:00:11. > :00:17.Tonight This Week heads deep into the political jungle. President
:00:17. > :00:22.Obama is voted four more years in the White House. Talk show host
:00:22. > :00:29.Piers Morgan judges just how much talent he's got. Historian Sharm
:00:29. > :00:38.El-Sheikh will be giving his view from the -- Simon Schama will be
:00:38. > :00:42.giving his view from the cabin. Nadine Dorries swaps the snakes in
:00:42. > :00:46.Westminster for bushtucker trials in the TV reality jungle We've got
:00:46. > :00:51.one MP in the Australian outback and the Prime Minister in the
:00:51. > :00:54.desert, yet the Westminster Jungle still full of creepy-crawlies.
:00:54. > :01:00.who will secure the people's vote in the rainforest? With politicians
:01:00. > :01:05.all over the world desperate to be popular, former Coronation street
:01:05. > :01:11.star and Celebrity Big Brother winner, Denise Welch, is in the
:01:11. > :01:17.celebrity chest. All Loose Women want to be popular, Andrew.
:01:17. > :01:20.Andrew Neil, get me out of here! Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week,
:01:20. > :01:23.the cold bikini shower of BBC current affairs. And you join us in
:01:23. > :01:29.yet another lather about nothing of any importance. Forget Obama versus
:01:29. > :01:33.Romney - whatevs! There's only one thing we care about tonight: the
:01:33. > :01:36.cat-fight we've all been waiting for - Mensch versus Dorries. The
:01:36. > :01:41.ex-celebrity MP for Corby versus the ex-Conservative MP for Mid-
:01:41. > :01:48.Bedfordshire. The sort of contest in which sensible folk want both to
:01:48. > :01:55.lose. Two Tory deserters who've gone west, and east, in search of
:01:55. > :01:58.fame, fortune and column inches. And while Nadine prepares to sink
:01:58. > :02:01.her molars into a kangaroo penis, Louise has sunk hers into Nadine,
:02:01. > :02:07.with an audacious attack on Naughty Nad's decision to bring fantasy
:02:07. > :02:10.politics to reality television. "She must have had some idea how
:02:10. > :02:15.unpopular this move would be," says Louise, who turned her back on
:02:15. > :02:21.Parliament after only two years. It's "demeaning of the role of an
:02:21. > :02:24.MP" says the star of a GQ photo spread. "People expect their
:02:24. > :02:28.politicians to do more than appear on game shows" says the woman who
:02:28. > :02:31.appeared on Have I Got News For You. "Performing humiliating tasks on
:02:31. > :02:39.air is not consistent with being an MP, unless you're retired or
:02:39. > :02:43.desperate" says the woman who was once a guest on the This Week sofa.
:02:43. > :02:46.And it doesn't get any more humiliating or desperate than that.
:02:46. > :02:49.Speaking of those without sin, but who are always ready to cast the
:02:49. > :02:52.first stone, I'm joined tonight by a boy band lacking any direction,
:02:52. > :02:59.never mind one direction - the Zayn Malik and Harry Styles of late
:02:59. > :03:09.night political chat. I speak of course of #manontheleft Alan 'AJ'
:03:09. > :03:15.
:03:15. > :03:22.Johnson. And #sadmanonatrain Michael 'choo choo' Portillo.
:03:22. > :03:28.Thank you for the plug Didn't mention the programme: Moment of
:03:28. > :03:32.the week. I think probably the appointment of Justin Welby as the
:03:32. > :03:37.next Archbishop of Canterbury. Partly because it demonstrates that
:03:37. > :03:44.Downing Street is incapable of keeping a secret. Or of appointing
:03:44. > :03:51.someone who hasn't been to Eton. That was my punch line. They've
:03:51. > :03:57.gone to Rowan Williams to a man who owned -- who earned �100,000 a year
:03:57. > :04:02.at one stage. And is famous for conflict resolution. I want to wish
:04:02. > :04:06.him well, as I think the Church of England is fundamentally a good
:04:07. > :04:12.institution. It is great at last to see an Etonian getting to the top
:04:12. > :04:17.of establishment. It is. I was uplifted to have an Etonian as
:04:17. > :04:22.Prime Minister and as Archbishop of Canterbury. Once again church and
:04:22. > :04:27.state have come together like the good old days. My moment of the
:04:27. > :04:31.week is the living wage on Monday. I was the Minister when we
:04:31. > :04:34.introduced the national living wage. Many people said it is not a living
:04:34. > :04:39.wage. It is not suppose to do so be. I think this idea, and there's
:04:39. > :04:47.legislation around that, this is a voluntary movement. There's
:04:47. > :04:51.companies like KPMG and Lloyds et cetera, and �8.55 in London, �7.45
:04:51. > :04:56.outside. Regional differences? That's the national minimum wage
:04:56. > :05:00.there are no differences. But the living wage, which is supported by
:05:00. > :05:06.Conservatives and Labour. And by Boris. Does the Labour Party pay
:05:06. > :05:12.the living wage in London? We do. If you have to pay more for
:05:12. > :05:16.something you can buy less of it. We've done the living wage. It is
:05:16. > :05:20.not an encyclopedia of the week, just a moment.
:05:20. > :05:23.Now, thousands of miles travelled, billions of dollars spent. Yes,
:05:23. > :05:25.Michael's train journeys are an expensive drain on the BBC. But I
:05:25. > :05:29.digress. The US presidential campaign was an extravagance too,
:05:29. > :05:35.and for what? The incumbent re- elected, the House still controlled
:05:35. > :05:37.by the Republicans, and the Senate by the Democrats. Other than the
:05:37. > :05:45.Fox News bloviators looking especially glum, what's really
:05:45. > :05:55.changed? And what, if any, are the lessons for our own politicians?
:05:55. > :06:03.
:06:03. > :06:09.We've asked CNN's Piers Morgan for The battleground state of Ohio for
:06:09. > :06:12.President Barack Obama, which means you are looking at the President of
:06:13. > :06:17.the United States. This has been my first time covering an American
:06:17. > :06:21.election over here in America. It was an incredibly exciting
:06:21. > :06:25.experience. It was incredibly long. From start to finish, from the
:06:25. > :06:29.start of the Republican nominee race it is nearly two years in the
:06:29. > :06:33.gestation period. So by the end everyone is heartily fed up with it.
:06:33. > :06:40.For me Obama's victory this time round was more impressive than the
:06:40. > :06:44.first time. The first time he came in on the back of a very unpopular
:06:44. > :06:48.President, George W Bush, and he was able to sell hope and change in
:06:48. > :06:52.a way that was dynamic and fresh. It was no surprise that he won
:06:52. > :06:57.easily against John McCain. This time round it was a much harder
:06:57. > :07:01.battle for him, because you are talking about a country with 8%
:07:01. > :07:06.unemployment, $16 trillion of debt. There is no logical reason why
:07:06. > :07:09.Obama should win. He won I think through brilliant campaigning and
:07:10. > :07:14.being able to strategise the simple prim is. Things were so bad when we
:07:14. > :07:19.got in that it took us a while to even get things back to normality.
:07:19. > :07:23.Now we can put our foot on the gas and really make a difference.
:07:23. > :07:28.Romney's big problem I think was he was able to communicate what he
:07:28. > :07:32.stood for. The reason for that is that he's an odd mixture of in his
:07:32. > :07:39.personal life an incredibly principled man. He's a Mormon, a
:07:39. > :07:43.committed Mormon. It means he's never had an alcoholic drink or an
:07:43. > :07:48.illegal drug, November smoked a cigarette. He's never had an affair.
:07:48. > :07:54.He's been with the same woman since he was 17. However, in his
:07:54. > :08:00.political life he's about as unprincipled as a politician can
:08:00. > :08:05.get. He has flip-flopped on almost every major issue. Obama was true
:08:05. > :08:15.to himself and Romney was true to himself in this election. When
:08:15. > :08:19.Cameron and Miliband come to the election, be yourselves or you will
:08:19. > :08:27.regret it. I have got great hopes for Obama. I think it was
:08:27. > :08:36.impossible for anybody to live up to the messianic expectation. The
:08:36. > :08:42.wol world thought this guy is going to change the world. He inherited
:08:42. > :08:45.one of the biggest problems in history. Now he's got four more
:08:45. > :08:49.years. It doesn't matter if he is unpopular. He can take the
:08:49. > :08:55.decisions he really wants to take. But he's got to learn how to
:08:55. > :09:00.negotiate with Republicans. He's got to go to Washington and bash a
:09:00. > :09:05.few heads, play golf with them. He's played 106 games of golf in
:09:05. > :09:10.his first four years and only once with a Republican. Bomb needs to
:09:10. > :09:15.get on the golf course with John Boehner and other Republicans and
:09:15. > :09:19.start to do deals. If he can do that, he can go down as one of the
:09:19. > :09:23.great presidents. If he doesn't he will go down as somebody who
:09:23. > :09:28.promised a huge amount and came up short.
:09:28. > :09:36.Piers Morgan in his office in New York. To our office in Westminster,
:09:36. > :09:41.where we are joined by Hadley Freeman of the Guardian and Simon
:09:41. > :09:47.Schama. Was this a watershed election? I think it was actually,
:09:47. > :09:52.even though watershed is slightly an overused term. But it marks the
:09:52. > :09:56.end of the Karl Rove machine being able to depend on white males to
:09:56. > :10:03.deliver an election providing you add to the white males many
:10:03. > :10:11.hundreds of millions of dollars. Was it a watershed in the way that
:10:11. > :10:17.1932 was a watershed, FDR, 1980 and Ronald Reagan. As an historian, is
:10:17. > :10:23.it the in that category of watershed? As a historian. Thank
:10:23. > :10:29.you. I said it twice. They are difference things. 1932, it was
:10:29. > :10:33.about ideology. This is not? It is a watershed in the nature of the
:10:33. > :10:39.democratic animal of American politics. There it is. There has to
:10:39. > :10:45.be a new kind of politics if the Republicans are going to survive.
:10:45. > :10:51.Is there really a new democratic majority, as some pundits are
:10:51. > :10:57.saying in America, for the foreseeable future? For the first
:10:57. > :11:02.time Caucasian births were in the minority. A huge expansion of
:11:02. > :11:06.Hispanics voting for Obama. What you also have to think about with
:11:06. > :11:11.this election is is it was a huge vote against the Republican Party
:11:11. > :11:14.and Mitt Romney as well. You that, but if it's a watershed and there's
:11:14. > :11:18.a new democratic majority, how can Obama won on a much reduced
:11:18. > :11:23.majority, indeed the lowest majority of any President of the be
:11:23. > :11:29.re-elected? The Republicans held the House, and 30 of the 50 State
:11:29. > :11:34.Governors of the United States are Republican? It is no good trying to
:11:34. > :11:38.turn this into a Republican. In the Senate they lost all but one of the
:11:38. > :11:44.races they were going for. Sometimes you measure the magnitude
:11:44. > :11:48.of political change, not just in terms of the pure figures of votes
:11:48. > :11:53.cast. It would take a very weird skewing I think to represent this
:11:53. > :12:00.as anything but a huge piece of damage to the Republican vote
:12:00. > :12:04.machine. OK. Michael, was it a watershed? I think it was in this
:12:04. > :12:09.sense that the Republican candidate needs to do one set of things to
:12:09. > :12:12.satisfy the activists of the Republican Party in order to be
:12:13. > :12:15.selected as a candidate and then do a different set of things in order
:12:16. > :12:20.to be elected as President. This gap between what the activists
:12:20. > :12:29.believe and what if general public believes is a very serious problem.
:12:29. > :12:33.That's why Romney flipped. He did exactly was needed to be selected
:12:33. > :12:37.and then what was needed to win the election. He didn't do the latter
:12:37. > :12:41.well enough. If that's your analysis of the Republican Party,
:12:41. > :12:46.is the Republican Party now going a learn these lessons quickly or is
:12:46. > :12:50.it in for a ferd of prolonged civil war? I would think probably the
:12:50. > :12:55.latter, because the right of the Republican Party at activist level
:12:55. > :12:59.has very tight control. I don't think the Republican Party has even
:12:59. > :13:03.begun the fightback against about activists capturing this small
:13:03. > :13:07.minority in charge of the party. In this country I believe we are
:13:07. > :13:09.further down this road, because at various times both the Conservative
:13:09. > :13:13.Party and the Labour Party have either been seized by their
:13:13. > :13:17.activists or have been under threat of being seized by their act
:13:17. > :13:25.activists and both have had to deploy major poss to get them out
:13:25. > :13:30.of that rut -- policys to guess them out of that rut. Those who
:13:31. > :13:36.would like to move the Republican centre more to the centre or have a
:13:36. > :13:41.rebirth, the activists, the Tea Party live it at church, at bake
:13:41. > :13:45.sales, in their schools. It is more almost like a secular church for
:13:45. > :13:50.them. They recite the constitution, the bits of it that find favour
:13:50. > :13:56.with them, as though it where are the Bible. America is a
:13:56. > :14:00.Commonwealth of these little republics of enthusiasm. When it
:14:00. > :14:03.becomes organically rooted it just takes a serious of political
:14:03. > :14:09.disasters... It's the most active part of the Republican Party and
:14:09. > :14:19.has been since 2009. Their candidates lost Indiana, which they
:14:19. > :14:19.
:14:19. > :14:24.should have won. Mr Murdock, with a K. They lost 50 seats. They are not
:14:24. > :14:28.the Republican Party and they could be in retreat as a Militant
:14:28. > :14:33.Tendency went into retreat after Mr Foot lost in 1973 with Labour.
:14:33. > :14:40.That's true. Some of them are saying the problem with the Romney
:14:40. > :14:43.candidacy is that it is too moderate. People like Murdock and
:14:43. > :14:48.people who spoke up for women lost out. Mr Boehner circuits his
:14:48. > :14:58.tendency that will win the day or does the Tea Party move to take
:14:58. > :15:00.
:15:00. > :15:06.There will have to be leadership on the issue. People like Romney will
:15:06. > :15:11.have to analyse the problem. Romney will be irrelevant now to the
:15:11. > :15:16.Republicans. Here is something for Labour to think about. What Mr
:15:16. > :15:21.Obama shows is that even in tough times, the incumbent can win.
:15:21. > :15:27.Cameron will draw some strength from that. But don't forget, Obama
:15:27. > :15:31.was there with Gordon Brown at the G8 summit in April 2009. It was
:15:31. > :15:36.Hank Paulson and Bush that got it wrong, in my view, and Obama took
:15:36. > :15:40.the view that he would not go down the austerity route. They had a
:15:40. > :15:43.fiscal deficit about the same size as ours. Stimulus for the
:15:43. > :15:48.automotive industry was a big issue in the election, health care reform
:15:48. > :15:53.was a huge issue. And all of that, if you can equate it to a British
:15:53. > :15:58.situation, should give comfort to Ed Miliband. The Republicans have a
:15:58. > :16:02.demographic problem in the US. They got almost no black votes, they get
:16:02. > :16:07.only about 30% of the Hispanic vote, even less of the Asian vote, they
:16:07. > :16:12.don't get much of the women's vote, particularly the young female vote.
:16:12. > :16:17.Mr Cameron has his own problem. He does not give the Scots vote, the
:16:17. > :16:23.Welsh vote, the black vote, the Asian vote. -- he does not get them.
:16:23. > :16:27.He has his own demographic problems. Of course he does. Putting that
:16:27. > :16:32.altogether, he got 37% of the vote last time, not enough for a
:16:32. > :16:36.majority. And there is no instance of her Government end of his
:16:36. > :16:41.increasing its percentage of the vote. So, whereas a bomber was in a
:16:41. > :16:49.position where he could lose a bit, Cameron is not in a position. --
:16:49. > :16:58.whereas Obama was in that position. What exactly will Mr Obama do with
:16:58. > :17:02.a second term? You really do wonder. I will tell you one thing he is
:17:02. > :17:12.going to do, and that is immigration reform. It is one area
:17:12. > :17:17.where there are elements inside the Republican Party, even the new
:17:17. > :17:22.fairly hard tea-party senator in Texas, who may have a -- an
:17:22. > :17:25.interest in some version of the dream Act. Weirdly, George Bush,
:17:25. > :17:29.actually, with his much better connections to the Hispanic
:17:29. > :17:32.community, was in favour of some sort of solution which would
:17:33. > :17:40.ultimately make not just the children but illegal immigrants the
:17:40. > :17:44.eagle after a while. He could do that. We will see if he does. Here
:17:44. > :17:51.is the thing. In modern times, nearly every second term goes
:17:51. > :17:55.belly-up. Regan, Nixon, Clinton, almost impeached, George Bush,
:17:55. > :18:05.Katrina, disaster. What is to stop the same thing happening with Mr
:18:05. > :18:11.
:18:11. > :18:15.Obama. He could be assassinated. Thank you for bringing that up!
:18:15. > :18:21.Obama will not be impeached for the reason that Clinton was. He does
:18:21. > :18:25.not have that weakness. But he will see having won the electoral and
:18:26. > :18:32.popular votes as huge mandates and will be energised by that. He did
:18:32. > :18:35.not win the popular vote by much. He won it by enough. And with a
:18:35. > :18:38.President who has had 8% unemployment throughout the first
:18:38. > :18:43.term, that is amazing. He said in his victory speech that he will
:18:43. > :18:47.talk about immigration and climate change. He never talked about
:18:47. > :18:51.climate change once during the campaign. And now he does not have
:18:51. > :19:00.to worry about re-election so he can push forward on the issues.
:19:00. > :19:06.he going to be a great President, or not? Yes. Absolutely not. Yes,
:19:06. > :19:12.absolutely. I do think he will have to buck the trend in the second
:19:12. > :19:17.term. He has a chance, actually, to summon his energies and to tell
:19:17. > :19:20.America where it is in its history. For someone who is half historian,
:19:20. > :19:27.half President, he has been peculiarly in articulate and
:19:27. > :19:31.reticent about that. Did you watch his speech? It was fantastic.
:19:31. > :19:35.never spoke like that during the campaign. We have run out of time.
:19:35. > :19:38.Thank you for being with us. Now, as you've no doubt heard today,
:19:38. > :19:41.health and safety rules now prevent the BBC from looking for
:19:41. > :19:46.intelligent life across the known universe, which is why we're forced
:19:46. > :19:49.to keep booking Michael and Alan. So in order to double the IQ in the
:19:50. > :19:53.studio, we've had to search further afield, all the way up the M6 to
:19:53. > :19:55.Manchester. And fresh from her This Week mini-cab trip from hell,
:19:55. > :20:00.waiting in the wings, actress and presenter Denise Welch talking
:20:00. > :20:03.about something we know nothing about. Popularity. And to prove the
:20:03. > :20:07.point, you can follow us on the Twitter, the Fleecebook and the
:20:07. > :20:11.Interweb. Now, forget the American elections,
:20:11. > :20:16.we're not really interested in the leadership of the free world. That
:20:16. > :20:19.was all for your benefit, dear viewers. There's really only one
:20:19. > :20:22.story in Westminster Town, the decision by self-styled conduit for
:20:22. > :20:25.God, Nadine Dorries, to swap the backbenches for the Australian
:20:25. > :20:34.back-of-beyond and wave goodbye to her friends, family, and quite
:20:34. > :20:38.possibly her career. As you know, we're always up for some camp
:20:38. > :20:48.action, so we sent Sarah Smith, of Channel 4 News, into the jungle for
:20:48. > :21:07.
:21:07. > :21:11.Welcome to the jungle. People often talk about the Westminster
:21:11. > :21:16.political jungle, but they don't usually mean it quite so literally.
:21:16. > :21:19.Until this week, when one MP better known for attacking her party
:21:19. > :21:24.leader decided having a go at posh boys wasn't getting her quite
:21:24. > :21:28.enough attention, so she's taking on the creepy-crawlies in the
:21:28. > :21:33.Australian outback instead. When I heard that the honourable member
:21:33. > :21:38.for Mid Bedfordshire had been sent to a jungle to eat insects, I
:21:38. > :21:43.thought, despite the appearance of civility from our new Chief Whip,
:21:43. > :21:47.this indicated a new disciplinarian approach. Nadine Dorries is the
:21:47. > :21:51.first sitting MP to be taken a bush tucker trial when she should be at
:21:51. > :21:54.Prime Minister's Questions. So the Tory party have withdrawn the whip,
:21:54. > :21:59.her constituents say they are disgusted, and that is before they
:21:59. > :22:07.have seen her eating kangaroo testicles. It is a case of, I am a
:22:07. > :22:11.politician, watch me make a prat of myself.
:22:11. > :22:16.Also jetting off this week, not to the jungle but to the desert, David
:22:16. > :22:19.Cameron, taking on the role of sales man In Chief. I'm the Prime
:22:19. > :22:24.Minister, get me some arms contracts, he could be heard to say,
:22:24. > :22:28.as he toured the Middle East. make no apologies for the fact that
:22:28. > :22:33.I am here, talking to our friends in the Emirates, our friends in
:22:33. > :22:36.Saudi Arabia about defence Partnerships, because their
:22:36. > :22:41.security is important for our security and this is vital for
:22:41. > :22:44.British jobs. He looked like he was getting a prize for that. The Prime
:22:44. > :22:48.Minister did not make it home in time to answer questions about his
:22:48. > :22:54.trip. He left that tricky stuff to a combative and remarkably self
:22:54. > :22:59.assured Nick Clegg. Is the Deputy Prime Minister pleased that the
:22:59. > :23:03.Prime Minister is busy selling arms to Saudi Arabia, a country where
:23:03. > :23:06.human rights is non-existent? have the strictest controls of
:23:06. > :23:13.almost any developed economy in the world governing the conditions in
:23:13. > :23:16.which we can sell arms to other countries. If only we could have
:23:16. > :23:21.heard David Cameron's thoughts in the diary room.
:23:21. > :23:25.Well, that was tricky. Reassuring the Saudis it is still business-as-
:23:25. > :23:29.usual, despite the Arab Spring, whilst trying to tell voters we
:23:29. > :23:35.really care about human rights. Thank goodness everybody is paying
:23:35. > :23:38.more attention to that annoying Nadine Dorries woman in the jungle.
:23:38. > :23:42.Allegations this week that top politicians were involved in
:23:42. > :23:45.paedophile rings meant that the Government had to act, announcing
:23:45. > :23:51.two new inquiries into child abuse in North Wales. But that did not
:23:51. > :23:56.stop all questions. A momentary, cursory glance at the internet. It
:23:56. > :24:01.took about three minutes last night to continually find a list of the
:24:01. > :24:05.same names. I have those names there. Those are the names on a
:24:05. > :24:10.piece of paper. You know the names on the piece of paper. Will you be
:24:10. > :24:14.speaking to those people? I think, Philip, this is really important.
:24:14. > :24:18.There is a danger, if we are not careful, that this could turn into
:24:18. > :24:22.a witch hunt, particularly against people who are gay. And I am
:24:22. > :24:26.worried about the sort of thing you are doing right now, giving me a
:24:26. > :24:30.list of names you have taken off the internet. The Home Secretary
:24:30. > :24:34.promised this time victims would be listened to. If you have suffered
:24:34. > :24:38.and you go to the police about what you have been through, those of us
:24:38. > :24:44.in positions of authority and responsibility will not shirk our
:24:44. > :24:49.duty to support you. What actually matters is the thousands and
:24:49. > :24:54.thousands of children whose lives have been ground into nothing, who
:24:54. > :24:57.prefer to kill themselves than carry on. Thus the right honourable
:24:57. > :25:02.Ladies sincerely want to start making amends, or can she live with
:25:02. > :25:06.being what she has just announced, the next stage of a cover-up?
:25:06. > :25:11.are now a total of 10 inquiries stemming from the original Jimmy
:25:11. > :25:15.Savile allegations. One of them is an inquiry into an original inquiry.
:25:15. > :25:25.And there are calls for an overarching super inquiry. Is it
:25:25. > :25:27.
:25:27. > :25:31.possible we have been bitten a bit too hard by the inquiry bug? The
:25:31. > :25:35.things they make you do on television! While Nadine Dorries is
:25:35. > :25:39.probably not looking forward to her first Bush Tucker trial, David
:25:39. > :25:43.Cameron and Nick Clegg are dreading the Leveson Inquiry report. Because
:25:43. > :25:48.whilst Cameron may want to go with whatever he recommends, the Lib
:25:48. > :25:57.Dems will find any curbs on press freedom very hard to swallow. Do I
:25:57. > :26:01.really have to eat these? Yes. need a strong, free press and we
:26:01. > :26:06.also need a proper system to protect people from being, as the
:26:06. > :26:11.Prime Minister said, thrown to the wolves. We must do everything to
:26:11. > :26:15.ensure we maintain a free, raucous, independent press. It is what makes
:26:15. > :26:19.our democracy and the country what it is. But also make sure the
:26:19. > :26:23.vulnerable are protected from abuse by the powerful. Hanging around in
:26:23. > :26:28.the jungle is not a holiday, you know, it is a competition, all
:26:28. > :26:36.about winning votes. It is not that different from real life democracy.
:26:36. > :26:40.So forget Cameron and Clegg, Romney and Obama, and remember, both for
:26:40. > :26:50.Nadine Dorries or Sarah Smith. Politics has always been a
:26:50. > :26:50.
:26:50. > :26:55.popularity contest, really. You can only dial for Sarah Smith. Really,
:26:55. > :27:01.she was in Australia, we pushed the Budget out there. They could not
:27:01. > :27:05.afford to send me to America. I am not bitter! Michael, did Mr Cameron
:27:05. > :27:10.sneak off to the Gulf this week knowing that all eyes would be on
:27:10. > :27:15.the United States? Yes, I think it was a good time to go there. This
:27:15. > :27:19.is a very difficult balancing act. When I wonder whether I would still
:27:19. > :27:22.like to be in office, this is the sort of nightmare that you remember.
:27:22. > :27:27.There are thousands of British jobs dependent on selling arms into the
:27:27. > :27:31.Gulf. Of course, we believe that if we work closely with these
:27:31. > :27:35.countries we can avoid them being taken over by Al-Qaeda-like
:27:35. > :27:40.interests. But these countries do have a lamentable history is on
:27:40. > :27:45.Human Rights. And, by the way, in the case of Saudi Arabia, their
:27:45. > :27:51.position on terror is rather more ambiguous than we would like, too.
:27:51. > :27:54.Yes, remembering where most of the 9/11 terrorists came from. But
:27:54. > :27:57.didn't Mr Cameron make it worse, as if he was sneaking under cover of
:27:57. > :28:02.darkness to sell arms to these regimes, by not taking the
:28:02. > :28:06.journalists with him, saying the political lobby could not come?
:28:06. > :28:09.a general matter, he needs to get out and give some of these general
:28:09. > :28:13.press conferences. He is very good on his feet and as a good
:28:13. > :28:16.storyteller about most things, so I think he must get back quickly to
:28:16. > :28:21.regular press conferences and take on the best lobby journalists in
:28:21. > :28:26.the country. Why not? Is it possible to carry on with business
:28:26. > :28:30.as usual? I remember arms deals with Saudi Arabia going back to the
:28:30. > :28:35.Thatcher years and I am sure we had done before then. Can you carry on
:28:35. > :28:38.with business as usual after the Arab Spring? I think you can. The
:28:38. > :28:44.reason he was out there was because the United Arab Emirates have a
:28:44. > :28:47.fleet of Mirage jets coming to the end of their useful life and they
:28:47. > :28:51.want to by typhoons. There is a timing issue, because they are
:28:51. > :28:56.about to make that decision. As long as you are signed up to the EU
:28:56. > :29:00.code on this, we pushed hard for a UN arms treaty when we were in
:29:00. > :29:04.government and his Government tried hard in July as well. Provided you
:29:04. > :29:11.are doing that as well, I think if it is a timing issue, this would
:29:11. > :29:15.have been planned a long time ago. I think it was focused on that sale.
:29:15. > :29:20.You have been a cheerleader, if I may put it like that, of the Nick
:29:20. > :29:25.Clegg fan club. By common consent, he did pretty well at PMQs this
:29:25. > :29:33.week. He had no notes and he was in robust form and even managed to
:29:33. > :29:42.unite the Tory backbenchers. Mr Taken such flak for two-and-a-half
:29:42. > :29:46.years, Nick Clegg. He really has had his reputation trashed. Yet he
:29:46. > :29:52.was composed, self-confident, well on top of the issues. For instance
:29:52. > :29:58.that issue of arms we've just been talking about. His answer on that
:29:58. > :30:04.was very self-confident, very well expressed. I'm pleased he had a
:30:04. > :30:12.good day. I thought he did pretty well last time. He did pretty well
:30:12. > :30:19.in those debates, when he became the most popular leader since
:30:19. > :30:25.Winston Churchill. For a minute. But that's better than nothing. The
:30:25. > :30:29.issue of Leveson is an interesting one. There are so many issues -
:30:29. > :30:34.Trident, windmills, House of Lords - that divide the coalition.
:30:34. > :30:40.Leveson could do it as well. It is going to be a problem for the Tory
:30:40. > :30:44.side of the coalition if Leveson, as is likely, comes out for some
:30:44. > :30:48.type of statutory control of the press. I think the Government would
:30:48. > :30:56.want to think about that very carefully indeed. I think the great
:30:56. > :31:00.step forward occurred, the day the Guardian exposed what the news of
:31:00. > :31:03.the world was up to. If we have a situation in which the dog will not
:31:03. > :31:07.eat the dog, in which what temperature press gets up to will
:31:07. > :31:11.not be investigated by other members of the press, we do not
:31:11. > :31:15.live in a free society. I don't think statutory regulation will
:31:15. > :31:21.make much difference. I very much hope that we are not creeping back
:31:21. > :31:26.from the position that we were in, where the bad practises of the
:31:26. > :31:30.press were not exposed by other parts of the media. Is Labour right
:31:30. > :31:34.to commit itself to whatever Leveson comes up with, even though
:31:34. > :31:40.it doesn't know what Leveson will come up with? The worry is that
:31:40. > :31:47.there's a bit of a campaign going on behind the scenes to lake the
:31:47. > :31:51.wicket to reject Leveson. Strike bit of. When I was in front of
:31:51. > :31:55.Leveson, even me, a small tiddler in all this, he was very keen to
:31:55. > :31:59.ask the people there what they thought about. This you got the
:31:59. > :32:04.impression he is going to go for more than just a bit of
:32:04. > :32:08.strengthening of the current code. I think there is be elective
:32:08. > :32:13.regulation in there somewhere: But no set of politicians would be
:32:13. > :32:18.sensible to subcontract a matter like this to a judge. The track
:32:18. > :32:22.record of what judges come up with would not inspire me with a lot of
:32:22. > :32:30.confidence. We understand it is coming at the end of November,
:32:30. > :32:34.before the Autumn Statement. TV presenter for ITV, the Prime
:32:34. > :32:37.Minister probably thought he was going to get an easy time. The
:32:37. > :32:40.presenter prints something off the internet, with no idea whether it
:32:40. > :32:45.is true, hands it to the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister says
:32:45. > :32:48.there's a danger of a witch-hunt. Was he right? I seem to be doing a
:32:48. > :32:53.lot of defending of the Prime Minister today, but I think he is
:32:53. > :32:57.right. I experienced this in my constituency, there was a witch-
:32:57. > :33:02.hunt of a man openly gay, who happened to be the leader of the
:33:02. > :33:05.council. It ended up in court with every charge thrown out by the
:33:05. > :33:09.judge. You can see what a witch- hunt can do. Particularly when
:33:09. > :33:14.there is an unreliable witness involved in this. And that was a
:33:14. > :33:20.clear case of people linking homosexuality with paedophilia. So
:33:20. > :33:23.I think the Prime Minister is right to be very cautious on this. Do you
:33:23. > :33:28.think there's a danger of a witch- hunt. There is certainly a trial by
:33:28. > :33:32.Twitter at the moment. Absolutely. What's going on is very serious and
:33:32. > :33:38.disgraceful. I thought the Prime Minister performed excellently. I
:33:38. > :33:42.thought to be confronted by gossip off the internet on a television
:33:42. > :33:46.programme was a disgraceful level of bad journalism. On the network
:33:46. > :33:53.that had done the proper investigation into Jimmy Savile
:33:53. > :33:58.that the BBC hadn't broadcast. And now at a stroke it has hit its
:33:58. > :34:03.credibility. They should be completely ashameded of themselves.
:34:03. > :34:09.I understand Philip Schofield is ashamed that the list appeared on
:34:09. > :34:14.the camera. That is only because he is flightened of liable. And so he
:34:14. > :34:20.jolly well should be. He should be apologising about such a miserable
:34:20. > :34:27.level of journalism. There's so many calls for inquiries and
:34:27. > :34:33.inquiries under way. Barely a day goes by without a hint of a scandal
:34:33. > :34:39.and another inquiry getting set up. Somebody said politicians ask for
:34:39. > :34:43.inquiries like children ask for sweets. There was an interesting
:34:43. > :34:46.intervention by Tim Loughton today, who said there should be an
:34:46. > :34:50.overarching inquiry. I suppose the argument for that is rather than
:34:50. > :34:53.all those different inquiries, if you believed there was a paedophile
:34:53. > :34:58.ring and there there could be connections with Savile and the
:34:58. > :35:02.rest of it, get it out of the way with one inquiry. I think the
:35:02. > :35:07.issues probably are different. The Waterhouse inquiry does seem to
:35:08. > :35:13.have ended very unsatisfactorily. Clearly a lot of names were
:35:13. > :35:18.supplied and no prosecutions folded. It was alleged by some people that
:35:18. > :35:22.things they wanted to talk about outside the boys' home were not
:35:22. > :35:25.investigated. So prima facie, the Prime Minister was right there as
:35:25. > :35:29.well. He's got a be as open about the Conservative Party as he's
:35:29. > :35:35.urged the BBC to be as open about itself. We are going to move on.
:35:35. > :35:41.For all of you who tweeted are we going to name the names? The answer
:35:41. > :35:43.is no. We don't deal with rumours You have evidence you think can be
:35:43. > :35:47.substantiated, take it to the police.
:35:47. > :35:50.Now, it may come as a surprise, but we weren't always part of the in
:35:50. > :35:53.crowd here on This Week. But when it comes to politics, just how
:35:53. > :35:56.important is it to be popular? Nadine Dorries is so concerned
:35:56. > :36:01.about it she'll be eating kangaroo testicles just to get on the good
:36:01. > :36:08.side of those "16 million" television viewers. Don't worry,
:36:08. > :36:11.we'd do far, far worse for 16 million viewers. 6 million would be
:36:11. > :36:20.nice. So this week we're bowing to public opinion and putting
:36:20. > :36:25.popularity in the spotlight. President Obama has shown that even
:36:25. > :36:29.if your approval ratings aren't as high as they once were, if you are
:36:29. > :36:33.more popular than the other guy you stand a chants of winning.
:36:33. > :36:38.doesn't matter if you are black or white or Hispanic or Asian or
:36:38. > :36:43.native American or young or old or rich or poor, able, disabled, gay
:36:43. > :36:48.or straight. You can make it here in America if you are willing to
:36:48. > :36:54.try. Chinese Communists are meeting behind Chinese walls, for their own
:36:54. > :37:01.once in a decade popularity contest. Make the X factor look like a
:37:01. > :37:06.paradigm of Athenian democracy. Outspoken MP Nadine Dorries risksed
:37:06. > :37:09.her popularity in the party by entering the I'm A Celebrity, Get
:37:09. > :37:13.Me Out Of Here! Jungle, she is bringing politics to the people who
:37:13. > :37:17.really matter, the voting public. We had no knowledge until this
:37:17. > :37:23.morning that our MP was anywhere but Westminster. And we all know
:37:23. > :37:30.how popular the old sky tie is with call me day. If you are surprised
:37:30. > :37:34.Justin Welby is hotly tipped to be the next Archbishop of Canterbury.
:37:34. > :37:44.Does success depend on popularity in politics and in life. Please,
:37:44. > :37:45.
:37:45. > :37:50.pick me, pick me, pick me! They didn't pick me but they wicked
:37:50. > :37:54.Denise Welchment welcome. Thank you Andrew. Now, you put your
:37:54. > :37:58.popularity to the test on Celebrity Big Brother and you came out the
:37:58. > :38:01.winner. But at the time but think this is a brave thing or a foolish
:38:01. > :38:07.thing to do? Well, it was a necessary thing, because I had
:38:07. > :38:11.rather a big tax bill to pay, I had been rather silly. They didn't want
:38:11. > :38:17.me to say that but that was the truth. I think you've either got a
:38:17. > :38:24.massive ego that you want massaged even more. So many people with low
:38:24. > :38:28.self-esteem wants to go in there. That's why we come on here. And to
:38:28. > :38:33.be honest, I'm 54 now, there was an element of a box to tick in my case.
:38:33. > :38:37.I had been asked to do these shows. I had tried the ice skating one.
:38:37. > :38:43.But I'm astonished, as are many people, that Nadine Dorries's
:38:43. > :38:49.reasons for going into there. to set the scene, is it a mistake
:38:49. > :38:53.to think when you go on to a show like that that you have any control
:38:53. > :38:58.whatsoever over what happens? it's a mistake. It is absolutely a
:38:58. > :39:03.mistake. I don't think anybody, I thought I was quite prepared for it.
:39:03. > :39:09.To be hefrl honest Andrew, livering a chaotic 90 miles per hour life,
:39:09. > :39:14.like a lot of us do, part of me was thinking, I might get a bit of a
:39:14. > :39:19.rest. It must have been nerve- racking It is nerve-racking. All
:39:19. > :39:26.the time I was thinking, what am I do? And my family, my husband at
:39:26. > :39:31.the time, Tim, and my children, didn't want me go to go in there.
:39:31. > :39:34.I've had my issues with mental health and I shouldn't have gone in.
:39:34. > :39:38.What do you make of Nadine Dorries's claim she wants to do it
:39:38. > :39:43.because the show is popular, she wants to get a political message
:39:43. > :39:48.across. The moment she makes a political message, ITV will cut
:39:48. > :39:54.that out. If she starts spouting the Tory manifesto, you know what I
:39:54. > :39:59.mean? It's so a risk for her? What surprises my and the rest of
:39:59. > :40:03.the people I've spoken to is that nobody seemed to know what she was
:40:03. > :40:07.doing. We would all sometimes like to take off and fly to Australia. I
:40:07. > :40:10.think from a popularity point of view it's the popularity in this
:40:10. > :40:16.country let alone Australia she's going to have to deal with when she
:40:16. > :40:21.comes back. There is an elements of the pompous Tory politician, those
:40:21. > :40:28.of us who aren't politicians, we sometimes feel. She may show a
:40:28. > :40:33.sense of fun. But at the same time I think that what I do think she is
:40:33. > :40:37.going in there for her own reasons, to become more famous, to become
:40:37. > :40:41.more popular. I think if she comes out a success, if she's allowed to
:40:41. > :40:45.continue her parliamentary career, lit soon be over, because she will
:40:45. > :40:48.want the Ann Widdecombe effect. there any credibility that you go
:40:48. > :40:52.on to I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here! To get your political
:40:52. > :40:55.message across to a wider public? Not exactly that, but she will be
:40:55. > :40:58.very well known to all of her constituents and to millions of
:40:58. > :41:04.other people at the end of this process. If she had spent a month
:41:04. > :41:07.in Britain tweeting and sending out pamphlets she would not have
:41:07. > :41:12.communicate with her constituents in the same way. The high risk is
:41:12. > :41:17.that her maternal ti is going to be unveiled on this programme. It may
:41:17. > :41:23.be that people like her personality very much and it does her good. It
:41:23. > :41:29.may be that they dislike her and she is ruined by it. It will put
:41:29. > :41:33.her speaking fees up. It will almost certainly do that. In terms
:41:33. > :41:37.of her parliamentary career it may well be make or break. I think the
:41:37. > :41:44.Conservative Party were unwise to intervene on this. It would leave
:41:44. > :41:48.it as a matter between the MP and the constituency. I think there's a
:41:48. > :41:53.certain amount of hypocrisy here. I have known serving barristers who
:41:53. > :41:58.are MPs but continue to practice and who leave Parliament for long
:41:58. > :42:03.periods to go and... It happened on our side of the House. What about
:42:03. > :42:07.people who are Ministers? How long do they spend in their
:42:07. > :42:13.constituencies? If you withdraw the whip for Nadine Dorries, you would
:42:13. > :42:17.have to do the same for Gordon Brown. What I did, apparently, in
:42:17. > :42:22.defence of Nadine, I don't know what the equivalent parliamentary
:42:22. > :42:26.term is for attendance but her attendance is 750% and Gordon
:42:26. > :42:30.Brown's is 15%. There is no question she is there a lot. Isn't
:42:30. > :42:34.the truth if she wants to get a political message across to a
:42:34. > :42:40.public beyond the political anoraks like us, she should just appear on
:42:40. > :42:45.Loose Women. Absolutely, and she is more than welcome to. I hope she
:42:46. > :42:50.does. You have to like women a lot, and I'm not sure about Nadine.
:42:50. > :42:54.bet you if you invite her when she comes back, she will come on.
:42:54. > :42:59.Select Committee be on like a shot, I'm sure. I'm excited like
:42:59. > :43:05.everybody to see how she does. you going to watch it? Definitely,
:43:05. > :43:08.and to see how my friend Linda Robson fares with campfire chats
:43:08. > :43:11.with Nadine. Thank you for being with us.
:43:11. > :43:14.That's your lot for tonight folks, but not for us, because it's "loose
:43:14. > :43:18.women" night at Annabel's. So no change there then, and Denise has
:43:18. > :43:22.promised to take Michael and Alan by the hand and lead them on to the
:43:22. > :43:24.dance floor and into temptation. But we leave you tonight with some
:43:24. > :43:27.quite delirious scenes from Beijing, where Chinese Communists are