:00:20. > :00:28.Tonight, we are getting into the spirit and preparing for the This
:00:28. > :00:38.Week leg of the Olympic torch relay. As the flame is handed over in
:00:38. > :00:38.
:00:38. > :00:41.Athens, is Greek membership of the euro about to be extinguished?
:00:41. > :00:47.Katrina's just returned from her homeland. The heat is on in Greece,
:00:47. > :00:52.but now is not the time to leave us in the cold. As the torch is flown
:00:52. > :00:57.on a special plane to London, new French President, Francois Hollande
:00:57. > :01:02.and German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, are attempting to fly in
:01:02. > :01:06.formation. Journalist and commentator Medi Hassan fears euro
:01:06. > :01:10.turbulence. The euro may be on a flight to nowhere, but back here in
:01:10. > :01:13.the UK, the coalition's flight crew has its own set of economic
:01:13. > :01:18.problems. The Scottish Government carrying a torch for temperance, is
:01:18. > :01:25.it time for the rest of the UK to deal with its alcohol problem?
:01:25. > :01:28.One expert Jilly Goolden toasts the idea of minimum pricing. I've made
:01:28. > :01:32.a very enjoyable profession from encouraging people to drink
:01:32. > :01:42.delicious wine, but unfortunately, some people are just taking it just
:01:42. > :01:47.
:01:48. > :01:51.too far. I blame Bargain Booze. Sorry, I shouldn't have done that.
:01:51. > :01:56.Anyway, evening all, welcome to This Week. If you will permit me,
:01:56. > :02:03.having been charged today with perverting the course of television,
:02:03. > :02:08.and given the huge amount of bias commentary to which I'm subjected,
:02:08. > :02:11.I'm inspired by Rebekah remember to make a brief statement. Is the
:02:11. > :02:15.camera running? OK. While I have always respected the court of
:02:15. > :02:20.public opinion, I have to question today whether the decision to book
:02:20. > :02:22.tonight's special sofa guest was made on a proper and impartial
:02:22. > :02:27.assessment of the evidence. I understand and know that there has
:02:27. > :02:32.to be thorough and proper booking policy and yet I'm baffled by the
:02:32. > :02:37.decision to book tonight's special guest. More importantly, I cannot
:02:37. > :02:42.express my anger enough that those closest to me, that would be you,
:02:42. > :02:48.Michael, have been dragged into this unfairly. One day the details
:02:48. > :02:51.of this booking will emerge and people will see today as no more
:02:51. > :02:57.than an expensive side show, a waste of licence fee payers' money,
:02:57. > :03:00.a result of an unjust and weak decision. No doubt taken by the
:03:00. > :03:04.Director General. Now, I am the presenter of This Week and I
:03:04. > :03:08.realise for many of you, that makes me no better than the scum of the
:03:08. > :03:11.earth, also known as tabloid editors and of course lawyers. But
:03:11. > :03:15.even the BBC's harshest critics can't wish to see people with no
:03:16. > :03:20.involvement in the booking policy whatsoever treated in this way.
:03:20. > :03:25.I'm glad I got that off my chest. Speaking of those whom are presumed
:03:25. > :03:30.innocent until proved guilty, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two
:03:30. > :03:35.of Westminster's most wanted, the Bonnie and Clyde of late-night
:03:35. > :03:40.political chat. This Week of course, #sadmanonatrain, Michael choo choo
:03:40. > :03:50.Portillo and back by absolutely no discernible public demand
:03:50. > :03:57.
:03:58. > :04:03.whatsoever, # Sadwomanonabus, nobody will talk to me. Michael?
:04:03. > :04:06.For seven weeks during the Olympics, it was said that people could work
:04:06. > :04:09.from home. Any part of the Government would want to admit that
:04:09. > :04:14.the capital will be in chaos that it's not reasonable to expect
:04:14. > :04:17.anyone to get to his or her office. Makes you wonder what that will do
:04:17. > :04:21.to our economic performance. The clincher is that the reason there
:04:21. > :04:24.is going to be chaos is that the Olympics are in the East End of
:04:24. > :04:28.London and the jumped up Olympic officials will be staying at the
:04:28. > :04:32.hotels in the West End of London. In order to get from one place to
:04:32. > :04:40.another, we have to have a lot of Third World arrangements to have
:04:40. > :04:45.special lanes for their Lib Dem seens. This won't go down well with
:04:45. > :04:53.the British public -- limousines. Your moment of the week?
:04:53. > :05:00.concerns the... The Conservative backbenchers committee? Yes, and
:05:00. > :05:04.Cam has a lot of problems with his backbenchers and he's ordered a
:05:04. > :05:07.faigtback. I predict things aren't going to go come plaitly quiet. I
:05:07. > :05:11.predict David Cameron will continue to have a problem with his
:05:11. > :05:16.backbenchers and this 2010 intake, they may be relatively loyal but
:05:16. > :05:21.they're a sparky intake with a lot to say. That's going to be a theme
:05:21. > :05:26.as David Cameron goes forward, a turbulent backbench. Will he cause
:05:26. > :05:30.as much trouble to the Tory as you have caused for Labour? Oh, nothing
:05:30. > :05:37.like that. They are amateurs. There's a lot of unhappiness, even
:05:37. > :05:41.among so-called loyalists. Yes. After years of shrinking austerity,
:05:41. > :05:45.a shrinking austerity economy, it's now 20% smaller than only five
:05:45. > :05:48.years ago, things couldn't get worse. This week they did. New
:05:48. > :05:52.elections failed to resolve anything, so they are going to hold
:05:52. > :05:55.them again on June 17th which will probably resolve nothing for a
:05:55. > :05:59.second time. Meanwhile, money has been withdrawn from Greek banks
:05:59. > :06:05.faster than Greece lightning. Between three and four billion
:06:05. > :06:09.euros a week gone and eurozone leaders are now saying aloud words
:06:09. > :06:14.they dared not utter only weeks ago that maybe Greece should exit the
:06:14. > :06:21.euro. Not much to smile about. We have skt Katrina who's just
:06:21. > :06:31.returned from Athens to give us her take of the week -- we have asked
:06:31. > :06:31.
:06:31. > :06:36.Katrina. I'm proud to be Greek, born and
:06:36. > :06:41.raised in Athens where my family still live. In the last two years
:06:41. > :06:44.I've watched in disbelief has Greece has sunk deeper and deeper
:06:44. > :06:48.into financial crisis what seems to have no end in sight. Last night, I
:06:48. > :06:52.arrived from Athens. This is my home from home. I was there doing
:06:52. > :06:56.stand-up shows over the last couple of months. It's been relatively
:06:56. > :07:00.unknown there but it's going through a bit of a boom because of
:07:00. > :07:07.its low overheads and people told me all the time, they need a laugh,
:07:07. > :07:10.which is hardly surprising. We hear a lot about the country's
:07:10. > :07:13.economic problems. But what about the human cost? Incomes and
:07:13. > :07:17.pensions have been halved and people hike my parents are
:07:17. > :07:22.struggling to pay their utility bills which have rocketed by 50%.
:07:22. > :07:32.On top of that, there's emergency tax, one in five are unemployed,
:07:32. > :07:42.
:07:42. > :07:48.crime is rising and suicide are up People are waiting outside
:07:48. > :07:50.supermarkets to rumage through bins for out-of-date food in extreme
:07:50. > :07:54.cases, desperate families are abandoning their children to
:07:54. > :07:59.orphanages because they can't feed them. Yes, this is Greece 2012, all
:08:00. > :08:04.this is happening alongside picture perfect sandy beaches, turquoise
:08:04. > :08:07.waters and beautiful square Whitehouses.
:08:07. > :08:11.-- white houses. The austerity measures aren't
:08:11. > :08:16.working, but leaving the eurozone isn't the right answer. No-one I
:08:16. > :08:22.know wants out. A return to devalued drachma would be
:08:22. > :08:27.catastrophic. Most would be far worse off.
:08:27. > :08:30.Stkpwhrm last month, there was hope that the elections would make a
:08:30. > :08:35.difference. But with the parties unable to form a coalition, it
:08:35. > :08:37.feels like we are back to square one, in limbo, leaderless,
:08:37. > :08:43.frustrated and angry with everyone blaming everyone else. The
:08:43. > :08:53.politicians, the banks, yermny, the illegal immigrants, and each other
:08:53. > :08:55.
:08:55. > :09:01.The date for the new elections has been called, but whether the
:09:01. > :09:04.parties will manage to pull their act together and reach an agreement,
:09:04. > :09:08.I just don't know. Meanwhile, people I know are withdrawing money
:09:08. > :09:12.from banks, but they still hope that the politicians will prove
:09:12. > :09:22.their salt and come up with a plan that can save Greece without
:09:22. > :09:26.crippling it at the same time. From the grocery shop to our
:09:26. > :09:30.grocery shop here, welcome. Thank you. It's quite hard I think for us
:09:30. > :09:34.to understand just how bad it is in Greece isn't it? The thing I was
:09:34. > :09:38.thinking about was to think of America during the Great
:09:38. > :09:45.Depression? Yes. I think Michael Portillo also said that during his
:09:45. > :09:50.documentary. It's very similar to that, it's very bad out there. As I
:09:50. > :09:56.mentioned in that clip, pensions and salaries are being slashed and
:09:56. > :09:58.the emergency tax, they were huge. The emergency tax was attached to
:09:58. > :10:02.utility bills, specifically electricity, so you couldn't avoid
:10:02. > :10:05.it or you had your electricity cut. A lot of people after paying that
:10:05. > :10:11.didn't have enough money for heating so a lot of people didn't
:10:11. > :10:14.have heating this winter. Suicide rates are up by 45% which is
:10:14. > :10:18.ridiculous. Doctors are now treating a number of people who've
:10:18. > :10:23.picked up diseases because they are rumaging through bins? Yes. To get
:10:23. > :10:29.food? Yes, for products that have gone past their use-by dates.
:10:29. > :10:33.And yet the mood in the country is, we don't want any more of this
:10:33. > :10:41.austerity? No. That's entirely understandable. But we still want
:10:41. > :10:47.to be in the euro? Yes. Which brings the austerity? Yes, but
:10:47. > :10:52.there's nothing left to give. I don't think further austerity
:10:52. > :10:59.measures, they're just tired of them and they haven't seen any
:10:59. > :11:02.result from them. Mr Papademos, the previous Prime Minister who's just
:11:02. > :11:06.left wrote an open letter to the Greek people today saying that you
:11:06. > :11:12.won't see the results for a couple of months to come and please don't
:11:12. > :11:16.be hasty in your decision because we need to stay in Europe. There's
:11:16. > :11:20.no way you can stay in the euro without further austerity measures,
:11:20. > :11:24.I mane the German public will demand them apart from anything
:11:24. > :11:29.else? If perhaps they could also help us with growth. I don't think
:11:29. > :11:32.that's the mood in Germany. Maybe we could try. I want to get your
:11:32. > :11:35.impressions of Grease in a minute, but to stick with the point Diane
:11:36. > :11:41.raised there, the problem for the Germans is that even if they were
:11:41. > :11:46.minded to loosen things a bit in Greece, the signals that would send
:11:46. > :11:50.to Italy, Spain, Portugal, Ireland... No. It's over? Germany
:11:50. > :11:54.doesn't want to be saddled with the idea that it's going to bail out
:11:54. > :11:57.every country in Europe. It's accompanied with an out-of-date
:11:57. > :12:02.impression with Greece, but they are stuck with the impression they
:12:02. > :12:08.had a year ago that Greece has a lot of lazy people who retire at
:12:08. > :12:11.the age of 50 and don't pay their taxes. Greece has moved on from
:12:12. > :12:16.there. Many people are unemployed. What we don't understand here, just
:12:16. > :12:20.think about this, people's salaries have been cut by 25%, 50%, those
:12:20. > :12:24.who are still in work. There aren't eeven basic welfare services
:12:24. > :12:27.available to people after a period of time. Once you have been out of
:12:27. > :12:34.work for aier or whatever, the basic welfare's disappeared? It's
:12:34. > :12:37.only for a year, yes. You did this excellent documentary. What did you
:12:37. > :12:40.find was the thing that most stuck in your mind from filming,
:12:40. > :12:44.interviewing and talking to the people? The thing that most stuck
:12:44. > :12:47.in my mind I mentioned before which is when I found that the aid
:12:47. > :12:52.agencies that normally work in Uganda and places like that are
:12:52. > :12:55.working in Athens and handing out medicines, free medicines and food
:12:55. > :12:59.parcels. They are offering their medical services free because again,
:12:59. > :13:03.one of the things that goes after a period of unemployment is, you
:13:03. > :13:06.don't even have access to free medical care. Things have become
:13:06. > :13:10.very, very bad indeed. To see that in a European city is extraordinary.
:13:10. > :13:13.My fear for Greece is that whatever path it takes now, whether it
:13:13. > :13:17.sticks with the euro and tries to make this austerity work or whether
:13:17. > :13:24.it goes back to the drachma and takes an entirely different path,
:13:24. > :13:29.either way it faces austerity? Either way, there is, because the
:13:29. > :13:32.country's basically bust, it faces austerity? Yes and there are some
:13:32. > :13:36.very tough choices that need to be made. But I think the problem is
:13:36. > :13:42.that there's no-one that they trust to lead them through this. I think
:13:42. > :13:52.if there was, I keep saying they need a Churchillesque figure that
:13:52. > :13:52.
:13:52. > :13:58.they can unite behind as much as Greeks can unite. Who is that?
:13:58. > :14:04.there is a Head of A coalition party and the parties have a
:14:04. > :14:09.tendency, in my mind they're like demeanted, they subdivide and then
:14:09. > :14:13.unite. If it was a Parliament, it would break up immediately? There's
:14:13. > :14:17.not a lot of trust. If there was one that people could trust, if
:14:17. > :14:21.they could see a laigt at the end of the tunnel, they would buckle
:14:21. > :14:25.down and stick with it -- light. They don't want to throw everything
:14:25. > :14:29.away and everyone wants to stay in Europe. Diane, it's that old
:14:29. > :14:39.American cliche, Greece is between a rock and a hard place? Whatever
:14:39. > :14:40.
:14:40. > :14:50.route it takes, it will be really The underlying problem is democracy.
:14:50. > :14:54.You are trying to impose austerity, almost Third World conditions, with
:14:54. > :14:58.a without a man day. The rock and the hard place are different, in
:14:58. > :15:03.that if you come out of the euro you have the chance of trading your
:15:03. > :15:08.way out of this difficulty, because you then get an exchange rate which
:15:08. > :15:12.makes you competitive to sell your goods and attract more tourists.
:15:12. > :15:20.What happens then is people's savings in euros are halved or
:15:20. > :15:22.decimated in value - we don't know. However, for most people who don't
:15:23. > :15:28.trade internationally it doesn't make any difference. What matters
:15:28. > :15:34.is what's the value of the money you have in your own country? How
:15:34. > :15:43.many beans does it buy, eggs or sugar. In a sense going to the
:15:43. > :15:47.drachma is attractive because of what you said. Most Greek banks and
:15:47. > :15:53.companies would go bust because they had borrowed in euros and
:15:53. > :16:00.wouldn't be able to pay it back. There would be a massive default.
:16:00. > :16:05.Greek has no export sector other than tourism. Thirdly, as you know,
:16:05. > :16:11.devaluation only works if once you have devalued you are really
:16:11. > :16:14.disciplined, you keep wages down, you don't let wages take off and
:16:14. > :16:18.you reform the supply-side of the economy. Discipline and reform
:16:18. > :16:26.haven't been hallmarks of Greece in modern times. I agree with the
:16:26. > :16:32.third point. But on your second point, Greece used to do
:16:32. > :16:36.internationally speaking than it does now. Many Greek people hate
:16:37. > :16:40.the idea of going back to the drama, because it associates it with
:16:40. > :16:45.failure. You have to recognise that this level of problem is new and it
:16:45. > :16:49.coincides with being in the euro It is very unfair to say this is about
:16:49. > :16:56.Greece. This is about the nature of the euro. And they want to stay
:16:56. > :17:01.part of it. The Germans never wanted to be in the euro with
:17:01. > :17:06.Mediterranean countries in the first place, because the economies
:17:06. > :17:13.never converged. Tragically for the Greeks it was always going be like
:17:13. > :17:19.this. The Greeks cheated with the help of figures from Goldman Sachs.
:17:19. > :17:29.Clearly having a single currency was going to be difficult. This is
:17:29. > :17:34.one of the difficulty we face. country is haemorrhaging money and
:17:34. > :17:41.people. Yes. And that's the real tragedy. It is. The country's
:17:41. > :17:46.resources are leaving, the best and the brightest. I'm here. Not that
:17:46. > :17:51.I'm calling myself the best - I'm just saying. We think you are.
:17:51. > :18:01.Thank you! Let's hone it gets better but it is hard to see how it
:18:01. > :18:03.
:18:03. > :18:09.is going to be. Don't head yet for the Grexit just yet as I'm picking
:18:09. > :18:16.up a valve eti smell of bon viveur, a pungent aroma of late night chat.
:18:16. > :18:21.It's a cheeky little number known as the rascal of the vineyards.
:18:21. > :18:28.Jilly Goolden is here to talk politics and alcohol. For those of
:18:28. > :18:35.you who couldn't tell your Chateau Lafite from a bottle of Buckfast,
:18:35. > :18:40.you are register your disgust via Facebook, or the interweb.
:18:40. > :18:45.Omnishambles - we like that word. Slightly overused these days but it
:18:45. > :18:49.does sum up so much of the what you see on this programme every
:18:49. > :18:54.Thursday. The Government promised to get on top of the omnishambles,
:18:54. > :18:57.the border controls at Heathrow. It only leaves the omnishambles of the
:18:57. > :19:07.euro, the economy, the police cuts and the local election results. We
:19:07. > :19:17.met one the New Statesman's Mehdi Hassan, fresh off the executive jet
:19:17. > :19:33.
:19:33. > :19:37.at Biggin Hill. Queues? We don't do Don't be fooled by the odd ray of
:19:37. > :19:41.sunshine. Dark storm clouds are gathering over the eurozone. The
:19:41. > :19:51.Continent's leaders are flying blind and no-one's sure whether the
:19:51. > :19:53.euro can even manage a crash- landing. Torrential rain was a
:19:53. > :19:58.rather fitting accompaniment to the inauguration of the new French
:19:58. > :20:03.President on Tuesday. But getting soaked on his first day in the job
:20:03. > :20:06.was the least of Monsieur Hollande's problems, such was the
:20:06. > :20:13.desperation of France's first socialist President in 17 years to
:20:13. > :20:19.have the belt-tightening Germans to sign off on his anti-austerity
:20:19. > :20:25.measures that he boarded a jet for Berlin, only to have it hit by a
:20:25. > :20:28.bolt of lightning. Back here in Blighty the Governor
:20:28. > :20:32.of the Bank of England says he doesn't know when the storm clouds
:20:32. > :20:37.will move away from the eurozone. Yesterday the bank cut its growth
:20:37. > :20:41.forecast for the UK economy, again. The euro area is tearing itself
:20:41. > :20:48.apart without any obvious solution. The idea we could reasonably hope
:20:48. > :20:53.to sail serseenly through this with inflation at -- serenely through
:20:53. > :20:59.this with inflation at 2% is unrealistic. Will Greece will
:20:59. > :21:04.forced out of the euro? Will Spain? Is the single currency on a flight
:21:04. > :21:09.to nowhere? It hirt to make up or it is looking at a potential break-
:21:09. > :21:12.up. That's the choice they have to make and it is a choice they cannot
:21:12. > :21:17.long put off. The Prime Minister and the Chancellor are in a bit of
:21:17. > :21:20.a bind. The euro crisis on the one hand gives them a shiny new excuse
:21:20. > :21:23.for their continuing failure to produce economic growth. But on the
:21:23. > :21:28.other hand they both know that a collapse in the eurozone would
:21:28. > :21:32.destroy any chance of a British economic recovery. And no recovery,
:21:32. > :21:36.no re-election. No wonder Ed Miliband seems to be enjoying
:21:36. > :21:43.himself so much these days. It is a shame he didn't see the French
:21:44. > :21:53.President three months ago when he was in the United Kingdom. But I'm
:21:54. > :21:55.
:21:55. > :22:02.sure, Mr Speaker, a text message and LOL will go down very well. Mr
:22:02. > :22:12.Speaker, Europe needs a proper growth plan which this Prime
:22:12. > :22:22.
:22:22. > :22:25.Minister has failed to argue for. Lots of love or laugh out loud, LOL,
:22:25. > :22:32.that's how Rebekah Brooks said the Prime Minister used to sign off his
:22:32. > :22:36.text messages to her. On Tuesday she was charged with conspiracy to
:22:36. > :22:40.pervert the course of justice. cannot express my anger enough that
:22:40. > :22:46.those closest to me have been dragged into this unfairly. One day
:22:46. > :22:51.the details of this case will emerge and people will see today as
:22:51. > :22:58.nothing more than an expensive sideshow, a waste of public money,
:22:58. > :23:08.as a result of an injust and weak decision.
:23:08. > :23:09.
:23:09. > :23:19.-- unjust and weak zifpblgts Meanwhile Ed Miliband -- unjust and
:23:19. > :23:19.
:23:19. > :23:24.weak decision. Meanwhile Ed Miliband was promoting Jon Cruddas
:23:24. > :23:29.and Andrew Adonis. Both former supporters of his brother. This is
:23:29. > :23:32.a Captain with total confidence in his crew. The Prime Minister didn't
:23:33. > :23:36.seem too pleased about it. What's the big decision that the Leader of
:23:36. > :23:43.the Opposition has taken this week? He took the person in charge of his
:23:43. > :23:47.policy review, the honourable Member for Hodge Hill, and replaced
:23:47. > :23:57.him with a policy chief who thinks Labour's problem is they are not
:23:57. > :24:09.
:24:09. > :24:13.It hasn't exactly been a great week for Home Secretary Theresa May
:24:13. > :24:18.either. First she was heckled by the police over yep, you've guessed
:24:18. > :24:23.it, cuts. Let's stop pretending the police are being picked on. Every
:24:23. > :24:30.part of the public sector is having to take its share of the pain.
:24:30. > :24:33.then she is handbaged by screen legend Joan Collins, who demanded
:24:33. > :24:38.via twit they are the Home Secretary sorts out the
:24:38. > :24:43.omnishambles that is Heathrow Airport's border controls. I must
:24:43. > :24:53.DM Joan to say there don't seem to be any queues around here. LOL. Is
:24:53. > :25:02.
:25:02. > :25:12.that the time? Yes Angela, I'm coming. I'm on my
:25:12. > :25:23.
:25:23. > :25:29.way. Lightning doesn't strike He's not been seen since! If you
:25:29. > :25:35.are watching, come back. Interesting what's happening isn't
:25:35. > :25:39.it? Mr Hollande hold in France has been elected on a supposedly anti-
:25:39. > :25:44.austerity package. We've been talking about the anti-austerity
:25:44. > :25:49.mood in Greece as well. There are other signs of it too, but the
:25:49. > :25:54.British Government sticks to its fiscal discipline. Is it on the
:25:54. > :25:59.wrong end of the tide of opinion? think the British circumstances are
:25:59. > :26:03.different. What we have to cling on to is our lower interest rates than
:26:03. > :26:09.most of the European countries who are doing as badly as we are. Spain
:26:09. > :26:14.and Italy, whose economies are no worse than the British economy, are
:26:14. > :26:18.paying 6-7% to borrow and we are paying 2% or less. That's the vital
:26:18. > :26:21.difference. Wet have the ability to print our own money and vary our
:26:21. > :26:26.interest rates and devalue our way out of trouble. Unfortunately this
:26:26. > :26:29.advantage isn't going to last forever. Since our economy is not
:26:29. > :26:34.growing and yet we are continuing to borrow 10% of our economy every
:26:34. > :26:37.year, our national debt is rising. At some point the market will say
:26:37. > :26:43.you may have an austerity programme but your national debt is much
:26:43. > :26:52.worse and your Irish yoes are much worse. But what the Government --
:26:52. > :26:56.ratios are much worse. The Government thinks if they showed
:26:56. > :27:06.for a moment they are going to abandon their programme the markets
:27:06. > :27:11.would punish us next day. On top of the incompetence the coalition is
:27:11. > :27:16.accused of... The key finding isn't that we are 14 points ahead but
:27:16. > :27:20.we've just begun to inch ahead on the economy. If if that trend
:27:20. > :27:28.continues, that's fatal. Major never recovered from crashing out
:27:28. > :27:32.of the ERM. A euro-type situation could do for them again.
:27:32. > :27:36.frustrating for David Cameron that Ed Balls is able to argue, in the
:27:36. > :27:40.absence of proof, that since we are able to borrow more cheaply why not
:27:40. > :27:45.borrow and put it all on infrastructure? And the Liberal
:27:45. > :27:50.Democrats believe this as much as the Conservatives, that that would
:27:50. > :27:53.bring disaster in the markets. may do but the problem the
:27:53. > :28:00.coalition faces, when the walk Bank of England said the economy was
:28:00. > :28:05.going to grow by 0.8% this year many people thought that was
:28:06. > :28:11.optimistic. If there is Armageddon in the eurozone it probably won't
:28:11. > :28:16.grow next year. Could be approaching the 2015 election and
:28:16. > :28:19.there is sill no sign of the sunny uplands that Mr Cameron used to
:28:19. > :28:24.talk about. That's the central assumption. The downside is much
:28:24. > :28:27.worse than that. And politically it becomes every man and woman for
:28:27. > :28:32.himself. You say the Liberal Democrats understand, but what they
:28:32. > :28:36.understand at the top is different from what people fighting for their
:28:36. > :28:44.seats. It may be in Labour's interest that things don't get too
:28:44. > :28:47.bad. If it really becomes a meltdown, if we are really in an
:28:47. > :28:51.incredible economic crisis people will think we are not that keen on
:28:51. > :29:01.the Tories but maybe stick with them when times are tough rather
:29:01. > :29:02.
:29:02. > :29:12.They might do, but Nadine Dorries' posh boy narrative is pushing
:29:12. > :29:12.
:29:12. > :29:16.through. The Blairites were saying Ed would have a bad... That's gone,
:29:16. > :29:21.they are a bunch of whingers anyway. There is no doubt he leads Labour
:29:21. > :29:26.into the next election. That's the important thing. In a way, the
:29:26. > :29:29.Thatcherite strategy which was make lots of unpopular decisions but get
:29:29. > :29:32.elected at the next election because people will think OK at
:29:32. > :29:36.least you are doing what you believe has to be done, that
:29:36. > :29:41.strategy is threatened by seven weeks in which the Government's
:29:41. > :29:44.looked pretty incompetent with lots of contradictory decisions and U-
:29:44. > :29:52.turns. But the coalition strategy at the
:29:52. > :29:56.moment looks as if it's up the proverbable creek without a paddle.
:29:56. > :30:02.0% of the cuts are still to come. That's the thing. That could come
:30:02. > :30:07.just as the eurozone is washing across the channel and knocking our
:30:07. > :30:11.economy down anyway -- 80% of the cuts are still to come. When you
:30:11. > :30:15.say there is nothing to show for the policy, the thing to show is
:30:15. > :30:19.invisible, I repeat it again, the fact that we are financing our debt
:30:19. > :30:24.at 2%. No, listen Michael it's a long time since you have been
:30:24. > :30:28.engaged in electoral politics. The elector couldn't give a stuff. What
:30:28. > :30:32.they are seeing is insecurity, a Government which lacks incompetent
:30:32. > :30:37.and things they care about, including their jobs and people
:30:37. > :30:41.they know whose jobs are being cut. They are not up on bond rates
:30:41. > :30:45.understand that but politicians in power have to take account of
:30:45. > :30:49.what's real. Not Lib Dem backbenchers, you mark my words and
:30:49. > :30:54.not Tory backbenchers who are worried about boundary changes and
:30:54. > :30:58.want to be able to secure their constituency by being a voice to
:30:58. > :31:03.their constituents irrespective of bond yields. When it comes to
:31:03. > :31:09.economy, what is the good news for the coalition? There is none.
:31:09. > :31:14.are not Michael We are not Spain, Italy, France or Greece. That's a
:31:14. > :31:21.really big point. And if the continent really goes down the
:31:21. > :31:25.chute, that could still resonate I suppose. There is a mini reshuffle.
:31:25. > :31:31.So small you wouldn't notice. Exactly. Two people are not
:31:31. > :31:36.household names outside their own households. Andrew Adonis and Jon
:31:36. > :31:40.Cruddas who are big supporters of David Miliband, I remember, so that
:31:40. > :31:45.shows a certain growing confidence for Ed? I think so. I think Ed is
:31:45. > :31:49.growing in confidence. Jon Cruddas is an interesting person, a
:31:49. > :31:54.supportive person of David Miliband, but he's close to unions. Andrew
:31:54. > :31:58.Adonis is a big time Blairite but he's very able. I have a lot of
:31:58. > :32:01.time for him. Very smart. Yes. Police Federation, the Home
:32:01. > :32:06.Secretary, not the first Home Secretary to get a bad time, but
:32:06. > :32:10.did the police overplay their hands? They certainly did. They got
:32:10. > :32:15.a bad press the next day. For people to behave in that way who're
:32:15. > :32:19.meant to be a disciplined force, by the way, just does look very bad.
:32:19. > :32:24.People aren't stupid about this, working people know that policemen
:32:24. > :32:31.have been retiring at 50. They know that vast numbers of police are on
:32:31. > :32:36.the "sick", that it's a badly managed force in that respect, that
:32:36. > :32:41.policemen who retire at aged 50 make off with pretty big pensions.
:32:41. > :32:46.The money devoted to policing does not my any means go exclusively to
:32:46. > :32:51.the frontline ah whole lot goes to pensions and sick pay and that's
:32:51. > :32:57.got to change. Should a Tory-led Government which faced riots in the
:32:57. > :32:59.major cities last summer and, we are saying maybe heading for even
:32:59. > :33:04.more difficult economic circumstances, do you really want a
:33:04. > :33:08.pick a fight with the police at this time? Governments have been
:33:09. > :33:13.ducking reform of the police for decades and Ken Clarke had a go at
:33:13. > :33:16.this many, many years ago. One day the police has got to be reformed.
:33:16. > :33:19.The best context in which to do that is the context in which
:33:19. > :33:24.everything else is being reformed as well pause of the new realities
:33:24. > :33:30.of public spending. It remained largely unreformed under Labour?
:33:30. > :33:34.What can I say? It does need a major jaefr haul. Just say yes? --
:33:34. > :33:37.overhaul. I know it sounds silly, but there's something distasteful
:33:37. > :33:41.about it when it's applyed to a woman minister, for some reason, do
:33:41. > :33:45.you know what I mean. That's why people thought they overplayed
:33:45. > :33:51.their hands. A brief question. Is it politically damaging to the
:33:51. > :33:55.Prime Minister that his old school mate and his best media mate have
:33:55. > :34:00.been charges, and I emphasise only charged with perverting the course
:34:00. > :34:06.of justice? Yes. There was a point made on Question Time just now
:34:06. > :34:10.which was that, you know, the Prime Minister had copied Blair
:34:10. > :34:13.absolutely in wanting to be very close, a different expression was
:34:13. > :34:18.used on Question Time, but to be very close to the Murdoch press, to
:34:18. > :34:22.suck up to them, you might say. I'm afraid that's coming back to haunt
:34:22. > :34:28.him. It's damaging and it will run and run. I'm glad you said that
:34:28. > :34:33.quickly. Very quickly. We like a Liebfraumilch or drei
:34:33. > :34:38.here on this week. When Diane Abbott turned her back on the
:34:38. > :34:44.bright lights of BBC's Tinsel Town, snatched from the This Week bosom
:34:44. > :34:49.by political talent spotting extraordinaire, Ed I am Miliband
:34:49. > :34:53.and promoted to the dizzy heights of junior Shadow Minister for
:34:53. > :34:57.Public Health, we were almost tempted to finish the bottle until
:34:57. > :35:03.Diane rang up and told us we were over our limit. Typical Labour
:35:03. > :35:13.killjoy. With public health and Nazis on the march, we decided it
:35:13. > :35:21.
:35:21. > :35:25.was probably time gentlemen to put Broken Britain or booze Britain?
:35:25. > :35:30.Scottish politicians are preparing to do something about it by making
:35:30. > :35:35.their country the first in the EU to introduce minimum pricing for
:35:35. > :35:38.alcohol at 50p per unit. Scotland suffers hugely from alcohol misuse,
:35:39. > :35:47.it takes its toll on individuals, families, communities, our Health
:35:47. > :35:50.Service, our Police Services, and this policy is designed to avoid
:35:51. > :35:56.alcohol related deaths. David Cameron thinks binge drinking is
:35:56. > :35:59.one of the scandals of our society. I'm not embarrassed about this. The
:35:59. > :36:03.Scots have gone for minimum unit pricing on alcohol. I think that's
:36:03. > :36:09.a good idea. Should politicians really dictate how much we drink?
:36:09. > :36:13.When MP Eric Joyce was found guilty of nutting another MP, in the House
:36:13. > :36:17.of Commons bar, it was a reminder that cheap booze isn't just an
:36:17. > :36:20.issue for the general public. think drink was an aggravating
:36:20. > :36:24.factor, there's no question about that, I have to deal with that
:36:24. > :36:28.personally, but not everyone who drinks gets involved in fights,
:36:28. > :36:33.certainly not when they are my age. Will minimum pricing stop people
:36:33. > :36:38.reaching for the second can of special brew, or is it just a
:36:38. > :36:47.policy that penalises the poor, rather than problem drinkers just
:36:47. > :36:53.as long as they keep their hands off our precious blue stuff.
:36:53. > :36:56.We had to get extra in because Diane's with us, it's obvious,
:36:56. > :37:00.isn't it?! Jilly Goolden, twock the programme. You like to encourage
:37:00. > :37:05.people to have a drink and good time. So do we, but does this
:37:05. > :37:10.country, the United Kingdom, have an alcohol problem? There's a very
:37:10. > :37:13.distinct difference between the sort of wines that I have been
:37:13. > :37:17.recommending which have intrinsic character, they have a delight on
:37:17. > :37:21.the taste buds, they smell delicious. Alcohol is just part of
:37:21. > :37:26.them. Put those against something which is just a vehicle for alcohol,
:37:26. > :37:30.something that is just alcohol at a cheap price, they're totally...
:37:30. > :37:33.Most can't afford to drink your wines, can they? They can. The sort
:37:33. > :37:37.of wines I'm talking about you could buy for under �5 and they
:37:37. > :37:41.would be quite nice. You can get wine for under �56? It might be
:37:41. > :37:47.astonishing to you, Andrew, but you can, and it's very drinkable.
:37:47. > :37:50.right. If you can get cheap wine and it's still pretty good, is the
:37:50. > :37:52.Scottish Government right to introduce the minimum price? We are
:37:53. > :37:57.not talking about wine, I mean there are things like you have
:37:57. > :38:03.probably never had one, a super strength cider. Do you know what,
:38:03. > :38:09.for only �3.20, you can buy a two litre bottle which is as many units
:38:09. > :38:13.as tiian and I could consume in a week. You have not met Diane! Be
:38:13. > :38:22.careful what you are saying there. Maybe in a day! Maybe not a week
:38:22. > :38:27.but a day. 15 units for �3.20. the posh folk can drink their
:38:28. > :38:31.little Chateauneuf and you are penlising the poor people --
:38:31. > :38:35.penalising the poor people? I don't think drinking alcohol is any
:38:36. > :38:40.better per say than main lining because you are using it as a drug.
:38:40. > :38:45.Alcohol should be part of something that's enjoyable and delicious.
:38:45. > :38:51.Meez don't tell me that a super strength cider is enjoyable, it
:38:51. > :38:54.isn't -- please. It tastes like vomit actually. It causes it too.
:38:54. > :38:58.Probably not what they say in the East End of Glasgow. Why are
:38:58. > :39:01.politicians so obsessed with penalising the poor when it comes
:39:01. > :39:05.to alcohol? It's not about that. The minimum price won't affect
:39:05. > :39:11.people that drink in pubs and clubs. The price is already above the
:39:12. > :39:17.minimum? Yes, and in fact people who run pubs are in faufr of it.
:39:17. > :39:22.It's targeting at ultra--cheap alcohol sold as a loss leader in
:39:22. > :39:27.supermarkets which problem drinkers drink in big quantities and
:39:27. > :39:30.youngsters before they even... get tanked up? Yes and they are
:39:30. > :39:35.vomiting within 20 minutes. And the supermarkets will make a lot more
:39:35. > :39:39.money? Well, yes, that is one of the by-products which is
:39:39. > :39:44.unfortunate. Maybe things you could do with duty, but if Alex Salmond
:39:44. > :39:51.brings it in in Scotland, we'll have to bring it in the same way
:39:51. > :39:54.here. An off-licence in Carlisle or Berwick, we'd make a fortune. David
:39:54. > :39:58.Cameron's talked kindly about this, we are probably going to get it in
:39:58. > :40:03.England as well. The nanny state lives? I think we have a huge
:40:03. > :40:05.problem with alcohol in this country but it seems to me
:40:05. > :40:09.fundamentally cultural. Most countries do not have the problem
:40:09. > :40:12.we have and probably their alcohol is cheaper than ours and more
:40:12. > :40:16.readily available. But there are pressures on people not to be
:40:17. > :40:19.publicly drunk. Now, I don't think you are going to simulate these
:40:19. > :40:23.pressures simply by increasing the minimum price of alcohol. So I'm
:40:23. > :40:27.not sure that I feel strongly about it either way. I feel convinced
:40:27. > :40:30.that it's not going to be the solution to the problem. I think
:40:30. > :40:34.Michael is right, there are cultural issues. Alcohol is hugely
:40:34. > :40:40.more available than when I was a child. You went to an off-licence
:40:40. > :40:44.or a pub. The pubs usually closed at 10 o'clock and respectable women
:40:44. > :40:48.didn't go into pubs. All the doctors and people like Jilly say
:40:48. > :40:51.you have to bring in a minimum price. The booze you were talking
:40:51. > :40:56.about, it's the downmarket cheap booze you were talking about, it's
:40:56. > :41:00.still going to be downmarket and it's still going to be cheap even
:41:00. > :41:05.after the minimum pricing? Will it really make a difference? It's not
:41:05. > :41:09.going to be nearly as cheap. The super strength ciders is 16p for
:41:09. > :41:13.100ml, that is going to have to go up at least three fold. It's going
:41:13. > :41:17.to become a bit more of a dent in your pocket to get hold of it.
:41:17. > :41:23.Let's put you to the test we have a quiz. Three glasses of wine in font.
:41:23. > :41:27.I won't ask you what the wine is, I am simply going to ask you to tell
:41:27. > :41:34.me what the country is. Glass A? They are from Europe aren't they
:41:34. > :41:44.I'm not telling you that. I thought I'd heard that. The first one? You
:41:44. > :41:46.
:41:46. > :41:56.are the expert, you answer? 'S -- That's from France. The inside of a
:41:56. > :42:01.car battery. France. You got that right. B? Germany. Tell me the
:42:01. > :42:05.country? Germany because it's sweet. Again it's really not a very good
:42:05. > :42:10.example of wine but it is from Germany. It is indeed. Well done.
:42:10. > :42:14.It's actually Blue Nun. It was very sweet.
:42:14. > :42:24.It only relaunched because we reinvented it here and not a penny
:42:24. > :42:28.
:42:28. > :42:33.have we seen. Right, C? Espana. would know - Spanish. You are just
:42:33. > :42:37.going with the crowd Diane. Such a copy cat. It's the nicest of the
:42:37. > :42:41.three by far. Yes, I would go with Spain. I think toppically it should
:42:41. > :42:48.be Greek but I don't think it is. You should have stuck with Greek
:42:48. > :42:53.because it's Greek. There you go! trued you, Michael. Never trust
:42:53. > :42:58.pill Portillo. His knowledge of wines and you end up being wrong!
:42:58. > :43:02.It's the nicest one anyway. Something good about Greece tonight,
:43:02. > :43:08.that is your lot for tonight in fact but not for us. The Shadow
:43:08. > :43:12.frontbench night at Annabels, they lay the Shandys on especially.
:43:12. > :43:17.Diane's promised Liam Byrne, the man stripped this week of his
:43:17. > :43:22.policy role, one last dance before he gets to swim with the fishes. We