:00:10. > :00:20.Tonight, join This Week for the Great Political Bake-Off. A week at
:00:20. > :00:24.Westminster dominated by tasty pastry and kitchen suppers. I am a
:00:24. > :00:27.pasty eat her myself. Why go to Cornwall and I love a hot pasty. I
:00:27. > :00:30.think the last one I bought was from the west Cornwall pasty
:00:30. > :00:39.company. The BBC's baker-in-chief, John
:00:39. > :00:43.Pienaar, has been eating all the pies. This is my last one. It has
:00:43. > :00:45.been a bit of a pie fight at Westminster, but this time the mess
:00:46. > :00:49.could stick. Maybe kids should stay at home
:00:49. > :00:51.baking with mother rather than rampaging on the streets, but after
:00:51. > :01:01.a critical report into last summer's riots, celebrity charity
:01:01. > :01:06.chief Camilla Batmanghelidjh thinks we should stop blaming young people.
:01:06. > :01:10.Stop this child bashing. It's time to end the war against our children.
:01:10. > :01:12.And we all like drooling over a good looking cake, but do looks
:01:12. > :01:21.really matter more than flavour? Singer-songwriter Katie Melua
:01:21. > :01:25.thinks first impressions can often be wrong. I like surprises, but I
:01:25. > :01:27.don't like it when there is too much potato in my pasty.
:01:27. > :01:35.Elasticate those waistbands, rolling pins at the ready.
:01:35. > :01:40.Evenin' all. Welcome to Steak Bake! And what a week it's been for puns
:01:40. > :01:46.involving zero-rated bakery products. Mmm! Zero-rated bakery
:01:46. > :01:48.products. Yes, apologies. Our scripts tonight are as predictable
:01:48. > :01:52.as a Tory fundraiser selling kitchen suppers in Downing Street
:01:53. > :01:57.to the highest bidder. But how could we resist the smell of a
:01:57. > :02:01.freshly baked fiasco? Pasty-faced Boy George got the sausage rolling
:02:01. > :02:03.by sniffing that he wouldn't be seen dead eating a pasty with the
:02:04. > :02:06.oiks down at Greggs. Call-me-Dave quickly realised his Tory de-
:02:06. > :02:09.toxification strategy was looking like a re-toxification strategy,
:02:09. > :02:17.and embarked on an emergency pleb- ification strategy, claiming he was
:02:17. > :02:23."totally down with the pasties, OK, yah". And that he had even bought
:02:23. > :02:28.one once, in a faraway place called Leeds, or was it Liverpool? Hard to
:02:28. > :02:32.tell the difference from Chipping Norton. But at least he remembered
:02:32. > :02:36.the name of the pasty shop, until it turned out it had closed years
:02:36. > :02:39.ago. The crack Shadow Cabinet Team woke up from their slumbers and
:02:39. > :02:42.smelled a photo opportunity and the Ed Mili-bandwagon duly rolled into
:02:42. > :02:50.the Redditch branch of Greggs, proving to everyone just how down
:02:50. > :02:53.on their luck Labour really are. Then, as if things weren't surreal
:02:53. > :02:56.enough, the Minister for U-turns, Francis Maude, caused panic on the
:02:56. > :02:59.streets of Padstow, declaring a national pasty shortage, calling on
:02:59. > :03:03.people to top-up their reserves, storing them safely, in a jerry can
:03:03. > :03:06.- that'll fool the VATman - in the double garage before a tax-hike
:03:06. > :03:14.robs the proles of their last remaining pleasure, fags having
:03:14. > :03:20.already been priced out of their reach. No wonder Theresa May once
:03:21. > :03:24.called the Tories the nasty pasty party. Speaking of those who don't
:03:24. > :03:27.know their flaky from their short crust, I'm joined on the sofa
:03:27. > :03:30.tonight by two of life's lotus eaters, the Marie Antoinette and
:03:30. > :03:40.sun king of late night chat. I speak, of course, of
:03:40. > :03:41.
:03:41. > :03:44.#sadmanonatrain Michael Portillo and #manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson.
:03:44. > :03:50.Good evening. Help-yourself if you feel hungry during the programme.
:03:50. > :03:54.Your moment of the week? I have to join in your theme. My moment was
:03:54. > :03:58.on Monday seeing the Prime Minister with a sign behind him that said
:03:58. > :04:04.the Alzheimer's Society, who he was addressing, and the dressing that
:04:04. > :04:08.society on the names of his donors, who had had supper in his flat. He
:04:08. > :04:12.went into a long explanation about that. It was a metaphor for the
:04:12. > :04:15.absolute chaos in which the Government found itself. That
:04:15. > :04:19.morning, the Prime Minister had said he would not be releasing the
:04:19. > :04:24.names. He did not go to the House of Commons on that day, notable by
:04:24. > :04:29.his absence. And there he was, having to come out with it all to
:04:29. > :04:32.the Alzheimer's Society. This is not a well ordered Government.
:04:32. > :04:35.compounded it by getting the press corps to go there because he was
:04:35. > :04:39.going to talk about party funding and said he would take questions,
:04:40. > :04:44.and then said he would not take questions. That really endear at
:04:44. > :04:48.him. And that was at the beginning of the week before things got
:04:48. > :04:53.really bad. Something I think will be a bigger problem for the Prime
:04:53. > :04:57.Minister, on Monday his independent review of counter-terrorism
:04:57. > :05:01.legislation presented a report to Parliament on control orders. He
:05:01. > :05:05.said control orders fulfilled their primary purpose of disrupting
:05:05. > :05:10.terrorist activity. Government got rid of them in December. He said
:05:10. > :05:19.they were effective and enforceable. Even more worryingly, he said their
:05:19. > :05:23.replacement, a watered down version, he said, "they are unlikely to
:05:23. > :05:28.further the requirements of national security, rather the
:05:28. > :05:32.reverse". This is serious. I thought the decision to get rid of
:05:32. > :05:34.Control Orders was incomprehensible and it looks like the independent
:05:34. > :05:43.review of counter-terrorism legislation feels the same. Feeling
:05:43. > :05:51.vindicated? Yes. I think they were necessary. That was all we needed,
:05:51. > :05:53.yes or no. Or a pasty. You can have a pasty.
:05:53. > :05:57.Now, according to an independent report into last summer's riots,
:05:57. > :06:00.society urgently needs to set about improving the character of children
:06:00. > :06:04.and young people. Poor parenting and schooling is highlighted by the
:06:04. > :06:08.report, which I guess we kind of knew already, as are some 500,000
:06:08. > :06:12."forgotten families" who bump along the bottom of society. Which I
:06:12. > :06:17.think we knew too. But how important is developing moral
:06:17. > :06:19.strength in Britain's underclass? And how on earth do you do it?
:06:19. > :06:23.Camilla Batmanghelidjh, whose charity, Kids Company, deals with
:06:23. > :06:33.some of the most vulnerable young people, joins us for her take of
:06:33. > :06:45.
:06:45. > :06:51.This might look like a tranquil space, but last summer this strip
:06:51. > :06:56.of Clapham was absolutely devastated by rioters, raging,
:06:56. > :07:02.breaking into shops, looting and burning spaces down. Nearly eight
:07:02. > :07:06.months later, it seems as if the nation has entered a phase of child
:07:06. > :07:14.bashing, and our children and young people are being blamed for the
:07:14. > :07:18.disturbances of the summer. The recent riots inquiry adds to this
:07:18. > :07:24.argument by suggesting that the blame should be placed with
:07:24. > :07:30.character flaws within children, and disturbed parenting. The truth
:07:30. > :07:33.is that the riots did not happen because children had bad character.
:07:33. > :07:38.Individuals in a group setting, when the mob is rolling, will
:07:38. > :07:48.always behave according to the mob, a because that is a psychological
:07:48. > :07:48.
:07:49. > :07:55.law of group think. The truth is that you are looking at
:07:55. > :07:59.approximately 1.5 up to 2 million individuals within these families.
:07:59. > :08:03.Currently, our social work, housing and mental health departments are
:08:03. > :08:08.completely at breaking point and unable to cope with the family is
:08:08. > :08:16.that they are dealing with, let alone to absorb some more disturbed
:08:16. > :08:20.individuals into the system. Disturbed children do not get to
:08:21. > :08:25.write reports. They do not turn up on our airways to put their points
:08:25. > :08:34.across. So they make convenient victims for articulate, middle
:08:34. > :08:39.class people who want to put the blame at their door. Last summer, a
:08:39. > :08:46.minority of children and young people exhibited truly hateful
:08:46. > :08:54.behaviour. But we generated this hate in them. A tidy inquiry with
:08:54. > :09:00.middle class-framed solutions is hardly going to solve the problem.
:09:00. > :09:05.Camilla joins us in the studio. Welcome back to This Week. Lovely
:09:05. > :09:09.to see you. You say the report is wrong to blame children and parents.
:09:09. > :09:13.What do you say to people watching who saw the rioting and the
:09:13. > :09:18.pictures and they might say, we need to condemn more and understand
:09:18. > :09:24.less? I do not think rioting has the right thing to do. And I do not
:09:24. > :09:27.condone it. But I think we need to arrive at a point where we
:09:27. > :09:33.understand the drivers that created the riots on our streets in the
:09:33. > :09:39.summer. And what is very evident, at street level during the summer,
:09:39. > :09:43.is that the riots did not happen by accident, and run. You could feel
:09:43. > :09:48.that things were escalating and children and young people were
:09:48. > :09:54.talking about revenge, because they felt that society had absolutely
:09:54. > :09:57.nothing to offer them. And repeatedly they were being
:09:57. > :10:00.described interrogatory ways. lots of people who come from
:10:00. > :10:06.deprived backgrounds and feels society has nothing to offer them
:10:06. > :10:13.do not riot. That is true. Because I do not think it is deprivation
:10:13. > :10:17.that makes you riot. And I don't think the rioters were all the same.
:10:17. > :10:24.Was there not an element of pure criminality among some of the
:10:24. > :10:29.rioters? They were opportunists who had -- who stepped in and took
:10:29. > :10:36.things and broke into spaces. But the real driver's of the riots were
:10:36. > :10:41.actually people who were deeply enraged. And that is what we are
:10:41. > :10:45.not facing. We are describing the riots as a shopping orgy. It was
:10:45. > :10:50.not. There were some really disturbed people in that space and
:10:50. > :10:55.we need to tackle that. Do you recognise the description of
:10:55. > :10:58.Britain as at war with its children? No. I do think that
:10:58. > :11:04.sometimes you get a view in the media that all youngsters, if they
:11:04. > :11:08.are wearing a hoodie they must be bad. I see that. But I do not think
:11:08. > :11:12.the riots created that atmosphere. I agree with David Lammy, the black
:11:12. > :11:17.MP for Tottenham, who said it is nothing to do with unemployment,
:11:17. > :11:19.although that is a big problem in London - 50% of black kids are
:11:20. > :11:23.unemployed - but he said the riots were nothing to do with
:11:23. > :11:29.unemployment or Government cuts, but were an explosion of hedonism
:11:29. > :11:33.and nihilism. I think he is right in the sense that there were not
:11:33. > :11:36.riots in Hull. They have very poor communities there. The report,
:11:37. > :11:41.which I agree was a bit bland, there was a fascinating description
:11:41. > :11:45.of what happened in the Lozells district of Birmingham, a very
:11:46. > :11:48.tough area. No riots there, although there were elsewhere in
:11:48. > :11:53.Birmingham. There were a community leaders dealing with the issue
:11:53. > :11:56.straight away and there was a sense of community. That sense of
:11:56. > :12:02.community obviously was not recognisable in some parts where
:12:02. > :12:06.riots took place. He mentions David Lammy, MP and the Tottenham area,
:12:06. > :12:10.where the riots took place. What do you say to his remark that he felt
:12:10. > :12:13.parents were not free to discipline children, and that makes the job of
:12:13. > :12:20.building character, giving youngsters a moral compass more
:12:20. > :12:24.difficult? I think we are looking at this the wrong way. Children are
:12:24. > :12:29.fundamentally good individuals. They want to be law-abiding and to
:12:29. > :12:35.participate in society. What we are not looking at is how our agencies
:12:35. > :12:39.are behaving in an anti-social way, and demonstrating to the children
:12:39. > :12:43.that humanity is not that worthwhile. I want to give you an
:12:43. > :12:47.example. When you are four years old and your mother goes to social
:12:47. > :12:52.services and pleads for help and the social work department says, I
:12:52. > :12:56.cannot do anything about it, and then the mother screams and shouts,
:12:56. > :13:00.and eventually security comes and removes the child and the mother,
:13:00. > :13:06.that a little four-year-old watching that exchange will begin
:13:06. > :13:10.to think that actually being a human being in distress, no one
:13:10. > :13:14.will step in to help you, and you become responsible for your own
:13:15. > :13:18.survival. And that is my point. We are creating a generation of
:13:18. > :13:23.children and young people who believe that belonging to society
:13:23. > :13:31.is not worthwhile, because society is not protecting humanity. It is
:13:31. > :13:35.not taking care of them. Do you buy that, Michael? I feel despair,
:13:35. > :13:38.really. I have been following Camilla's work for some time and I
:13:38. > :13:42.understand what she says about the damage done to children, and that
:13:42. > :13:45.many children are woefully abused at home and that in many cases it
:13:45. > :13:49.is not even appropriate to talk about the family because it is not
:13:49. > :13:54.something we would recognise as a family. But as I understand it
:13:54. > :13:58.there are so many of these people, and in a way it is too easy to
:13:58. > :14:03.blame social services. It seems to me that the numbers and the
:14:03. > :14:08.conditions are beyond a scale on which we can hope to deal with this,
:14:08. > :14:13.which is why... I am not blaming social services because individual
:14:13. > :14:21.workers are doing a great job. I am blaming politicians, because what
:14:21. > :14:24.is required is a Royal Commission to look at the structure of social
:14:25. > :14:30.care for children in this country, both child protection and child
:14:30. > :14:35.mental-health. Because what is evident, because of research, is
:14:35. > :14:40.that the brains of children who are exposed to maltreatment are
:14:40. > :14:50.changing in their neuronal Pathways, biasing children towards much more
:14:50. > :14:53.aggressive, savage behaviour. It is The work you do is fantastic but it
:14:53. > :14:58.can only be of necessity on quite a small scale. The amount of energy
:14:58. > :15:01.that has to be devoted by you and your volunteers means you can only
:15:01. > :15:06.ever reach a small group of kids. This is what makes me desperate.
:15:06. > :15:10.That the numbers are just beyond what any society can hope to cope
:15:10. > :15:15.with. I think there is an enormous amount of money being wasted
:15:15. > :15:19.because we keep funding a service structure that's not fit for
:15:19. > :15:24.purpose. Our child care systems haven't changed since the Victorian
:15:24. > :15:27.times. At the Victorian times they had Barnardo's and the large
:15:27. > :15:31.orphanages supporting it, there's no support mechanism are to it at
:15:31. > :15:36.the moment. If all you say is true why didn't the riot in the 30s when
:15:36. > :15:39.poverty was much more grinding, unemployment was much higher, the
:15:39. > :15:45.kids had the same brains? I don't think it's about poverty and
:15:45. > :15:51.unemployment. I think it's about perversion. It's about children who
:15:51. > :15:56.are being severely maltreated. It's about the fraying and breakdown of
:15:56. > :16:01.social care structures. Families hadn't broken down. The neighbour
:16:01. > :16:04.could have perhaps fed the child who wasn't being fed and now the
:16:04. > :16:10.neighbour's too frightened to step in and do anything because they
:16:10. > :16:13.might be accused of being a speed fill file -- paedophile or whatever.
:16:13. > :16:20.The social care structures informally have broken down and the
:16:20. > :16:25.formal ones are no not fit for purpose. Camilla says the
:16:25. > :16:28.politicians should take the blame. These riots happened after 13 years
:16:28. > :16:32.of quite prosperous Labour Government. Should you be taking
:16:32. > :16:36.the blame? Well, look, I am not blaming the Tories for those riots
:16:36. > :16:40.even though they were in power when they happened. These kids grew up
:16:40. > :16:44.under Labour. Is that relevant, is that even worth pointing out?
:16:44. > :16:47.the same time crime was going down. Crime amongst young people was
:16:47. > :16:51.going down. If you look at the statistics of crime of adults on
:16:51. > :16:55.children, it's dropped by an incredible two thirds since the
:16:55. > :17:00.early 70s, so we shouldn't have a council of despair here. I agree
:17:00. > :17:03.with what Camilla says about the need for early intervention,
:17:03. > :17:09.psychological therapies, dealing with disturbed kids. But there must
:17:09. > :17:14.also be an issue about families, and about absent fathers and about
:17:14. > :17:20.gangs. What are families apart from individuals? What we have got is a
:17:20. > :17:23.generation of disturbed children growing up unable to parent their
:17:23. > :17:29.own children, not having the emotional resources. It's not about
:17:29. > :17:32.lessons in parenting, they don't have the emotional fibre because no
:17:32. > :17:38.one's taken care of them properly and somewhere along the line we
:17:38. > :17:40.have to break this cycle and be truthful. What's the point of name-
:17:40. > :17:47.calling kheufrpb and -- children and you say children are not being
:17:47. > :17:52.blamed but recently there was a massive PR company sort of
:17:52. > :17:57.assessment of trust in Britain and three sets of people ended up being
:17:57. > :18:00.described as least trustworthy, politicians, the media and the last
:18:00. > :18:03.one was young people. We have become a nation where we are
:18:03. > :18:07.describing as young people untrustworthy, what's wrong with
:18:07. > :18:10.us? You could have done that poll at any time in the last 100 years
:18:11. > :18:16.and you would have got the same result, always always the media in
:18:16. > :18:21.there and politicians and young people have always been bad for
:18:21. > :18:23.3,000 years. Camilla, thank you for being with us. Now forget all these
:18:24. > :18:26.queues outside the 24-hour pasty places and simply pour yourself
:18:26. > :18:31.another glass of Blue Nun from your copious panic-proof supplies that
:18:31. > :18:34.even Francis Maude couldn't undermine because coming up:
:18:34. > :18:38.Singer//songwriter Katie Melua, who'll be refusing to judge us on
:18:38. > :18:41.first impressions. And for those who prefer to do just that,
:18:41. > :18:49.remember we're happy to ignore all your ill-judged comments on our
:18:49. > :18:51.interweb page, The Facebook and on The Twitter.
:18:51. > :18:54.Now, this afternoon the This Week office received a special phone
:18:54. > :18:57.call from the greatest impresario in high-waisted trousers, Simon
:18:57. > :19:04.Cowell, who asked if we can put an act together for this year's
:19:04. > :19:10.Britain's Got Talent. No problem, we said. Michael, as we all know,
:19:10. > :19:14.is an expert on the triangle. When he manages to hit it Alan's guitar-
:19:14. > :19:17.strumming days are not that far behind him. And me - well, I can
:19:18. > :19:21.hula dance with the best of them. And we've also got the BBC's John
:19:21. > :19:31.Pienaar, a man with endless talents. Here he is showing off just one of
:19:31. > :19:43.
:19:43. > :19:47.them, with his round-up of the OK guys. Come on, let's go!
:19:47. > :19:52.Impressed? Well I bet you thought we political hacks were a bunch of
:19:52. > :19:57.lazy slobs, didn't you? Barely fit enough to lift up a scrap of gossip
:19:57. > :20:00.or raise a glass? Well, that's absolutely true. But after last
:20:00. > :20:04.week well I am giving up the pasties and posh dinners and
:20:04. > :20:10.learning how to twist and turn and do flip-flops better than our
:20:10. > :20:14.political leaders. I could hardly do worse, could I?
:20:14. > :20:18.Cameron knew last weekend was going to be wobbly, obviously after that
:20:18. > :20:22.Budget but then it came out his party Treasury had been offering PM
:20:22. > :20:28.on a plate. Quality time with David Cameron, and all at the bargain
:20:28. > :20:32.price of a �250,000. Well, the Treasury obviously had to go.
:20:32. > :20:35.Quickly. And the rebuttal was almost as quick. This is not the
:20:35. > :20:42.way that we raise money in the Conservative Party. It shouldn't
:20:42. > :20:46.have happened. It's quite right that Peter Cruddas has resigned.
:20:46. > :20:51.But now David Cameron was having to pick up the pace. The Sunday Times
:20:51. > :20:56.scoop had left all the other journalists looking flat-footed so
:20:56. > :21:00.all the press were playing catch-up. Who had David Cameron had for
:21:00. > :21:03.dinner? What questions had they asked? What had they been
:21:03. > :21:08.discussing? After first saying that was no one's business, David
:21:08. > :21:11.Cameron ended up doing one of these. In the two years I have been Prime
:21:11. > :21:16.Minister there have been three occasions on which significant
:21:16. > :21:21.donors have come to a dinner in my flat. None of these dinners were
:21:21. > :21:27.fundraising dinners and none were paid for by the taxpayer. OK guys,
:21:27. > :21:31.let's do a pyramid. Number 10 gave out Dave's guest list at Downing
:21:31. > :21:34.Street. It revealed, well nothing much, frankly. Is it really
:21:34. > :21:38.surprising that Cameron has the odd cosy dinner with the very rich
:21:38. > :21:41.Conservatives who keep the party going year after year? It would be
:21:41. > :21:44.good to know if they discussed policy. But we don't. It would be
:21:44. > :21:47.different if the taxpayer financeded party politics, but we
:21:47. > :21:51.won't. But it's still a bit embarrassing
:21:51. > :21:56.for the Conservatives because it feeds the perception that Cameron's
:21:56. > :22:04.Conservatives were a kind of mutual support group for the wealthy. A
:22:04. > :22:09.pyramid of plutocrats, but will it come tumbling down? Sorry guys.
:22:09. > :22:14.Let's try again. Ed Miliband knows a political
:22:14. > :22:17.opportunity when it's right in his face, towering overhead. David
:22:17. > :22:22.Cameron was tottering a bit. But Ed Miliband wanted to tear the story
:22:22. > :22:27.down. Especially the bit about the inquiry.
:22:27. > :22:30.A Conservative peer appointed by the Prime Minister. An inquiry into
:22:30. > :22:38.the Conservative Party, by the Conservative Party, for the
:22:38. > :22:46.Conservative Party. Is a whitewash and everyone knows it.
:22:46. > :22:49.So, a scandal followed by another lot of slap-stick in the Commons.
:22:49. > :22:52.Sound familiar? If anyone isn't already thinking they're all the
:22:52. > :22:57.same, well the Tories keep reminding us that Labour gets most
:22:57. > :23:00.of its cash from the unions. Maybe all the parties will get so sick of
:23:00. > :23:06.scandal they'll agree on a new system. And maybe I will end up as
:23:06. > :23:10.the star of the circus. Poor Cameron. The economy's
:23:10. > :23:16.struggling, there's a fuel strike looming and ludicrously he is he is
:23:16. > :23:21.having to defend his pasty cred. He can thank his friend George Osborne
:23:21. > :23:28.for that. This is positively, I promise you, my last pasty. When
:23:28. > :23:32.was the last time you bought a pasty in Greggs? Look, I can't
:23:32. > :23:36.remember the last time I bought a pasty to answer... That kind of
:23:37. > :23:40.sums it up. I love a hot pasty, I think the last one I bought was
:23:40. > :23:44.from the west Cornwall Pasty company, who I seem to remember I
:23:44. > :23:48.was in Leeds station at the time. The choice was whether to have one
:23:48. > :23:52.of the small ones or large ones, I have a feeling I opted for the
:23:52. > :23:58.large one and very good it was, too. Mm, when was the last time these
:23:58. > :24:02.two bought a pasty in Greggs? Still, good PR and you can't blame them
:24:02. > :24:05.for looking pleased. It turned out that shop mentioned closed down
:24:05. > :24:09.five years ago. There is a fuel strike coming possibly, it hasn't
:24:09. > :24:12.even started. But a Minister got himself into a bit of a tangle with
:24:12. > :24:16.this bit of advice that upset the firefighters and the health and
:24:16. > :24:21.safety people. The greater the extent to which people have petrol
:24:21. > :24:26.fuel in their vehicles, with maybe a little bit in the garage as well,
:24:26. > :24:30.in a jerry can, the longer we will be able to keep things going.
:24:30. > :24:34.dear, over to you Prime Minister. No need to queue to buy petrol, of
:24:34. > :24:37.course people should take sensible precautions if there is an
:24:37. > :24:42.opportunity to top up your tank if a sraoeubg is potentially on the
:24:42. > :24:49.way, it's sensible if you are able to do that. No mention of jerry
:24:49. > :24:53.cans this time, another U-turn. Ed has to be careful. Unite is
:24:53. > :24:56.Labour's biggest backer and a strike will ruin a lot of weekends.
:24:56. > :24:58.Ed does not want to slip. We have to avoid the strike and the strike
:24:58. > :25:03.must not happen and the Government shouldn't be ramping up the
:25:03. > :25:08.rhetoric. No, Ed and go easy on the pasties, that's not what they mean
:25:08. > :25:12.when they say Labour needs a heavyweight. Dave, George, when the
:25:12. > :25:17.papers start pelting you with pasty and you are ten points behind in
:25:17. > :25:25.the polls and the cuts haven't started you know the mid-term
:25:25. > :25:32.blewser here -- blues are here. Guys, the pasties are on me.
:25:32. > :25:39.He fooled them, he ran out and they couldn't catch him.
:25:39. > :25:44.They are currently performing in the Roundhouse in calm Ren. --
:25:44. > :25:47.Camden. There are reports from Bradford west, there has been a by-
:25:47. > :25:51.election there, George Galloway, running as independent there is
:25:51. > :25:54.doing very well. Indeed, some reports are suggesting he may even
:25:54. > :25:59.have won the seat which would be a major upset and disappointment for
:25:59. > :26:03.Labour. We can't confirm that. We do know that he is counting well,
:26:03. > :26:07.we don't know if he's won. If we hear that he has, or get any more
:26:07. > :26:13.we will come to you before the end of the programme. Chances of a
:26:13. > :26:21.major political upset happening in Bradford West. We are joined by
:26:21. > :26:24.Miranda scan Green again. Pasty- gate. In a sense, the jerry can
:26:24. > :26:28.story and the rest they're not quite serious, do they not add up
:26:29. > :26:32.to a damaging week for Mr Cameron? I would say the worst fortnight the
:26:32. > :26:38.Government has had since it was elected. That bad? Yeah, I think so.
:26:38. > :26:42.And we don't know whether it's over yet because the press has the scent
:26:42. > :26:47.of the hunt and is after the Government for everything. But it
:26:47. > :26:51.has been extraordinarily contact- handed. And the Lib Dems have kept
:26:51. > :26:54.their heads down. Nick Clegg has been at a nuclear summit looking
:26:54. > :26:57.statesman-like which is convenient, only to return to these shores to
:26:57. > :27:03.be asked when he last ate a pasty which must have been surreal for
:27:03. > :27:08.him. But yes, I think you are right. They're silly stories individually,
:27:08. > :27:10.is it the weather, have we silly season early? No it adds up to
:27:10. > :27:14.something serious, which is a continuing problem with the Tory
:27:14. > :27:18.Party being seen as elite and defending their own and not in
:27:18. > :27:22.touch with the ordinary person who is facing difficult times. And it's
:27:22. > :27:25.all about pastry snacks. That's become the dom tphept Labour
:27:25. > :27:32.narrative about this Government now, a bunch of to haves out of touch
:27:32. > :27:36.with ordinary people? Yeah, they fed into it. You couldn't have
:27:36. > :27:40.followed the Budget when it looked as if they were looking after rich
:27:40. > :27:46.elite at the expense of grannies and goodness knows who else, with
:27:46. > :27:50.the Sunday Times expose and then of course that made John Man's
:27:50. > :27:55.question, which would be irrelevant at any other time, made it
:27:55. > :27:58.something significant. And the other thing that's changed is there
:27:58. > :28:03.were - the left-wing press would always have made something about
:28:03. > :28:09.this for a Tory Government, Mr Cameron now faces a battering day
:28:09. > :28:15.after day from all the right-wing press, too? Yeah and there is
:28:15. > :28:19.another factor, this fundraising scandal, it must be so depressing
:28:19. > :28:22.to the Prime Minister. I mean, I don't think any party leader
:28:22. > :28:26.actually enjoys having to go grubbing for money, which is what
:28:26. > :28:30.they're forced to do because they need the money. I think David
:28:30. > :28:33.Cameron's a fundamentally honest man and to have your integrity
:28:33. > :28:37.questioned and dragged through the mire-- is really a debilitating
:28:37. > :28:41.experience and then to have Peter Cruddas say as he apparently did,
:28:41. > :28:43.there might be ways of avoiding the ban on overseas donations which
:28:44. > :28:47.makes it difficult for the Prime Minister to resist having a public
:28:47. > :28:50.inquiry, I mean the whole thing is just funmently depressing. I am
:28:50. > :28:53.told that's why he is in a foul mood at the moment.
:28:53. > :28:56.The Prime Minister. Because he does find his integrity
:28:56. > :29:01.being questioned. It's the worst possible thing. Miranda, all
:29:01. > :29:05.parties have problems with funding, certainly all the major ones. Is
:29:05. > :29:14.this paving the way to something which will be unpopular with voters,
:29:14. > :29:18.Perhaps. One of the estimates from the latest report into funding
:29:18. > :29:23.political parties was that it would cost up to �4 per voter, which
:29:23. > :29:26.people might swallow. What could be interesting is that we have had
:29:27. > :29:31.this disastrous couple of weeks, specifically for the Tory party,
:29:31. > :29:37.rather than the coalition, because it is the image problem with the
:29:37. > :29:41.elite. How do they detox again? Luckily, this is mid-term, so
:29:41. > :29:45.perhaps there is time before the next election to recover again,
:29:45. > :29:50.again on Labour and get the polls back to where they were. But they
:29:50. > :29:54.need something to help them detox again. One of those things could be
:29:54. > :29:59.to clean up party funding and to try to actually build a cross-party
:29:59. > :30:05.consensus on reform for this that might work. Another project might
:30:05. > :30:10.be to tackle the House of Lords, to show you are a modern, clean party.
:30:10. > :30:15.It is quite a jump, but you got the House of Lords in there.
:30:15. > :30:19.projects, to show you are clean and modern. I am not sure people care
:30:19. > :30:23.about that. Labour is having a field day at the moment, good luck
:30:23. > :30:27.to them on that. They have done pretty well and Mr Milibands set it
:30:27. > :30:33.up well last week in his response to the Budget, which paved the way
:30:33. > :30:36.for this. But party funding is a problem for Labour, too. Well, it
:30:36. > :30:41.is a problem that we could not reached the agreement when Hayden
:30:41. > :30:45.Phillips was close to an agreement. But what Francis Maude was saying
:30:45. > :30:50.this week - he had a bad week - he was suggesting nothing happened in
:30:50. > :30:54.13 years of Labour. We reform the overseas donations, put a cap on
:30:54. > :31:00.donations, and made them transparent. They were important
:31:01. > :31:05.reforms. Can we go that step further? I am against taxpayers
:31:05. > :31:08.paying for elections. The only way I think it might be acceptable is
:31:08. > :31:18.as an interim measure while new arrangements their dinner and they
:31:18. > :31:21.can get their acts together to raise funds. -- while they bed in.
:31:22. > :31:28.I will tell you what could change the Labour Party from being on the
:31:28. > :31:31.offensive, which they definitely are at the moment, and it would
:31:31. > :31:38.change the terms of trade and involve party funding, a tanker
:31:38. > :31:41.strike. Yes, that would be bad. But at a higher level - and Alan will
:31:41. > :31:46.not accept this - at a higher level, the Labour Party is massively
:31:46. > :31:51.hampered like being funded by trade unions. It distorts what the Labour
:31:51. > :31:54.Party talks about. It distorts their attitude to industry,
:31:54. > :31:58.distorts who gets elected as party leader. The reason we have Ed
:31:58. > :32:03.Miliband is because of the union vote. I think they would do better
:32:03. > :32:07.if they were not funded by trade unions. The trouble is that we do
:32:07. > :32:12.not have hedge fund managers donating to the Labour Party.
:32:12. > :32:15.Mr Blair had quite a few rich people giving money. I am not sure
:32:15. > :32:19.being dependent on which people is better than being dependent on the
:32:19. > :32:24.unions. My point, in the short term, is that party funding could
:32:24. > :32:28.boomerang on Labour if there is a tanker strike, because the Tory
:32:28. > :32:32.narrative would be, all right, you have had fun with the pasties and
:32:32. > :32:38.the jerry can, but the country has been brought a halt by a union
:32:38. > :32:42.which is Labour's biggest donor. is part of their problem. Part of
:32:42. > :32:46.that advice was to try to embarrass us at a stage when, what has
:32:46. > :32:50.happened, a union has balloted on industrial action. That is part of
:32:50. > :32:55.the process. If you believe in free trade unions and the right to
:32:55. > :32:58.strike, grow up. They had a ballot. They have not named a date for
:32:58. > :33:02.industrial action and they are going to ACAS, so the chances are
:33:02. > :33:07.there will be a settlement of this dispute. And their timing was
:33:07. > :33:11.absolutely appalling. Most people remember 2000 when it was a bunch
:33:12. > :33:16.of unelected people without any ballot that were creating the chaos,
:33:16. > :33:20.and the trade unions actually stepped in and help to resolve it.
:33:20. > :33:25.And all of what Alan has said was known by the Government. Being out
:33:25. > :33:29.of touch is one thing, and frankly almost all governments to come out
:33:29. > :33:32.of touch by the nature of being in government. But being incompetent
:33:32. > :33:36.is another thing. I have not understood throughout this week
:33:36. > :33:41.when anybody would advise you to fill up your tank when the strike
:33:41. > :33:46.is 10 days away, and in the next 10 days you will empty your tank again.
:33:46. > :33:50.What is the point? That seems incompetent. It is incompetent in
:33:50. > :33:55.terms of political PR, but it also has this tinge of being incompetent
:33:55. > :33:58.in terms of being in charge of the country. What was damaging for the
:33:58. > :34:03.Blair government about the wildcat fuelled protests was the idea that
:34:03. > :34:07.they were out of control. And then Labour plunged in the polls and it
:34:07. > :34:13.looked very bad for a while. This is not a wildcat strike, but
:34:13. > :34:16.planned industrial action. And it probably will be resolved.
:34:16. > :34:23.queues at the petrol stations makes it look out of control which is bad
:34:23. > :34:30.for any government. The issue about competence is important. The VAT on
:34:30. > :34:34.pasties and hot Cornish pasties is one thing. He stuck 20 cent VAT on
:34:34. > :34:40.static caravans. We will lose thousands of jobs in East Yorkshire.
:34:40. > :34:44.-- 20%. They will save 14 million and spend 45 million on the people
:34:44. > :34:48.who will be unemployed. It was a bad Budget in the sense that it did
:34:48. > :34:55.nothing for growth, and you see this week there are statistics on
:34:55. > :35:00.the economy, the last quarter of 2011, the OECD are saying a second
:35:00. > :35:03.recession. I stick to saying we will look back and say this was an
:35:03. > :35:09.extremely good Budget. The reduction in corporation tax and
:35:09. > :35:13.income tax will stimulate investment. Are we agreed or not
:35:13. > :35:21.that you will not hear the phrase for quite some time now, if ever a
:35:22. > :35:27.game, "We are all in this together". Morally repugnant is a phrase that
:35:27. > :35:34.will come back to haunt people. has gone, it has joined the lexicon
:35:34. > :35:37.of the Big Society. I'm afraid so. We end on agreement.
:35:37. > :35:41.Now, if you're a former tax exile called Peter Cruddas, picked by
:35:41. > :35:44.Call-me-Dave to pick the pockets of the rich, don't be surprised when,
:35:44. > :35:48.if secretly filmed pimping the PM and his policy committee to anyone
:35:48. > :35:51.with a spare quarter of a million, your former mates start to distance
:35:51. > :35:54.themselves. And if, when forced to resign, you claim to "deeply regret
:35:54. > :35:57.any impression of impropriety arising from my bluster", you'll no
:35:57. > :36:02.doubt forgive the public for thinking there could be more to it
:36:02. > :36:12.than simply an "impression". So we've decided to put first
:36:12. > :36:15.
:36:15. > :36:19.impressions in this week's The world's most extensive face
:36:19. > :36:22.transplant has helped Richard Norris put an end to 15 years of
:36:22. > :36:28.living as a recluse and given him the chance to rebuild his looks and
:36:28. > :36:35.his life. It is still a surreal experience to look at him and it is
:36:35. > :36:38.hard not to stare. Before, people would stare because he wore a mask.
:36:38. > :36:43.But first impressions don't always have to be about appearance with
:36:43. > :36:53.the new talent show claiming to judge purely on vocal ability.
:36:53. > :36:53.
:36:54. > :36:58.known as the voice. And this show is called the Voice. And with a
:36:58. > :37:01.musical based on the life story of Susan Boyle opening this week, the
:37:01. > :37:07.former Britain's Got Talent runner- up has shown that looks can be
:37:07. > :37:11.deceiving. And you shouldn't necessarily judge a CD by its cover.
:37:11. > :37:14.As for politicians, first impressions can be lasting
:37:14. > :37:18.impressions, with Cameron and Osborne desperate to distance
:37:18. > :37:24.themselves from the idea that dinners for donors means we are no
:37:24. > :37:29.longer all in this together. Just to give you an update from Bradford
:37:29. > :37:33.West, we are learning that George Galloway is now texting journalists
:37:33. > :37:36.saying he thinks he has a one in Bradford West. He is confident. We
:37:36. > :37:41.do not yet have the result but you will get it, News Channel later
:37:42. > :37:49.tonight. Good to see you again, a pleasure to have you back. Thank
:37:49. > :37:54.you. First impressions, in your business, they matter. Of course.
:37:55. > :37:59.But I think in the long term I do not think they do as much. A lot of
:37:59. > :38:04.people come and they tend to go, but you can only maintain a certain
:38:04. > :38:08.level if you are really talented and really good. We have had this
:38:08. > :38:13.BBC show which I rather enjoyed, the first one, and the constructor
:38:13. > :38:19.is that you just listen to the voice. To begin, you do not get to
:38:19. > :38:27.see the person. Camber work? Is it ever only the voice? I think it can
:38:27. > :38:31.be. Image plays such a huge part, especially in the history of rock
:38:31. > :38:37.and roll. Sometimes it does not have to be a beautiful image. It
:38:37. > :38:43.can be a controversial image. Look at Bob Dylan, or any other artist.
:38:43. > :38:47.The Beatles had their hair cut in the 60s and that was there look. It
:38:47. > :38:53.is a mixture of both but you definitely need the talent and the
:38:53. > :38:58.music to back it up. If you were a talent scout in your business, you
:38:58. > :39:03.would not just judge somebody on the voice alone. In the
:39:03. > :39:07.entertainment business, doesn't it have to be a package? Yes, but if
:39:07. > :39:14.it is a truly exceptional voice, then I would. You can get away with
:39:14. > :39:17.it. Are there examples of that other than the obvious one? Gosh. I
:39:17. > :39:21.hate to say it, but when Adele first came out there were people
:39:21. > :39:27.who thought she was not the right size. That is ridiculous, and look
:39:27. > :39:32.how well she has gone. And it is harder for women? Expected to look
:39:32. > :39:38.good in general as well as singing well. Perhaps, but blokes have it
:39:38. > :39:44.bad, too. The guys do not seem to mind so much. I get that impression.
:39:44. > :39:50.Women tend to mind more if their looks are made a fact of. We have
:39:50. > :39:53.seen that impressions matter in politics. As we said earlier, the
:39:53. > :39:59.impression is abroad that Mr Cameron and those around him are
:39:59. > :40:04.out of touch. And it is by a simple thing that you probably could not
:40:04. > :40:07.predict was going to happen, but it has left an impression. And I
:40:07. > :40:13.guarantee, pasties will be slung around George Osborne's neck more
:40:13. > :40:18.than any other controversy he has had. It will be what the bicycle
:40:18. > :40:22.was to Norman Tebbit. But these are not first impressions, they are
:40:22. > :40:26.mature. But it is interesting that the polling showed after the
:40:26. > :40:33.election that one of the reasons the Tories had not won an overall
:40:33. > :40:37.majority was the impression that they were too posh. Yes, but then
:40:37. > :40:43.again, if you remember that election, Nick Clegg and I agree
:40:43. > :40:49.with Nick. He made this amazing impression on the very first debate
:40:49. > :40:54.between the party leaders. That is a very good example. And yet it did
:40:54. > :40:57.not materialise in the ballot box. But remembering what the first
:40:57. > :41:01.impression was of Nick Clegg, because for the public it was their
:41:01. > :41:03.first impression, and what the more mature impression is, of the
:41:04. > :41:08.trouble of a student loans and the health service, it is very
:41:08. > :41:12.different. You say that men can have it hard in the entertainment
:41:12. > :41:19.business as well, but the media, particularly newspapers, are
:41:19. > :41:23.usually more bitchy about women. Everything is analysed so much.
:41:23. > :41:27.Everything is literally magnified on such a huge scale, so it can be
:41:28. > :41:31.quite difficult. But the thing is, first impressions come and go. He
:41:31. > :41:36.might have that first impression initially and then it is the next
:41:36. > :41:41.day and it changes and something else comes in. So, what was your
:41:41. > :41:46.first impression of Michael? You met him when you were last on. Have
:41:46. > :41:54.you changed? Well, I would say it is perfect for both of you. There
:41:54. > :41:59.anything I would say is that you should swap shirts. Should we do
:42:00. > :42:04.that now? I would not wear that. have good ratings but that would
:42:04. > :42:10.destroy it altogether. Change their shirts. But as will the audience
:42:10. > :42:16.think, too. You have a new album, Secret Symphony, which is doing
:42:16. > :42:20.well across Europe. I am delighted with it. It is an orchestral based
:42:20. > :42:23.record, a mixture of covers and songs that I have written, and I
:42:23. > :42:26.worked with the producer from the first three records, so it was
:42:26. > :42:35.wonderful to be back in the studio with him. Thank you for coming
:42:35. > :42:38.tonight. You will get the Bradford West result on the BBC News
:42:38. > :42:41.channels through the night. That's your lot for tonight, folks.
:42:42. > :42:45.But not for us, tempted as we are to head to the all-night pasty
:42:45. > :42:49.garage in Peckam which also does a nice line in jerry cans. And even
:42:49. > :42:52.though we promised to look in on Annabel's, where it's pasty and
:42:52. > :42:56.caviar night, plus a free gallon of unleaded with every Jeroboam of
:42:56. > :42:59.Blue Nun, we're off instead to our old fav' Kebabylon on the Holloway
:42:59. > :43:09.Road for one of their rather pricey "donor" kebabs, with lashings of
:43:09. > :43:12.
:43:12. > :43:15.extra-hot access to the Prime Minister. But we leave you with