:00:17. > :00:21.Tonight, This Week presents political Autumnwatch. Will the
:00:21. > :00:25.blue fox survive? The Defence Secretary, fobg Fox is under
:00:25. > :00:29.pressure over his relation -- Liam Fox is under pressure over his
:00:29. > :00:36.relationship with his best man. Anne McElvoy has been waiting for
:00:36. > :00:41.him to break cover. That crafty old urban fox has been causing mayhem
:00:42. > :00:50.in the Tory chicken coup. We're on his tail. Job spotting has become
:00:50. > :00:55.more difficult as unemployment rises to a 17-year high. Music
:00:55. > :00:59.superstar Wyclef Jean tells us why politics matters more in tough
:00:59. > :01:08.economic times. Politics matters, because politics is the only way to
:01:08. > :01:16.get things done. Keeping out of sight - the art of
:01:16. > :01:22.the political adviser. Nigel Planer looks for comedy in
:01:22. > :01:27.the hedgerows. One thing I have learnt by playing Peter Mandelson
:01:27. > :01:34.is keep your friends close, keep your advisers closer. Binoculars at
:01:34. > :01:41.the ready! Evening all. Welcome to This Week.
:01:41. > :01:47.A week of improbable stories like the one about the car salesman from
:01:47. > :01:55.Texas known as scar face who tried to hire a Mexican drugs cartel to
:01:55. > :02:01.blow up a restaurant in Washington, DC where the ambassador ate his waf
:02:01. > :02:04.fells. It almost sound believable, compared to the one about the self-
:02:05. > :02:12.styled political adviser to the Defence Secretary, Liam Fox. Known
:02:12. > :02:17.to his only friend as Adam Werritty, whose entire career has mirrored
:02:17. > :02:23.Liam Fox's every professional move. He printed up his own make believe
:02:23. > :02:29.business cards, appearing to operate on an off the books policy.
:02:29. > :02:33.Passing himself as a go-between, gaining access to Fox's
:02:33. > :02:40.departmental diary. Jetting around the globe to meet up with him on 18
:02:40. > :02:44.occasions since the election. Paid for by a motly collection of
:02:44. > :02:50.ideological fill lan introduce pists, who ever they are. And why
:02:50. > :02:52.and this is the killer line, being not a dependant on any
:02:52. > :02:58.transactional behaviour to maintain his income.
:02:58. > :03:01.What does that mean in English? Clearly drafted by a very well paid
:03:01. > :03:07.lawyer. Liam Fox now regrets he allowed the impression of wrong
:03:07. > :03:12.doing to arise. The Secretary of State stood by and gazed into the
:03:12. > :03:16.middle distance as the impression of wrongdoing went about its own
:03:16. > :03:20.business. Speaking about those who use words to get themselves off the
:03:20. > :03:26.hook I am joined by two of Westminster's least convincing
:03:26. > :03:32.witnesses, the deaf, blind and drunk of late political chat. It is
:03:32. > :03:40.Michael Portillo and Alan Johnson. Good evening. Very dumbed down
:03:40. > :03:44.shirts. Do you mean toned down, rather than dumbed down?
:03:44. > :03:49.OK then, give me a moment. The Care Quality Commission looked into the
:03:49. > :03:54.care of the elderly in NHS hospitals. They looked at 100. 55
:03:54. > :03:57.of them failed. One in five, the treatment of the elderly was
:03:57. > :04:03.outside the law. It was against the law. They had neglected the
:04:03. > :04:06.patients. It struck me this follows a recent report about the failures
:04:06. > :04:12.of abdominal surgery in NHS hospitals. The death rate is four
:04:12. > :04:17.times as high as in the United States. Of course we have the Mid
:04:17. > :04:21.Staffs things where 1,000 patients died, surplus to what was the case.
:04:21. > :04:25.Horrendous. If you look at cancer survival rates they are worse in
:04:25. > :04:30.this country than other countries. I tell you what strikes me, the
:04:30. > :04:33.Government, I saw it in the Prime Minister's speech. It goes on
:04:33. > :04:37.saying more and more money nor the NHS, yet they are trying to reform
:04:37. > :04:42.it. You wonder if it would not be better to say, look our NHS is not
:04:42. > :04:45.doing the job. It is doing worse than other health systems in
:04:45. > :04:50.continental countries that is why we have to reform it. Someone on
:04:50. > :04:58.Question Time said tonight, get it real, it is not the envy of the
:04:58. > :05:02.world. I think your catalogue of wows may be the reason why it isn't.
:05:02. > :05:09.My moment, I think a step forward for grown-up politics. Yesterday
:05:09. > :05:12.was opposition day, which means we laid the motion. Our motion drew
:05:12. > :05:16.attention to the mess the Government are making of the
:05:16. > :05:21.economy. What the Government generally does to one of these
:05:21. > :05:25.amendments we put down they have cocked up the economy. The
:05:25. > :05:29.Government put down an amendment which says is the most fantastic,
:05:29. > :05:33.wise Government ever in the history of Parliament. Do you know,
:05:33. > :05:38.yesterday the Government didn't do that? They allowed us to debate,
:05:38. > :05:40.not end up with a North Korean amendment. I think, good for the
:05:41. > :05:45.Government. They may not do well on the economy, but they are doing
:05:45. > :05:51.very well on making Parliament a much more mature debating place.
:05:51. > :05:58.Maybe they were hoping to pick up ideas. Now politicians often have a
:05:58. > :06:01.bit of rough. Sorry, often have a bit of a rough time. And not just
:06:01. > :06:06.from me. The Troubles of the world are laid at their feet. When there
:06:06. > :06:11.is no-one else to blame we pile it at their door. I know, your heart
:06:11. > :06:19.is bleeding now into your little glass of Blue Nun. Politics is a
:06:19. > :06:24.mug's game. Why, you might ask, did Wyclef Jean decide last year, when
:06:24. > :06:30.his native Haiti was in trouble, to run for President? Surely he had
:06:30. > :06:40.better things to do than get embroiled in politics? No, here is
:06:40. > :06:49.
:06:49. > :06:53.# Election time's coming # Politics matter. If you want to change
:06:53. > :06:57.something around the world, no matter how much you want to sing
:06:57. > :07:03.and talk about it has to go through a Parliament, a Congress.
:07:03. > :07:08.# They go back to work on Monday # I ran for President because over
:07:08. > :07:12.51% of the population is a youth population. So, if we're talking
:07:12. > :07:17.about a reconstruction of a country. The youth population should be
:07:17. > :07:26.included in that. When I myself decided I was running for President,
:07:26. > :07:30.I was like, Wyclef don't do it, you can do much more than not being
:07:30. > :07:33.President. We cannot sit around and sing songs. If we keep doing that
:07:33. > :07:38.the Parliaments, the Congress, they're going to do exactly what
:07:38. > :07:44.they want to do. And not listen to the voice of the vit Seines.
:07:44. > :07:49.-- citizens. What I learnt when I ran for the
:07:49. > :07:58.presidency of Haiti is it's more popular to be a rock star than to
:07:58. > :08:03.be, than to run for President. The kind of people that we need as
:08:03. > :08:09.politicians are thinkers that are thinking for the future when it
:08:09. > :08:14.comes to energy, when it comes to job creation, technology, but how
:08:14. > :08:19.can we do it differently? I think we need new thinkers for a new way
:08:19. > :08:23.of politics. The first things the politicians
:08:23. > :08:27.must learn is how to get their swagger up. You know, and swagger
:08:27. > :08:31.means you have to have that certain charm about you, that certain
:08:31. > :08:35.charisma about you. Do you know what I mean? For example, President
:08:35. > :08:45.Barack Obama, at times when he was running for the first term, I am
:08:45. > :08:46.
:08:46. > :08:53.sure you saw him do this. Now this is swag. He got it from Jay Z.
:08:53. > :08:57.What turns people off politics is basically the citizen feels that
:08:57. > :09:02.every politicians do exactly what they need to do to get elected.
:09:02. > :09:10.They say exactly what you said and once they get elected the
:09:10. > :09:16.population feels there's no change. If you want to get things done in
:09:16. > :09:20.the sense of stamping it, you want to get legislation. You want to
:09:20. > :09:29.change policy. You have to be part of a political structure to make
:09:29. > :09:34.that happen. Wyclef Jean joins us here in our
:09:34. > :09:40.studio. Welcome to the programme. Thank you. It is refreshing to hear,
:09:40. > :09:47.I mean musicians have got involved in politics, it has either been
:09:47. > :09:51.single issue or eeg go led. It is interesting to hear that you say it
:09:51. > :10:00.is political process. I still have my musician eye. Looking at you
:10:00. > :10:06.three I think I could recreate the Fujis.
:10:06. > :10:12.He doesn't know who they are! You think it's important to get
:10:12. > :10:18.involved in the process. I think we, as musicians, what we do is we sing
:10:18. > :10:24.policy all the time. Artists like John Lennon and different artys and
:10:24. > :10:31.Bob Mali. -- Marley. You have to engage in the politics.
:10:31. > :10:37.Why at the time you choose, why did you get in, particularly Haiti
:10:37. > :10:44.politics, it is a murky world. is a murky world, but looking at
:10:44. > :10:48.Nelson man del da and Martin Luther King, at the time when an
:10:48. > :10:55.earthquake are buried under rubble and we are talking about
:10:55. > :11:00.reconstruction of a country. I say 52% of the population is a youth
:11:00. > :11:06.population, I felt they had to be included in the reconstruction.
:11:06. > :11:11.This was an opportunity for job creation. Some musicians get
:11:11. > :11:15.involved in raising money for charities, Band-Aid being famous.
:11:15. > :11:19.Others have their own axe to griepbld. This was different for
:11:19. > :11:24.you though -- grind. This was different for you. You running for
:11:24. > :11:30.office, I assume would have to have a set of policies a platform to run
:11:30. > :11:34.on? Definitely. A lot underestimated me, just to be frank
:11:34. > :11:41.with you. I didn't get a chance to make it. I got taken out of the
:11:41. > :11:47.residency, the fact they said you need five years residency. I did
:11:47. > :11:51.have a policy plan. I didn't get to that point where I could share the
:11:51. > :11:55.future of the country. They were scared of you? I think what happens
:11:55. > :12:01.is when it comes to real change and real things to happen, I thought
:12:01. > :12:04.that the fear came from the fact that I have enough allys in the
:12:04. > :12:08.world that actually I could have rallied up to actually make a
:12:08. > :12:13.change. I can see that. Surprising for a musician to get
:12:14. > :12:19.involved in the process rather than the Grandstanding? Yes, I entirely
:12:19. > :12:23.agree with you Andrew that it is really refreshing. A lot of people
:12:23. > :12:26.are pretty intellectually lazy about this and say, all politics is
:12:26. > :12:30.correct. Actually, you know there have been many attempts in the
:12:30. > :12:33.world to change things, avoiding political processes and avoiding
:12:33. > :12:36.political parties. For example, when the United States was first
:12:36. > :12:39.established they did not have political parties. No, they thought
:12:39. > :12:44.they were a bad thing. They thought they were terrible things. Within
:12:44. > :12:48.20 years they had to have political parties. There is no other way to
:12:48. > :12:55.get groups of people around a programme which will be effective.
:12:55. > :12:59.I was reading today the last royal governor of said the easiest thing
:12:59. > :13:02.in the world is to convince people that their Government is bad. It is
:13:02. > :13:06.very, very toz make people despondent and cynical about
:13:06. > :13:11.politics. If you are going to have change and believe in democracy,
:13:11. > :13:14.then the only thing to do is get involved. If you think that the
:13:14. > :13:24.politicians you have today are a group of people, then by all means
:13:24. > :13:28.
:13:28. > :13:35.You mentioned John Lennon - this naivety was frustrating for me as a
:13:35. > :13:40.postman on a council estate. You could see you had to join the
:13:40. > :13:43.political system - it demanded that you had to get power. You had to be
:13:43. > :13:49.in Parliament. You had to have a programme. It seemed as if it was
:13:49. > :13:54.too much trouble to do that. It is amazingly encouraging. I wonder
:13:55. > :14:01.about this point that you have to have swagger. That is the view of
:14:01. > :14:06.Obama, Tony Blair. You can't get elected unless you have got this
:14:06. > :14:13.charisma. I wonder, there's lots of very good people who could do very
:14:13. > :14:22.good things but won't past that -- won't pass that swagger test.
:14:22. > :14:26.Einstein had real cool swagger. We rate Einstein. When I say "swagger"
:14:26. > :14:30.- swagger is not necessarily within just the charisma. Swagger is if
:14:30. > :14:35.you are a politician, you have to be able to communicate with the
:14:35. > :14:42.citizen. The citizen has to just feel that what you are giving out
:14:42. > :14:47.is not bogus. Yeah. In that term, that is where the politicians lack.
:14:47. > :14:51.They are not connecting with the public. This is where the trouble
:14:51. > :14:56.starts. Isn't it true that in general, on both sides of the
:14:57. > :15:01.Atlantic, there is a general increased cynicism about politics
:15:01. > :15:07.and politicians and real belief that not - it doesn't matter who
:15:07. > :15:12.you thought for that not much will change? Yes. That comes from a view
:15:12. > :15:15.that politics is about politicians. Politics is about the people. If
:15:15. > :15:20.you think it is simply - there is a group of people who do politics and
:15:20. > :15:24.you have no way of influencing them, then the game is over. In a
:15:24. > :15:30.democracy, anybody can be a politician. I mean, he began as a
:15:30. > :15:34.postman and I began - I don't know what I began as. A politician!
:15:34. > :15:39.didn't come from a political dynasty. My father was a Spanish
:15:39. > :15:44.immigrant. We are both people who came into it. Anybody else, you
:15:44. > :15:48.know, potentially can come into it. Politics has to be about the people.
:15:48. > :15:51.I would suggest the lesson from your experience - you decided to
:15:51. > :15:55.get involved in your country's politics as a time of great crisis
:15:55. > :16:00.in the country. You could argue that although it is very different
:16:00. > :16:04.that on both sides of the Atlantic this is a time of economic crisis.
:16:04. > :16:08.Rather than people being switched off, they ought to get more
:16:08. > :16:18.involved? Definite I will have to get more involved. We need to stop
:16:18. > :16:18.
:16:18. > :16:21.fighting. We need a bi-partisan front. We have financial crises
:16:21. > :16:25.through the entire world. Starvation rate, you see what is
:16:25. > :16:29.going on. Once again, if you are getting into politics, you want
:16:29. > :16:33.things to change. Remember, there is a group of people that elect you
:16:33. > :16:36.to do a job and that is why you get into politics. You can never think
:16:36. > :16:42.that you are bigger than these people. Now, if you two had your
:16:42. > :16:49.chance to do it again, would you go into politics again? I would, yeah.
:16:49. > :16:53.I was reflecting there about the world trade, the way that people
:16:53. > :16:59.are kept starving in poorer countries because Japan has a huge
:16:59. > :17:04.tariff on rice imports. We tried to change that. So many young people
:17:04. > :17:08.got involved with Make Poverty History. And the fact it dragged on
:17:08. > :17:13.probably meant that many of those turned away from politics. If we
:17:13. > :17:18.could only instead of it being a single issue, get people engage and
:17:18. > :17:23.see the process through. Would you, Michael? I certainly would. There
:17:23. > :17:28.is a lot of stress in politics. The press gives you a very hard time.
:17:28. > :17:31.Your political career will end in tears. It is such a privilege to be
:17:31. > :17:38.involved. The canvas is so broad. You are dealing with such big
:17:38. > :17:44.issues. It is a great honour to do it. Why are you in Britain?
:17:44. > :17:49.here for Party in the Pink and Breakthrough Breast Cancer. Zumba
:17:49. > :17:53.is very important. I suggest you all get into it. It is dancing
:17:53. > :17:57.fitness, it keeps you in top shape and on Sundayly be performing. The
:17:58. > :18:03.cool thing about fitness is there are -- on Sunday I will be
:18:03. > :18:11.performing. The cool thing about fitness is there are fun ways to do
:18:11. > :18:14.it. If you need help forming a group, we are available.
:18:14. > :18:20.# One time # Two time... #
:18:20. > :18:25.We could do that! Speak to my agent! Now, it may be later than a
:18:25. > :18:31.knighthood for Bruce Forsyth, because coming up actor, novelist,
:18:31. > :18:35.playwright, all round showbiz polymath Nigel Planer telling us
:18:35. > :18:45.why Peter Mandelson deserves some overdue affection. For those who
:18:45. > :18:45.
:18:45. > :18:52.like to spread the love wider, there is our interweb site. We have
:18:52. > :18:58.now signed up to some new-fangled thing called the Facebook! Now, we
:18:58. > :19:04.are a caring bunch, after all who else would give so many former MPs
:19:04. > :19:09.a break? Yeah, exactly. So we are troubled here that our current
:19:09. > :19:14.bunch are dealing with severe psychological stress. The cause?
:19:14. > :19:22.Having to answer constituents' e- mails, coping with the new expenses
:19:23. > :19:31.system and listening to jokes about themselves. Bet you Dr Fox thinks
:19:31. > :19:41.he's got an easy week this week. We sent Anne McElvoy to the This Week
:19:41. > :19:54.
:19:54. > :19:59.garden. It is time for Westminster Autumn is nearly here. There have
:19:59. > :20:07.been some wild goings on in the Westminster garden. Fortunately,
:20:07. > :20:15.there's always a record of who's been about and what's been going on.
:20:15. > :20:21.Look at that. It is that crafty urban fox. Must be about the 40th
:20:21. > :20:24.time he has been creeping around here. I accept it was a mistake to
:20:24. > :20:29.allow distinctions to be blurred between my professional
:20:29. > :20:33.responsibilities and my personal loyalties to a friend. Friends are
:20:33. > :20:42.a wonderful thing, but Dr Fox does seem to have taken it a bit far
:20:42. > :20:52.with Mr Werritty. He ended up talking his language somewhere
:20:52. > :20:53.
:20:53. > :20:59.between a lawyer and a thesaurus to get him off the hook. One rarely
:20:59. > :21:04.spotted Scottish woodland creature had him in his sights. It is not
:21:04. > :21:08.part of the rules you can ask your friends to fund your advisers and
:21:08. > :21:16.then your advisers can travel the world claiming to represent you.
:21:17. > :21:22.Liam Fox is thought of as a lone wolf in the Tory tribe. There is at
:21:22. > :21:28.least one good reason why they rallied around. Dr Fox has another
:21:28. > :21:32.close friend. She's the former matriarch of the Den, Lady Thatcher.
:21:32. > :21:35.Dr Fox accompanied her in public. He's a Standard Bearer of the right
:21:35. > :21:40.and that's a good reason why David Cameron doesn't want to pull the
:21:40. > :21:50.trigger at the moment. I think the Defence Secretary has done an
:21:50. > :22:00.
:22:00. > :22:05.excellent job clearing up the mess that he was left by Labour. Fox-
:22:05. > :22:15.hunting has overshadowed some of the quieter rural pursuits this
:22:15. > :22:19.week. Everyone forgot about the Labour reshuffle. Now he's got
:22:19. > :22:24.quite a young brood and the female of the species is well represented
:22:24. > :22:29.in the pecking order. With the exception of the greater crested
:22:29. > :22:32.Harriet Harman, there are a lot of fledglings here. Ed must be a bit
:22:33. > :22:36.nervous about well they will do in the Darwinian struggle at
:22:36. > :22:40.Westminster. Are they ready to fly the nest? These are young people,
:22:40. > :22:44.people who have not been in Parliament long. I hold to the view
:22:44. > :22:50.that if you are good enough, you are old enough. Deep in the
:22:50. > :22:55.undergrowth these days are the lesser spotted Lib Dems. Oh look.
:22:55. > :22:59.Even these peaceful places are full of fights and flurries in the
:22:59. > :23:04.hedgerows. Chris Huhne admitted to briefing against the Home Secretary
:23:04. > :23:14.Theresa May. What was her reaction? Well, I haven't - I have left a
:23:14. > :23:21.
:23:21. > :23:25.message for her. I haven't managed to speak to her. I left a message.
:23:25. > :23:33.We've had mild weather, most of the leaves are still on the trees. But
:23:33. > :23:37.maybe the animals should be getting ready for a long hard winter.
:23:37. > :23:40.the day of the worst unemployment figures in 17 years, the Prime
:23:40. > :23:43.Minister is fiegtding to save the job of the Defence Secretary --
:23:43. > :23:47.fighting to save the job of the Defence Secretary. He is doing
:23:47. > :23:52.nothing to save the jobs of hundreds of thousands of people up-
:23:53. > :23:55.and-down this country. Ed Miliband is predicting a bleak midwinter. He
:23:56. > :23:59.is looking more confident as his emphasis on the woes of the economy
:23:59. > :24:03.is going to pay off. Still, David Cameron's got some tiger in his
:24:03. > :24:06.tank, too. You are the party that borrowed too much, that spent too
:24:07. > :24:11.much, that left us with the unregulated banks that has left us
:24:11. > :24:15.with the mess that we have to clear up. When you see those two sitting
:24:15. > :24:19.on the frontbench who worked for so long in the Treasury, you have to
:24:19. > :24:29.ask - you wouldn't bring back Fred Goodwin to sort out the banks, why
:24:29. > :24:36.
:24:36. > :24:40.would you bring them back to sort It's time for a bit of hibernation
:24:40. > :24:50.around here. It's good to know the wild creatures are still up for a
:24:50. > :24:54.
:24:54. > :25:02.fight. Who let him in?! We will see her again in the spring! We are
:25:02. > :25:06.joined by journalist, former Lib Dem adviser, Miranda Green. Let me
:25:06. > :25:13.ask you in the words of a famous song, Dr Fox, should he stay or
:25:13. > :25:20.should he go? Should go. Because? He should go. He said I know it
:25:20. > :25:25.looks bad. If it looks bad, it is bad. If half the things that he's
:25:25. > :25:30.accused of have any substance to them, he's a goner. He met Harvey
:25:31. > :25:38.Bolton, a businessman looking for MoD contracts, just him and this
:25:38. > :25:43.guy. Werritty he met. General John Allen, he met him alone with Adam
:25:43. > :25:48.Werritty. Leaving aside the fact Werritty had an office in the MoD,
:25:48. > :25:54.this is extraordinary. He had an office? I missed that bit. OK.
:25:54. > :25:58.Should he stay or should he go? think it is very bad. He is
:25:58. > :26:05.determined to fight to stay. It seems the massed ranks of the Tory
:26:05. > :26:10.benches are determined to fight to keep him. They are waiting on the
:26:10. > :26:15.Cabinet secretary's report? They are fighting hard. You think he
:26:15. > :26:20.should go? I think he is doomed, yes. Doomed. We are all doomed.
:26:20. > :26:26.are all doomed in the long run. Former Defence Secretary, Michael
:26:26. > :26:30.Portillo, should he stay or should he go? I think it is all about the
:26:30. > :26:36.money. Where has the money come from for Mr Werritty and has he
:26:36. > :26:43.made any money out of his position? The story in the Times this
:26:43. > :26:48.morning... The Friday Times? Does not look good. It appears that his,
:26:48. > :26:54.that Werritty's air fares and hotel bills have been funded by a group,
:26:54. > :26:59.what did you describe them as? are basically people, there's some
:26:59. > :27:06.hedge fund people, lobbyists, property developer, they are people
:27:06. > :27:12.who are very transatlantic, pro- Israel, Thatcherite? I take it this
:27:12. > :27:15.has not been registered anywhere? No. Here is a man travelling
:27:16. > :27:20.alongside the Secretary of State, a lot of money involved, has not been
:27:20. > :27:24.registered anywhere. I would have thought that would prove fatal.
:27:25. > :27:32.Could you imagine as Defence Secretary having someone who would
:27:32. > :27:38.meet you abroad regularly, went to meetings, fixed meetings for you?
:27:38. > :27:42.Is that conceivable as a Minister of the Crown? I think it is
:27:42. > :27:50.inconceivable. More particularly... Unless it was your official
:27:50. > :27:53.adviser? Of course, that is completely different. I always
:27:53. > :27:58.think it inconceivable that you set up this arrangement and not imagine
:27:58. > :28:04.one day it would come out. Do you think - isn't it possible that at
:28:04. > :28:09.some of these meetings, which involved generals and other
:28:09. > :28:13.important people in the British governance, that they thought that
:28:13. > :28:17.this chap, Mr Werritty was more than just a friend, they probably
:28:18. > :28:22.assumed he was some kind of official? Or Special Adviser?
:28:22. > :28:25.you are talking about British generals, that would be
:28:25. > :28:28.inconceivable. Surely anybody in the Ministry of Defence would be
:28:28. > :28:35.very clear about the person's status. I think that is hard to
:28:35. > :28:40.argue. Pretty damaging that he had business cards, saying that he - he
:28:40. > :28:50.didn't say he was adviser to the Secretary of State for Defence, but
:28:50. > :28:57.
:28:57. > :29:03.it said he was adviser to the Also he changed his area of
:29:03. > :29:08.expertise as his chum moved. That is not unusual.
:29:08. > :29:13.He's not a special adviser. didn't he make him a special
:29:13. > :29:15.adviser. For Cameron Her Majesty's Government has a foreign policy
:29:15. > :29:22.articulated by the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, and they
:29:22. > :29:27.have Liam Fox, foreign policy. Parallel operation. Because he
:29:28. > :29:33.thought that Cameron and the Civil Service were too soft. It's quite -
:29:33. > :29:38.these are people, as I understand it, who helped to bank-roll Liam
:29:38. > :29:46.Fox's campaign to be leader of the Conservative Party. He didn't
:29:46. > :29:51.succeed but he didn't have a bad campaign. They like what Dr Fox
:29:51. > :29:57.stands for, as compared to what David Cameron stands for. Dr Fox
:29:57. > :30:04.doesn't trust the Tory establishment or the Ministry of
:30:04. > :30:12.Defence. He has tried to build a small parallel, think-tank adviser
:30:12. > :30:16.operation. Isn't that enough? not transparent at all.
:30:16. > :30:26.To build a think-tank is perfectly all right in ministerial terms. The
:30:26. > :30:28.
:30:28. > :30:35.Prime Minister might not think it an adviser who is funded by that
:30:35. > :30:40.and for it not to be declared, that is very difficult. So you form,
:30:40. > :30:44.there's union nimty here, you don't think he will survive and shouldn't
:30:44. > :30:49.survive? This is the first time I have said this. I have tried to
:30:49. > :30:54.keep off the subject. If it is true he has flown around the world and
:30:54. > :30:58.it has not been declared anywhere that seems unsis tainable. Do you
:30:58. > :31:03.think David Cameron -- unsustainable. Do you think David
:31:03. > :31:07.Cameron has made a mistake by letting it go on for so long.
:31:07. > :31:10.doesn't want to lose his Defence Secretary and in a coalition,
:31:10. > :31:14.reshuffles are difficult. There's no love lost between the two of
:31:14. > :31:19.them. I don't think he wants a reshuffle at the moment. He doesn't
:31:19. > :31:23.want a reshuffle in a coalition. They are more complicated. He
:31:24. > :31:28.doesn't want Liam Fox, with these supporters around him, particularly
:31:28. > :31:32.on the backbenchers doing unimaginable things into the tent.
:31:32. > :31:38.Very diplomatic of you. Just stopped myself in time. We are
:31:38. > :31:43.grateful you did. Ironically I think Liam Fox has
:31:43. > :31:46.cemented his position this week by a lot of tittle-tattle about him.
:31:46. > :31:51.Real gossip which has nothing to do with the case at all. And you have
:31:51. > :31:55.noticed we have not mentioned a word of that. You have now.
:31:55. > :32:00.It has put the Prime Minister into an impossible position because to
:32:00. > :32:04.get rid of Fox, you know, on the back of that gossip, would risk the
:32:04. > :32:08.appearance that he was kind of allowing gossip to ride the man out.
:32:08. > :32:13.What he's got to wait for, apparently is for the facts to come
:32:13. > :32:19.out. What I think is embarrassing now is the Times seems to be going
:32:19. > :32:24.for the facts quicker than civil servants. The unemployment figures
:32:24. > :32:31.out, dreadful. So far the coalition has not been blamed. Are we close
:32:31. > :32:36.to turning upon it. How long that - - can that worse? I think we are in
:32:36. > :32:40.for a bleak winter. I think we're in for several bleak winters. I
:32:40. > :32:46.don't think the coalition has the opportunity of changing its policy
:32:46. > :32:51.because its commitment to reduce the deficit at the rate at which it
:32:51. > :32:56.said it will is to secure the markets F it altered that we'll
:32:56. > :33:00.have all the problems, plus it will cost us much more to borrow. We may
:33:00. > :33:06.not be able to fund that. We will lose our triple-A credit rating and
:33:06. > :33:10.the pound will sink. The worse it gets for the country the better it
:33:10. > :33:15.is for Labour. Politicians are often in this position? Ed Miliband
:33:15. > :33:19.was making the right points. If it had not been the hum bris we have
:33:19. > :33:22.seen last year, unemployment will fall in each of the next three
:33:22. > :33:26.years. The absence of any acceptance there was a global
:33:26. > :33:29.economic problem that started in 208 and now everything is the
:33:29. > :33:34.result of the global problem. They have left themselves pretty
:33:34. > :33:40.vulnerable by the kind of statements "We are out of the
:33:40. > :33:48.danger zone." Actually they didn't have to dig that hole for
:33:48. > :33:55.themselves Maybe put a floor under this. And given a much morale lis
:33:55. > :34:03.tick view to the British -- more realistic view to the British
:34:03. > :34:09.public of how things were. You weren't tempted? No. They
:34:09. > :34:14.didn't approach you because they knew the answer would be, "No?"
:34:14. > :34:23.Absolutely. We are grateful for this. Otherwise we could not have
:34:23. > :34:27.had you. I hope Miss Abbott is watching. Who to you rate? I think
:34:27. > :34:32.Rachel Reeves is an important appointment. I once tried to get
:34:33. > :34:37.her as my paid special adviser. is the one everyone is tipping.
:34:37. > :34:41.Briefly, for you, these atrocious stories about the care of the
:34:41. > :34:45.elderly, these big NHS reforms which have caused the coalition
:34:45. > :34:48.problems, just a yes or no, is there anything in these reforms
:34:48. > :34:55.which will stop these atrocious things from happening? The quality
:34:55. > :34:58.of care is not the same as the structure of this organisation.
:34:58. > :35:05.Andrew Lansley did look to be cheered up to be given bad news
:35:05. > :35:10.about the state of the NHS. Does anybody like Chris Huhne? Well,
:35:10. > :35:16.he's a carnivore in the Lib Dem party which is seen as herb vor. He
:35:16. > :35:21.is an unusual man. That was not a yes or a no? It wasn't, was it?
:35:21. > :35:25.Thank you very much. Beautifully done. There's an old sailing in
:35:25. > :35:29.Westminster, never work with children or animals or Diane Abbott.
:35:29. > :35:33.A lesson we learnt the hard way. One Labour's crack shadow health
:35:33. > :35:38.team, I am sure you can name them all, are now learning to their
:35:38. > :35:42.political cost. But alongside children and animals and Labour's
:35:42. > :35:50.own Florence Nightingale you can add a certain Adam Werritty to the
:35:50. > :35:56.list of emphatic no nos, if only Liam Fox had a trusted confident, a
:35:56. > :36:06.person he could turn to, a best man, say, who could warn him. If only!
:36:06. > :36:21.
:36:21. > :36:31.That is why we decided to put Peter, Peter, are you there? It's
:36:31. > :36:32.
:36:32. > :36:41.Tony. You've got to let me in. Look, please, Peter. It's urgent. Help me.
:36:41. > :36:43.The comic strip team are back, with a film sat tier of new Labour and a
:36:43. > :36:48.scene- stealing performance by plane plane plane as Peter
:36:48. > :36:51.Mandelson. -- Nigel Planer as Peter Mandelson.
:36:51. > :36:56.What makes a political adviser so special? What are the dangers of
:36:56. > :37:00.getting too close? Liam Fox is finding out to his cost. I accept
:37:00. > :37:05.that mistakes were made and I should not have allowed the
:37:05. > :37:11.impression of wrongdoing to arise. And I'm very sorry for that.
:37:11. > :37:15.Meanwhile, the top civil servant, chief councillor to the Prime
:37:15. > :37:21.Minister, Gus O'Donnell announced his retirement this week. He was
:37:21. > :37:25.not nicknamed God just because of his initials. As Margaret Thatcher
:37:25. > :37:34.once said, advisers advise, ministers decide. So, maybe we
:37:34. > :37:44.shouldn't feed our fear of the power behind the throrn. Right you,
:37:44. > :37:44.
:37:44. > :37:50.get your hands up. Who are you? Peter Mandelson.
:37:50. > :37:54.After he was released on jail he joins us now. You had to do a lot
:37:54. > :37:59.of research I assume to get to play this part. In the cause of that did
:37:59. > :38:05.you have views on -- did your views on Mr Mandelson change? They did.
:38:05. > :38:12.My main source of research was the wraths child film, which I watched
:38:12. > :38:16.again and again. She took a camera. Half the time he was not away she
:38:16. > :38:20.was filming. The camera angle is low quite a lot of the time. She
:38:20. > :38:26.took the camera right through the campaign when he was Gordon Brown's
:38:26. > :38:31.campaign manager. It's quite, it's quite revealingment and I did end
:38:31. > :38:37.up rather liking him. I think he came out of it rather well. Do you
:38:37. > :38:47.think, do the media play up this power behind the thrown business?
:38:47. > :38:48.
:38:48. > :38:56.Or was he the power -- throene. was more -- throne. He was more
:38:56. > :39:01.preoccupied with whether the tie was straight. However many times I
:39:01. > :39:07.straighten it, once he gets in front of the camera his tie is
:39:07. > :39:14.crooked. I listened to his memoirs every day as well. He read them on
:39:14. > :39:19.an audio book. His voice picked up that. Special advisers, which
:39:19. > :39:25.didn't really exist in the '50s, until the mid-60s, now more
:39:26. > :39:30.important than ever, aren't they? Yeah, I mean, when I became a
:39:31. > :39:35.special adviser in 1979 we were five in the entire fofplt. I think
:39:35. > :39:38.when I -- in the entire Government. I then when I was Secretary of
:39:38. > :39:43.State, there were 20 in the Government. It has grown vastly
:39:43. > :39:50.since then. When I was a special adviser I was in touch with the
:39:50. > :39:55.adviser to the Prime Minister, who later was the Chief Whip, many
:39:55. > :40:00.years later. I called up to say if he could fix something. He said it
:40:00. > :40:04.is not appropriate for us to have this conversation. Special advisers
:40:04. > :40:11.never spoke to the press. Whereas now that is one of their biggest
:40:11. > :40:15.jobs, dealing the press. Did you feel in Government there was a time
:40:15. > :40:19.when Alistair Campbell and Peter Mandelson were more important than
:40:19. > :40:22.the Cabinet? I would not describe him as a special adviser. Before
:40:22. > :40:27.that. He was head of communications for the Labour Party. No, I think
:40:27. > :40:33.what we did, my experience of them, I took mine to five different
:40:33. > :40:37.Cabinet departments. It was the same and I saw how skillfully they
:40:37. > :40:42.intertwined themselvess with the private office of the Civil Service.
:40:42. > :40:46.A skill to doing that. I saw where others were not as good as doing
:40:46. > :40:49.and therefore created the resentment. They liked good,
:40:49. > :40:54.special advisers who knows the ministers mind and who can ensure
:40:54. > :40:58.in a sensitive way that they do the job they are supposed to do.
:40:58. > :41:02.There is a cross over there between them and the press officer. You
:41:02. > :41:08.were saying, the press officer, I think there's a muddle in the
:41:08. > :41:13.public's mind. Alistair Campbell, he was a press
:41:13. > :41:17.officer wasn't he? A press office. He was more than that too.
:41:17. > :41:21.Exactly. Where to you draw the line between the two? We speak to
:41:21. > :41:27.special advisers all the time to get information about ministers.
:41:27. > :41:33.That used to be not the case. there is a special adviser. I had
:41:33. > :41:37.one who dealt with me and I had one who didn't go anywhere near the
:41:37. > :41:47.media. Are you portraying them as shade you characters in this
:41:47. > :41:47.
:41:47. > :41:53.programme? Everybody in the... It aets definitely more fun having --
:41:53. > :41:59.it's definitely more fun having to play shady characters. What struck
:41:59. > :42:04.me about the Mandelson-Brown relationship, is the concealed
:42:04. > :42:08.hysteria. Peter loves all that. tears and screaming fits.
:42:08. > :42:11.target of the sat tier is all the plethora of memoirs which came out.
:42:12. > :42:18.We quote the page numbers of some of the quotes because they are
:42:18. > :42:24.funny. And, as you saw, it's set in a black and film, 1950s setting.
:42:24. > :42:29.thought it was our colour had gone off. It is black and white, like
:42:29. > :42:33.the 39 Steps, which somehow suits the mellow drama. All the emotions,
:42:33. > :42:40.yes, they are very raised in it. Nigel, here's a suggestion. I
:42:40. > :42:46.suggest you ought to mug up on Andy Coulson now, or Adam Werritty?
:42:46. > :42:52.Prince of Darkness I fancied. It's in the past. Michael Howard. He had
:42:52. > :42:56.something of the night. I think I could do a good Michael Howard. I'm
:42:56. > :43:01.not sure about Werritty. It is early days. There'll be programmes
:43:01. > :43:09.about them one day. You are looking for your Ann Widdecombe, aren't
:43:09. > :43:16.you? It is on tomorrow night. The show is tomorrow night. 9pm on
:43:16. > :43:23.Channel 4. Great. I've set my sky plus for it. That's your lot
:43:23. > :43:28.tonight. We are off on the Holloway Road for one of their puppy donor
:43:28. > :43:34.specials, with Hugh fernly. He said it is OK to eat them, so long as it
:43:34. > :43:44.is after midnight. And they are washed down by Blue Nun special
:43:44. > :43:46.
:43:46. > :43:52.vintage. Known as vina collapso. Michael Portillo, soon to be Lord
:43:52. > :43:59.Portillo, I think, revealed to those that his famous quiff is kept