:00:32. > :00:35.# You woke up this morning, got Tonight on This Week, as one great
:00:35. > :00:37.TV mobster, Tony Soprano, sadly leaves the stage, we turn our
:00:37. > :00:40.attention to the political underworld in Westminster. Organised
:00:40. > :00:43.crime in the City of London. A new report says naughty bankers should
:00:43. > :00:53.do a stretch in the slammer. Wise guy financial journalist Max Keiser
:00:53. > :00:58.breaks the code of omerta. What do Tony Soprano and the Godfather have
:00:58. > :01:00.in common with the CEOs of top banks? They should all be in jail
:01:00. > :01:04.because they are crooks. The world's big bosses had a sit
:01:04. > :01:07.down at the G8, but former KGB heavy Don Putin didn't always have a smile
:01:07. > :01:17.on his face. ITV's favourite moll, Laura Kuenssberg, has been pinched
:01:17. > :01:18.
:01:18. > :01:23.by This Week. So, the world's leaders might have rolled up their
:01:23. > :01:26.sleeves as they rolled up to the G8, but did address down summit really
:01:26. > :01:28.achieve very much at all? And after a police caution for
:01:29. > :01:32.Charles Saatchi, have pictures of Nigella Lawson being manhandled
:01:32. > :01:35.shone a light on the darkness of domestic abuse? Broadcaster Trisha
:01:35. > :01:45.Goddard and Sky Sports presenter Charlie Webster speak up for the
:01:45. > :01:47.
:01:47. > :01:51.victims. Those pictures of Nigella have certainly opened up the debate
:01:51. > :01:55.about domestic violence. Domestic abuse can happen to anybody, no
:01:55. > :02:05.matter what background, and the pictures showed they can happen to
:02:05. > :02:06.
:02:06. > :02:15.women who are outwardly confident and independent. This week we are in
:02:15. > :02:18.the waste management is less. Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week,
:02:18. > :02:22.the only genuine excuse for not paying the licence fee, and the best
:02:22. > :02:25.reason for going to bed early on a Thursday. Now, like us, you probably
:02:25. > :02:29.think most politicians are as dull as ditchwater, as grey as Michael's
:02:29. > :02:31.underwear drawer. But tonight we bring news of a brighter, more
:02:31. > :02:33.colourful world, following the sensational interview given by a
:02:33. > :02:43.Labour councillor called Simon Parkes who revealed that politics
:02:43. > :02:47.isn't just for those who've seen the inside of Eton College. Oh, no. It's
:02:47. > :02:51.also for those who've seen the inside of an alien spaceship! Oh
:02:51. > :02:57.yes! According to Simon, his "real mother" is a nine feet tall green
:02:57. > :03:01.alien with eight stick-like fingers. Yes, Simon, I can see the
:03:01. > :03:07.resemblance. He currently enjoys close sexual encounters of the third
:03:07. > :03:09.kind, at least four times a year!! So, no stamina, then, these aliens.
:03:09. > :03:18.And he has even fathered an extra-terrestrial love-child as a
:03:18. > :03:22.result, called Zarka. Well, why should Boris have all the fun when
:03:22. > :03:25.it comes to love children? Now, I know what you're thinking - it
:03:25. > :03:27.doesn't get any more peculiar than a politician invited aboard a
:03:27. > :03:33.spaceship and fathering an extra-terrestrial love child called
:03:33. > :03:39.Zarka. But you'd be wrong. Because Maria Miller sits in the Cabinet, as
:03:39. > :03:42.Culture Secretary. I know, I know. Not just peculiar. Bizarre. Speaking
:03:42. > :03:44.of space cadettes who've served in government, I'm joined on the sofa
:03:44. > :03:50.tonight by two flamboyant individuals who I have to share a
:03:50. > :03:54.small cell with. Think of them as the Dolce and Gabbana of late-night
:03:54. > :03:57.political chat, even if they are more Man At C&A and Burtons. I
:03:57. > :04:07.speak, of course, of #manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson, and
:04:07. > :04:12.
:04:12. > :04:16.#sadmanonatrain Michael "Choo Choo" Portillo. Your moment of the week?
:04:16. > :04:20.The Care Quality Commission, the most useless public sector
:04:20. > :04:25.organisation ever invented, not only failed to look after patients, but
:04:25. > :04:29.also, of course, was apparently involved in covering up its own
:04:29. > :04:33.failure, because anything that failed among the things it was meant
:04:33. > :04:38.to be supervising was a failure of itself. It has then got into the
:04:38. > :04:41.business of not naming the people involved in the cover-up. But I
:04:41. > :04:44.wanted to use this as an illustration. I think something has
:04:44. > :04:48.happened in politics in the last few weeks which is basically that the
:04:48. > :04:51.Labour view of the world has fallen apart, because the National Health
:04:51. > :04:56.Service is no longer seen as a sacred cow full of Florence
:04:56. > :05:01.Nightingales, the welfare state is now very much on the defensive,
:05:01. > :05:06.criticised by the public, the way that people see schooling is
:05:06. > :05:11.changing as well, and Labour has come off its previous position on
:05:11. > :05:15.the austerity programme. I think we mark a significant moment in the
:05:15. > :05:23.political process, that many of the things where Labour thought it was
:05:23. > :05:29.on strong ground, it is now in absolute retreat. He hopes. Try not
:05:29. > :05:32.to respond and just give me your moment of the week. Can I talk about
:05:32. > :05:39.trains? In nine hours, I will be catching the East Coast mainline
:05:39. > :05:42.train up to Hull. There was a debate in Parliament today. The East Coast
:05:42. > :05:46.is the only publicly owned rail network. Its quality of service is
:05:46. > :05:52.really good. I have been using it for 16 years and it has never been
:05:52. > :05:57.better. It has handed back �640 million to the taxpayer. The debate
:05:57. > :06:04.today from MPs from London to Aberdeen who use the East Coast was
:06:04. > :06:07.dogmatic about this. It is delivering the goods, quality of
:06:07. > :06:14.service is good, reliability is good. There is no earthly reason why
:06:14. > :06:18.it should be franchised out. If it ain't, don't fix it. Privatise.
:06:18. > :06:21.What a week to be a banker. Yes, I said banker, b-b-b banker. This
:06:21. > :06:24.week, a long-awaited door stopper of a report on banking standards, which
:06:24. > :06:34.must be the biggest oxymoron of our times, has proposed porridge for
:06:34. > :06:36.bankers that engage in reckless misconduct. But if they can create a
:06:36. > :06:39.financial crash by investing in assets they don't understand, money
:06:39. > :06:42.launder for the Mexican drug cartel, help the Mullahs break Iranian
:06:42. > :06:44.sanctions, fiddle the world's most important interest rate and rip off
:06:44. > :06:47.their customers with dodgy mis-selling of products they don't
:06:47. > :06:52.need, all without anybody going to jail, then what's a bit of reckless
:06:52. > :06:54.misconduct when you're counting your bonus? In search of an answer, we
:06:54. > :07:04.turned to American broadcaster and recovering banker, Max Keiser. This
:07:04. > :07:15.
:07:15. > :07:19.is his Take Of The Week. Welcome to London, the financial
:07:19. > :07:24.capital of the world, home of legendary financial minds like
:07:24. > :07:34.Andrew Neil and the honourable British banker. Neither of those
:07:34. > :07:35.
:07:35. > :07:39.statements is true. I worked on Wall Street in the 1980s when greed was
:07:39. > :07:45.good. The same thing here in the city of London, where greed was
:07:45. > :07:49.jolly good. Sure, we cut corners, but since the financial crisis,
:07:49. > :07:54.standards in the banking industry have collapsed. It is almost as if
:07:54. > :07:59.crime is good. This week, a report on banking standards, commissioned
:07:59. > :08:06.by the UK government, calls for a new criminal offence of reckless
:08:06. > :08:15.misconduct, including a recommendation for jail sentences.
:08:15. > :08:21.Oh, and a deferment of bonuses. That must really hurt!
:08:21. > :08:29.# A British bank is run with precision, a British home requires
:08:29. > :08:38.nothing less. Tradition and rules, without them, disorder, chaos, moral
:08:38. > :08:44.disintegration, a ghastly mess. # Reckless misconduct and going to
:08:44. > :08:48.jail. It sounds bad. Is it just typical British understatement?
:08:48. > :08:52.Included in reckless misconduct is HSBC's laundering of billions of
:08:52. > :08:56.pounds worth of Mexican drug cartel money. If you ask me how many
:08:56. > :09:00.bankers are going to go to jail, I would posit that it will be about
:09:00. > :09:10.the same number of Mexican drug cartel money launders that go to
:09:10. > :09:15.jail. Very few. How do they get away with it? Well, according to the
:09:15. > :09:20.report, they used the phrase, the murder on the Orient express
:09:20. > :09:27.defence, which is a very nice way to say that they are operating as a
:09:27. > :09:31.criminal syndicate, a crime family. Nobody in the organisation knows
:09:31. > :09:36.what the whole organisation is up to, therefore none of them are
:09:36. > :09:46.culpable and they all escape prosecution. These people deserve
:09:46. > :09:50.
:09:50. > :09:56.the name many have given them. Gangsters. But will it work? Over
:09:56. > :10:03.the past few decades we have had big and bigger bubbles, big and bigger
:10:03. > :10:08.bursting, and calls for reform. This looks pretty much exactly like that.
:10:08. > :10:18.I have a better idea. It might be time to take the law into our own
:10:18. > :10:25.
:10:25. > :10:28.hands. If you see a banker running When he got out of jail, he came
:10:28. > :10:37.from the blustery Millennium Bridge to our own studio full of bluster
:10:37. > :10:40.here in Westminster. Max Keiser, welcome to this week. A pleasure to
:10:40. > :10:46.be here. I am not sure what you think we should do about the
:10:46. > :10:49.bankers? If they want to act like gangsters, maybe they should get
:10:49. > :10:56.whacked. There should be some deterrent for what they are doing.
:10:56. > :11:03.They want to be this conquering bank staff type, and yet they do not
:11:03. > :11:09.suffer any penalties. Take a page out of Tony Soprano's book. What
:11:09. > :11:13.would he do in this situation? It would not be pretty, would it?
:11:13. > :11:18.not think governments can do that. You have to ask how complicit the
:11:18. > :11:22.government is in some of these activities. They got a lot of tax
:11:22. > :11:25.revenue when the banks were booming. But they cost the UK economy a
:11:26. > :11:29.tremendous amount of tax revenue that would have been realised had
:11:29. > :11:39.there been more honest enterprise allowed. And there would not have
:11:39. > :11:43.been the crash. Is it the system, or rogue individuals? It is systemic.
:11:43. > :11:45.It is the system and it starts at the Bank of England, that has been
:11:45. > :11:50.allowing for artificially low interest rates to fuel the
:11:50. > :11:59.speculation and the bad debt. The Bank of England was also named in
:11:59. > :12:03.the LIBOR scandal, along with Barclays. Are you saying we must now
:12:03. > :12:08.say Mervyn King should be going to jail? He says he is going to spill
:12:08. > :12:12.the beans now that he is out of his role. They all say that. Do you
:12:12. > :12:17.think this report will make a blind bit of difference? I don't think it
:12:17. > :12:22.will. The things that have already happened, it seems to me, raise the
:12:22. > :12:26.question as to what criminality has occurred. I have been amazed that
:12:26. > :12:30.over the last six years there has been no attempt, apparently, to see
:12:30. > :12:33.what criminal activity was involved. It seems extraordinary that the
:12:33. > :12:36.banks could suddenly fall off a cliff, and that it could be the case
:12:36. > :12:40.that everything that had been reported to shareholders and the
:12:40. > :12:44.public up to that point had been correct. How could that possibly be
:12:44. > :12:48.the case? It seems to me that we must have been misled, shareholders
:12:48. > :12:52.must have been misled. There are criminal offences involved in all of
:12:53. > :12:55.that. I have seen no assiduous effort are prosecuting authorities
:12:55. > :13:00.to investigate what happened and what charges could have been
:13:00. > :13:07.brought. I really do think, until we see large numbers of anchors in
:13:07. > :13:11.handcuffs, we are not go into make much of a change in this. There is
:13:11. > :13:16.vacancy talk of this offence of reckless, not clear what it means,
:13:16. > :13:24.and the suggestion that some bankers should wait ten years for their
:13:24. > :13:29.bonuses. At Question Time, Prime Minister's Questions, the two front
:13:29. > :13:34.benches agreed, it seemed like an exercise in banker bark, because it
:13:34. > :13:41.is pop larks rather than something that will change the system. Yes,
:13:41. > :13:51.and this is the third report. The Vickers Report was competed in 2010.
:13:51. > :13:59.He was on it with advance cable and there's a feeling that it is
:13:59. > :14:05.business as usual, we just have to go through hoops first. Tyree
:14:05. > :14:11.doesn't want a report that will sit on a shelf and gathers dust, so they
:14:11. > :14:15.tried through legislation. Another defence bankers use is that the
:14:15. > :14:25.system is too fragile and if you prosecute us now the system will
:14:25. > :14:26.
:14:26. > :14:31.collapse. They say for example during the 20 a 08 crash -- 2008
:14:31. > :14:35.crash there was skulduggery going on and in the US system a deal was done
:14:35. > :14:40.backstage where they said if you don't give us the bail-out the
:14:40. > :14:45.market is going to crash. They used the power of the market almost as a
:14:45. > :14:49.bludgeoning stick. You could say they are almost extorting their
:14:49. > :14:54.rights, as they are getting tremendous benefits every time a
:14:54. > :14:58.chant closes they end up getting all the benefits and we end up picking
:14:58. > :15:06.up the tab. But politicians in this country seem to want to face both
:15:06. > :15:12.ways at once. On the one hand they dine out on bash bashing bankers and
:15:12. > :15:17.on the other hand they big up London as the most important financial
:15:17. > :15:26.sector in the world. Here's the risk. The balance sheet of the Bank
:15:26. > :15:32.of England has gone fro 8�8 trillion... The question is, should
:15:32. > :15:36.you prosecute bankers? I would say, how desperate are you for growth in
:15:36. > :15:41.the UK? They are imping growth by forcing the Government to issue more
:15:41. > :15:44.and more bonds which end up on the balance sheet of the Bank of
:15:44. > :15:52.England. That's interest cost. That's all brought about by these
:15:52. > :15:58.bank steres that refuse to step out of the way and allow competition.
:15:58. > :16:02.They want privileged access. As harsh as this sounds you would allow
:16:02. > :16:06.interest rates to start to creep up. That's about to happen in the United
:16:06. > :16:09.States. And around the world. Not because of policies that were put
:16:09. > :16:15.together by responsible governments but because there is a bond crash.
:16:15. > :16:22.I've talked to you on this show before. That's happening now, with
:16:22. > :16:28.interest rates elsewhere rising. Haven't we reached a sorry pass when
:16:28. > :16:34.only Boris is prepared to speak up for bankers among the political
:16:34. > :16:40.class? There is a dilemma here. I meet a lot of bankers socially and
:16:40. > :16:45.professionally. He mixes with the bad guys. There is no doubt they
:16:45. > :16:50.were highly innovative and clever people and they make a lot of money
:16:50. > :16:54.for their banks and potentially for Britain. Recently they have cost
:16:54. > :16:59.Britain an awful lot of money, an absolute fortune. I think the thing
:16:59. > :17:03.you have to get clear in your mind is that tough regulation, including
:17:03. > :17:08.criminal sanctions, does not drive the banking community away from
:17:08. > :17:12.London. It would provide London with a place where the entire world knew
:17:12. > :17:15.that they were going to be treated fairly, cleanly, professionally and
:17:15. > :17:22.transparently. This traditionally has been the great strength of
:17:22. > :17:27.Britain. It is in many areas. People flock from all over the world to do
:17:27. > :17:32.business under English law - and I say English law - because they know
:17:32. > :17:40.they will be treated fairly and equally. All the scandals come
:17:40. > :17:43.through London, as it has the most lax rectory... All the stuff Lehman
:17:43. > :17:49.was doing was out of London. We must not be afraid of being the most
:17:49. > :17:53.regulated. What he is saying is you are living in a age where London's
:17:53. > :18:01.long gone, London almost compared to New York is the casino of banking
:18:01. > :18:07.now. You can outsource your fraud to London. The bankers in New York know
:18:07. > :18:16.that. There is no limit to rehypothecation of securities.
:18:16. > :18:19.don't often use that phrase on This Week! So don't even explain it.
:18:19. > :18:24.Traditionally and in fields other than banking the fact that English
:18:24. > :18:30.law is fair and transparent has been an amazing invisible export. In
:18:30. > :18:34.other words it is attractive. still is in the banking world.
:18:34. > :18:38.Arrest some bankers. Here is my prediction. You all agree, it won't
:18:38. > :18:44.happen. That's my prediction. Max Keiser, thank you. I've brought
:18:44. > :18:50.these for you Andrew. These are special handcuffs. What were you
:18:50. > :18:55.doing in nigh bedroom? It is great to see Max. He put all his money
:18:55. > :19:00.into gold and the market crashed, so he needs be here to get his money
:19:00. > :19:03.back. Now, it's late - Daft Punk late, and
:19:03. > :19:07.like our robotic French friends, we stay up late to get lucky, which so
:19:07. > :19:09.far has been a totally unrewarding endeavour. But we live in hope, and
:19:09. > :19:12.tonight we have company, because waiting in the wings are broadcaster
:19:12. > :19:18.Trisha Goddard and Sky Sports presenter Charlie Webster, here to
:19:18. > :19:23.talk about domestic violence and what can be done about it. Remember,
:19:23. > :19:33.there is no need for any kind of abuse on the Twitter, floss book or
:19:33. > :19:34.
:19:34. > :19:37.even the good old Interweb. Even if you are a needy old support other --
:19:37. > :19:40.an EDL supporter. Now, a group of the world's most powerful leaders -
:19:40. > :19:44.plus Canada - came together this week on a golf course in Northern
:19:44. > :19:47.Ireland. And against all odds, agreed a decisive and united course
:19:47. > :19:50.of action. Not about tax avoidance - too many shoulds, coulds, and maybes
:19:50. > :19:54.for that. And not about Syria - not with Mr Putin flexing his political
:19:54. > :19:58.pecs. No, the one important thing they all agreed on was that the best
:19:58. > :20:01.way to look like you know what you're doing is not to wear a tie.
:20:01. > :20:04.If only they'd watched This Week, they'd know it doesn't work! Anyway,
:20:04. > :20:14.Laura Kuenssberg didn't get the memo and headed off to the course by
:20:14. > :20:16.
:20:16. > :20:20.herself. This is her round-up of the political week. Look, golf is from
:20:21. > :20:30.where I'm from, so if an Englishman can win the US Open I'm sure I can
:20:31. > :20:47.
:20:47. > :20:54.have a decent crack at it. How hard sooner or later. I did meet Rory
:20:54. > :21:00.McIlroy last year and Rory offered to get my swing sorted. Which was a
:21:00. > :21:07.plight way of saying, Mr President, you need help. Well at least I'm not
:21:07. > :21:12.alone. And neither were Barack Obama and Dave, on a lovely golf course
:21:12. > :21:16.with their world leader chums. They spared us the plus 4s, but what was
:21:16. > :21:20.with that smart casual? Why weren't they wearing ties? Does it really
:21:20. > :21:30.make that much difference what you wear if you are a leader of the
:21:30. > :21:44.
:21:44. > :21:51.properly attired he would have had more luck in talk to Vladimir Putin,
:21:51. > :22:00.who was in jeans. He didn't get far in asking potato to incall off his
:22:00. > :22:05.Syrian friends. We haven't... I'm concerned about elements of the
:22:05. > :22:09.Syrian opposition but don't let's accept that there is only one
:22:10. > :22:14.alternative to Assad and that is extremist terrorism. As far as Syria
:22:14. > :22:19.was concerned, G8 got a little lost. The deal in the end was more a bogey
:22:19. > :22:25.than a birdie, but the Prime Minister did manage to find
:22:25. > :22:32.something on his score card. A sort of deal to do something about those
:22:32. > :22:36.who are cheating tax. We can rewrite the international rules that allow
:22:36. > :22:41.companies to shift their profits away from the UK or any other
:22:41. > :22:44.country where they are doing business. These companies are using
:22:44. > :22:49.the existing tax laws, obviously you have to get international agreement
:22:49. > :22:58.and there is no better place to start than when you've got eight of
:22:58. > :23:05.the largest economies in the world sitting around the table. Of course
:23:05. > :23:10.the risk is, if we abide by those new rules and nobody else does poor
:23:10. > :23:15.old UK PLC could end up stuck in the bunk banker, and poor old dodgy
:23:15. > :23:20.bankers might not be able to take up golf. Instead they might end up
:23:20. > :23:25.stuck in the slammer. Following the parliamentary commission on banking
:23:25. > :23:30.can the Prime Minister confirm he supports its recommendation on
:23:30. > :23:37.bonuses and criminal penalties and he will use the banking bill to
:23:37. > :23:43.implement them? Making sure that bhoonks are in receipt of taxpayer
:23:43. > :23:46.taxpayers' money that you can claw back bad bonus I say yes too.
:23:46. > :23:52.Government is gung-ho about changing the law, even though that idea might
:23:52. > :23:57.never be used. RBS it seems might never actually be sold. The
:23:57. > :24:04.Chancellor still seems quite unsure what to do the banks that left us
:24:05. > :24:09.broke. I will only sell our stake in RBS when we feel the bank is fully
:24:09. > :24:15.able to support our economy and when we get good value for you, the
:24:16. > :24:25.taxpayer. In our judgment, when it comes to RBS, that moment is some
:24:26. > :24:29.
:24:29. > :24:34.way off. It is a long road to the general election, for Ed Miliband or
:24:34. > :24:38.Steven twig it was Labour's education policy. It is just as easy
:24:38. > :24:42.to understand as driving the one of these. Where a school freedom
:24:42. > :24:47.promotes higher standards, we will extend those freedoms to all
:24:47. > :24:52.schools. So if a freedom that is currently afforded to an academy is
:24:52. > :25:02.serving to drive up standards, that freedom should be available to all
:25:02. > :25:10.
:25:10. > :25:15.Look! It was here all along. Of course, the Education Secretary is
:25:15. > :25:19.so relaxed about it all he has apparently taken up golf. Not such a
:25:19. > :25:26.good week for his colleague at health, who is having to deal with
:25:26. > :25:28.the late he's hideous cover-up. events at Morecambe Bay,
:25:28. > :25:32.Mid-Staffordshire and other hospitals should never have been
:25:32. > :25:38.covered up but should not have happened in the first place. We need
:25:38. > :25:44.to transform the approach to patient safety in our NHS. Finishing all too
:25:44. > :25:49.easy for the Tories to blame Labour, after all even though those names
:25:49. > :25:53.are now out there it was them who set up the Care Quality Commission
:25:53. > :26:03.in the first place. See, Alan, Andrew and Michael, not so hard
:26:03. > :26:07.after all. Join me for one tonne 19? -- for one on the 19? That was Laura
:26:07. > :26:12.Kuenssberg breaking all the rules at high great golf club in London.
:26:12. > :26:19.Allarges you are a former Health Secretary. What did you make of
:26:19. > :26:27.these stories about the Care Quality Commission or the no-care,
:26:27. > :26:30.no-quality commission? Horrendous, and horrendous what happened at
:26:31. > :26:36.Morecambe Bay and then the cover-up and the suggestion they had to
:26:36. > :26:41.redact that information because it breached data protection, and the
:26:41. > :26:44.Information Commissioner said no. It is awful. You have to remember, the
:26:44. > :26:49.Care Quality Commission was putting together three different regulators.
:26:49. > :26:52.There was a regulator in adult social care, one in the NHS and one
:26:52. > :26:58.in mental health. There was no regulation. There was no inspection
:26:58. > :27:02.before 2000. No-one knew, there was no complaints system that went
:27:02. > :27:09.outside the hospital. There was no scrutiny and no tarns partner at
:27:09. > :27:14.the. That is not to -- and no transparency. Whatever happened
:27:14. > :27:18.before 2000... This is, this leads to a reassessment, given what
:27:18. > :27:23.happened in Mid-Staffordshire and now what we know happened in
:27:23. > :27:32.Morecambe and the cover-up by people who were meant to be the good guys,
:27:32. > :27:37.doesn't this under, this goes a long way to undermining the national
:27:38. > :27:45.attitude to the NHS. Well, no. This was Michael ace point at the
:27:45. > :27:53.beginning. I don't think it does. I think what it does... Maybe it
:27:53. > :27:58.does? The enemies of the NHS have always suggested there is a better
:27:58. > :28:02.way of dealing with the NHS. There is a better way of ensuring that
:28:02. > :28:07.hospitals are better regulated, that it is more transparent, but it is
:28:07. > :28:14.amazing how little there was in that area before this regulation was
:28:14. > :28:19.introduced. That's why we are saying it is the greatest health service in
:28:19. > :28:24.the world. It is perfectly obvious that if you appoint a public sector
:28:24. > :28:27.regulator, what they are going to do is they are, if anything goes
:28:27. > :28:31.wrong,er in going to have to protect themselves against the accusation
:28:31. > :28:36.that they didn't spot what was going wrong, so they are immediately in a
:28:36. > :28:44.defensive position. When the Mid-Staffordshire thing was revealed
:28:44. > :28:47.two or three years ago, ten hospitals in worse mortality rates
:28:47. > :28:57.and the Care Quality Commission said no need to look into those, we know
:28:57. > :28:59.
:28:59. > :29:06.why that is. People immediately smelt they were in the business of
:29:06. > :29:09.When you have a public-sector regulator, that will happen. They
:29:09. > :29:12.lose all contact with the original mission for which they are
:29:12. > :29:21.established. We saw it with gas, electricity, the telephone companies
:29:21. > :29:28.and everything. They begin to think they are there for themselves.
:29:28. > :29:31.private sector... We see the same with financial regulators in the
:29:31. > :29:38.private sector. We have a problem with good regulation with both
:29:38. > :29:43.sectors. The solution is to give some power to the people who are the
:29:43. > :29:46.patients, customers, clients, which is what you do as soon as in the
:29:46. > :29:50.electricity, telephone and gas companies. You make them customers
:29:50. > :29:55.who are paying for a service and you get a service because the people
:29:55. > :30:00.supplying the service understand that people have power. In health,
:30:00. > :30:06.the patients have no power, no control, no rights and are treated
:30:06. > :30:10.appallingly. That was the case, Michael, but it is not the case now.
:30:10. > :30:15.You could not pursue a complaint outside the local hospital. There
:30:15. > :30:20.was nowhere to go. There is nowhere to go now. Have you not seen these
:30:20. > :30:26.people being bought off with enormous payments to keep quiet?
:30:26. > :30:30.are talking about the quality of the regulation. The only thing that
:30:30. > :30:36.stands between us and the abyss is the free press. These things are
:30:36. > :30:43.coming out by press investigation. Let's move on. It is an interesting
:30:43. > :30:48.argument. Let me come to the G8. Let me come to Syria, because it is the
:30:48. > :30:53.most important foreign policy issue at the time. It is clear to me that
:30:53. > :30:58.there is not going to be a major Western intervention in Syria. Right
:30:58. > :31:01.or wrong, it is not going to happen. And nor is there going to be a
:31:01. > :31:07.diplomatic solution, because if Assad knows there is not going to be
:31:07. > :31:14.won, and Russia knows there is not going to be one, why would you do a
:31:14. > :31:18.diplomatic solution? He is winning. I do not think there should be an
:31:19. > :31:25.intervention in Syria. This is becoming more and more a Civil War,
:31:25. > :31:28.a war between Shia and Sunni. I think Putin is right on this. He has
:31:28. > :31:34.been the one right from the start who has been saying, be realistic
:31:34. > :31:40.about what is happening. He can be realistic because he is supplying
:31:40. > :31:47.the guns on planes. There is no easy answer here, and Cameron has tried
:31:47. > :31:53.really hard. I think, in my view, he is wrong that if somehow if they
:31:53. > :31:57.lifted the arms embargo if they persuaded Putin to say that he would
:31:57. > :32:01.be much more strong in terms of being much more critical, that they
:32:01. > :32:09.would get a peace summit in July-August. That does not seem
:32:09. > :32:13.possible now. Can anybody here, two of you, give me a scintilla of
:32:13. > :32:20.evidence that Assad is prepared to negotiate a peace deal? Of course
:32:20. > :32:23.not. But I agree largely with Alan. I do not understand why the British
:32:23. > :32:27.government has got itself on this hook of wanting to supply arms to
:32:27. > :32:32.the rebels. It is simply too dangerous. We have two little
:32:32. > :32:35.understanding of the situation, and as has been implied, it is
:32:35. > :32:41.escalating into a much broader situation of Sunni versus Shia, and
:32:41. > :32:46.I do not think we have a dog in that fight. You may have a dog in that
:32:46. > :32:52.fight if it becomes a regional conflict. Which dog is it?That, I
:32:52. > :32:56.have no idea. I am not arguing for intervention but I am saying if you
:32:56. > :32:59.are not going to get a diplomatic solution, which seems impossible,
:32:59. > :33:04.the West is not going to intervene, for very good reasons, then you need
:33:04. > :33:08.to face up to the fact that, backed by Russia, with all the modern
:33:08. > :33:17.armaments that Russia has, Assad will win and there will be one hell
:33:17. > :33:24.of a reckoning when that happens. The trouble is, the next step is to
:33:24. > :33:28.intervene. And President Obama has no interest in this. Journalistic
:33:28. > :33:30.colleagues who were there in Northern Ireland said that the
:33:30. > :33:37.indifference of visiting Obama to almost anything we are talking about
:33:37. > :33:44.was palpable. I can believe that. Can you explain Labour's schools
:33:44. > :33:48.policy? Yes. Out there, there is a confusion of academies, frees
:33:48. > :33:52.Gauls, state schools, trust schools. What Stephen Twigg was saying was
:33:52. > :33:56.that it does not matter what they are called, they should all have the
:33:56. > :34:01.freedom that academy schools have, but there should be a collaboration
:34:01. > :34:07.between schools in an area. That is the problem. The Department of
:34:07. > :34:13.education runs all of these academies. It is centralisation.
:34:13. > :34:16.Well done, you did a better job than Stephen Twigg. Another domino has
:34:16. > :34:21.fallen. Over the last four weeks we have seen all of these Labour
:34:21. > :34:26.dominoes go down. I will tell you the domino that has fallen, Michael
:34:26. > :34:30.Gove has not gone for selective education. Selective education is
:34:30. > :34:33.possible under what he is doing. Now, Diane Abbott may have had her
:34:33. > :34:36.faults, and we don't have enough time to go into them all now, but
:34:36. > :34:39.you could never accuse her of treating trophy husband Michael
:34:39. > :34:41.Portillo with anything other than the respect he didn't deserve. But
:34:41. > :34:45.for many people, their relationships aren't anywhere near as pretty. And
:34:45. > :34:55.with a high-profile case of domestic abuse in the news this week, we
:34:55. > :35:01.
:35:01. > :35:07.decided to put domestic violence in domestic violence. Nigella Lawson's
:35:07. > :35:12.cultivated image as the woman who has it all - attractive,
:35:12. > :35:18.successful, confident - has cracked this week, after photographs showed
:35:18. > :35:21.her husband with his hands around her throat. The assault resulted in
:35:21. > :35:27.a caution for Charles Saatchi and put the hidden bruisers of abuse
:35:27. > :35:32.back in the media spotlight, reinforcing our knowledge that anger
:35:32. > :35:39.and aggression are not the preserve of a particular social class. So why
:35:39. > :35:44.does it take such a shocking image to make us sit up and finally take
:35:44. > :35:47.notice. One in four women are affected cheering their life. Are
:35:47. > :35:52.the media and politicians doing enough to highlight the issue? Like
:35:52. > :35:57.Tina Turner before her, will public scrutiny of Nigella's pain perhaps
:35:57. > :36:02.give other woman the hope that they deserve? It has been a big story,
:36:02. > :36:07.partly because it involved two very well-known people, particularly
:36:07. > :36:14.Nigella Lawson, and the pictures that were taken. We have Trisha and
:36:14. > :36:17.Charlie here. Why is this of particular importance to you?
:36:17. > :36:21.woman's aid ambassador for the past three years and I do a lot of
:36:21. > :36:26.fundraising and raise awareness. It is very personal to me and I believe
:36:26. > :36:31.it is a prevalent issue, and some of the fundraising I have done is
:36:31. > :36:38.running marathons, stand-up comedy. This is set up with women who are
:36:38. > :36:43.being abused? Yes, but children as well. They are shutting refuges,
:36:43. > :36:48.helplines, access, and also campaigning to get things in.
:36:49. > :36:53.been involved in mental health for 27 years. Where you get any domestic
:36:53. > :36:58.abuse, against women, children, men, you usually get some mental health
:36:58. > :37:04.fallout. This story resonated because it involved two famous
:37:04. > :37:09.people, two famous names, one particularly famous person. We have
:37:09. > :37:14.the photographs, that happened in the open air. But also because it
:37:14. > :37:21.involved, just to summarise a little bit, it involved well-known,
:37:21. > :37:24.middle-class people who are posh. Don't you think? There is a
:37:24. > :37:28.stereotype. People often point to the guests on my show both in
:37:28. > :37:33.England and in the states, there is a stereotype that it is a
:37:33. > :37:37.working-class problem, the sort of thing that happens on a sink estate.
:37:37. > :37:41.Suddenly, it is posh people in a posh restaurant. I keep thinking
:37:41. > :37:45.that if we had been talking about Nicky and Chaz at the local
:37:45. > :37:48.McDonald's, somebody would have jumped up. We would have had the
:37:48. > :37:54.Angel of Anglesey would have intervened, and politicians would be
:37:54. > :37:59.talking about the issue. I get the feeling there is a lot of
:37:59. > :38:06.embarrassment about it, because what do we do? They are not them, they
:38:06. > :38:11.are us. There is a class element. Yes, but it is important not just
:38:11. > :38:14.the class element at the fact that people think Nigella is confident
:38:14. > :38:21.and independent. What do you expect a woman going through domestic abuse
:38:21. > :38:24.to look like? Her head on the floor? As Tricia has said, it happens to
:38:24. > :38:29.outwardly confident and independent women because it is not all about
:38:29. > :38:35.physical violence. It is emotional abuse, financial control as well.
:38:35. > :38:40.And image. But that is what made it such an important story, because it
:38:40. > :38:48.countered the public caricature that abuse only happens among poor
:38:48. > :38:53.people, among very strong men and very weak women. And this showed,
:38:53. > :38:57.actually, it can happen in any social strata, and it is happening.
:38:57. > :39:00.It is interesting to see the comments people are making online.
:39:00. > :39:04.If you look online at the newspapers, it has attracted a lot
:39:05. > :39:08.of comment all the way through from, this is a trifling matter, nothing
:39:08. > :39:14.to do with anybody else, we should stay out of it, it should be behind
:39:14. > :39:20.closed doors, although it was a public place, all the way to outrage
:39:20. > :39:24.and run, Nigella, run. There is a whole spectrum of reaction. That
:39:24. > :39:30.shows the lack of understanding of domestic abuse. To think it should
:39:30. > :39:34.happen in the home, that is such an old-fashioned thing. It is a society
:39:34. > :39:39.problem and has a massive impact on society, on children, on financial
:39:39. > :39:46.imprecations of society as well. And just because it is happening in the
:39:46. > :39:51.home, does that mean it is OK? People have said this will lead to
:39:51. > :39:56.more awareness and understanding of domestic abuse. There is also a
:39:56. > :40:01.possibility that, at the end of the day, this is as much a story about
:40:01. > :40:08.celebrity as it is about domestic abuse. There is an element of that.
:40:08. > :40:11.But I come back to the posh bird bit. I am waiting for all of the
:40:11. > :40:16.newspapers who usually cover the posh end of things to start actually
:40:16. > :40:21.running campaigns aimed at middle-class women. I think that
:40:21. > :40:29.would break a lot of the taboos, and a lot of the myths about domestic
:40:29. > :40:34.violence. But also aimed at men. Why is it a women issue? Surely, as a
:40:34. > :40:39.man, you want to be, I am not tarnished as that, as somebody who
:40:39. > :40:45.would hit, control a woman. I do not want to be tarnished with that. Men
:40:45. > :40:50.have sisters, mothers, grandmas, so it is not just a women's issue.
:40:50. > :40:56.Politicians were forced to get involved in this, and Nick Clegg and
:40:56. > :41:02.others, not very successfully. is domestic violence. 30 years ago
:41:02. > :41:05.that might have just passed, because 30 years ago the police did not take
:41:05. > :41:12.domestic violence seriously. Statistics show that since they did
:41:12. > :41:16.start to take it seriously, and domestic violence has come down,
:41:16. > :41:20.other forms of crime have gone down as well. There is an argument that
:41:20. > :41:26.says if people get away with domestic violence, they commit other
:41:26. > :41:32.crimes. I think you have said everything there is to say about
:41:32. > :41:38.it. If it was a truck driver or a labourer, people would have passed
:41:38. > :41:43.it by. Now they realise that domestic violence affects everybody.
:41:43. > :41:48.But have we intruded into a problem that is between this couple, and if
:41:48. > :41:53.it involves abuse it should involve the police. You would like to think
:41:53. > :42:02.if you saw a woman with a man with his hand around her neck, you would
:42:02. > :42:08.not take a pic of it, you would go and try and help the woman. Let me
:42:08. > :42:13.bring in Michael. I was wondering what the impact of celebrity was. On
:42:13. > :42:17.the one hand, we say it is good that there is a focus on issues that had
:42:17. > :42:21.been hidden. Many of us are puzzled as to why women cannot get out of
:42:21. > :42:26.abusive situations. This can go on for years and years and they never
:42:26. > :42:30.feel able to walk away. If it really is the case that Nigella is in an
:42:30. > :42:38.abusive situation and has not been able to walk away, this makes it
:42:38. > :42:43.even more extraordinary. I wonder whether people would think, if even
:42:43. > :42:47.Nigella cannot walk away, how could I be expected to do that? Are we in
:42:47. > :42:54.danger of reading too much into one incident with famous people of which
:42:54. > :42:57.someone took a photograph? You spoke about interference. You should not
:42:57. > :43:03.intervene because you are at risk from the perpetrator and the victim.
:43:03. > :43:07.The victim is in this situation, but you do not know what control is
:43:07. > :43:13.going on in that environment, the home environment. It is not just
:43:13. > :43:17.physical. This is really important. We do not know anything other than
:43:17. > :43:22.the picture. You should call the police, because you do not know the
:43:22. > :43:26.consequences that home. It might get worse if you intervene. Many people
:43:26. > :43:30.have said, why is there this debate when we do not know what is going
:43:30. > :43:34.on? Is it to my husband, how would you be if in public you said
:43:34. > :43:39.something I did not like, and the only way I could shut you up would
:43:39. > :43:45.be to put your hand over -- my hand over your mouth, or you put your
:43:45. > :43:49.hands over my throat? In public, if you can do that under those
:43:49. > :43:52.circumstances, in public, what can you do behind closed doors?
:43:52. > :43:55.That's your lot for tonight, folks. But not for us. Because, like good
:43:55. > :44:00.girl guides, we're being true to ourselves tonight and heading to
:44:00. > :44:03.Annabel's with Trisha and Charlie. We've had to remind Michael that
:44:03. > :44:12.Charlie's a talented amateur boxer, with a mean right-hook, so no funny
:44:13. > :44:15.business during the cha-cha-cha, Choo Choo. But we leave you tonight
:44:15. > :44:18.with news that President Obama dealt Chancellor Gideon a visibly crushing
:44:18. > :44:21.blow this week at the G8 when he apparently confused Boy George