:00:22. > :00:25.Tonight, This Week is at the races: We've put on our top hats and our
:00:25. > :00:28.Royal Procession is ready. Is the UK's leading thoroughbred, David
:00:28. > :00:38.Cameron, taking a big political gamble by attacking comic Jimmy
:00:38. > :00:38.
:00:38. > :00:42.Carr over his tax arrangements? is taking that money and stuffing
:00:42. > :00:46.it into somewhere where he does not have to pay tax. That is not fair.
:00:46. > :00:53.It is not right. Pantomime horse and comic, Jim
:00:53. > :00:58.Davidson, takes to the stage. have had enough of the hypocrisy.
:00:58. > :01:00.Come on, who wants to pay more tax than they need to?
:01:00. > :01:03.In Mexico, the world's most powerful leaders are jockeying for
:01:04. > :01:11.position, but are they any closer to solving the eurozone crisis?
:01:12. > :01:14.Commentator Mary Ann Sieghart, relaxes by the pool. No dress code
:01:14. > :01:18.here in Sunni Mexico, but still people are getting hot under the
:01:18. > :01:21.collar. And as Royal Ascot introduces a
:01:21. > :01:29.more draconian dress code, are women feeling the pressure to look
:01:29. > :01:33.good? Model Caprice is studying the form. It's a good job for Andrew
:01:33. > :01:39.and Michael that beauty is in the eyes of the best older!
:01:39. > :01:42.Get ready. We're under starters orders.
:01:42. > :01:46.Evenin' all, welcome to This Week, bringing up the political rear, as
:01:46. > :01:49.per usual, with our beach-side G20 special, unlike the rest of the
:01:49. > :01:53.Westminster press pack, who this week jumped right to the front of
:01:53. > :01:55.the queue and jetted off with the Prime Minister on a mini-break to
:01:55. > :01:58.Mexico, where desperate leaders of the world's largest economies
:01:58. > :02:01.gathered to agree a coordinated response to the Jimmy Carr tax
:02:01. > :02:04.avoidance crisis that's threatening to plunge our economy into a
:02:04. > :02:12.triple-dip recession, bring the eurozone to its knees and prevent
:02:12. > :02:15.the recommissioning of 10 O'Clock Live. As the world looked on
:02:15. > :02:19.helplessly at this time of great peril, cometh the hour, cometh the
:02:19. > :02:22.Call-Me-Dave. Despite, just like the fate of the eurozone, it being
:02:22. > :02:26.technically none of his goddamn business, our brave Prime Minister
:02:26. > :02:28.cast all diplomatic niceties aside and broke off from the high level
:02:28. > :02:31.negotiations to issue an urgent summit communique, branding the
:02:31. > :02:39.hapless Mr Carr a "morally wrong" individual, who he never found
:02:39. > :02:43.funny in the first place. So there! All the way to Mexico, just to have
:02:43. > :02:45.a pop at a stand-up comedian. Now that's statesmanship! We await a
:02:45. > :02:50.similar denunciation of the Conservative-voting, Cameron-
:02:51. > :02:55.supporting, OBE-wearing Gary Barlow. But we're not exactly holding our
:02:55. > :02:58.breath. Speaking of those who have their priorities all wrong, I'm
:02:58. > :03:01.joined on the sofa tonight by two of Westminster's most laughable
:03:01. > :03:04.individuals, the Jimmy Carr Trouble and Jimmy Carr Crash of late night
:03:04. > :03:14.political chat. I speak, of course, of #manontheleft, Alan "AJ" Johnson,
:03:14. > :03:17.
:03:18. > :03:22.and #sadmanonatrain Michael "choo choo" Portillo.
:03:22. > :03:27.Welcome to you both. Your moment of the week. I think the Greek
:03:27. > :03:31.election result. The reason it is my moment is that there was a fear
:03:31. > :03:35.that the anti- austerity parties would win. Actually, I think
:03:35. > :03:39.something worse happened, which was that the pro austerity parties have
:03:39. > :03:43.won. The reason that is worse is that it would have been useful to
:03:44. > :03:47.have a situation where Greece had to be edged out of the euro. We
:03:47. > :03:51.need an experiment where somebody leaves the euro. Because all of
:03:51. > :03:55.these countries cannot go on being in it. They are unsuited for the
:03:55. > :03:58.purpose. I think with a tiny economy like Greece, if we could
:03:58. > :04:03.have edged it out, we could have learnt a lot about that. The
:04:03. > :04:07.Germans would have been happy to try this as an experiment. And now
:04:07. > :04:13.the Germans have to grin and bear it and keep them in. For now, but
:04:13. > :04:17.it is not over yet. Moment of the week, of the month, of the year, I
:04:17. > :04:26.was in Westminster Hall this afternoon for Aung San Suu Kyi, and
:04:26. > :04:29.I have a crush on the woman. She was just amazing. She quoted, say
:04:29. > :04:33.not the struggle. She spoke about her time - this was a woman who
:04:33. > :04:39.went home to look after her sick mother and was 20 years
:04:39. > :04:46.incarcerated under house arrest. So magnanimous, so gentle, so strong.
:04:46. > :04:49.No bitterness. Just like Nelson Mandela. It is that special quality,
:04:50. > :04:55.but I think if anyone tries to intellectualise their apathy about
:04:55. > :04:59.not voting in this country, I think I will give them short shrift.
:04:59. > :05:04.Listening to her, battling just for the right to vote and for freedom
:05:04. > :05:07.of speech, was memorable. Great parliamentary occasion.
:05:07. > :05:10.Now, Jimmy Carr's tax affairs have been subjected to mass disapproval
:05:10. > :05:13.over the past few days, an experience we're more than familiar
:05:14. > :05:17.with here on This Week. It was revealed that he's used an offshore
:05:17. > :05:20.tax scheme to avoid paying hundreds of thousands of pounds to Her
:05:20. > :05:22.Majesty's Revenue and Customs. Today Mr Carr issued a fashionably
:05:22. > :05:27.grovelling Twitter apology, but fellow stand-up comedian Jim
:05:27. > :05:37.Davidson thinks he's done nothing to say sorry about. So we asked him
:05:37. > :05:41.
:05:41. > :05:45.to step up to the mike and give us his Take of the week.
:05:45. > :05:52.Ladies and gentlemen, a warm welcome if you please, for the one,
:05:52. > :05:59.the only, Jim Davidson. Someone said, what's the difference between
:05:59. > :06:02.a taxman and a terrorist? You can negotiate with a terrorist!
:06:02. > :06:07.People say that tax avoidance is no laughing matter. Jimmy Carr is now
:06:07. > :06:12.in a lot of trouble. He was until he surrendered today. I don't know
:06:12. > :06:15.why he surrendered. What a cow would you are. Obviously no room in
:06:15. > :06:21.the Ecuador embassy for both of you. Who would have thought we would
:06:21. > :06:27.have something in common - tax. I never tried to avoid paying tax, I
:06:27. > :06:31.just ran out of money when it came to paying the bill! Here is the
:06:31. > :06:34.thing, and I will use Jimmy and me as an example again, if you
:06:34. > :06:39.suddenly find yourself a very rich with lots of money, what are you
:06:39. > :06:45.going to do with it? You go to an accountant or a tax adviser and you
:06:45. > :06:49.take advice. If you are sick, you go to a doctor. Perhaps not today!
:06:49. > :06:54.You take their advice in good faith and act upon it. If it is not be
:06:55. > :07:00.legal, who would not do that? I spoke to Jimmy Carr the other day.
:07:00. > :07:03.I said, had a great tour which got �3 million, and after tax, 3
:07:03. > :07:08.million. The fact of the matter is, 1% of
:07:08. > :07:13.Jimmy Carr's earnings is more than most people pay in tax anyway. So
:07:13. > :07:16.he saves a little bit for his future. What is wrong with that?
:07:16. > :07:21.The Government has called aggressive tax avoidance morally
:07:21. > :07:24.repugnant. Big words for me. What I think is morally repugnant is the
:07:24. > :07:28.fact that the Government, a Conservative lead Government take
:07:28. > :07:34.nearly half your income, even more when national insurance is taken
:07:34. > :07:38.into account. If they want to stop tax avoiders, close the loopholes.
:07:38. > :07:43.Some would say that the Government are a bunch of hypocrites. First,
:07:43. > :07:46.the Prime Minister has a go at Jimmy Carr and "people like him"
:07:46. > :07:49.for tax avoidance, and then he rolls out the red carpet for the
:07:49. > :07:54.French to come here and avoid paying their taxes. Something is
:07:54. > :07:58.not right. The French of all people! You know what I think,
:07:58. > :08:04.wouldn't it be simpler if we all paid the same rate of tax? After
:08:04. > :08:10.all, a percentage is a percentage. Simple. Jimmy, don't worry, I am
:08:11. > :08:15.sure you will get your OBE. My one stands for one bankruptcy is enough.
:08:15. > :08:25.What do a pelican and the taxman have in common? They can both shove
:08:25. > :08:26.
:08:26. > :08:34.their bills up their... Jim Davidson at a Comedy Store in
:08:34. > :08:39.the West End of London. Welcome to our comedy club. The biggest crowd
:08:39. > :08:42.I have ever had. It is good to have a real comedian on. Many hard-
:08:42. > :08:49.working people watching will say that they find your views morally
:08:49. > :08:56.objectionable. If you are rich, you should pay your fair share. What is
:08:56. > :09:02.fair? A percentage is a percentage. If he is paying 1% when a nurse...
:09:02. > :09:08.That is not fair. Everyone brings up nurses. It is like they say, it
:09:08. > :09:16.tastes like chicken, or as big as Wales. Wales is not a country.
:09:16. > :09:21.Let's say a train driver. Jimmy Carr loses 40% of his income. That
:09:21. > :09:25.is not fair. He would not need to do that. If we paid the same amount,
:09:25. > :09:29.he would not be to find these ridiculous schemes. That is the way
:09:29. > :09:33.to stop these schemes. Let's all pay the same. Everybody wants to
:09:33. > :09:38.pay tax, because you get a vote and everyone is proud of their country,
:09:38. > :09:44.most sensible people. There are always people that want to opt out.
:09:44. > :09:54.This is no defence of Jimmy Carr. He is only paying 1%. The but why
:09:54. > :09:55.
:09:55. > :09:58.is he paying 1%? People say that 50% is too much. If everybody paid
:09:58. > :10:08.the same, would we bother with these fly-by-night people? Would
:10:08. > :10:09.
:10:09. > :10:16.you not rather have 25% of Jimmy Carr's money than 1%? Yes, I would.
:10:16. > :10:21.It is not illegal, what was done. Does your conscience not say that
:10:21. > :10:26.you should pay more tax than that? But who wants to pay more than your
:10:26. > :10:30.financial adviser says? You go to a financial adviser and you say, what
:10:30. > :10:34.do I do with this? Why don't the Government just say, how much have
:10:35. > :10:44.you got, give us that? You go to an accountant whose us, we will do
:10:44. > :10:47.this. Is It Legal? Yes. This is doubly morally repugnant. Somebody
:10:47. > :10:51.like Jimmy Carr, somebody like you, knows perfectly well that you
:10:51. > :10:58.should be paying a large proportion of your income in tax. We should
:10:58. > :11:08.pay the same as anybody else. Nobody else pays 1%. A percentage
:11:08. > :11:15.
:11:15. > :11:19.of your tax. That is not what is happening. The differences that
:11:19. > :11:24.Jimmy Carr paid 1% and if I understood what he has just said,
:11:24. > :11:28.he paid 0% because he left the country. But it is morally
:11:28. > :11:32.repugnant to pay no tax. Secondly, the Government set up schemes to
:11:32. > :11:37.help the film industry, to help the arts, for Pete's sake. People like
:11:37. > :11:43.Jimmy Carr have taken advantage of those schemes to avoid tax. It is
:11:43. > :11:48.doubly repugnant. Did he set it up to do that? All I can do is take
:11:48. > :11:51.his word, and he's as it was a terrible error of judgment. Even
:11:52. > :11:56.someone on a more modest salary, if they went to their accountant and
:11:56. > :12:00.the accountant came up with a way and said, I have a way of reducing
:12:00. > :12:06.your tax that is entirely legal, the scheme has been before HMRC.
:12:06. > :12:13.Most people would say, yes. problem is that Jimmy Carr is a
:12:13. > :12:19.satirist. And that is the problem. But there is an issue about, don't
:12:19. > :12:24.pick on him and make him the fall guy for this, which David Cameron
:12:24. > :12:30.did, and was a big mistake. It was a mistake for the Prime Minister to
:12:30. > :12:33.spot light and comment on Jimmy Carr? It was a huge mistake. We
:12:33. > :12:36.have Ed Miliband now being statesmanlike about this, saying
:12:36. > :12:42.that politicians should not lecture. If there is a loophole, they have
:12:42. > :12:46.to deal with the loophole. If you look at the issue of MPs' expenses,
:12:46. > :12:51.it was all very legal. David Cameron claimed to have the
:12:51. > :12:56.wisteria cut from around his stream and had to pay the money back. I
:12:56. > :13:01.see no difference in terms of the morality. Was it a mistake for the
:13:01. > :13:04.Prime Minister to comment on Jimmy Carr? I think he may well regret it.
:13:04. > :13:08.They will now go after every Conservative donor and find out
:13:08. > :13:12.about their tax affairs. But it may not have been a mistake because you
:13:12. > :13:16.have to advance on two fronts. You have to make sure that the law
:13:16. > :13:20.prevents bad practice, but you also have to stigmatise bad behaviour.
:13:20. > :13:24.Because we know that the law will never get in advance of clever
:13:24. > :13:28.lawyers and accountants, who will be able to avoid tax. The law is
:13:28. > :13:34.not sufficient. You also have to declare that this kind of behaviour,
:13:34. > :13:39.even though it is legal and lawful, is immoral. How do you stop it? You
:13:39. > :13:42.stop it by saying that we should all pay the same percentage. I do
:13:42. > :13:50.not think Jimmy Carr would do it again because he has been
:13:50. > :13:54.stigmatised. If an accountant says to you, Michael, I have a way that
:13:54. > :13:58.is perfectly legal, has been approved by HMRC and will save you
:13:58. > :14:08.tens of thousands of pounds in tax compared to what you pay now, are
:14:08. > :14:08.
:14:08. > :14:17.you saying you would say No? In my own case, absolutely. Why?
:14:17. > :14:26.Because... Because you would be found out. That is the problem.
:14:26. > :14:30.do invest in an ISA. That is tax free. That is a vehicle the
:14:30. > :14:34.Government provides. That is a not -- that is not a proper example.
:14:34. > :14:39.There are two cases. One is when your accountant says, I can find a
:14:39. > :14:42.way where you will end up paying 10% less tax. It is completely
:14:42. > :14:51.different where you say, we will put the money into some investment
:14:51. > :14:56.The part of the problem which Jim is alluding to is this, that the
:14:56. > :15:00.tax code is now so complicated. It doubled in size under Gordon Brown.
:15:00. > :15:05.It has got so many loopholes in it now and it's getting bigger under
:15:05. > :15:09.this Government, despite the promises of tax simplification. The
:15:09. > :15:16.more complicated it gets, the more rich people can go to very smart
:15:16. > :15:26.accountants who find loopholes. At the moment the Government finds one
:15:26. > :15:29.loophole and they will find another. It is not a justification for it. I
:15:29. > :15:34.think Michael, you are almost looking askance at him because he
:15:34. > :15:39.says if you earn a lot of money you caught to pay the right level of
:15:39. > :15:45.tax. And you shouldn't find these scams. Jimmy Carr, if he spent five
:15:45. > :15:53.minutes finding out what K2 was about he would find it a scafplt
:15:53. > :15:59.you put your money over there and they -- find it is a scam. You put
:15:59. > :16:04.your money over there and they lend you the money back. It's a fair
:16:04. > :16:08.point. The politicians, instead of moralising and picking on one
:16:08. > :16:14.individual, as David Cameron has done, all to close those loopholes.
:16:14. > :16:20.It's not a fair point. Politicians have responded to people who say
:16:20. > :16:26.let's encourage the film industry, let's encourage the theatre.
:16:26. > :16:31.Mentioning Jimmy Carr was a bit populist. No, art galleries. When
:16:31. > :16:36.they say put your money into these things and we will Lewis your tax
:16:36. > :16:42.bill, but then people abuse the system. That's appalling. Maybe
:16:42. > :16:45.politicians shouldn't be given tax breaks for their latest hobbies.
:16:45. > :16:49.You are absolutely right. The ultimate result of this will be
:16:49. > :16:53.that politicians will not be able to do things to promote things that
:16:53. > :17:00.they think are in the public interest. The Prime Minister's
:17:00. > :17:06.picked on Mr Carr, not on Mr Barlow. Are we in any doubt the Prime
:17:06. > :17:10.Minister's family who has gone through the most sophisticated
:17:10. > :17:15.inheritance tax planning? Are we in any doubt that Mr Cameron's father
:17:15. > :17:19.was involved in planning? There was one on Channel 4 News tonight on
:17:19. > :17:24.schemes that were designed to avoid taxes. Do you know, look, I don't
:17:24. > :17:28.know the details of the Cameron family taxes. It seems very
:17:28. > :17:33.dangerous. Well, I admit it's dangerous but I do believe we are
:17:33. > :17:37.talking about completely different things. I don't believe that people
:17:37. > :17:43.who plan inheritance sensibly so that they take advantage of their
:17:43. > :17:49.allowances there are on the same scale as those who avoid paying any
:17:49. > :17:53.tax at all by using schemes that have nothing to do with their
:17:53. > :18:01.schemes. I didn't need a find a scheme, as I've been married so
:18:01. > :18:06.many times I didn't have any money to pay. Should Mr Barlow be made to
:18:06. > :18:13.give back his OBE? The Prime Minister's been asked about Gary
:18:13. > :18:19.Barlow and he wants to move on. don't think he has the same
:18:19. > :18:23.accountant as Jimmy Carr do you? lips are sealed, guv. I think Jimmy
:18:23. > :18:31.Carr will be over the Moon that he's on the fronts page of the
:18:31. > :18:35.papers. I wouldn't like to be doing his next stand-up routine, although
:18:35. > :18:43.yours tonight was excellent. Good to see you.
:18:43. > :18:48.It may be late, too late to join the K2 tax avoidance scheme. Damn
:18:48. > :18:53.you Jimmy Carr! Caprice will be talking about the politics of
:18:53. > :19:03.beauty. For those who prefer much uglier rumours you can always show
:19:03. > :19:06.us your worst side on the Twitter, Looking interweb
:19:06. > :19:09.Site. Now back to the G20, and things are
:19:09. > :19:13.really hotting up down there! Come on, let's crack on with the show so
:19:13. > :19:15.Michael can whip on his leopard print Speedos and get down to the
:19:15. > :19:18.pool. Yes, this is the austerity- busting view that the Prime
:19:18. > :19:22.Minister's spin doctor didn't want him to be interviewed in front of
:19:22. > :19:28.and instead started snapping hacks sitting around the pool! Here's
:19:28. > :19:38.Senorita Mary Ann Sieghart with her poolside round-up from Los Cabos.
:19:38. > :19:51.
:19:51. > :19:55.Viva Los Cabos and welcome to sunny Mexico. Yes, this is the side of
:19:55. > :20:05.the G20 summit that Number Ten didn't want you to see. Nap away,
:20:05. > :20:13.
:20:13. > :20:18.Mr Cameron. I don't care who knows. It is odd people getting worked up
:20:18. > :20:22.about a bit of sun, sand and sea in Mexico when it's the rain in Spain
:20:22. > :20:26.and Greece that's getting people round here hot under the collar.
:20:26. > :20:33.Earlier this week the Greeks swore in their new PM while the British
:20:33. > :20:37.and Americans started getting pretty vocal for the need to for
:20:37. > :20:43.the Continentals to get their act together. The world is concerned
:20:43. > :20:47.about the slowing of growth that has taken place. A lot of attention
:20:47. > :20:56.has been centred on Europe. Now is the time, as we've discussed, to
:20:56. > :20:59.make sure that all of us join to do what's necessary to stabilise the
:20:59. > :21:03.world financial system. But like all family holidays everyone is
:21:03. > :21:10.getting on each other's nerves. The Greeks and the Germans can't agree
:21:10. > :21:15.on who is to pay for it. The French want to shell out more at the bar,
:21:15. > :21:21.not less, and everyone is fed one the Brits for trying to bag the
:21:22. > :21:27.best place by the pool. This crisis was originated in North America, we
:21:27. > :21:31.are not coming here to receive lessons from nobody. In fact it's
:21:31. > :21:37.been tequila slammers all round this week. David Cameron must have
:21:37. > :21:41.been thought he was served a writ when the Argentinian Prime Minister,
:21:41. > :21:50.Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, tried to stuff an envelope into his
:21:50. > :21:53.hands with the word mall vin nas into his hands -- Malvinas. I wants
:21:53. > :21:58.to make it clear that the people of the Falkland Islands have decided
:21:58. > :22:01.to hold a referendum about their future. If she believes in
:22:01. > :22:04.democracy, in self determination, she should respect the outcome of
:22:04. > :22:14.that referendum. I thought it was important to make that point and I
:22:14. > :22:15.
:22:15. > :22:19.made that point with some vigour. The Prime Minister's not the only
:22:19. > :22:23.man who has been jetting off to sun-soaked resorts. Nick Clegg's
:22:23. > :22:30.been down the road in rye yo with the west rest of the world's
:22:30. > :22:35.leaders, or the ones not in Mexico, who've flown thousands of miles to
:22:35. > :22:39.combat climate change. Although Nick Clegg is getting worked up
:22:39. > :22:43.with Michael Gove's plans to scrap GCSEs at home. This is not a policy
:22:43. > :22:46.we agreed in the coalition Government. But on the exams system,
:22:47. > :22:51.we need to make sure that we constantly improve the exams system
:22:51. > :22:57.that so that it is rigorous and stretching. But we need to design
:22:57. > :23:00.an exams system for the future, not turn the clock back to the past.
:23:00. > :23:04.is iron take the man left holding the fort here is Foreign Secretary
:23:04. > :23:14.William Hague, who was left to answer questions about today's
:23:14. > :23:15.
:23:15. > :23:21.doctors strike. My God, there's my The Prime Minister once told us he
:23:21. > :23:31.could sum up his priority in three letters - NHS. Isn't it more like
:23:31. > :23:31.
:23:31. > :23:36.LOL? It obviously took a long time to think of that one! I have set
:23:36. > :23:41.out the achievements of the Government on the NHS, even the
:23:41. > :23:46.King's Fund in its latest report, which has sometimes been quoted by
:23:46. > :23:50.the opposition, say there is no evidence of a decline in service
:23:50. > :23:54.quality or performance. William Hague waited 15 years or you could
:23:54. > :23:59.say a lifetime to stand in for the Prime Minister at PMQs. He
:23:59. > :24:05.certainly relished it, as did Tory MPs behind him, who displayed a
:24:05. > :24:08.certain whistfulness for what might have been. There's a lots of dis
:24:08. > :24:13.satisfaction among Tory backbenchers, because they don't
:24:13. > :24:17.trust Cameron, and they trust their coalition partners a lot less.
:24:17. > :24:24.Given the appalling behaviour of Liberal Democrats Cabinet members
:24:24. > :24:31.in not supporting the Secretary of State for culture, media and sport,
:24:31. > :24:34.would my preferred Deputy Prime Minister arrange a divorce from the
:24:34. > :24:41.Yellow Peril so that we can govern with Conservative policies as a
:24:41. > :24:46.minority Government? There was one person this week who
:24:46. > :24:49.managed to look effortlessly exotic without raising any hackles here.
:24:49. > :24:54.Aung San Suu Kyi showed our fractious politicians that
:24:54. > :24:59.sometimes to get yourself heard you don't always have to shout the
:24:59. > :25:03.loudest. So many hills remain to be climbed, chasms to be briged,
:25:03. > :25:08.obstacles to be bridged. Our own determination can get us so far.
:25:08. > :25:12.The support of the people of Britain and of people's s around
:25:13. > :25:17.the world can get us so much further.
:25:17. > :25:25.Dignity, selflessness, courage, patience, why can't we have
:25:25. > :25:34.politicians like that? Mary Ann Sieghart and Mariachi
:25:34. > :25:41.Mexeteca, all the way from Los Cabos. In Hampton. You didn't think
:25:41. > :25:45.we could afford to go to Mexico; Is Michael Gove right to want to
:25:45. > :25:50.return to a more rigorous exam system? This was a leaked document.
:25:50. > :25:54.I didn't hear what Michael said in Parliament. If it is something that
:25:54. > :26:00.smacks of the 1950s Michael will be after it. The education leaving age
:26:00. > :26:07.goes up next year to 17. Two years to 18. It was policy I introduced
:26:07. > :26:12.when I was Education Secretary. But the GCSEs is almost like a school
:26:12. > :26:17.leaving exam. We wanted kids to stay on at school after 16 and they
:26:17. > :26:23.left in droves. Now that the education leaving age is going up,
:26:23. > :26:27.and I agree with Ken baker on this, there's a case for having some kind
:26:27. > :26:32.of testing at 14 rather than this 16, which was there because that
:26:32. > :26:36.was the school leaving age. If that's part of his plan here, I
:26:36. > :26:41.would be very interested in it. If it is just the rigour of the 1950s,
:26:41. > :26:46.which wasn't that successful be you look at the research from the NFER,
:26:46. > :26:54.then I don't think it will take us forward. It has certainly created a
:26:54. > :26:59.bust-up with the Liberal Democrats. People want to see more rigour in
:26:59. > :27:04.our exam system. I don't think rigour should be associated with
:27:04. > :27:08.the 1950s. But people are worried that there'll be one exam and
:27:08. > :27:12.poorer kids will is it that and the more rigorous one will be the more
:27:12. > :27:16.middle class exam. I think the world does divide into several tier
:27:16. > :27:22.es. I think the way in which we pretended we can have a one-tier
:27:22. > :27:24.system in education has been a part of our problem. We have
:27:25. > :27:28.comprehensivised education so we probably haven't done the best by
:27:28. > :27:32.the people who are most challenged in education and we haven't done
:27:32. > :27:37.the best by those people who could excel in education. One size
:27:37. > :27:42.doesn't fit all. It has the potential to be an omnishambles,
:27:42. > :27:46.because it got out in a newspaper. Mr Gove was summoned to the House
:27:46. > :27:52.to make a statement, which he had to do and give away more I think
:27:52. > :28:01.than he wanted to at this stage. And Mr Clegg pops up from Rio to
:28:01. > :28:05.say, "I don't know anything about this." It was extraordinary. A Lib
:28:05. > :28:09.Dem junior Minister, in that department, that they haven't been
:28:09. > :28:13.discussing this as a coalition. got out because Michael Government
:28:13. > :28:22.had lunch with Simon Heffer, of the Mail, and told him what he was
:28:22. > :28:27.planning to do. No such thing as a free lunch. I think it was a Con's
:28:27. > :28:32.cock-up. I know it doesn't need legislation. The Home Secretary
:28:32. > :28:35.said you couldn't have such a major change without parliamentary
:28:35. > :28:40.approval. You have to say that anything that's announced by the
:28:40. > :28:45.Government may not get through. I think the chances of it getting
:28:45. > :28:50.through must be 30%. If Labour was to put down a motion saying we
:28:50. > :28:54.don't want this to happen, the question twheen be what do the Lib
:28:54. > :29:00.Dems do? If they just abstain it gets through. They have to vote
:29:00. > :29:05.against it. I'm not thinking about votes but what will happen with
:29:05. > :29:10.mature consideration. One thing after another gets announced and
:29:11. > :29:17.then U-turned and it disappears. Mr Gove looking like leadership
:29:17. > :29:23.material? Great for the Labour Party. Do you think he will be the
:29:23. > :29:27.Ed Miliband of the party? I don't think that would work. He doesn't
:29:27. > :29:37.have broad appeal but he knows what he is about and what he wants.
:29:37. > :29:42.
:29:42. > :29:46.He must be ahead of George Osborne in the leadership popularity stakes.
:29:46. > :29:54.I do not think they George wants it, whereas Michael Gove is a serious
:29:54. > :30:02.candidate for the future. I think Michael Gove is the only one still
:30:02. > :30:07.standing. The industrial action by doctors, did you back it? I have
:30:07. > :30:15.said this before, I think trade unions are entitled to try to
:30:15. > :30:20.defend their pension rights. I also think... Is that yes? Yes, in the
:30:20. > :30:23.sense that I do not take the view that U2, the Daily Mail,
:30:23. > :30:30.practically all of the press, shock, horror, somebody has taken
:30:30. > :30:36.industrial action. I could see it in your eyes. We were just waiting
:30:36. > :30:39.for you to drown him. The floundering was going on and on.
:30:39. > :30:46.is interesting that Labour is supporting people who go on strike
:30:46. > :30:52.with average pensions of �68,000 a year. I did not say Labour, said I
:30:52. > :30:59.was. It was hard to see what the point was. Nothing happened. Move
:30:59. > :31:03.on. It was pointless. Frankly, it has brought a lot of obloquy on the
:31:03. > :31:07.doctors, which is a shame, because they do terrific things and most of
:31:07. > :31:10.them would not do anything to harm patients. I do not think it has.
:31:10. > :31:15.There is this argument that the British are against anyone who
:31:15. > :31:18.takes industrial action. I am not so sure. I also am not sure that
:31:18. > :31:22.the British people do not understand it doctors are saying,
:31:22. > :31:28.we reached a deal on pensions. One of the reasons why the cost to
:31:28. > :31:32.public pensions is going down is because it save the Exchequer �13
:31:32. > :31:38.billion. They are putting increased contributions in, and they have a
:31:38. > :31:42.deal that if anything unforeseen comes in, to exceed the cost, it
:31:42. > :31:46.comes entirely from member contributions. There is a
:31:46. > :31:50.negotiation going on. Industrial action - you should be proud of the
:31:50. > :31:54.legislation introduced in the 1980s because a ballot for industrial
:31:54. > :31:57.action has to take place. A union that has got a certain point in
:31:58. > :32:03.negotiations but cannot get any further, really the next stage is
:32:03. > :32:08.to have an industrial action ballot. It is part of the democracy that
:32:08. > :32:10.Aung San Suu Kyi is trying to introduce into Burma. You should be
:32:11. > :32:15.ashamed of the GP contract you introduced that enabled them to
:32:15. > :32:20.spend less time with patients, get more money, and now they have
:32:20. > :32:24.pensions which up 80% financed by public sector. The most significant
:32:24. > :32:26.thing is that Alan has gone from trying to avoid answering the
:32:26. > :32:35.question to becoming an articulate spokesman for the case of the
:32:35. > :32:38.doctors, almost in the course of two minutes in a TV studio. We have
:32:38. > :32:42.had the new Prime Minister in Greece, as you were saying at the
:32:42. > :32:46.head of the show. We had the G20 in Mexico and a statement there.
:32:46. > :32:53.Surprise, surprise, they kicked the issue into the next summit of the
:32:53. > :32:56.European Union next week. Are we closer to a resolution? No, because
:32:56. > :33:01.the Euro was fundamentally flawed. It is not about one fixer or
:33:01. > :33:05.another, 100 billion here or there, but about the thing not working. It
:33:05. > :33:09.is about trying to put together economies which are quite different,
:33:09. > :33:14.at different stages of development with different capabilities all
:33:14. > :33:17.under one exchange rate. The wonderful irony of the euro is not
:33:17. > :33:22.that the exchange rate is wrong for some of the countries, it is wrong
:33:22. > :33:25.for all of them. It is as wrong for Germany as it is wrong for Greece.
:33:25. > :33:31.The exchange rate for Germany ought to be much higher. It ought to be
:33:31. > :33:36.more difficult for them to export, easier to import. It is a shambles.
:33:36. > :33:40.Until either Europe becomes one country, which is quite unlikely,
:33:40. > :33:44.or countries begin to leave the euro, it cannot be resolved.
:33:44. > :33:48.problem is, right or wrong, that the continued inability of Europe's
:33:49. > :33:55.leaders to resolve the matter means that it becomes a near permanent
:33:55. > :33:59.drag on all the economies. Yes, and there is no sign of a solution.
:33:59. > :34:04.Germany have elections next year. Helmut Kohl said that monetary
:34:05. > :34:09.union without fiscal union is a castle in the air. It looks as if
:34:09. > :34:19.there is a long-term plan that looks very much like fiscal union.
:34:19. > :34:22.Right now, the castle is dropping to earth. In terms of leaving the
:34:22. > :34:25.euro, the Greeks do not want to leave, and the only way they can go
:34:25. > :34:29.as if they want to leave because they have a veto on changing the
:34:29. > :34:32.treaty. I think they may leave none the less.
:34:32. > :34:35.Now, Mona Lisa's eyes, Cleopatra's nose, Alan Johnson's complexion,
:34:35. > :34:40.Michael Portillo's lips... Great beauty has taken many forms
:34:40. > :34:44.throughout history. And Michael may well be the face that launched a
:34:44. > :34:48.thousand steam trains, but will he still be considered the ideal in a
:34:48. > :34:52.hundred years' time? Or even by the end of tonight's show? And at what
:34:52. > :34:56.point does the pressure to look good become nothing but a burden?
:34:56. > :35:06.Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but for one week only,
:35:06. > :35:16.
:35:16. > :35:21.we've decided to put it in the # Could you be the most beautiful
:35:21. > :35:25.girl in the world?. # It is Ladies' Day at Ascot, which
:35:25. > :35:29.means all eyes turn to the thoroughbred beauty is in the
:35:29. > :35:34.stands. In order to keep up appearances, Ascot has tightened
:35:34. > :35:38.its dress code, with racecourse police deployed to prevent crimes
:35:38. > :35:46.against fashion, such as strapless tops and fascinators. Watch out,
:35:46. > :35:49.Kate. So how damaging is the pressure to look beautiful? As his
:35:49. > :35:53.-- as headmistress has warned against the sexualisation of
:35:53. > :35:57.schoolchildren, Kim car - and is accused of sending confusing
:35:57. > :36:02.messages to young girls. And as cosmetic surgery becomes more
:36:02. > :36:07.commonplace, does it matter if implants are not toxic but are more
:36:07. > :36:16.likely to burst? So, is the ideal of beauty making us a danger on to
:36:16. > :36:25.ourselves, or has it always been this way? Caprice joins us. How
:36:25. > :36:32.important his duty to you? To me? Are you joking. I made a fortune on
:36:32. > :36:38.beauty. Let's call a spade a spade. Obviously, my career has progressed,
:36:38. > :36:44.but to start with, beauty was everything. Is it always a blessing,
:36:44. > :36:49.or sometimes a curse? Initially, a blessing, because I made a fortune
:36:49. > :36:52.just being a pretty girl. But when I started my business it was a
:36:52. > :36:57.curse because there is a stereotype. She was a model, she looks like
:36:57. > :37:02.that, we do not think the brand will work, we will not invest,
:37:02. > :37:06.forget it. It took a few years to establish credibility and to show
:37:06. > :37:13.that, I do not care what you think of me but I have the numbers here,
:37:13. > :37:18.so you have to take my brand. And I can give you free marketing as well.
:37:18. > :37:24.Because you were well known? Exactly. That is tremendous power.
:37:24. > :37:29.Has the view of society of duty changed over time? I think now it
:37:29. > :37:34.is almost obsessive. -- review of beauty. When I first started, it
:37:34. > :37:41.was not quite like this. And now the media and everyone around us is
:37:41. > :37:46.obsessed by a celebrity and beauty. That must mean young girls are
:37:46. > :37:51.under more pressure than they were even when you were younger? Young
:37:52. > :37:57.girls? Try older girls. Are you joking? Everyone, and it gets
:37:57. > :38:03.harder when you get older, trust me! It does not seem that is going
:38:03. > :38:09.to get any easier. We are more and more looks obsessed all the time.
:38:09. > :38:16.It is a celebrity beauty obsessed culture. I am finding that
:38:16. > :38:20.daughters of my friends, who are 18 to 20 years old, getting to want to
:38:20. > :38:25.change the way they look. These are 20 year-olds. I am thinking, you
:38:25. > :38:34.have not stopped growing! What are you thinking? That is something
:38:34. > :38:39.that is quite new. What does beauty mean to you, Michael? Yeah, Michael.
:38:39. > :38:42.I wanted to ask this, I think it must be tough because not only in
:38:42. > :38:45.business people must doubt there you are up to it, but what about
:38:45. > :38:51.personal relationships? How do you know whether somebody values you
:38:51. > :38:58.for yourself or just for your beauty? I am going to be really
:38:58. > :39:02.candid. If somebody - I am sure that their motivation was not 100%
:39:02. > :39:06.all of the time. I am OK with that, just as long as you make me happy
:39:06. > :39:10.and you are good to me. If your motivation is because you want to
:39:10. > :39:15.be standing next to me and get in a picture, knock yourself out. If I
:39:15. > :39:22.am happy in this relationship, then that is OK. I am not going to marry
:39:22. > :39:26.you, but... We will go out for a while and I am OK with that. This
:39:26. > :39:32.stuff that has been happening at Ascot is not about beauty. Ugly and
:39:32. > :39:36.disabled people are welcome. It is actually about taste. If you have a
:39:36. > :39:43.flabby tummy, or wobbly legs, we do not want to see them. It is about
:39:43. > :39:51.taste, not beauty. I was at Ascot last year and it was horrendous.
:39:51. > :39:55.What did you do? People were so appallingly dressed. Coming from an
:39:55. > :40:00.American, Ascot is English tradition. It is about elegance,
:40:00. > :40:08.about beauty. This is what we always thought it was. Elegance,
:40:08. > :40:14.rather than beauty. Only people can be very elegant. Do looks matter in
:40:14. > :40:21.politics? Yes, they do. I have always found my duty a blessing.
:40:22. > :40:29.They do matter. Why did you not become leader? If you go back to
:40:29. > :40:34.Nick Clegg, he was more popular than Winston Churchill. And his
:40:35. > :40:44.looks... The same with Cameron and Blair. But it does not get you
:40:44. > :40:51.through. Tony Blair's looks didn't matter. In America, Obama's looks
:40:51. > :40:56.mattered, and Mitt Romney's looks also matter. But remember, they are
:40:56. > :40:59.very good speakers as well. It is the look, but they are good
:40:59. > :41:07.speakers as well. Do you think it was your looks that kept you from
:41:07. > :41:12.becoming leaders of your party? were too beautiful to succeed.
:41:12. > :41:17.both chicken out. Was it an issue when you were running. It was part
:41:18. > :41:22.of your image, the handsome young man, new generation of the
:41:22. > :41:30.Conservative Party. Let's face it, even now, Andrew, you do not want
:41:30. > :41:36.to go on television looking hideous. I manage it every week. He is
:41:36. > :41:41.searching for a compliment! We have to say good night. Is that it?
:41:41. > :41:44.That's your lot for tonight, folks. But not for us, because it's Book
:41:44. > :41:49.Club night at Annabel's and it's Michael's turn to choose our
:41:49. > :41:54.reading matter. Which can mean only one thing - Fifty Shades of Grey.
:41:54. > :41:56.Again! But we leave you tonight with yet more evidence that for all
:41:56. > :42:01.their expensively educated country suppers and overpriced stationary,
:42:01. > :42:11.the Camerons really are a terrible judge of character. Nighty-night,
:42:11. > :42:12.
:42:12. > :42:22.don't let your embarrassing friends Who is your favourite member of
:42:22. > :42:35.