:00:20. > :00:25.Tonight, This Week is on Centre Court. The big hitters slog it out
:00:25. > :00:28.at Wimbledon, the big bankers are double faulting and playing by
:00:28. > :00:34.their own rules. Allister Heath says it is time for the umpire to
:00:34. > :00:38.get tough. Bashing bankers has never been part
:00:38. > :00:44.of this but after This Week's revelations they deserve all they
:00:44. > :00:49.get. Chancellor George Osborne serves up another U-turn, over fuel
:00:49. > :00:53.duties. Channel 4's Sarah Smith deals with a top-spin. The number
:00:53. > :00:58.two seed was convinced he had served an ace, but his opponents
:00:58. > :01:03.saw a double fault. There is always a handshake at the end of a tennis
:01:03. > :01:08.match. How difficult is it for opponents to put differences aside.
:01:08. > :01:15.Danny DeVito volleys some of our best loves. Are there people I
:01:15. > :01:25.would prefer not to work with? You bet, but they're not on This Week!
:01:25. > :01:30.
:01:30. > :01:36.Evening all, welcome to This Week. Our weekly game of Westminster
:01:36. > :01:46.swingball, which ends in a bad temper. When it comes to tangles,
:01:46. > :01:53.
:01:53. > :02:02.it seems that Boy George is To execute one U-turn is misfortune,
:02:02. > :02:06.two is carelessness, to embark on a dismantling of a Budget is an of
:02:06. > :02:12.any shambles. To let Ed Balls take the credit looks like a Government
:02:12. > :02:16.which has lost the will to govern. What should be done, if you are the
:02:16. > :02:24.Chancellor of the Exchequer in a Denis Healey-sized hole. Stop
:02:24. > :02:31.digging. Better to have your inturn, such as Chloe Smith to face the
:02:31. > :02:35.great Paxo. With 200,000 YouTube hits and climbing, being sacrificed
:02:35. > :02:40.to protect her boss, it is a lesson for work experience staff
:02:40. > :02:46.everywhere - never, ever volunteer for anything more than the photo
:02:46. > :02:56.copying or making the coffee. It works with Danny Alexander. Three
:02:56. > :02:57.
:02:57. > :03:02.of those who are never around when the pro-ver byal hits the fan --
:03:02. > :03:12.proverbial hits the fan. We have the Princess Beatrice of late night
:03:12. > :03:17.
:03:17. > :03:21.chat. I speak of Alan Johnson and chug, chug, chug, chug Michael
:03:21. > :03:27.Portillo. I enjoyed that. It is the best exercise of the week. Your
:03:27. > :03:32.moment of the week? The queeb has had a good week. I will pick today
:03:32. > :03:38.when she opened the Bomber Command memorial. 50,000 men lost their
:03:38. > :03:41.lives. So the numbers who survived it were 30 missions was very, very
:03:41. > :03:46.small. Incredibly brave men, fighting in the most appalling
:03:46. > :03:51.conditions. There was no element of the British fighting forces that
:03:51. > :03:58.lost a larger proportion. They have had to wait all this time to get a
:03:58. > :04:01.memorial because of course it was so controversial that 600,000
:04:01. > :04:07.German citizens were killed. It has nothing to do with the bravery of
:04:07. > :04:10.these men. I am delighted that the those who were killed and the
:04:10. > :04:19.bravery of those who survived has been recognised. A wonderful
:04:19. > :04:24.memorial. Marvellous. The last Lancaster we
:04:24. > :04:27.have flying over... Very, very moving. It is the handshake. When I
:04:27. > :04:36.was a union representative at the height of the troubles I
:04:36. > :04:40.represented members in Northern Ireland. 16 of my members were
:04:40. > :04:45.killed because they were postal workers. To see it transformed
:04:45. > :04:51.because of the courage of people like Robinson and McGuinness and
:04:52. > :04:57.yesterday the good judgment and diplomacy of the Queen, it was a
:04:57. > :05:02.triumph of. She handled it with dignity. Tough for the Duke as well,
:05:02. > :05:08.because his uncle was killed by the IRA. The queen has to do as she is
:05:08. > :05:17.told. Should she have to shake Diamond day's hand? It has not been
:05:17. > :05:23.a good week nor the banks again. First NatWest proved incapable of
:05:23. > :05:29.fulfilling its fundamental role. Then Barclays was fined for
:05:29. > :05:37.fiddling figures, in pursuit of bigger bonuses for big boy and
:05:37. > :05:42.bollinger Lady! Is it time to string them up from
:05:42. > :05:52.the lamppost? We have asked the editor of City AM, Allister Heath,
:05:52. > :06:07.
:06:07. > :06:12.Once again, the whole country is engaging in a bunch of banker
:06:12. > :06:22.baiting. I have defended them in the past. But not this time. This
:06:22. > :06:25.
:06:25. > :06:30.time, I think they deserve all the flak they are getting and even more.
:06:30. > :06:35.So, what did Barclays do wrong? They were found out manipulating a
:06:35. > :06:40.key interest rate - the liable rate, of City's gold standard which
:06:40. > :06:44.affects millions of consumers. Some rigged this for their financial
:06:44. > :06:48.self-interest. Barclays, I am shocked to say, failed to control
:06:48. > :06:54.some of their traders. Shame on them!
:06:54. > :07:00.This latest scandal will have far- reaching consequences. To be honest
:07:00. > :07:04.a �290 million fine is small fry for a bank like Barclays. People
:07:05. > :07:09.will ask, why haven't there been prosecutions? It seems there is one
:07:09. > :07:19.set of rules for rich rule-breakers and one for poor criminals. It does
:07:19. > :07:26.
:07:26. > :07:30.not seem like we're all in this Barclays boss, Diamond day is not
:07:30. > :07:34.the monster he has been made out to be. He was at the helm when the
:07:34. > :07:44.scandal took place. Today his position is looking increasingly
:07:44. > :07:49.wobbly. The Government will be under
:07:49. > :07:59.pressure to further punish the City, but it should resist calls for
:07:59. > :08:06.
:08:06. > :08:11.Don't forget, the City's vitally important to the British economy.
:08:11. > :08:16.It employs hundreds of thousands and pays �60 billion in tax a year.
:08:16. > :08:22.It needs sensible reform, not changes born out of a climate of
:08:22. > :08:27.anger. Yet the tidle wave of revelations has only just begun.
:08:27. > :08:30.Too many bankers turned a blind eye to some of their colleague's wrong
:08:30. > :08:33.doing. It will take years for the City's reputation as an
:08:33. > :08:43.international marketplace to recover. That is a tragedy for all
:08:43. > :08:47.
:08:47. > :08:51.Allister Heath on the wobbly bridge over the Thames, now to our wobbly
:08:52. > :08:55.bridge here in Westminster. This was a conspiracy to rig the market.
:08:55. > :08:59.It is something Adam Smith warned us about 250 years ago. A lot of
:08:59. > :09:03.people were thinking, this is not a matter for fines, you don't get
:09:03. > :09:08.your bonus - this is criminal behaviour. This should be jail.
:09:08. > :09:12.Well it sound like criminal behaviour, looks like it, but
:09:12. > :09:16.according to the authorities it is not. That is the problem here. It
:09:16. > :09:20.should be criminal behaviour. It is criminal behaviour to engage in
:09:20. > :09:24.insider trading. Why isn't it a crime to do this sort of thing?
:09:24. > :09:28.That is a major issue which needs to be tackled. Would the Americans
:09:28. > :09:32.regard it as criminal behaviour? The American authorities began the
:09:32. > :09:37.opening of this can of worms. It may not have happened if it were
:09:37. > :09:44.not for them. They were on the ball in a way we were not in this
:09:44. > :09:50.country. In a way this important market was run in ar amateur is way.
:09:50. > :09:54.There was no proper -- in an amateur way. There was no proper
:09:54. > :09:58.supervision. They did not care about the rules. Diamond day is the
:09:58. > :10:03.chief executive of bark -- Bob Diamond is the chief executive of
:10:03. > :10:08.Barclays Bank. He was the boss of Barclays Capital, the investment
:10:08. > :10:13.arm, where all this shenanigans were taking place. He was giving an
:10:13. > :10:19.interview about how bankers had paid their price - it was time to
:10:19. > :10:25.move on. How stupid does that sound tonight? Very stupid, especially
:10:25. > :10:29.that he must have known his bank was sitting on this scandal. Heads
:10:29. > :10:34.will have to roll at Barclays. Someone senior will have to leave.
:10:34. > :10:38.The second in command will be sacrifices everywhere. It is a bit
:10:38. > :10:42.like the BBC! Michael Portillo, not a single
:10:42. > :10:46.banker prosecuted since the start of this crisis. The contrast of the
:10:46. > :10:51.two sides of the Atlantic is very marked. In the United States we see
:10:51. > :10:56.people in handcuffs, people going to jail. It is what will happen. In
:10:56. > :11:00.the case of Bob Diamond I would say he knew what was going on or he
:11:00. > :11:04.would not know, in which case his position is in impossible. If you
:11:04. > :11:09.don't know what is going on in your bank that is no defence. It sound
:11:09. > :11:14.like you think he should go? I do. How do you explain to the public
:11:14. > :11:18.that a Pakistani cricket who rigs a match goes to prison, but a banker
:11:18. > :11:23.who rigs the interest market does not go to prison. How do you
:11:23. > :11:27.explain fining a bank �200 million, which is a drop in the ocean for
:11:27. > :11:32.these people, when we know the bonus pot is billions? Why does
:11:32. > :11:40.Barclays keep its license? What is the point of reg laters f banks --
:11:40. > :11:44.regulators, if banks that behave badly are not under threat. We saw
:11:44. > :11:50.Enron go. I don't see why we should not see a big bank go. Unless we do,
:11:50. > :11:54.none of this will come to an end. This is not the time to stop
:11:54. > :12:00.banker-bashing. This is a moment to indulge in it. The law will not
:12:00. > :12:03.constrain these people alone. What we have to do is stigmatise this
:12:03. > :12:08.rotten behaviour and make it socially unacceptable. When we had
:12:08. > :12:14.the big bang in the 1980s - this explosion of money and the breaking
:12:14. > :12:17.of the old skooling, in some ways - the -- school, in some ways. The
:12:17. > :12:23.old critique was about greed and greed and knowing the price of
:12:23. > :12:30.everything and the value of nothing. Labour got into power, Mr Balls, Mr
:12:30. > :12:35.Darling, Mr Brown, you allowed - it was a Wild West culture that
:12:35. > :12:39.developed. If you remember the culture at the time, Michael was
:12:39. > :12:43.Shadow Chancellor. The culture was about ensuring this huge asset we
:12:43. > :12:49.had wasn't restricted and restrained too much. Setting up the
:12:49. > :12:54.FSA, getting rid of three other regulatory bodies seems sensible.
:12:54. > :12:59.In a hind site it is a mistake. We were talking about tax avoidance. I
:13:00. > :13:03.agree with Michael about this - this leaves a bad taste in the
:13:03. > :13:10.mouth. What about the morality of this? What were these people doing?
:13:10. > :13:17.I will give you a bottle of Bollinger. There was a character
:13:17. > :13:21.called rich -- Rich Ricky. You could not make it up! There is a
:13:21. > :13:29.question mark here, I think Bob Diamond should go. They were fined
:13:29. > :13:39.Barclays last year, �7.7 million. That is less than Bob Diamond's
:13:39. > :13:41.
:13:41. > :13:47.bonus. If you have a centre-right and a centre-left commentator
:13:47. > :13:51.making these remarks, I don't see how the banks can put their house
:13:51. > :13:54.in order. There is a reason why Barclays will not lose its license,
:13:54. > :13:59.is 20 major banks are being investigated for this scandal. What
:13:59. > :14:03.we are saying is every single bank would have to lose its license.
:14:03. > :14:07.There has been corruption here at the heart of the system. I think
:14:07. > :14:11.the problem is not per se, right. I think the problem is greed which is
:14:11. > :14:14.unchecked by fear. That is the problem that has happened in the
:14:14. > :14:17.banking system, because you knew you could be bailed out, because
:14:17. > :14:22.you knew the Government would step in and save you if things went
:14:22. > :14:26.wrong. You were not cautious enough N the case of this particular sand
:14:26. > :14:32.--. In the case of this particular scandal there was no umpire to
:14:32. > :14:37.check what was going on. It has got worse rather than better. In 207
:14:37. > :14:42.you might doubt that your bank would be rescued. Before 207 you
:14:42. > :14:52.might have thought, maybe we can -- 2007 you might have thought maybe
:14:52. > :14:57.
:14:57. > :15:00.You see the politicians struggling. The sound byte today of David
:15:00. > :15:04.Cameron. Ed Miliband giving a speech. It's always kind of,
:15:04. > :15:08.nothing to do with me, we are against it, we can't find the words
:15:08. > :15:13.to condemn it, yet they seem to limited in what they can really do?
:15:13. > :15:20.That's got to change. I hear tonight that there are bits of
:15:20. > :15:24.legislation that they can be prosecuted under. I mane -- mean,
:15:24. > :15:28.it would just be remarkable if the public see, and are disgusted like
:15:28. > :15:31.this, see clear criminality and find there's no law. It happened
:15:31. > :15:35.under Labour, but it's the Conservatives in power and I guess
:15:35. > :15:39.it's a plague on all your Houses as far as the public's concerned?
:15:39. > :15:42.absolutely. They blame everybody for this. To be honest, if you look
:15:42. > :15:45.at whole financial crisis which is different from this particular
:15:45. > :15:49.problem, I don't think financial crisis was caused by criminality, I
:15:49. > :15:53.think it was caused by massive - where just about everyone is to
:15:53. > :15:59.blame, Central Banks, the Americans, Chinese, regulators, consumers,
:15:59. > :16:03.bankers, investors, absolutely frb. That's the issue. We feel not had
:16:03. > :16:09.the right reform when it comes to the banking and financial system.
:16:09. > :16:13.Maybe we should have a banking for the Leveson -- Leveson for the
:16:13. > :16:20.banking sment. Sounds like you are saying this is just the tip of the
:16:20. > :16:24.iceberg. Barclays got fined but they were first up. They kind of
:16:24. > :16:30.fessed up when they got rumbled. Other banks could be in line for
:16:30. > :16:33.bigger fines now? I suspect we'll see bigger fines for other banks
:16:33. > :16:36.which is a massive blow for London's reputation as a financial
:16:36. > :16:40.centre because this was a key global interest rate that was set
:16:40. > :16:44.here in London and basically what's happened is that London's not got
:16:44. > :16:48.its act together. The banks were not able to do something that
:16:48. > :16:51.worked that was trustworthy. That's a massive blow for the UK economy.
:16:51. > :16:55.Ultimately, the City's vitally important to the UK economy and
:16:55. > :16:59.pays a lot of tax, employs a lot of people. It needs to be reformed
:16:59. > :17:04.sensibly to make it work better to make it stronger and unfortunately,
:17:04. > :17:08.we've got all these problems. very important when the banks say
:17:08. > :17:11.you mustn't kill the goose that lays the golden eggs by over-
:17:12. > :17:14.regulation. Actually, a vital part of the City is that people should
:17:14. > :17:21.have confidence that it is properly regulated.
:17:21. > :17:25.The rest of the world uses this rate, it looks to London because it
:17:25. > :17:30.thinks it can trust London. We didn't become prosperous by
:17:30. > :17:37.being the sharks but by being the best regulated market. These two
:17:37. > :17:43.think kb Bob Diamond should go. Shall me and you agree that he
:17:43. > :17:47.probably won't go? Diamond came out fighting today. But someone will
:17:47. > :17:52.have to go for this. Other people will have to go at other banks but
:17:52. > :17:55.it's not just a problem with barricallys but a lot of global
:17:55. > :18:00.banks. Expecting the board to do anything about it is a pathetic
:18:00. > :18:05.hope isn't it? That's not going to happen. There could be more bodies
:18:05. > :18:10.lying around in the coming week. Those of you who have trouble
:18:10. > :18:15.sleeping at night - talking to you Gary Barlow and you Bob Diamond.
:18:15. > :18:20.Put aside those pills and pour yourself a picture of the van bleu
:18:20. > :18:25.instead. Coming up - and we can hardly believe it ourselves -
:18:25. > :18:29.Hollywood director, producer, star of the West End stage, Danny Devito.
:18:29. > :18:34.He'll be talking about the art of putting personal and political
:18:34. > :18:39.differences aside and for those of you who can't help burying a grudge,
:18:39. > :18:42.which is most of the audience, remember, in's the Twitter, the
:18:42. > :18:46.fleecebook and the missionary position interweb. Strawberries and
:18:46. > :18:50.cream time again when the great and good and under employed bunk off
:18:50. > :18:54.for the day and rock up at the Royal Box at Wimbledon for the
:18:54. > :19:00.yearly Festival of High-class sport and middle-class work donling.
:19:00. > :19:03.Leading the way is Britain's most famous NEAT, that's not in
:19:03. > :19:08.education, employment or training, yes, pip that Middleton, so we
:19:08. > :19:12.decided if it's good enough for her, it's probably not good enough for
:19:12. > :19:22.us. We sent the girl with the tattoo, Channel 4's Sarah Smith,
:19:22. > :19:31.
:19:31. > :19:35.this is the round-up of the Thank you heavens for Wimbledon. A
:19:35. > :19:40.Championship as British as strawberries and cream. A ver
:19:40. > :19:44.itable bastion of civility and respectability. OK, some of the
:19:44. > :19:47.tennis stars might be sporting the odd power tattoo these days but I
:19:47. > :19:51.bet they could still teach our British politicians a thing or two
:19:51. > :20:01.about fair play in sporting behaviour. And after all, you can't
:20:01. > :20:12.
:20:12. > :20:17.Now, it's not just tennis stars displaying a fondness for body art
:20:17. > :20:19.these days. It's said that Winston Churchill had an anchor tattooed on
:20:20. > :20:25.his arm. So was the Chancellor George Osborne thinking Churchill
:20:25. > :20:29.or Popeye when he revealed his latest surprise? A delay in the 3p
:20:29. > :20:34.rise in fuel duty. Now, he can't tell us how much it's going to cost
:20:34. > :20:38.and he can't tell us where the money's going to come from, but he
:20:38. > :20:41.still thought he'd served an ace. His opponents saw a double fault.
:20:41. > :20:45.We are on the side of working families and businesses and this
:20:45. > :20:48.will fuel our recovery at this very difficult economic time for the
:20:49. > :20:52.world. The Shadow Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls is more of a bare knuckle
:20:53. > :20:56.fighter than tennis player, the kind of man who might have love and
:20:56. > :21:00.hate tattooed on his fists but he saw the opportunity to lob a few
:21:00. > :21:06.long shots at the Chancellor. have had U-turns on pasties,
:21:06. > :21:10.churches, charities, caravans, skips and today a U-turn on fuel
:21:10. > :21:13.which we welcome. The Chancellor did manage to return
:21:13. > :21:18.most volleys but for some reason, he didn't seem confident in his
:21:18. > :21:21.game off the court, so we put the ballgirl up against an old Grand
:21:21. > :21:27.Slam master. Can you tell us from which departments that gap is going
:21:27. > :21:32.to be made up? The figure will be drawn from under-spends in
:21:32. > :21:36.departmental budgets. Yes. Where? Which department is it going to
:21:36. > :21:40.come from? They fall from different... Just name me a few
:21:40. > :21:43.departments? No, I won't do that because we'll be... You don't know?
:21:43. > :21:47.We'll give you the details in the autumn statement. Are you waiting
:21:47. > :21:52.to be told that as well? No. Do you ever wake up in the morning and
:21:52. > :21:56.think, my God, what am I going to be told today?
:21:56. > :22:00.Not exactly an impressive display of girl power there, but in the
:22:00. > :22:04.week when we saw the Spice Girls all back together again, we also
:22:04. > :22:10.saw some sisterly solidarity in the Conservative Party. Two female Tory
:22:10. > :22:15.MPs did stand up for Chloe Smith, one of them called George Osborne a
:22:15. > :22:19.coward for not going on Newsnight himself. And then, the Tory party's
:22:19. > :22:28.number one seed had to display fancy footwork when he was caught
:22:28. > :22:32.at the net. The fuel duty incress was a Labour tax rise. It cannot be
:22:32. > :22:35.a U-turn to get rid of a Labour tax increase.
:22:35. > :22:39.The Government has grown accustomed to losing a few game points over
:22:39. > :22:43.their U-turns by now and they know it won't necessarily cost them the
:22:43. > :22:47.match. But the real problem for team Cameron is how can he promise
:22:47. > :22:57.to spend every penny on slashing the deficit and then spend all that
:22:57. > :23:03.
:23:03. > :23:06.cash on tax cuts for motorists and Easy to think all the sporting
:23:07. > :23:10.action is taking place in London this summer but don't forget the
:23:11. > :23:14.fun and games in the eurozone as yet another crucial European summit
:23:14. > :23:18.gets going in Brussels. Even the Governor of the Bank of England,
:23:18. > :23:25.Mervyn King, says he doesn't know who's going to win this game. Now,
:23:25. > :23:28.where do we go from here? When this crisis began, 2007, 200,
:23:28. > :23:33.most people, including ourselves, did not believe that we would still
:23:33. > :23:37.be right in the thick of it, the middle of it, five years later. All
:23:37. > :23:47.the way through, I said to the committee, I don't think we are
:23:47. > :23:48.
:23:48. > :23:51.It's a rare day at Wimbledon when it isn't raining and it's tempting
:23:52. > :23:55.to think that maybe this brief spell of good weather inspired
:23:55. > :23:59.David Cameron's blue sky thinks when it came to rel fare we form.
:24:00. > :24:03.For literally millions, the passage to independence is several years
:24:03. > :24:07.living in their childhood bedroom as they save to move out while for
:24:07. > :24:12.others it's a trip to the council where they can get Housing Benefit
:24:12. > :24:15.at 18 or 19, even if they are not really actively seeking work.
:24:15. > :24:18.have some big ideas on welfare reform, a growing economic crisis
:24:19. > :24:24.in the eurozone and a double dip recession here at home. That is a
:24:24. > :24:27.lot of balls in the air. So when Lib Dem MPs insist now is the right
:24:27. > :24:30.time to introduce a Bill to reform the House of Lords, you can see why
:24:30. > :24:33.other MPs accuse them of rather unsporting behaviour.
:24:33. > :24:38.The idea that you can't do more than one thing at once in politics
:24:38. > :24:44.just as in life, I just think it's really silly.
:24:44. > :24:48.Even if Nick Clegg does get his bay way, the new look Upper House won't
:24:48. > :24:58.be filled with the Senators until 2025, and we can only hope this
:24:58. > :25:05.
:25:05. > :25:10.influx of commoners doesn't dilute She'll never get the tattoos off,
:25:10. > :25:15.you know. We are joined, as we often rrbgs and we welcome you,
:25:15. > :25:20.Miranda Green. We are sitting here in the Westminster village which
:25:20. > :25:23.says all parties in their manifesto backed House of Lords reform in
:25:23. > :25:27.principle? Indeed. Stkpwh I mean the three main party leaders,
:25:27. > :25:31.National Partys, say that they want it to happen, they are going to
:25:31. > :25:36.instruct their traps to vote and yet as we sit here, the consensus
:25:36. > :25:40.is it won't happen. Explain? I think this is one of these rather
:25:40. > :25:46.depressing occasions where the merits of the case, in this case
:25:46. > :25:49.for reform of the upper chamber have been completely lost in
:25:49. > :25:54.political in-fighting, intrigue, tit-for-tat revenge now from the
:25:54. > :25:58.backbenchers of the two coalition parties, the Tory party were very
:25:58. > :26:02.insulted that Nick Clegg didn't back David Cameron over Jeremy Hunt
:26:03. > :26:05.and the sort of slightly getting their revenge by saying they'll
:26:05. > :26:08.rebel over House of Lords reform. The Labour Party for their own
:26:08. > :26:12.reasons are saying this isn't right, we don't like the way it's being
:26:12. > :26:16.handled in Parliament and don't like the way it's going to be
:26:16. > :26:21.debated. So it's an unholy mess. I think if you are the Liberal
:26:21. > :26:25.Democrats and you after 100 years have an opportunity to have a go,
:26:25. > :26:29.you have to cheerlead as one of your own priorities. We know it's
:26:30. > :26:35.important to Nick Clegg and he sees this as a way of making up for the
:26:35. > :26:40.complete shambles of the AV referendum. But is it really that
:26:40. > :26:44.important to Lib Dems in the large? Is it really an issue that gets him
:26:44. > :26:50.out of bed? I think that's a very, very good question actually and is
:26:51. > :26:54.the right one and I think the Lib Dems should ask it of themselves
:26:54. > :26:58.actually because... It's hard to tell isn't it? The reason for this
:26:58. > :27:01.coalition is not actually a comprehensive programme of
:27:01. > :27:06.constitutional reform. It is to do with stability and the economy
:27:06. > :27:12.which, as we have seen today, you know, is far from solved. However,
:27:12. > :27:16.it's the case that you can do more than one thing at a time. And also
:27:16. > :27:22.really Parliamentarians have moaned now for a very long time what the
:27:22. > :27:25.executive is too powerful, Parliament doesn't have enough ways
:27:25. > :27:30.of reining them in. This is a way of adding legitimacy to Parliament
:27:30. > :27:35.and it's an opportunity that people who're serious about reform should
:27:35. > :27:38.think. Labour is supporting it in principle, as they should, the
:27:38. > :27:42.elected second chamber, overwhelmingly elected and you are
:27:42. > :27:45.going to cause as much trouble as possible in the process? Well, I'm
:27:45. > :27:49.not and we are supporting the second reading and I support this
:27:49. > :27:53.as much as Nick Clegg. I don't know why we are saying the Lib Dems
:27:53. > :27:59.should be supporting this, it was one of kaer Hardy's founding
:27:59. > :28:03.principles, it's a monument of pat Ronage, institutionalised snobbery.
:28:03. > :28:07.It's a stain upon our democracy. Since 1997, there's been lots of
:28:07. > :28:11.attempts to find a middle way because there's people worried
:28:11. > :28:17.about primacy in the Commons et cetera and great Labour stalwarts
:28:17. > :28:21.like one of my heroes, the late Robin Cook, Tony Wright, others
:28:21. > :28:27.working with people like William Hague and George Young came up with
:28:27. > :28:31.this, called breaking the dead log, which I supported. All these
:28:31. > :28:35.proposals came from that discussion. We have all had to compromise.
:28:35. > :28:39.party's not going to vote for the programme motion which is the
:28:39. > :28:42.motion that allowed... Since it's a constitutional issue, got to take
:28:42. > :28:45.place on the floor of the House, you don't have a programme motion
:28:45. > :28:50.limiting the time to reasonable amounts, it will dominate the whole
:28:50. > :28:54.session? But there's a very good point about this, which given that
:28:54. > :28:59.it's Lord's reform, if we send it to the Lord's and it's not been
:28:59. > :29:02.properly debated in the Commons, that won't be good. There should be
:29:02. > :29:06.a referendum on big constitutional issues like this. I think it knead
:29:06. > :29:09.a referendum and that's a very important thing. Where are you on
:29:09. > :29:14.this Michael? The House of Lords in its present form is in a hopeless
:29:14. > :29:19.state of affairs, however it's a huge leap to go from saying the
:29:19. > :29:24.solution is to elect 80% of the members for 15-year terms. I think
:29:24. > :29:27.that's a ludicrous proposal. So I don't actually agree with what
:29:27. > :29:30.Miranda said that it's tit-for-tat. I think it's hard to believe that
:29:30. > :29:36.this is the right proposal that you should make. My own solution would
:29:36. > :29:39.be to go bit by bit, cut the House of Lords in half, then get rid of
:29:39. > :29:43.the hereditaries, cut in half probably by having an election
:29:43. > :29:53.within the members of the House of Lords to see which were the popular
:29:53. > :29:53.
:29:53. > :29:58.people who could stay and see how The American Senate manages with
:29:58. > :30:03.100. Another week, another U-turn. What do you think the U-turn will
:30:03. > :30:09.be next week? I think it is a sign, as was the �80 billion injection
:30:09. > :30:14.into the banks of how serious the Government thinks things are. It
:30:14. > :30:19.does not enjoy doing U-turns. It is a serious amount of money. Where is
:30:19. > :30:22.the money coming from. The Government believe the stimulus is
:30:23. > :30:28.needed to prevent the further stalling of the economy. On this
:30:28. > :30:38.fall out from the Budget, the collateral damage is to the Tories?
:30:38. > :30:42.The Lib Dems are well shielded. Even though they are responsible?
:30:42. > :30:46.Cumulatively the pain is shared. You get the impression that if you
:30:46. > :30:50.push hard enough on any issue the Government will cave in, which does
:30:50. > :30:59.not make it look like a strong front. You need a strong Government.
:30:59. > :31:06.If it is not plan B, what is it? This should have been good news,
:31:06. > :31:11.shouldn't it? It makes it seem as if there's no skill. The way that
:31:11. > :31:16.George Osborne handled this, from springing it on, aparently the
:31:16. > :31:20.Cabinet, poor old Justine Greening was going out to defend it. If the
:31:20. > :31:24.fiscal deve it is is your number one priority, you don't -- deficit
:31:24. > :31:33.is your number one priority, you don't throw it away. You can make
:31:33. > :31:36.an argument on that and you can't say, we'll take it from
:31:36. > :31:43.departmental under-spends. underlines how worryed the
:31:43. > :31:47.Government is about the financial position. Let's look at what
:31:47. > :31:52.happened. In June 2010, the Chancellor told us it would be five
:31:52. > :31:56.years of austerity to get the fiscal deficit right. In the Pre-
:31:56. > :32:01.Budget Report last year, he told us two. We are up to seven. The
:32:01. > :32:08.Cabinet Secretary says up to 10 and now the Governor of the Bank of
:32:08. > :32:15.England says we're not even half- way through. You have to look at
:32:15. > :32:18.what is going on, the economy is not growing. We are borrowing 8% of
:32:18. > :32:23.national GDP every year. When the national debt reaches a certain
:32:23. > :32:28.point the markets go wild. And the problem for the coalition is the
:32:28. > :32:33.original game plan, with the five years, everything would be hunky
:32:33. > :32:38.dorry you would fight the 2015 election saying we know it has hurt,
:32:38. > :32:42.but we've been through the worst and the sunny up lands around the
:32:42. > :32:46.corner, don't let Labour screw it up. This was an interesting week.
:32:46. > :32:51.Some of it last week, with Michael Gove playing to the gallery, you
:32:51. > :32:55.know, the Tory Party seems to me is starting to lay out its stall for
:32:55. > :33:01.the next election. Everyone will think in this way. The background
:33:01. > :33:05.is a decade or more of austerity. All these problems which have been
:33:05. > :33:11.kicked into the long grass - what do you do with an ageing population
:33:11. > :33:20.- they have to be addressed. thrash the country and then you
:33:20. > :33:26.throw some money at it. He's been thinking to get that line
:33:26. > :33:33.in. Thank you to Alan Johnson's script writer for that!
:33:33. > :33:42.Now Michael and Diane, Michael and Jacqui, Michael and Alan. It is
:33:42. > :33:47.like a Westminster wife-swapping party, choo, choo Portillo has a
:33:47. > :33:53.different parter in every week. How easy is it to put aside your
:33:53. > :34:03.personal and professional differences and keep it up so late
:34:03. > :34:10.
:34:10. > :34:16.# Bring me sunshine # In your smile # As Danny DeVito
:34:16. > :34:20.takes to the West End, reunited with a partner he's not spoken to
:34:20. > :34:25.for years, can personal differences be put aside for one last show? The
:34:25. > :34:30.Spice Girls seem to think so, with the launch of their new musical,
:34:30. > :34:36.even if Posh does not want to be there. It doesn't matter how long
:34:36. > :34:43.it is - 16 years on, we feel like family members. With speculation
:34:43. > :34:47.that Danny will get together with Arnold Schwarzenegger for a Twins
:34:47. > :34:52.sequel, are personal differences easier to overcome? Northern
:34:52. > :35:00.Ireland shows what is possible, with a royal Belfast handshake that
:35:00. > :35:05.has brought 1,000 words. This is an opportunity for me to extend the
:35:05. > :35:15.hand of peace and reconciliation to Queen Elizabeth. So long as our own
:35:15. > :35:22.
:35:22. > :35:28.sunshine boys keep their roving We are joined by Danny DeVito.
:35:28. > :35:34.Hello. Who does think these two share a bed. Got our pyjamas on.
:35:34. > :35:38.That is really crazy. I was looking outside, desperately trying to find
:35:38. > :35:46.a striped shirt to put on. No, two is more than enough. You are
:35:46. > :35:50.treading the boards. You are in The Savoy theatre, you are doing The
:35:50. > :35:56.Sunshine Boys, a tale of two former stars who are very different. You,
:35:56. > :36:00.as an actor and director, have you been forced to work with somebody
:36:00. > :36:04.who you would prefer not to?Vy very fortunate, like most of the
:36:04. > :36:10.time I have worked with really nice people and I have a lot of friends
:36:10. > :36:16.who I work with a lot over and over again. Like Michael Douglas, Jack
:36:16. > :36:22.Nichol son. All these guys I have grown up with. They are all really,
:36:22. > :36:30.really kind, generous people. I've been in a good spot for many, many
:36:30. > :36:38.years, on Taxi - all the people on Taxi, we were like a family for
:36:38. > :36:42.five years. Nobody you would have said, "Get me out of this studio!"
:36:42. > :36:47.There are people who may not focus the way you like them to. Those are
:36:47. > :36:52.the people you avoid. Those are the people who have their own problems
:36:52. > :36:57.and thinks that they... That's personal stuff. Somebody like, for
:36:57. > :37:02.instance, if a movie star, say, or a director or producer, who treats
:37:02. > :37:07.the people who work for them in not a kind way, an unkind way, those
:37:07. > :37:10.are the people that you just say, you put a tag on that and you say,
:37:10. > :37:14.if they, if that's the way they're going to be in life, you would
:37:14. > :37:19.rather not work with them. But most of them... I have been very
:37:19. > :37:23.fortunate. Acting, when you look from the outside, acting seems like
:37:23. > :37:28.a love-in, everybody is publicly nice to each other, which is the
:37:28. > :37:34.opposite of politics. Behind, away from the public gaze, can it be
:37:34. > :37:38.just bitchy as politics? It depends on the whole... And my mother used
:37:39. > :37:44.to say, that fish stinks from the head. So, if you have a situation
:37:44. > :37:51.where I produced many movies and have acted in many, directed seven
:37:51. > :37:54.or eight. The idea is, if the person in the helm has a clear,
:37:54. > :37:59.first of all they understand what they want, and they are not
:37:59. > :38:01.operating out of greed and fear, then, you know, they are really
:38:01. > :38:05.genuinely thinking about the project. Most of the time it will
:38:05. > :38:10.work out really good. Things will be smooth. There may be differences
:38:10. > :38:15.of opinion and this, that and the other, but in the long-term, it's
:38:15. > :38:19.solid. If there's something up there -- somebody up there what is
:38:19. > :38:25.not a really good person, somebody who is abusing the power, then it
:38:25. > :38:30.is the same thing in movies or politics or anywhere. For you, what
:38:30. > :38:33.has been more difficult to reconcile - personal or political
:38:33. > :38:37.differences? I find everybody has their own certain world view of
:38:37. > :38:42.things which are going on. Personal differences, I mean, like I said, I
:38:42. > :38:49.have been very fortunate to work with people who I have gotten on
:38:49. > :38:55.with and occasionally you butt heads with maybe a studio executive
:38:55. > :38:59.or some financial things where they are in a spot where they need to
:38:59. > :39:05.fight for, to keep the budget down. Sometimes and that happens, it has
:39:05. > :39:13.happened in the past, but never to the point where it was
:39:13. > :39:20.irreconcilable. Like Arnold and I. We are totally opposite ends, I am
:39:20. > :39:26.a Democrat. He's a Republican. He was a supporter of Alex Bushill --
:39:26. > :39:30.of George Bush. I am not. We have those kind of... You get on well?
:39:30. > :39:36.We get on well like on set. We've done two movies together. We are
:39:36. > :39:41.planning a third. Are you going to do another one? Now he has finished
:39:41. > :39:47.with this insanity of being governor of California. You mean go
:39:47. > :39:52.back to a real job. Are you often mistaken for each other? No. The
:39:52. > :39:58.idea is that now we have been speaking, just before I came here
:39:58. > :40:03.to do The Sunshine Boys, which I am having a great time doing with
:40:03. > :40:06.Richard Griffiths. Before that, we had several dinners, talked about
:40:06. > :40:16.the possibility of doing a new movie and we decided that we wanted
:40:16. > :40:17.
:40:17. > :40:21.to call it Triplets and we reached out to Eddie Murphy to see if he
:40:22. > :40:26.would.... That would work! Politics involves working people you don't
:40:26. > :40:29.like, because row have no choice. Let me give you an example, not
:40:29. > :40:34.someone I didn't like but after Michael Heseltine challenged
:40:34. > :40:38.Margaret Thatcher for the leadership and unseated Margaret
:40:38. > :40:43.Thatcher, it felt to me the day after that to work for Michael
:40:43. > :40:47.Heseltine. I found the experience uplifting. We worked to abolish the
:40:47. > :40:51.poll tax, the community charge and we were politically different, but
:40:51. > :40:56.it was uplifting. We had to find a way to win the subsequent election,
:40:56. > :41:02.getting rid of the poll tax. He remains a very good friend for me
:41:02. > :41:05.today. Do you care to tell us who you don't like working with?
:41:05. > :41:11.The biggest challenge in politics is a coalition. Each party is a
:41:11. > :41:16.coalition. That is true. In our country it is different.
:41:16. > :41:23.Right now, what's going on right now is not a... You have got people
:41:23. > :41:29.who are definitely just one, with one thing on their mind. It has
:41:29. > :41:38.become personal. It is like a big, it's a big... Just yesterday they
:41:38. > :41:42.voted to allow, uphold the crazy law where you can, anybody can
:41:42. > :41:46.donate, any corporation... amount of money. So all these
:41:46. > :41:51.people with billions of dollars pay money to get people into office and
:41:52. > :41:55.do anything they can. It's not like really what politicians are
:41:56. > :42:02.supposed to be doing. They are supposed to represent the voice of
:42:02. > :42:09.the people. Have you noticed a time when America was more polarised and
:42:09. > :42:14.politics more bitter than it is now and the media egging it on in
:42:14. > :42:17.America? Look things all over the world are not getting better. It's
:42:18. > :42:23.not only politics, it's like everything - the population, the
:42:24. > :42:28.supply of water. Everything is getting, we're... The planet is
:42:28. > :42:32.shrinking. We're becoming like. We're a blink in the eye. We are
:42:32. > :42:37.just like that. That is what we are. If you look at the eve vow luegsry
:42:37. > :42:43.scheme of things, we are like a tiny blink. We don't realise that.
:42:43. > :42:49.We think we'll be here forever. It's not true. So, it may be our
:42:49. > :42:52.time. We want maybe see all this, but if we have children or
:42:52. > :42:56.grandchildren, their children, anybody who you invest your
:42:56. > :43:04.emotional investment into, you have got to look down the line and say
:43:04. > :43:09.it is going faster and faster. It is deteriorating. We have run out
:43:09. > :43:14.of time. Good luck in The Sunshine Boys. Come and see us at The
:43:14. > :43:23.Savoy.Ly be there until 20th July. That is your lot tonight, folks.
:43:23. > :43:29.Not for us. For once we are going to sofrbl unionist with the ASBO
:43:29. > :43:32.dodging crews. We are off to their favourite fish and chip shop - The
:43:32. > :43:38.Laughing Halibut, in Victoria. Which celebrates 30 years in the
:43:38. > :43:43.business and nearly 10 years of making our production office
:43:43. > :43:48.stinking of vinegar. News that MPs have taken their sex-change,
:43:49. > :43:54.gender-reassignment surgery of Big Ben just a little too far. We say,