:00:23. > :00:28.Tonight, This Week remembers Sir Jimmy Saville and asks for his help.
:00:28. > :00:33.Dear Jim, please, please, please, help us fix Greece and the eurozone
:00:33. > :00:38.crisis. Journalists and commentator Mary-
:00:38. > :00:43.Ann see Sieghart gets her wish to take part in a Greek tragedy.
:00:43. > :00:48.eurozone is facing its worst crisis in its history. At least since last
:00:48. > :00:53.week. Now then, now then guys and gals,
:00:53. > :01:02.this is from Lambeth Palace: Please ask God to make the protesters go
:01:02. > :01:06.away. From Rome, 6 1 and a half. Diane Louise Jordan thinks she can
:01:06. > :01:10.help. Whilst the church can't wish the protesters away, it needs to
:01:10. > :01:16.reach out and stand up for what it really believes in. Goodness
:01:16. > :01:20.gracious, as it happens, what made Jimmy Saville make people's dreams
:01:20. > :01:27.come true and what made three Pakistani cricketers throw their
:01:27. > :01:32.dreams away. We look at motivation, the Strictly phenomenon Nancy
:01:32. > :01:40.Dell'Olio. I'm really looking forward to coming on to This Week,
:01:40. > :01:46.especially to dance my tango with Andrew. How's about that then?!
:01:46. > :01:50.Evening, all. Welcome to This Week, the show which knows as much about
:01:50. > :01:55.Party Politics as Pippa Middleton does about party planning, which
:01:55. > :01:59.fortunately for us sets the bar comfortably low. Unlike her, we
:01:59. > :02:04.don't have to write a book about it. Even we couldn't miss the launch of
:02:04. > :02:09.the coalition's eye-catching, much- anticipated growth strategy, or to
:02:09. > :02:13.give it its official title, the high-viz jacket strategy. There
:02:13. > :02:17.comes a time in every faultering Government with the economy tanking
:02:18. > :02:22.and the price of fizzy German wine rocketing when Cabinet members are
:02:22. > :02:25.suddenly spotted in a procession of day glow work wear outfits and
:02:25. > :02:30.goofy safety glasses designed to give the impression that they
:02:30. > :02:34.really do know what they're doing. First up This Week was Boy George
:02:34. > :02:37.in the luminous pink health and safety anorak. Who gave a less than
:02:37. > :02:44.convincing emprition that he understood what that nice working
:02:44. > :02:51.class chap from Network Rail told him about this latest engineering
:02:51. > :02:55.thingy. Then Nick Clegg popped up at Sheffield Forge Masters
:02:55. > :03:01.Steelworks looking like Eddie the Eagle to announce a �36 million
:03:01. > :03:04.loan to the company just 16 months after the coalition cancelled an
:03:04. > :03:11.�80 million loan to the very same company.
:03:11. > :03:14.But, 16 months ago, Mr Clegg's constituents quite liked him. Yes,
:03:14. > :03:20.nothing makes a politician happier than using our money to buy them
:03:20. > :03:23.votes. Speaking of bare faced cheek, I'm joined by two of Westminster's
:03:23. > :03:27.most shameless self-publicists. Think of them as the Katie Price
:03:27. > :03:30.and Peter Andre of late-night political chat and you can decide
:03:30. > :03:36.which is which. I speak of course of Michael Portillo and Alastair
:03:36. > :03:40.Campbell. Good Evening, gentlemen. Hello, an true. Michael, your
:03:41. > :03:45.moment? I'm very interested in the way national sovereignty is being
:03:45. > :03:47.eroded. There was the spectacle of Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy
:03:47. > :03:51.berating the Greek Prime Minister for having the cheek to consider
:03:51. > :03:55.that he should ask his people what they thought of the deal. But also,
:03:55. > :03:59.I'm very interested, it's clear that Merkel and Sarkozy have been
:03:59. > :04:02.making telephone calls to other politicians in Greece. I was very
:04:02. > :04:06.struck that at dawn this morning, suddenly the Greek Finance Minister
:04:06. > :04:09.comes out and announces that he's against the referendum which made
:04:09. > :04:13.the referendum collapse. It just makes you wonder whether these
:04:13. > :04:16.people inside Greece now, their strings with being pulled by the
:04:16. > :04:21.elite in Brussels or, as they are this week, in Cannes.
:04:21. > :04:26.By the Presidents and the Chancellor? You may say that.
:04:26. > :04:29.Suppose it's better than invading telephone calls. Alastair, your
:04:29. > :04:35.moment? It was going to be about the Greek crisis until I went to
:04:35. > :04:39.the green room and Nancy jumped all over me. So that's now my moment of
:04:39. > :04:43.the week. Glad you've got over it It was lovely but my moment of the
:04:43. > :04:47.week was actually watching the arrivals at the G20 today and
:04:47. > :04:54.hearing them being described as the 20 most powerful leaders in the
:04:54. > :04:57.world at a time when they looked and seemed to feel absolutely
:04:57. > :05:00.powerless. The sight of Barack Obama and the Chinese Prime
:05:00. > :05:04.Minister and all these guys actually really, really caring
:05:04. > :05:09.about what was happening within the Greek political system and you just
:05:09. > :05:12.had a sense of this crisis kind of lurching out of control and no
:05:12. > :05:16.sense of where the control is going to come from. They've essentially
:05:16. > :05:19.wasted their carbon footprint. We'll talk more about that. Because
:05:19. > :05:24.regular viewers know that here on This Week, we've been very
:05:24. > :05:29.concerned about the welfare of Tristram and Arabella and all their
:05:29. > :05:32.chums hanging out at St Paul's. Oh yar. We are thrilled the
:05:32. > :05:39.authorities said they can keep their tents up until the New Year.
:05:39. > :05:49.All very cosy there now the old druid of Canterbury reaches them
:05:49. > :05:59.every night. We've asked Songs of Praise host Diane Louise Jordan to
:05:59. > :06:18.
:06:18. > :06:21.head down to St Paul's and give us Well, it's not been a great week
:06:21. > :06:26.for the Church of England. The protesters camped here at St Paul's
:06:26. > :06:31.have grabbed the headlines and the agenda. But the question is, have
:06:31. > :06:35.they thrown, not just this cathedral, but the entire Anglican
:06:35. > :06:40.Church into chaos? As a Christian, I'm deeply
:06:40. > :06:44.disappointed that the cathedral initially behaved like a self-
:06:44. > :06:48.interested dinosaur whose first reaction was to bolt its doors and
:06:48. > :06:52.consult its lawyers. From a PR perspective, it's not
:06:52. > :06:55.been great. It would seem that the cathedral's been much more
:06:55. > :07:05.concerned about how much it's losing in the gift shop than at the
:07:05. > :07:09.
:07:09. > :07:15.very least engaging with the world The ka had to ral could have
:07:15. > :07:18.avoided all this criticism heaped on it instead if it flung open its
:07:18. > :07:22.doors and connected with the protestors and listened to their
:07:22. > :07:27.concerns whrrbgs that be about unfairness, bankers' bonuses or
:07:27. > :07:31.city greed. Personally, I have a hunch that Jesus would have been
:07:31. > :07:37.found right here in this camp and not behind the locked doors of the
:07:37. > :07:41.cathedral. I'm relieved that the church has finally this week become
:07:41. > :07:45.involved in the discussion. But I question the wisdom of advising on
:07:45. > :07:50.specific policy like the Robin Hood tax, rather than engaging in the
:07:50. > :07:55.wider debate on how we love our neighbour.
:07:55. > :08:00.The church has an opportunity of a generation. The world financial
:08:00. > :08:06.crisis has shown that capitalism has inherit flaws. Without doubt,
:08:06. > :08:10.there's a huge gap between the rich and the poor. So, rather than naval
:08:10. > :08:15.gazing, the church should come out beyond the church buildings, beyond
:08:15. > :08:20.its congregation and concern itself with the issues that affect us all,
:08:20. > :08:24.issues like poverty, unemployment, insecurity and fear.
:08:24. > :08:28.So, has what's happened over the last couple of weeks dented the
:08:28. > :08:32.church's credibility to such a degree that there's no way back?
:08:32. > :08:38.From now on, will the church be seen as a greedy old relic from the
:08:38. > :08:42.past? No. I actually believe that this is a beautiful opportunity for
:08:42. > :08:52.the church to truly represent everything Jesus championed, to be
:08:52. > :08:59.
:08:59. > :09:02.right at the centre of a radical, Diane Louise Jordan joins us at our
:09:02. > :09:06.campsite in London. Very posh campsite. Because we are very posh,
:09:06. > :09:13.as you can tell. You can actually spend the night here. Still trying
:09:14. > :09:18.to work out which is Katie and Peter. We'll get our own back,
:09:18. > :09:23.don't worry. If, as you said in your film, you
:09:23. > :09:31.really think Jesus would be inside the tent, how did the church manage
:09:31. > :09:35.to get it so wrong? I don't know. I think sometimes when you're having
:09:35. > :09:38.a building with all the sort of responsibilities and all that sort
:09:38. > :09:43.of stuff, I think you can sort of get so involved with how that runs
:09:43. > :09:47.that you sort of just miss your footing on what's actually
:09:47. > :09:51.happening right under your nose. I don't really think the guys at the
:09:51. > :09:55.cathedral had any sort of sinister agenda or anything like that.
:09:55. > :09:58.just seemed out of your depth? I just think they literally weren't
:09:58. > :10:03.looking where they were supposed to be. My sadness is that they didn't
:10:03. > :10:06.sort of, you know, focus on what was really happening sooner.
:10:06. > :10:09.issues that have caused this campsite and others in other cities
:10:09. > :10:13.around the world to spring up, although the campsite's not been
:10:13. > :10:19.there for very long, the issues causing it have been around for a
:10:19. > :10:24.while. Exactly. Particularly after the financial crash of 2008. So why
:10:24. > :10:27.did it take two weeks for the bant to say anything? -- Archbishop of
:10:27. > :10:31.Canterbury? I think a lot of Christians are sitting there
:10:31. > :10:36.feeling the same why. You know, this is an area really where the
:10:36. > :10:40.church should be leading the way really. This is the mandate to help
:10:40. > :10:46.the broken hearted and the disenfranchised and the widow and
:10:46. > :10:51.all that sort of stuff. So I think that the guys at the cathedral
:10:51. > :10:55.really just didn't respond. refer to Rowan Williams, he did an
:10:55. > :10:58.article in the FT yesterday about the Tobin tax, he's been saying
:10:58. > :11:02.that for some time. I think the reason why this story's taken off
:11:02. > :11:07.in the way that it had is because it's one of those situations where
:11:07. > :11:11.a big organisation didn't kind of know what its instincts were.
:11:11. > :11:16.That's why it was brilliant, that banner,, what would Jesus do, in
:11:16. > :11:19.the film. They didn't know what their instincts were to be to
:11:19. > :11:23.project the Majesty of the great building and it's linked with the
:11:23. > :11:27.City, which I'm not criticising them for this, but they get a lot
:11:27. > :11:32.of money to keep the whole thing going, or were they instincts to go
:11:32. > :11:36.out to people who were saying the sort of things... There was another
:11:36. > :11:41.institution though found to be out of its depth in the immediate
:11:41. > :11:47.aftermath of Princess Diana's death and that was Buckingham Palace and
:11:47. > :11:51.the Royal Family. You were involved, Alastair, in trying to get that
:11:51. > :11:56.institution on the right track post-the car crash. What would you
:11:56. > :12:01.have advised the church if they asked you? To have gone straight
:12:01. > :12:03.out and engaged with them and appealed to them to actually help
:12:03. > :12:10.them organise the protest in a way that could have kept the church
:12:10. > :12:14.open. It was shutting the church I think that sort of... That drew
:12:14. > :12:20.everybody's attention. The other concern is that you have compared
:12:20. > :12:24.the church to another institution and my frustration, and I wonder if
:12:25. > :12:28.that's the same with a lot of other Christians is, why is the church an
:12:28. > :12:34.institution, that's not what it's supposed to be. It's because it's
:12:34. > :12:37.not an institution that it's found it difficult to handle this. As a
:12:37. > :12:41.Christian, your response should be, you should be free enough so that
:12:41. > :12:46.your response can be there's an issue, there are people that have a
:12:46. > :12:48.need. You can't all have the same response. Within St Paul's itself
:12:48. > :12:52.and then the Archbishop of Canterbury, they didn't have the
:12:52. > :12:57.same response because they didn't know what their instincts with.
:12:57. > :13:04.Let me bring Michael in. He's being uncharacteristically patient.
:13:04. > :13:09.of all, I see this a as supreme example of the horrible health and
:13:09. > :13:12.safety culture. It's not been wound back. It's a brave person who, when
:13:12. > :13:17.advised by a lawyer says there's a health and safety issue, says I'm
:13:17. > :13:21.going to take my chances. If you do that and something happens, you are
:13:21. > :13:25.in trouble. The other thung is, it's all very well to say the
:13:25. > :13:28.church has some sympathy with what the protesters are saying, I can
:13:28. > :13:32.understand them too. But what is the connection between having a
:13:32. > :13:37.problem with big bank bonuses or whatever and putting your tents all
:13:37. > :13:41.over a public facility? I mean, where is the right of the public to
:13:41. > :13:45.enjoy the amenity space? Why is it that any minority, however small,
:13:45. > :13:50.can put up its tents anywhere it wishes in Britain and spoil the
:13:50. > :13:54.amenity? Diane? I don't know about these guys putting up tents there,
:13:54. > :13:58.but I think the underlying thing is, one of the beautiful things about
:13:58. > :14:03.this country is that we have the freedom to express our concerns
:14:03. > :14:06.about whatever it is. We have the freedom to protest. ALL SPEAK AT
:14:06. > :14:10.ONCE You don't need the freedom to put
:14:10. > :14:15.up tents. Perhaps. It's a form of protest. I don't particularly want
:14:15. > :14:21.to hear the views of organisation or groups that I disagree with like
:14:22. > :14:30.the BNP or whatever, but they have the freedom to protest in the way
:14:30. > :14:35.Because they have moved to St Paul's, the issue has become about
:14:35. > :14:38.the Church. The other issues have gone on to the back-burner.
:14:38. > :14:42.thing that I am more interested in - we can go down the road about
:14:42. > :14:46.whether they should be camping or not, and there were some
:14:46. > :14:49.disgruntled people today who did not want them there - but the point
:14:49. > :14:57.I am concerned about, from the Christian point of view, is how do
:14:57. > :15:00.we, as Christians, respond to this global discontent. It is not just
:15:00. > :15:04.the guys outside St Paul's Cathedral. Around the world there
:15:04. > :15:09.is a growing feeling, and people are not necessarily articulating it
:15:09. > :15:14.in a coherent way, but they feel disenfranchised. How is the Church
:15:14. > :15:17.going to respond to that? I think that is a good. But I do not think
:15:17. > :15:23.the Church is obliged, nor the British public, to indulge this
:15:23. > :15:28.invasion of the public space and this ruining of a public amenity.
:15:28. > :15:33.You famously said that politicians do not do God. Should priests not
:15:33. > :15:36.do politics? Because of what you have just said, I think it is very
:15:36. > :15:41.hard for them to stay out of politics, because you are talking
:15:41. > :15:44.about deeply political issues. The that is why I think one of the bad
:15:44. > :15:47.consequences of what has happened is that the issues the protesters
:15:47. > :15:51.were trying to raise have not had the ventilation through what has
:15:51. > :15:56.been going on with the church that they hoped. Whereas in the States
:15:56. > :16:00.where they are "occupying Wall Street" the focus has been on the
:16:00. > :16:03.bankers. Within this whole debate this week, apart from Bob Diamond
:16:03. > :16:08.making an order speech tonight, we have heard nothing from the bankers.
:16:08. > :16:13.We have heard about Rowan Williams, the Bishop of London, etc, so some
:16:13. > :16:18.of the issues that you are hoping to highlight actually in a strange
:16:18. > :16:21.way been allowed to escape. They are issues of principle, and from a
:16:21. > :16:25.Christian perspective there are strong Christian issues as well,
:16:25. > :16:29.but does that really mean the Church of England should have as
:16:29. > :16:35.its official policy support for a Tobin Tax? Is that really what the
:16:35. > :16:40.Church should be arguing for? said in my piece, I am not sure it
:16:40. > :16:44.is the Church's position to start advising on these specific policies.
:16:44. > :16:51.I think we are going down a dangerous path if we do that. I do
:16:51. > :16:54.not know. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't. People
:16:54. > :16:58.say church figures have to give leadership, but when they make a
:16:58. > :17:06.specific proposal, commentary on a proposal, they are criticised for
:17:06. > :17:13.entering politics. It is not their job to produce the policies. They
:17:13. > :17:17.can have a view on something that is around. I thought Rowan
:17:17. > :17:26.Williams... I do not want to comment on what Rowan Williams said.
:17:26. > :17:30.I think perhaps you are right. But the frustration for me years, -- it
:17:30. > :17:34.is that there was this argument, not to do specifically with the
:17:34. > :17:40.church, but we, as a body of Christians, have not dealt with
:17:40. > :17:43.this in the way that is representative, I think, of how
:17:43. > :17:50.Jesus leads. I think for us there is a great opportunity where we
:17:50. > :17:55.could actually come out and behave in a way that follows those
:17:55. > :17:59.principles, and we are not doing that. One result of this is more
:17:59. > :18:03.less the canonisation of these protesters. It irritates me to hear
:18:03. > :18:07.the BBC interviewing them, calling them by their first names, because
:18:07. > :18:12.they have somehow been elevated to this sacred status because now the
:18:12. > :18:18.church is reaching out to them. is interesting that has happened.
:18:18. > :18:22.thank you for being with us. Like a prostrate eurozone lead on the
:18:22. > :18:26.phone to China's Sovereign Wealth Funds - it is happening - we are
:18:26. > :18:33.not too proud to beg. So please don't go anywhere, because
:18:33. > :18:37.otherwise you will miss Nancy Dell'Olio trying to figure out what
:18:37. > :18:41.her motivation is. If that is not enough reason to stay tuned, think
:18:41. > :18:47.of the joy and the pain, especially the pain, that you can have on our
:18:47. > :18:53.Internet site. Or you can follow last on Twitter and poke fun at us
:18:53. > :18:56.on the face book. Economic crises are not a disaster for everyone.
:18:56. > :18:59.Greek bonds are worthless but ancient Greek mythology has never
:18:59. > :19:04.been more popular, certainly with political journalists searching for
:19:04. > :19:08.a metaphor. We have dusted down our copies of the Iliad and paraded are
:19:08. > :19:12.long forgotten knowledge of the Trojan War, in a vain attempt to
:19:12. > :19:17.shed light on the tragedy that is modern-day Greece. Who better to
:19:17. > :19:27.turn to them the woman with the Midas touch, the Independent's Mary
:19:27. > :19:40.
:19:41. > :19:45.Ann Sieghart, with a Greek chorus, It is a tragedy of plate throwing,
:19:45. > :19:49.kebab showering proportions. It makes Sophocles and Euripides look
:19:49. > :19:53.like drama queens. The ancient Greeks believed that if you tried
:19:53. > :19:57.to imitate the goods you would be struck down. Angela Merkel and
:19:57. > :20:01.Nicolas Sarkozy, who had been displaying the hubris of here and
:20:01. > :20:06.there Zeus, found themselves tumbling down the slopes of Mount
:20:06. > :20:09.Olympus this week. On Tuesday, Greece dared to challenge the Euro
:20:09. > :20:13.gods when the Prime Minister, George Papandreou, announced he was
:20:13. > :20:17.going to hold a referendum on the bail out plan. He did not even
:20:17. > :20:22.warned his own Finance Minister, let alone Angela Merkel and Sarkozy.
:20:23. > :20:27.Who would have thought it, from the people who invented democracy? The
:20:27. > :20:37.markets tumbled before you could say taramasalata. We invented
:20:37. > :20:37.
:20:37. > :20:41.catastrophe,... Now George Papandreou faces resignation, there
:20:41. > :20:45.may be a government of national unity and there is unlikely to be a
:20:45. > :20:49.referendum. Even so, beware of Greeks bearing euros, because there
:20:49. > :20:53.is a fair chance they will turn back into the worthless drachma. As
:20:53. > :20:59.the G20 leaders arrived in France, Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy
:20:59. > :21:05.summoned George Papandreou for an emergency summit in Cannes. Yes, he
:21:05. > :21:09.can. No, he can't. They had to ask him what he thought he was doing,
:21:09. > :21:19.and to tell him he was not going to get his big fat Greek bail out
:21:19. > :21:20.
:21:20. > :21:22.unless he ignored his voters. TRANSLATION: We wish to continue
:21:22. > :21:25.building Europe and the euro without Greek friends. We have done
:21:25. > :21:29.everything we could to achieve that but there are certain number of
:21:29. > :21:32.rules that are the bedrock of the solidarity pact and it is up to the
:21:32. > :21:38.Greeks now to decide whether they wish to continue on this road
:21:38. > :21:42.together with us, or not. Meanwhile, we in Britain are either left
:21:42. > :21:46.waiting uselessly while the drama unfolds, or thrilled that we are
:21:46. > :21:51.outside the eurozone. Depending on whether you are Nick Clegg or David
:21:51. > :21:55.Cameron. George Osborne can lecture all he likes, but he does sound
:21:55. > :21:59.like one of those men jabbering to himself on the bus. No one in the
:21:59. > :22:02.eurozone is listening. It is up to the Greek people and the Greek
:22:02. > :22:05.political system to decide how they make their decisions but it is
:22:05. > :22:09.important for the eurozone to implement the package they agreed
:22:09. > :22:12.last week. That is what I said was crucial at the time and it is what
:22:12. > :22:17.they said was crucial at the time. We need to get on with it sooner
:22:17. > :22:20.rather than later. The eurozone crisis is handy for the Tories
:22:20. > :22:27.because they can blame our lack of growth on the Greeks who have been
:22:27. > :22:34.living beyond their means. What's a Grecian urn? More than his
:22:34. > :22:37.government can afford to pay him! There is a global storm in the
:22:37. > :22:40.economy today and it is in our interest to help others come from
:22:40. > :22:44.that global storm but we also have to keep the British economy safe.
:22:44. > :22:49.We will not do that if we add to our deficit and debt and put
:22:49. > :22:52.interest rates at risk. First he blamed the Labour Government, then
:22:52. > :22:56.Europe, yesterday he was blaming his Cabinet colleagues for the lack
:22:56. > :23:02.of growth in our economy. The truth about this Prime Minister is that
:23:02. > :23:07.when things go wrong, it is never anything to do with him. Funny, we
:23:07. > :23:11.remember Gordon Brown doing the same when his financial crisis hit.
:23:11. > :23:17.The Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, his Labour's Cassandre. He thinks
:23:17. > :23:21.he has perfected his own flat lining gesture. For David Cameron,
:23:21. > :23:25.who cannot bear Ed Balls, he had another go at him yesterday.
:23:25. > :23:31.can go on making questionable salutes, but it is time to take a
:23:31. > :23:36.Primark. In Greece, the cartoonists are mocking Angela Merkel as a not
:23:36. > :23:39.see. Lot of the inventors of the euro had in mind. But in Greece,
:23:39. > :23:46.public servants can still retire in their fifties whereas in Britain
:23:46. > :23:54.they will have to work until they are 65. Will I still work hard when
:23:54. > :23:56.I am 64? The unions are going to go on strike but they will not get
:23:56. > :24:03.sympathy from those in the private sector who have always retired
:24:03. > :24:06.later and usually on less money. is not fair! In the City,
:24:06. > :24:09.protesters have been saying the same thing but after three
:24:10. > :24:14.resignations from St Paul's, the cathedral has repented over
:24:14. > :24:18.evicting them. Meanwhile, the Oracle of Swansea, a high priest of
:24:18. > :24:23.in decision finally came out to say that maybe capitalism was not such
:24:23. > :24:27.a great thing after all. But he certainly took his time. Judging
:24:27. > :24:31.the right time to say something is always difficult and I may or may
:24:31. > :24:37.not have got it right but this is what I would like to say now.
:24:38. > :24:41.a bit hit-and-miss, Archbishop. Take a tip from Zeus, a good bolt
:24:41. > :24:51.of thunder and a whole lot of rain is the best way to get yourself
:24:51. > :24:53.
:24:53. > :24:58.heard. Thunderbolt and lightning, very, very frightening.
:24:58. > :25:06.Joining our own little Greek chorus in the studio, Louise Cooper of
:25:06. > :25:11.PGCE. Welcome to This Week. Michael, chaos and confusion in Athens has
:25:11. > :25:14.had a huge ripple effect at the G20 in Cannes. Whatever happens in
:25:15. > :25:18.Greece, chaos and confusion will remain for the foreseeable future.
:25:18. > :25:23.Yes, but we're getting somewhere, getting to the point of considering
:25:23. > :25:27.which country will leave the euro. I regard that as a step forward
:25:27. > :25:31.because this will not be fixed by one trillion euros. It will not be
:25:31. > :25:35.fixed by fiscal union. There were not the political union. The
:25:35. > :25:40.Germans were not agree to transfer indefinite amounts of money for all
:25:40. > :25:44.time. The only way it can be solved is by fewer countries in the euro.
:25:44. > :25:50.At last we are taking tentative steps towards that. So it does not
:25:50. > :25:54.stop with Greece? I imagine it would not stop with Greece. We all
:25:54. > :25:57.know that quite a large number of countries in the euro are not
:25:57. > :26:01.really capable of being in the euro. But the idea that countries should
:26:01. > :26:05.leave the euro has been regarded as unthinkable. Luckily it is now
:26:05. > :26:08.being thought about. I think British Government policy is in a
:26:09. > :26:12.very funny place, because British Government policy is that the euro
:26:12. > :26:16.should succeed. It cannot succeed because it has the wrong members.
:26:17. > :26:21.British policy is that there should be fiscal union. The last thing in
:26:21. > :26:26.the British national interest is a fiscal union dominated by Germany.
:26:26. > :26:31.At the moment we are speaking out of the back of our heads. Louise,
:26:31. > :26:34.how would the markets react and what do the markets think about
:26:34. > :26:39.Greece leaving the eurozone? In a sense they are unhappy with the way
:26:39. > :26:44.things are at the moment, but the possibility of contagion if Greece
:26:44. > :26:48.leaves fairly terrifies them. Angela Merkel and Sarkozy should
:26:48. > :26:52.have done his deal with the Greece problem 18 months ago, thrown a lot
:26:52. > :26:56.of money at it, if they want to keep the euro, and contained it.
:26:56. > :26:59.That clearly has not happened. Even now they are trying to do it on the
:27:00. > :27:04.cheap. The bail out package last week, it is not a package because
:27:04. > :27:10.we have not got detail, and it is done consistently on the cheap. Not
:27:10. > :27:14.enough money is put on the table. What we have is contagion. We have
:27:14. > :27:19.Italian government finding it difficult to fund their large
:27:19. > :27:24.deficit. We have Italian bond yields at 6.3%, four of a creeping
:27:24. > :27:30.up, despite the fact that the ECB is buying an awful lot of Italian
:27:30. > :27:34.debt. This is the big fear. It is not Greece, but a Missy default of
:27:34. > :27:39.Greece could do the lot of damage to the European economy and the
:27:39. > :27:46.European banking industry. -- messy. The scary thing is contagion to
:27:46. > :27:50.other places. I suspect if you were talking to George Papandreou, you
:27:50. > :27:55.would be telling him the game is up. The only thing to say about that is
:27:55. > :27:59.that he is a survivor. He probably has had it, to be frank. Conversely,
:27:59. > :28:03.the gambit he made on the referendum, and Angela Merkel and
:28:03. > :28:06.Sarkozy forcing him, basically telling him that if they didn't get
:28:06. > :28:10.it through, they were out of the euro, that has put the point that
:28:10. > :28:14.Michael has made on the table. Until then, they would not say it
:28:14. > :28:18.in those terms, but it is now out there. I think that could become a
:28:18. > :28:21.problem. It may be that they will not have the referendum, they get a
:28:21. > :28:24.government of national unity and get the bail out package through
:28:25. > :28:29.but I suspect it will not be enough and we will be back here again. I
:28:29. > :28:33.was at some of the summits when the whole euro thing came into being.
:28:33. > :28:37.Michael is right, it has been a political project all the way
:28:37. > :28:40.through. There are countries in the euro, and the Germans know this, he
:28:40. > :28:45.should never have been in the euro. They probably thought at the time,
:28:46. > :28:49.some of them, this will end where we are now. Whether that means one
:28:49. > :28:53.country will go out and then you have contagion and you go to a
:28:53. > :29:00.smaller eurozone, do not know, but if that happens, it is not as
:29:00. > :29:04.straightforward and painless as Can we park this idea of a
:29:04. > :29:08.Government of national unity in Greece? I know that's the way
:29:08. > :29:11.they're going to do it, that's the plan overnight, Mr Papandreou will
:29:11. > :29:14.probably step down and they'll try to get another Government in. There
:29:14. > :29:18.was talk about bringing back a former governor of the Bank of
:29:18. > :29:23.Greece. Greek politics are more polarised than American politics
:29:23. > :29:28.today. But he does seem to have moved the opposition on to his
:29:28. > :29:35.territory. Not later tonight? it's changed. That's the problem.
:29:35. > :29:38.Harold Wilson said a week was a long time, a an hour is in Greek
:29:38. > :29:41.politics. The Greek economy is going to implode sooner or later
:29:42. > :29:46.because there's no possibility that the Greek economy can recover under
:29:46. > :29:49.the package that's been served up to it. The Greeks know that. That's
:29:49. > :29:54.why you mentioned a referendum, that's why they're talking about
:29:54. > :29:57.having a general election because they know they cannot do this, they
:29:57. > :30:00.cannot possibly come round. Everyone pretends this has been
:30:01. > :30:04.arrange ford the good of the Greeks, but it's to try and save the euro
:30:04. > :30:07.and it won't succeed in saving Greece or the euro. Can the Greeks
:30:07. > :30:12.have a real default, not the organised voluntary hair cut
:30:12. > :30:18.they're supposed to be forced to be having? Can they have a proper
:30:18. > :30:21.default? The New York Times had figures this week, it said it would
:30:21. > :30:27.run a budget surplus next year because all the money's going on
:30:27. > :30:31.interest, so could they do a real default and stay in the euro? Or
:30:31. > :30:36.does a real default automatically mean you have got to leave? I think
:30:36. > :30:39.it means you have to leave. You know, the problem with Greece is
:30:39. > :30:43.all the solutions they're currently putting on the stable don't deal
:30:43. > :30:47.with the underlying problem which is that they have too much debt.
:30:47. > :30:51.They need to sell stuff, they need to sell something, whatever it is
:30:51. > :30:55.that they can on with selling, they should do it and make reforms to
:30:55. > :30:59.the economy. But that's not what is happening, the privatisation
:30:59. > :31:02.programme is not happening and the reforms are not happening. All the
:31:02. > :31:06.extra stuff Kerr concentrating on doesn't deal with the structural
:31:06. > :31:11.problems with the Greek economy which is imploding. The Greek
:31:11. > :31:15.economy's contracted 11% in two years. 15% in three years. Apart
:31:15. > :31:19.from selling islands, they could sell exports and tourism if they
:31:19. > :31:26.weren't stuck inside the euro. on holiday there.
:31:26. > :31:33.Will Greece stay in or not? Alastair? If I was putting my life
:31:33. > :31:38.on it, I would say they won't. are not asking for your life?
:31:38. > :31:44.had to put a euro on it, I would put it on Greece not being in the
:31:44. > :31:52.euro. OK. Absolutely. My money's in the same place. I'm with the boys.
:31:52. > :31:56.Three that go?! You mentioned earlier that you've done a number
:31:56. > :32:03.of G20s. What must the Obamas and the Chinese President and the
:32:03. > :32:07.Indian Prime Minister, what must they think? There was no point in
:32:07. > :32:12.being in Cannes today? There is a point. I agree with Michael. You
:32:12. > :32:15.sense that things are moving. The point of them being there is to
:32:15. > :32:20.apply, and there will be a lot of pressure being applied and Obama is
:32:20. > :32:23.doing a bit publicly, but the other message coming out of Cannes is the
:32:23. > :32:28.shifting of power from west to east. That is the other big thing
:32:28. > :32:33.happening in the economy. You don't need a G20 summit to know that.
:32:33. > :32:38.what these guys are meant to do at the big events is to shape a future.
:32:38. > :32:41.That may be that out of a crisis b sometimes you can do that. The
:32:42. > :32:47.other amazing thing is that at the last euro crisis summit where this
:32:47. > :32:50.bail out deal was agreed, nobody thought, it seems to many, to
:32:50. > :32:54.grille down on Papandreou as to how he was going to do this so that
:32:54. > :32:59.when he announced the referendum, that's what sparked the present
:32:59. > :33:05.crisis, nobody had a clue it was coming. That is because despite all
:33:05. > :33:09.the talk of European unity, there's the most fantastic different of
:33:09. > :33:13.political cultures among Europe and no apparent empathy or sympathy for
:33:13. > :33:18.the conditions that exist in different countries. For example,
:33:18. > :33:24.one culture is the German culture that you mustn't interfere with the
:33:24. > :33:30.ECB or have a currency that is deboar ched and you mustn't have
:33:30. > :33:36.bail outs. When they served up this package to Greece, they obviously
:33:36. > :33:39.didn't give a fig as to how it would be done. No. Such a desire to
:33:39. > :33:45.get something that sort of says we've solved this problem, move on
:33:45. > :33:50.to the next thing that I think too often they turned a blind eye to
:33:50. > :33:53.the detail. The top man of the ECB years ago was a political fix,
:33:53. > :34:00.Chirac was saying he couldn't do it for eight years and the next guy
:34:00. > :34:04.had to be French. This was meant to be an independent institution.
:34:04. > :34:08.Brussels summit didn't come up with anything, it came up with 106
:34:08. > :34:11.billion for capitalisation of banks, at some stage finding money from
:34:12. > :34:19.somewhere, clearly not enough money, it needs to be double, triple gosh
:34:19. > :34:24.knows what. It came up with a lever aaged ESF, how would that be done,
:34:24. > :34:33.does it need to be financial engineering and we had the hair cut
:34:33. > :34:37.that lots of banks don't want to participate in. It was a deal that
:34:37. > :34:43.was rubbish. Sorry, it was rubbish. What shall we be looking out for in
:34:43. > :34:48.the weeks ahead? Let's assume this thing continues to rumble on and is
:34:48. > :34:52.not solved this side of Christmas? I think a lot of it is not solvable,
:34:52. > :34:55.to be honest. I'm quite surprised how patient financial markets are
:34:55. > :34:59.willing to be. We've talked many times about credit markets, the
:34:59. > :35:03.fact that the banking industry can probably survive to tend of the
:35:03. > :35:10.year, but then come next year it has to start funding itself,
:35:11. > :35:15.massive funding. Banks are hugely leveraged. We've seen the boss on
:35:15. > :35:19.the BNP today saying I will be deleveraging my balance sheet and
:35:19. > :35:23.taking assets off. Which means they won't have a base to lend? Joy they
:35:23. > :35:26.won't be lending and the fear of a credit crunch come the beginning of
:35:26. > :35:28.2012 will have devastating effects on the ordinary people and the
:35:28. > :35:32.economic forecasts which are already coming down, is what we
:35:33. > :35:36.need to worry about, the credit crunch that will happen in 2012 if
:35:36. > :35:40.European politicians don't get organised. I hear the sound of
:35:40. > :35:44.razor blades being pulled out in the drawing rooms of Britain.
:35:44. > :35:50.Louise Cooper, thank you very much. We perked up this week with some
:35:50. > :35:55.good news for the economy - not the 0.5% growth figuresry put some led
:35:55. > :36:02.in Boy George's pencil - talk about poverty of low expectations. No, no,
:36:03. > :36:06.the news of the average 49% pay increases for the UK's business. It
:36:06. > :36:12.means they must obviously, in a marked economy, there must have
:36:12. > :36:16.been a 49% increase in share prices and in turnover employment profits.
:36:16. > :36:21.Obviously. That's what follows isn't it? Who knew the economy was
:36:21. > :36:26.doing so nicely hey fellas. One business person was asked if he'd
:36:26. > :36:31.do his job for half of his multi- million pay packet. His answer left
:36:31. > :36:41.us none the wiser which gave us every reason to put motivation in
:36:41. > :36:51.
:36:51. > :36:55.What could possibly motivate an Italian property lawyer with an
:36:55. > :37:00.undoubted love to have limelight to enter a ballroom dancing
:37:00. > :37:07.competition on live national TV? What will you miss most about
:37:07. > :37:12.Strictly? Let me think about it. I will miss many moments, of course.
:37:12. > :37:16.Or make three Pakistani cricketers throw away their talent and their
:37:16. > :37:20.reputations. And their freedom. After being found guilty of match
:37:20. > :37:24.fixing and bribe taking. The wages of top business leaders
:37:24. > :37:28.appearing to defy gravity in the face of our economic woes, is there
:37:28. > :37:33.only money that motivates the masters of the universe?
:37:33. > :37:38.Perhaps we could all take a moment to remember the life and work of a
:37:38. > :37:42.TV legend whose marathon charity work puts us all to shame. A couple
:37:42. > :37:46.of weeks to spend doing nothing so I thought I would spend 'em running
:37:46. > :37:51.and getting some fresh air between Land's End and London. For ever
:37:51. > :37:59.asked the question, now then, now then, now then, what would Sir
:37:59. > :38:04.Jimmy do? We are joined by Strictly Nancy. Good Evening.
:38:04. > :38:10.Good Evening to you. Tell us, what motivated you to do Strictly? Was
:38:10. > :38:15.it the dancing, the entertainment or the money? Money?! Will we see
:38:15. > :38:22.money?! Oh, I think you received quite a lot of money? Well... No,
:38:22. > :38:25.well I think the thing is definitely. Well one thing
:38:25. > :38:31.definitely, my number one motivation is what I wanted
:38:31. > :38:34.probably the viewers to see that I can be quite funny, I have a good
:38:34. > :38:40.sense of humour and I can laugh about myself. I think that I
:38:40. > :38:44.deliver this. Maybe in ways you never thought. Absolutely. My
:38:44. > :38:49.friends, people that know me, they know that I'm quite funny. Do you
:38:49. > :38:54.know, Alastair? Yes, I know that, I know you're funny. Do you know
:38:54. > :39:00.that? I do know that. What motivates you
:39:00. > :39:04.more generally and gets you out of bed in the morning? To make a
:39:04. > :39:10.difference. That sounds like a politician? Well, I mean, my
:39:10. > :39:12.background comes from that and it goes quite well why we are here on
:39:12. > :39:20.this programme. To make a difference. This is the reason why,
:39:20. > :39:26.in one way, I don't know why, I became a so-called celebrity in
:39:26. > :39:35.this country or famous, that was not my choice, I came here now ten
:39:35. > :39:39.years ago. I came brought up in a football world. I've been the first
:39:39. > :39:43.one declared to be the First Lady of English football. I don't know
:39:43. > :39:47.what that means, I don't know if you had one before that. I tried to
:39:47. > :39:53.make sense for why to be the papers never stop talking about me,
:39:53. > :39:59.everything I to create a news. what motivates you? Motivated me.
:39:59. > :40:03.And has it changed? Of course it changed. Always. You haven't always
:40:03. > :40:08.been around saying, I'm here to make a difference? Well, make a
:40:08. > :40:13.difference and at the same time... Well, OK, is this the beginning,
:40:13. > :40:18.since I remember in my early days at university, probably flirting
:40:18. > :40:24.make a difference. Flirting? Flirting make a difference.
:40:24. > :40:27.flirt, big flirt. How do you know about it? I'm not doing too well.
:40:27. > :40:33.What motivates you two bruisers? come here at this time of night. It
:40:33. > :40:38.was the fact that I knew Nancy was going to be on. Right answer.
:40:38. > :40:44.motivates you? To be stimulated, to be busy. To be challenged. Making a
:40:44. > :40:48.difference is a fair enough motivation. I think being... I've
:40:48. > :40:54.got an absolute terror of boredom, so I have to keep myself engaged.
:40:54. > :41:00.So you have to be the perpetual motion machine? A little bit.
:41:00. > :41:05.Having lots of different things around me to stimulate me. What
:41:05. > :41:10.motivated you to go into politics and if you say to make a difference,
:41:10. > :41:15.I might strangle you on live television? I think it was the most
:41:15. > :41:19.fascinating thing I could do. I was right. Power? It's so dif fuse in
:41:19. > :41:24.politics, you spend all your time arguing with people, I never felt
:41:24. > :41:29.like power, but I did feel that we were painting on a hugely broad
:41:29. > :41:33.canvas. That I found really stimulating. You and power, it's an
:41:34. > :41:39.attractive thing to have? I was very close to power.
:41:39. > :41:44.influenced? Yes, but funnily enough I don't miss that. I'm still very
:41:44. > :41:48.interested in it. I said earlier the guys being described as the
:41:48. > :41:52.most 20 powerful people in the world and they are not, nor do I
:41:52. > :41:55.agree with it. You are never quite as powerful as you feel or as you
:41:55. > :42:00.are being described as in the media. Do you think that money's become
:42:00. > :42:06.the all conquering motivation now? Particularly for young people?
:42:06. > :42:11.Unnorth Natalie, yes, especially in a society we live in today --
:42:11. > :42:18.unfortunately, yes. We see young people trying to find the short cut
:42:18. > :42:24.to become quite easily famous and rich. That is quite scary. People
:42:24. > :42:28.want to be you, they want to be a celebrity? Well, they want to be me,
:42:28. > :42:33.they'll be good trying to be me, but I have to know what this
:42:33. > :42:40.comfort means to people. It's good to be you? It's not easy to be me.
:42:40. > :42:44.It's easy, Alastair? I don't know. I'm glad you brought him in. If
:42:44. > :42:51.only because you embarrassed him. Let's be honest, Nancy, you've
:42:51. > :42:55.always liked being notorious and in the papers. Yes, but I never like
:42:55. > :43:02.it. Remember when Nancy strode up Downing Street in a red trouser
:43:02. > :43:06.suit? We can remember that. Alastair that, was... Sorry, we've
:43:06. > :43:13.run out of time. That image of the red trouser suit. That's your lot
:43:13. > :43:15.for tonight, folks! But not for us. You can carry on talking, because
:43:15. > :43:20.Annabel's pipped the Ministry of Sound to the best club in London
:43:20. > :43:27.gong at the Michael Winner Dinner Awards this week and we all wanted
:43:27. > :43:31.to win one of those. With Strictly Nancy gagging for a rumba with
:43:31. > :43:35.Alastair b and Michael promising to show us his Robbie Savage hip
:43:35. > :43:37.thrust - yes, I want to see that too - we are all on a collision
:43:38. > :43:41.course with the dance floor. We leave you with a sign of things to
:43:41. > :43:45.come. With Europe a busted flush the sight of President Sarkozy left