:00:17. > :00:20.Tonight, Citizen Neil gets into the revolutionary spirit. As protesters
:00:20. > :00:23.are cleared out of Dale Farm and violence returns to the streets of
:00:23. > :00:29.Athens, will the rebellious spirit in the Tory Party cause trouble for
:00:29. > :00:38.the PM in Westminster? The Guardian's Nick Watt joins a
:00:38. > :00:42.peaceful protest on the steps of St Paul's Cathedral. It may be
:00:42. > :00:45.frightfully civilised down here, but back in Westminster Tory MPs
:00:46. > :00:48.are rattling the gates of Downing Street. Citizens protesting about
:00:48. > :00:53.the price of food and fuel as inflation soars and unemployment
:00:53. > :01:03.hits a 17-year high. Channel Four's Fairy Jobmother holds her placard
:01:03. > :01:04.
:01:04. > :01:08.up high. If the Government want to incentivise people to gain
:01:08. > :01:11.employment they need to show us more carrots and less sticks. And
:01:11. > :01:17.crowds of joy, rather than protest, as the Stone Roses re-unite. But
:01:17. > :01:24.can you really recreate the magic in music and in politics? The
:01:24. > :01:27.original Prince Charming, Adam Ant, stands and delivers. If people want
:01:27. > :01:37.to get back together and make some money in the process, that's fine
:01:37. > :01:46.
:01:46. > :01:49.Power to the people! Evening all. Welcome to This Week - a week that
:01:49. > :01:53.began with a Cabinet Minister's blood on the Westminster carpet and
:01:54. > :01:56.ended with a Colonel's blood in a Libyan drainpipe. Yes, after seven
:01:56. > :02:03.long months, the NATO campaign to prevent Muammar Gaddafi attending
:02:03. > :02:06.the 2012 Olympics has finally borne some fruit. The Brother Leader
:02:06. > :02:12.avoided being lynched, but couldn't dodge the bullet that ended 42
:02:12. > :02:15.years of brutal, idiosyncratic rule. Starring in his very own snuff
:02:15. > :02:19.movie appears to be the Colonel's final gift to a grateful Libyan
:02:19. > :02:26.nation, who are now free from the yoke of tyranny, while Seb Coe now
:02:26. > :02:34.has half a dozen tickets going spare for the 100m final. If
:02:34. > :02:37.anyone's interested, just call 0800 TICKET FARCE. He's waiting on the
:02:37. > :02:40.line now. Speaking of those who know a thing or two about
:02:40. > :02:43.personality cult, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by the dear leader and
:02:43. > :02:46.calm down dear of late-night political chat - I speak, of course,
:02:46. > :02:56.of Michael Portillo and, back again despite no public demand whatsoever,
:02:56. > :03:00.
:03:00. > :03:05.Diane Abbott! Welcome it you both. Good to have you back. Michael,
:03:05. > :03:10.moment of the week, obviously the death of Mr Gaddafi. Is it good
:03:10. > :03:15.that he was shot in the end rather than taken alive? Yes. I think it
:03:15. > :03:19.helps the people to move on. It brings back so many recollections.
:03:19. > :03:23.I remember sitting in the House one night in 1986 and we were in the
:03:23. > :03:26.middle of a very important vote and I looked at Margaret Thatcher and I
:03:26. > :03:31.saw the look on her face and I thought what was going on, the
:03:31. > :03:36.planes were flying that night from Britain to bomb Gaddafi in Libya.
:03:36. > :03:40.They were American planes, Reagan was trying to kill Gaddafi off and
:03:40. > :03:45.then I think there was the Lockerbie bombing and the murder of
:03:45. > :03:51.PC Fletcher, and then there was the release of the bomber and Tony
:03:51. > :04:00.Blair embracing Gaddafi and now he's been brought down by NATO led
:04:00. > :04:07.by David Cameron. The British foreign policy. Not for nothing?
:04:07. > :04:12.Better dead than alive? Probably. Just on your point, didn't someone
:04:12. > :04:17.say no eternal allies, only eternal interests? It is probably more
:04:17. > :04:20.practical that he was shot, but there is a lingering wish that he
:04:20. > :04:24.could have stood trial, but you can see the difficulty there. The
:04:25. > :04:29.challenge now is going to be rebuilding Libya as a stable
:04:29. > :04:33.country. Will it encourage David Cameron to be more
:04:33. > :04:38.interventionalist? Mr Blair was successful first time out. He went
:04:38. > :04:42.mad in the end. I think what David Cameron ought to think is that he
:04:42. > :04:45.was jolly lucky in this case, because I don't think he ever
:04:45. > :04:49.really intended this campaign. I think he was calling the bluff of
:04:49. > :04:53.the Americans that they wouldn't go along. He didn't think they would
:04:53. > :04:57.be part of this. He was jolly nearly right because they weren't
:04:57. > :05:00.really. We were stuck with the situation and for a long period it
:05:00. > :05:05.looked like a failure. In the end we snatched some sort of victory
:05:05. > :05:11.from the jaws of defeat, but if I were him I would cash in my chips
:05:11. > :05:16.at this point. I think so. You made the point, when Blair had what
:05:16. > :05:20.seemed like success in Kosovo it went right to his head. The other
:05:20. > :05:24.big development tonight is the eurozone leaders saying they will
:05:24. > :05:27.not come to an agreement this weekend. We'll talk about that
:05:27. > :05:30.later, but that will have dramatic impact on the markets. Now,
:05:30. > :05:35.unemployment's at a record levels. People up and down the country are
:05:35. > :05:38.struggling to get jobs. I can tell you even here in Westminster, we're
:05:38. > :05:46.feeling the effects. Look at poor old Diane, overlooked once
:05:46. > :05:52.again,for a Shadow Cabinet role. Does Mr Miliband not recognise
:05:52. > :05:55.talent when he sees it? Clearly not. I'll have a word with you., Edward.
:05:55. > :05:58.But back to the real world, Call Me Dave and his chums have announced
:05:58. > :06:01.various schemes to get the unemployed into work, so we thought
:06:01. > :06:11.we'd ask our very own Fairy Jobmother, Hayley Taylor, for her
:06:11. > :06:25.
:06:25. > :06:29.take on whether or not he's leading On the faces of the people I work
:06:29. > :06:34.with, all I see is pure fear. Fear of failure, fear of being stuck on
:06:34. > :06:38.a system that they can't get off. Fear, also, of being sanctioned for
:06:38. > :06:42.six weeks if a job possibility doesn't work out. We are seeing
:06:42. > :06:48.high rates of unemployment, rocketing inflation, and people
:06:48. > :06:53.under pressure and people are very scared. It seems strange to me that
:06:53. > :06:58.the Government are praying on the fear and imposing the sanctions. I
:06:58. > :07:02.know it's about carrots and sticks, but where are the carrots? Measures
:07:02. > :07:07.in the welfare to work programme like stopping benefits for those
:07:07. > :07:11.that won't accept a position. Travelling 90 minutes one way to
:07:12. > :07:16.take up an opportunity. They realy don't sit well with me at all. It's
:07:17. > :07:21.obvious to me that the Government have absolutely no idea what it is
:07:21. > :07:25.like to live hand to mouth. Have they ever lived in council houses?
:07:25. > :07:29.Any real comprehension of what the people have to go through on a
:07:29. > :07:34.daily basis? I've met lots of unemployed people and the majority
:07:34. > :07:40.of them do want to work. It's totally unfair that the Government
:07:40. > :07:45.would put the sanctions in place and effect those that for whatever
:07:45. > :07:55.reason cannot move forward now. The Government is wrong to penalise the
:07:55. > :07:55.
:07:55. > :07:59.many in the hope of targeting the few. If you were employment
:07:59. > :08:04.minister for the day what I would do is to invest more in the job
:08:04. > :08:08.centre advisers. They are on strict targets and deadlines and therefore
:08:08. > :08:13.can't match an individual's specific needs. I also would
:08:13. > :08:17.introduce, for the 25% who have no intention of working, the food
:08:17. > :08:24.stamp system. That way there's less disposable income and they may be
:08:24. > :08:28.more likely to go out there and work. I know it's not easy getting
:08:28. > :08:38.back in employment, but what the Government need to do is give us
:08:38. > :08:39.
:08:39. > :08:46.more incentives. More carrots, please, and less sticks. As if by
:08:46. > :08:50.magic, Hayley appears here. You don't need a high-speed train. We
:08:50. > :08:56.are here in the Westminster bubble. Doncaster is about as far away as
:08:56. > :09:01.you can get from that. What is life like to be unemployed there? Life
:09:01. > :09:05.to be unemployed in Doncaster is absolutely horrendous. Wear a black
:09:05. > :09:09.spot -- we are a black spot. Birmingham is the largest block
:09:09. > :09:13.spot, followed by Middlesbrough. Doncaster I don't think is far
:09:13. > :09:17.behind. It's tough? Very. This business of the sticks the
:09:17. > :09:20.Government is using to encourage people to look for work, to get
:09:20. > :09:24.work, just explain why you are worried about that, because I guess
:09:24. > :09:27.the feeling may be that if you are looking - if you are looking for
:09:27. > :09:31.work the sticks don't matter, because you are looking? It's the
:09:31. > :09:35.way the Government is dealing with the situation that we have got.
:09:35. > :09:40.They are really penalising people that do want to work. The sanctions
:09:40. > :09:44.that they are putting in place are creating such fear. People feel
:09:44. > :09:47.they are unable to even try to move forward, because every time they
:09:47. > :09:53.take a step forward they are beaten back down and this is where the
:09:53. > :09:56.stick comes in. What do you mean by that? It's my understanding that if
:09:56. > :10:02.you can't find a job and if the Government isn't offering to help
:10:02. > :10:07.you get a job, you continue with your benefits? Nothing happening to
:10:07. > :10:11.you -- nothing happens to you. Government have come up with a
:10:11. > :10:17.crazy scheme of 90 minutes to travel to find a job. Some of the
:10:17. > :10:23.people I work with have had to sell their cars. 90 minutes from
:10:23. > :10:27.Doncaster to London. �60 is minimum I've ever paid. �145 is the most
:10:27. > :10:32.expensive. That is for a day return. How is that realistic. Nobody could
:10:32. > :10:37.expect people looking for work to have to pay for a train fare to
:10:37. > :10:42.London? This 90-minute rule is something suggested. How can that
:10:42. > :10:46.be at all the right thing to even start to look towards? You are
:10:46. > :10:49.walking on people who are already down. Do you think the Government
:10:49. > :10:54.is out of touch with these kind of practicalities? I think they are
:10:54. > :10:58.totally out of touch and with the people. The Government do not live
:10:58. > :11:02.the lives of these unemployed people that I deal with on a daily
:11:02. > :11:05.basis. Unemployment is absolutely devastating. It is demoralising and
:11:05. > :11:10.depressing. People cannot face getting out of bed. There is
:11:10. > :11:17.nothing to look forward to and there is no assistance whatsoever
:11:17. > :11:21.of any practical side. Can a Cabinet of millionaires understand
:11:21. > :11:24.the difficulties in Doncaster? Probably not. I think a big
:11:24. > :11:28.criticism of this Cabinet is that it doesn't have the direct line to
:11:28. > :11:33.the working man and woman that I think Margaret Thatcher had. She
:11:33. > :11:38.had the automatic connection, probably because she was a grocer's
:11:38. > :11:43.daughter. I think there are big issues about incentives. For
:11:43. > :11:49.example, there is the most tremendous accumulation of
:11:49. > :11:53.households in council housing without work. Whereas, in private
:11:53. > :11:56.renting housing and in owner occupation you have much higher
:11:56. > :12:00.levels of contact with the labour market. You have to ask this. One
:12:00. > :12:05.of the reasons is for instance we give housing to people who are the
:12:05. > :12:09.most in deed, so people have an incentive to maximise their
:12:10. > :12:13.neediness. They are no incentive to try to improve themselves and get
:12:13. > :12:17.into work. A councillor was saying we are going to prioritise our
:12:17. > :12:22.housing by giving it to people who are in work. Why would they do
:12:22. > :12:27.that? Because they then begin to create some incentives. Not only do
:12:27. > :12:31.I get a job, but I get the opportunity to get a house. Whereas,
:12:31. > :12:34.at the moment is the houses are going to people who don't have
:12:34. > :12:38.houses and people have no incentive to raise themselves from that
:12:38. > :12:42.position. What is your response to that? My response would be I think
:12:42. > :12:47.the reason why the people in council houses are mainly
:12:47. > :12:54.unemployed is because they very much become their environment.
:12:54. > :13:01.There may be a concentration of unemployed, but I'm not sure the
:13:01. > :13:04.majority are? I disagree. In London they are. One of the problems is
:13:04. > :13:08.housing benefit. One of the things that traps people in council
:13:08. > :13:14.accommodation is if they go and get a job they lose a lot of other
:13:14. > :13:17.benefits like housing benefit, so you have to steak now where
:13:17. > :13:22.children don't see people going out to work. They just don't see it.
:13:22. > :13:28.What is the point? My point is I agree with you. I think the
:13:28. > :13:32.Government's got it wrong. Even though to an extent my Government
:13:32. > :13:39.were starting to buy into that narrative. You laid the ground work
:13:39. > :13:44.for it as Mr Purnell will be happy to tell you. A great man. The next
:13:44. > :13:48.leader of the Labour Party! I wanted to talk about the 25% you
:13:48. > :13:53.said don't want to work. I think attitudes to work have changed. My
:13:54. > :13:59.father got up, went to work, five days a week. It's absolutely in my
:13:59. > :14:02.brother's and mine DNA that's what men do. They go out to work. I
:14:02. > :14:06.represent people who are on estates where nobody works and there are
:14:06. > :14:11.all sorts of reasons, but they don't see it. You talked about the
:14:11. > :14:14.25% and I think there are an issue and you talked about food stamps.
:14:14. > :14:17.The attitudes to work have changed. One of the things you find with
:14:17. > :14:20.young people and when I counsel them about work, some say I
:14:21. > :14:28.couldn't do that, because I wouldn't enjoy it. I think to
:14:28. > :14:35.myself, who says you have to enjoy your job. If it is so debilitating
:14:35. > :14:40.why is it that almost two million immigrants are found -- have found
:14:40. > :14:43.jobs in this country and - This is one of the things that has
:14:43. > :14:47.emboldened the Government. British Chamber of Commerce found
:14:47. > :14:50.out that attitude to work and ability to get up and go to work in
:14:50. > :14:56.the morning and to apply yourself to be reliable, these immigrants
:14:56. > :15:00.had it and a lot of British-born folk didn't. The immigrants, do
:15:00. > :15:04.they have the same opportunities in their country? Why do they take
:15:04. > :15:09.them here? Because there are opportunities here. Why don't our
:15:09. > :15:14.own people take them? They are prepared to work for the minimum
:15:14. > :15:18.wage. Why shouldn't our people do that? The 25% are professionally
:15:18. > :15:22.unemployed. It's their job. They are professional at it. Don't they
:15:22. > :15:27.need some sticks, because they are living at our expense? For that 25%,
:15:27. > :15:32.yes, of course, but what I'm saying is you cannot give to the 25% that
:15:32. > :15:36.really -- 75% that really want to work, you can't tar them with the
:15:36. > :15:40.same brush. They are the ones who should be pressed. The other 95%
:15:40. > :15:45.should be treated in a different way? Of course. Do you think you
:15:45. > :15:55.can look at someone and you know whether they are in the 25 or 75?
:15:55. > :16:00.
:16:00. > :16:03.One of the problems is that you are applying your judgment and
:16:03. > :16:08.discretion and the law does not allow you to do that. What the law
:16:08. > :16:10.says is that if somebody presents in your office and they have gone
:16:10. > :16:14.through the business of saying they are looking for work in the
:16:14. > :16:19.previous week, you have to pay them a benefit. You're not allowed to
:16:19. > :16:22.use your judgment, discretion and experience. If we introduced a
:16:22. > :16:28.system where you could, I would be on your side and that would be a
:16:28. > :16:32.step forward. We had better leave it there on that agreement. That is
:16:32. > :16:35.a first. Thank you for being with us. Now, calm yourselves because
:16:36. > :16:38.there's only one thing more exciting than a missing G-spot and
:16:38. > :16:42.a strip search at the World Scrabble Championships, and he's
:16:42. > :16:45.waiting in the wings as we speak, the dandy highwayman himself, the
:16:45. > :16:51.king of the wild frontier, Adam Ant, who'll be talking about the wisdom
:16:51. > :16:55.of the reunion. And if your font is stuck on your favourite large green
:16:55. > :16:59.typeface and you're down to your last barrel of Blue Nun, stick your
:16:59. > :17:05.head in it, then head on over to our interweb site, or follow us on
:17:05. > :17:09.Twitter. Or sign up to The Facebook and tell us why we deserve a pay
:17:09. > :17:15.rise. Now, Michael and I went camping at
:17:15. > :17:18.the weekend. Doesn't happen very often. But our friends Tamara and
:17:18. > :17:21.Arabella were both going, and besides the brochure promised 50 or
:17:21. > :17:26.so delightful self-catering plots with stunning views of the Basildon
:17:26. > :17:31.countryside. The next thing you know Tamara's got herself arrested,
:17:31. > :17:36.Arabella's chained by the neck to a portaloo and Michael's been tasered.
:17:36. > :17:39.He's still coming round. Next year, I think we should pitch our tent
:17:39. > :17:49.somewhere quieter, like the Guardian's Nick Watt did at St
:17:49. > :17:59.
:17:59. > :18:04.Paul's. It is only me. Don't tell my mum
:18:04. > :18:08.I'm here. Look, somebody's got to take a stand, there have been
:18:09. > :18:15.shocking price rises recently. I blame those filthy capitalists. One
:18:15. > :18:25.can hardly afford to eat these days. Yummy! That is something I picked
:18:25. > :18:40.
:18:40. > :18:43.It helps to fund this modern -- modest lifestyle if you can pocket
:18:43. > :18:49.�17,000 as a golden goodbye when you lose your job. And some people
:18:49. > :18:53.are still not happy. Last week's media frenzy was not unprecedented
:18:53. > :18:57.and it happens when a necessary free press and politics collide.
:18:57. > :19:02.But I believe there was from some quarters a personal vindictiveness,
:19:02. > :19:06.even hatred, that should worry all of us. Liam Fox apologised for
:19:06. > :19:10.blurring the lines between his private and official roles in those
:19:10. > :19:14.five-star hotels, but the crack in his voice shows that he believes he
:19:14. > :19:18.has been unfairly treated. He believes it is still ride for
:19:18. > :19:23.ministers to have outside advice. I think the best way to understand Dr
:19:23. > :19:26.Fox is to think of him as an American politician, constantly
:19:26. > :19:31.challenging the system, who just happens to have been born in
:19:31. > :19:34.Scotland. There may be no love lost between David Cameron and Dr Fox,
:19:34. > :19:39.but the Prime Minister was irritated when Ed Miliband -- Ed
:19:39. > :19:42.Miliband challenged him over his handling of the affair.
:19:42. > :19:45.Secretary of State for Defence recognised he had made a mistake,
:19:45. > :19:52.acknowledged that he broke the ministerial code and he resigned.
:19:52. > :19:56.That is not something that always happened in the last 13 years.
:19:56. > :20:05.Speaker, a piece of advice to the Prime Minister, this week, of all
:20:05. > :20:10.weeks, show a bit of humility. I wonder what else mummy has packed
:20:10. > :20:15.for me. A bit of caviar, gentleman's relish, and a guide to
:20:15. > :20:20.push bingo. Of course, a Cabinet would never -- never be selected
:20:20. > :20:25.that way. And who is the winner of this week's Cabinet reshuffle? The
:20:25. > :20:29.millionaire from Surrey. It is a moment of sadness as well. Liam Fox
:20:29. > :20:34.did a great job at Defence, making a great starting clearing up the
:20:34. > :20:37.mess that Labour left behind. I will do everything in my power to
:20:37. > :20:45.justify the trust the Prime Minister has placed in me by
:20:45. > :20:50.offering me this job. Thank you. The old guard are not happy. John
:20:50. > :20:54.Redwood has joined forces with a sizable group of Euro-sceptics, to
:20:54. > :20:58.sign a Commons motion calling for a referendum on Britain's membership
:20:58. > :21:01.of the European Union. David Cameron is so nervous about a
:21:01. > :21:07.rebellion that he has brought the debate forward by three days to
:21:07. > :21:11.ensure he is around next Monday. do not support holding a referendum
:21:11. > :21:21.come what may. That is not our policy and I will not be supporting
:21:21. > :21:23.
:21:23. > :21:29.that motion. I am sure my special adviser, otherwise known as my
:21:29. > :21:33.ballet, is here somewhere. Anyway, the Prime Minister will be adding
:21:33. > :21:37.to Brussels on Sunday for what has been dubbed a bazooka summit.
:21:37. > :21:41.European leaders are hoping to reach agreement on a new bail-out
:21:41. > :21:46.of up to two trillion euros to prevent the defaults in Greece.
:21:46. > :21:50.They are absolutely terrifying that could have a domino effect in other
:21:50. > :21:56.weaker economies like Spain and Portugal. Well, the protests in
:21:56. > :21:59.Greece make this look a bit like Glyndebourne. But make no mistake,
:21:59. > :22:05.the storm clouds are gathering as we in Britain head back to the
:22:05. > :22:08.dreaded stagflation of the 1970s. We have had 18 months of his
:22:08. > :22:12.economic experiment and what has he got to show for it? More and more
:22:12. > :22:16.people losing their jobs, more and more businesses going bust and
:22:16. > :22:22.inflation going through the roof. And all we have got is a Prime
:22:22. > :22:26.Minister who is hopelessly out of touch. His plan is to add �23
:22:26. > :22:30.billion to Britain's deficit this year at almost �100 billion to our
:22:30. > :22:37.deficit by the end of the parliament. There is not one single
:22:37. > :22:45.country in Europe that would have such a crazy blam. Such a crazy
:22:45. > :22:51.plan that you deal... Us anti- capitalist protesters would do away
:22:51. > :22:56.with the pair of them. Mum was my friend, Mervyn, he is a bit gloomy
:22:56. > :23:01.at the moment. In the absence of rebalancing globally, and
:23:01. > :23:06.especially in the euro area, we could be facing a recovery that is
:23:06. > :23:16.not nearly reluctant but recalcitrant. Oh, dear! I could be
:23:16. > :23:29.
:23:29. > :23:36.here for some time. I need these by He is still outside St Paul's. Go
:23:36. > :23:41.and visit him, ensure he will give you a drink of champagne. Michael,
:23:41. > :23:46.let's start with the Westminster end of Europe. Her or damaging is
:23:46. > :23:51.it for David Cameron that so many Conservative MPs are pushing hard
:23:51. > :23:55.for a referendum. -- how damaging. It is a big nuisance, and
:23:55. > :23:59.embarrassment, a distraction, it takes the public mind back to the
:23:59. > :24:03.Conservative Party of old, the Conservative Party when I was in
:24:03. > :24:07.Government when we were split from top to bottom on Europe. He feels
:24:07. > :24:11.he needs to focus on his approach to the euro issues, and he does not
:24:11. > :24:15.want to be distracted by this talk of having a referendum, which he
:24:15. > :24:19.regards as unrealistic and irrelevant. I think he must be
:24:19. > :24:22.somewhat surprised at the number of new members of parliament who are
:24:22. > :24:27.in this group, and even some of them who have been closely
:24:27. > :24:31.associated with him. There are former special advisers him there,
:24:31. > :24:38.people who actually know what real politics is about and yet they are
:24:38. > :24:42.signed up to it, too. The 2010 Tory intake, the new intake, is more
:24:42. > :24:46.Euro-sceptic than your lot were. It is one of their defining features.
:24:46. > :24:51.You could see the faces when this came up in Prime Minister's
:24:51. > :24:54.Questions, the faces of his backbenchers. They are up for it.
:24:54. > :24:59.Why would David Cameron pick a fight on this, because the motion
:24:59. > :25:06.is not going to get through? Why go for a three-line whip and with
:25:06. > :25:10.everybody into line on this? He may have to step back from that, but...
:25:10. > :25:17.I suppose because otherwise people will say his authority is worth
:25:17. > :25:23.nothing. But one of the options in a referendum is to repatriate
:25:23. > :25:27.powers back to London. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't that in
:25:27. > :25:31.the Tory manifesto? Why we do not vote for that? I suppose that is
:25:31. > :25:34.one of the reasons all of this is happening, that there is a lot of
:25:34. > :25:38.disappointment that David Cameron, when he was trying to be elected
:25:38. > :25:41.leader of the Conservative Party, made quite a lot of statements
:25:42. > :25:45.about his Euro-scepticism. He thought he was fighting tooth and
:25:46. > :25:49.nail with David Davies, who had a more Euro-sceptic position. This
:25:49. > :25:54.was a misconception, because David Davis had been a whip on the
:25:54. > :25:56.Maastricht bill and had no friends on the Euro-sceptic right after all.
:25:56. > :25:59.But David Cameron played along and said a lot of Euro-sceptic things
:25:59. > :26:03.and people are angry has pulled back a long way from that, because
:26:03. > :26:09.when you are Prime Minister you drop -- do not want to be in that
:26:09. > :26:14.position. Why has Labour got a three-line whip against this?
:26:14. > :26:17.backbenchers are so probably disaffected that they have seen --
:26:17. > :26:24.because they have seen jobs could the Lib Dems, so they are poised to
:26:24. > :26:28.kick up over this. My personal view, I voted against the economic and
:26:28. > :26:34.monetary union section of Maastricht. For reasons that we
:26:34. > :26:38.have all seen. I am a loyal frontbencher. What happened to the
:26:38. > :26:42.Diane Abbott that we know. You just do as you're told. I think
:26:42. > :26:45.personally we could take them down on this because they are so split.
:26:45. > :26:49.All that we would have to do is give people a free vote and let
:26:49. > :26:53.them do what they want. But we are not going to do that. If you had
:26:53. > :26:58.given your side a free vote, quite a lot of Labour people would have
:26:58. > :27:02.voted for the referendum. Indeed, and then Cameron would have been
:27:02. > :27:06.frightened. However, the people who advise my leader are more
:27:06. > :27:12.scrupulous than myself. I want to, and to the wider position in a
:27:12. > :27:17.minute, but if you are a Euro- sceptic, bliss it is to the Euro-
:27:17. > :27:22.sceptic at the moment. It has all gone pear-shaped. It is exactly as
:27:22. > :27:28.proper side. My point is that this is now going to become a defining
:27:28. > :27:31.issue of the Cameron years. Yes, because the Euro-sceptics think the
:27:31. > :27:33.collapse of the euro is an opportunity to reassess our entire
:27:33. > :27:38.relationship, including the possibility of leaving the European
:27:38. > :27:41.Union. While the Government is urging the eurozone to engage in
:27:41. > :27:44.closer political Corporation and Union, there may well be a treaty
:27:44. > :27:50.amendment and then there would have to be a referendum in this country,
:27:50. > :27:55.in my view. -- closer political co- operation. There is not going to be
:27:55. > :27:59.a referendum in this Parliament, is there? No, but we could have fun
:27:59. > :28:03.voting with the Tory right on it. This talk of throwing money at the
:28:03. > :28:07.eurozone to stop Greece defaulting, everybody knows that Greece will
:28:07. > :28:11.have to default in some form or another. It is money down the drain.
:28:11. > :28:17.So there will not be a referendum. There will not be a repatriation of
:28:17. > :28:22.powers either, probably, in this Parliament. No, there will not.
:28:22. > :28:25.Tory backbench will be furious. there is a treaty amendment, which
:28:26. > :28:28.is a high probability, and no referendum, that means trouble for
:28:28. > :28:34.David Cameron because he has always said any treaty amendment would go
:28:34. > :28:39.to a referendum. Sticking with domestic, Liam Fox's resignation
:28:39. > :28:43.statement, what did you make of it? First of all, his resignation was
:28:43. > :28:47.completely necessary and warranted. He breached the ministerial code,
:28:47. > :28:51.clearly. In his resignation speech - it may well be that his family
:28:51. > :28:55.and his friends and everybody has known has been hounded by the press,
:28:55. > :29:00.and if that is the case, I do not see why he should not cry foul and
:29:00. > :29:04.mention that in his statement. I think that is probably what he was
:29:04. > :29:08.alluding to. I was in the house and I thought he sounded like he was
:29:08. > :29:13.whingeing. I am sure his family and friends got a hard time, but that
:29:13. > :29:17.happens in politics. He does not really seem to understand he has
:29:18. > :29:22.done anything wrong. I am not sure he does think he has done anything
:29:22. > :29:25.wrong. That is what came over when he made his speech. That is the
:29:26. > :29:30.problem. He may think he did something wrong at the margin but
:29:30. > :29:35.he does not feel he has done anything corrupt. That is
:29:35. > :29:39.problematic. From my point of view, I cannot understand what could
:29:40. > :29:45.possibly have merited this degree of, let me call it exotic financial
:29:45. > :29:50.arrangements. The thing is, man, woman or a hamster, he had an
:29:50. > :29:57.inappropriate relationship with that young man. Was there a
:29:57. > :30:02.hamster? I thought I had read everything. The lawyers on this
:30:02. > :30:05.programme have been relaxed while you were not here. They are already
:30:05. > :30:10.speaking in my ear. Am I right in thinking they can be no comeback
:30:10. > :30:15.this side of the election, this Parliament? Yes, when money is
:30:15. > :30:20.involved, it is difficult to make a comeback. Does it do damage to Mr
:30:20. > :30:23.Cameron, or to the Tory modernising project? I do not think people
:30:23. > :30:28.really understand what he did, but they feel that here is another MP,
:30:28. > :30:33.a minister that has been up to no good. Yes, that is undoubtedly the
:30:33. > :30:36.case but I think David Cameron had a lot of luck on this. Thank
:30:36. > :30:40.goodness Liam Fox resigned on Friday. If David Cameron had waited
:30:40. > :30:45.until Tuesday to get the report, that would have been desperate.
:30:46. > :30:48.he jump, or was he pushed? I think he had difficulty answering some of
:30:48. > :30:54.the question from Gus O'Donnell, the Cabinet Secretary, so he
:30:54. > :30:59.thought he had better go before the report comes out. Now, the
:30:59. > :31:03.countdown to the amazing two weeks we face in the eurozone crisis. The
:31:03. > :31:07.European summit this weekend, Angela Merkel and President Sarkozy,
:31:07. > :31:12.things are so bad that President Sarkozy flew to Germany while his
:31:12. > :31:15.wife as giving birth. We are now told, just before we came on air,
:31:16. > :31:20.that there will not be an agreement this weekend. They will try to get
:31:20. > :31:24.one next week, and we have this cut-off point that Mr Obama and Mr
:31:24. > :31:34.Cameron and Mr Osborne have made. It has to be done and dusted by the
:31:34. > :31:36.
:31:36. > :31:39.The sort of agreement that people have now decided is necessary is a
:31:39. > :31:43.two trillion euro agreement. There is absolutely no way that the
:31:43. > :31:48.Germans will accept that. It's all very well Sarkozy going around and
:31:49. > :31:53.saying we want leadership in Europe. What he meends is he wants German -
:31:53. > :31:59.- means is he wants German money. It's not available. Stepping back,
:31:59. > :32:02.what we have here is a whole lot of different-shaped economies at
:32:02. > :32:06.different stages of development, rammed together in a currency which
:32:06. > :32:12.is unsuitable for most and none of the problems will go away. That is
:32:12. > :32:17.why you were against it I remember meeting the then President of
:32:17. > :32:22.Bundesbank and we said what would be the ideal monetary unit, France
:32:22. > :32:26.and Germany and the Benelux countries. Let's say you were both
:32:26. > :32:31.right and not walk down on memory lane, but get to now. I put it to
:32:31. > :32:36.you, Diane, that if there is - there has to be an agreement on
:32:36. > :32:40.Greece defaulting and there has to be the bail out fund of two
:32:40. > :32:44.trailion and recapitalisation of the banks and if there is not an
:32:45. > :32:49.agreement to present to the G20 there will be a market meltdown. We
:32:49. > :32:54.are heading for a major financial crash in the next three weeks.
:32:54. > :32:58.will be very problematic. I'm not quite as convinced on that. I think
:32:58. > :33:03.the focus is on the recapitalisation on the banks and
:33:03. > :33:09.the number is around 350 billion euros. A lot of money, but not the
:33:09. > :33:13.two trillion. I think the default - The French and Germans are divided
:33:13. > :33:21.on that. The French want the Europeans to bail out the banks.
:33:21. > :33:25.It's more achievable. I think a 60% haircut of the bond holders losing
:33:25. > :33:34.their money is pretty written into market expectations now. Watch this
:33:34. > :33:42.space. It's going to be an interest -- interesting couple of weeks. Now
:33:42. > :33:47.when Diane told us she was quitting our band for the dizzy heights of
:33:47. > :33:52.Labour's crack health team, we feared the worst imagine John and
:33:52. > :33:58.Paul without Linda, or Mick and Keith without Bianca. You get some
:33:58. > :34:02.idea the scale of our loss, but you know what they say, if the cheque
:34:02. > :34:07.has enough zeros there will be a car for 10.30 on Thursday night,
:34:07. > :34:15.tell it to pick me up outside the Ritz. With Diane back and the stone
:34:15. > :34:22.roasts back, we decided to put reunions in this week's spotlight.
:34:22. > :34:28.-- Stone Roses back, we decided to put reunions in this week's
:34:28. > :34:32.spotlight. News the world has been waiting for, the Stone Roasts are
:34:32. > :34:40.reuniting, because they want to be adored. I want to shake up the
:34:40. > :34:46.world and we are going to play two big gigs at heat on park. -- Heton
:34:46. > :34:53.Park and then take it around the world. There will be a bumper bonus
:34:53. > :34:57.for the Manchester scallies as Steps are proving with their album.
:34:57. > :35:00.As boy band Westlife finally do us all a favour and call it a day, it
:35:00. > :35:07.can't be long before they are tempted back by the prospect of one
:35:07. > :35:17.final pay day. Is it really wise to get the old gang back together? Is
:35:17. > :35:24.it the money or just the bore dem that makes people -- bordem that
:35:24. > :35:29.tempts people to make the effort? AdamAnt is with us. Welcome. The
:35:29. > :35:35.reruinions in the rock world, am I too cynical to say it's about the
:35:35. > :35:39.money? I think that is certainly true, but they have to bring home
:35:39. > :35:43.the bacon and they have families and once you are in the charts and
:35:43. > :35:47.naive and you sign the contracts and when it is all over and you
:35:47. > :35:51.have paid everyone off you realise you actually don't have that much
:35:51. > :35:54.money in the bank, so I see no reason why they shouldn't get bag
:35:54. > :35:58.together and go back to the audience that is still with them if
:35:58. > :36:01.they make good records. You may know how to do it better to your
:36:01. > :36:07.advantage second time around, because you have learnt a few
:36:07. > :36:10.tricks? Well, yeah. Sometimes it takes 20 years. You do. You are
:36:10. > :36:15.dealing with a situation where you are signing contracts as thick as a
:36:15. > :36:19.phone book and there's one line saying, "If you don't show this to
:36:19. > :36:24.a lawyer within seven days it's illegal." And you don't, because
:36:24. > :36:28.your drummer wants a drum kit and that is ten albums, in my case, so
:36:28. > :36:34.your whole life is under control, so you are dealing with something
:36:34. > :36:41.that tanned amount to a very old Hollywood system. Some reunions and
:36:41. > :36:46.comebacks seem to be bigger than the original. Take That seem to be
:36:46. > :36:51.bigger? Yeah, I think - I saw the show at Wembley and it was amazing.
:36:51. > :36:57.It was like an Olympic event. They really pulled it off, but I think
:36:57. > :37:01.people foreget that bands like the Stone Roses and my band, you start
:37:02. > :37:05.off as four or five guys that are mates, carrying equipment around
:37:05. > :37:09.and travelling up and down the country and you become good mates
:37:10. > :37:18.and then suddenly you are worth a lot of money to a lot of people.
:37:18. > :37:21.You are a big earner and then the work is too hard and you don't hear
:37:21. > :37:26.the word no, no don't do that, because that tour, the management
:37:26. > :37:29.basically are not going to say no to that amount of money. Then with
:37:29. > :37:33.that exhaustion, cracks begin to appear and other influences come
:37:33. > :37:38.into the group and you start being not so friendly. That can be the
:37:38. > :37:43.start of it. Tkph you have come back, but not as -- You've come
:37:43. > :37:49.back, but not as Adam and theants. That's my baby and I have the
:37:50. > :37:54.rights to that and it may happen in the future. I decided to go solo
:37:54. > :37:59.after the friendship wasn't there. We were all exhausted. I decided
:37:59. > :38:07.that I didn't want to continue. I wanted to go solo, but it's a hard
:38:07. > :38:14.thing. I do enjoy it, but there is a difference between doing a solo
:38:14. > :38:20.album and doing Adam and the Ants. Political reunions or comebacks,
:38:20. > :38:28.they are more rare in politics than the music business, aren't they?
:38:28. > :38:35.Yes. I mean I suppose Gordon Brown brought back Alastair Campbell and
:38:35. > :38:41.Peter Mandelson. That's true. Mandelson had a couple of them.
:38:41. > :38:46.or three. Too many for my opinion. One was one too many. It's not
:38:46. > :38:50.quite the same as a reunion. I've noticed that this evening I spent
:38:50. > :38:55.the evening with my university weekends and the weekend with my
:38:55. > :39:00.school friends and I made a speech about you, and I never had a
:39:00. > :39:04.reunion with my political friends. With the old Cabinet colleagues?
:39:04. > :39:09.Some of them I feel quite warmly about and when I see them, it's
:39:09. > :39:14.great, but nobody suggest let's go eat for a evening. Is that because
:39:14. > :39:21.there was a lot of bad blood between you? Probably. You had -
:39:21. > :39:25.It's like a band the way it fell apart. You had a comeback, you lost
:39:25. > :39:30.your seat and then got back in for Kensington and Chelsea. Does that
:39:30. > :39:34.count? Did you go back and join with old friends the way a band
:39:34. > :39:38.would? There was a tiny reunion. I was a big ally of Francis Maude. He
:39:38. > :39:43.had lost his seat in the election before I did, so he had been out
:39:43. > :39:50.since 1992. I was out in 1997 so in 2000 we were working together for
:39:50. > :39:57.the first time in eight years. is your comeback in public health.
:39:57. > :40:06.It's impressive. I had a mini reunion tonight, because I went to
:40:06. > :40:10.speak at Camberwell and peck hall - - Peckham. I went there and I first
:40:10. > :40:17.worked with Harriet Harman and a whole host of others at the Old
:40:17. > :40:22.National Council for Civil Liberties. When you do one in the
:40:22. > :40:26.music business, you are under some kind of pressure from the fans to
:40:26. > :40:32.recycle all the old songs, are you not? They don't want to hear the
:40:32. > :40:35.new ones so much? I've been on tour over the summer and during the
:40:35. > :40:40.winter, but I put on the show I would like to see from a band I
:40:40. > :40:44.grew up with. If I went to see Roxy Music or David Bowie or anybody I
:40:44. > :40:49.would want to hear the hits. I think it's unfair not to give them
:40:49. > :40:52.that, but among that, you drop in one or two new things, but if I
:40:52. > :40:56.wasn't proud of the songs I wrote I wouldn't put them out in the first
:40:56. > :41:05.place, so I see no reason. I love them. I'm just trying to get them
:41:05. > :41:15.right. It's a challenge. Each militates against reruinions in
:41:15. > :41:15.
:41:15. > :41:21.British poll tiblgz. You can have rock -- politics. You have rock
:41:21. > :41:27.stars where they fill stadia now. It's not true in America or France
:41:27. > :41:34.or Germany. Lord howl was in the Government today and he was in
:41:34. > :41:38.Edward Heath's Government. David Young and Michael Heseltine, both
:41:38. > :41:42.have little positions with the Government and they are people who
:41:42. > :41:48.again are right back. You mean there is a chance for you to come
:41:48. > :41:53.back? I'm a bit too young. Since you are naming all of the names on
:41:53. > :42:03.the periphery of the Government, I think we'll have a quiz. Stick with
:42:03. > :42:04.
:42:04. > :42:07.us, because they're useless. Now, you know these are strange times
:42:07. > :42:10.when the French head of state actually fathers a legitimate child.
:42:10. > :42:13.And, tonight President Sarkozy and his wife, Carla, have revealed the
:42:13. > :42:16.name of their new baby daughter - Giulia. Let's hope she grows up to
:42:16. > :42:20.be like her brand new name, because according to Deed Poll, there's
:42:20. > :42:23.been a huge surge in the number of people changing their birth name.
:42:23. > :42:26.So, as we're joined tonight by a certain Mr Adam Ant, nee Stuart
:42:26. > :42:36.Goddard, what better time could there be for a Political Name
:42:36. > :42:41.
:42:41. > :42:51.Change Quiz? What is the Chancellor's real full name? Gideon
:42:51. > :43:01.Osborne. No. You are right on both, but there is another name. Oliver.
:43:01. > :43:04.
:43:04. > :43:10.What is the London mayor Boris Johnson's real name? Colin.!
:43:10. > :43:20.Alexander What is former Tory A list candidate Nancy Mogg's real
:43:20. > :43:25.
:43:25. > :43:29.name? Rees-Mogg. Well done. Adam, thank you for joining us. I told
:43:29. > :43:32.you they were useless. That's your lot for tonight folks. We're all
:43:32. > :43:34.off to Berkeley Square, because it's Zumba night at Annabel's! And,
:43:34. > :43:37.in her exalted role as Grand Poobah of the Headline-dodging Shadow
:43:37. > :43:40.Public Health Team, Diane's promised to show Michael the latest
:43:40. > :43:43.way of keeping himself fit on the dance floor. Squats and lunges are
:43:43. > :43:46.merely optional. In the meantime, and with Adam here in the studio,