07:58. > :08:02.They think if they can portray the teachers as greedy with their gold
:08:02. > :08:12.plated pensions, they can drive a wedge between the public sector
:08:12. > :08:15.
:08:15. > :08:22.workers and the rest of the public. But the private sector can't
:08:22. > :08:28.replace the public sector. Chart ty, no good for delivering a universal
:08:28. > :08:33.free education service. What they deliver is something piecemeal,
:08:33. > :08:37.which ends up excluding people. We need a secure, well-paid public
:08:37. > :08:40.sector. I don't know if these strikes will work. I certainly hope
:08:40. > :08:46.so. I hope that everyone will support the public sector unions
:08:46. > :08:49.and what they're doing today. It would be great if the Labour Party
:08:49. > :08:54.leadership would support these strieblgs. I am not holding --
:08:54. > :08:59.strike. I am not holding my breath on that one. It is time we valued
:08:59. > :09:03.the public sector and stood up to the Government when they attack it.
:09:03. > :09:08.Michael Rosen, straight from that picket line in north-east London
:09:08. > :09:14.now joins us in our own revolting Westminster studio. Good evening.
:09:14. > :09:18.Are you saying that there is no problem whatsoever with public
:09:18. > :09:21.sector pensions? I think really it is actually Lord Hutton who
:09:21. > :09:26.suggested there wasn't much problem with it. He would like to import,
:09:26. > :09:30.he suggested it was a good idea importing a certain amount of
:09:30. > :09:33.private pensions into the matter. It was his words who said it was
:09:33. > :09:37.affordable. Its is his graph that caused the problem. He said they
:09:37. > :09:42.were unfair? He said that it is affordable. If they are affordable
:09:42. > :09:45.they are affordable. I will come on, the Government may have taken a
:09:45. > :09:48.wrong turn on this issue of affordable because of that very
:09:48. > :09:52.graph. I have interviewed Government ministers this week and
:09:52. > :09:57.cannot get an answer out of them on that at all. Maybe they didn't read
:09:57. > :10:02.it. You are not saying politicians sign things that they have not read,
:10:02. > :10:09.other than their expenses! On the fairness issue, is it fair to ask
:10:09. > :10:12.the general taxpayer to subsidise, through their taxes, more generous
:10:13. > :10:18.pensions in the public sector than they on average enjoy themselves
:10:18. > :10:23.a way it's the wrong way to frame it, isn't it? What is the general
:10:23. > :10:31.taxpayer doing? They subsidise the rich and super rich with their
:10:31. > :10:36.subsidies for their own pensions. Yes, if you take someone like Mr
:10:36. > :10:43.Fred Goodwin, with his �700,000 pension a year, as he saupbltered
:10:43. > :10:50.away he was getting tax relief on that. The general public don't like
:10:50. > :10:54.that either. The average public pension is higher than the average
:10:54. > :10:59.private sector pension. Outside of local Government they are not self-
:10:59. > :11:03.financing. The general taxpayer is paying for these pensions. That's
:11:03. > :11:06.an argument for the private sector workers to have fought harder to
:11:06. > :11:11.defend their pensions. This is one of the richest countries in the
:11:11. > :11:15.world. The issue is the distribution of money, it's the
:11:15. > :11:20.distribution of money, not whether one group is subsidising another
:11:20. > :11:25.group of workers. We have tax avoidance. There is massive wealth
:11:25. > :11:29.in this country. That is where we should be looking. Mr Brown took
:11:29. > :11:34.�100 million out of private sector pensions, that is why they are
:11:34. > :11:39.worse than public sector pensions. It is not something I would have
:11:39. > :11:43.supported. I am not here to defend the Labour Party, as you may have
:11:43. > :11:49.noticed. Let's see if Michael will defend the Conservatives. The
:11:49. > :11:52.Government did have that change tack, the unaffordable claim, we
:11:52. > :11:57.all produce this graph from the Hutton Report showing as a
:11:57. > :12:03.percentage of GDP, the cost of public sector pensions declined
:12:03. > :12:07.over time. It peaked last year at just under 2%. They are saying it
:12:07. > :12:12.is untenable, rather than unaffordable. It was a mistake to
:12:12. > :12:18.say unaffordable? It was the wrong line. I think the line, any way,
:12:18. > :12:23.that resonates more, is that it is unfair. We've seen today members of
:12:23. > :12:28.the public interviewed. They have said I have gone through it with my
:12:29. > :12:35.private sector pension, I don't see why public sector pensions should
:12:35. > :12:38.be so generous. The National Audit Office. That is why the graph is
:12:38. > :12:44.going down. They approved it. have been changes, perfectly true.
:12:45. > :12:49.They have taken a hit. In terms of the comparison, there is still a
:12:49. > :12:56.big gap. One is the gap in the extension of provision. The second
:12:56. > :13:00.is the extent of the coverage. gap is widening. If you have taken
:13:00. > :13:04.the big hit, you are in the private sector. That is not an argument
:13:04. > :13:08.that the public sector ought to as well. This is the so-called race to
:13:08. > :13:12.a bottom. You have the idea that we are a rich country and if our
:13:12. > :13:17.public spending goes on we will get richer. We are not as rich as we
:13:17. > :13:21.used to be. If the.... Sixth richest in the world. We were
:13:21. > :13:24.fourth. That is my point. We are going down the scale. If we keep
:13:24. > :13:33.increasing public sending or not dealing the problems we will go
:13:33. > :13:36.down the scale further. If it is re-phrased as "unfair" rather than
:13:36. > :13:38."unaffordable," does that make it a more compelling argument. It is a
:13:38. > :13:44.more compelling argument that we need change. You cannot deny the
:13:44. > :13:48.fact that we all need to work longer. We need to move to averages
:13:48. > :13:54.in terms of pensions rather than:.: So you say, in a school that what
:13:54. > :13:58.we want is 66 year olds, 67 year olds, 68 year olds. I with us in a
:13:58. > :14:04.school yesterday. I did two-and-a- half hours in a school. I was
:14:04. > :14:10.shattered. I am 65. If you say teachers could be 66 and 67. I have
:14:10. > :14:14.young children. I don't want them taught by shattered teachers.
:14:14. > :14:18.Someone has to generate the wealth to fund our pensions. We have to
:14:18. > :14:22.look at how to make it a fairer system. I don't think it is fair.
:14:22. > :14:32.It is not right to, have as your starting point to have a strike and
:14:32. > :14:34.
:14:34. > :14:38.a walkout. I don't think that was This Michael first, has David
:14:38. > :14:41.Cameron got the stomach to fight the unions? I think he has and
:14:41. > :14:47.particularly they have begun so badly. They began with a strike at
:14:47. > :14:52.the wrong time. They have only probably got a fifth of the civil
:14:52. > :14:57.servants out on strike today or maybe fewer. So it's begun badly.
:14:57. > :15:00.It is quite an interesting tragedy. Both sides have made drastic
:15:00. > :15:05.mistakes. The Government has made the wrong argument. The Chief
:15:05. > :15:15.Secretary of the Treasury provoked the unions and now the unions have
:15:15. > :15:22.
:15:22. > :15:30.gone off half-cock. I interviewed the Prime Minister - and although
:15:30. > :15:37.he talks about negotiations going on, they aren't prepared to do this.
:15:37. > :15:41.Are the unions up for a strike? not that near to the unions to know.
:15:41. > :15:46.You were on the picket line, though? On the ground, people are
:15:46. > :15:49.very angry. This is an unfair society that coming out of this
:15:49. > :15:55.crisis, the economic crisis, the rich are in fact doing very well.
:15:55. > :16:00.They are recouping their losses. They are being asked to - they are
:16:00. > :16:04.asked to make the sacrifices where the super-rich are doing very well.
:16:04. > :16:10.There is a question of how you respond to that anger and you put
:16:10. > :16:16.it right. The unions are probably walking into a trap here by evoking
:16:16. > :16:21.all kinds of images of the '80s, the battle... Neither of you
:16:21. > :16:25.support the unions. Hold on. are not exactly doing it from a
:16:25. > :16:29.point of view of supporting them. Ed Miliband has not been vocal...
:16:29. > :16:37.No, no, we can go back to the miners' strike. The Labour Party
:16:37. > :16:43.leadership didn't support the miners. It's a completely different
:16:43. > :16:46.argument. Depends which aspect of the world... Michael... A massive
:16:46. > :16:51.amount of wealth is made in this country and poverty, nothing has
:16:51. > :16:58.changed. We are in the process of putting legislation through where
:16:58. > :17:04.we take child benefit away from anyone who earns over �40,000.
:17:04. > :17:08.Quite frankly, to call out teachers and lose a day at school and stop
:17:08. > :17:14.people, single parents going to work because we are angry was not
:17:14. > :17:18.the right... It was too early. is their livelihoods over the whole
:17:18. > :17:27.of their lifetimes. All right. You have both made your cases very
:17:27. > :17:30.clearly for our viewers to decide. Viewers in a sense - public opinion
:17:30. > :17:36.has a big impact on strikes. Where do you think public opinion is now?
:17:36. > :17:45.I am assuming this will not be resolved by the autumn and it will
:17:45. > :17:55.kick-off again in a bigger fashion. Where will it be in the autumn?
:17:55. > :17:57.
:17:57. > :18:01.depends to what extent the union leaders decide to say where we
:18:01. > :18:07.stand. These people at the other end of society are making millions
:18:07. > :18:10.of money and they are not greedy. They are supposed to have the
:18:10. > :18:13.incentives. People need incentives to go into a classroom and teach.
:18:13. > :18:16.They need to know that their life is secure and that when they work
:18:17. > :18:23.at the end of 40 years work they will get a decent pension.
:18:23. > :18:29.Otherwise we will lose them. We will have worst teachers. Thank you
:18:29. > :18:32.very much. Now, a great spiritual leader once
:18:32. > :18:38.observed, "You yourself - as much as anybody in the entire universe -
:18:38. > :18:41.deserve your love and affection." Although it sounds like something
:18:41. > :18:47.Michael said during his power- hungry personality cult phase, it
:18:47. > :18:50.is in fact one of the sayings of the Buddha! So, in the spirit of
:18:50. > :18:53.Zen, for which we are known, stick around because British soul master
:18:53. > :18:59.Jazzie B will be joining us to talk about the power of self-esteem and
:18:59. > :19:02.the dangers of self-love. And after former BBC Chairman Michael Grade
:19:02. > :19:05.claimed making a complaint to the BBC was a "grisly and 'hopeless"
:19:05. > :19:08.business we'd like to point him in the direction of our own puddle of
:19:08. > :19:14.filth, otherwise known as the Viewers' Comments section on our
:19:14. > :19:19.interweb page. Or - just like the Pope - you can sign up and follow
:19:19. > :19:26.us in the twittersphere. "A disgrace", "unhelpful and ill-
:19:26. > :19:29.informed", "he should be ashamed of himself." No, not another selection
:19:29. > :19:34.of your comments - that's how the head of one teaching union, Mary
:19:34. > :19:39.Bousted, described Ed Miliband today. And she's not the only one
:19:39. > :19:42.getting shirty this week. On his visit to the UK the Chinese
:19:42. > :19:47.President ticked off Sky's Adam Boulton for daring to ask a
:19:47. > :19:50.question about human rights! So we asked the man himself for his
:19:50. > :20:00.round-up of the week at Westminster - Adam Boulton that is, not Wen
:20:00. > :20:35.
:20:35. > :20:38.Hello, I'm in training. I may be one of two journalists permitted to
:20:38. > :20:45.question the Chinese Prime Minister this week, but it would seem I have
:20:45. > :20:49.still got a lot to learn. Do you accept as is often argued here if
:20:49. > :20:55.China is the continue its impressive economic progress it
:20:56. > :21:01.will have to make progress on both human rights and democracy?
:21:01. > :21:11.TRANSLATION: Your question struck me that you may have not made very
:21:11. > :21:11.
:21:11. > :21:17.I was only trying to be polite. Perhaps 5,000 years of Chinese
:21:17. > :21:23.culture have got something to teach us. After all, it was the Chinese
:21:23. > :21:27.military scholar who said "strategy without tactics are the slow route
:21:27. > :21:36.to victory, tactics without strategy are the noise of defeat".
:21:36. > :21:40.Come to think of it, that sounds like Westminster in a typical week!
:21:40. > :21:44.At least I gave David Cameron something to chuckle about in a
:21:44. > :21:50.difficult week. The Tories like to consider themselves party of Queen,
:21:50. > :21:58.country and the forces. This week, military top brass were demoted
:21:58. > :22:02.from the top table while the real fighting was on the streets.
:22:02. > :22:08.those considering strike action at a time when discussions are ongoing,
:22:08. > :22:16.I would say to you these strikes are wrong for you, for the people
:22:16. > :22:21.you serve, for the good of the country. Men's natures are alike,
:22:21. > :22:26.it is their habits that cast them far apart. Take public sector
:22:26. > :22:30.strikes, easy for Conservatives to condemn, Liberal Democrats to lie
:22:30. > :22:35.low, but tricky for union-backed Labour. I don't think political
:22:35. > :22:45.leaders in opposition or in Government should applaud strikes
:22:45. > :22:46.
:22:46. > :22:52.or condemn strikes. He who is ignorant both of himself and his
:22:52. > :22:55.enemy is truly in peril so the Labour Leader took a different line.
:22:55. > :22:58.I do think the strikes are a mistake. They shouldn't be going
:22:58. > :23:02.ahead because they will inconvenience parents and children.
:23:02. > :23:05.Public sector pensions do need to be reformed. The Government has got
:23:05. > :23:10.to take its share of responsibility because they have gone about these
:23:10. > :23:20.negotiations in quite a provocative way. My message to both sides is
:23:20. > :23:23.
:23:23. > :23:27.get round the negotiating table. Miliband switched to another
:23:27. > :23:31.subject - NHS reform. The whole country will have heard that he has
:23:31. > :23:37.admitted they are spending �852 million on making people redundant
:23:37. > :23:42.and he can't promise they want be rehired to do their old jobs.
:23:42. > :23:50.who speaks without modesty will find it difficult to make his words
:23:50. > :23:54.good. David Cameron struck back on strikes. What the whole country
:23:54. > :23:58.will have noticed is that a time when people are worried about
:23:58. > :24:08.strikes, he can't ask about strikes because he's in the pocket of the
:24:08. > :24:22.
:24:22. > :24:31.unions. The master also said he who will not economise must agonise.
:24:31. > :24:36.Greece voted through its austerity package. Saving the euro was
:24:36. > :24:40.priority number one for the new IMF chief. Yet another French person.
:24:40. > :24:49.David Cameron stuck the to his guns, no more British cash for Greece and
:24:49. > :24:54.certainly not for the EU budget. Mrs Bone wanted to know whether if
:24:54. > :24:58.a bail-out came before 2013, despite qualifying majority voting,
:24:58. > :25:01.Britain would vote no in any case. I know that she would be very happy
:25:01. > :25:07.if the Prime Minister give that undertaking and it would be helpful
:25:07. > :25:17.for the Bone household if he could. I do feel now that a very big part
:25:17. > :25:19.
:25:19. > :25:29.of my life is trying to give pleasure to Mrs Bone! LAUGHTER
:25:29. > :25:31.
:25:31. > :25:34.feel on this occasion I can only go so far. There was bad news on the
:25:34. > :25:40.home front for the party of law- and-order. Burglaries and robberies
:25:40. > :25:48.are up in the recession according to latest statistics. Old master
:25:48. > :25:53.Ken Clarke reached for his art of war who said, "He who is pruden and
:25:53. > :25:58.waits for an enemy who is not will be victorious" - or to put it
:25:58. > :26:02.another way, bash a burglar. can hit the borrowing lar with the
:26:03. > :26:11.poker if he is in the house and you -- burglar with the poker if he is
:26:11. > :26:15.in the house and you will have a reasonable defence if you do so.
:26:15. > :26:23.For me, annoying the Prime Minister of China, seems easier than getting
:26:24. > :26:33.a visa to visit the middle kingdom. Then forget injuries but always
:26:34. > :26:45.
:26:45. > :26:50.Thank you. You wouldn't want to hit him with a poker. Greece, we saw it
:26:50. > :26:56.unfold in Parliament and on the streets. What did you make of it
:26:56. > :26:59.all? As I said last week, we are heading for disaster, I fear. This
:26:59. > :27:05.is a huge threat to the British economy, a huge threat to the world
:27:05. > :27:10.economy. There is no medium or long-term plan. There simply is
:27:10. > :27:14.another buy-out for a brief period of time. What the Greeks are being
:27:14. > :27:19.asked to do is unaffordable. I can't see how they can survive.
:27:19. > :27:24.This will lead to some meltdown. What we have done, not we, but what
:27:24. > :27:28.the European Union has done this week is simply buy time? It hasn't
:27:28. > :27:34.in any way resolved what's happened? It is worse than that.
:27:34. > :27:37.Worse? It's thrown good money after bad and it's in a state of complete
:27:37. > :27:41.denial and the responsible thing would be for the Commission to sit
:27:41. > :27:46.down and draw up plans for a legal framework which would allow a
:27:46. > :27:50.country, whether it is Greece or otherwise, to leave the euro so you
:27:50. > :27:58.can resolve it. The Maastricht Treaty never made any provision for
:27:58. > :28:02.a country to leave the eurozone? was seen as the project, it will
:28:02. > :28:09.only advance if nobody is allowed to leave the European Union or the
:28:09. > :28:14.eurozone. We have a political aspiration that is deaf and blind
:28:14. > :28:17.to reality. Who will pay the price? The poor people on the streets will
:28:17. > :28:21.find their savings are worth nothing. What I would say is (a)
:28:21. > :28:25.I'm staggered that both the House of Commons and the government is
:28:25. > :28:30.not much firmer to demand that we draw up plans. I'm staggered that
:28:30. > :28:32.the Prime Minister did not respond when I raised with him Article
:28:32. > :28:37.Provisions which would allow the European Union to impose currency
:28:37. > :28:41.restrictions in the case of an emergency. I just find it
:28:41. > :28:45.unbelievable that across Europe everybody keeps pretending that if
:28:45. > :28:52.only they cut their taxes and public spending, it will be all
:28:52. > :28:56.right. It won't. You are German in origin. It is said that the average
:28:56. > :28:59.German is now up to here with the thought of a further bail-out to
:28:59. > :29:03.Greece or Portugal or Ireland or Spain. Is that right? What do you
:29:03. > :29:10.think of the modern euro country? Not only are they up to here with
:29:10. > :29:15.that notion, but also in the past, Germany used to be able to purchase
:29:15. > :29:21.agreement. They aren't sufficiently successful that they could afford
:29:21. > :29:27.to do this. There is a lack of political will. As I look at it, I
:29:27. > :29:32.have been following this closely, everybody knows that this extra
:29:32. > :29:37.money isn't going to help the situation because there's a senior
:29:37. > :29:41.banker, he said to me today that Greece is insolvent. Yes. Yet, the
:29:41. > :29:47.price Greece is being asked to pay will never be carried out. As I
:29:47. > :29:55.understand it, a board of non- Greeks has been created to sell off
:29:55. > :30:02.50 billion euros worth of Greek assets. Greece's airports and
:30:02. > :30:10.buildings. That is not going to work? When I was arguing 15 years
:30:10. > :30:17.ago with Ken Clarke that there were issues of sovereignty, he laughed.
:30:17. > :30:23.It is clear there are issues of sovereignty. It is a battle state.
:30:23. > :30:28.The money which we are pumping is going in to save the euro. Greece
:30:28. > :30:32.is indeed insolvent. The European leaders want to save the euro
:30:32. > :30:35.project at all cost. The British Government is concerned only to
:30:35. > :30:39.make the childish point that we are not going to pay anything for the
:30:39. > :30:49.bail-out. The serious point is that this thing is a phenomenal threat
:30:49. > :30:50.
:30:50. > :30:55.It would mean David Cameron should consider taking a position, perhaps
:30:55. > :30:59.the IMF and American health as well to try and -- help as well, to try
:30:59. > :31:04.and knock heads together. I would not bother with the IMF now. It is
:31:04. > :31:11.led by Christine Lagarde. I forgot about the new line of the IMF, you
:31:11. > :31:17.only told me a few moments ago. IMF going into Greece, what its
:31:17. > :31:22.traditional package is countries in trouble, you increase taxes, cut
:31:22. > :31:26.public sending -- spending and devalue currency. The IMF in terms
:31:27. > :31:31.of its normal roles, knows that this package will not work because
:31:31. > :31:39.the third element is not there for Greece. We will keep an eye on this
:31:39. > :31:42.as the weeks go by. It is a long way to go yet. It's staggering the
:31:42. > :31:48.House of Commons is not discussing this. The leader of the House of
:31:48. > :31:52.Commons says debate on Europe are backbench business. It didn't come
:31:52. > :31:56.up at Prime Minister's Questions. Speaking of PMQs, the Ed Miliband
:31:56. > :31:59.tactic now, which he did for a third week in a row of picking a
:31:59. > :32:02.specific detail. He thinks the Prime Minister is weak on detail,
:32:02. > :32:05.so he goes for a detail hoping to catch the Prime Minister out.
:32:06. > :32:10.Actually, sometimes he does. Sometimes it is clear the Prime
:32:10. > :32:14.Minister is not across these details. I suggest to you though
:32:14. > :32:17.that there may be diminishing returns to this, that most think
:32:17. > :32:21.the Prime Minister cannot be expected to know everything and
:32:21. > :32:26.there's a kind of Oxford debating union trick about this, which
:32:26. > :32:32.people won't like. The week before last, it was a detail on a point
:32:32. > :32:35.that was highly political. It was a political issue and Cameron, who
:32:35. > :32:41.usually does not look at his notes started to flick through them and
:32:41. > :32:46.showed a weakness. It only works as a detail in relation to something
:32:46. > :32:53.big. This week it did not work. The world around us is in a state of
:32:53. > :32:58.collapse. There are strikes, the economic crisis. He was going on
:32:58. > :33:03.about the NHS. It seemed irrelevant. As a Government you don't want to
:33:03. > :33:08.get a reputation of ministers not knowing the details. And over this
:33:08. > :33:13.pension thing, ministers have looked like they don't know the
:33:13. > :33:18.basic argument. Mr Maude on the Today Programme.... Painful... I
:33:18. > :33:23.think we should pass over it. loved it. It was great! I would
:33:23. > :33:26.like to re-play it a couple of times! You can do that on the BBC
:33:26. > :33:32.iPlayer. The Speaker gave the Prime Minister a bit of stick today. In
:33:32. > :33:39.fact he gave it to him yesterday, gave it twice to him, but what does
:33:39. > :33:42.the Commons think of the Speaker Bercow now? In general? To be
:33:43. > :33:47.absolutely honest, I think in terms of statement, if you are there, you
:33:47. > :33:50.know you're going to get called, it's much more predictable. He has
:33:50. > :33:57.done what he said he would set out to do and make sure the
:33:57. > :34:01.backbenchers get more of a voice. I think the new intake... He's had
:34:01. > :34:09.more support than not? When push comes down to shove he comes down
:34:09. > :34:16.on the side of the backbenchers. Questions about Ken Clarke, fellow
:34:16. > :34:23.Cambridge graduate as well. Is it wise for politicians to say, it's
:34:23. > :34:29.all right for a burglar to whack -- it's all right to whack a burglar
:34:29. > :34:39.with a poker. Also, who, here's the big political question of the week,
:34:39. > :34:39.
:34:39. > :34:46.who has a poker in 2011? That's a very good point. Who has Hush
:34:46. > :34:50.Puppies in 2011. They go together. I had my head many my hands.
:34:50. > :34:53.Firstly, the point you made, it's not for Government ministers to say
:34:53. > :34:58.hitting someone with a poker who has come through your front door is
:34:58. > :35:02.the correct thing to do. It must be so far from what Ken Clarke
:35:02. > :35:07.believes and thinks. He must think it is a piece of nonsense. Poor Ken,
:35:07. > :35:15.he is standing on his head twice a week, it's not a comfortable
:35:15. > :35:22.position. I go to bed with a poker in one hand, hush huppis on the end
:35:22. > :35:27.of the bed. -- hush puppies on the end of the
:35:27. > :35:33.bed. If you like what you see in the political mirror, there are few
:35:33. > :35:38.better places to pollish it than in the This Week sofa, or as Diane
:35:38. > :35:41.Abbott thinks, the political Siberia, otherwise known as the
:35:41. > :35:45.shadow public health team. It made us think about the importance of
:35:45. > :35:50.assessing one's talents and thoughts. After we picked ourselves
:35:50. > :36:00.up from our fit of despair, we decided to put self-esteem in this
:36:00. > :36:02.
:36:02. > :36:09.I'm the real champion. There'll never be one like me. I will prove
:36:09. > :36:13.I'm the greatest. I'm going to eat raw meat. I'm going to get ready.
:36:13. > :36:18.You could never accuse heavy weight boxers of lacking in self-esteem.
:36:18. > :36:22.As David Haye prepares for the biggest fight of his life, he knows
:36:22. > :36:27.that humility is rarely regarded in -- rewarded in the ring. I cannot
:36:27. > :36:33.wait to get in there and do what I've got to do. Andy Murray claims
:36:33. > :36:42.the harder he works, the luckier he gets and believes he has what it
:36:42. > :36:47.takes to reach a Wimbledon final. Just to understand... Jamie Oliver
:36:47. > :36:52.asked a group of failing students to be taken on. Too little, or
:36:52. > :36:57.centre stage. For me, the discipline, it was easy. Just how
:36:57. > :37:02.important is a healthy assessment of your own abilities and talents?
:37:02. > :37:09.Can it spur you on to success, and help fulfil your dreams, or blind
:37:09. > :37:13.you to your faults and fill an overinflated ego?
:37:13. > :37:17.Sorry about that so late at night - it has probably frightened you.
:37:17. > :37:23.Come out from behind the sofa. It is all right. We won't bite. Jazzie
:37:23. > :37:27.B, welcome. When you started out, were you aware of the talents you
:37:27. > :37:33.thought you had and the faults you thought you had? I think when I
:37:33. > :37:39.started out I was very fortunate because of my parents instilled so
:37:39. > :37:44.much in regards to my confidence, et cetera, et cetera. Then I had a
:37:44. > :37:48.fantastic time at school. I had some great teachers, who also
:37:48. > :37:54.encouraged that. So, some might say I might be slightly overconfident
:37:54. > :37:59.in certain areas, where that could be a help as well as a hinder repbs.
:37:59. > :38:03.You probably need that in your business. The background of parents
:38:03. > :38:09.and teachers gave you a healthy sense of self-esteem. I would like
:38:09. > :38:14.to believe so. Not an overblown one? Come from a large family, you
:38:14. > :38:19.get put in your place, you know often enough. That also helps.
:38:19. > :38:24.have to eat quickly. You have to eat quickly. Who wears the right
:38:24. > :38:27.sized shoes, et cetera, et cetera. All those things helped in regards
:38:27. > :38:34.to my personal confidence. There are often, I have met a lot of
:38:34. > :38:40.people from various walks, who seem to be over confident and sometimes
:38:40. > :38:47.that may be over-compensating for their insecurities. When you dealt
:38:47. > :38:53.with kids in Jamie Oliver's dream school, you were a teacher along
:38:53. > :38:56.with others, Alister Campbell. David Starky. They have all been on
:38:56. > :39:00.this programme, which is why they have self-esteem. Tell me, these
:39:00. > :39:06.kids, because there were some difficult ones, did they suffer
:39:06. > :39:10.from a lack or in some cases too much self-esteem that wasn't
:39:10. > :39:16.justified? Some of them, the majority of them who, which I think
:39:16. > :39:21.most people who saw the programme would know, those who, yes, had too
:39:21. > :39:26.much and maybe believed that the world owed them something, and for
:39:26. > :39:31.my measure I believe a lot of that is because of the lack of self-
:39:31. > :39:35.esteem. So, often enough the bravado they come up and I'm this
:39:35. > :39:41.and I'm that, and maybe attacking you before you've actually finished
:39:41. > :39:45.the sentence, shows a level of insecurity. Yes. I see in a sense
:39:45. > :39:50.it's the lack of self-esteem that makes them give the impression they
:39:50. > :39:55.are full of self-esteem. Absolutely. That can be a very, very dangerous
:39:55. > :39:59.combination. How would you describe your self-esteem, Michael? I would
:39:59. > :40:03.describe it as Jazzie B did. It was my parents, it was my school that
:40:03. > :40:07.gave me that confidence. I remember a time when I didn't have so much
:40:07. > :40:11.confidence. I was in a house surrounded by books, but for
:40:11. > :40:15.instance I didn't know at one time I would go to university. I didn't
:40:15. > :40:19.know I would go to Cambridge. I have been surprised at every move
:40:19. > :40:24.along the way. I observed that a big difference between people who
:40:24. > :40:28.succeed and people who don't is not necessarily a gap between the gap
:40:28. > :40:33.between the successful and the lack of talent of the unsuccessful. The
:40:33. > :40:38.striking thing is self-esteem of the security and the lack of self-
:40:38. > :40:42.esteem of the less successful. That is a big factor. People who do well,
:40:42. > :40:49.a lot of them go around pinching themselves every day. When I was in
:40:49. > :40:55.Cabinet I used to pinch myself. Am I really....? Is this really many?
:40:55. > :41:01.Is that me? You think, "What am I doing here?" Would you like to
:41:01. > :41:05.complete this hat trick of people who have self-esteem? It does start
:41:05. > :41:12.at home in the sense that you grow up and there's a safe environment
:41:12. > :41:18.in that sense. The other thing is learning from mistakes, from
:41:18. > :41:24.reallyence to recover. That is bgs realistic about yourself. I
:41:24. > :41:28.benefited greatly, it is incredibly liberating. Half the rules you
:41:28. > :41:35.break because you don't know they are there. The other half you break
:41:35. > :41:41.and get away with it. It is changing your background sometimes
:41:41. > :41:48.is also good. Do you think it is a problem for boys more than girls?
:41:48. > :41:55.What I am worried about is boys between 11hf17.
:41:55. > :42:00.It's a mix of the two. What is per pech waited in the media for girls.
:42:00. > :42:03.It is dangerous. Having two children myself who are, one is a
:42:03. > :42:11.right teenager as it were and one is moving on. It's interesting to
:42:11. > :42:16.see that, plus come from a large family, I've a snapshot or even a
:42:16. > :42:19.bird's eye view of the differences of the males and females. Going
:42:19. > :42:25.through interesting times right now, as well as living with technology,
:42:25. > :42:29.et cetera, et cetera. There's always that, a huge element of
:42:29. > :42:36.doubt, and then a huge one of self- belief. It's trying to get that
:42:36. > :42:41.right, that you know, the guys I think, I'll stick my neck out and
:42:41. > :42:49.say, yeah, they probably suffer a lot more, as well as that idea of
:42:49. > :42:55.who is the alpha male? Particularly with the schooling systems. Then,
:42:55. > :43:01.we're looking at society now, where a lot of boys are failing in
:43:01. > :43:07.various aspects of that as well. Interesting times. It is a problem
:43:07. > :43:13.for both of them. What are you up to? I'm about to join Jamie Oliver
:43:13. > :43:20.on the Big Festival tomorrow on Clapham common. I'm looking forward
:43:20. > :43:24.to that. Soul to Soul has been back on tour. We have been touring since
:43:24. > :43:30.March. Onwards and upwards. With a healthy self-east steam following
:43:30. > :43:35.you. Jazzie B, thank you for coming in tonight. Staying up until this
:43:35. > :43:40.unGodly hour! It's a perfect time for me. That's your lot for tonight.
:43:40. > :43:46.We leave you with a thought. The Chinese Prime Minister visited the
:43:46. > :43:52.UK this week, he confirmed the loan of two giant pandas to Edinburgh
:43:52. > :44:00.Zoo. Yes, the so-called panda diplomacy. The practise of shipping