:00:19. > :00:24.Hi-de-hi, campers. Ho-de-ho, Providing the entertainment, chief
:00:25. > :00:29.redcoat Ed Miliband. Did he live up to his star billing? Andrew
:00:29. > :00:34.Rawnsley gives his verdict. Miliband has been Labour leader for
:00:34. > :00:38.12 months. There are still voices saying he is out of his depth. The
:00:38. > :00:42.Labour leader had to prove them wrong in his big speech. The wrong
:00:42. > :00:47.sort of entertainment in the eurozone, as politicians scramble
:00:47. > :00:51.to put on a show. Financial guru Alvin Hall says it is time for
:00:52. > :00:56.campers to wake up and smell the coffee. We cannot continue to pull
:00:56. > :01:00.the blankets over our heads about his financial crisis. It is not
:01:00. > :01:07.someone else's Responsibility. We need to take action without own
:01:07. > :01:12.money today. Bad behaviour in the holiday chalet. His bullying rife?
:01:12. > :01:16.Nicola Roberts from Girls Aloud fights back. I think bullying is
:01:17. > :01:21.out of control and something needs to be done about it. And topping
:01:21. > :01:27.the bill, TV legend Sir David Frost, whose interrogation of President
:01:27. > :01:37.Nixon has been voted the greatest broadcast interview ever.
:01:37. > :01:47.
:01:47. > :01:50.someone once said, hello, good Evenin' all folks, welcome to This
:01:50. > :01:56.Week, a week that's witnessed the fabled Labour spin machine in full
:01:56. > :02:00.conference flow. The first job for the party's PR wizards was a nose
:02:00. > :02:03.job. Specifically, killing off any plastic surgery jokes about Ed
:02:03. > :02:10."Putin" Miliband's recent nose job by getting him to crack some
:02:10. > :02:16.terrible plastic surgery jokes about his recent nose job! As in
:02:16. > :02:22."Ed Nose Day". Clever stuff, indeed! A "nose" job well done.
:02:22. > :02:24.After that, the PR "successes" came thick and fast. Show that Ed has no
:02:24. > :02:29.intention of winning three elections by getting the conference
:02:29. > :02:33.to boo Tony Blair. Check. Show that Ed's from the wrong side of the
:02:33. > :02:43.tracks by claiming his school in chi-chi Primrose Hill was in "a
:02:43. > :02:48.
:02:48. > :02:50.tough area". Double check. Get the media on your side by having your
:02:50. > :02:56.culture spokesman advocate journalists be registered and
:02:56. > :02:59.needing a licence. Triple check. Make sure Ed's keynote speech isn't
:02:59. > :03:03.overshadowed by giving the platform to a precocious adolescent who
:03:03. > :03:10.claims he was brought up in a show in the middle of a roundabout, but
:03:10. > :03:13.turns out to be the son of a millionaire. Quadruple check! Some
:03:13. > :03:15.crazy people are even saying the young child prodigy with the page
:03:16. > :03:20.boy haircut who wowed the conference could become party
:03:20. > :03:25.leader one day. But if Yvette Cooper is the answer, what the hell
:03:25. > :03:28.is the question? Speaking of those who know exactly how to turn off
:03:28. > :03:33.the electorate, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by the cold shower and
:03:33. > :03:43.fun sponge of late night political chat. I speak, of course, of
:03:43. > :03:43.
:03:43. > :03:47.Michael Portillo and Alan Johnson. Hello, both. Your moment of the
:03:47. > :03:51.week. I was talking to a philosopher on air about the euro
:03:52. > :03:57.crisis and he made a point that has not occurred to me before. All this
:03:57. > :04:01.stuff about rescuing Greece, it is not rescuing Greece, but rescuing
:04:01. > :04:07.the bankers who lent to Greece. We are transferring the burden from
:04:07. > :04:10.bankers who chose to lend to Greece, to taxpayers who did not choose to
:04:10. > :04:15.lend to Greece. It occurs to me there are two other things being
:04:15. > :04:20.saved, and Greece is not one of them. We are also trying to save
:04:20. > :04:24.the euro, and the real thing we are saving his the reputations of all
:04:24. > :04:27.the European politicians that rest upon the construction of the euro
:04:27. > :04:33.because they told us it was a good thing. Those are the things we have
:04:33. > :04:39.been saving, not Greece. You have been thinking a lot. It is not good
:04:39. > :04:42.for you. Mind is a raw political moment, being on site at the BAE
:04:43. > :04:47.plant just outside my constituency when 900 men, highly skilled
:04:47. > :04:51.engineers, were told they were being made redundant and that 100
:04:51. > :04:57.years of building aeroplanes on the Humber was to finish. And the kind
:04:57. > :05:01.of jobs we are meant to be wanting more of. And we suspect that the
:05:01. > :05:08.Hawk, this iconic British plane that the Red Arrows use, the plans
:05:08. > :05:12.are to build it in America, we suspect. I had a moment which was
:05:12. > :05:17.the news today that those doctors and nurses who looked after the
:05:17. > :05:23.patients who had been hit by the rioting in Bahrain have been sent
:05:23. > :05:26.to jail. Up to 15 years in some cases.
:05:26. > :05:30.Yet more turmoil in the world economy this week, and as it moves
:05:30. > :05:33.closer to home, what exactly are our options? Other than hitting the
:05:34. > :05:37.Blue Nun and turning off the news, that is, which is the official
:05:37. > :05:40.policy of this programme. Well, all may not be lost just yet. We've
:05:40. > :05:45.found our very own knight in shining financial armour - money
:05:45. > :05:55.guru Alvin Hall. Here's his take on what we - yes, that's you and me -
:05:55. > :05:57.
:05:57. > :06:00.should do, to prepare ourselves for the impending financial crisis.
:06:00. > :06:05.Phew cannot seem to turn on the television today, or open a
:06:05. > :06:09.newspaper and not hear about the world's financial crisis. -- you
:06:09. > :06:12.cannot seem to. From bankers to economists, President's two prime
:06:12. > :06:16.ministers, they are all talking about the problems associated with
:06:16. > :06:21.quantitative easing, stock market volatility, sovereign debt and the
:06:21. > :06:29.savings ratio. To most of us, these are abstract concepts that seemed
:06:29. > :06:33.to have nothing to do with the lives we live day-to-day. But let
:06:33. > :06:38.me tell you this, these things can affect our lives in ways that are
:06:38. > :06:43.unexpected and that would not have occurred in the past. Why? Because
:06:43. > :06:46.we live in a global economy. This is not just a looming financial
:06:46. > :06:54.crisis in Greece and the eurozone. If it continues, it will affect us
:06:54. > :06:59.all, whether we are rich or poor. I do not mean to frighten you, but
:06:59. > :07:03.what we are seeing is a result of year on year excessive borrowing by
:07:03. > :07:09.governments, corporations and individuals. And now it is payback
:07:09. > :07:19.time. Salaries will be frozen or cut. Profits will be reduced, and
:07:19. > :07:24.
:07:24. > :07:28.margins will be squeezed. So what should be done? Politicians
:07:28. > :07:32.are trying to put into effect policies to help to ease the effect
:07:32. > :07:36.of the crisis. President Obama is trying to help those in the United
:07:36. > :07:40.States that have been hardest hit, and politicians across Europe are
:07:40. > :07:45.trying to do the same thing. But the answer really relies upon each
:07:45. > :07:49.of us individually and how we handle our finances. There is no
:07:49. > :07:58.magical solution. The answer is really quite simple. Handle your
:07:58. > :08:03.money prudently, and build yourself a cash cushion. In difficult times,
:08:03. > :08:08.we all need to have cash, or an asset that we can quickly turn into
:08:08. > :08:14.cash. It can be your safety net, just in case you lose your job, or
:08:14. > :08:19.your salary is reduced. Now, I know there are people saying, I am
:08:19. > :08:23.already living on reduced means and having a hard time making ends meet.
:08:23. > :08:28.But you know what, you need to spend more thoughtfully and look
:08:28. > :08:31.for ways to save. You don't have to live on bread and water alone, but
:08:31. > :08:37.you can live on things you like by being more prudent with your
:08:37. > :08:41.spending. Alvin Hall joins us from that
:08:41. > :08:46.supermarket in central London, to our supermarket of ideas in
:08:46. > :08:52.Westminster. You are saying that despite the wall-to-wall coverage
:08:52. > :08:56.of this on the news channels and newspapers, the public still do not
:08:56. > :09:01.think they are going to be affected? No, if you look at
:09:01. > :09:05.newspapers they talk about property prices being up in London. People
:09:05. > :09:09.are feeling very secure, taking elaborate holidays. A lot of people
:09:09. > :09:14.feel it is a problem across the pond. When I come to London and
:09:14. > :09:18.England, I still get a sense that people do not quite see the depth
:09:18. > :09:22.of the crisis and how it could affect their lives. Do you think
:09:23. > :09:27.part of that is that the language that politicians and financial
:09:27. > :09:31.experts used, even journalists covering it, that it hampers
:09:31. > :09:35.understanding? That is one of the things, but I also think that a lot
:09:35. > :09:38.of the journalism is 2020 hindsight, looking at why we didn't go into
:09:39. > :09:45.the euro, why we made a great decision, not looking forward at
:09:45. > :09:49.the impact of the crisis. One of the things I have noticed is that
:09:49. > :09:53.you can now watch world markets moving in unison a lot of the time.
:09:53. > :09:57.One market is down, the next market is down, then one is up and the
:09:57. > :09:59.next one is of, a domino effect. You have a volatility in the
:09:59. > :10:03.marketplace and it is based on whether or not there is an
:10:03. > :10:07.agreement coming through that will lead to some unity, some support
:10:08. > :10:11.for the euro. I keep saying the crunch is about to come and yet
:10:11. > :10:16.they live to fight another day. When is it going to come, in your
:10:16. > :10:20.view? I will consult my crystal ball, my tea leaves, and I will
:10:20. > :10:25.tell you tomorrow. I think that is the thing that is so unusual about
:10:25. > :10:30.this. This there is no script for this. We have never been in a
:10:30. > :10:33.position like this. Exactly. People are looking for economists and
:10:33. > :10:37.experts to come up with the days something is going to happen, and
:10:37. > :10:40.it is not going to happen. What I am worried about four more people
:10:40. > :10:44.is that they are not planning for the fact that it could happen in
:10:44. > :10:48.their lives, it could affect their lives in some way that they do not
:10:49. > :10:53.expect because it is a global economy. Do you buy that line,
:10:53. > :10:56.Alan? If there was that independent trader in the week who said the
:10:56. > :11:05.world was not run by governments any more but it was run by Goldman
:11:05. > :11:09.Sachs. Was he for real? He has half the
:11:09. > :11:13.respondents saying that he was telling the truth. I think actually
:11:13. > :11:18.people in this country understand much more about this because they
:11:18. > :11:23.are feeling the effects. Having gone through this after 2008 with
:11:23. > :11:28.Lehman Brothers, most people thought it was behind them but
:11:28. > :11:32.actually there is a worse crisis looming. Maybe you need to pass on
:11:32. > :11:36.that primary economics you used to talk about. I can talk about the
:11:36. > :11:45.paradox of thrift, which militates against you telling people not to
:11:45. > :11:51.spend money. You made it to page two! Michael, you have left people
:11:51. > :11:55.in no doubt on this programme that you think it is really serious. But
:11:55. > :11:59.do you think the British still think they will be largely immune?
:11:59. > :12:04.Yes, I think of them all is right about that. There are two things
:12:04. > :12:07.about Britain which are different. One, we have been able to devalue,
:12:07. > :12:12.which no country inside the euro has been able to do and that has
:12:12. > :12:16.made our lives easier. Also, because the coalition has been
:12:16. > :12:20.taken seriously, we are able to borrow money cheaper than these
:12:20. > :12:25.other countries, able to fund the deficit. Money is flooding into
:12:25. > :12:30.London. We are not facing a reduction in our credit rating. So
:12:30. > :12:32.there are couple of objective differences. That said, yes, if the
:12:32. > :12:37.euro goes down the pan, Britain will feel the effects are very
:12:37. > :12:42.badly indeed. I have to ask this question because I was watching the
:12:42. > :12:46.news coverage today and the News Channel of the BBC, live at the
:12:46. > :12:50.German parliament for a vote. The vote was about the German
:12:50. > :12:56.parliament agreeing to a bail out of 440 billion euros, when
:12:56. > :13:05.everybody knows that it needs two trillium. Come the politicians fix
:13:05. > :13:08.this? -- can they fix it? They are working on two fronts. First, they
:13:08. > :13:12.are trying to convince the people who put them in office that it is
:13:12. > :13:16.the right thing to do. And then they work on a PR front, what can
:13:16. > :13:19.we do to show that we are looking forwards? The third front is, how
:13:20. > :13:24.can we get the newspapers on our side so they will write positive
:13:25. > :13:30.stories about this? That is a combination of PR and taking a
:13:30. > :13:34.series of small steps that seemed to be leading someplace. But if you
:13:34. > :13:38.know you need that much, why are you just allocating a fraction of
:13:38. > :13:43.it? Some people say the markets will take it into their own hands.
:13:43. > :13:48.Yes, they will drop or rise in response. But much of that is
:13:48. > :13:50.driven by speculation. That is a lovely Economic. But what has
:13:51. > :13:55.happened in Germany is that politicians persuaded the people to
:13:55. > :13:59.give up the German mark, which was a hard, substantial currency. They
:13:59. > :14:03.said, you will not suffer any discomfort at all. We are not going
:14:03. > :14:07.to bail anybody out, you will not put your hand in your pocket for
:14:07. > :14:15.any other country. They are breaking these promises. The only
:14:15. > :14:21.difference, whether they ask them for 400 billion, or two Trulli and.
:14:21. > :14:25.Maybe you are part of the problem. You said we should cap spending in
:14:25. > :14:30.preparation for the crash. If we all do that, it will certainly
:14:30. > :14:34.throw us into recession. I was actually very careful about that
:14:34. > :14:40.when we were shooting the breeze. I did not want to say people should
:14:40. > :14:44.always cut spending. I think it is important for people to have a
:14:44. > :14:48.financial safety net during this type of crisis. I have had friends
:14:48. > :14:53.who have been laid off from jobs. I have had friends whose income from
:14:53. > :14:56.business has dropped by 70%. I have had other friends who had a job one
:14:56. > :15:00.day and not the next. These people need something to keep them going
:15:00. > :15:05.until the next opportunity comes along. People need money and the
:15:05. > :15:09.bank. Yes, cash is not earning that much in the bank, but do you want
:15:09. > :15:12.to be exposed to the volatility of the stock market, or to know that
:15:12. > :15:21.you have something they're so that when the crisis hits, if it should,
:15:21. > :15:26.you can go on for up to nine If there is a flight to cash, which
:15:26. > :15:33.is what happens, that implies that the banks system is not safe again.
:15:33. > :15:36.Now remember that week in Lehman Brothers, you were worried? I was
:15:36. > :15:41.speaking to a German business, he has a vault in his office in which
:15:41. > :15:45.he keeps cash. He was aware in the week of the Lehman Brothers there
:15:45. > :15:50.is what a plan in Germany to close the banks, in other words, you
:15:50. > :15:54.could not go to the bank to draw automoney. In such an emergency
:15:54. > :15:59.plan it may exist in the future. It is not so much a question of having
:15:59. > :16:02.money in the bank, it is whether or not you have cash in the house.
:16:02. > :16:08.Where are you stashing your cash? won't tell you.
:16:08. > :16:12.I will put a stocking over my head and go around and get it. We do
:16:12. > :16:18.know what needs to be done. Greece has to take a massive default, the
:16:18. > :16:22.banks to be recapitalised and the liquidity pumped into the system?
:16:22. > :16:26.Exactly. But the Prime Minister of
:16:26. > :16:30.Luxembourg said we all know what we have to do, but we don't know how
:16:31. > :16:36.to do it. They do need a sensible and
:16:36. > :16:41.measured way for Greece to default and to recapitalise the banks. For
:16:41. > :16:44.Germany, it is one step at a Tim and let's not forget the political
:16:44. > :16:48.consequences of this. I was told that Martin McGuinness could do
:16:48. > :16:52.well in the Irish presidential elections as he will go on a
:16:52. > :16:58.nationalist ticket. And Le Pen in France will do well.
:16:58. > :17:03.The political fall-out from this. Exactly. Alvin, great to have you
:17:03. > :17:07.on the show. Now, did you know that women in
:17:07. > :17:14.Saudi Arabia are not allowed to vote -- are allowed to vote, but
:17:14. > :17:19.still not allowed to watch This Week. So, count your blessings,
:17:19. > :17:27.here is what they are missing, not only Sir David Frost but Girls
:17:27. > :17:32.Aloud singing star, Nicola Roberts. Don't forget the viewers' comments
:17:32. > :17:37.area for angry people who refuse to watch the show post their angry
:17:37. > :17:46.reasons for refusing to watch the show. As always, the price of a
:17:46. > :17:56.sparkling wine will be sparkling on Twitter much to the by wilderment
:17:56. > :18:06.of the Blue Nun office. The This Week team have had a joy
:18:06. > :18:06.
:18:06. > :18:14.to sit through five days of riveting daily and daily arguments
:18:14. > :18:18.while some like Harriet Harman bung off to the beach. You here is ance
:18:18. > :18:28.drew -- you guessed right, here is Andrew redundancy by with his
:18:28. > :18:41.
:18:41. > :18:46.At the general elections 16 months ago, the tide went out on Labour.
:18:46. > :18:50.The party going down to its second worst defield since the Second
:18:50. > :18:55.World War. The figures of their era in government swept away. There has
:18:55. > :19:00.been no sight and barely a mention of a Tony Blair Oregon here on
:19:00. > :19:04.Merseyside. The question is, is a new leadership with a ceb plan for
:19:04. > :19:14.power emerging -- with are credible plan for power emerging from the
:19:14. > :19:18.
:19:18. > :19:22.waters? One of the very biggest challenges for Labour is rebuilding
:19:22. > :19:27.its credibility on the economy. A part of doing that is ed a
:19:27. > :19:32.mything to some of its mistakes in government. So Shadow Chancellor,
:19:32. > :19:41.Ed Balls, and not a man to whom contradition comes that easily,
:19:41. > :19:46.confessed to some errors. The 75 p pension rise what a
:19:46. > :19:51.mistake, so was abolishing the tax rate. We did not spend every pound
:19:51. > :19:56.very well. And the banks have caused grows
:19:56. > :20:02.irresponsibility here in Britain and around the world. We made a
:20:02. > :20:06.mess, please elect us again. The idea is this, if Labour is
:20:06. > :20:10.willing to concede some of its mistakes, they hope that the verts
:20:10. > :20:13.are -- voters with willing to listen to some of their attacks on
:20:13. > :20:19.the coalition. Trying to get the deficit down
:20:19. > :20:23.faster. Choking off the recovery at the same time, those are not
:20:23. > :20:33.Labour's mistakes it they are David Cameron's mistakes and George
:20:33. > :20:37.Osborne's mistakes and Nick Clegg's mistakes.
:20:37. > :20:41.Personally, I like political speeches that have an argument,
:20:41. > :20:45.even if I don't agree with all of the argument, that's the sort of
:20:45. > :20:50.speech I like. Ed Miliband's speech to the Labour Conference certainly
:20:50. > :20:57.had lots of argument. But let me tell you what the 21
:20:57. > :21:00.century choice is, are you on the side of the wealth creators or the
:21:00. > :21:05.asset stripers? The producers or the creditors, producers train,
:21:05. > :21:09.invest, invent, sell. Things that Britain does brilliantly, but not
:21:09. > :21:16.enough. Creditors are interested in the fast buck. Taking what they can
:21:16. > :21:20.out of the business. He also introduced personal touches
:21:20. > :21:23.to convince sceptical voters you could be the son of a Marxist
:21:23. > :21:28.academic and work for Gordon Brown for many years and still remain
:21:28. > :21:37.human. The doctors tell me the operation
:21:37. > :21:40.was a phenomenal success! He a deviated sent um, it needed
:21:41. > :21:46.repoiinging, typical Labour leader, as soon as he is elected,
:21:46. > :21:51.everything moves to the centre! was not the sort of mesmerising
:21:51. > :21:56.speech that Tony Blair at his best could deliver. I asked several
:21:56. > :22:03.senior Labour figures if Ed Miliband could grow into being a
:22:03. > :22:13.great orator, I tended to get this response... My message to the
:22:13. > :22:25.
:22:25. > :22:29.A power failure inside the conference centre interrupted the
:22:29. > :22:34.live showing of the speech, but most people watched the highlights,
:22:34. > :22:38.but what does matter is this, when it comes to making big speeches,
:22:38. > :22:44.his talent is, let us say, a work in progress.
:22:44. > :22:49.When I heard this in the debate, I understand this, but it wouldn't be
:22:49. > :22:59.responsible to make promises I can't keep. That's Nick Clegg's
:22:59. > :23:05.
:23:05. > :23:10.job! The message has potential, but the messenger still has lots of
:23:10. > :23:15.work to do coming out with plausible policies and winning over
:23:15. > :23:18.a mistrusting electorate. If he fails, well, then, someone else
:23:18. > :23:24.will be the next Labour Prime Minister, perhaps this 16-year-old
:23:24. > :23:29.who wowed the conference. I owe my entire well being and my
:23:30. > :23:35.family's to the welfare state. That is why I joined the Labour Party,
:23:35. > :23:39.but that same welfare state is being ruthlessly ripped apart by a
:23:39. > :23:44.right-wing government. David Cameron's conference is not
:23:44. > :23:48.far from here next week. Only a fool or a liar would
:23:48. > :23:58.confidently predict which way the tide will turn. I'll say this, the
:23:58. > :24:01.
:24:01. > :24:05.From the beach back to our studio, with that living ledge thaend is
:24:05. > :24:09.broadcaster David Frost. Welcome. What a week.
:24:09. > :24:16.We have waited for years. Now we have got you.
:24:16. > :24:21.It is a privilege to be here. Now, I spent the week in Liverpool
:24:21. > :24:26.interviewing various politician, you spent a career interview k
:24:26. > :24:29.every Prime Minister, several Presidents, Mikhail Gorbachev,
:24:29. > :24:34.Vladimir Putin. When you interview them in their early careers can you
:24:34. > :24:41.spot a leader in the making? not sure. There are certain things
:24:41. > :24:46.if you see someone who conagain etally all the while is kissing
:24:46. > :24:50.babies, you know he is training for leadership. Certainly you can tell
:24:50. > :24:54.almost invariably, afterwards. I don't know about you. People who
:24:54. > :24:58.have been in power are in some way slightly different. They carry
:24:58. > :25:01.themselves slightly differently and so on. If you looked at David
:25:01. > :25:06.Cameron, he carries himself slightly differently now than he
:25:06. > :25:10.did two or three years ago, so on and so forth. You can see that
:25:10. > :25:16.after, when they have had power or have power. Spotting it really is
:25:16. > :25:19.difficult. It is ambition. I mean the two things politicians need to
:25:19. > :25:27.be leaders is trust, obviously and competence.
:25:27. > :25:31.Both of those things. In America they are very, very clever. Leaders
:25:31. > :25:35.prepare themselves. One thing that our leaders don't do is self
:25:35. > :25:39.deprication. You can get away with anything in America if you use self
:25:39. > :25:43.deprication. That is not a technique that is used here as
:25:43. > :25:47.often as they ought to, really. Have you ever got it wrong? Have
:25:47. > :25:52.you ever interviewed somebody and thought they are never going to
:25:52. > :25:56.make it and they ended up the President or the Prime Minister or
:25:56. > :26:03.important? Well, I, John Lindsey in New York, the other way around,
:26:03. > :26:08.really. He was republican, of course, he looked like JF Kennedy.
:26:08. > :26:13.He looked like the republican's answer to John F Kennedy. We all
:26:13. > :26:18.thought he was, that he must be, but as one interviewed him, one
:26:18. > :26:23.found for some reason you know that the Mantell didn't come off and the
:26:23. > :26:28.frank person did not come through and he never delivered what
:26:28. > :26:33.everybody, all of us in the media thought that he was the certain to
:26:33. > :26:37.the leader, the bizarre thing is that taxi drivers in New York hated
:26:37. > :26:45.him. Eight years afterwards, I remember being in a taxi, eight
:26:45. > :26:53.years after he creased to be the Mayor and the taxi driver said to
:26:53. > :26:59.me, "That bloody Lindsay..." And he lost. He was incredibly handsome,
:26:59. > :27:07.he throst a little, fattings balding Italian, whose campaign
:27:07. > :27:11.slogan was: Had enough of charisma? I was on Question Time with robin
:27:11. > :27:16.Day in 1987 with Tony Blair. Tony Blair had just come into Parliament.
:27:16. > :27:22.I had come into Parliament recently. When we were assembling for the
:27:22. > :27:28.programme, I could tell that Robin Day was in a filthy mood. I asked
:27:28. > :27:34.the editor what was wrong with him. She said he was cross as he had
:27:34. > :27:39.hefrnaerd of -- heard of the panellists on the show! How big a
:27:39. > :27:42.disadvantage is it, Alan, that many, many people, according to the polls
:27:42. > :27:47.just can't imagine Ed Miliband as the Prime Minister? I don't think
:27:47. > :27:50.it is a disadvantage at this stage. If you look at how many people
:27:50. > :27:54.thought that Margaret Thatcher would be a good Prime Minister when
:27:54. > :27:58.she was a year into the opposition, there were not many.
:27:59. > :28:04.You cannot judge Tony Blair and David Cameron. They came in after
:28:04. > :28:08.four election defeats, and three election defeats in Cameron's case.
:28:08. > :28:11.So coming in straight after an election defeat it is really
:28:11. > :28:16.difficult. I really, really liked Ed Miliband's speech this week.
:28:16. > :28:23.Did you like it for the way that he delivered or for the message?
:28:23. > :28:29.tell you why, he needed to do a sketch, not a painting. It was a da
:28:29. > :28:32.Vinci cartoon, not a Mona Lisa. He needed to set out a left of centre
:28:32. > :28:39.perspective of the cames that we live in. He didn't need to set out
:28:39. > :28:43.a shopping list, that would be wrong, but he did that, he did it
:28:43. > :28:46.with authenticity. You cannot ask for me at the end of your first
:28:46. > :28:50.year as the Leader of the Opposition.
:28:50. > :28:53.But Michael, as the Tories found out the hard way with William Hague
:28:53. > :29:00.and Iain Duncan Smith, sometimes the public gets an impression in
:29:00. > :29:03.its mind from the start, you then cannot shift it? I agree. Leader of
:29:03. > :29:08.the Opposition go into nose dive and you are unable to pull out of
:29:08. > :29:12.it. That is characteristic of William Hague and Ed Miliband. I
:29:12. > :29:14.think that Margaret Thatcher was a completely different case. She was
:29:14. > :29:19.clearly from the start an extraordinary individual. It was
:29:19. > :29:24.not a question of whether she had the talent, the charisma, the drive,
:29:24. > :29:34.the dynamism, she had it all, but could you elect that package of
:29:34. > :29:36.
:29:36. > :29:41.Maybe there is hope for Ed Miliband, if you look back to the whole News
:29:41. > :29:46.of the World affair. For that period, he revived. His poles went
:29:46. > :29:53.up, people respected him for his stance. Since then, they have gone
:29:53. > :30:00.down again. But I don't think you can write "finished" on his career.
:30:00. > :30:09.That would be absurd. But in this age of TV, of will people listen to
:30:09. > :30:13.a message if they do think the messenger is a bit weird? I found
:30:13. > :30:18.that word "weird" in the papers this week rather weird. I had not
:30:18. > :30:24.been expecting to see that. I don't think if they thought people really
:30:24. > :30:28.were weird, I think the personality has got to come through. I think it
:30:28. > :30:35.has to come through to be - Trust and competence are the two things
:30:35. > :30:41.that matter. There has to be trust. As you say, with a weird person,
:30:41. > :30:47.trust would be rather difficult. You were regarded as one of the few
:30:47. > :30:52.frontline politicians that was normal. Is it a problem for Ed
:30:52. > :30:58.Miliband - a weird is kind of an insulting word - but he is not
:30:58. > :31:03.regarded as normal in the way people regard you as normal. Down
:31:03. > :31:10.to earth. Perhaps they do not know him as well. I was around for much
:31:10. > :31:16.longer. He is not weird at all. He is a decent human being who looks
:31:16. > :31:20.very good in a suit, by the way, if we are going by those descriptions.
:31:20. > :31:23.He is putting the Tony Blair, Gordon Brown era behind him and
:31:24. > :31:29.saying, I do not want to do what Cameron did, going to the Arctic
:31:29. > :31:35.with huskies, and I do not want the spin of Tony Blair. This is what I
:31:35. > :31:38.believe. It is very important -- authentic, and it is important for
:31:38. > :31:41.the electorate. The weird stuff comes from people who are
:31:41. > :31:47.viscerally hostile to Ed Miliband and Labour and whatever he does
:31:47. > :31:51.they would be saying that. I think he has struck a chord. He set a
:31:51. > :31:54.very high bar, because at conferences e did not say, I am
:31:54. > :31:59.unknown and untried but I would like you to vote for me, I want to
:31:59. > :32:04.be the next Government, he is saying more than that. He said, and
:32:04. > :32:08.the era has come to an end and I represent a completely new way of
:32:08. > :32:14.doing things. For someone who is yet to convince that he could run
:32:14. > :32:18.the country on a day-to-day basis, that is a big ask. Well, he set out
:32:18. > :32:24.the left of centre vision for how he sees the world developing after
:32:24. > :32:34.this enormous crisis. But he does not admit to left of centre, does
:32:34. > :32:40.
:32:40. > :32:47.he? He is worried about being -- red Ed Miliband. But we do need
:32:47. > :32:53.a left of centre idea. His big idea is predators of verses producers.
:32:53. > :32:57.If you take that into financial services, Adair Turner said that a
:32:57. > :33:02.lot of what financial-services do is useless. There is a big debate
:33:02. > :33:06.about what society we want. Except the taxes that they paid just pay
:33:06. > :33:10.for all the schools and hospitals. Not the old debate about communism
:33:10. > :33:14.against capitalism. It is capitalism, but people do not want
:33:14. > :33:20.this rapacious, promiscuous capitalism they are seeing at the
:33:20. > :33:24.moment. I think there is a point there. There are different sorts of
:33:24. > :33:27.capitalism. When he says there are family businesses which are quite
:33:27. > :33:30.patrician and they put stuff back, and others who are coming in and
:33:30. > :33:35.making a quick buck and disappearing, ripping the heart out
:33:35. > :33:39.of Southern Cross, those care homes, for example, that is true. What I
:33:39. > :33:44.thought was extraordinary about his speech was the amateur nature of
:33:45. > :33:49.the bits that mattered. How could that line, and not Tony Blair, I am
:33:49. > :33:53.not Gordon Brown, I am my own man, how could that have gone well? What
:33:53. > :33:58.was the correct reaction from the audience? Were they meant to cheer,
:33:58. > :34:04.saying they did not like Tony Blair? There should not have been a
:34:04. > :34:10.pause. I do not think anybody was in any doubt that he is not Tony
:34:10. > :34:17.Blair. On a number of different levels! I do not understand all
:34:17. > :34:21.that stuff about good firms and bad firms. How do you decide that?
:34:21. > :34:25.spent the whole week - other than Southern Cross and Rolls-Royce, I
:34:25. > :34:28.spent the whole week trying to work out who were the producers and who
:34:28. > :34:36.were the predators. I speak as a failed man. What will David Cameron
:34:36. > :34:40.be thinking watching one of this? He will be well satisfied. Although
:34:40. > :34:45.Allen makes a good defence of it, on the whole the press was hostile.
:34:45. > :34:53.The Daily Mail said it was impressive. The Daily Mail said it
:34:53. > :34:58.was impressive. I must have missed that. The frost-Nixon interviews,
:34:58. > :35:03.voted the world's greatest ever interview. They obviously did not
:35:03. > :35:11.see me and Diane Abbott on private schools. Fantastic! And they are
:35:11. > :35:14.showing them again this weekend. is a real thrill, on BBC Two it is
:35:14. > :35:21.Frost-mixer night on Saturday night. There is an interview with Joan
:35:21. > :35:25.Bakewell, who is brilliant. -- Frost-Nixon. And then the actual
:35:25. > :35:29.real Watergate interview, and then the movie. It is right that there
:35:29. > :35:35.came a moment when you knew he wanted to confess, you knew that he
:35:35. > :35:39.wanted to tell you the whole thing? No. I don't think I knew that until
:35:39. > :35:44.he did. I knew that I wanted to get into, but until it happened, I did
:35:44. > :35:49.not fully believe it. I was determined, I was optimistic, but
:35:49. > :35:54.until it actually happened... And at the end of that two and a half
:35:54. > :35:57.hours, we were both drenched with exhaustion at the end of it.
:35:57. > :36:01.will have to leave it there but I will be watching on Saturday night.
:36:01. > :36:05.Great to have you on the programme. Now you have to come back. It is a
:36:05. > :36:08.pleasure. Now, we know what it's like to be
:36:08. > :36:11.the victim, forever dodging the journalistic jocks from Newsnight
:36:11. > :36:15.and Today who swan around like they own the place, copying our scripts,
:36:15. > :36:18.poking fun at our graphics, giving us wedgies in the BBC locker room!
:36:18. > :36:21.Damn you, Humphreys! We may be mocked as the seven-stone weakling
:36:21. > :36:24.of political programmes, but when Scotland Yard this week demanded we
:36:24. > :36:29.hand over footage of blatant criminal behaviour we refused to be
:36:29. > :36:34.intimidated. So what if Michael's fashion crimes that are his shirts
:36:34. > :36:44.prove Britain is broken? Don't expect us to grass him to the feds.
:36:44. > :36:50.
:36:50. > :36:54.But we are prepared to put bullying She had some texts from a number
:36:54. > :36:58.she did not recognise, basically saying, we are watching you and you
:36:58. > :37:03.look lovely when you are sleeping. She was worried and I said, nothing
:37:03. > :37:09.can happen to you at school. Bullying can start in the classroom
:37:09. > :37:14.but can also reach the top in politics. Ed Balls' wife, Yvette
:37:14. > :37:18.Cooper, insisted her children took her surname to avoid schoolyard
:37:18. > :37:24.taunts, but this week her husband admitted he was no goody-two-shoes
:37:24. > :37:33.when in government. Was there a bullying swagger around as well, do
:37:33. > :37:38.you think? I think... Yes, a little bit. But what happens when the
:37:38. > :37:44.public start to pick on you? Ed Miliband is finding it not easy
:37:44. > :37:50.being a bit of a geek. The word that crops up most often
:37:50. > :38:00.in focus groups is "weird". Is that a problem? I think I am a pretty
:38:00. > :38:05.normal. It is not just politicians who are tormented. Some say that
:38:05. > :38:11.the King of Pop felt harassed into performing a final curtain call. So,
:38:11. > :38:15.are we a nation that loves an easy target, at least on this week we
:38:15. > :38:19.like to look out for the little guys. We are joined by Nicola
:38:19. > :38:23.Roberts formerly of Girls Aloud, who has a new solo album out which
:38:23. > :38:31.is getting great reviews. One of the songs, I am told, is about
:38:31. > :38:36.bullying. Why is that? There is a song called Sticks and Stones. It
:38:36. > :38:42.is a personal situation that I found myself in. It was some time
:38:42. > :38:46.ago. And I wrote the song quite universally, and I really wrote it
:38:46. > :38:50.because I did not want people to feel like they were necessary on
:38:50. > :38:55.their own in a situation. I think whatever it may be at home, we all
:38:55. > :38:59.have something we might be going through. Whatever it maybe.
:38:59. > :39:04.Sometimes we feel we are the only person in the world that is going
:39:04. > :39:10.through it. And I really believe in a problem shared is a problem
:39:10. > :39:13.halved. It was to help other people? Exactly. I think the
:39:13. > :39:20.response I have had since we put the song out has been quite
:39:20. > :39:27.incredible. Is it true that you experienced bullying even after you
:39:27. > :39:36.had become successful? It is kind of a very difficult for me to sort
:39:36. > :39:44.of say something like that. I found myself in a vulnerable position
:39:44. > :39:49.that was not very nice. I think it is important that we highlight it.
:39:49. > :39:54.But this was not when you were a schoolgirl. No, this was once I
:39:54. > :40:01.found myself in the public eye. That will surprise people. Yeah, I
:40:01. > :40:05.suppose. It can happen to anybody. It is so out of control. Society is
:40:05. > :40:09.very quick to judge these days. I think it is very out of control.
:40:09. > :40:15.One of the good things about Twitter is that I am, not
:40:15. > :40:19.necessarily good, but it highlights the severity of the problem.
:40:19. > :40:26.Constantly I am finding tweets talking about people's Prso
:40:26. > :40:31.situations, whether it is at school, people being scared to go to school.
:40:31. > :40:37.-- people's personal situations. Even in the workplace. It really
:40:37. > :40:43.angers me. I do not like to think that there are people out there
:40:43. > :40:48.that really feel not great about themselves. And you feel very alone
:40:48. > :40:51.when you are being bullied, don't you? Yes, and I don't think anybody
:40:51. > :40:56.is in a position to make somebody else feel like that about
:40:56. > :41:00.themselves. It really annoys me. Part of the problem is that those
:41:00. > :41:06.with the reputation for being bullies - Gordon Brown, Ed Balls,
:41:06. > :41:10.Alex Ferguson, they seem to do rather well in our society. I think
:41:10. > :41:14.there is a difference. I think what Nicola is talking about is in a
:41:14. > :41:20.different league. We bandy the term poorly around as if it applies to
:41:20. > :41:23.his strong football manager, but there are people in our society who
:41:23. > :41:27.lofted humiliate individuals and love a group of people around them
:41:27. > :41:34.to applaud them for that humiliation. With the internet and
:41:34. > :41:41.tweeting and mobile phones, they have found new ways to do it. That
:41:41. > :41:45.is in a different league. It is all about ego and positioning. What
:41:45. > :41:53.would your message be to some youngsters watching who are being
:41:53. > :42:01.bullied? It is really difficult. I would really just say that you have
:42:01. > :42:08.to turn it around. You can't admire the people who are able to say
:42:08. > :42:12.nasty things so frivolously. It is not admirable. Effectively, you are
:42:12. > :42:19.the nicer person and you should hold on to that. You should try to
:42:19. > :42:24.talk to someone, shouldn't you? Try to share it. Absolutely. It is so
:42:24. > :42:29.out of control in schools. I would like to speak to somebody.
:42:29. > :42:33.think it is really bad in schools? Yes, and there needs to be more of
:42:33. > :42:40.a support system. I get tweets every day saying, I am terrified to
:42:40. > :42:43.go to school. You are helpless. is a terrible thing. It can stunt
:42:43. > :42:48.anybody's development and lead to terrible things. Michael, a quick
:42:48. > :42:51.thought. I think it is one of the most wretched things possible to
:42:51. > :42:55.happen. The idea that people are terrified to go to the office, I
:42:55. > :42:59.think there is a great deal of it and ultimately, as you say, it
:42:59. > :43:03.leads to a loss of self-worth, and even in the worst cases to people
:43:03. > :43:09.committing suicide. It is a horrible problem. Thank you for
:43:09. > :43:13.coming. Thank you. I was going to say good luck with your solo album
:43:13. > :43:17.but I don't think you need my luck. Thank you.
:43:17. > :43:19.That's your lot, folks, but we end with glorious news. After
:43:19. > :43:22.protracted negotiations, the noble Baron Prescott of Kingston upon
:43:23. > :43:26.Hull will be descending from the vastness of his Northern throne
:43:26. > :43:30.next week to join us on our humble sofa, making up for missing the
:43:30. > :43:33.party conference, where he was notable by his absence. As was the
:43:34. > :43:37.former great leader! Yes, the invisible man of British politics,
:43:37. > :43:41.Gordon Brown, is still refusing to play the game, despite being paid