:00:18. > :00:22.As London gears up for the Olympics, the MPs gear up for the long summer
:00:22. > :00:27.break. Team Cameron struggles to control its backbenches. The Prime
:00:27. > :00:31.Minister struggles to control his temper. Olympic heavyweight and Sky
:00:31. > :00:35.News Political Editor Adam Boulton hits top form. Team GB have high
:00:35. > :00:39.hopes of the coalition in the muck- spreading and digging yourself into
:00:39. > :00:42.a hole events. No Olympic treatment for the
:00:42. > :00:47.analing population as the Government announces new plans for
:00:47. > :00:50.social care. How will it be funded? And will it
:00:50. > :00:56.ever happen? Gold medal broadcaster glor ya
:00:56. > :01:00.Hunniford is on the podium. I'll be certainly cheering on Team GB. But
:01:00. > :01:07.I'll tell you something, Britain won't win any medals for the care
:01:07. > :01:10.of the elderly. Something has to be done urgently. And controlling your
:01:10. > :01:14.emotions. Andy Murray burst into tears after losing the final and
:01:14. > :01:20.voices are raised in Westminster. Star of stage and screens, Stephen
:01:20. > :01:27.Mangan keeps a stiff upper lip. an actor, it's my job to convince
:01:27. > :01:37.you that I believe what I'm saying. I'm so pleased to be here. Let's
:01:37. > :01:39.
:01:39. > :01:42.Evening all. Welcome to This Week. Tonight, we exclusively reveal the
:01:42. > :01:45.latest sport to qualify for the Olympics. It's a cross between the
:01:45. > :01:48.hurdles and the marathon. First, you have to survive the queues at
:01:48. > :01:53.Heathrow border control without dying of thirst, hunger or boredom.
:01:54. > :01:57.Not many do. For those that make it, you next have to work out how to
:01:57. > :02:01.get into London, since the road from the airport is closed. And the
:02:01. > :02:04.handful that do make it to the stadium then have to stand in line
:02:04. > :02:07.behind the terrorists, who will be out in force now it's public
:02:07. > :02:09.knowledge we don't have enough security guards. Anybody who can
:02:09. > :02:12.make it through all that really deserves a gold medal. Today,
:02:12. > :02:15.Theresa May, the Home Secretary, who put the omni in omnishambles,
:02:15. > :02:18.decided, despite assurances from those nice security folk at Group 4,
:02:18. > :02:20.that everything was going exactly to plan, to call in military
:02:21. > :02:24.reinforcements. Just as well the Olympics aren't next year, when we
:02:24. > :02:26.won't have an Army to mobilise. Oh well, the Army might be smaller
:02:27. > :02:29.than at anytime since 1750. At least to Waterloo, Tobruk, Normandy
:02:30. > :02:32.and Helmand, thanks to Ms May, it will soon be adding Westfield
:02:32. > :02:42.Shopping Centre, Stratford, to its long list of proud campaign medals
:02:42. > :02:49.
:02:49. > :02:52.Lions, led by donkeys indeed. Speaking of those who couldn't
:02:52. > :02:55.organise a This Week end-of-term party in a Blue Nun winery, I'm
:02:55. > :02:58.joined on the sofa tonight by two men who are only here because Pete
:02:58. > :03:01.Waterman cancelled his Hyde Park concert, the Jason Donovan and Rick
:03:01. > :03:03.Astley of late night political chat. I speak, of course, of
:03:03. > :03:13.#manontheleft Alan 'AJ' Johnson and #sadmanonatrain Michael 'choo choo'
:03:13. > :03:22.
:03:22. > :03:28.Moment of the week, Michael? Apparently during the course of the
:03:28. > :03:32.week, the Prime Minister engaged in an animated and angry way backbench
:03:32. > :03:37.Conservative Member of Parliament called Jessie Norman over House of
:03:37. > :03:40.Lords reform which Jessie Norman had opposed in fact he'd been an
:03:40. > :03:45.organiser of the opposition. I would also say that Jessie Norman
:03:45. > :03:49.is to my way of thinking one of the most thoughtful, intelligent and
:03:49. > :03:53.gracious men I've ever met. He did play a major part I think in
:03:53. > :03:56.exposing that the Bill was an absolute shambles and not a Bill
:03:56. > :04:00.that a Conservative Government ought to have anything to do with
:04:00. > :04:04.whatsoever. So it was to me a moment of great disappointment that
:04:04. > :04:09.the Prime Minister would seek to engage him in this angry way and we
:04:09. > :04:14.are going to come to anger later in the programme. Indeed. I think I
:04:14. > :04:17.speak from personal experience, that aerpbg is what you later
:04:17. > :04:21.regret very much indeed. I should pount out the Prime Minister
:04:21. > :04:26.dismissed this story as tittle- tattle which is, we regard it as
:04:26. > :04:30.Westminster language for confirmation that it happened. Alan,
:04:30. > :04:34.your moment? The election of the first woman to lead the TUC in
:04:34. > :04:37.nearly 150 years, Francis O'Grady. When I first page a union official
:04:37. > :04:41.when I joined the Post Office, it was part of the Civil Service, it
:04:41. > :04:47.had the marriage bar, so if a woman was married, she couldn't be
:04:47. > :04:50.promoted to a position above what they call grade five. Is that
:04:50. > :04:54.right?! They just got rid of it. When I became active in the Civil
:04:54. > :04:59.Service union it was still there. The union movement clung on to this
:04:59. > :05:05.marriage bar which shows you what Francis O'Grady had to overcome.
:05:05. > :05:12.She's great. A formidable woman. Very. The TUC catching up with the
:05:12. > :05:16.Scottish TUC who had a woman leader in the 1880s. I bow to your see
:05:16. > :05:20.peerior knowledge - again! Many people say that, especially
:05:20. > :05:24.after I slip them a few bob. While I may be young for us young Turks
:05:24. > :05:29.ever to imagine a time when we might need help around the house or
:05:29. > :05:33.even with the Lords under threat to go into another kind of residential
:05:33. > :05:38.care home, it seems we all need to start thinking about old age soon.
:05:38. > :05:43.The Government's White Paper on social care put off some of the big
:05:43. > :05:47.decisions on the spending review some years away. We turn to the
:05:47. > :05:52.ever radiant glory ya Hunniford who spent some time living in care
:05:52. > :05:56.homes as part of a BBC season of programmes on older people. She
:05:56. > :06:01.also spent a few days with Ivy, nearly one of the two million
:06:01. > :06:11.pensioners living in poverty, to see how she manages on a disposable
:06:11. > :06:14.
:06:14. > :06:19.income of �3 a day. This is a Take of the Week.
:06:20. > :06:26.Food shopping on so little money is a weekly ordeal for Ivy. Consumer
:06:26. > :06:32.champion Gloria has a plan. In my head I thought I would make a good
:06:32. > :06:37.spaghetti sauce so I'll buy mince steak, steak, onions, mushrooms and
:06:37. > :06:42.I would be able to make her spaghetti for tonight and spread
:06:42. > :06:47.that oufplt onions are 82p which is quite a lot. The financial
:06:47. > :06:53.realities of Ivy's life are proving more difficult than Gloria imagined.
:06:53. > :06:59.This one is quite expensive. I couldn't do it. Even using two
:06:59. > :07:05.days' money I couldn't do it. It was so expensive. It was �5 for any
:07:05. > :07:08.kind of, you know, decent meat. So �5 would have been almost two days'
:07:08. > :07:15.worth. Then I was going to buy the onions and mushrooms which would
:07:15. > :07:18.have been �8 and I thought, I can't spend �8 on just the meat. It's
:07:18. > :07:21.shocking. It's estimated that 1 million pensioners are malnourished
:07:21. > :07:25.and it's been a wake-up call for Gloria.
:07:25. > :07:32.I don't know how you do it actually. I don't. I don't. I came here
:07:32. > :07:38.hoping that maybe I may be able to make some tweak for Ivy and, in a
:07:38. > :07:42.way, I think in reverse, she's shown me so much today.
:07:42. > :07:46.And Gloria now joins us in our little old folks home here at
:07:46. > :07:50.Westminster. I didn't want to say that! The people have rumbled it!
:07:50. > :07:55.You have done this BBC series which has been very well received, but
:07:55. > :08:00.were you surprised by what you found? Well, I was humbled, shocked
:08:00. > :08:05.and, as I said, I think Ivy taught me more than I was actually able to
:08:05. > :08:09.give her. I didn't realise that people actually had to try and live
:08:09. > :08:13.on just over �3 disposable income, not just for food, for clothes,
:08:13. > :08:17.cleaning materials, to brush your teeth, whatever. Ivy, bless her,
:08:17. > :08:20.she would take her money that came in once a weak, she would buy her
:08:20. > :08:23.electric and gas card and when that ran out, she had to go and live
:08:23. > :08:28.with her daugter in the cold weather because there was nothing
:08:29. > :08:33.else she could do -- daughter. There wasn't time to say Ivy had
:08:33. > :08:37.abuse in her family, she was illiterate so she couldn't read the
:08:37. > :08:41.bills, very honourably trying to pay off her debts, but there were
:08:41. > :08:46.so many problems. There is a bigger issue here because, in the end, we
:08:46. > :08:50.were able to rehouse Ivy within a week, so I was able to identify
:08:50. > :08:55.very quickly that she was living in a privately rented house that was
:08:55. > :08:59.way beyond what she was receiving from the Government by way of her
:08:59. > :09:02.rent allowance. So she had no disposable income really. It's not
:09:02. > :09:06.because it was us going in with a television crew. The reality is
:09:06. > :09:10.that the flat was there for her, in fact there were two flats available
:09:10. > :09:13.that day, but she had lost the will to live. She says in the
:09:13. > :09:16.documentary she wants to die and commit suicide a lot and admitted
:09:16. > :09:20.that to her family for the first time. But the reality and the
:09:20. > :09:25.bigger question is, who is going to be the catalyst to say to people,
:09:25. > :09:30.look, this help is available but you are so beaten down sadly in her
:09:30. > :09:34.on life that everything I said to her like, have you ever asked the
:09:34. > :09:37.Council for Another house, oh, no point, a four or five year waiting
:09:37. > :09:41.list, have you thought about getting a job, no point. Everything
:09:41. > :09:45.was no point so she was just so beaten so she needed a catalyst, as
:09:45. > :09:52.indeed a lot of other people in the documentary needed to get her out
:09:52. > :09:56.of that black hole. You spent time with those pensioners who have to
:09:56. > :10:01.count every penny? Every penny, every crumb. And have nothing spare
:10:01. > :10:04.and are short at the end of every week. You will know there is a
:10:04. > :10:08.feeling abroad, particularly in these tough economic times among
:10:08. > :10:11.younger pem that most old people have never had it so good? --
:10:11. > :10:15.people. I can't accept that, because you only have to lack at
:10:15. > :10:18.the facts and figures that the BBC programmes have praused and you
:10:18. > :10:22.only have to look at the information coming out of proposed
:10:22. > :10:27.White Papers about how we have to help people who're getting older.
:10:27. > :10:31.The reality is, we are all living longer and you may be surprised to
:10:31. > :10:39.know that 25% of all the babies born today will live to be over 100.
:10:39. > :10:44.As much as 25%? At the moment, there are 12,500 people over 100
:10:44. > :10:47.but 25% of babies born now will live to over 100. So it shows you
:10:47. > :10:53.the problem in this country. There are so many issues about the
:10:53. > :10:56.elderly. I think a lot of it comes back to attitude. Attitude to how
:10:56. > :10:59.people age themselves and their attitude to keeping themselves busy
:11:00. > :11:05.or active or healthy, also attitude towards the elderly because I
:11:05. > :11:09.believe that the elderly in this country feel invisible. Compared to
:11:09. > :11:12.other countries, Spain, Italy, France, you know, the grandparents
:11:12. > :11:17.are the linchpin of the family, their opinion is sought and valued.
:11:17. > :11:21.That's what I think we are missing in this country, it's culture.
:11:21. > :11:24.culture as much as economics. Absolutely. Michael, what Gloria is
:11:25. > :11:31.saying is fascinating. The broad outlines we have known for quite a
:11:31. > :11:35.long time what's happening, we see the dem graph ibs, yet Government
:11:35. > :11:38.after Government, of all political persuasions has failed and I
:11:38. > :11:41.suggest people probably feel this latest White Paper is part of that
:11:41. > :11:47.failure? First of all, let me say, I think the thing's going to get
:11:47. > :11:51.much worse because we are going to see quite shortly 50% of people of
:11:51. > :11:57.pensionable age being dependent on means tested assistance because
:11:57. > :12:01.very few people now are saving for private pensions or have pensions
:12:01. > :12:04.other than the basic state retirement pension which doesn't
:12:04. > :12:08.lift you above the poverty line so you have to have extra help.
:12:08. > :12:12.Increasing numbers of people will be in that position and living for
:12:12. > :12:16.longer, so they'll be for decades in poverty. They'll be much poorer
:12:16. > :12:19.than they were in work, poorer than people who're still in work and
:12:19. > :12:23.poorer than people in other European countries. I think that's
:12:23. > :12:26.going to be a very difficult position to sustain politically or
:12:26. > :12:30.socially. By contrast, the thing that there was the most debate
:12:30. > :12:33.about in the Government's plans this week was about something
:12:33. > :12:38.completely different which was about how people going into care
:12:38. > :12:42.homes can be allowed to keep hold of the houses they own. I'm sorry
:12:42. > :12:46.to say that I'm contemptuous of this proposal because not in all
:12:46. > :12:50.cases but in many cases what this is actually about is not the care
:12:50. > :12:54.of the elderly but guaranteeing the inheritance of middle class
:12:54. > :12:58.children of their middle class parents' properties. For the
:12:58. > :13:01.Government to be thinking ability how the welfare state could be made
:13:01. > :13:04.bigger under pressure from middle class newspapers like the Daily
:13:04. > :13:09.Telegraph and the Daily Mail, beggars belief. That was something
:13:09. > :13:12.that frightened Labour, wasn't it? There was talk about death taxes
:13:12. > :13:16.and so on and nothing again was done? Michael's right, there are
:13:16. > :13:20.two issues here, the issue about how we deal with pensioners in the
:13:20. > :13:24.future and how we ensure everyone has an occupational pension which
:13:24. > :13:27.was a large part in the past as to why the state pension was so low
:13:27. > :13:30.because people had occupational pensions, they are disappearing,
:13:30. > :13:34.there is a consensus how to deal with that, raise the state pension
:13:34. > :13:38.gradually, make sure people are covered for the future. On adult
:13:38. > :13:42.social care, there is a consensus emerging from the Dilnot Report but
:13:42. > :13:46.what Andrew Lansley failed to do - he did a lot of good things, saying
:13:46. > :13:51.there should be an expectation of a consistent service around the
:13:51. > :13:56.country, not the postcode lottery we have at the moment. Which is
:13:56. > :14:01.very good. And more help for carers, but he didn't take the crunch issue.
:14:01. > :14:05.Michael disagrees I think. He's got a point about some aspects of this,
:14:05. > :14:08.but the statistics are very clear, Dilnot showed that you are going to
:14:08. > :14:16.have so many people in the future who're unable to, who the NHS say
:14:16. > :14:21.you are fit to go back to your home but you need help to deal with
:14:21. > :14:26.hygiene and food. There is no consistent way as to how that help
:14:26. > :14:31.will be provided. May I be devil's advocate. How can we put billions
:14:31. > :14:35.of pounds into overseas aid, which I'm for, obviously to a point, but
:14:35. > :14:39.how can we put all that money into overseas aid and not look after the
:14:39. > :14:44.people who have worked very hard, paid taxes and national insurance,
:14:44. > :14:47.saved their money, they haven't bumed off the state or been sitting
:14:47. > :14:52.taking handout, they've actually worked very hard. Another example,
:14:52. > :14:56.I know a family where they had tailored the house toward their
:14:56. > :15:01.disabled daughter, yet when the last parent went into an elderly
:15:01. > :15:06.home, that house "by law" had to be sold and that girl had to go on and
:15:06. > :15:10.live in another house for the disabled. That is a good example
:15:10. > :15:12.for your argument... It's the truth. But there are plenty of middle
:15:12. > :15:16.class families here looking for help with social care living in
:15:16. > :15:21.homes that are worth a lot of money and we seem to give priority to
:15:21. > :15:24.their ability to pass that money on or that home on as an inheritance.
:15:24. > :15:33.You have worked hard for what you have got, do Younesly want to give
:15:33. > :15:42.it up to the Government when you It up to the Government when you
:15:42. > :15:47.get old? People say we save for a rainy day, and that rainy day has
:15:47. > :15:51.come. There's a dignity about being able to live on your own resources
:15:51. > :15:59.without living on the state, if you can do that. No-one is sucting that
:15:59. > :16:04.the state should pay for all this. There was a Royal Commission, the
:16:04. > :16:11.report by the late Derek Wanless and then Dilnot. The consensus you
:16:11. > :16:18.have to share the cost, if you can afford it. They didn't put a
:16:18. > :16:23.ceiling at �35,000, which is a reasonable amount for young people
:16:23. > :16:26.to ring-fence for their future but today the possibility is up to
:16:26. > :16:30.�100,000. These are really important problems. We are all
:16:30. > :16:35.saying they are going to get worse. When you hear politicians talk
:16:35. > :16:39.about this, what do you think? Since I've lived with Ivy for the
:16:39. > :16:44.four days, in a care home for four days, it has sharply brought it
:16:44. > :16:49.home to me first of all how some people are having to live on the
:16:49. > :16:53.breadline and below it. I personally have ring-fenced my
:16:53. > :16:59.money so that if and when I have to have help, I hope to avoid the
:16:59. > :17:03.elderly care home. It could be a 10-star luxury hotel, but I would
:17:03. > :17:09.rather be at home. I've planned for mine. Maybe the way forward is a
:17:09. > :17:15.type of planning. I thought the Dilnot Report was great, when it
:17:15. > :17:18.said this magical figure of �35,000 as a cap would be a reasonable
:17:18. > :17:25.figure. But it is magical, because we don't know where the taxpayer's
:17:25. > :17:28.money is coming from. Maybe take the overseas aid and apportion it
:17:28. > :17:31.differently. Gloria, thank you. Now, it's late, but it's Friday
:17:31. > :17:34.tomorrow, so you may as well finish the bottle. Oh, you have already?
:17:34. > :17:36.Well, open another, because coming up, actor Stephen Mangan is
:17:36. > :17:40.displaying his emotional intelligence in the face of our
:17:40. > :17:43.tired and emotional incontinence. And for those who know how it feels
:17:43. > :17:46.to cry like a baby, don't forget we ignore all your comments on The
:17:46. > :17:52.Twitter, The Fleecebook and the good old missionary position
:17:52. > :17:54.Interweb. Now, as we struggle through the
:17:54. > :18:00.wettest drought on record, this interminable rain is causing the
:18:00. > :18:03.country severe problems: rotten food, rotten flooding. But most
:18:03. > :18:11.devastating of all - which nobody has yet bothered to mention - but
:18:11. > :18:14.hasn't escaped our notice, look what it's doing to Michael's quiff!
:18:14. > :18:17.LAUGHTER Luckily we've found a break in the weather, and sent our
:18:17. > :18:20.very own ray of sunshine, Sky News's Adam Boulton, down to the
:18:20. > :18:30.allotments to check on his produce and give us his round-up of the
:18:30. > :18:45.
:18:45. > :18:52.We must all cultivate our gardens. The French President may well have
:18:52. > :18:59.reminded David Cameron of voluntary's famous words. At --
:18:59. > :19:05.Voltaire's famous words. Whether they opt for Corfu, Las
:19:05. > :19:10.Vegas or stay at home, they will have plenty of time to till the sod.
:19:10. > :19:20.But the recent wet weather has blighted just about everything.
:19:20. > :19:25.
:19:25. > :19:31.Vegetables, butterflies, and, well, Time was when the coalition was
:19:31. > :19:38.young and fresh, when the seeds of change were sewn, and David Cameron
:19:38. > :19:46.promised Nick Clegg he too would dig for progress. And now comes the
:19:46. > :19:52.harvest. A fresh crop of Lords reform for the Lib Dem leader to
:19:52. > :19:57.serve up to Parliament. At the heart of this Bill, Mr Speaker, is
:19:57. > :20:02.the vision of a House of Lords which is more modern, more
:20:02. > :20:07.representative and more legitimate. A chamber fit for the 21 century.
:20:07. > :20:12.Nick Clegg probably reckoned on fierce attack from the opposition.
:20:12. > :20:19.But not the volley of "friendly fire", raspberries, rotten tomatoes
:20:19. > :20:25.and the rest from the coalition's own Tory MPs. It is a tuney measure.
:20:25. > :20:31.It is an unwelcome measure and it will do far more harm than good.
:20:31. > :20:35.Many of us fear that by electing the second chamber, by gives it the
:20:35. > :20:40.greater elect Massey he's talking about, we will end up creating a
:20:40. > :20:43.rival to this chamber, rather than a revising chamber that we all want
:20:43. > :20:48.to see. Why don't we all vote against House of Lords reform
:20:48. > :20:53.tomorrow and then we will end the sad unmourned life as coalition. We
:20:53. > :20:58.can have a general election, and a Conservative Government.
:20:58. > :21:03.As debate began, it was getting obvious there was a new unholy
:21:03. > :21:07.coalition of more than 100 rebel Tory MPs and Labour who simply
:21:07. > :21:14.wouldn't have it. Without a timetable motion, Lords reform
:21:14. > :21:18.would never reach the surface. An angry David Cameron pulled the Bill,
:21:18. > :21:22.reportedly beetroot red as he confronted the rebel leader, Jesse
:21:22. > :21:27.Norman. We understand it was fisticuffs in the lobby with the
:21:27. > :21:31.Member for Hereford and South Hertfordshire. Tax cuts for million
:21:31. > :21:35.airs, double dip recession, U-turn after U-turn after U-turn, isn't
:21:35. > :21:43.the truth he didn't just lose the confidence of his party last night.
:21:43. > :21:47.He's losing the confidence of the country?
:21:47. > :21:52.An easy Question Time cricketry for Ed Miliband, leaving David Cameron
:21:52. > :21:58.with a tricky problem of how to appease his own rebels and the
:21:58. > :22:03.Liberal Democrats. His solution - one more more modest effort at
:22:03. > :22:08.Lords reform in the autumn, but in if that's block he won't go on with
:22:08. > :22:12.no end in sight, and Lords reform will go back on the scrap heap. All
:22:12. > :22:16.of which is big kudos for Ed Miliband. But nobody thinks the
:22:17. > :22:21.coalition is going to break up over this, and some Labour supporters
:22:21. > :22:31.are wondering if it is quite so clever to block the best chance in
:22:31. > :22:48.
:22:48. > :22:53.50 years of getting rid of the Meanwhile it was pitch forks at
:22:53. > :22:57.dawn as the Shadow Chancellor demanded that the Chancellor
:22:57. > :23:03.retract his suggestion that he, Ed Balls, had somehow been caught up
:23:03. > :23:06.in the Barclays LIBOR scandal. any Government Minister from the
:23:06. > :23:13.last Government ever encourage you to lean on Barclays or any other
:23:13. > :23:18.bank to lower the LIBOR submissions? Absolutely not.
:23:18. > :23:22.Balls ever ask you... No. Or any other Government Minister?
:23:22. > :23:32.Following, that even some Tory MPs think Mr Osborne should apologise.
:23:32. > :23:36.Fat chance. There was an apology of sorts, however, from Marcus age us
:23:36. > :23:43.-- Marcus Agius, the outgoing chairman of Barclays Bank. He
:23:43. > :23:49.informed MPs that, after all, Bob Diamond would only be taking �2
:23:49. > :23:55.million of his �20 million golden goodbye, and B, that it was
:23:55. > :24:01.absolutely Diamond Bob's own decision to walk the plank. He was,
:24:01. > :24:07.he was not in a good player, as you can imagine. You were handing him a
:24:07. > :24:14.loaded revolver went you? conversation was not long. He asked
:24:14. > :24:20.for time to talk to his family. what happens 2010 season of mellow
:24:20. > :24:25.fruitfulness arrives? Well, Nick Clegg at best can look forward to a
:24:25. > :24:29.mildewed serving of Lords reform. And even that may be enough to give
:24:29. > :24:34.David Cameron the collie wobbles as he tries to deadhead his Cabinet.
:24:34. > :24:40.But hey, the Olympics are going to be a success, and Tony Blair's
:24:41. > :24:50.clambered back on board the Labour bandwagon. MPs are back in
:24:50. > :24:54.September. And until then, goodbye and good gardening.
:24:54. > :25:00.Worzel Gummidge, or was it Adam Boulton in the allotments at
:25:00. > :25:04.Vauxhall City farm. We are joined by Miranda Green again. Welcome
:25:04. > :25:09.back. House of Lords reform. How big is the shambles for Clegg and
:25:09. > :25:14.the coalition? Well, it is serious for Nick Clegg, because in order to
:25:14. > :25:19.carry on in the coalition until 2015, as promised, to have a big
:25:19. > :25:24.win on one of your own priorities like House of Lords reform would be
:25:24. > :25:28.enormously helpful. Without it it is sort of bayonets fixed marching
:25:28. > :25:32.against driving rain until the general election, so it is pretty
:25:32. > :25:38.tough for him if it goes down. But they've decided to give David
:25:38. > :25:42.Cameron the summer to try to quell the rebellion on his own side, Mike
:25:42. > :25:46.compromises and see where we get to in the autumn. It depends on the
:25:46. > :25:52.Labour Party. Why do I get the feeling that this Lord reform is
:25:52. > :25:57.more important for Mr Clegg than for his party? Well, that's an
:25:57. > :26:01.interesting way of putting it. With any leader there's a legacy issue
:26:01. > :26:06.isn't there? But I think it is important to Lib Dems. It is
:26:06. > :26:10.important to the rank and file. Many people join the Liberal
:26:10. > :26:16.Democrat party because they are passionately interested in the
:26:16. > :26:22.political system and who it operates properly. But I think, as
:26:22. > :26:25.I said, It is more important to him than his party? If you have this
:26:25. > :26:30.extraordinary opportunity to be part of government after decades as
:26:30. > :26:33.a minority opposition party... you've lost the AV referendum.
:26:33. > :26:36.you've lost the AV referendum, you want to come away with something
:26:36. > :26:43.that you've made a huge difference to the nation's political life.
:26:43. > :26:47.What's the significance of the Tory rebellion? Well, not many Prime
:26:47. > :26:51.Ministers have to see 100 of their members of Parliament deifying the
:26:51. > :26:59.whip on something that's declared as being essential to the
:26:59. > :27:01.Government. 91, almost 100. 110 if you count the abstentions. Quite
:27:01. > :27:05.right. But on the other hand not many Prime Ministers find
:27:05. > :27:09.themselves backing a piece of legislation which their
:27:09. > :27:14.backbenchers can't believe they really back. This was the nature of
:27:14. > :27:17.the confrontation with Jesse Norman, that he had implyed if the Bill was
:27:17. > :27:23.brought down it would be doing the Prime Minister a favour. The Prime
:27:23. > :27:26.Minister objected to this line of art. But I'm afraid his objection
:27:26. > :27:30.hasn't led to most of us to believe that it was not true. The Prime
:27:30. > :27:34.Minister's heart could not have been in this Bill. The Prime
:27:34. > :27:37.Minister is now saying maybe if a smaller proportion were legislated,
:27:37. > :27:40.that might pass later in the year. But I would have thought the
:27:40. > :27:45.problem for most Conservatives is not the proportion that's elected,
:27:45. > :27:48.it's the manner of the election. These regional lists are anathema
:27:48. > :27:51.to Conservatives, because they seem to give all the power to parties.
:27:51. > :27:56.What you are doing is replacing a House of Lords at the moment which
:27:56. > :27:59.for all its faults, which are many, at sleest full of really
:27:59. > :28:04.interesting, independent-minded people, drawn from all walks of
:28:04. > :28:08.life. You are replacing that with up to 80% of people who are simply
:28:08. > :28:13.there because of their party apparatchiks. Labour has always
:28:13. > :28:18.wanted or wanted for a long time, yourself included Alan, an elected
:28:19. > :28:23.House of Lords. It is within its grasp now. But if it plays the
:28:23. > :28:28.procedural card, it won't get it. think first of all, reflecting over
:28:28. > :28:32.the summer, if I was Clegg and Cameron and I wanted to get it
:28:32. > :28:38.through, it's been Tory party policy since at least Michael
:28:38. > :28:42.Howard, in their 2005 manifesto. They should offer a referendum. The
:28:42. > :28:47.thargt all three parties had it in their manifesto makes it more
:28:47. > :28:51.necessary to have a referendum. -- the argument that all these parties
:28:51. > :28:55.had it in their manifesto makes it more necessary to have a referendum.
:28:55. > :29:00.The worst thing here, we know we are going to have a problem with
:29:00. > :29:05.the Lords. If you send it to the Lords and it hasn't been properly
:29:05. > :29:10.examined properly in the Commons, it comes back. I don't agree with
:29:10. > :29:14.Michael on this. George Young pointed out an incredible statistic.
:29:14. > :29:19.75% of the Lords were appointed by five people. Five individuals.
:29:19. > :29:23.Prime Ministers. And as for a list system, it is semi open, the public
:29:23. > :29:30.can vote for a party if they wish, for an individual on the party list,
:29:30. > :29:40.if they wish, or for an independent. 14% of the current House of Lords
:29:40. > :29:44.
:29:44. > :29:46.has to be male, because it's a But in your heart of hearts, do you
:29:46. > :29:50.really expect the summer to make any difference because the Tory MPs
:29:50. > :29:54.I've spoken to, they are up with it, they've got rebellion, you know, as
:29:54. > :29:58.one Tory MP said to me, it's adultery, a bit difficult to first
:29:58. > :30:04.time you do it, once you get if hang of it, it's dead easy? Yes,
:30:04. > :30:08.well they may feel that. They do. think this is important because
:30:08. > :30:12.what we haven't had much of is a debate about the merits of the case
:30:12. > :30:15.or other waiz, we have had a lot of noise and heat about Parliamentary
:30:15. > :30:20.procedure which is extremely confusing to the public as a whole
:30:20. > :30:24.probably. If you are on to the merits of the case, as Michael said,
:30:24. > :30:27.the public do not want a partyless system. They think that's terrible
:30:27. > :30:31.because the parties determine who is on it and you have very little
:30:31. > :30:36.say. They certainly don't want to elect somebody for 15 years with no
:30:36. > :30:39.recall at all? Well, as Alan points out, it's an open list so you can
:30:39. > :30:44.vote for an individual, it's not determined by the parties and the
:30:44. > :30:47.15 years was put together so that it doesn't challenge the House of
:30:47. > :30:52.Commons as the pre-eminent chamber so there are very good arguments in
:30:52. > :30:55.favour of this particular package. But also, really if we end up with
:30:55. > :31:00.a referendum, we have to make the case for change and I don't think
:31:00. > :31:04.that's happened yet. In a way, there's a chance for people on all
:31:04. > :31:08.sides who're serious about reform like Alan like David Miliband who
:31:08. > :31:12.made a significant intervention this week to work together and make
:31:12. > :31:18.a case. Take is punt, is the Bill dead or not? Jay I don't think so.
:31:18. > :31:23.I think it is. I hope it's not. know you hope it's not. I don't
:31:23. > :31:27.think it is because I'm very encouraged by the noises from
:31:27. > :31:34.people like David Miliband. They want to keep up the agony, don't
:31:35. > :31:38.they. They are being honourable about it. One of the most amazing
:31:38. > :31:41.features by David Cameron, which has been true since the election
:31:41. > :31:45.onwards, is hue few favours he has in the Tory favour bank when it
:31:45. > :31:50.comes to the backbenches and he's got very little to call on now.
:31:50. > :31:55.When we come back in September, we'll see. Ed Miliband, speaking of
:31:55. > :31:58.another leader, is he doing well or is it just the Government's doing
:31:58. > :32:03.badly? The Government is doing very badly and that's the best possible
:32:03. > :32:06.thing that can happen to a Leader of the Opposition. That having been
:32:06. > :32:10.said, I've said for quite a long time I didn't think he was doing
:32:10. > :32:13.badly. I said that at a time when most of the Labour Party didn't
:32:13. > :32:16.agrae with me. I don't think he's been that bad. I think the public
:32:16. > :32:21.still have a problem with him, they don't like the way he speaks or
:32:21. > :32:24.looks, but those are, you know, trivial issues, they may in the end
:32:24. > :32:29.be de-ice f with the electorate, but as far as an appreciation by
:32:29. > :32:35.analysts is concerned, he's not doing too badly. And maybe that's
:32:35. > :32:39.reflected in the fact that Labour is depending on the polls, it's
:32:39. > :32:43.about serve tonne ten points ahead. In the the grand scheme, that's not
:32:43. > :32:47.a great position to be in a Government that goes from
:32:47. > :32:51.omnishambles to omnishambles, living standards falling, being
:32:51. > :32:56.squeezed more than any other time since the 20s and we are probably
:32:56. > :33:05.now in our third consecutive quarter of neg tuf growth? It's not
:33:05. > :33:13.a bad pox to be in -- negative. Blair was 20-253079s ahead? That
:33:13. > :33:17.was a different time. -- 20-25 points. We lost two or three
:33:17. > :33:21.elections. Ed's thrfrpled his confidence, he's relaxed --
:33:21. > :33:26.transformed. He did a press gallery lunch and he was very good. That's
:33:26. > :33:30.part of him just relaxing into the job. You see that at Prime
:33:30. > :33:34.Minister's Questions. I know that's not the beall and end all as to how
:33:34. > :33:44.you are doing as an Leader of the Opposition. But David Cameron can
:33:44. > :33:44.
:33:44. > :33:49.dish it out but can't take it. have got very little time so this
:33:49. > :33:52.is a yes no interlude. Two quick questions. Do you still think
:33:52. > :33:56.coalition will survive through to the election or will we move to a
:33:57. > :34:01.minority Tory Government? I think it will survive but even as of now,
:34:01. > :34:06.I think you will see much more that divides the parties than unites
:34:06. > :34:10.them. Will Mr Clegg lead his party into the next election? My money
:34:10. > :34:13.would be on that. An interesting way of putting it. She answered
:34:13. > :34:18.both questions. Yes the coalition will be there because the Lib Dems
:34:18. > :34:21.don't want to go anywhere near the electorate just now and neither do
:34:21. > :34:26.the Tories, I don't think Clegg will be there. The first one is
:34:26. > :34:31.clearly yes and yes for the second one as well but with less certainty.
:34:31. > :34:35.I think it's looking more likely that the the parties go their
:34:35. > :34:41.separate ways in 014, but the Tory also run as a minority, it won't
:34:41. > :34:44.provoke an election, administration until 2015 and it's 50/50 that Mr
:34:44. > :34:48.Clegg will lead his party. You can put that on the iPlayer and check
:34:48. > :34:52.in the next couple of years. Thank you for being with us. When This
:34:52. > :34:56.Week loses its cool, it can only mean one thing, we failed to send a
:34:56. > :35:03.car for Alan Johnson. When a Government loses its cool, things
:35:03. > :35:11.are far less serious. Does it matter if call we Dave had a temper
:35:11. > :35:15.tantrum and threatened big Jessie Norman with a bunch of fives. Ed
:35:15. > :35:20.Balls was accused of big in the LIBOR scandal, what does he expect
:35:20. > :35:24.anyway, a personal apology from the Treasury scapegoat also known as
:35:24. > :35:28.Chloe Smith on Boy George's behalf? I don't think so. That's why we
:35:28. > :35:38.decided to drop our stiff upper lip for once and put emotions in This
:35:38. > :35:49.
:35:49. > :35:52.All right, I'm going to try this and it's not going to be easy.
:35:52. > :35:58.Murray's finally won something, the hearts of the British public. After
:35:58. > :36:01.showing his emoss when he lost the Wimbledon final -- emotions. More
:36:01. > :36:06.tissues please. Moon while footballer John Terry's
:36:06. > :36:10.busy defending his reputation after an unsporting outburst on the pitch
:36:10. > :36:14.put him in the court of law and public opinion. I've been called a
:36:14. > :36:21.lot of things in my football career and outside of football as well but
:36:21. > :36:26.being a racist is not one. And the bad tempered atmosphere has
:36:26. > :36:35.reached parent with George Osborne refauzing to apologise for sledging
:36:35. > :36:38.his opposite number -- refusing to apologise for sledging his opposite
:36:39. > :36:41.number. The man who sneered his way through 13 years of Labour
:36:41. > :36:46.Government is another thing. Although the Prime Minister isn't
:36:46. > :36:51.setting a very good example. If reports of his confrontation with
:36:51. > :36:59.rebel MP Jessie Norman are to be believed. So how easy is it to
:36:59. > :37:09.control your emotions? Let's ask Tory MP Ann-Marie Morris. And the
:37:09. > :37:10.
:37:10. > :37:18.funding is available so universities... Calm down, dear, as
:37:18. > :37:24.someone once said. That sling was clearly a fake, you
:37:24. > :37:27.could wiggle your arm around like that. Stephen Mangan, welcome to
:37:28. > :37:31.This Week. Being a good actor means you have to do a range of emotions,
:37:31. > :37:37.are some easier than others? Yes, I suppose the ones you have always
:37:37. > :37:42.felt are useful or handy to get your way, so, you know, getting
:37:42. > :37:47.angry with someone, they're probably easier, the tarker ones,
:37:47. > :37:53.but the ones you are always taught to hide, especially if you are a
:37:53. > :37:58.man, like to cry, is hard. Elation is a difficult one, but that
:37:59. > :38:01.probably says more about me. You have an interesting example
:38:01. > :38:05.about playing emotions that don't come naturally because you are
:38:05. > :38:08.playing a pregnant man on the stage? Fpblts giving birth nightly,
:38:09. > :38:13.gave birth to a beautiful girl this evening. You should have brought
:38:13. > :38:17.her along? Vished brought her along. Obviously for a man, that's not a
:38:17. > :38:22.natural emotion to have. Does that make it more difficult? Can't think
:38:22. > :38:27.of a period in another man's life, women obviously for real, than
:38:27. > :38:32.giving birth, the range of emotions that wash over you in that 24 hours
:38:33. > :38:36.isen incredible, from not just the anxiety, pain and fear, but also
:38:36. > :38:41.boredom, elation, misery and important know ya, yes. You played
:38:41. > :38:45.Tony Blair as well? Yes. We always lacked a Mr Blair, certainly for
:38:45. > :38:51.public consumption, as a man who kept his emotions under control?
:38:51. > :38:58.You always felt, well I always felt with him that he yes, almost felt
:38:58. > :39:04.he was the star in his own movie all the time. He had a feeling of
:39:04. > :39:09.like he was aware of his own charisma. He wasn't just in control
:39:09. > :39:12.of his own emotions but also dared to act a bit, to take on emotions
:39:12. > :39:18.he was not maybe necessarily feeling at the time. That speech he
:39:18. > :39:22.gave when Diana died, the people's Princess speech which at the time
:39:22. > :39:27.really caught the public's imagination. If you look at it now,
:39:27. > :39:32.looks like a man seriously overacting. It did at the time
:39:32. > :39:35.actually. I mean, he really went for it. He did always seem like a
:39:35. > :39:39.man in his own movie because everything seemed lauck an act and
:39:39. > :39:43.you got the impression he was watching himself from the outside -
:39:43. > :39:50.- like an act. He fiddled with his button and it was like, I'm here
:39:50. > :39:53.and everyone knows I'm here and he was a man at peace with his own
:39:53. > :39:57.aura. Emotions become most exciting when we see a particular emotion
:39:57. > :40:01.from somebody we didn't expect was capable of it so we'd seen the
:40:01. > :40:05.angry Andy Murray but not the blubber? It's funny isn't it, yes,
:40:05. > :40:09.it's the emotions you feel they are trying to suppress are always the
:40:09. > :40:13.interesting ones, now we are seeing something they are trying to hide,
:40:14. > :40:17.the real person. Andy Murray, you know, people are saying he suddenly
:40:17. > :40:21.became emotional, he's been very emotional, there's a lot of anger,
:40:21. > :40:26.disappointment and shame and all sorts of emotions wash through him.
:40:26. > :40:29.Surely the emotions he needs are the emotions to make him a good
:40:29. > :40:32.tennis player but suddenly we see him crying and we like that.
:40:32. > :40:36.Emotions are tricky for politicians aren't they? Very much so. I want
:40:36. > :40:41.first of all to say that I'm a complete failure in all these areas
:40:41. > :40:45.because I some timeed lost my temper and on the last day I left
:40:45. > :40:48.the Ministry of Defence, I was pretty emotional about that and a
:40:48. > :40:52.few people might remember that. As I said at the beginning of the
:40:52. > :40:56.programme, on the whole, these explosive emotions by politicians
:40:56. > :41:00.are very dangerous and unhelpful. I'm very pleased there's still a
:41:00. > :41:03.lot of admiration left for Federer and Federer I think is actually the
:41:03. > :41:08.model that should be followed by Prime Ministers and by other
:41:09. > :41:13.politicians. You know, somebody who is very approachable and
:41:13. > :41:16.charismatic but who keeps emotions under control and delivers a
:41:16. > :41:21.consistent performance. Swiss emotions rather than Scottish?
:41:21. > :41:27.didn't know Scottish emotions were of that order until I saw Andy
:41:27. > :41:34.Murray. I'd been let to believe the Scottish were made of sterner stuff.
:41:34. > :41:38.Mr Cameron has a reputation for anger doesn't he? Carl Turner the
:41:38. > :41:42.MP for East Hull raised that. He said he never raised his voice, but
:41:42. > :41:46.Jessie Norman was luke this with Cameron's finger in his face. We
:41:46. > :41:50.won the higher Education Bill by four votes and had 177 majority.
:41:50. > :41:55.There are a lot of Labour rebels. Tony Blair did a lot of things but
:41:55. > :42:00.you could never imagine him reacting like that and I think it's
:42:00. > :42:03.a problem for Cameron, the flashman description. It's one thing when
:42:03. > :42:09.you see it occasionally at the despatch borbgs another thing about
:42:09. > :42:13.when you hear what he's doing o today a very decent Member of
:42:13. > :42:17.Parliament, like Michael said, Jessie Norman. You worry if a
:42:17. > :42:21.politician can't control themselves, you know, how are they supposed
:42:22. > :42:27.to... I mean Gordon Brown had a temper, Ted Heath, Margaret
:42:27. > :42:31.Thatcher could turn it on when she needed to. Gordon Brown was full of
:42:31. > :42:38.emotions. You felt he wasn't in control of unlike Blair. We didn't
:42:39. > :42:43.like most of them either? No, no. It's funny when he left office and
:42:43. > :42:48.spoke outside Number Ten and said I'm going to the best job with his
:42:49. > :42:55.kids, your heart suddenly opened up to him. Gordon Brown and Andy
:42:55. > :42:58.Murray, the comparisons are extn sieve. In 1997, you lost your seat,
:42:58. > :43:02.you had to control yourself, you must have been feeling something or
:43:02. > :43:06.o they are than what you were portraying to the cameras that
:43:06. > :43:08.night? To some extent that's true although I felt a great sense of
:43:08. > :43:12.relief that, I knew the Conservatives were going to lose
:43:12. > :43:17.the election, what I didn't want to do was to be involved in Sa
:43:17. > :43:24.leadership election to lead a rump party. You are at the Royal Court
:43:24. > :43:29.in Chelsea? That's right and until August 11th. Birthday is the play.
:43:29. > :43:35.Being on the stage is great? recommend it to any man, giving
:43:35. > :43:42.birth. Saw it last night. I've seen every episode of Episodes, will
:43:42. > :43:46.there be another? Hope so. We are waiting for the BBC to make up
:43:46. > :43:52.their mind. I'll put in another word with the new DG. That's it.
:43:52. > :43:57.It's the retro New Labour night at Annabel's apparently, Tony Blair's
:43:57. > :44:02.advising Ed Miliband on legacy issues. I'll give you one for frae
:44:02. > :44:06.Ed, never ever invade Iraq -- free. We leave you tonight with news that
:44:06. > :44:09.the French are having another bout of extestential angst, they are