:00:20. > :00:30.versus West? Writer and commentator Douglas Murray thinks only one power
:00:31. > :00:35.is prepared to fight it out. Vladimir Putin is determined to get
:00:36. > :00:37.his own way and there is no evidence of any Western leader willing to
:00:38. > :00:40.stop him. Back in the Westminster ring, the
:00:41. > :00:44.big TV fight is Farage versus Clegg, but is it a switch on or switch off?
:00:45. > :00:51.The Guardian's Nick Watt is getting into shape. Back home, the battle is
:00:52. > :00:55.hotting up, the nation awaits the gladiatorial contest on our
:00:56. > :00:58.television screen between Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage.
:00:59. > :01:02.And a battle in a South African courtroom as the Oscar Pistorious
:01:03. > :01:06.trial begins. Why are we so obsessed with scandal? Star of stage and
:01:07. > :01:16.screen Rupert Everett reveals all, we hope! It is a scandal you keeping
:01:17. > :01:21.me up so late. I can't even remember my own name.
:01:22. > :01:23.Pour yourself a glass of the blue stuff and get ready for a good old
:01:24. > :01:35.fashioned punch-up. Evenin' all. Welcome to This Week, a
:01:36. > :01:38.week when Steve McQueen's 12 Years A Slave won in Los Angeles and
:01:39. > :01:44.Vladimir Putin's "14 Years A Thug" won in Ukraine. The Putin
:01:45. > :01:46.production, part of a long-running Kremlin franchise, was especially
:01:47. > :01:52.popular in Crimea, though it could soon be a blockbuster in East
:01:53. > :01:58.Ukraine as well. It's certainly been a good week for Wee Mad Vlad. Back
:01:59. > :02:01.in the day, the KGB spent time and treasure turning those at the heart
:02:02. > :02:05.of the British establishment into Soviet spies, with depressing
:02:06. > :02:07.success. No need to bother now, not when senior national security
:02:08. > :02:11.advisers waltz into Downing Street, waving their top secret briefings
:02:12. > :02:18.for all to see. Philby, Burgess, McLean, eat your hearts out. Your
:02:19. > :02:20.sort are now redundant. The usual critics have complained that
:02:21. > :02:23.Britain's pathetic response to Russian aggression has been, well,
:02:24. > :02:26.pathetic, our only retaliation to date being a threat to ban the
:02:27. > :02:29.floozies of Russian oligarchs from shopping in Harrods, or taking tea
:02:30. > :02:37.at the Ritz, or pole dancing in Annabel's. But this underestimates
:02:38. > :02:41.how tough we've been. From the Siberian steppes to the palaces of
:02:42. > :02:44.St Petersburg you could hear the howls of anguish when it was
:02:45. > :02:51.announced Prince Edward would no longer be attending the Sochi
:02:52. > :02:54.Paralympics. Oh, yes. We know how to play hardball when we have to! Now
:02:55. > :02:57.HMS Wessex has been re-deployed, Mad Vlad must know his days are
:02:58. > :03:01.numbered. Speaking of those whom nobody would miss, even if they were
:03:02. > :03:04.your only friends in the Gulag Archipelago, I'm joined on the sofa
:03:05. > :03:08.tonight by two performers who would never defect. Think of them as the
:03:09. > :03:15.Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and Sussanah Reid of late night political chat. I
:03:16. > :03:17.speak, of course, of #sadmanonatrain, Michael Portillo,
:03:18. > :03:32.and back by absolutely no public demand whatsoever, #baffled Diane
:03:33. > :03:36.Abbott. Welcome to you both. Your moment of the week? The coalition
:03:37. > :03:39.got its knickers in a twist about publishing a report on immigration
:03:40. > :03:42.which showed the impact on employment was less than they
:03:43. > :03:47.thought it would be. But this made me reflect. The hope which the
:03:48. > :03:51.Conservative leadership has got itself onto. The week before we saw
:03:52. > :03:57.figures which showed net migration into the country was much higher. Up
:03:58. > :04:02.by 60,000, double the government's target. But the thing is, if you are
:04:03. > :04:06.in the European Union, you can't control migration. Having a target
:04:07. > :04:10.for migration is like saying, we pledge that it will not rain next
:04:11. > :04:14.February. You have no control over it. Also, with most of Europe doing
:04:15. > :04:18.rather badly in the euro and Britain doing rather well, you will have
:04:19. > :04:23.lots of immigrants coming over here. So it is a sign of economic
:04:24. > :04:26.success. So the government is condemned to go around looking
:04:27. > :04:31.grouchy about the fact that the economy is doing well. Also, you
:04:32. > :04:36.then play into the UKIP game, which is you say, lots of immigration,
:04:37. > :04:40.more immigration, very bad thing. UKIP will always trump you on that,
:04:41. > :04:44.because they are prepared to leave the European Union, which is the
:04:45. > :04:48.only way of stopping migration. The government ought to be saying, it is
:04:49. > :04:52.fantastic to have migrants, a sign of economic success, we need them,
:04:53. > :04:56.and we don't want to leave the European Union either, and that is
:04:57. > :05:05.the battle ground between us and UKIP. That would be different. Worth
:05:06. > :05:08.saying. Now, a really serious one. The announcement today by Theresa
:05:09. > :05:13.May about the undercover policing and spying on the Lawrences. The
:05:14. > :05:16.understanding is that they were spied on to get information to
:05:17. > :05:19.discredit them because the police were more interested in discrediting
:05:20. > :05:24.them than in finding out who killed their son. I would stress that at
:05:25. > :05:29.the beginning of the whole Stephen Lawrence death, I was quite close to
:05:30. > :05:34.the campaign. The Lawrences were a very ordinary family, not activists.
:05:35. > :05:37.They were more trusting of senior police than any of us would be in
:05:38. > :05:43.the same situation, so they feel particularly hurt. Doreen spoken
:05:44. > :05:47.House of Lords this afternoon, almost in tears, and went home
:05:48. > :05:52.shaking. They see it as a betrayal. I think we need to know who gave the
:05:53. > :05:58.instruction to spy on them. It was not local police. It would have been
:05:59. > :06:03.cleared up to Scotland Yard. Death by 1000 cuts for the police. It is a
:06:04. > :06:10.bit. First Andrew Mitchell and now the Lawrences. This is probably the
:06:11. > :06:14.biggest of the lot. Theresa May did look very upset by it.
:06:15. > :06:17.Now, what do William Hague and Vladimir Putin have in common, apart
:06:18. > :06:21.from speaking English in a funny accent? Well, they both practice the
:06:22. > :06:25.martial art of judo. True, Mr Hague used to find himself pinned to the
:06:26. > :06:28.floor by weedy Seb Coe, as opposed to one of Putin's black belt KGB
:06:29. > :06:31.killers. But the Foreign Secretary still claims he's up for a fight,
:06:32. > :06:35.describing the situation in Ukraine as "the biggest crisis in Europe in
:06:36. > :06:42.the 21st century" that "will require all our diplomatic efforts". So,
:06:43. > :06:45.with East and West ready to grapple over the future of Ukraine, we sent
:06:46. > :06:51.journalist and author Douglas Murray to the very judo club William and
:06:52. > :07:21.Seb used to practice in. This is his take of the week.
:07:22. > :07:28.Vladimir Putin has a black belt in judo. William Hague has a brown
:07:29. > :07:38.belt. No prizes for guessing who would win in a fight. But it is not
:07:39. > :07:43.the Russian president's physical strength that has been on display,
:07:44. > :07:46.but rather his will and ambition. In Putin, we see a leader apparently
:07:47. > :07:52.willing to do anything to restore what he sees as Russian influence.
:07:53. > :08:00.In Western leaders, we see grandstanding but little apparent
:08:01. > :08:04.desire to follow through. Yet, of course, the truth is that Britain
:08:05. > :08:07.isn't really in this fight but watching from the sidelines. We may
:08:08. > :08:11.have punched above our weight in Tony Blair's time, but the current
:08:12. > :08:16.government has further diminished Armed Forces, eroded our soft power
:08:17. > :08:20.and given up a moral foreign policy for something attracted more by
:08:21. > :08:24.commerce. The document photographed being carried into Downing Street
:08:25. > :08:27.this week said it all. The UK Government would not curtail the
:08:28. > :08:32.financial arrangements of Vladimir Putin's friends in London because we
:08:33. > :08:37.want their money. And the government is so incompetent it even let this
:08:38. > :08:40.fact be known to the public. This country risks becoming an
:08:41. > :08:44.irrelevance in the world. Liam Hague may have come to this judo club to
:08:45. > :08:53.train in the past, and nowadays it looks like it is all just talk. And
:08:54. > :08:58.often, it is not even that. Putin has survey and the world and decided
:08:59. > :09:01.there is nobody around to counter his steely ambition. He seeks a
:09:02. > :09:09.wider sphere of Russian influence and, uncontested, it looks like
:09:10. > :09:12.he'll get it. And from the Budokwai Martial Arts
:09:13. > :09:15.Club in Kensington to our own little martial arts club here in the heart
:09:16. > :09:24.of Westminster, Douglas Murray joins us now. Michael, you heard what
:09:25. > :09:28.Douglas had to say. Any tough sanctions against the Kremlin,
:09:29. > :09:32.economic ones, will hurt Europe as well, and we just don't have the
:09:33. > :09:37.stomach for it, do we? Absolutely, but I think we are looking down the
:09:38. > :09:41.wrong end of the telescope. Why comparison with the days of the
:09:42. > :09:45.Soviet Union, Russia has lost the Baltic states, the Eastern European
:09:46. > :09:50.states. It is now in a condition where even its closest satellite,
:09:51. > :09:54.Ukraine, most of it wants to attach to the European Union. It is having
:09:55. > :09:59.to invade what it regards as its own territory. It is entirely dependent
:10:00. > :10:03.on the price of oil, which is volatile. Its population is sinking.
:10:04. > :10:06.It is determined to hold onto the Ukraine because it faces Muslim
:10:07. > :10:12.rebellions and terrorism and wants retain some sort of balance within
:10:13. > :10:18.the Russian Empire. This is actually a country which is breaking up and
:10:19. > :10:23.going down the pan. Breaking up? It is adding territory all the time. It
:10:24. > :10:27.took two chunks of Georgia, it has taken the Crimea and the east of the
:10:28. > :10:34.Ukraine could be next. Your perspective is wrong. Your timetable
:10:35. > :10:37.is wrong. In the long-running may be falling apart but at the moment it
:10:38. > :10:43.is not. At the moment it is growing in size. And that is why it is
:10:44. > :10:49.acting desperately. He is having to invade territory which is
:10:50. > :10:53.fundamentally a satellite of Russia. Your leader took a tougher line than
:10:54. > :10:58.Mr Cameron. What did you make of that? You can be tough in
:10:59. > :11:04.opposition. I want to find out what Douglas wants to happen. Do you want
:11:05. > :11:09.us to send troops into the Ukraine? No. What do you want? Your party has
:11:10. > :11:15.done better than the Coalition Government over the case of Russia.
:11:16. > :11:20.Take the bill which the US passed, which prevents friends and allies of
:11:21. > :11:25.Vladimir Putin from being able to operate in America as freely as they
:11:26. > :11:30.do here. As it happens, when Labour was in power, they often raised,
:11:31. > :11:34.regularly raised human rights abuses, things like the Litvinenko
:11:35. > :11:40.case. In recent months, another case. The problem is that the
:11:41. > :11:44.Coalition Government does not raise these things. What do you want the
:11:45. > :11:50.government to do? To raise issues like this, like the case of friends
:11:51. > :11:54.and allies of Vladimir Putin who are able to operate in this country and
:11:55. > :12:02.not in America. About you except we cannot intervene? Right. You were
:12:03. > :12:07.rather mocking about limitations on visas and travel. I didn't mention
:12:08. > :12:14.them. You did. You said the girls can't shop in Harrods. There are
:12:15. > :12:17.300,000 Russians in London. If there were restrictions on visas and
:12:18. > :12:21.travel that would have some effect, because they rely on being able to
:12:22. > :12:28.move backwards and forwards in the UK has a stable country. Why would
:12:29. > :12:31.it have any effect on Mr Putin? Indirectly. As far as traders
:12:32. > :12:37.concerned, Europe does not want to move because Europe is Russia's
:12:38. > :12:41.biggest trading partner. I don't dispute that. The Germans are key to
:12:42. > :12:46.a European Union response and they are not up for it. They depend on
:12:47. > :12:51.Russian oil and gas. They export more to Russia than anybody else and
:12:52. > :12:55.they will not risk that. Absolutely. There will be no response of any
:12:56. > :12:59.consequence against Russia. That is obvious by what people are saying.
:13:00. > :13:03.When David Cameron talks about consequences, since that is so
:13:04. > :13:09.nonspecific and repeated on a daily basis, it is clear that it is
:13:10. > :13:14.meaningless. It is worth remembering that Vladimir Putin has seen David
:13:15. > :13:16.Cameron's pointlessness before. When Russia invaded Georgia, David
:13:17. > :13:21.Cameron, then Leader of the Opposition, seized the opportunity
:13:22. > :13:24.to go to Georgia and grandstand and say how he was on the side of the
:13:25. > :13:31.Georgian people, but this country did nothing. He knew this country
:13:32. > :13:34.would do nothing. I think the longer term perspective is important. The
:13:35. > :13:39.West has had the most amazing victory over the old soviet union
:13:40. > :13:43.and over Russia. Russia's sphere of influence has been massively
:13:44. > :13:47.reduced. Thank God it is not the threat it used to be. It is true
:13:48. > :13:52.that we are not able to control everything Russia does over its
:13:53. > :13:59.closest satellite. But the situation is transformed. I think, and it is
:14:00. > :14:04.not you I am getting at, Andrew, but William Hague, John Kerry, President
:14:05. > :14:07.Obama, David Cameron, who go around making this whole thing looked like
:14:08. > :14:10.the most momentous defeat, making themselves look impotent and making
:14:11. > :14:17.Putin look strong. Actually, the reality is that he is presiding over
:14:18. > :14:23.a collapsing state. We are where we are. He has Crimea and that will not
:14:24. > :14:29.go back. I think Crimea will vote to join Russia. What do we do if he
:14:30. > :14:36.moves in on the East Ukraine? There is almost nothing we can do. The
:14:37. > :14:39.United States has created a vacuum in foreign policy making, since the
:14:40. > :14:44.man that you both supported so strongly took over the presidency.
:14:45. > :14:51.It has absented itself from all foreign policy. In defence of David
:14:52. > :15:01.Cameron, he has tweeted a nice photo of him talking to Barack Obama on
:15:02. > :15:06.Twitter. The key in this is Germany and Angela Merkel's relationship
:15:07. > :15:13.with Russia. Now that she has a social democratic Foreign Minister,
:15:14. > :15:19.whose mentors is Gerhard Tremmel. , who is on the board of a subsidiary
:15:20. > :15:23.of Gazprom, the Germans call the shots and they have their own
:15:24. > :15:29.foreign policy on this. If we, it is all very well, but if we take
:15:30. > :15:33.sanctions against the oligarchs, friends of Putin, you can be sure he
:15:34. > :15:38.will start to take a chunk of the Volkswagen factory in Russia, which
:15:39. > :15:42.the Germans own, he will start to take BP oil fields. This man will
:15:43. > :15:45.retaliate. That is not to say we should not get into a fight, but
:15:46. > :15:52.let's not do it without realising what he will do.
:15:53. > :15:59.America paid some financial price, we would pay some financial price -
:16:00. > :16:02.Germany would pay a very high price. Last March, the last tanks from
:16:03. > :16:13.America left Europe. They have been in Europe for 69 years. Over
:16:14. > :16:16.President Obama's president presidency. This is the first time
:16:17. > :16:20.in people's life times this has been the case. Putin has noticed that.
:16:21. > :16:26.Putin has seized an opportunity as a result of actions like that. My
:16:27. > :16:31.aalso just say, there is a hole oweness to some of the western
:16:32. > :16:36.rhetoric. It's grand standing? More than that. We are meant to be
:16:37. > :16:39.shocked by the violation of Ukraine sovereignty not shocked by the
:16:40. > :16:47.sovereignty in Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan by the Est. We are meant
:16:48. > :16:48.to pretend that Ukraine is a democratic country. The
:16:49. > :16:53.democratically-elected President was ousted by a mob in Kiev. He is the
:16:54. > :16:57.man that the foreign ministers of France, Germany and Poland had
:16:58. > :17:01.decided should stay in office until December and there should be
:17:02. > :17:05.elections. When Putin says - wait a minute, this is not democratic, this
:17:06. > :17:08.is not a legitimate government, I'm afraid he has a bit of a point. The
:17:09. > :17:13.point is made for him by the foreign ministers who had contrived to keep
:17:14. > :17:19.Yanukovych there until December. Here's the problem. He has taken two
:17:20. > :17:23.chunks out of Georgia, they are now back with the Russians. He has taken
:17:24. > :17:27.the Crimea. That's now back with Russia. He could take the east
:17:28. > :17:31.Ukraine. He may take all of Ukraine at some stage. There is very little
:17:32. > :17:42.we can do about it. What do we do if he moves in on the Baltic States? I
:17:43. > :17:52.don't think has ambitions in the Baltic States. What do we do? We not
:17:53. > :17:56.sending troops there. In other words, for everybody it's a
:17:57. > :18:00.different sort of line. What we do is what America started to do today,
:18:01. > :18:07.to start to send planes, extra back up to our NATO allies in Poland and
:18:08. > :18:11.Baltic States, make them feel more secure than they may be feeling
:18:12. > :18:15.tonight. That is a good step in the right direction. We need to let them
:18:16. > :18:19.know and Mr Putin know they will be not be regarded as the same as
:18:20. > :18:23.Ukraine. He may feel he has influence. We may have to accept, we
:18:24. > :18:27.may have to regret, we may have to accept he feels he has that. It has
:18:28. > :18:32.to be clear where we think his influence undoubtedly ends. We will.
:18:33. > :18:38.Final point. Final point. The reason Putin has had to invade Ukraine is
:18:39. > :18:43.the same reason that the Soviets had to invade Hungary and checks
:18:44. > :18:50.Slovakia, it is because they were losing control of these places. This
:18:51. > :19:00.is a tifrp tomorrows -- symptoms of Russia losing control. We have to
:19:01. > :19:03.hope so. Now. It's late, and our stocks of Blue Nun are running low,
:19:04. > :19:07.so we need a little something to keep Diane awake and Michael up.
:19:08. > :19:10.Luckily for us, waiting in the wings, actor Rupert Everett is here
:19:11. > :19:13.to discuss our obsession with politics, sex and scandal. And
:19:14. > :19:16.remember, hard as it is for anyone at the BBC to believe, we're the
:19:17. > :19:20.number one trending show on British television. So keep up all your
:19:21. > :19:21.pathetic efforts on the Twitter, the Fleecebook and the good old
:19:22. > :19:32.missionary position Interweb. Now, before we go on, I want to say
:19:33. > :19:35.something from the heart. Just because I work for the BBC, and not
:19:36. > :19:40.Russia Today, doesn't mean I don't have editorial independence. Not all
:19:41. > :19:43.of us here are happy with the shoddy, immature and partisan way
:19:44. > :19:51.this programme covers politics and I think it's time I made a stand!.
:19:52. > :19:54.Hold on. What? You want me to go to the Crimea to be re-educated?! OK,
:19:55. > :19:58.time for more brilliant political analysis! Now, today a major new
:19:59. > :20:02.exhibition on the Vikings opened at the British Museum and they turn out
:20:03. > :20:05.to be not so nasty as we thought. Yeah, right. So we sent
:20:06. > :20:07.Westminster's God of Politics, Nick Watt, for our Thors-day
:20:08. > :20:31.roundup.Thors-day, see what I did there.? I'm quitting. I'm off.
:20:32. > :20:38.History hasn't been kind to us Vikings and us Thor God of Thunder
:20:39. > :20:44.that makes me really cross. Forget that talk about eating babies and
:20:45. > :20:49.wearing horned helmets, it turns out we Vikings were really quite
:20:50. > :20:57.charming after all. One ticket, please.
:20:58. > :21:07.Oh, look at my old ship. Isn't she just magnificent! It's amazing,
:21:08. > :21:12.after 1,000 years British leaders are still accusing us for foeshs --
:21:13. > :21:18.foreigners of taking your jobs. In my day all we cared about was
:21:19. > :21:23.settling down and farming, after torching the odd monastery, which is
:21:24. > :21:28.why we are absolutely delighted that Europe's greatest warrior, that is
:21:29. > :21:33.Nick Clegg, is on our side. UKIP leaders don't turn up to vote in the
:21:34. > :21:38.European parliament. Most of the time. Nigel Farage hasn't tabled a
:21:39. > :21:42.single amendment, not a single amendment to the flow of legislation
:21:43. > :21:55.passing through the European parliament since July 2009. Yes,
:21:56. > :21:59.Nick, over the hump, his mother is Dutch, is taking the fight to what
:22:00. > :22:05.he regards as the little Englanders in a typically Scandinavian way. No,
:22:06. > :22:11.not with axes, but in a civilised TV debate. Well, our Nigel was quick to
:22:12. > :22:15.hit back. Since 2009 I have taken part in 45% of votes in the European
:22:16. > :22:20.parliament. Mr Clegg, by contrast, who lives in London, has taken part
:22:21. > :22:25.in 22% of the votes in the House of Commons. I think it's a bit of a
:22:26. > :22:30.cheek. Not exactly Alfred the Great, is he? Yule kip is giving all the
:22:31. > :22:33.main parties the jitters ahead of the European elections. Downing
:22:34. > :22:38.Street found the table on its grid to publish a report which shows the
:22:39. > :22:44.impact of non-EU immigration on British jobs is not as severe as
:22:45. > :22:48.Theresa May once claimed. We have a full-scale coalition row as Vince
:22:49. > :22:56.Cable celebrates the role of immigrants and the ConservativeHome
:22:57. > :22:58.office, James Broken Shire blames a wealthy metropolitan elite for
:22:59. > :23:01.sustaining immigration. Vince Cable made a number of statements about
:23:02. > :23:05.immigration in the last week, and, to be frank, a lot of them were
:23:06. > :23:15.simply incorrect. # Baby, do you understand me now...
:23:16. > :23:19.# In my day, battle plans were not
:23:20. > :23:26.sbth exactly sophisticated, but at least we kept them secret. Nowadays,
:23:27. > :23:30.you lot, you just wave them around in public. That supposedly secret
:23:31. > :23:35.document showed that Britain is very keen to act jolly tough with the
:23:36. > :23:39.Russians whilst ensuring that the City of London is protected. Ed
:23:40. > :23:43.Miliband picked up on the apparent discrepent Sid in what turned out to
:23:44. > :23:47.be a sober session of Prime Minister's Questions. Perhaps it was
:23:48. > :23:52.the presence of David Cameron's wife, Sam Cam in the back of the
:23:53. > :23:55.chamber that cooled tempers. It's the combination of diplomacy,
:23:56. > :23:59.resolve in the international community and support for the
:24:00. > :24:02.Ukranian government and Ukranian self-determination that is the best
:24:03. > :24:05.hope for securing an end to this crisis in the pursuit of that goal I
:24:06. > :24:08.can assure the Prime Minister the Government will have our full
:24:09. > :24:13.support. I'm grateful for what he said this this mo. Just as we need
:24:14. > :24:17.to see tomorrow a voice of unity and clarity from the countries of the
:24:18. > :24:20.European Union, not always easy to get when there are 28 different
:24:21. > :24:24.nations around the table, it's also very welcome that there is such a
:24:25. > :24:33.clear and unified voice going out from this House.
:24:34. > :24:41.Britain's sensitivities over the city told a wider story about the
:24:42. > :24:46.EU's response. Lots of fierce words bye tiptoeing delicately to keep
:24:47. > :24:52.lines open to Russia. How civilised. I like it. We need to send a very
:24:53. > :24:57.clear message to the Russian government that what has happened is
:24:58. > :25:01.unacceptable and should have consequences and were further action
:25:02. > :25:04.to be taken that would be even more unacceptable and would require even
:25:05. > :25:09.more consequences. Back home, there was talk of brotherly disharmony,
:25:10. > :25:14.Britain's largest trade union, Unite, flexed its muscles by cutting
:25:15. > :25:19.its funding to the Labour Party by ?1.5 million. It was all meant to be
:25:20. > :25:21.in the spirit of Ed Miliband's reforms to Labour's links with the
:25:22. > :25:32.trade unions. Boris Johnson went out of his way to
:25:33. > :25:39.talk of his brotherly love for Dave and George after speculation that
:25:40. > :25:42.they are going to try and "checkmate" him by enticing him back
:25:43. > :25:48.to Westminster. It was all so much easier in my day. We just had blood
:25:49. > :25:54.feuds. What is happening between you and George Osborne? George and I
:25:55. > :25:59.have a very, very good working relationship and indeed old, old
:26:00. > :26:05.friendship. What we both want to do is get David Cameron re-elected.
:26:06. > :26:11.Boris Johnson, clearly the man is half Viking. It makes you want to
:26:12. > :26:20.relive the old days. Brandish my sword and have a lovely cup of tea.
:26:21. > :26:27.A very British sort of Viking there, Nick. Miranda welcome back, could to
:26:28. > :26:34.see you. Thank you. Should we be excited about a Clegg-Farage live TV
:26:35. > :26:38.debate will people be interested in Are you suggesting that a nation
:26:39. > :26:42.waits in fevered anticipation. I wasn't. I wish I had I will watch.
:26:43. > :26:47.If you are not watching, nobody will watch? Quite. I tell you what, I've
:26:48. > :26:50.not always thought that the tactics and strategy of the Lib Dems have
:26:51. > :26:56.been great in the last few months. It's a good move. It's a big gamble,
:26:57. > :27:01.a gamble worth taking. If you are the pro-European party, you are very
:27:02. > :27:04.low in the polls, you need to actually reassure your own
:27:05. > :27:08.supporters, and possibly try and get some people who do believe in
:27:09. > :27:13.Britain in the European Union being a good thing on your side, in a
:27:14. > :27:16.election where you might do very badly, you might as well come out
:27:17. > :27:21.fighting. I think deciding to challenge the people who would like
:27:22. > :27:25.to see Britain leave, to make their case, you know, in a sort of
:27:26. > :27:30.head-to-head is a really good idea actually. # OK. I'm quite looking
:27:31. > :27:35.forward to it. I can let you into a secret. I'm looking forward to it.
:27:36. > :27:41.Don't tell anybody. Who will it help or harm? I think it might do Nick
:27:42. > :27:44.Clegg some good. I mean, you know going back to what I was saying
:27:45. > :27:48.earlier. What you will have here is a real discussion between two people
:27:49. > :27:51.who disagree with each other and have alternative policies. If you
:27:52. > :27:54.had, for example, a Conservative against Nigel Farage, the
:27:55. > :27:59.Conservative would be saying - we dislike immigration as well as you,
:28:00. > :28:02.and we will be just as tough on it. Then they will be saying, we dislike
:28:03. > :28:07.the European Union almost as much as you, but not so much that we want to
:28:08. > :28:10.leave. It will be an absurd discussion. Clegg will be saying, we
:28:11. > :28:14.believe in high levels of immigration. We believe in being
:28:15. > :28:18.members of the European Union. That is quite interesting. Do Mr Miliband
:28:19. > :28:24.and Mr Cameron lose out by not being part of this? They don't lose out. I
:28:25. > :28:28.think both Nick Clegg and Nigel Farage actually might benefit. Nick
:28:29. > :28:33.benefits from differentiating himself from the Tories, which he is
:28:34. > :28:37.desperate to do. Nigel Farage is very winning personality in a good
:28:38. > :28:44.debater. It could work for him. Clegg is a good debater too, as
:28:45. > :28:51.appeared in the last election. I I agree. Will you be wearing a Nigel
:28:52. > :28:54.or Nick T-shirt I'm nearer to Nigel on the European Union than Nick. I'm
:28:55. > :29:00.nearer to Nick on immigration than Nigel. You wear two T-shirts? Well,
:29:01. > :29:05.I will be a balanced observer. Which is what brings me to this soa every
:29:06. > :29:11.week. I wondered what it was? It can't be the money! I very much
:29:12. > :29:16.think it is. What do you make of this argument over immigration? Is
:29:17. > :29:26.there a real argument here between the coalition parties? I had your
:29:27. > :29:29.colleague Oli Grender on the Daily Politics this morning, she couldn't
:29:30. > :29:35.tell me what the difference was on immigration, what is it? She is part
:29:36. > :29:40.of the government party and a parliamentarian. As I perceived the
:29:41. > :29:44.Lib Dem situation about immigration it's extremely different from the
:29:45. > :29:50.Conservatives - What would the policies be different? Vince Cable
:29:51. > :29:55.said, borrowing that phrase which offended so many people, intensely
:29:56. > :29:58.relaxed about immigration because it brings great economic benefits to
:29:59. > :30:02.the country. That is the heartfelt position of most Lib Dems. It Lib
:30:03. > :30:07.Dem policy not to have controls on immigration? No. They do want
:30:08. > :30:09.controls they want proper measurement of the immigration
:30:10. > :30:13.position. In terms of what is good for the country's economy, also
:30:14. > :30:18.because the leadership of the Lib Dems, particularly Nick Clegg, is
:30:19. > :30:21.heartfelt in its support for the European Union, how can you support
:30:22. > :30:26.the European Union and not support the free movement of people? It is a
:30:27. > :30:29.completely - it would be a contradictory position. I understand
:30:30. > :30:33.that, don't disagree with it either. I have to point out, measurement is
:30:34. > :30:38.not a policy. Measurement is mathematics. What is the policy?
:30:39. > :30:41.Inside the Government there are enormous genuine tensions on this
:30:42. > :30:47.issue. I know there have been a lot - Not just - No. The policy of both
:30:48. > :30:52.- There have been play fights in the coalition, not on - This one is not?
:30:53. > :30:56.It's a serious difference of opinion. The policy of both parties
:30:57. > :30:58.in the coalition it to be members of the European Union and to continue
:30:59. > :31:07.to be members of the European Union. Therefore, anything that either one
:31:08. > :31:14.of them says about immigration is so much hoey. End of subject. When it
:31:15. > :31:18.comes to Vince Cable, his first wife was from East Africa, when it comes
:31:19. > :31:22.to immigration and Vince Cable as a person, it's genuinely heartfelt.
:31:23. > :31:26.Some of it may be gameplaying with Vince it's heartfelt. It was Mr
:31:27. > :31:31.Clegg I was wondering. That is another thing. I can't speak for
:31:32. > :31:34.him. You can't? No? This is another thing why I think the Farage calling
:31:35. > :31:40.the Farage debate is a good move. Nick Clegg is a European. You know,
:31:41. > :31:43.he's half Dutch. Sure. This is actually something that he genuinely
:31:44. > :31:48.believes is a dangerous moment for this country. Mr Farage shouldn't be
:31:49. > :31:54.under estimated as a debater. It should be an interesting clash.
:31:55. > :32:03.Is there really a clash between Boris Johnson and George Osborne?
:32:04. > :32:09.Oh, yes. These things all was come back to people who knew each other
:32:10. > :32:20.well at school and university. I thought Michael Bosman voice had
:32:21. > :32:23.changed, but it is you! It all goes back to obscure happenings at
:32:24. > :32:31.university. It all goes back to Eton. I agree with that. Although it
:32:32. > :32:35.is sufficient in the here and now. George Osborne believes in the David
:32:36. > :32:40.Cameron government. The David Cameron government is a government
:32:41. > :32:44.that has taken many tough decisions and has done interesting reforms in
:32:45. > :32:49.schooling, welfare, the national health service, has sorted out the
:32:50. > :32:53.economic situation. If David Cameron falters at the next election, the
:32:54. > :32:58.prospect is that he will be replaced by Boris Johnson who has never taken
:32:59. > :33:03.a serious decision about anything. You don't like him, do you? Parking
:33:04. > :33:12.for a moment your visceral hatred of Boris Johnson Watt that is an
:33:13. > :33:17.exaggeration. Is George Osborne a serious candidate for leadership of
:33:18. > :33:21.the Conservative Party? He is a serious candidate in the sense that
:33:22. > :33:26.I think he would be a good leader. I rather doubt he will seriously be a
:33:27. > :33:29.candidate. But if you said to me, what would you feel about George
:33:30. > :33:35.leading the Conservative Party one day, I would say it is very
:33:36. > :33:39.interesting. If Nick Clegg does these debates with Nigel Farage and
:33:40. > :33:44.the Lib Dems still fail in the European elections, isn't it an even
:33:45. > :33:49.bigger problem for Nick Clegg West remarked what they know, going into
:33:50. > :33:52.the general election is that there are segments of the electorate who
:33:53. > :33:57.believe in Lib Dem type things. One of those things is Europe, so even
:33:58. > :34:04.if it doesn't work for this election, it might warm the cockles
:34:05. > :34:11.of hearts... You are a born optimist. As a Lib Dem, you have to
:34:12. > :34:14.be. It has haunted Mr Cameron ever since he was leader of the
:34:15. > :34:23.Opposition, but even more when he got into Downing Street, the sense
:34:24. > :34:27.that he is surrounded. We have seen it with the arrest of one of his
:34:28. > :34:31.aides in Downing Street. Not just that, the idea that out of the six
:34:32. > :34:36.people drafting the manifesto, five went to Eton and the other is the
:34:37. > :34:43.chap who went to Saint Pauls, where the fees are only ?30,000 a year.
:34:44. > :34:50.And it turns out that the AED two has been arrested is close friends
:34:51. > :34:54.with Mr Cameron's chief of staff. The man in question, I have known
:34:55. > :34:59.him since 1976 and he has been associated with the party four-year
:35:00. > :35:04.is. Everybody is a friend of his. But I agree with your basic point. I
:35:05. > :35:11.think it is ordered that that is the way the Prime Minister has wanted to
:35:12. > :35:14.operate, with his friends. You would feel that tactical considerations
:35:15. > :35:19.would want him to bring together a broader group of people. It is not
:35:20. > :35:23.just friends, but the notion of a gang of old Etonian is. The public
:35:24. > :35:31.can sense that and they do not like it. And they are all men. You are
:35:32. > :35:36.going to have blind spots. More than half the electorate are female. We
:35:37. > :35:39.have to move on. Thank you, Miranda. Now, you'll be interested in this,
:35:40. > :35:42.Diane. This week saw a scandalous first in British politics, when
:35:43. > :35:45.Michael Gove became the first ever Conservative Education Secretary to
:35:46. > :35:48.educate his child in the state system he runs. Apparently, Diane,
:35:49. > :35:55.according to Mrs Gove, the private sector is "let's face it, about
:35:56. > :35:58.snobbery. Of course the parents of private school children are paying
:35:59. > :36:02.for the best teachers and facilities. But let's be honest,
:36:03. > :36:08.they're also paying for their child to mix with the right kind of kids.
:36:09. > :36:15.Having a two-tiered education system inevitably helps polarise our
:36:16. > :36:22.society. That is why, as a parent, I want to support the state sector".
:36:23. > :36:26.Food for thought, don't you think, Diane. Anyway let's put scandal in
:36:27. > :36:51.this week's Spotlight. Political scandals are almost as old
:36:52. > :36:55.as politics itself and this week Downing Street faced another. A
:36:56. > :36:59.senior aide to the Prime Minister has been arrested but not charged on
:37:00. > :37:05.suspicion of accessing child abuse images. When I heard these
:37:06. > :37:11.allegations I was profoundly shocked, and I remain profoundly
:37:12. > :37:15.shocked today. Scandal is also out on the streets. Prostitution laws
:37:16. > :37:18.could be changed to shift criminal blame away from the women and on to
:37:19. > :37:24.shift criminal blame away from the women and onto the punters, but will
:37:25. > :37:27.the oldest scandalous? And accused of premeditated murder, the trial of
:37:28. > :37:33.former Paralympic champion Oscar Pistorius continued. The world
:37:34. > :37:38.watches the testimony on their TV screens. What about Newcastle United
:37:39. > :37:45.manager, Alan Pardew? He lost his head and was given an -- a hefty
:37:46. > :37:51.fine. A moment of passion or a scandalous example West Jamaat why
:37:52. > :37:54.are we so obsessed with scandal? It sells magazines and papers but is it
:37:55. > :38:02.because we enjoy seeing powerful people sweat? Rupert Everett joins
:38:03. > :38:05.us. Welcome. Let me ask you that question, will there come a time
:38:06. > :38:13.when prostitution is not regarded as a scandal? Is it happening? No, I
:38:14. > :38:18.think it is going in the other direction. Last week there was an
:38:19. > :38:22.all-party group that has advised that the client of the prostitute is
:38:23. > :38:27.criminalised. Criminalisation is still the name of the game. Maybe
:38:28. > :38:31.they have slightly moved the goalposts but criminalisation is
:38:32. > :38:37.still happening. I understand there is due to be more of a crackdown in
:38:38. > :38:41.Soho. I have been making a documentary for Channel 4 about
:38:42. > :38:44.prostitution. One of the sections we started to film was about the girls
:38:45. > :38:54.who work in the walk up flats in Soho. One night in December there
:38:55. > :39:04.was a three -strong police raid on 20 flats, using a law, which is a
:39:05. > :39:10.good law about incitement, control and coercion, laws to make sure that
:39:11. > :39:14.people are not coerced into sex. They took girls down in their
:39:15. > :39:17.underwear into the streets, with journalists and photographers. Some
:39:18. > :39:23.of these are mothers with children, working in secret. And none of them
:39:24. > :39:28.were coerced into prostitution. I followed them to court, to various
:39:29. > :39:32.courts. I went to Hammersmith. They gave evidence, these poor girls.
:39:33. > :39:40.They said, we are not being controlled. They were not part of
:39:41. > :39:45.people trafficking? Trafficking is complicated. In fact, trafficking is
:39:46. > :39:48.trafficking and prostitution is prostitution. Trafficking is slavery
:39:49. > :39:55.and we have laws for that. Post a Jewish and is another issue. There
:39:56. > :40:05.is a bridge with up to 9% of working prostitutes. -- prostitution is
:40:06. > :40:09.another issue. Would you like to see the whole business, both for the
:40:10. > :40:15.women, and the clients, decriminalised? If decriminalisation
:40:16. > :40:19.happened to prostitute, they could work in groups, which is much safer
:40:20. > :40:23.for them. They would be able to leave prostitution because they
:40:24. > :40:29.would not have criminal records. A caution amounts to a criminal
:40:30. > :40:32.record, so it is hard to leave prostitution if it is not
:40:33. > :40:35.decriminalised. At the moment, anything more than one girl working
:40:36. > :40:43.alone is a brothel, so would be closed down. It would be safer for
:40:44. > :40:47.them to work in groups. Oscar Wilde said that the native habitat of the
:40:48. > :40:52.hypocrite is England. The situation around this story is so
:40:53. > :40:55.hypocritical. We need to distinguish between street prostitutes and a
:40:56. > :41:00.different kind of prostitute operating out of a flat. The
:41:01. > :41:05.majority of street prostitutes, many of them have come out of care, they
:41:06. > :41:12.are beaten and kept on drugs by pimps. They are often trafficked
:41:13. > :41:15.girls. You cannot be sentimental about the position of street
:41:16. > :41:20.rostered shoots in places like the East End of London. I don't think
:41:21. > :41:28.you can be sentimental about the trade in general. But there are
:41:29. > :41:32.different sectors of the trade. He separated coercion from
:41:33. > :41:39.non-coercion. If they are being coerced... Personally, I think you
:41:40. > :41:47.should criminalise men who use prostitutes. I think you are insane.
:41:48. > :41:52.What planet are you on? I am in Hackney and I am thinking of the
:41:53. > :41:56.girls. One of the things the police used to do, you would get the curb
:41:57. > :42:01.crawlers who come and curb crawl to pick up street prostitutes. The
:42:02. > :42:07.police used to say, we picked you up in Stamford Hill. The men would open
:42:08. > :42:11.the letter in front of their wife and would be supremely embarrassed.
:42:12. > :42:18.Yes, you should criminalise men who use prostitutes. First of all, I
:42:19. > :42:23.agree that the street and the flat are different places. The street is
:42:24. > :42:29.the hardest place to work. Not just tough, but horrible, brutalising.
:42:30. > :42:34.But people who are working safely in flats are being pushed onto the
:42:35. > :42:39.street. Criminalising the punter is not only not helping the girls on
:42:40. > :42:42.the street, in fact it is not helping anybody, and certainly not
:42:43. > :42:49.those who are a little more secure and work in flats. They are being
:42:50. > :42:53.evicted, driven onto the streets. I was talking to some ladies from the
:42:54. > :42:56.co-operative of prostitutes. A couple of girls who used to be in
:42:57. > :43:02.flats have disappeared on the street now. I am with Rupert. I am
:43:03. > :43:09.sufficient of a free marketeer to believe that if there is a willing
:43:10. > :43:16.seller and buyer, it is not the job of the law to intervene. Willing. It
:43:17. > :43:22.is consensual sex. In the case that Rupert has cited, the testimony of
:43:23. > :43:26.the women was perfectly clear. We will admit there are coerced women,
:43:27. > :43:30.so you have to admit that there are those who are not coerced as well.
:43:31. > :43:36.It is extraordinary to say that it should be legal to sell a product
:43:37. > :43:42.but illegal to buy the same product. Where is the logic? The greater part
:43:43. > :43:48.of street prostitution is coerced girls, many of them underage. I
:43:49. > :43:53.would like to have your figures for that. Will the law change in a way
:43:54. > :43:59.you would like? No, I think it will change as in Sweden and in Spain
:44:00. > :44:06.come and about two in France, in the direction of criminalising the
:44:07. > :44:09.client. Quite right. In Sweden the police say it is a tremendous
:44:10. > :44:12.success, but the prostitutes say something different.
:44:13. > :44:16.That's your lot for tonight, folks. But not for us, because we're off to
:44:17. > :44:19.Accident Emergency to abuse their resources along with the rest of the
:44:20. > :44:22.population. Diane's ego is slightly bruised, and Michael always needs
:44:23. > :44:25.his stomach pumped. But we leave you tonight with our toe-curling Prime
:44:26. > :44:28.Minister, who tweeted an excruciating selfie last night,
:44:29. > :44:32.claiming to be on the phone to President Obama sorting out Ukraine.
:44:33. > :44:46.Nighty night. Please don't let David Brent bite.
:44:47. > :44:55.# She's broken down on freeway nine # I take a look and get her engine
:44:56. > :45:00.started # Free love on the free love Freeway
:45:01. > :45:06.# Lover is free and the freeway is long
:45:07. > :45:08.# I've got some hot lava on the hot love highway. #