:00:07. > :00:11.Tonight we're deep in the political jungle. And with scary economic
:00:11. > :00:14.news all around, should we all be saying, "Get me out of here"? The
:00:14. > :00:18.big political beasts have been prowling the House of Commons but
:00:18. > :00:28.can Cameron and Osborne keep the public voting for them? The BBC's
:00:28. > :00:29.
:00:29. > :00:32.James Landale has been doing a hairy bushtucker trial.
:00:32. > :00:36.In a week of tumultuous economic news, I will be looking at just how
:00:36. > :00:39.hairy it is getting for the big beasts in the political jungle.
:00:40. > :00:43.Unrest in the undergrowth as public sector workers strike over pensions.
:00:43. > :00:52.King of the swingers, jungle VIP Billy Bragg, strums the strikers
:00:52. > :00:56.tune. The strikes this week reminded everyone of the 1980s, but
:00:56. > :00:58.now the haircuts are different, and so are the policies.
:00:58. > :01:01.And colourful plumage in the jungle environment. As the outrageous
:01:01. > :01:09.filmmaker Ken Russell dies, is flamboyance going out of fashion?
:01:09. > :01:13.Original extrovert Jodie Marsh is queen of the This Week jungle.
:01:13. > :01:17.is important to be out there, and I have always been prepared to go all
:01:17. > :01:19.the way. I'm a TV presenter, get me out of
:01:19. > :01:23.here! Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week,
:01:23. > :01:26.the show with viewers and friends in low places. Just like Prime
:01:26. > :01:30.Ministers, in fact, who've often surrounded themselves with dubious
:01:30. > :01:35.confidants and advisers. After all, the Former Great Leader had Damien
:01:35. > :01:39.McPoison. Toblerone had Mandy. Maggie claimed she couldn't do
:01:39. > :01:44.without her Willie. And now Call- me-Dave has his own dangling
:01:44. > :01:47.appendage, otherwise known as Jeremy Clarkson. The week started
:01:47. > :01:52.well for the PM's petrol-head pal with the scrapping of a planned 3p
:01:52. > :01:57.increase in fuel duty. Chancellor Boy George claimed this would
:01:57. > :02:01."save" Clarkson �144 a year. According to that logic, if Gidders
:02:01. > :02:05.had announced a �1 increase and then scrapped it before it came in,
:02:05. > :02:10.he'd have saved Jezza nearly five grand! And made him split his tight
:02:10. > :02:13.blue jeans in delight! But the week's not ending well for the
:02:13. > :02:16.beating heart of the Chipping Norton Set, with the Top Gear
:02:16. > :02:19.presenter forced into a Top Grovel apology after advising his chum
:02:19. > :02:25.Dave to shoot striking public sector workers in front of their
:02:25. > :02:27.families. At least he didn't say they should be tortured first. But,
:02:27. > :02:34.at PMQ's, the Bagpuss-bothering MP Jacob Rees-Mogg urged Call-me-Dave
:02:34. > :02:37.to sack all the strikers first. And the PM refused to rule it out.
:02:37. > :02:41.Don't say he's not prepared to take tough decisions. Although
:02:41. > :02:46.recruiting the now-arrested My Tram Experience girl as the new head of
:02:46. > :02:50.the UK Border Agency might be a step too far even for the Tories.
:02:50. > :02:53.Speaking of those whose judgement can't be trusted, I'm joined on the
:02:54. > :03:03.sofa tonight by the Judge Judy and Judge Dredd of late night political
:03:04. > :03:07.
:03:07. > :03:12.chat. I speak, of course, of Michael Portillo and Gisela Stewart.
:03:12. > :03:16.Michael, you're moment? storming of the British Embassy in
:03:16. > :03:22.Iran and the subsequent events, the closing of the embassy and the
:03:22. > :03:24.expulsion of Iranian diplomats. But to put it into context, there was
:03:24. > :03:29.an international Energy Authority report which said that Iran was
:03:29. > :03:33.making progress with its nuclear weapons. Since then there have been
:03:33. > :03:37.two sets of explosions in Iran. One of them we have seen was absolutely
:03:37. > :03:42.devastating, at a military base, with 17 people killed and buildings
:03:42. > :03:46.eradicated. And a series of more recent explosions about which we
:03:46. > :03:51.know less. It looks to me like somebody is blowing up a military
:03:51. > :03:55.facilities in Iran and it is not Iranians doing it. So it is not
:03:55. > :03:59.accidents? I think there must be a connection between a titan of this
:03:59. > :04:03.group in military terms on Iran and the actions of the crowds in Thuram
:04:03. > :04:06.storming the British Embassy. While attention is on the Euro and
:04:06. > :04:11.economy and so on, something interesting is going on in our
:04:11. > :04:16.relationship with Iran. Interesting, particularly the explosions, which
:04:16. > :04:21.I had missed because I'm absorbed with the eurozone. For me, it is
:04:21. > :04:24.what Mervyn King has been saying, particularly today. It is becoming
:04:24. > :04:27.clear that the thing that it has not been possible to save for
:04:27. > :04:29.months, even though people have noted, that there is a real
:04:29. > :04:36.possibility of the eurozone breaking up, is now becoming
:04:36. > :04:41.something people, are beginning to whisper, which is for a significant.
:04:41. > :04:45.Not just here, but also on the Continent. I have never heard a
:04:45. > :04:49.central banker speak like that. Now, we've decided to announce a
:04:49. > :04:53.new award here on This Week, for Employee Creep of the Week. Don't
:04:53. > :04:56.worry, Michael, it's not going to you, this time. It's going instead
:04:56. > :05:00.to Call-Me-Dave's press aide, Gaby Bertin, who wasted no time in
:05:00. > :05:05.rushing up to Heathrow to cross a flying picket line, and help man
:05:05. > :05:09.our porous borders. Cameron must have been very proud. A home-grown
:05:09. > :05:19.strike breaker! So we've asked our own strike supporter, musician
:05:19. > :05:25.
:05:25. > :05:32.Billy Bragg, for his take of this # There is power in a factory,
:05:32. > :05:37.power in the land # Power in the hand of the worker
:05:37. > :05:47.# But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand
:05:47. > :05:47.
:05:48. > :05:51.# There is power in a union. # Yesterday saw the biggest strikes
:05:51. > :05:55.in a generation and already people are comparing it to the miners'
:05:55. > :05:58.strike, but I think it is different. That was in one industry in
:05:58. > :06:03.different parts of the country. What we saw yesterday was teachers,
:06:03. > :06:08.nurses, dinner ladies, border guards, all coming together for one
:06:08. > :06:14.big cause, to say to the Government, enough, enough of making us work
:06:14. > :06:20.longer and pay more to get less, enough of not appreciating the hard
:06:20. > :06:27.work that we do, enough of making public sector workers pay off the
:06:27. > :06:29.debts accrued by the bankers and the financial sector. The
:06:29. > :06:33.Government of the is the thing that public sector workers are soft
:06:33. > :06:36.touch, and some ministers seem to be hoping for a re-run of the 1980s
:06:36. > :06:41.when Margaret Thatcher won successive elections by defeating
:06:41. > :06:46.the industrial unions. There is even talk of the strikers walking
:06:46. > :06:50.into a Tory trap. But I think this time it is different. Back then,
:06:50. > :06:55.most people saw the unions as over- powerful. Now, they are seen to be
:06:55. > :06:58.the only people willing to stand up for fairness in the workplace.
:06:59. > :07:03.Although the miners' strike was a titanic struggle, it was local. The
:07:03. > :07:09.crisis we face now is international. Our economic prospects are tied to
:07:09. > :07:14.those of Europe and the United States.
:07:14. > :07:24.# With our brothers and our sisters, together we will stand
:07:24. > :07:24.
:07:24. > :07:29.# There is power in our union. # Crucially, Margaret Thatcher never
:07:29. > :07:31.had any Liberal Democrats in her Cabinet. If the junior coalition
:07:31. > :07:36.partners want to avoid the anger that awaits them at the next
:07:36. > :07:41.election, they need to pressure the Tories into doing more, like making
:07:41. > :07:47.sure no more freshly printed money is squandered on bankers and is
:07:47. > :07:51.instead targeted at those who need it. Instead of the Iron Lady, this
:07:51. > :07:58.time the unions face the cardboard coalition, flimsily held together
:07:58. > :08:01.by George Osborne's determination not to lose face. If the economic
:08:01. > :08:05.storms continued to strengthen and the Labour Party stays shamefully
:08:06. > :08:15.on the fence, the unions could yet play an important part in sweeping
:08:16. > :08:25.
:08:25. > :08:30.Billy Bragg has left his Music Shop to join our little studio. Welcome
:08:30. > :08:35.back to the programme. Let me put something to you. The economy is in
:08:35. > :08:40.a mess, there is no growth, we are drowning in debt, even this
:08:40. > :08:46.Government is adding 111 billion more in debt. There has never been
:08:46. > :08:50.a more grim economic scenario in modern times. The public sector
:08:50. > :08:53.cannot be immune. To I do not think in needs to be immune, but the
:08:54. > :08:59.pension situation needs to be sorted out fairly. Public sector
:08:59. > :09:03.workers feel angry because they are having their pay freeze, they are
:09:04. > :09:08.having only a 1% rise when the freeze is over. The Government have
:09:08. > :09:14.acted unilaterally by saying, take it or leave it. There is a feeling
:09:14. > :09:19.they have tried to anger the unions into this action. Most people who
:09:19. > :09:24.were inconvenienced by the strike have pensions that are not nearly
:09:24. > :09:28.as good on average as the ones that the public sector have. And public
:09:28. > :09:33.sector pay, on average, is now higher than the private sector.
:09:33. > :09:36.That is true. But ultimately, when these people in the private sector
:09:36. > :09:40.who do not have any pensions, when they get into their mid- 80s, if
:09:40. > :09:44.they live longer, who is going to look after them? They are going to
:09:44. > :09:47.fall back on the state as well. At least the public sector workers
:09:47. > :09:51.will have paid into the pension scheme from which they benefit. We
:09:51. > :09:56.are either going to have to bail out those without pensions, or
:09:56. > :10:00.return to the poor house. That is not practical. But Government is
:10:00. > :10:05.not really asking public sector workers to do anything out of
:10:05. > :10:10.proportion to what it is asking the rest of the country to do. I know
:10:10. > :10:14.there are a few mega rich at the top, but nearly everybody's living
:10:14. > :10:21.standard has been squeezed at the moment. In the private sector,
:10:21. > :10:26.nobody is getting a pay rise either. It is grim out there. It is. But it
:10:26. > :10:30.is not as if there is no choice. The public sector pension scheme is
:10:30. > :10:33.going to go down, the cost of it is going to go down over the next
:10:33. > :10:37.decade. This is a choice we are making as a country and many of us
:10:37. > :10:42.believe it is the wrong choice. That assumes the economy is growing
:10:42. > :10:46.but the Chancellor told us there is not much sign of that. Are the
:10:46. > :10:49.Conservatives spoiling for a fight, Michael? I doubt it. But I think
:10:50. > :10:55.that they do think that yesterday's striker has played into the
:10:55. > :10:58.Government's hands, because it gives an opportunity to make a lot
:10:58. > :11:04.of the arguments about the comparison between the public and
:11:04. > :11:09.private sector. A teacher and earns �37,000 at the end of their career,
:11:09. > :11:15.if you are in the private sector, you need to have invested �700,000.
:11:15. > :11:18.Which nobody has done, in order to get a pension of that size. Billy
:11:18. > :11:22.Bragg is interested in fairness and I do not disagree with all of his
:11:22. > :11:26.remarks. But there is an unfairness between the public and private
:11:26. > :11:29.sector which is bad for the economy. If you are enticing people who come
:11:29. > :11:32.out of university, out-of-school, to go into the public sector
:11:32. > :11:36.because it is better paid than the private sector, you end up with an
:11:36. > :11:39.unbalanced economy. The other thing is that there has been a benefit
:11:39. > :11:44.for all of us which is difficult to recognise, which is that we are
:11:44. > :11:48.living 10 years longer than we expected when we were 20 years old.
:11:48. > :11:52.That is a benefit to us. It is hard for us to recognise, but it has to
:11:52. > :11:57.get paid for by somebody. The most obvious person to pay for that is
:11:57. > :12:01.the person himself, or herself. do not think public sector workers
:12:01. > :12:05.mind paying for their pensions. But they want to feel they are not
:12:05. > :12:08.pushed into it, not squeezed into it. I think everybody should have a
:12:08. > :12:11.proper pension, employers should contribute to pensions, because
:12:11. > :12:15.ultimately somebody will have to pay for the care of the people who
:12:15. > :12:20.live longer. But the issue is, what is the effect on the Conservative
:12:20. > :12:23.Party? David Cameron tried to act as a compassionate Conservative at
:12:23. > :12:27.the last election. Even when he was being compassionate, he could not
:12:27. > :12:32.win a majority. Now he is starting to be nasty again, think it will
:12:32. > :12:38.cost him at the next general election. Did you follow the Labour
:12:38. > :12:44.Party line, we are not backing the strike but we will not condemn it?
:12:44. > :12:48.I think Cameron is spoiling for a fight. The last Prime Minister's
:12:48. > :12:54.Question Time was the nastiest I have been in and I have been in the
:12:54. > :12:58.house for 14 years. It was like old times for me. You have said it, I
:12:58. > :13:03.think Cameron wanted it to be like old times. He wanted to say, Ed
:13:03. > :13:07.Miliband is in the hands of the trade unions. There were jokes
:13:07. > :13:11.about the Labour benches not just speaking in unison but speaking for
:13:11. > :13:16.UNISON. For me, it outlined the fact that these terms, public
:13:16. > :13:19.sector, do not define the sector. 20 years ago, the deal was that you
:13:20. > :13:24.worked in the public sector and had comparatively low wages compared to
:13:24. > :13:28.the PUP -- private sector but you had job security and pensions. And
:13:28. > :13:31.now you have this huge range in the public sector from the dinner lady
:13:31. > :13:36.to the chief executive of big city councils, who earns twice as much
:13:36. > :13:39.as the Prime Minister. I think Billy is right that it does hit
:13:39. > :13:42.disproportionately those low incomes, and some of the high
:13:42. > :13:46.incomes, who get private sector benefits and the public sector
:13:46. > :13:50.benefits as well. But what is the answer to the question that I
:13:50. > :13:54.asked? Did you take the Labour line that we are not backing the strike
:13:54. > :13:59.but we do not condemn it? I can understand why they came out. I
:13:59. > :14:05.will tell you why I thought they were angry. Did you supported, or
:14:05. > :14:08.not? I think both sides should not have let it get to it. I went and
:14:08. > :14:13.talked to the pickets and I understood the people in the House
:14:13. > :14:18.of Commons. I wish they were not there. This is part of the problem.
:14:18. > :14:21.Normally, we should rely on the Labour Party. The unions have tried
:14:21. > :14:25.everything. There were unions on strike this week that have never
:14:25. > :14:30.been on strike before. If you compare it to the 1980s, the
:14:30. > :14:35.support for this action is so much broader. It is not complex, it is
:14:35. > :14:38.very simple. It is not even left and right like it used to be. It is
:14:38. > :14:41.about the people against unaccountable corporate power.
:14:41. > :14:45.Whether you are on the side of the people or on the side of the
:14:45. > :14:48.corporate power, that is what it is about. You cannot even get the
:14:48. > :14:53.Labour Party to understand that and to back you, so what hope do you
:14:53. > :14:58.have of winning? The leadership of the Labour Party. There are a lot
:14:58. > :15:01.of members who are sympathetic to public service workers. Another
:15:01. > :15:04.hole in your argument is that this is a row with a coalition
:15:04. > :15:11.government. You have tried to painted as a row with the
:15:11. > :15:14.Conservatives. But actually it is a coalition Government. You said it
:15:14. > :15:18.was unrepresentative. Actually, the Government represents 60% of the
:15:18. > :15:22.people who voted at the last election. I do not think your
:15:22. > :15:29.strikes were as solid as you are saying. It is not unusual for
:15:29. > :15:34.teachers to go on strike. The destruction of the airports did not
:15:34. > :15:39.help -- it did not happen. Thatcher had a thumping majority when she
:15:39. > :15:43.took on the unions and people were behind her. People perhaps did not
:15:43. > :15:47.care where there: their cars came from, but they certainly care about
:15:47. > :15:57.the quality of the teaching for their children. I think you are
:15:57. > :16:00.
:16:00. > :16:09.indulging in nostalgia. I thought I think it is much more political
:16:09. > :16:15.now. I think the opportunity for real change is much greater.
:16:15. > :16:20.Tory leadership, they're going to think, Billy Bragg, he's strumming
:16:20. > :16:25.his guitar, he thinks it is the 1980s, he's walking into the trap,
:16:25. > :16:29.he's useful for us. That is the danger for you. No, ultimately, if
:16:29. > :16:33.you want to change anything in this country, ultimately, even if you
:16:33. > :16:41.set up a camp down at St or can it -- down at St Paul's, fundamentally,
:16:41. > :16:44.you have got organised. For a long time, I have felt the best way to
:16:44. > :16:49.approach politics is not New Labour or Old Labour, it is organised
:16:50. > :16:53.labour. But it has got to be more than a one-day strike, one-day
:16:53. > :16:58.strikes to not achieve anything. You have got to stop the country.
:16:58. > :17:02.disagree. You're not talking about miners and power workers who want
:17:02. > :17:06.to bring the country to a halt. You're talking about people who
:17:06. > :17:15.work in caring professions. They do not want to go on strike, they're
:17:15. > :17:21.not getting any way from this government. This government was not
:17:21. > :17:25.able to win a mandate, they scored an open goal by acting as they did
:17:25. > :17:27.in the time of Margaret Thatcher. When it comes to the next general
:17:27. > :17:32.election, people are going to be looking for leadership on this
:17:32. > :17:42.issue from the Labour Party, and I hope it is forthcoming. You have
:17:42. > :17:44.
:17:44. > :17:48.had the last word, thank you for being with us. The editors of lads
:17:48. > :17:54.magazines may not have had the cojones to put a woman up for
:17:54. > :18:02.Sports Personality of the Year. But Jodie Marsh will be defending
:18:02. > :18:08.flamboyance for us tonight. You can check us out on the interweb, or as
:18:08. > :18:15.always, on Facebook. Did you know that shaving with stone raisers was
:18:15. > :18:21.technologically possible from neolithic times? Did you? Cambridge
:18:21. > :18:28.education, useless. And that the oldest portrait showing a shaved
:18:28. > :18:34.man with a moustache visit in -- is of an ancient Iranian horsemen from
:18:34. > :18:39.300 BC? Such information may seem a tad frivolous to viewers of the
:18:39. > :18:45.serious political programme, such as this one, but with austerity all
:18:45. > :18:49.round, and only nine days left to save the euro, we're in need of a
:18:49. > :18:52.little light diversion. James Landale has been disappointing
:18:52. > :19:02.ladies everywhere for the past month by growing a moustache for
:19:02. > :19:12.
:19:13. > :19:15.charity. Here's his round-up of the Like the Chancellor of the
:19:15. > :19:20.Exchequer, George Osborne, I have spent much of the last month
:19:20. > :19:24.looking for growth, a little facial hair, to raise money for the
:19:24. > :19:33.Movember Cancer Campaign. But in the House of Commons this week, the
:19:33. > :19:38.only growth to be felt was on the faces of MPs. Can I first of all
:19:38. > :19:47.congratulate him and the other 37 members who have opted to grow
:19:47. > :19:52.additional facial hair in this month of Movember. This government
:19:52. > :19:56.was forced to admit that the economy was in serious trouble, the
:19:56. > :20:00.deficit will not be cut by the next election, spending will have to be
:20:00. > :20:04.trimmed for the next two years, and the next election will not be about
:20:04. > :20:11.who is going to cut taxes the most, but about who we trust to finish
:20:11. > :20:13.the job of fixing the economy. central forecast we published today
:20:13. > :20:22.from the Independent Office for Budget Responsibility does not
:20:22. > :20:25.predict a recession here in Britain. But they have, unsurprisingly,
:20:25. > :20:30.revised down their short-term growth prospects for our country,
:20:30. > :20:34.for Europe and for the world. and on went the grim numbers, but
:20:34. > :20:38.even these, it emerged, were on the optimistic side. All this gloom was
:20:38. > :20:43.based on the extraordinary assumption that all is well in Euro
:20:44. > :20:49.land, just as the Fed propped up European banks with a fistful of
:20:49. > :20:55.Dollars. But if the rest of Europe heads into recession, it may prove
:20:55. > :20:59.hard to avoid one here in the UK. The Shadow Chancellor may be a shop
:20:59. > :21:03.chap, he has had a lot of trouble pointing out the flatline economy.
:21:03. > :21:13.He thinks he has been proved right, but he's struggling to convince
:21:13. > :21:13.
:21:13. > :21:17.voters that Labour's plan BHA is better than the Tory Plan A. Growth
:21:18. > :21:23.flat lining this year, next year and the hereafter, unemployment
:21:23. > :21:30.rising, more borrowing than the plan which the Chancellor inherited
:21:30. > :21:40.at the last general election, the verdict is in, Plan A has failed,
:21:40. > :21:48.
:21:48. > :21:53.# Here I go, singing low, Bye-bye, blackbird. But what of the
:21:53. > :21:56.coalition? The truth is that the economic gloom is binding the
:21:56. > :22:00.Tories and the Lib Dems closer together. They are already talking
:22:00. > :22:04.about what they're going to do after the next election. MPs on
:22:04. > :22:09.both sides are getting nervous. Clearly it is going to be a hairy
:22:09. > :22:13.ride. So, you're going into the next election promising further
:22:13. > :22:19.billions of pounds in cuts in public spending, that is what
:22:19. > :22:23.you're going to say in your manifesto? I'm afraid so, yes.
:22:23. > :22:28.thought your promise was that in the last year of this government,
:22:28. > :22:33.we would not necessarily be giving unequivocal endorsement to every
:22:33. > :22:37.government policy. Because economic circumstances have deteriorated, we
:22:37. > :22:45.have had to make this commitment, to set out plans for those
:22:45. > :22:54.following tingly years. Amid all of this, the public sector was on --
:22:54. > :22:58.was in a lather, and went on strike. Michael Gove reminded us that he,
:22:59. > :23:05.too, had once been on strike. believe that people should have the
:23:05. > :23:08.choice to be members of the union. But he has changed his tune now.
:23:08. > :23:12.Among those union leaders are people who fight hard for the
:23:12. > :23:22.members, and whom I respect. But there are also hardliners,
:23:22. > :23:26.militants, itching for a fight. David Cameron and Ed Miliband, the
:23:26. > :23:29.strikes were a battle for public opinion. What the voters blame the
:23:29. > :23:34.Prime Minister or the unions? What did they make of the Labour
:23:34. > :23:38.leader's refusal to condemn or support the action? In the House of
:23:38. > :23:43.Commons, the knives were out. has the Prime Minister gone round
:23:43. > :23:47.saying to people? He has gone round saying he's privately delighted the
:23:47. > :23:51.unions have walked into a trap. That is the reality, he has been
:23:52. > :23:56.spoiling for this fight. Let me repeat again what he said in June -
:23:56. > :24:01.it is wrong to strike when negotiations are going on. And yet
:24:01. > :24:06.today he backs the strikes. Why? Because he's irresponsible, left
:24:06. > :24:12.wing and weak. Unlike him, I'm not going to demonise the dinner lady,
:24:12. > :24:18.the cleaner, the nurse. People who are earn in a week what the
:24:18. > :24:22.Chancellor pays for his annual skiing holiday. And so, the
:24:22. > :24:28.strikers struck, but did it change anything? Yes, the public sector
:24:28. > :24:32.are let off steam, but did it make a deal more or less likely? It
:24:32. > :24:37.depends who's spin you believe. And there was some of that over at the
:24:37. > :24:42.Leveson inquiry this week, where Andy Coulson was part of the
:24:42. > :24:49.evidence. There were some sharp exchanges. Did your editor's know
:24:49. > :24:56.that voice mails were being intercepted? Yes. In that we did
:24:56. > :24:58.all these things for our editors, for Rebekah Brooks and Andy Coulson.
:24:58. > :25:03.They were the scum of journalism for trying to drop me and my
:25:03. > :25:08.colleagues in it. At the moment I think we have a press which has
:25:08. > :25:13.become frankly putrid in many of its elements. Let me emphasise, not
:25:13. > :25:19.all journalists and not all titles. So, the mood music from Westminster
:25:19. > :25:24.this week was dire. No more growth, no more pampering - thank you,
:25:24. > :25:31.Adrian - just cuts, cuts, and more cuts. The only answer, perhaps, a
:25:31. > :25:41.stiff upper lip, and for now, not a hairy one. This is one cut that
:25:41. > :25:43.
:25:43. > :25:48.The BBC's James Landale having a close shave with the Pall Mall
:25:48. > :25:54.barbers in central London. Michael, the Chancellor's Autumn Statement,
:25:54. > :25:58.really a budget in all but name, it was very grim, but I suggest to you,
:25:58. > :26:02.if the eurozone goes belly-up, which it might, it will turn out to
:26:02. > :26:08.have been actually optimistic. Absolutely, this is the most
:26:08. > :26:10.optimistic scenario. It could be a lot worse. There's the eurozone,
:26:10. > :26:14.there's also the banking problem which has not been resolved,
:26:15. > :26:18.because no proper changes have been made. Also, it could be that we are
:26:18. > :26:22.in a moment of history where the leadership of the world is moving
:26:22. > :26:26.from the west to the east, where the West is now a competitive in
:26:26. > :26:30.its labour practices, in its education, in the people coming out
:26:30. > :26:34.with degrees, in the size of the welfare state. There may be big
:26:34. > :26:37.changes afoot. People are talking about a lost decade in Britain. It
:26:37. > :26:47.may be more than that, it may be that we have to make enormous
:26:47. > :26:52.changes if we are ever to compete with the new world that we are in.
:26:52. > :26:56.Gisela Stuart, would you say if or when the eurozone collapses?
:26:56. > :26:59.think it is a question of when. The only way of holding this together
:26:59. > :27:04.is by the German economy picking up a bill which ultimately it will not
:27:04. > :27:09.be able to, because it will make itself uncompetitive. It will
:27:09. > :27:12.simply delay the evil day. Going back to the Autumn Statement, at
:27:12. > :27:17.the moment we're talking about public sector pensions and all of
:27:17. > :27:21.those things. Important as they are, we also have to look at what is
:27:21. > :27:25.happening in the next generation. A third of people in Birmingham are
:27:25. > :27:28.under the age of 24. Probably a third of those are not currently in
:27:28. > :27:35.jobs. We need to have a sense of where those future jobs are going
:27:35. > :27:38.to come from. But that is a Europe- wide problem. There are main just
:27:38. > :27:42.16 million people unemployed just in the eurozone alone. And the
:27:42. > :27:47.unemployment rates among the young are astronomical. In Spain it is
:27:47. > :27:52.40%, in Italy, 30%. And we are now heading in the same way. There is
:27:52. > :27:56.something quite fundamentally wrong with our economies. It is the
:27:56. > :28:01.structural competitiveness. If we do not regain that... It goes back
:28:02. > :28:06.to what we teach in school, and it flows from having a sense of where
:28:06. > :28:09.the jobs come from, and we still have not have that debate. With our
:28:09. > :28:14.level of debt, we are extraordinarily vulnerable. Every
:28:14. > :28:19.year, some of the debt matures, and you have to renew it, you have to
:28:19. > :28:26.sell new gilts. Selling it at 2%, we're fine. But if the market loses
:28:26. > :28:29.confidence, and we have to start paying 6%, that is win. It means
:28:29. > :28:33.that more and more of your economy each year is devoted to simply
:28:34. > :28:37.paying the debt. We're better off than those European countries, but
:28:37. > :28:42.you cannot ban combat. At any market, the markets could turn
:28:42. > :28:46.against us, we are very, very vulnerable. -- you cannot bank on
:28:46. > :28:52.it. Is this the end of a society which thought it could do
:28:52. > :29:01.everything on debt. The government, individuals... We took out �300
:29:02. > :29:06.billion in equity withdrawal from our homes between 2007 -- between
:29:06. > :29:10.2000 and 2007. Corporations borrowed, too. We financed
:29:10. > :29:16.socialism with debt, or we fjord capitalism with debt. And the party
:29:16. > :29:20.is over, and the hangover is long and painful. And that's why some of
:29:20. > :29:24.those reforms which need to come actually have to be far more
:29:24. > :29:28.meaningful than what is happening at the moment. If we look at the
:29:28. > :29:32.NHS reforms, huge amounts of money being chucked at the system which,
:29:32. > :29:38.quite frankly, I cannot work out what is meant to achieve, other
:29:38. > :29:41.than it is a kind of anarchy. What I thought was good in the Autumn
:29:41. > :29:48.Statement was the infrastructure investment, I think it was good to
:29:48. > :29:52.get investment back into schools. And I think they need to do fewer
:29:52. > :29:56.things, and much more focused on creating jobs for the next
:29:56. > :30:00.generation. That is the key. If we do not do that, all the rest of it
:30:00. > :30:07.will be used us. Are we not scaremongering too much? We always
:30:08. > :30:13.seem to be 10 days away from the crisis. It is like in the days of
:30:13. > :30:18.Arthur Scargill, it was always six weeks left. It is perfectly true
:30:19. > :30:22.that you and I have been predicting disaster for some time. But I do
:30:22. > :30:27.think things are progressively getting worse. There was the
:30:27. > :30:30.warning this week that the bond markets had pretty much seized up,
:30:30. > :30:35.governments were finding it very, very hoard to borrow, and banks
:30:35. > :30:39.were very reluctant to lend to other banks overnight. We had this
:30:39. > :30:43.huge initiative by the US Federal Reserve. I'm afraid there is hard
:30:44. > :30:50.evidence that the situation is deteriorating. Tell us, you're
:30:50. > :30:58.originally from Germany, what will Angela Merkel do, if we wake up one
:30:58. > :31:02.morning, and Italy cannot get its debt away, the banking system has
:31:02. > :31:12.frozen up, does she give in to the French, does the European Central
:31:12. > :31:13.
:31:13. > :31:17.Bank become the lender of last She is caught between a rock and a
:31:17. > :31:21.hard place. She knows that the ECB cannot be the lender of last resort
:31:21. > :31:25.if the problem is insolvency. Her bank is only a lender of last
:31:25. > :31:29.resort if liquidity is the problem. If you are going bust, even the
:31:29. > :31:33.Bank cannot bail you out. But President Sarkozy is pushing her
:31:33. > :31:37.that way because he does not want to lose the credit rating for
:31:37. > :31:41.France. Politically, for the Germans, it is almost impossible to
:31:41. > :31:45.be the ones who say, this project has run up against the buffers. I
:31:45. > :31:51.do not know what she is going to do but whichever way, she will be
:31:51. > :31:58.blamed for having done it wrong. The Autumn Statement, Michael, we
:31:58. > :32:02.covered it live on the day the politics. -- the daily politics. It
:32:02. > :32:07.dawned on me that it was quite a watershed, because we were suddenly
:32:07. > :32:13.talking about an economy that was not growing, that is a shrunken
:32:13. > :32:18.economy, much smaller than in 2007, and that living standards were
:32:18. > :32:24.going to be squeezed hard and for up to 14 years. This is a whole new
:32:24. > :32:28.economic scenario. And it is a whole new political scenario. All
:32:28. > :32:34.of the politics that we can remember has been about politicians
:32:34. > :32:37.promising better times. And fuelling expectations. We could be
:32:37. > :32:44.into a new politics, for which we are very poorly suited, where we
:32:44. > :32:47.have to lead people to expect less and less on a yearly basis. The
:32:47. > :32:51.answer we just sort of Danny Alexander talking to Jeremy Paxman
:32:51. > :33:00.was interesting. Will you go into the next election promising cuts?
:33:00. > :33:03.Yes. No politician has said that in our lifetimes. I am less gloomy, in
:33:03. > :33:08.that the British political system is better suited to deal with tough
:33:08. > :33:11.times and for leaders to emerge in tough times, because we are not so
:33:11. > :33:18.tied to the continuous consensus seeking which fudges difficult
:33:18. > :33:22.decisions. It is proving hard for Labour, as the Conservatives did
:33:22. > :33:27.after Black Friday in the 1990s, it took them a long time to regain
:33:27. > :33:37.their economic credibility. And Labour has lost its economic
:33:37. > :33:38.
:33:38. > :33:42.credibility. Therefore, how can Mr Miliband and Mr Balls get that
:33:42. > :33:46.economic credibility? I would not agree with you that we have lost
:33:46. > :33:50.economic credibility, but I think what you have, and Michael knows
:33:50. > :33:57.this better than I do, it actually takes governments, once you become
:33:57. > :34:00.opposition, quite some time to get over the idea of still being the
:34:00. > :34:05.government and you become the opposition which opposes, because
:34:05. > :34:10.that is our job and comes up with alternatives. I think it is too
:34:10. > :34:14.early at this stage. It is easily lost and hard-won, Economic
:34:15. > :34:19.reputation. I have been quite surprised, as a Conservative
:34:19. > :34:24.supporter, quite heartened that Ed Balls, who has the easier argument,
:34:24. > :34:28.has not prevailed. The easy argument is to say the markets are
:34:28. > :34:33.lending at 2% and Yuri falter not borrow more and make life easier
:34:33. > :34:39.for yourself. -- you are a fool to not to it. At the moment, that
:34:39. > :34:44.argument, tempting and plausible, is not getting any attention.
:34:44. > :34:50.Ed Balls has been very interesting. If you look at the way he has new
:34:50. > :34:55.ones to his argument, he is genuinely rethinking positions.
:34:55. > :35:00.is saying, borrow more. Because, in a sense, in some areas I think we
:35:00. > :35:05.will have to put more infrastructure investment in.
:35:05. > :35:11.borrowing was the solution, we would not be in the mess. That is
:35:11. > :35:15.where the new ones is. There are two schools of thought. There are
:35:15. > :35:18.those same, help yourself to more and make things easier and go for
:35:18. > :35:22.growth. I think it is significant that the coalition is holding
:35:22. > :35:25.together. I think in the first 72 hours after the last general
:35:25. > :35:29.election they were so scared by what the civil servants told them
:35:29. > :35:32.about how terrible things were going to be if they did not form a
:35:32. > :35:37.government and have an austerity programme, and that has stuck with
:35:37. > :35:40.them. Now, it's said that to get the very
:35:40. > :35:43.best from This Week you need a healthy disregard for the BBC's
:35:43. > :35:45.taste and decency guidelines, no communication with the BBC
:35:45. > :35:51.Compliance Department and an unhealthy interest in Sally
:35:51. > :35:57.Bercow's battery-powered "little helper". And, of course, where
:35:57. > :36:01.would any of us be without a trusty pair of Blue Nun beer goggles? But
:36:01. > :36:04.for many of you, it seems those beer goggles now need to be tinted,
:36:04. > :36:09.following the latest "shirt watch" faux pas from a certain Mr Michael
:36:09. > :36:13.Portillo. And so with politics better known for its men in grey
:36:13. > :36:16.suits, than its men in Kermit the Frog green shirts, we decided to
:36:16. > :36:26.let it all hang out and put flamboyance in this week's
:36:26. > :36:38.
:36:38. > :36:42.The wild man of cinema, Ken Russell, will not only be remembered for his
:36:42. > :36:48.movie masterpieces but for his colourful character, which added to
:36:48. > :36:52.his creativity. But is there room in politics for firm --
:36:52. > :36:59.flamboyance? Speaker John Bercow is not afraid of being out there, with
:36:59. > :37:03.a coat of arms adorned with pink triangles and a rainbow pride flag.
:37:03. > :37:07.Sometimes live personalities can cause offence. With Jeremy
:37:07. > :37:11.Clarkson's criticism of public sector strikers causing a media
:37:11. > :37:16.frenzy. Frankly, I would have them or shot. I would take them outside
:37:16. > :37:19.and execute them in front of their families. How dare they go on
:37:19. > :37:24.strike? Some people become controversial targets just because
:37:24. > :37:30.of the way they look. Christopher Jefferies told Lord Leveson about
:37:30. > :37:39.the risks of being too different. had a distinctive appearance and it
:37:39. > :37:43.was as a result of the entire world, apparently, knowing what I looked
:37:43. > :37:48.like that it was suggested to me that really I ought to change my
:37:48. > :37:53.appearance. Maybe the British but - - prefers elegance to
:37:53. > :38:03.outrageousness. The British fashion Awards winners were suitably demure
:38:03. > :38:11.
:38:11. > :38:19.We are joined by Jody Marsh. Welcome back. Thanks. Do you see
:38:19. > :38:25.yourself as flamboyant? Yes, of course. That was easy! Do you think
:38:25. > :38:30.it is going out of fashion in these grim times? I think that we, as a
:38:30. > :38:36.nation, are quite reserved. And I think we are quite boring in some
:38:36. > :38:39.ways. You may be flamboyant but I guess the Brits are not really.
:38:39. > :38:48.That is what I am saying. We just saw fashion Week and they looked
:38:48. > :38:53.lovely and very classy and elegant, but for me there is no excitement.
:38:53. > :38:57.I think that is why people like Lady Gaga become so incredibly huge,
:38:57. > :39:04.because there is nobody else doing it like that. She is so interesting
:39:04. > :39:10.to look at, visually. Whether you like her or not, you look at her
:39:10. > :39:14.and you go, what? If a singer appears on the X Factor with a
:39:14. > :39:19.torso strapped to her left shoulder with no head on it, it is hard not
:39:19. > :39:24.to look at it. We were trying to work out if it was Simon Cowell's
:39:24. > :39:30.body! You think we should have more flamboyance in this country. Yes, I
:39:31. > :39:34.think it is a good thing. brightens it up. Exactly. Being
:39:34. > :39:44.different, being individual and not conforming to what people think is
:39:44. > :39:46.
:39:46. > :39:53.the norm. I have grown out of my a really flamboyant days. I am
:39:53. > :39:56.through it. I am officially an adult. It is not good to grow up.
:39:56. > :40:02.thought when I bought a house that it would make me an adult but it is
:40:02. > :40:07.actually when you stop wearing skimpy outfits. Is there room for
:40:07. > :40:11.flamboyance in politics any more? think there is a huge appetite for
:40:11. > :40:15.flamboyance generally. You have mentioned Lady Gaga, you can think
:40:15. > :40:20.of Elton John and Freddie Mercury, hugely flamboyant. I would say
:40:20. > :40:25.Margaret factor, in a funny way, was flamboyant. She stomped around
:40:25. > :40:29.and wore bright colours and she was exceptional. Obviously, she was
:40:29. > :40:34.pretty successful. You had to leave politics to become flamboyant. You
:40:34. > :40:39.would never have worn these shirts if you still had political ambition.
:40:39. > :40:43.I once wore a flowery tie as Secretary of State for Defence and
:40:43. > :40:46.Nicholas Soames, the minister of state and church will's grandson
:40:46. > :40:52.took me aside and said, the Secretary of State for Defence does
:40:52. > :40:57.not wear a tie like that. -- Winston Churchill's grandson.
:40:57. > :41:06.you think there is room for flamboyance? Who is flamboyant?
:41:06. > :41:09.They are a number of them on the Tory... Rees-Mogg is incredibly
:41:09. > :41:15.defined and nobody could overlook him or forget him. In politics,
:41:15. > :41:18.people want to know what you stand for. If you compare to going on the
:41:18. > :41:22.street in mainland Europe, the Brits are far more diverse. In
:41:22. > :41:30.mainland Europe, you know which season it is because everyone wears
:41:30. > :41:35.the same shoes and a new coat. In Britain, it is fantastic. That is
:41:35. > :41:40.not flamboyant but scruffy. There are not many flamboyant Germans,
:41:40. > :41:44.you know. Angela Merkel is not flamboyant, although Nicolas
:41:44. > :41:47.Sarkozy might be. I wonder whether in these lean times people will be
:41:47. > :41:52.dissuaded from being flamboyant, or whether they will like the
:41:52. > :41:56.entertainment value because it will make us feel less miserable.
:41:56. > :42:00.think, thanks to people like Lady Gaga, it is becoming slightly more
:42:00. > :42:06.acceptable to dress a little bit more outrageously, to be a bit
:42:06. > :42:11.different. But I do think, with being flamboyant, there does come a
:42:11. > :42:14.negative backlash, Hoffen. Because when you dare to be different and
:42:14. > :42:20.when you stand out from the crowd, that is when other people can be
:42:20. > :42:27.jealous, nasty, critical, often for no reason other than that they do
:42:27. > :42:32.not understand it. And we do like to put people down? Exactly. I
:42:32. > :42:36.certainly had it for years in the early days of my career. And on a
:42:36. > :42:40.serious note, I am very flamboyant, but all of the times that I went
:42:40. > :42:44.out wearing skimpy outfits, I did it for my career, because I knew I
:42:44. > :42:49.would make front pages and that meant more jobs and more money and
:42:49. > :42:53.a longer career. There was a method to it. I was not just doing it to
:42:53. > :43:01.get attention, it was to get on the front pages. The only flamboyant
:43:01. > :43:08.politician I can think of is Boris Johnson. Absolutely. He is not
:43:08. > :43:14.really his friend. He does not like him! It has taken Boris to the high
:43:14. > :43:20.position he prison the holds. That's your lot for tonight, folks.
:43:20. > :43:23.But not for us. Oh, no! Michael and I are treating Gisela and Jodie to
:43:23. > :43:25.a posh night out at Kebabylon on the Holloway Road. No expense
:43:25. > :43:30.spared. Apparently their oyster shawarmas with extra norovirus are
:43:30. > :43:32.going down a storm, and coming back up a treat! But we leave you with
:43:33. > :43:35.the most damning evidence yet heard at the Leveson Inquiry's
:43:35. > :43:45.investigation into the so-called feral media. Nighty-night, don't
:43:45. > :43:48.
:43:48. > :43:54.let our inflated sense of self- There is still excellent journalism
:43:54. > :43:58.in broadcasting, in TV and radio. The cat Panorama, or 24 hours, or