:00:15. > :00:19.More drama in the NHS, as politicians clash over who's to
:00:19. > :00:29.blame for failing hospitals. Paediatrician and CBeebies doctor
:00:29. > :00:31.
:00:31. > :00:35.Ranj Singh gives us his diagnosis. No recent government has a clean
:00:35. > :00:38.bill of health when it comes to interfering with the NHS. It is time
:00:38. > :00:41.to put patients before politics. With public health U-turns on
:00:41. > :00:49.tobacco and alcohol, The Economist's Anne McElvoy asks whether the nanny
:00:49. > :00:54.state always knows best. They have been squabbling like toddlers at the
:00:54. > :00:57.dispatch 's, but it is not about the policy. All that any mum wants to
:00:57. > :01:00.say is, it is his fault. And with the sport of athletics on
:01:00. > :01:07.life support following yet more drug-taking, Uri Geller talks about
:01:07. > :01:10.the power of reputation. reputation is being a mind-reader,
:01:10. > :01:14.but there is much more to it than meets the eye.
:01:14. > :01:24.Shall we turn off the life support machine and go on holiday? Matron, I
:01:24. > :01:30.Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week. And thank the Lord - Patten - for
:01:30. > :01:35.his merciful ways. We come to the final show of the series. I suspect,
:01:35. > :01:39.dear viewer, this is as much a relief to you as it is to us. But at
:01:39. > :01:43.least we get paid, even if it is only a pittance, the small change
:01:43. > :01:46.left down the sofa by the latest BBC executive to trouser a massive pay
:01:46. > :01:49.off. But you deserve more, a princely sum, for having to sit
:01:49. > :01:54.through the usual self-serving drivel from the worst shirts in
:01:54. > :01:58.showbusiness. But I digress. It's often said, mostly by us when we
:01:58. > :02:01.can't think of anything else to say, that the problem with today's
:02:01. > :02:04.politicians is they don't actually believe in anything. Remember the
:02:04. > :02:07.good old days, we drone, when Labour believed in representing the
:02:07. > :02:11.interests of the plebs while the Tories looked after the maters and
:02:11. > :02:13.paters of the thick poshos on Made in Chelsea, and the Lib Dems
:02:13. > :02:19.believed in representing the interests of dope-smoking stoners
:02:19. > :02:22.with a kinky interest in proportional representation? But
:02:22. > :02:24.this week there stepped forward a politician who does believe in
:02:24. > :02:26.something, faith-based Work and Pensions Secretary, Iain Duncan
:02:27. > :02:30.Smith, who, when challenged to provide evidence to show his
:02:30. > :02:37.benefits cap would work, dismissed the need for anything so grubby and
:02:37. > :02:40.empirical. "I have a belief I am right," he exclaimed. Of course, he
:02:40. > :02:45.couldn't actually prove it was working but no-one could disprove it
:02:45. > :02:51.wasn't either, which sort of puts the benefit cap on a par with God.
:02:51. > :02:55.Or the Loch Ness monster. Or both. Speaking of those who make it up as
:02:55. > :02:59.they go along, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two mini heat waves.
:02:59. > :03:02.Think of them as the hot flush and hot lips of late night political
:03:02. > :03:12.chat. I speak, of course, of #manontheleft Alan "AJ" Johnson, and
:03:12. > :03:16.
:03:16. > :03:24.#sadmanonatrain Michael "Choo Choo" Portillo.
:03:24. > :03:29.Michael, your moment of the week. Molly the dog has woken up to hear
:03:29. > :03:33.it. I bumped into a field marshal, a former chief of the defence staff,
:03:33. > :03:38.who agrees with me that we do not need an independent nuclear
:03:38. > :03:41.deterrent. He asked me how we get politicians off the hook. It
:03:41. > :03:45.occurred to me this week that the way is what the Liberal Democrats
:03:45. > :03:49.are proposing. The Liberal Democrats, like all politicians,
:03:49. > :03:54.will not go the whole hog and say, let's get rid of nuclear weapons.
:03:54. > :03:58.But they are saying, let's save half the cost and only have nuclear
:03:58. > :04:03.weapons deployed at sea for half the time, when we think the threat is
:04:03. > :04:11.rising. And I think, over a period of time, this would get the
:04:11. > :04:14.politicians of the hook. They would save half the cost. I am glad the
:04:14. > :04:19.field marshal agrees with you, unlike the secretaries of State for
:04:20. > :04:27.defence who do not agree with you. Among secretaries of state, I am in
:04:27. > :04:34.a minority. Among Field marshals, I am not sure. Field marshals do not
:04:34. > :04:41.have the deterrent. It is the Navy. Well spotted. The acquittal of
:04:41. > :04:43.George Zimmerman. In the United States. Here is a young black kid
:04:43. > :04:49.walking back from a store, completely innocent, gets attacked
:04:50. > :04:54.by a guy with a gun, virtually every June anti-. He has nothing. It takes
:04:54. > :04:58.the police 44 days to charge him, because they say that self
:04:58. > :05:02.protection law did not allow them to prosecute, and then he is acquitted
:05:02. > :05:07.of murder and of manslaughter as well. America has not just got its
:05:07. > :05:13.first lack resident in Obama, but its first black Attorney General,
:05:13. > :05:17.and there are many who feel it is still back in the 1950s, when that
:05:17. > :05:23.kind of thing could happen. I would have thought the reaction would be
:05:23. > :05:32.much worse. So would I. We grew up looking at black-and-white film of
:05:32. > :05:39.all kinds of things happening. just that. But Rodney King provoked
:05:39. > :05:43.several days of riots. It is great that has not happened, but it is
:05:43. > :05:46.still in competence of or how they could reach that decision. It is
:05:46. > :05:50.amazing. Now, what's the closest thing we
:05:50. > :05:53.have to a national religion? Other than women's football. The NHS, of
:05:53. > :05:56.course. Politically, it's been untouchable, impossible to
:05:56. > :05:59.criticise. Has that all changed this week? Labour and Tory front benches
:05:59. > :06:04.lashed out, following a report into failing hospitals this week, trying
:06:04. > :06:07.to blame each other. But is it not the role of a candid friend to be
:06:07. > :06:17.critical? And what do the medical profession think? We turned to NHS
:06:17. > :06:39.
:06:39. > :06:43.doctor and CBeebies presenter Ranj the opening ceremony of the
:06:43. > :06:48.Olympics. The National Health Service was celebrated as a national
:06:48. > :06:55.treasure. There were scenes of children jumping on beds with nurses
:06:55. > :06:59.dancing around them, almost like a scene from my TV show. One year on,
:06:59. > :07:03.the rose tinted picture of the NHS is shattered. This week the
:07:03. > :07:07.government announced it was placing 11 hospital trust is into special
:07:07. > :07:13.measures because of major failings, such as staffing problems, poor care
:07:13. > :07:19.and weak leadership. As a doctor who worked in one of those trusts, I
:07:19. > :07:22.must say I am not surprised. Despite high levels of dedication and
:07:22. > :07:26.determination, staff are overstretched, some too exhausted
:07:26. > :07:32.and too scared to speak up. Others have fallen into the comfort of
:07:32. > :07:36.complacency. More and more money is sucked up by managers, bureaucracy
:07:36. > :07:41.and consultants, and leaders appear complacent, or even careless. This
:07:41. > :07:46.is not limited to a small number of hospitals. It is happening up and
:07:46. > :07:49.down the country. Watching political parties clash over who is to blame
:07:49. > :07:54.for failing hospitals is a depressing sight, but politicians
:07:54. > :07:57.have never been able to leave the NHS alone. Labour brought in endless
:07:57. > :08:03.targets which meant some hospitals rushed patients through to meet
:08:03. > :08:08.them. And they set up the Care Quality Commission, which in itself
:08:08. > :08:10.seems unfit for purpose. Despite promising no more top-down
:08:10. > :08:18.reorganisation of the NHS, the current government is doing just
:08:18. > :08:22.that. That is the diagnosis, but what would I prescribe? Changes to
:08:22. > :08:26.the NHS do need to be made but they should be dictated by the needs of
:08:26. > :08:32.patients, not politicians. Anyone who has worked in the NHS will know
:08:32. > :08:35.there is a great deal of wastage and efficiencies can be made. It drives
:08:35. > :08:40.me mad to see nurses filling in endless reports and forms and not
:08:40. > :08:45.having time to do their job. It is not about nurses being too clever to
:08:45. > :08:49.care, but about not having enough time. We also need to think about
:08:49. > :08:53.our expectations and what the NHS can provide. That might involve a
:08:53. > :08:56.radical revision of how we meet those needs. In children's care, my
:08:56. > :09:03.specialism, the future is likely to involve the development of better
:09:03. > :09:07.specialist units that -- supporting fewer improved satellite sites, and
:09:07. > :09:10.better integration into primary care. We are going to have to learn
:09:10. > :09:15.to live with less, including politicians, and they will have to
:09:15. > :09:20.be brave enough to back the streamlining of services, even if it
:09:20. > :09:25.involves closures within their constituencies. I love and respect
:09:25. > :09:28.our NHS. We all want it to be like the picture portrayed in the Olympic
:09:28. > :09:33.opening ceremony, but we are going to have to be honest about the bad
:09:33. > :09:37.it's as well as the good. Until we acknowledge the floors, we cannot
:09:37. > :09:41.make the improvements that are necessary. But one thing is for
:09:41. > :09:44.sure, if we carry on as we are, there is a very real risk that the
:09:44. > :09:48.NHS will burn out. And from the View Tube garden
:09:48. > :09:56.overlooking the Olympic Park to our own little garden of Eden in the
:09:56. > :10:02.heart of Westminster, Dr Ranj joins us now. You worked at the Medway
:10:02. > :10:06.Foundation Trust. Yes.You said you are not surprised it is being put
:10:06. > :10:11.into special measures. Why are doctors, clinicians and bureaucrats
:10:11. > :10:15.working there, why are they scared to speak out? I would not say I am
:10:15. > :10:19.an expert on why they are, and I am not a politician but I do work in
:10:19. > :10:24.the coal face, and I am one of the people who has been involved and
:10:24. > :10:29.affected by everything that is going on with the NHS. Why are they scared
:10:29. > :10:34.to speak out? The biggest fear is that no one is listening. Not just
:10:34. > :10:38.that no one is listening, but that they will be suppressed. We are
:10:38. > :10:42.listening now, but is it too late? Is there still enough that we can
:10:42. > :10:46.do? To be honest, people need to listen, but there is listening and
:10:46. > :10:51.then there is acting on what people are saying. If you have pressure
:10:52. > :10:56.coming from the top, from various organisations, it is very difficult
:10:56. > :11:03.to get your voice heard. You say the problems are more widespread than
:11:03. > :11:06.even after the Bruce Keogh report. That looked at 14 trusts and
:11:06. > :11:09.highlighted several deficiencies and recommended improvements, but every
:11:09. > :11:14.hospital around the country has scope to improve to some extent.
:11:14. > :11:19.These are not problems that are unique to those 14 trusts is. The
:11:19. > :11:22.difficulty is that they are full of April that are working their hardest
:11:22. > :11:27.to make it work. There is a very small proportion that could do
:11:27. > :11:33.better, I agree, but the vast majority are doing the best they
:11:33. > :11:38.can. It is not their fault. As a former health secretary, why does it
:11:38. > :11:41.take a report like this to bring these terrible failures to light?
:11:41. > :11:48.Why don't ministers, civil servants, special advisers, why
:11:48. > :11:52.don't they know already? Because you set up independent regulators to be
:11:52. > :11:55.separate from government and to go in and do the job that ministers and
:11:55. > :12:05.civil servants cannot do properly. Previous regulators did not do it
:12:05. > :12:06.
:12:06. > :12:08.very well. What Bruce Keogh has got, they sent a team in of not just
:12:08. > :12:15.clinicians but also patient representatives and GPs and nurses
:12:15. > :12:19.and others, a team of 12 to 14, and they looked to see not just a
:12:19. > :12:24.technical appraisal, but a cultural appraisal. They spoke a lot to
:12:24. > :12:29.patients and staff. That was not the traditional way of doing
:12:29. > :12:32.inspections. We are grasping for a way of getting better regulation.
:12:32. > :12:38.When you were health secretary, did you have no idea that these things
:12:38. > :12:41.could be happening in certain hospitals? I did, because the Health
:12:41. > :12:45.Care Commision, the predecessor of the Care Quality Commission, were
:12:45. > :12:55.telling us. They went into Stafford and gave us the report. They went
:12:55. > :12:59.into Maidstone. Those reports then come to you, but we need to have an
:12:59. > :13:05.independent regulator. The word independent is very meaningful. The
:13:05. > :13:10.other thing that you point out is a separate issue where politicians
:13:10. > :13:14.and, I think, clinicians, have to be brave enough to say the whole way
:13:14. > :13:21.that the NHS is configured, which is a hospital based service, has to
:13:21. > :13:28.change. But they are two separate issues. Let me put two things to you
:13:28. > :13:32.for discussion. The way the NHS is configured, the organisational roots
:13:32. > :13:39.go back to the 1940s. No Secretary of State for health can control what
:13:39. > :13:45.is going on in it. It is too centralised and too vast for one
:13:45. > :13:53.politician. Nigel Lawson once said the NHS was a religion. Is that the
:13:53. > :13:58.reason we don't get the service we deserve? Yes, on the second point.
:13:58. > :14:08.It has become a religion and it has become immune to reform and on that
:14:08. > :14:12.first point, it is the classic nationalised industry, it is far too
:14:12. > :14:19.big and it be then at -- it benefits the people employed rather than the
:14:19. > :14:23.people who service should be delivered to. To say that it is
:14:23. > :14:26.because people are under pressure, in some of these cases it is
:14:26. > :14:32.perfectly clear that there was absolute neglect and neglect by the
:14:32. > :14:36.people whose job it was to look after people directly but there must
:14:36. > :14:41.be neglect by every consultant who walks the wards and sees people
:14:41. > :14:47.lying in their own urine. Dying of thirst. And he did not think about
:14:47. > :14:56.that. I don't think it is honest to say that we have asked nurses to
:14:56. > :15:01.fill out too many forms. It takes being on the shopfloor to understand
:15:01. > :15:04.the intricacies of the NHS and there are a vast to people doing an
:15:04. > :15:11.amazing job and those who get highlighted by the tiniest
:15:11. > :15:17.proportion and we should address that but if we are honest, you say
:15:17. > :15:22.the NHS is immune to reform. If so, stop trying to reform it. Every
:15:22. > :15:28.government comes in and there is another reorganisation which is not
:15:28. > :15:32.always based on evidence or welcome and it takes time to recover.
:15:32. > :15:36.Sometimes it is a good idea and we need to change things to make them
:15:36. > :15:40.better but the problem is we only are just getting to the point where
:15:40. > :15:47.we are starting to get to grips with things and someone comes in and
:15:47. > :15:51.changes it. Let me explain, firstly that we continue the model of a
:15:51. > :15:55.single National Health Service and what is wrong is the national part,
:15:55. > :16:01.we are trying to manage an organisation of 1 million people and
:16:01. > :16:04.not only is that unwieldy but it means we have a lack of local
:16:04. > :16:08.sensitivity and a lack of competition, in the sense of some
:16:08. > :16:12.people doing things better than one place than in others. Therefore,
:16:12. > :16:18.people have the urge to catch up. And the great prejudice against
:16:18. > :16:22.using the private sector which has existed over the decades, and I am
:16:22. > :16:28.afraid that I think the deterioration of the National Health
:16:28. > :16:33.Service and its reputation is actually important to bringing about
:16:33. > :16:38.something quite different in the future, something better. You talk
:16:38. > :16:43.about streamlining and centralising services. You could argue that it is
:16:43. > :16:48.always far too centralised? Nobody at the centre can control it? The
:16:48. > :16:55.Danish have a system like ours, funded by taxation, free at the
:16:55. > :16:59.point of use and does not matter what your wealth is, you get care.
:16:59. > :17:06.But it is locally controlled? And the people who run that locally are
:17:06. > :17:12.held to account by their local community. Yes, but we need to
:17:12. > :17:15.realise that their society and environment is different. We can put
:17:15. > :17:20.other countries and learn from them and that is a good idea but we need
:17:20. > :17:25.to put things into context and one of those points was that you said no
:17:25. > :17:30.politician can control the NHS so then stop using it as a pawn. It has
:17:30. > :17:33.come the piggy in the middle and the people at the heart of the NHS,
:17:33. > :17:40.working and striving and trying to make things work, they are being
:17:40. > :17:43.danced around. But is because of any hospital goes belly up or it is
:17:43. > :17:49.discovered that hundreds are dying, it should not be the Secretary of
:17:49. > :17:55.State in London, who has never been to that hospital... The media will
:17:55. > :18:03.hold them accountable? If it deadpan falls on the floor, it echoes around
:18:03. > :18:07.the country. Rudolf Klein, the great historian, said we have been through
:18:07. > :18:13.control and we are going back to locally driven watchwords of the
:18:13. > :18:15.Primary Care Trusts and they have been thrown up into the air and I
:18:15. > :18:20.don't understand Michael 's reference to the nationalised
:18:20. > :18:23.industry. The problems of the NHS are nothing to do with it being
:18:24. > :18:29.publicly owned, they are to do with, in a sense, producer capture was
:18:29. > :18:33.right, they always had a system for balancing books, it was called the
:18:33. > :18:37.waiting list. They stopped operating in November because it was the end
:18:37. > :18:43.of the financial year. Once those waiting lists were driven down, they
:18:43. > :18:47.had to sort out finances and you will remember not just Patricia
:18:47. > :18:51.Hewitt getting trotted out, it is not as if we went through our time
:18:51. > :18:56.in office and we were keen not to upset the workforce - that had to
:18:56. > :19:00.happen to put the NHS on a more stable footing. The problem is the
:19:00. > :19:07.concentration on quality and if you could concentrate on quality,
:19:07. > :19:12.locally driven, yes, and get on with it, I think that has been one of the
:19:12. > :19:18.major problems. We will let you former Health Secretary have the
:19:18. > :19:27.final word. Using my telepathic powers... I know what you're
:19:27. > :19:33.thinking. I hear the words... Blue. None. Hangover in the morning. But I
:19:33. > :19:38.also have a strange, tinkling sensation. Waiting in the wings, a
:19:38. > :19:43.mystery to all of us, the one and only Uri Geller. He will talk about
:19:43. > :19:51.the power of reputation. For those of you who don't have any reputation
:19:51. > :19:56.to lose, get ready to be ignored on social media. The anticipation is
:19:56. > :20:00.rising and temperatures rise, the press corps sufferers. Camp outside
:20:00. > :20:05.a London hospital, waiting for the arrival of an overdue royal baby.
:20:05. > :20:13.Even Her Majesty brokers silence, she just wanted to arrive so she can
:20:13. > :20:22.go off on her holidays. We said the Economist's Anne McElvoy to do a
:20:22. > :20:30.spot of preparation. This is a round-up of the political week.
:20:30. > :20:35.the brakes on. I have been jittery this week, like Mr Fleet Street,
:20:35. > :20:42.waiting for the arrival of a certain baby. Even the Queen has been
:20:42. > :20:47.expecting... I am going on holidays! My brood are safely locked up in the
:20:47. > :20:53.education system so I borrowed Agnes and Joseph to remind me of the joys
:20:53. > :20:59.of childcare. I might even put myself forward as a Mary Poppins to
:20:59. > :21:04.the new Prince or Princess. I am sure she could use my experience in
:21:04. > :21:07.dealing with the little ones. Like some of our Parliament dreams, they
:21:07. > :21:17.have resorted to squabbling and throwing temper tantrums. Come on,
:21:17. > :21:31.
:21:31. > :21:38.they will be born into a tide of restorative. People on welfare, not
:21:38. > :21:42.in work, apart from those who are exempt, such as the disabled, they
:21:42. > :21:45.should not be earning more than average earnings after tax, which is
:21:45. > :21:50.fair to the taxpayers. The thinking is pretty clear, stop those on
:21:50. > :21:52.benefits you do not seem to be able to stop having children, from
:21:52. > :21:56.claiming too much. But that puts Labour in a difficult position. They
:21:57. > :22:00.are in favour of a benefits cap, just not the one on offer. The
:22:00. > :22:04.benefit cap is good idea in principle but the one today has
:22:04. > :22:08.proven such a shambles in practice so we have learned that there are
:22:08. > :22:16.4000 families, about 10%, with large hammers of children who will not
:22:16. > :22:26.come under this when introduced. Hang on, Liam Byrne actually thinks
:22:26. > :22:28.
:22:28. > :22:32.that it is to lose. And some Lib Dems say, that is not very... It is
:22:32. > :22:36.about the worst kind of politics and chasing popular is that the expense
:22:37. > :22:42.of children's world being is not something I care for. She is a nice
:22:42. > :22:48.lady! Well, Joseph, you might like that Lady butter attitude is not
:22:48. > :22:52.very popular. So, she is also thinking about the next election and
:22:52. > :22:56.the need to separate the Lib Dems from those nasty Tories. The
:22:56. > :22:59.Conservatives are determined to keep welfare cuts at the heart of their
:22:59. > :23:09.pitch for election. It might be brittle but it is probably quite
:23:09. > :23:13.
:23:13. > :23:23.effective. -- brittle. -- brutal. It is important to keep the little ones
:23:23. > :23:23.
:23:23. > :23:29.cool, otherwise they can get grumpy. Delightful child! But there have
:23:29. > :23:34.been noises at the dispatch box over something rather serious - report
:23:34. > :23:40.into failures at some NHS hospitals. The Tories say... It is all his
:23:40. > :23:44.fault! And the Labour Party say... It is all his fault! This has been a
:23:44. > :23:50.decisive week by the way the NHS plays into politics. The shift that
:23:50. > :23:54.matters is that the health service is no longer beyond criticism. If
:23:54. > :23:59.the NHS is considered labourers crowning achievement, today is no
:23:59. > :24:03.darkest moment. As a Labour government is exposed as caring more
:24:03. > :24:09.about its own reputation and our most vulnerable citizens in the NHS.
:24:10. > :24:16.You should not play politics with people 's lives with the NHS, on
:24:16. > :24:19.which all people depend. As a well-known childcare guru, I find
:24:19. > :24:25.the hardest thing is to get children to give away their choice, even when
:24:25. > :24:29.they are finished playing with them. I bet Liberal Democrat children do
:24:29. > :24:35.not get to play with heavy weaponry. They have been back on their hobby
:24:35. > :24:40.horse, asking us to reconsider the nuclear deterrent. It is time to
:24:40. > :24:43.move on from the Cold War, to adapt our deterrents to the 21st century
:24:43. > :24:51.in a way that does not copy my 's national security. The only thing
:24:51. > :24:54.that has changed is that the fights between Tories and Lib Dems seem to
:24:54. > :25:01.have eased. It is a longer unthinkable to think that we could
:25:01. > :25:07.have another Cornish and after the next election. Our prime minister
:25:07. > :25:11.does not like the nanny state much. What do you reckon? Did he not like
:25:11. > :25:15.his nanny when he was little? And the prices of cigarette packaging
:25:15. > :25:25.stays the same. But it's about politics, which give Labour the
:25:25. > :25:25.
:25:26. > :25:30.chance to take Mr Lynton Crosby. Ed Miliband 's narrative is of rich,
:25:30. > :25:37.cynical conservatives. Has he ever had any conversation with Lynton
:25:37. > :25:46.Crosby about cigarette packaging? has never lobbied me on anything but
:25:46. > :25:52.if he wants a scandal, why doesn't he faced the fact that the trade
:25:52. > :25:57.unions by his Cabinet and his leadership. He is the Prime Minister
:25:57. > :26:02.for Benson and hedge funds Santino is at! But the Tories are off with a
:26:02. > :26:08.spring in their step for summer, even stop moaning. Ed Miliband might
:26:08. > :26:11.relish the royal baby as a distraction from his modest poll
:26:11. > :26:21.ratings amid doubts of whether we can envisage him up on the steps of
:26:21. > :26:22.
:26:22. > :26:28.number ten. But you learn to love them in the end! Joseph? ! The Mary
:26:28. > :26:32.Poppins of the programme. Brandon Jones, welcome back. The Tories,
:26:32. > :26:38.very surprising that the stage, going off to the recess with a
:26:38. > :26:43.spring in their step, the economy is improving from a low base. Do they
:26:43. > :26:49.believe they might win the next election? Yes, I think so. We have
:26:49. > :26:55.had the whole service, the economy, going well, advocate either has gone
:26:55. > :27:03.home. The economy going better. The Prime Minister is doing better at
:27:03. > :27:06.questions. I have mentioned this before but as I see it, there are
:27:06. > :27:09.these firm rules and politics and when the public decides of the
:27:09. > :27:15.leader of the opposition is not prime ministerial behaviour, that
:27:15. > :27:20.person does not win. Neil Kinnock, Michael Howard. Iain Duncan Smith.
:27:20. > :27:25.But the second rule is, you do not increase their share of the vote
:27:25. > :27:31.went in office. And David Cameron only got 37% and he needs more for
:27:31. > :27:34.the majority. He needs 40%. And he was off that last time and it would
:27:35. > :27:38.be extraordinary if they could put on three percentage points. Some
:27:38. > :27:44.Tories believe they could win the outright majority but I do not think
:27:44. > :27:48.they can explain how that could happen. Rand, good news for Mr Clegg
:27:48. > :27:58.and the Lib Dems that Mr Cameron and the Tories have spring in their
:27:58. > :27:59.
:27:59. > :28:04.step? I think so, but the big? whether or not the UK economy
:28:04. > :28:09.recovery can mean the Lib Dems recover? If things are getting
:28:09. > :28:15.better for the coalition, particularly on the economic front,
:28:15. > :28:19.the Tories, the danger is, they get the credit? That is true but the Lib
:28:20. > :28:25.Dems are in good heart and they feel that the year has gone well and the
:28:25. > :28:29.East the by-election was the turning point. And they have slightly more
:28:29. > :28:32.focused messages than before. The big decision for them is whether or
:28:32. > :28:36.not they continue with this idea that they need to differentiate all
:28:36. > :28:42.the time and say, the Tories are the nasty party and we are the nice
:28:42. > :28:47.ones. Or if, in the run-up to the general election, actually carry on
:28:47. > :28:54.saying, this is what the coalition can do in the times of national
:28:54. > :28:59.crisis. And getting a balance right is truly difficult. This is the
:28:59. > :29:03.point in the political cycle, halfway between elections, when the
:29:03. > :29:07.government of the day is meant to be in the doldrums and the opposition
:29:07. > :29:13.is meant to be unrealistically ahead in opinion polls. What has gone
:29:13. > :29:20.wrong? The coalition must be wishing they had for years as a fixed
:29:20. > :29:23.parliament! Because a lot can happen. But Michael spoke about
:29:23. > :29:28.those general rules and is another general rule that only once in the
:29:28. > :29:33.last 80 years as a party one an election the first time after
:29:33. > :29:38.losing. After five years out of office. That is a very big task. The
:29:38. > :29:41.reason I am encouraged, and I do agree, Cameron has got a spring in
:29:41. > :29:48.his step and Clegg, I thought he would go before the next general
:29:48. > :29:54.election. He is looking less likely. And he has this Zen like transfer
:29:54. > :30:00.all of this stuff is going on around him. But the thing about Ed Miliband
:30:00. > :30:05.is, do not underestimate his speech about levy payers. What he has done
:30:05. > :30:08.in reaction to what was happening at Falkirk is huge stuff. Provided it
:30:08. > :30:15.is carried through and we talk about clause four, but this is even
:30:15. > :30:20.bigger. If this comes off, it shows a level of leadership that I think
:30:20. > :30:25.will perhaps not put him in that position that Neil Kinnock and the
:30:25. > :30:32.others were in. If Labour struggled to get too far ahead in the polls
:30:32. > :30:36.when the economy was in the tag, what happens if the worst is over
:30:36. > :30:44.and things are improving? labour, and the issue has always
:30:44. > :30:50.been the NHS, but they are even on the back foot on that. They are
:30:50. > :30:55.still ahead on that. But that first part of the Parliament... We got the
:30:55. > :31:00.lowest, second lowest votes... It is a long way to come back and we were
:31:00. > :31:05.sitting ducks in the economy. To be blamed for that. I would not take
:31:05. > :31:09.that as anything provided but it is all to play for and the IMF said
:31:09. > :31:13.that we are very long way from a sustainable recovery. No one says
:31:13. > :31:19.this is a recovery of the time we have known before. Lynton Crosby,
:31:19. > :31:25.Michael, is he a problem for Mr Cameron or is he the reason that the
:31:25. > :31:32.Tory message is more focused and sharper and much more resonating?
:31:32. > :31:38.think of. He is probably less of a problem than he is because of
:31:38. > :31:43.success. The focus is being successful. And they are hurling
:31:43. > :31:50.overboard policies that were upsetting the grassroots. Getting
:31:50. > :31:55.rid of the barnacles on the boat? I think it is a problem. But Lynton
:31:55. > :32:05.Crosby has a consultancy that has Philip Morris, the tobacco company.
:32:05. > :32:10.But for the moment the damage that does to the Tory party, at this
:32:10. > :32:15.stage, cannot be prepared -- compared with any benefits. Are the
:32:15. > :32:19.Lib Dems comfortable with Lynton Crosby? They will be very
:32:19. > :32:28.comfortable if he becomes a problem for the Conservative Party. I am
:32:28. > :32:35.sure that Michael is right. It is not difficult to understand that the
:32:35. > :32:42.man in charge might be privy to the party and it is like Bill Clinton,
:32:42. > :32:45.these denials. Why not just come clean? Yes, of course we have
:32:45. > :32:50.discussed this and I know he has paid for one side of the argument so
:32:50. > :32:54.I don't let that influence by judgement. It would be much better.
:32:54. > :33:01.Isn't one of the problems when looking at the coalition at the
:33:01. > :33:06.moment, it is Cameron and the Tories that everybody is talking about? The
:33:06. > :33:11.way it has been covered, not covered as a coalition, it is covered
:33:11. > :33:15.overwhelmingly as Conservative lead? There is an article in the new
:33:15. > :33:19.statesman about that. Cameron has always been a very good performer.
:33:19. > :33:25.He did not seem to have a good machine around him in the early
:33:25. > :33:28.years and part of that was deciding that he did not need all of these
:33:28. > :33:32.levers at Downing Street, and he criticised Tony Blair for having too
:33:32. > :33:36.many special advisers. He soon learned that if you have not got
:33:36. > :33:45.those leaders at the centre, nothing will happen. They have smartened up
:33:45. > :33:52.but it is a long way. And I would be more worried, in a sense, if we were
:33:52. > :33:56.picking too early. He might have peaked too soon? ! The BBC does not
:33:56. > :34:01.forget that this coalition government has not faced the
:34:01. > :34:05.opposition, from the BBC, but Margaret Thatcher did. That is
:34:05. > :34:10.because the BBC does not have the right to attack a government that
:34:10. > :34:14.got 60% of the vote and things like the schools reforms and the National
:34:14. > :34:18.Health Service reforms, welfare reforms, they have been allied
:34:18. > :34:22.through by the media, largely represented in the BBC, in a way
:34:22. > :34:28.that they would not have been if they had been Thatcher reforms.
:34:28. > :34:31.Minority or majority Conservative government. That is partly true but
:34:31. > :34:35.obviously it is very much in the interest of the Lib Dems to pipe up
:34:35. > :34:40.as much as they can about their priorities and things like taking
:34:40. > :34:45.the poorest out of income tax, but, surprisingly, does resonate on the
:34:45. > :34:49.doorsteps and it is very important that they get that policy. In
:34:49. > :34:52.Eastleigh, they proved they got the credit for that and in their next
:34:52. > :34:56.manifesto, they want to make that more ambitious, everyone earning
:34:56. > :35:03.minimum wage is out of income tax. That is clearly identifiable. And
:35:03. > :35:13.you can own that in the future. On a scale of 1-10, ten being most
:35:13. > :35:15.
:35:15. > :35:19.likely, what is the chance of Nick and Dave returning? After 2015? As
:35:19. > :35:26.Allen has said, quite rightly, there is a very long way to go but I think
:35:26. > :35:29.it is quite likely. About seven or eight. But I think it is very
:35:29. > :35:37.dangerous. If, going into the election, there is too much of the
:35:37. > :35:40.stuff about bloodlines and there is some pre-negotiation. The electorate
:35:40. > :35:46.will not like that. They must go but down. They have to stand down on
:35:46. > :35:50.that. I would not have put the number as high as that but I am in
:35:50. > :35:55.no doubt that the number is rising. More likely than Conservative
:35:55. > :36:05.victory. If she is right, we will never mention that again! If she is
:36:05. > :36:10.
:36:10. > :36:16.wrong... You will be ridiculed! Like all BBC programmes, we spend our
:36:16. > :36:20.budget on focus groups. Alan Johnson is universally admired as a man from
:36:20. > :36:23.humble beginnings who rose to several great offices of state whose
:36:23. > :36:28.dignity, intellect, sheer likeability puts other politicians
:36:28. > :36:32.to shame. And Michael is the funny guy with the strange accent always
:36:32. > :36:37.talking to himself on a train. Does it matter what people think of us
:36:37. > :36:47.and what can we do to change people's perception. We have no
:36:47. > :36:57.
:36:57. > :37:02.idea. Attitude of the world 's fastest men drug tested positive,
:37:02. > :37:07.causing a shadow to fall over the anniversary of the London politics.
:37:07. > :37:12.This year 's outstanding ride by Chris Froome has forced him to
:37:12. > :37:16.confront the reputation of his sport has for breaking the rules. I can
:37:16. > :37:20.understand why people are asking this, given the history of the sport
:37:20. > :37:24.and they have been let down so many times before. I am also one of those
:37:24. > :37:29.people that has been let down, I also believed in people who have
:37:29. > :37:33.turned out to be cheats and liars. But I can assure you, I am not.
:37:33. > :37:37.Stuart Broad challenged crickets repetition as gentleman 's game.
:37:37. > :37:43.refused to leave his wicket after clearly being caught out. Unlike JK
:37:43. > :37:51.rolling, who has been caught out concealing her identity. And she was
:37:51. > :37:55.a true author of this book. Using an alias. How powerful can reputation
:37:55. > :38:00.be and how hard can it be to shake? Lynton Crosby's reputation certainly
:38:00. > :38:09.seems to be growing at Westminster and as the old saying goes, there is
:38:09. > :38:16.no cigarette smoke without fire. Uri Geller joins us. How much does your
:38:16. > :38:24.reputation matter? I created my repetition and I moulded it and I
:38:24. > :38:29.twisted it. Consciously? Absolutely, out of necessity. The
:38:29. > :38:35.best thing that could have happened to me was controversy. So, my
:38:35. > :38:40.reputation is shrouded with controversy. And that is great. As
:38:40. > :38:45.long as they talk about me and mention my name, Oscar Wilde said,
:38:45. > :38:48.there is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is not
:38:48. > :38:58.being talked about. Yes, but repetition is absolutely important.
:38:58. > :38:59.
:38:59. > :39:04.But when I read about JK, that is a great PR move. Think about that, it
:39:04. > :39:11.has been done 1 million times before. Full page in the Sunday
:39:11. > :39:17.Times! Exactly. In a superficial level, your reputation, which people
:39:17. > :39:24.will always remember as the man who then spins. But according to a new
:39:24. > :39:32.documentary, there is a lot more than that? That is true. Over 40
:39:32. > :39:37.years, I have read minds, stopped Big Ben. It was rather quirky and
:39:37. > :39:45.bizarre and unusual. I was never in the taken seriously. But, parallel
:39:45. > :39:49.to that, to that show business lifestyle and the entertainer, I did
:39:49. > :39:59.quite amazing things for many different intelligence agencies
:39:59. > :40:04.around the world. Including the CIA? Absolutely, an arm of the CIA
:40:04. > :40:09.got me out of Israel in 1972, to test my abilities and skills and
:40:09. > :40:16.might are normal powers to see whether they could be used for their
:40:16. > :40:21.purposes. How long did you do that? For a long time. And what amazed me
:40:21. > :40:31.in this documentary by the revelations that I did not even know
:40:31. > :40:33.
:40:33. > :40:36.about. The director, he is an Oscar winner, and I told him how I did it
:40:36. > :40:41.but he must have used his reputation, adding the Oscar, his
:40:41. > :40:48.charisma, his charm and personality, to get the information, to extract
:40:49. > :40:52.the information from these people. Here is a man with a reputation for
:40:52. > :40:57.ending spoons and being an intriguing character and doing
:40:57. > :41:02.things we cannot explain, and doing it with great style and energy, and
:41:02. > :41:10.it turns out that he has been working for the CIA? What does that
:41:10. > :41:17.do? What it will do, it will enhance the feeling or triggered the belief
:41:17. > :41:24.system in people that, hey, maybe Uri Geller does possess certain
:41:24. > :41:30.powers. Otherwise the CIA would not be bothering? Look at his answer
:41:30. > :41:35.about JK rolling, it is publicity! This is amazing. There is an entire
:41:35. > :41:41.reputation on top of the previous one. We are not heart of this border
:41:41. > :41:46.city! Alan, do you worry about your repetition? No, I did whenever I was
:41:46. > :41:49.a minister, it is difficult not to, you read about it every day.
:41:50. > :41:56.your reputation decides the repetition of the government so if
:41:56. > :42:00.you make a big problem, then... Allen has done a reputational clue,
:42:00. > :42:08.adding a book that reveals an entire side that most of us did not know
:42:08. > :42:12.about. I think, in a way, we are all added. What are these doing for your
:42:12. > :42:19.repetition? Making people think about me as a broadcaster, which is
:42:19. > :42:24.true. Which is what you want? It is what you are? It is nice when I meet
:42:24. > :42:30.people in the street and they say, you are the man who did the trains,
:42:30. > :42:36.not the man... That is what you wanted to do and it is hard to shake
:42:36. > :42:40.off any reputation as a Conservative minister? ! It takes a while. And
:42:40. > :42:47.one dissolves into the other. But I do believe that what really
:42:47. > :42:52.overpowers your reputation is your deep personality. If you are a nice
:42:53. > :43:02.person and charming, and you smile. And you are open to everyone and you
:43:03. > :43:04.
:43:04. > :43:13.sign autographed, that is all you need. So what is he going to do?He
:43:13. > :43:21.has got it. We are going to put your reputation on the line here. Kate's
:43:21. > :43:30.baby, boy or girl? I knew you would ask me. My wife is in the green
:43:30. > :43:40.room. Ask her. She is great at that. What do you think, Michael? Boyet.A
:43:40. > :43:43.
:43:43. > :43:46.boy. When is the documentary? This Sunday after Top Gear on BBC Two.
:43:47. > :43:52.That is your lot for tonight and for the summer because this was our
:43:52. > :43:55.final show of the series. Alan's Private Jet is ready to whisk him
:43:55. > :44:00.off. Michael's faithful manservant is ready to whisk him off to a
:44:00. > :44:05.pleasure Beach. The rest of us will be getting match fit for the next
:44:05. > :44:08.series, because sadly for everyone involved, we return in September, in
:44:08. > :44:13.time for the Lib Dem party conference. It does not get better
:44:13. > :44:19.than that dash the Lib Dem party conference, in Glasgow. Who needs
:44:19. > :44:23.the French Riviera. Tonight, we will leave you with a sticky and
:44:23. > :44:27.frustrated press pack waiting for Kate to deliver the good news story