:00:13. > :00:16.. Welcome to This Week where all the magic happens, but the
:00:16. > :00:26.Government's work experience scheme is struggling to impress the
:00:26. > :00:27.
:00:27. > :00:31.audience, is it set to disappear in a puff of smoke? Michel Roux Jr
:00:31. > :00:39.thinks thinking that gets -- thinks getting anyone working is a start.
:00:39. > :00:43.Everyone has to start somewhere. It could be your chance so grab it!
:00:43. > :00:47.130 billion euro bail out agreed by the eurozone. Could it really be
:00:47. > :00:51.the magic bullet that the Greek economy needs? The Mirror's Kevin
:00:51. > :00:54.Maguire thinks it is just an I will illusion.
:00:54. > :01:03.The real fighting has started. Will the country be standing for the
:01:03. > :01:10.final round? I'm not so sure! And with the shock news that boxers
:01:10. > :01:16.have been caught fighting, Ben Cohen addresses the trick tricky
:01:16. > :01:22.issue of how rivalry can turn tricky.
:01:22. > :01:25.It will take more than a magic trick to make prejudice disappear
:01:25. > :01:30.in sport. Abracadabra it is This Week.
:01:30. > :01:36.Welcome to This Week. Where shall we start? Yes, anybody out there
:01:36. > :01:45.remember the Big Society? Call me Dave's big fat idea that turned
:01:45. > :01:54.into a big fat doo-doo. Fear not, community secretary, Eric Pickles
:01:54. > :02:00.thinks there is life in the old dog's dinner in the Big Launch. It
:02:00. > :02:06.is best served when we sit down with our neighbours and share our
:02:07. > :02:10.cottage meal for one. Indeed, food is never far from his
:02:10. > :02:20.thoughts. He saved weekly bin collection after claiming it was
:02:20. > :02:20.
:02:20. > :02:30.the right of every Englishman to have the remnants of their chicken
:02:30. > :02:31.
:02:31. > :02:37.tikka masala collected every seven days.
:02:37. > :02:45.Excuse us for feeling a little let down when we heart the salt of the
:02:45. > :02:53.Bradford earth, yes Mr Pickles, his favourite dish ain't roast beef or
:02:53. > :03:01.Yorkshire pudding. It is a fish stew.
:03:01. > :03:10.Who could have guessed that the Pickles was such a your roe
:03:10. > :03:17.friendly -- euro friendly food. I am joined by Michael Portillo and
:03:17. > :03:20.Jacqui Smith. Michael, your moment? Ah, well, today, bankers pay has
:03:20. > :03:23.been in the news and the normal justification is we have to pay
:03:23. > :03:29.high rates because of international competition, but as it happened
:03:29. > :03:32.last week, I was on the trading floor of a big German bank and the
:03:32. > :03:35.attitude in Germany is different. I mean there is a social attitude
:03:35. > :03:39.there shouldn't be too big a gap between the lowest paid and the
:03:39. > :03:42.highest paid in their society. So you don't find German bankers who
:03:42. > :03:46.are paid less than British bahrningers rushing to Britain to
:03:46. > :03:51.get paid more. The argument breaks down there and then an interesting
:03:51. > :03:56.thing was said to me me they said analysts are paid half as much as
:03:56. > :04:01.the analyst in London -- analysts in London. They do he he twice as
:04:01. > :04:05.much work in Frankfurt than in London. If the labour is cheaper,
:04:05. > :04:13.that attracts the work and the jobs to the place where the labour is
:04:13. > :04:19.cheaper and in the case of banking, the labour is cheaper in Frankfurt.
:04:19. > :04:26.It hasn't resulted in the banks flooding to Frankfurt.
:04:26. > :04:30.They won't pay the high rates. Jacqui Smith.
:04:30. > :04:35.Controversy on two fronts. First of all, interesting process wise
:04:35. > :04:38.because Vince Cable appointed him despite the fact that the House of
:04:38. > :04:42.Commons Business Committee refused to con confirm his appointment and
:04:42. > :04:45.despite the fact that we hear that fellow Conservative Cabinet
:04:45. > :04:49.colleagues didn't want him to be appointed. So that's interesting.
:04:49. > :04:56.But perhaps even more importantly from a policy point of view, he
:04:56. > :05:00.sounds robust. I hope he is. I hope he is going to hold to the fire,
:05:00. > :05:04.Higher Education Institutions who in order to get their �9,000 a year
:05:04. > :05:07.fees should be doing more than they are doing to widen access.
:05:07. > :05:13.We will be keeping an eye on him to see what happens.
:05:13. > :05:19.I had a sad sad moment this week. I heard when I got up that two Syrian
:05:19. > :05:23.journalist, two jurn journalists had been killed in Syria and I was
:05:23. > :05:28.in the car when I heard Marie Colvin was one of them along with a
:05:28. > :05:33.French photographer. Marie joined the Sunday Times when I was editor
:05:33. > :05:37.and became one of of our star correspondents. How typical it was
:05:37. > :05:40.of Marie that she had gone into a city, probably the most dangerous
:05:40. > :05:47.city in the world and she had gone in there because there was no
:05:47. > :05:51.independent reporting going on. We were Dependant on the rebel s or
:05:51. > :05:55.the Syrian authorities. She wanted to go there because she believed
:05:55. > :05:58.that independent reporting mattered and paid with her life for it. She
:05:58. > :06:03.was the best foreign correspondent of her generation.
:06:03. > :06:06.Everyone seems to have had the highest opinion of her.
:06:06. > :06:10.The Government's work experience scheme has been under pressure with
:06:10. > :06:20.the usual suspects claiming that kids working for welfare benefits
:06:20. > :06:21.
:06:21. > :06:26.is worst than slave labour. Despite call me Dave's thoughts on the plan,
:06:26. > :06:36.Tesco's have crumbled in the face of a Twitter campaign and changed
:06:36. > :06:50.
:06:50. > :06:54.their policy. We asked Michel Roux This is where I started my career
:06:54. > :06:58.as an apprentice, at the the kitchen sink, cleaning pots and
:06:58. > :07:06.pans for the first year. It taught me respect, but taught me that
:07:06. > :07:12.cooking starts with a clean pot and I wouldn't change that for anything.
:07:12. > :07:16.Kids these days want to be the next Gordon Ramsey, John McCain Jamie
:07:16. > :07:21.Oliver or me, but they want instant success and they want it on a plate
:07:21. > :07:26.now! Kids don't realise, that me, Gordan and Jamie got where we are
:07:26. > :07:36.by hard work. Hard slog. Kids don't want to stack shelves, a meanal
:07:36. > :07:38.
:07:38. > :07:42.task. They would rather be sat on benefits.
:07:42. > :07:47.Here, I take on dozen of students and apprentices from colleges, from
:07:47. > :07:54.France, Italy and the UK. Apprentices like Rosie, learning
:07:54. > :07:58.the tasks of cleaning pots and pans and chopping carrots.
:07:58. > :08:03.They work their socks off for two years and hopefully move on and
:08:03. > :08:08.become a success in their own right. For me, work experience is
:08:08. > :08:13.invaluable and that's what I always look for in a CV.
:08:13. > :08:16.It might not be perfect, but those criticising the Government's scheme
:08:16. > :08:21.are standing in the way of something good. It is not slave
:08:21. > :08:24.labour. People are getting life skills. They are getting experience.
:08:24. > :08:34.They are proving to the world that they want to do something with
:08:34. > :08:36.
:08:36. > :08:40.My message to youngsters is that money doesn't grow on trees.
:08:40. > :08:50.Whatever your background, if you want to do it, you can. Just go out
:08:50. > :08:54.
:08:54. > :08:58.there and do it. Even if it means Michel Roux Jr from his little
:08:58. > :09:03.kitchen in London. I will help you wash the dishes afterwards. Very
:09:03. > :09:06.kind of you. I can see why people would like to
:09:06. > :09:10.do work experience with you, they are going to get Michelin-starred
:09:10. > :09:15.training, but is that the same as stacking shelves in Tesco's?
:09:15. > :09:20.would say yes. I would say any work experience is invaluable and I look
:09:20. > :09:24.at a CV for example and the first thing I see is work experience and
:09:24. > :09:28.where they have been. I will take someone on if they haven't got any
:09:28. > :09:32.work, any experience in a kitchen, but if they can prove to me, that
:09:32. > :09:37.they have got off their back side and even if it is stacking shelves
:09:37. > :09:40.or being a paperboy, or anything like that, but it proves to me that
:09:41. > :09:44.they have got it. They want to do and they want to achieve in life.
:09:44. > :09:47.And that's what work experience, I think, is all about.
:09:47. > :09:53.Have people who have done work experience with you gone on to get
:09:53. > :09:57.full-time jobs? Most deaf most definitely, it it happens all the
:09:57. > :10:01.time. Have you given someone on work experience full employment
:10:01. > :10:06.afterwards? Absolutely and I have a kitchen full of them, well not at
:10:06. > :10:10.the moment, but it is not something that just happens. I think it is an
:10:10. > :10:13.attitude problem that bosses have got to change and when I say bosses,
:10:13. > :10:16.I don't mean the big Tesco's or Sainsbury's, the big companies,
:10:17. > :10:19.smaller companies and I do think think as well that's where the
:10:19. > :10:25.Government can help more, the smaller companies.
:10:25. > :10:28.They should be doing it as well, you think? I do, absolutely.
:10:29. > :10:33.What's the problem then this this country if there is one with young
:10:33. > :10:36.people? I mean, isn't the real issue a simple lack of jobs rather
:10:36. > :10:40.than a lack of application or is it a lack of application? We were
:10:40. > :10:44.talking before the programme began a lot of jobs have been created in
:10:44. > :10:48.this country, but so many of them have gone to hard-working
:10:48. > :10:54.immigrants who do have the attitude? Yes and it is an attitude
:10:54. > :10:59.problem. I believe that. And why should these jobs go to immigrants
:10:59. > :11:03.when there is a workforce, a British workforce there that needs
:11:03. > :11:09.possibly to be re-educated in simple life skills and the life
:11:09. > :11:12.skills mean getting off your back side and into a job even if it is
:11:12. > :11:18.not your first choice of a job, but proving that you can do something.
:11:18. > :11:22.So even in a time of high unemployment you think that an
:11:22. > :11:25.attitude problem is keeping young British people out of jobs? Not all
:11:25. > :11:29.of them. That would be a blanket... I didn't mean all, but some.
:11:29. > :11:33.A certain amount of this em, yes definitely.
:11:33. > :11:36.What do you make of that? I think the Government is right with their
:11:36. > :11:41.scheme. The trouble is with it, and I think you were getting to this,
:11:41. > :11:44.Andrew, you describe this as being the first rung on the ladder. The
:11:44. > :11:47.trouble for young people, there aren't the other other rungs after
:11:47. > :11:52.you have done your work experience. This week, we had Nick Clegg
:11:52. > :11:56.announcing a relatively small scheme for people who weren't in
:11:57. > :12:01.employment or education and he described youth unemployment as a
:12:01. > :12:07.ticking timebomb, if it is a ticking timebomb Nick, how come you
:12:07. > :12:12.have let it tick for the last 18 months after having done away with
:12:12. > :12:18.the Future Jobs Fund? You are shaking your head, Michael? I am. I
:12:18. > :12:22.don't know where this idea comes, one tenth of Americans, their first
:12:22. > :12:25.job in life is flipping a hamburger and some of the great hamburger
:12:25. > :12:31.chains give you a star for every skill you acquire. When you have
:12:31. > :12:35.learned to wash up, you get a star and when you have learned to Flynn
:12:35. > :12:39.the hamburger, you get another star, when you learn to serve a customer,
:12:39. > :12:43.you get another star. They have hamburger universities, the kind of
:12:43. > :12:47.things we sneer at, but that's taking people on to the next level
:12:47. > :12:51.about how you run the company and get experience in in dealing with
:12:51. > :12:54.bigger issues of customer service. This is the way it has to go, but
:12:54. > :12:57.people have to start and they have to be willing to go things at the
:12:57. > :13:02.bottom. Isn't there the concern if this
:13:02. > :13:07.becomes widespread, you end up supplying free labour to very
:13:07. > :13:16.profitable companies? Well, we are in lard times and I
:13:16. > :13:21.believe -- hard times and I believe what Michel has said. It is about
:13:21. > :13:25.what you are being given and the gift of training and of skill and
:13:25. > :13:27.of the first foot on the rung of the ladder, that's worth more than
:13:27. > :13:32.the pay. It is a sense of achievement as
:13:32. > :13:36.well. That work experience, as a youngster, you have done your bit,
:13:36. > :13:39.your two weeks, four weeks, whatever the time is, but it is a
:13:39. > :13:45.huge sense of achievement and with that, I think, you can go forward
:13:45. > :13:48.and go on to that next rung which is maybe a full-time job.
:13:48. > :13:52.But if it becomes too widespread, wouldn't there be a danger with so
:13:52. > :13:56.many kids on work experience, it means that companies don't have to
:13:56. > :14:01.create full-time jobs at the unskilled end on proper salaries?
:14:01. > :14:05.Work experience is never going to take over from full-time employment.
:14:05. > :14:10.That's for sure. I'm not going to overnight suddenly fill my kitchens
:14:10. > :14:14.with work experience, no because they don't have the qualify kationz,
:14:14. > :14:17.they -- qualifications, they don't have the skills. You need full-time
:14:17. > :14:21.employees? Absolutely. There is something to be said about
:14:21. > :14:25.getting the work habit. If you don't get it when you are young, if
:14:25. > :14:30.you don't get up in the morning, if you don't get dressed, if you don't
:14:30. > :14:35.meet other people, you only get a job by meeting other people? That's
:14:35. > :14:41.why I'm saying, I support the idea of work experience and and Michael,
:14:41. > :14:47.I am not snooty about what sort of work... You are not a job snob.
:14:47. > :14:51.There is argue argue There is arrogance if you work at Tesco's,
:14:51. > :14:56.that's below people. Once you have done your work experience, you have
:14:56. > :15:00.got the opportunity to go on from that, to a proper, paid job, after
:15:00. > :15:04.a relatively short period of work experience and my argument is today
:15:04. > :15:08.when we have seen figures that show big increases in young people
:15:08. > :15:12.without education or a job, or training, when we have seen youth
:15:12. > :15:16.unemployment going up, the real problem is, is there a job there
:15:16. > :15:20.once you have got the skills and done your work experience?
:15:20. > :15:22.Otherwise all you are doing is you are giving people false hope. This
:15:22. > :15:32.Government has done away with a lot of the programmes that would have
:15:32. > :15:35.
:15:35. > :15:39.Youth unemployment rose under your Government too, even at a time when
:15:39. > :15:49.jobs were generally booming, it rose? It's been a problem for some
:15:49. > :15:52.time, it's getting worse at the moment. Jacqui's broadly on side.
:15:52. > :15:55.The Government's tried to do it, we have been given the case for it.
:15:55. > :16:00.The opinion polls suggest the public are in favour of this sort
:16:00. > :16:03.of thing, yet it's turned out to be a PR disaster for the Government?
:16:03. > :16:06.I'm not convinced about that. We still have a majority of working
:16:06. > :16:11.people in the country and the majority of working people think
:16:11. > :16:15.that there is a problem of youth disengagement from the labour
:16:15. > :16:20.market and want to see kids knuckling down and getting that
:16:21. > :16:24.first job. Whatever may be the ups and downs of this particular scheme,
:16:24. > :16:28.the general philosophy is still very popular. The Government as
:16:28. > :16:32.well, instead of saying this is a good opportunity, you should take
:16:32. > :16:36.it, they've made much of the sanctions and playing the touch
:16:36. > :16:41.angle. That I think is what has worried people about it. But there
:16:41. > :16:46.has to be a bit of tough there. It's tough love and, come on, kids,
:16:46. > :16:52.they do need a kick up the backside every now and then. It doesn't hurt.
:16:52. > :16:56.They need discipline and they need to to to work on time! I'm quite
:16:56. > :17:02.happen Foy kick my own kids up the backside, I kick my youngest out to
:17:02. > :17:07.do his paper rounds most mornings... You're a good mum jiefplt but I
:17:07. > :17:11.wouldn't be happy in ten years' time if he didn't have a job.
:17:12. > :17:15.he's done the paper round he's up the chimney cleaning that as well.
:17:15. > :17:20.Do you think there is a job snobbury in this country? There was
:17:20. > :17:25.about being a waiter in British restaurants or a cook or so on, it
:17:25. > :17:29.was seen as that's not what we do, now they are some of the best paid
:17:29. > :17:34.jobs? I agree that it still does exist this job snobbury, I'm too
:17:34. > :17:38.good to stack shelves, I'm too good to be a waiter, for example, and
:17:38. > :17:44.we've got to get rid of that, we must get rid of it. People can take
:17:44. > :17:47.pride in waiting and I think people could take pride as well in
:17:47. > :17:51.stacking shelves. I always observe that it's rare in England to meat
:17:51. > :17:57.an English waiter, whereas in Spain, every waiter is Spanish, in Spain
:17:57. > :18:04.it's seen as a profession, I don't know why it isn't here. In France
:18:04. > :18:08.as well. Michelle Roux, thank you to you. It's late, very late. Far
:18:08. > :18:12.too late to save Andrew Lansley's reputation or the Commons fig trees,
:18:12. > :18:16.but not too late to pour yourself another pint of the blue stuff.
:18:17. > :18:24.Coming up, former Rugby Union star and anti-hope folkic captainer Ben
:18:24. > :18:28.Cohen will be talking about the pearls of bitter rivalry -- anti-
:18:28. > :18:33.homophobic. If bitterness and recrimination with your thing,
:18:33. > :18:38.which we can attest to that they really are, you already follow us
:18:38. > :18:42.on the Twitter, the Facebook and the interweb, formally known as the
:18:42. > :18:50.Al Gore superhighway to nowhere. Tempers have been fraying in
:18:50. > :19:00.Westminster this week even though MPs j just returned. My learned
:19:00. > :19:08.friends insist that Eric Joyce has been charged tonight over a "hm hm"
:19:08. > :19:13.disturbance in a bar following allegations of an altercation. You
:19:13. > :19:18.are lucky Diane wasn't in the room. She knows how to pack a punch. We
:19:18. > :19:28.have asked our very own tough man, Kevin Maguire, to don his boxing
:19:28. > :19:32.gloves and give us his round-up of the political week.
:19:32. > :19:38.Boxers have suffer add beating in the British Press this week, but
:19:38. > :19:48.don't worry, Kevin, "The Hack" Maguire is here and ready to
:19:48. > :19:53.
:19:53. > :19:57.Politicians have started scrapping ahead of next month's budget title
:19:57. > :20:02.fight. About over what the Chancellor should do to prop up
:20:02. > :20:07.squeezed middle weights, a couple of former champs re-etred the ring.
:20:07. > :20:17.In the blue corner lame Thatcher boy wants tax cuts on businesses,
:20:17. > :20:18.
:20:18. > :20:23.and in the yellow corner, David "Expenses" law Laws got in a jab of
:20:23. > :20:30.his own. If we can decrease the income tax threshold, that gives us
:20:30. > :20:35.the opportunity of ending the austerity in household budgets.
:20:35. > :20:42.Nice footwork from Laws. He's no feather weight in the Lib Dem camp,
:20:42. > :20:51.he's still sponging down Nick "Clogger" Clegg and he's a real Lib
:20:51. > :20:56.Dem, one that is listened to. So George "Cruncher" Osborne might
:20:56. > :21:00.heed his advice. There was no ducking and diving for Andrew "Dead
:21:00. > :21:03.Man Walking" Lansley. He's had a bruising week. On his way to a
:21:03. > :21:07.Downing Street exhibition fight where doctors, nurses and midwives
:21:07. > :21:17.were foolishly banned from the ringside, the Health Secretary was
:21:17. > :21:18.
:21:18. > :21:23.Duffed up by an old lady. Excuse me, I've got to get in there. I promise
:21:23. > :21:30.you, waiting times in the NHS have gone down. It will not go private.
:21:30. > :21:33.I've had enough of you, I've had enough of you and Cameron. I'm very
:21:33. > :21:36.sorry you say that. The NHS is not for sale, there's no
:21:36. > :21:42.privatisation... Lansley tried to show that he is a fighter, not a
:21:42. > :21:51.quitter. And he might be down, but he's not out with a defiant snarl
:21:51. > :21:54.of his owns. Sticks and stones et cetera. Ed "Don't Call Me David"
:21:54. > :22:02.Miliband got Lansley with an upper cut. The Health Secretary should be
:22:02. > :22:08.quiet and listen to the people who work in the Health Service.
:22:08. > :22:12.If he'd done some listening before... He should calm down, Mr
:22:12. > :22:17.Speaker, he should calm down. Let's finish him off with a quick
:22:17. > :22:26.one - two. Lot me say to the Health Secretary, I don't think the Prime
:22:26. > :22:29.Minister wants advice from him. many fists are flying. The
:22:29. > :22:33.spectators must be confused, but the Prime Minister's certainly on
:22:33. > :22:38.the back foot, Labour and Liberal Democrat pueg lists in the
:22:38. > :22:46.coalition are sensing a potential knockout.
:22:46. > :22:52.Picked up off the floor again was Greece, the prize, a second bail
:22:52. > :23:00.out this time 130 billion Europes. The good European Cameron put on a
:23:00. > :23:06.brave face. Greece has made its choice and we now have to focus on
:23:06. > :23:09.the next step which is constructing a firewall that is large enough to
:23:09. > :23:13.prevent contagion within the eurozone. The real fighting in
:23:13. > :23:19.which people were killed, including Sunday Times journalist Marie
:23:19. > :23:24.Colvin, was in Syria,. The Government made a statement. I want
:23:24. > :23:26.us to tighten an economic and diplomatic stranglehold on the
:23:26. > :23:30.Assad regime, I want the countries mooting in Tunisia tomorrow to
:23:30. > :23:40.agree together what we are going to do to increase the pressure on that
:23:40. > :23:40.
:23:40. > :23:47.regime to stop this killing. On the ropes was treez Da "Kitten
:23:47. > :23:51.Heels" May. She struck back -- Theresa. The report reveals a
:23:51. > :23:56.border force that suspended important checks without per motion,
:23:56. > :24:01.spent millions on technologies but chose not to use them -- permission.
:24:01. > :24:11.It sent reports to ministers that were inaccurate, unbalanced and
:24:11. > :24:23.
:24:23. > :24:28.Will divide and rule conquer the problem? I'm not so sure. Can I
:24:28. > :24:35.have some water over here? I know there's a drought coming, but I
:24:35. > :24:38.might pass out. Oh that,'s better, I'm back in the ring. Take it a
:24:38. > :24:43.right kicking was the Government's flagship jobs programme for young
:24:43. > :24:51.people. What was billed as work experience was attacked as slave
:24:51. > :24:56.labour, a charge Nick "Clogger" Clegg denied. It's not slave labour,
:24:56. > :24:59.it's entirely voluntary. What the scheme is is very simple. We say to
:24:59. > :25:03.employers, take on the young people, we'll pay them, the Government will
:25:03. > :25:10.pay them through benefits but please keep them on for a few weeks
:25:10. > :25:18.because it increases their chance of then finding work.
:25:18. > :25:22.So it was another gruelling week in Westminster. Queensbury rules, not
:25:22. > :25:30.for Eric Joyce in the bar, I'm going to hang up my Governor F
:25:30. > :25:35.gloves and do something safer. I say, anybody here play polo?
:25:35. > :25:40.-- hang up my gloves. He's probably seeing stars after
:25:40. > :25:44.that little outing! In a years' time, what's more likely, finding
:25:44. > :25:51.Lord Lucan or Greek membership of the eurozone?
:25:51. > :25:56.I think... Well, Lord Lucan is dead... Just a joke. Just a joke.
:25:56. > :26:00.I... A bit slow on the uptake? guess probably Greece will be out
:26:00. > :26:04.of euro. You think, yes? Probably. I don't think it's absolutely
:26:04. > :26:07.certain, but what is to be absolutely certain is that the
:26:07. > :26:11.policies being pursued by the graeck government under duress from
:26:11. > :26:16.the European Union stand absolutely no chance of leading the graeck
:26:16. > :26:22.economy to recovery, that's what I'm sure about -- Greek government.
:26:22. > :26:27.In ancient Greek, a lot of contact with reality or an over estimation
:26:27. > :26:30.of one's capability - discuss? is the Stour of the euro!
:26:30. > :26:35.interesting thing about the Greek situation is that there does seem
:26:35. > :26:40.to be a willingness to make short- term arrangements to keep them
:26:40. > :26:44.within the euro. Now, there's no doubt, it seems to me, the
:26:44. > :26:50.agreement reached this week is about actually getting them passed
:26:50. > :26:57.March, getting them passed the next period. But the idea that by 2020
:26:57. > :27:00.they'll be able to reduce their share of debt as GDP from 160 to
:27:00. > :27:06.120% is wholly unrealistic. report the eurozone ministers were
:27:06. > :27:12.given by the imMF and the eurozone secretariat said that it wouldn't -
:27:12. > :27:17.- IMF. There's a terrible cliche of kicking the can down the road, but
:27:17. > :27:19.that seems to be what they've done? Yes. And there's been a big change
:27:20. > :27:23.of attitude since November until now because the United position of
:27:23. > :27:27.the European Union in November was that it was unthinkable that Greece
:27:27. > :27:31.should leave. The position is now much more divided. Quite a lot of
:27:31. > :27:36.ministers within the eurozone now think that the more affordable
:27:36. > :27:39.option is that Greece should leave. Is it not remarkable how the Greek
:27:39. > :27:44.- I know there have been demonstrations and buildings on
:27:44. > :27:47.fire - is it still remarkable how the Greek people are putting up
:27:47. > :27:52.with this? They've lost almost 20prgs of their economy before the
:27:52. > :27:58.minimum wage is to be slashed by 20%, pensions slashed more, 150,000
:27:58. > :28:01.public sck for jobs to go in a country of only 10 million people -
:28:01. > :28:04.- public sector jobs. You would think there would be revolution by
:28:04. > :28:09.now? And people have almost responded with almost a desperation,
:28:09. > :28:13.a quiet desperation. When you hear teachers and others talk about the
:28:13. > :28:16.situation they find themselves in, you think, you know, we may have a
:28:16. > :28:20.squeezed middle in the UK, people may be finding it tough, but what
:28:20. > :28:24.people are having to go through in Greece is really unbelievable.
:28:24. > :28:28.There has been a change of Government but not a change of
:28:28. > :28:34.Government brought about through a democratic uprising. I think they
:28:34. > :28:38.are being stoical, which is another Greek word. Yes. But when you are
:28:38. > :28:45.faced with the inevitable, this is what you have to do. It's a
:28:45. > :28:51.terrible time in Greece, but even for them, nowhere is as terrible as
:28:51. > :28:55.in Syria. Marie Colvin's death and the French photographer, another
:28:55. > :28:58.British photographer seriously ill, we have not managed to get him out
:28:58. > :29:03.and another woman, not managed to get her out I don't think either.
:29:03. > :29:07.Does this have an impact on the international community more than
:29:07. > :29:11.the death of ordinary nameless Syrians does? Well, in a way it
:29:11. > :29:16.does and in a way of course it shouldn't because thousands of
:29:16. > :29:20.Syrians have died. Obviously it's been in the news but it hasn't
:29:20. > :29:26.perhaps had the sense of urgency for us in Britain until now with
:29:26. > :29:29.the death of Marie Colvin and the other deaths and injuries. The
:29:29. > :29:33.international community still seems to me to be very short of options.
:29:33. > :29:37.As long as there is the Russian veto, and there's no sign of that
:29:37. > :29:42.changing, we are very short of options. I can't see a full
:29:42. > :29:48.military intervention. No. I could see us moving to a no-fly zone.
:29:48. > :29:52.Interesting though, I listened to the Government ministers being
:29:52. > :30:01.questioned by people who were totally opposed to Iraq but saying
:30:01. > :30:05.why are you not doing more about It is difficult. I think Michael is
:30:05. > :30:10.right. It is hard to see what the right arroach would be. The context
:30:10. > :30:13.in which the questions are asked is a reasonable amount of success for
:30:13. > :30:20.French and British foreign policy in terms of the way they responded
:30:20. > :30:29.in Libya and I think people in a simp Policic way, ask if it can
:30:29. > :30:33.happen in Libya, why can't it happen in Syria?
:30:33. > :30:37.That is what is in in people's people's minds when they are
:30:37. > :30:42.questioning why more can't be done. Let's come back to domestic matters,
:30:42. > :30:48.the Health Service. The coalition, particularly the Tory strategy was
:30:48. > :30:54.to put it on the back burner. It dominates the headlines. It
:30:54. > :30:59.dominated Prime Minister's Questions and Andrew Andrew Andrew
:30:59. > :31:04.Lansley having trouble in his entry to Downing Street. Is David Cameron
:31:04. > :31:07.wise to stick with him? It would be worse to let him and worse to let
:31:07. > :31:10.the legislation go. It is true it is a big matter in Parliament and
:31:10. > :31:14.it is true that the Health Service matters to people, but I'm
:31:14. > :31:19.wondering, these health pro forms are so confusing which is a very
:31:19. > :31:23.big argument against them, but they are so immensely confusing that I'm
:31:24. > :31:28.not sure that people quite have the sense of danger that Ed Miliband
:31:28. > :31:32.hopes that they will have. Labour is trying to paint it as
:31:32. > :31:36.this Government's poll tax, but the poll tax was an easy thing to
:31:36. > :31:41.understand and if you were against t easy to find reasons to be
:31:41. > :31:48.against it. This is more, I'm sure most of the House of Commons don't
:31:48. > :31:52.know what reforms mean. Except that, of course, David Cameron wanted and
:31:52. > :31:57.succeeded to detoxify the Tory brand with respect to the Tory
:31:57. > :32:02.brand. The problem for him now is when waiting starts going up, when
:32:02. > :32:07.it takes longer, accident and emergency units are missing their
:32:07. > :32:12.targets for seeing people within four hours, although it isn't
:32:12. > :32:16.because of the of the Bill... will get the blame.
:32:16. > :32:18.People will blame the Tories and the Government and it will be
:32:18. > :32:23.difficult. Could it be the coalition's poll
:32:23. > :32:30.tax? No, for the reason you have given. The poll tax was a per
:32:30. > :32:34.perfect storm because every single person in the country paid T
:32:34. > :32:38.everyone was affected. Most people, most of the time, don't use the
:32:38. > :32:43.Health Service. On the Budget, we have had David
:32:43. > :32:49.Laws coming in saying the same thing as Nick Clegg. This huge push
:32:49. > :32:54.to get everybody out of tax for the first �10,000. Do we think that's
:32:54. > :33:01.going to be in the Budget? I think something like it will be
:33:01. > :33:06.there. I don't... The full �10,000? I don't think this conversation
:33:06. > :33:10.will be going on in public, unless George Osborne thought he could get
:33:10. > :33:14.a long way towards it. Ed Balls said he would prefer a cut
:33:15. > :33:18.in VAT, but if you can't have that, he will go with this. The
:33:18. > :33:22.difference is he would borrow to pay for it? He identified the
:33:22. > :33:25.problem being a lack of demand and a lack of confidence and therefore,
:33:25. > :33:29.argued yes, you know, bringing VAT back down again would be the most
:33:29. > :33:33.effective way of doing it, but I have got no doubt thea recognises -
:33:33. > :33:36.- that he recognises the need longer term, not to close off doors
:33:36. > :33:39.to Liberal Democrats, and has been willing to say, "If there are other
:33:39. > :33:44.ways of doing t for example, increasing the personal allowance,
:33:44. > :33:47.that's something to be considered." But that is not as progressive as
:33:47. > :33:51.the Liberal Democrats like to describe it. It is of more benefit
:33:51. > :33:55.to people on higher incomes and if you don't earn at all, you don't
:33:55. > :33:59.gain from it. This is finally. Theresa May said
:33:59. > :34:04.that the downgrading of the immigration controls began in 2007.
:34:04. > :34:10.I believe that was when you took over the Home Office? It is your
:34:10. > :34:15.fault? And if you read John Vine's report, in 2007 we strengthen the
:34:15. > :34:20.requirement to check people against the warnings index. A lot of that
:34:20. > :34:23.didn't happen. There were 350 times between 2007
:34:23. > :34:28.and 2010 when it didn't happen for the reasons we have heard about,
:34:28. > :34:32.but that report clearly shows that the biggest impacts were under this
:34:32. > :34:36.Government and just today we learn that in the last year, fewer people
:34:36. > :34:40.are being detained and caught at the border. Fewer people are being
:34:40. > :34:44.caught and deported and fewer foreign prisoners are deported.
:34:45. > :34:47.There were problems, but there were improvements happening and it is
:34:47. > :34:54.worse now. When it comes to our competition,
:34:54. > :35:02.we have met our match! What if Newsnight won some Mickey Mouse
:35:02. > :35:12.awards last night. Big deal if the Today programme had an exclusive
:35:12. > :35:13.
:35:13. > :35:18.with William Hague? Who cares if Loose Women blocked New kids on the
:35:18. > :35:28.block. That's why we have decided to put aside our envy and put
:35:28. > :35:36.
:35:36. > :35:39.Hopefully, rivalry of the best kind will be on display this week and
:35:39. > :35:49.when the Six Nations take to the field and try their hardest to stay
:35:49. > :35:54.within the rules. Old firm passions can be sometimes hard to fath
:35:54. > :35:59.fathom. Why are you not fighting me now?
:35:59. > :36:05.You want to tell me in my face. Tell me in my face.
:36:05. > :36:10.Boxers have always this this thrived on a sense of over hyped
:36:10. > :36:14.animosity. This week, we saw the down side of taking the hatreds a
:36:14. > :36:20.punch too far. Downing Street was forced to hold a
:36:20. > :36:25.summit on racism and home phobia in football which is stoked by bitter
:36:25. > :36:28.terrorist rivalries. This is important for the football.
:36:28. > :36:31.There are so many footballers who are role models for young people in
:36:31. > :36:35.our country, we want to make sure football is about a power to do
:36:35. > :36:41.good rather than anything else. Maybe it is a good job that
:36:41. > :36:46.politics isn't a contact sport unless you are Eric Joyce,
:36:46. > :36:53.otherwise we might be tempted to lock them up rather than lap them
:36:53. > :36:59.Ben Cohen welcome to the programme. Thank you.
:36:59. > :37:03.Do you need a bitter rivalry to bring out the very best in you as a
:37:03. > :37:07.professional sports person? Well, you need competition. You need some
:37:07. > :37:10.sort of rivalry, to bring the best out in you, you know, whether it is
:37:10. > :37:12.competition for your club or international, keeping your
:37:12. > :37:17.international spot. You need some rivalry.
:37:17. > :37:23.Was it different depending on who you played? Did you step up a gear
:37:23. > :37:28.when you were playing the Welsh? Or the Scots? To be honest with you,
:37:28. > :37:33.whenever you put on the white shirt, you generally want to perform 10%
:37:33. > :37:37.more than you probably would. There is some teams you play there
:37:37. > :37:42.is more rivalry, playing Scotland at Murrayfield is a bit different
:37:42. > :37:46.to playing Italy in Rome? They have different challenges. There is
:37:46. > :37:50.different challenges. One, if you are playing Scotland, there is a
:37:50. > :37:54.rivalry there, of course, whenever we play the Celtic nations there is
:37:54. > :37:58.a rivalry against England. You see these countries that raise their
:37:58. > :38:01.game by 10% and you know, we probably do as well. There is that
:38:01. > :38:04.rivalry there. But when you play against the Italians, it is a
:38:04. > :38:09.different passion that they have and... And they are getting better?
:38:09. > :38:17.They are getting better. You don't want to get shown up by someone who
:38:17. > :38:20.might not be as good as you, William or Gareth Thomas are world-
:38:20. > :38:23.class players and they can do things that will make you look
:38:23. > :38:28.silly on the pitch. What about rivalry with your own
:38:28. > :38:34.team-mates? Deaf lit any. You get more injuries and more rivalry
:38:34. > :38:37.within a team to get that start in Jersey at the weekend. You need
:38:37. > :38:44.that competition within clubs because more healthy competition,
:38:44. > :38:48.you are going to climb the league. You want people who want to play
:38:48. > :38:53.for their country. They want to strive to be world-class people. If
:38:53. > :38:56.they have got that in the teamks and people are fighting for their
:38:56. > :39:00.positions, they will bring the best out in their team.
:39:00. > :39:05.All that is healthy and it makes for a better sport and better teams
:39:05. > :39:13.and better games for the spectators to watch. It has a dark side when
:39:13. > :39:18.that kind of, when a bitter rivalry uses ratism and hom and homophobia
:39:18. > :39:22.to underline that rivalry? It is sad to see. It happens? It does
:39:22. > :39:26.happen. I have to say that a rugby crowd is different to a football
:39:26. > :39:31.crowd and maybe very different, a football crowd will be different in
:39:31. > :39:35.Europe than in the UK, but it does happen, yeah. It is sad to see that.
:39:35. > :39:43.David Cameron said there, you woe no sportsmen are role models and
:39:43. > :39:46.they really do young players and The Next Generation really want to
:39:46. > :39:53.emulate sportsmen, especially footballers. They have got a huge
:39:53. > :39:56.role to play within their local community and probably worldwide,
:39:56. > :39:58.global rock stars really in the sports world.
:39:58. > :40:01.Surely, it is an international brand.
:40:01. > :40:05.Exactly. Clearly the sporting authorities
:40:05. > :40:07.and the teams have to do all they can and more to sort this out. Is
:40:08. > :40:14.the Government right to get involved? Can the Government help?
:40:14. > :40:19.I think so. I think so. They need to attack it - they did a great job
:40:19. > :40:24.in racism in sport and espitionally in -- especially in football.
:40:24. > :40:29.You think it has got better? They attacked it from grass-roots level
:40:29. > :40:39.and they came in from the top. The FA backed it and they attacked it
:40:39. > :40:39.
:40:39. > :40:42.from both angles. They really squashed it and really contained it.
:40:42. > :40:48.As I said before, sportsmen and women across the world really have
:40:48. > :40:52.a role to play and they do, a lot of sportsmen and women, really let
:40:52. > :40:55.that part of their performance down. We know the top sports brands in
:40:55. > :40:59.the world are really looking at personal endorsement contracts so
:40:59. > :41:03.they can hold them accountable because they know that there is a
:41:03. > :41:07.direct impact to, you know, what the players are doing to the next
:41:07. > :41:11.generation or current generation. Is the Government right to get
:41:11. > :41:15.involved? I think so. It is an issue that goes beyond football or
:41:15. > :41:19.beyond rugby or the sport that it is in and particularly in football,
:41:19. > :41:23.some of the recent racism incidents I think suggest that we've gone
:41:23. > :41:27.backwards. The other thing is that Government likes to be associated
:41:27. > :41:30.for positive reasons with that type of role model that sportsmen can
:41:30. > :41:33.bring. When I was Home Secretary, I was grateful to have members of the
:41:33. > :41:37.England football team work with us on trying to prevent people
:41:38. > :41:43.carrying knives. There is no doubt that young people are more likely
:41:43. > :41:52.to listen to David Beckham or or Rio Ferdinand than to me.
:41:52. > :41:58.I am backing a campaign with the Home Office, and we know home
:41:58. > :42:05.phobia is the last fob phobia to be kicked -- phobia to be kicked into
:42:05. > :42:11.touch. But we have a long way to go and by getting top sports men and
:42:11. > :42:16.PMs or Royals to back that within schools, we can really educate the
:42:16. > :42:20.children of what homophobic slurs mean and do to youngsters.
:42:20. > :42:25.Michael, what's your view on this? The Government is right to be
:42:25. > :42:30.involved. I don't think there is a great deal the Government can do. I
:42:30. > :42:35.think hard work has been done within the sports and that's where
:42:35. > :42:39.the hard work has to be done and Ben has done a lot of. It. There is
:42:39. > :42:44.a problem with racism and we have seen the incidents, but in a way
:42:44. > :42:48.homophobia is worse than racism in football, isn't it? It is something
:42:48. > :42:52.that is about and something that hasn't been touched on in the years
:42:52. > :42:57.before, but it is becoming more prominent. We know that what
:42:57. > :43:01.bullying does. Anyone who is perceived to be different gets
:43:01. > :43:06.bullied and whether that be homophobia or racism or it could be
:43:06. > :43:10.the colour of their hair or size. There is a lot of work to do.
:43:10. > :43:15.There is a lot of work and we're glad that you're doing it.
:43:15. > :43:19.That's your lot for tonight. I would like to leave tonight by
:43:19. > :43:29.saying thank you so much. Nothing makes me prouder than coming home
:43:29. > :43:30.
:43:30. > :43:33.with six BAFTAs and coming to the RTS Awards and winning. I am proud
:43:33. > :43:37.to be in a room with all of you here tonight!
:43:37. > :43:47.Andrew, I am sorry, I am going to have to cut you off. I am sorry to
:43:47. > :43:47.