:00:00. > :00:10.Tonight on This Week, as we roll out the oriental rug for the Chinese
:00:11. > :00:18.Premier, we're in the mood for a little bit of This Week fighting.
:00:19. > :00:21.Iraq asks America for airstrikes against advancing
:00:22. > :00:25.jihadis - former adviser to Tony Blair, John McTernan, tells us
:00:26. > :00:30.why his old boss is definitely not "unhinged" about Iraq.
:00:31. > :00:37.McTernan. Blair's right. Iraq needs all the help it can get in this
:00:38. > :00:44.fight. The Chinese leader took tea with
:00:45. > :00:47.the Queen and even kowtowed to But is the Labour leader more
:00:48. > :00:50."Kung Fu Panda" than successful Funky Guardian man Nic Watt is
:00:51. > :01:02.a little bit frightening. Ed, some call him Red, found himself
:01:03. > :01:03.under fire but he fought back with a series of tough policy
:01:04. > :01:07.announcements. The Chinese Premier relied
:01:08. > :01:09.on a translator to communicate, but must you be able to speak English to
:01:10. > :01:12.be considered "truly British"? Forget shirt watch,
:01:13. > :01:14.we have "jumper-watch" with Sarah Lund, otherwise known
:01:15. > :01:29.as Danish actor Sofie Grabol. Everybody was This Week Fighting.
:01:30. > :01:41.Those kicks were fast as lightning. Evenin' all, welcome to This Week,
:01:42. > :01:45.coming to you live from a channel High-brow home of hit TV shows such
:01:46. > :01:50.as Homes Under the Hammer, Flog It! Because, dear viewer, due to the
:01:51. > :01:57.huge national interest in tonight's crucial football match between, er,
:01:58. > :02:03.Japan and Greece - for days Britain has spoken of nothing else - and the
:02:04. > :02:08.total lack of national interest in a militant jihadist attempt to destroy
:02:09. > :02:11.the state of Iraq, redraw the boundaries of the
:02:12. > :02:15.Middle East, create a medieval Islamist caliphate then come gunning
:02:16. > :02:19.for us, we've been forced to leave our usual berth on BBC One
:02:20. > :02:25.and find any old port in a storm. One that even Old Paxo
:02:26. > :02:28.has now abandoned. Fortunately
:02:29. > :02:31.for us we've been granted the highly prestigious 'post-Newsnight' slot
:02:32. > :02:35.here on BBC Two, the berth of documentaries nobody wants to see,
:02:36. > :02:43.repeats and Conference Round Up. So we're praying that either
:02:44. > :02:45.of Newsnight's viewers - or maybe - bother to stay with us
:02:46. > :02:51.for the duration. Speaking of hugely important
:02:52. > :02:54.geopolitical events that always play second fiddle to 22 grown -men
:02:55. > :02:59.kicking a ball around a field, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by
:03:00. > :03:03.two people whose commentary always captures the excitement and energy
:03:04. > :03:07.of important global events. Think of them as the Trevor Nelson
:03:08. > :03:10.and Phil Neville I speak of course of #baffled
:03:11. > :03:15.Diane Abbott. And #sadmanonatrain Michael
:03:16. > :03:38."just been knocked out of the World England hasn't yet but it is hanging
:03:39. > :03:49.on by its finger tails My topic of the week is the Spanish monarchy.
:03:50. > :03:52.They are having to invent these things as they go. They don't have
:03:53. > :03:57.the long-term stability that we have. Secondly, to recall that
:03:58. > :04:01.because Spain uses in its democracy the list system of proportional
:04:02. > :04:06.representation, they don't have the same democracy that we do. I'm so
:04:07. > :04:11.sorry that our democracy's been polluted by list systems which are
:04:12. > :04:15.now in use in Scotland and the European elections, which are
:04:16. > :04:20.nondemocratic and antidemocratic. And one of the reasons the King has
:04:21. > :04:24.had to abdicate is he was caught elephant hunting and carrying on the
:04:25. > :04:29.high life at a time when Spain had within ruined by going into the
:04:30. > :04:32.euro. The economy there has been devastated, like so many European
:04:33. > :04:36.economies. It is worth remembering that we in this country, although
:04:37. > :04:40.we've had a rough time, we haven't been devastated by being in the
:04:41. > :04:45.euro. He's on a roll tonight. I thought he would never stop! So did
:04:46. > :04:49.I. I thought I was going to have to rugby tackle him to the ground. Die
:04:50. > :04:54.afternoon, your short moment of the week. It is always short to hear him
:04:55. > :04:57.talking about Spain. Actually it was listening to President Obama's
:04:58. > :05:04.statement about reactionier this evening. I was relieved because he
:05:05. > :05:10.resisted the pressure from crazy Republicans to put American boots
:05:11. > :05:15.back on the ground in Iraq. President Obama is so brave to say
:05:16. > :05:17.that he won't. We are going on to talk about that. Have you forgot on
:05:18. > :05:26.the take your medication tonight? When I say 'Portillo',
:05:27. > :05:29.you say 'train'. When I say 'Abbott',
:05:30. > :05:31.you say 'baffled'. And when I say Blair,
:05:32. > :05:33.everyone says 'Iraq'. Such is the toxicity
:05:34. > :05:35.of the 2003 invasion that, more than 10 years on - in this country
:05:36. > :05:39.at least - we still view events in the Middle East through the prism
:05:40. > :05:41.of the former Prime Minister. So, as the Iraqi Government calls
:05:42. > :05:44.for American airstrikes against advancing jihadist militants,
:05:45. > :05:47.will the West - should the West - be drawn back into a conflict we
:05:48. > :05:49.thought we'd left behind? We turned to Tony Blair's former
:05:50. > :06:21.Director of Political Operations, You probably think you know exactly
:06:22. > :06:25.how history will treat Tony Blair and his actions in Iraq. I'm Leary
:06:26. > :06:31.to item you you are completely wrong. The truth is we were right to
:06:32. > :06:38.go into Iraq and we left too early. We left for our own selfish
:06:39. > :06:45.political reasons. And now in Iraq's greatest need, it would be wrong for
:06:46. > :06:50.us to leave Iraq on its own. Supporting the Middle East's only
:06:51. > :06:55.other functioning democracy after Israel remains great moral cause it
:06:56. > :07:01.was when I worked for Tony Blair when I worked for the Prime Minister
:07:02. > :07:05.of Baghdad. It is an appalling reflection on the House of Commons
:07:06. > :07:09.that many MPs who voted for the Iraq war are shirking their
:07:10. > :07:24.responsibility now. Unlike Tony Blair our current leaders have no
:07:25. > :07:27.idea what to do. People say that everything that's wrong with Iraq is
:07:28. > :07:33.the fault of Blair and bush. They say there was no Al-Qaeda in Iraq
:07:34. > :07:38.before 2003. Let's be clear what that actually. Is it is the kind of
:07:39. > :07:44.bloodless amoral pragmatic foreign policy speak worthy of a Henry
:07:45. > :07:49.Kissinger. They are really saying Saddam Hussein may have been a
:07:50. > :08:02.genocidal fascist dictator but at least he kept the Iranians and the
:08:03. > :08:06.jihadists at bay. If we don't act now, we'll surely act later. We have
:08:07. > :08:11.to go back to Iraq to defend democracy. After all, as Margaret
:08:12. > :08:22.Thatcher said at the time of the Falklands crisis, why else do we
:08:23. > :08:28.have Armed Forces? And from the Imperial War Museum in Southwark to
:08:29. > :08:34.our own war museum in the heart of Westminster. John McTernan, welcome.
:08:35. > :08:37.So what exactly should we do? We shall initially be giving strong
:08:38. > :08:46.moral support for the Kurds and the Iraqis. We do not want to see
:08:47. > :08:50.dislodged a democracy fully supported since 2003. All of which
:08:51. > :08:55.people turned out in greater numbers and people risked their lives to go
:08:56. > :09:00.to vote. That's not a policy, that's a series of opinions. But we have to
:09:01. > :09:04.be clear, the UK, the US, the European Union, that we do not want
:09:05. > :09:09.to see the democracy fall and we have to give the support. What shall
:09:10. > :09:14.we do? We were in the situation where with America we are able to
:09:15. > :09:17.offer logistical support, humanitarian support, support
:09:18. > :09:22.through intelligence and we can offer, we could use drones if we
:09:23. > :09:30.chose to take out the leadership of ISIS and have notify zones. What's
:09:31. > :09:35.the point of a no-fly zones for a bunch of terrorists that don't have
:09:36. > :09:41.planes We do fly over them and bomb them. ISIS don't have any planes.
:09:42. > :09:47.There's a range of military options we could have. You think British
:09:48. > :09:51.jets should be flying over Iraq? I think Britain should be prepared to
:09:52. > :09:55.do anything they can to stop terrorists taking over a democratic
:09:56. > :10:03.state in Iraq. What do you say to that? It's a touching display of
:10:04. > :10:11.loyalty. To whom? For Tony Blair from his former aide. It is not we
:10:12. > :10:14.going into Iraq, but other people's sons and daughters. Your argument is
:10:15. > :10:18.that we should have gone into Iraq to change the regime. I was in
:10:19. > :10:22.Parliament at the time and the one thing Parliament wasn't prepared to
:10:23. > :10:29.do was to vote to go to war to change the regime. I know it's a
:10:30. > :10:36.minor matter to a Blair acolyte but we still live in a democracy. What
:10:37. > :10:41.are you laughing at? Never mind. John McTernan, what's the answer to
:10:42. > :10:45.that? The change of regime was as a consequence of Saddam Hussein
:10:46. > :10:51.failing to implement United Nations reduces. You don't understand what I
:10:52. > :10:57.am saying. You can talk over me if you like! Tony Blair made a point of
:10:58. > :11:01.insisting that we weren't going in for regime change. He knew that was
:11:02. > :11:06.illegal and the House wasn't vote for it. It is not you and Tony Blair
:11:07. > :11:11.who sends poem's sons to war. They couldn't get a majority in
:11:12. > :11:15.Parliament,s that correct? I said we should go to Iraq to defend
:11:16. > :11:22.democracy, not defend a regime change. There's a regime change
:11:23. > :11:26.there. If Diane is happy to see terrorists overturn the regime
:11:27. > :11:30.there... There are far more terrorist there is than there were
:11:31. > :11:37.at the beginning. Isn't one of the ironies of the situation that we
:11:38. > :11:41.into Iraq because it was supposed to be an existential threat to us. It
:11:42. > :11:45.is now choc-a-block with terrorist and we are unable to go in because
:11:46. > :11:51.of what happened before. And tests so violent even Al-Qaeda has
:11:52. > :11:55.rejected them. The answer to that is that the terrorism occurred and
:11:56. > :12:00.ISIS's growth is post 2011, after the UK and the US left. It was not
:12:01. > :12:05.right to leave that country. It was too early. This is all academic
:12:06. > :12:10.isn't it? It's quite clear from tonight that Mr Obama is going to do
:12:11. > :12:15.everything it takes to avoid any major intervention. If the Americans
:12:16. > :12:21.aren't going to go in this any major way, no-one's going in this any
:12:22. > :12:25.major way, except Iran. I agree with you that's academic, but to be fair
:12:26. > :12:28.to our guest, I think there is a perfectly good case for bombing the
:12:29. > :12:32.hell out of these terrorists, because they are very dangerous
:12:33. > :12:36.people as David Cameron said the other day, this isn't some distance
:12:37. > :12:40.place about which we don't care, this is a place seething with
:12:41. > :12:44.terrorists who are likely to attack Britain. The point they didn't
:12:45. > :12:51.address is whether bombing the people back to the Middle Ages...
:12:52. > :12:56.But they are in the Middle Ages anyway. All the evidence suggests
:12:57. > :13:01.that so far we've made our less safe. Whatever we may think about
:13:02. > :13:06.defending democracy isn't an offer. What is now on offer is that we
:13:07. > :13:11.fight on behalf of a Shia regime in Baghdad which is a client state of
:13:12. > :13:16.the regime in Iran against a whole lot of Sunnis who've been
:13:17. > :13:22.dispossessed by the Shias. Let John McTernan answer. The Government
:13:23. > :13:26.hasn't yet been formed following the most recent general election, and
:13:27. > :13:30.Nouri Al-Maliki, his support weakened fourth in this general
:13:31. > :13:36.election than the one before The key in Iraq has always been and is today
:13:37. > :13:41.the Kurds. They demonstrate that you can have a nonsectarian part of
:13:42. > :13:46.reaction defended safely by their own security. The Kurds are part of
:13:47. > :13:51.Iraq. But they are going their own way. The Kurds are simply securing
:13:52. > :13:55.the defence of the Kurdish autonomous region. That's what you
:13:56. > :14:01.would expect them to do. If they were more like the peshmerga, you
:14:02. > :14:17.wouldn't have them running away in Mosul. You seem to be glossing over
:14:18. > :14:20.that. You don't have to have Sunni Shia conflict that's Civil War, or a
:14:21. > :14:25.sectarian Government. You can have the European Union, the UK and the
:14:26. > :14:30.US have responsibility here to be pressuring Malaki to be forming a
:14:31. > :14:42.grander coalition. He's not going to. Supposedly the American position
:14:43. > :14:46.is that help is available but only if Al-Malaki reforms. So is that
:14:47. > :14:51.your position, because if it is, what you are really saying is, you
:14:52. > :14:59.are not going to do anything. Obama is stalling for time. He
:15:00. > :15:05.knowsal-Malaki won't do a deal, so is that your position? I think there
:15:06. > :15:10.is a huge possibility potential for this conflict to change the balance
:15:11. > :15:15.of power in the region. I don't think it's in ours or America's
:15:16. > :15:19.interests... Is it yours and Blair's position that we should bomb now
:15:20. > :15:25.before Malaki's done a deal or is it Obama's position that we should wait
:15:26. > :15:29.until Malaki does it now, which he'll never do. My position is my
:15:30. > :15:39.position, I don't control the UK. But your position on this? Is that
:15:40. > :15:49.we all in Britain, Europe require ISIS to be defeated. Sorry, before
:15:50. > :15:54.you deal with Malaki bomb them now? You can't make it conditional. Let
:15:55. > :15:59.me come back to the broader picture, Diane. We went into Iraq, it's a
:16:00. > :16:03.shambles. We didn't go into Syria, it's a shambles. What are the
:16:04. > :16:07.lessons to be learned? It's a shambles either way and maybe it has
:16:08. > :16:12.to be resolved by the people and the regional powers there? Actually,
:16:13. > :16:19.that's what Obama was saying this evening. The lesson to be learn
:16:20. > :16:28.suicide this kind of interventionists from outside, can't
:16:29. > :16:33.be resolved from the Ottoman Empire. We cannot resolve this from outside.
:16:34. > :16:38.Why is it rub snish For 20 years we have protected the Kurdish
:16:39. > :16:43.autonomous region for 20 years. Clearly, it's possible for us to
:16:44. > :16:52.protect and grow a stable democracy. Possible to protect the Kurds but
:16:53. > :16:56.not possible to go from outside into a Sunni Shia Civil War. Your
:16:57. > :16:59.question invites a reflection on the point made in the film that we were
:17:00. > :17:07.right to get rid of Saddam Hussein because he was a murderous person,
:17:08. > :17:11.even though he was a balancing power against Iran and controlled the
:17:12. > :17:14.Al-Qaeda within Iraq. I'm afraid my position is that the Prime Minister
:17:15. > :17:21.of Britain and the Foreign Secretary of Britain should be responsible for
:17:22. > :17:24.and responsive to British interest and it was undoubtedly in British
:17:25. > :17:28.interest that Saddam controlled Al-Qaeda in Iraq and that Iraq be
:17:29. > :17:33.balanced against Iran. Since that has been removed, there is no doubt
:17:34. > :17:38.that that's been against British interests. Tony Blair had the policy
:17:39. > :17:42.of supporting Gaddafi in Libya, recognising that he, another
:17:43. > :17:48.murderous horror, was actually a ball Wark against terrorism. He has
:17:49. > :17:54.inconsistent... We are running out of time. I want to fin Nishing on
:17:55. > :17:58.this point. You look at the White House's reluctance to do very much,
:17:59. > :18:04.the Kurds are going their own way in the north and the Iranians are
:18:05. > :18:08.moving in to the Shia part of Iraq. Day facto the country is
:18:09. > :18:12.partitioned? I don't believe that will be the end consequence of this
:18:13. > :18:18.and I don't believe that is the final act in this. We have a
:18:19. > :18:21.strategic interest in the Middle East of growing stable democracies
:18:22. > :18:27.and you can share your head all you can, Diane. It's a cliche. It's not
:18:28. > :18:33.a cliche. It's not Mr Obama's objective? He rejected that in his
:18:34. > :18:37.UN speech 679 The cowardice of Cameron and Obama has nothing to do
:18:38. > :18:43.with me. The cowardice? Complete cowardice. Anyway, we have grown
:18:44. > :18:50.democracy successfully in Europe through the 70s and 80s, defeating
:18:51. > :18:54.communism. We have to have defeat Jihadism and Islamism and help the
:18:55. > :18:58.democracy there is in Iraq, there in Israel, have one in Palestine, help
:18:59. > :19:04.them grow in Egypt and do something that doesn't mean there's a bigger
:19:05. > :19:09.and bigger mess. This will draw us into this in sort point of another.
:19:10. > :19:15.It's late, like a trapped German potholer, we are dragging things out
:19:16. > :19:20.for a happy ending. Hang on in there, because waiting in the wings
:19:21. > :19:24.from The Killing, Sophie is here to talk fluently and without subtitles
:19:25. > :19:28.about speaking English. For those who're not even on nodding terms
:19:29. > :19:32.with the mother tongue, don't forget you can display your liberty
:19:33. > :19:38.vocabulary on the Twitter, Fleecebook and interweb.
:19:39. > :19:42.The poor Chinese premier after filling out all the tedious visa
:19:43. > :19:46.forms finally arrived in Great Britain this week for a special
:19:47. > :19:53.visit. With a bulging fanny pack of Chinese
:19:54. > :19:59.Yuen. He feel ready to pick up some assets for the communist Phoebes
:20:00. > :20:03.back home. What did he get his chums? A T-shirt that said "my
:20:04. > :20:10.premier went to London, all he got me was a lousy stake in HS2". You
:20:11. > :20:15.can understand the disappointment. The round-up of the my Al week. No
:20:16. > :20:26.journalists were armed in the making of this film -- the round-up of the
:20:27. > :20:35.mittical week. -- political week.
:20:36. > :20:46.A carpet of the finest communist red was rolled out this week for the
:20:47. > :20:53.Chinese premier. Even the Queen dusted off the finest bone heroin
:20:54. > :20:57.for his wife at Windsor Castle. The premier of the people's Republic
:20:58. > :21:09.of China, your Majesty... The Chinese could soon be building
:21:10. > :21:14.and running our civil near power plants. In return, we gave the
:21:15. > :21:19.Chinese premier a box DVD Dickens set and a signed script of Downton
:21:20. > :21:26.Abbey. Apparently, there's something about the hierarchical nature of the
:21:27. > :21:32.British aristocracy that appeals to the communists. We have more Chinese
:21:33. > :21:37.investment into the UK in the last 18 months than in the whole of the
:21:38. > :21:41.last 30 years combined. TRANSLATION: China is continuously
:21:42. > :21:46.pushing forward on human rites, in close dialogue with if UK and other
:21:47. > :21:52.countries. -- the UK. In many ways, we can learn a lot from each other,
:21:53. > :22:00.even as we follow our own paths. To ensure it pours into Britain, we are
:22:01. > :22:06.maybing it easy for Chinese visitors to apply for visas.
:22:07. > :22:12.We had high end hand bags in Paris sold in higher numbers. Hopefully
:22:13. > :22:16.the Chinese travellers applying for visas will have a better time than
:22:17. > :22:21.the poor old Brits hoping for a passport. Would you like to
:22:22. > :22:26.apologise? I absolutely recognise the anger and distress that some
:22:27. > :22:31.people have suffered and I would like to put on record yes, that in
:22:32. > :22:38.every case where we have not met our service standards and not met the US
:22:39. > :22:48.mayors' needs, yes, we are sorry for that. So we take that as an apology
:22:49. > :22:53.1234 It is an apology. Excellent. Days after Michael Gove was strong
:22:54. > :22:59.armed into saying he liked Theresa May, one of the closest allies
:23:00. > :23:03.poured out his bile over just about everybody in Downing Street.
:23:04. > :23:07.Fighting talk was from Dominic Cummings, the revolutionary brain
:23:08. > :23:13.behind the free schools programme. He laid into David Cameron for
:23:14. > :23:20.having no priorities, focus or grip. He laid into the Prime Minister's
:23:21. > :23:25.Chief of Staff as a third rate sucker, sycophant, presiding over
:23:26. > :23:28.the shambolic court and the Prime Minister's director of
:23:29. > :23:33.communications is just clueless. Ouch. The Prime Minister hit back
:23:34. > :23:38.and described Cummings as a career psychopath. Michael Gove played all
:23:39. > :23:45.innocent and said it had nothing to do with him.
:23:46. > :23:50.Internal Whitehall squabbles all seemed trivial as the march of the
:23:51. > :23:53.Sunni insurgent forces from the ISIS group towards Baghdad threatened the
:23:54. > :23:58.partition of Iraq. The Iraqi Government pleaded with
:23:59. > :24:01.the US to launch airstrikes on the Sunni insurgent forces, placing
:24:02. > :24:05.Washington on the same side as Iran, a development the Foreign Secretary
:24:06. > :24:10.was keen to encourage as he announced the re-opening of the
:24:11. > :24:15.British Embassy in Tehran. It's an important step forward in
:24:16. > :24:19.our bilateral relations with Iran in addition to discussing our
:24:20. > :24:25.interests. We'll continue to press Iran to reach a deal with us and
:24:26. > :24:29.other nations of the E 3 plus 3 on its nuclear programme and to promote
:24:30. > :24:32.stability by ending its support for sectarian groups.
:24:33. > :24:36.The success of the Sunni insurgents and the threat that they could pose
:24:37. > :24:40.to the UK meant that Prime Minister's Questions was a rather
:24:41. > :24:45.sombre affair as Ed Miliband asked about the future of Iraq. It's
:24:46. > :24:50.deprived David Cameron of his chance to taunt Ed Miliband about THAT
:24:51. > :24:54.picture with The Sun. The cut and thrust of domestic
:24:55. > :24:58.politics soon returned as the Labour Leader announced plans to replace
:24:59. > :25:02.out of work benefits for 18-21-year-olds with a less
:25:03. > :25:09.expensive means tested payment linked to training.
:25:10. > :25:14.We should abolish the 16-hour limit on training that has for decades
:25:15. > :25:17.held young people back. And to pay for the changes in tough times we
:25:18. > :25:20.should say young people will be entitled to financial support only
:25:21. > :25:25.if they really need it. ? Labour regards the announcement as
:25:26. > :25:29.a defining moment as Ed Miliband fights the chance that he needs the
:25:30. > :25:34.welfare party. Miliband wants to show he understands the challenge
:25:35. > :25:38.identified by the IPPR director Nick Pearce that Governments can no
:25:39. > :25:42.longer spend their way to greater equality. But there was some
:25:43. > :25:45.uncomfortable opinion polls with one showing that the Labour Party would
:25:46. > :25:51.be better off with David Miliband in charge. Luckily, there was some
:25:52. > :25:55.comraderie advice at hand. What Ed is trying to do is approach politics
:25:56. > :25:58.in a rather different way from the way in which Tony Blair and New
:25:59. > :26:04.Labour approached it. Do you think it's working? It may well work and
:26:05. > :26:09.be successful. The preelection politics of the summer is final hi
:26:10. > :26:16.taking shape. -- finally taking shape. Labour
:26:17. > :26:20.frontbenches believe Ed Miliband is hampered by fundamental flaws while
:26:21. > :26:23.George Osborne, the man booed at the Olympic Stadium, finally seems to be
:26:24. > :26:30.benefitting from the economic upturn.
:26:31. > :26:34.Still fighting his way out. Miranda's with us. Welcome back.
:26:35. > :26:39.Diane, is Ed Miliband right to say that young people who refuse to take
:26:40. > :26:45.training courses should lose their welfare payments? Depends what he's
:26:46. > :26:50.trying to do. If he's trying to show that we can be tough on benefits,
:26:51. > :26:55.pragmatically it's right. Whether cutting household income of some of
:26:56. > :27:01.the poorest families will encourage some to go back to work remains to
:27:02. > :27:06.be seen. Is he right or wrong? I gave you an obscure political
:27:07. > :27:10.answer. I'm aware of that. I listen to politicians giving me these sorts
:27:11. > :27:17.of answers. I'm going to get nowhere there then. What's the mood like on
:27:18. > :27:21.the Labour backbenches? Well... If I'm honest, it's... Don't say that.
:27:22. > :27:30.There is a feeling that it would be more comfortable to be further ahead
:27:31. > :27:35.than we are now because some of us can remember being ahead of Kinnock.
:27:36. > :27:40.Is your leader accident prone? Not particularly. He comes under
:27:41. > :27:44.scrutiny of 24-hour media. Would you not expect him to be if he poses
:27:45. > :27:50.with The Sun newspaper give Whant he said about Rupert Murdoch? Well, I
:27:51. > :27:56.have to say that I think we got the worst of it. He shouldn't have posed
:27:57. > :28:03.but then he apologised which made it all worse. Why would it not dawn on
:28:04. > :28:09.him that posing with The Sun newspaper was a political threat to
:28:10. > :28:14.him? You are asking me, Andrew! Back en. Bench Labour MPs have been
:28:15. > :28:21.saying that all week. The man who stood up to Murdoch, holds his
:28:22. > :28:28.biggest-selling newspaper. Except in Liverpool where it doesn't sell a
:28:29. > :28:32.single copy. A Labour heartland. Is it because he's, in his own way, out
:28:33. > :28:38.of touch with ordinary people, as Mr Cameron is? I wouldn't say that. I
:28:39. > :28:42.think he's got people around him. Alan Johnson often sits there and
:28:43. > :28:47.says Ed needs to overcome his geek image? I think that Ed has too many
:28:48. > :28:51.people around him that don't have too much of a feel for how the
:28:52. > :28:57.public thinks. Including him himself? People like Tim. He still
:28:58. > :29:00.works for the Archbishop of Canterbury, which is a type of
:29:01. > :29:09.politics but not Labour politics. Very well. Michael,Chinese leader
:29:10. > :29:16.comes, he comes to Britain. It is no longer a matter of controversy;
:29:17. > :29:20.there used to be demonstrations, but now China's economically important
:29:21. > :29:24.to us, it's money that matters now? There used to be the demonstrations
:29:25. > :29:29.and the police used to put lots of vans in front of the demonstrators
:29:30. > :29:33.sothat when the premier came, he wouldn't be troubled by the
:29:34. > :29:36.demonstrators and wouldn't have to know that people hated his human
:29:37. > :29:42.rights record. It's amazing, when you go to China, you go to Tiananmen
:29:43. > :29:49.Square and there is a huge picture and when you pick up your Yuen, the
:29:50. > :29:53.currency, there on the bank notes he is there and he is probably the
:29:54. > :30:01.greatest mass murderer of the 20th century. Bigger than Stalin. Who is
:30:02. > :30:09.not on Russian bank notes? Who makes it look like a picnic. If you found
:30:10. > :30:14.Adolf Hitler's poster on the ban denburg gate, or if you found that
:30:15. > :30:18.your coins had Hitler on them, you would be appalled, yet you are
:30:19. > :30:21.supposed to accept them. China is making huge investments in Africa
:30:22. > :30:34.and the Third World. We have to watch that. Your leader was bundled
:30:35. > :30:38.out of the room wasn't he? Metaphorically. Somebody has to
:30:39. > :30:42.raise it, but it is quite recent I would say for the Government to have
:30:43. > :30:48.a Deputy Prime Minister of a different party say it. Because then
:30:49. > :30:53.it's not the Prime Minister and it's not the Foreign Secretary. I think
:30:54. > :30:58.worry you're absolutely right, we'll be discussing human rights for as
:30:59. > :31:01.long as we, let's hope, have an active business relationship with
:31:02. > :31:06.China. But China is such a phenomenon and we don't know how to
:31:07. > :31:12.react to it, because it challenges all out of values. What did you make
:31:13. > :31:17.of Dominic Cummings, part of the Michael Gove team, no longer now. He
:31:18. > :31:22.described the Prime Minister as, quote, bumbling. What did you make
:31:23. > :31:27.of that? It is extraordinary that Michael Gove, if he is as loyal to
:31:28. > :31:30.Michael Gove as he seems, that Michael Gove can't stop him making
:31:31. > :31:34.these attacks on the Prime Minister himself. I think this idea of
:31:35. > :31:40.Michael Gove, I think Michael Gove is utterly sincere in his desire to
:31:41. > :31:43.promote social mobility but some of the ways he's antagonised the whole
:31:44. > :31:49.of the educational world are coming back to bite him. I think having
:31:50. > :31:56.Dominic Cummings, this uncontrolled figure, spitting out bile is not...
:31:57. > :32:01.This is like Vince Cable and Lord Oakeshott. You say he is
:32:02. > :32:11.uncontrolled but I find it hard to believe that Michael Gove isn't
:32:12. > :32:26.aware he is saying these things. He also fired Ed Llewellyn as a closet
:32:27. > :32:29.Lib Dem and, a classic sycophant presiding over a shambolic court.
:32:30. > :32:33.Why doesn't he say what he means? He went on to describe Craig Oliver as
:32:34. > :32:37.clueless. What did you make of, that Michael? I thought it was
:32:38. > :32:41.extraordinary. Someone who had recently been an adviser to a
:32:42. > :32:46.Secretary of State. Remarkable. He's used all the words. Is he right? I
:32:47. > :32:50.think most Conservatives think that there's a problem at the heart of
:32:51. > :32:59.the Prime Minister's operation, yes. So there's a problem at the heart,
:33:00. > :33:06.you've revealed tonight, of Mr Miliband's operation and at the
:33:07. > :33:14.heart of the Prime Minister's. Well. We are not exactly in the territory
:33:15. > :33:21.of Alastair Campbell. We do not have a dominant figure who is controlling
:33:22. > :33:31.and intimidating and driving the press and putting out the Government
:33:32. > :33:38.message. You couldn't say we are in that situation, could you? No, I
:33:39. > :33:45.think that would be fair. What's the truth of these stories that Mr Clegg
:33:46. > :33:50.is beginning to think maybe we should have a referendum on Europe
:33:51. > :33:58.after all? There is an active conservation going on. Personally I
:33:59. > :34:07.think it is not just inevitable but it would be a good idea to change
:34:08. > :34:17.the position on the referendum. It was a bit of a muddle I think. I
:34:18. > :34:23.think a clear promise to hold a referendum and to fight for a let's
:34:24. > :34:29.admit stay in would be more honest and is the right position for a
:34:30. > :34:34.Democratic Party, one which had the word democrat in its name. I think
:34:35. > :34:39.it is millennium mensually significant. As you know, it is my
:34:40. > :34:45.-- I think it is immensely significant. It is my view that they
:34:46. > :34:53.will not win an overall majority. There isn't going to be a referendum
:34:54. > :35:00.because there isn't going to be a majority Government. If the Lib Dems
:35:01. > :35:16.change their view, there is another chance of a coalition between
:35:17. > :35:33.That's why we've decided to put speaking English in this week's
:35:34. > :35:49.spotlight. You are probably more familiar with grebe Juan
:35:50. > :35:57.According to he can's social Social Attitude Survey 95% of people claim
:35:58. > :36:02.the ability to speak English is essential if you want to be
:36:03. > :36:07.considered truly British. In Brazil you can hear many of the world's
:36:08. > :36:12.languages, but as commentator Phil Neville found out, just because you
:36:13. > :36:20.speak English, sort of, doesn't mean the world wants to hear you. That's
:36:21. > :36:25.why I think and you know and I think you know... In football. As the
:36:26. > :36:31.Chinese premier pays us a visit and the PM employs a translator, has
:36:32. > :36:36.Chinese economic power become so great can we no longer call English
:36:37. > :36:40.the international language of business? How important is the
:36:41. > :36:46.mother tongue to identity and social cohesion. Does the English language
:36:47. > :36:53.still matter or matter more than ever. Should everyone be talking
:36:54. > :36:59.like what we do on he can, innit? Welcome to he can. Your English is
:37:00. > :37:05.much better than many British people's English. I doubt it. Why is
:37:06. > :37:09.that? Obviously it's not. I think you just proved that it is. Thank
:37:10. > :37:17.you. It is probably better than your Danish. Yes, that's not a high bar.
:37:18. > :37:23.I know. I will crawl over it. Obviously I come from a very small
:37:24. > :37:26.country and we have to I think speak other languages. In order to
:37:27. > :37:33.communicate with the rest of the world. It is not just other
:37:34. > :37:37.languages is it? There seems to be an assumption in Denmark everyone
:37:38. > :37:44.should speak English to a decent standard. I'm told 85 % of Danes
:37:45. > :37:50.have English as a second language. I thought it was more. It is because
:37:51. > :37:59.we are a very small nation and we can't be self - what's the word -
:38:00. > :38:02.self supplying with anything. Certainly not culturally speak, so
:38:03. > :38:09.we are used to importing culture. We get a lot of music and films and
:38:10. > :38:17.culture from America and England. We are used to hearing it. But when it
:38:18. > :38:24.comes to television in this country, the only imports we normally have
:38:25. > :38:28.are American, because of the same language. There's always been
:38:29. > :38:32.resistance to watching programmes with subtitles. You changed that.
:38:33. > :38:38.You made subtitles acceptable in this country. Somebody told me
:38:39. > :38:43.actually when The Killing was on the BBC that it was the third time that
:38:44. > :38:47.the BBC had shown a series with subtitles. And now you can't get
:38:48. > :38:54.away from them. We've got Borgen, The Bridge, the French one on Canal
:38:55. > :38:58.Plus. All sorts of things but we still don't speak these languages.
:38:59. > :39:04.But you don't have to. The that's the wonderful thing about subtitles.
:39:05. > :39:08.What I think, on the one hand, it is just lovely that a thing is
:39:09. > :39:14.successful and that it is well received. But it was very clear to
:39:15. > :39:20.me, especially with the way the British received The Killing, that
:39:21. > :39:29.on the one hand you have this show being entertaining and making and
:39:30. > :39:33.getting an audience, but there was a cultural exchange, which makes me
:39:34. > :39:40.proud. It proves to me the importance of sharing our stories.
:39:41. > :39:45.Thank to Borgen we now know how coalition Government works. We never
:39:46. > :39:50.did until this lot tried it. Now we understand it. And you are about to
:39:51. > :39:56.take to the stage at the Edinburgh festival, your first English
:39:57. > :40:00.language play. Your English is excellent but is it still daunting
:40:01. > :40:07.to perform a play in a second language? A bit. It is terrifying. I
:40:08. > :40:13.have to, I have just started rehearsing. Yes, it is terrifying.
:40:14. > :40:20.And all the other actors are Scottish, so I'm like, I understand
:40:21. > :40:25.almost everything they say, but still it's a completely different,
:40:26. > :40:30.and I'm not going to even attempt to speak Scottish. I wonder, because
:40:31. > :40:38.you are going to be playing Queen Margaret. I ought to speak Scottish.
:40:39. > :40:43.Except she came from Denmark. She came to Scotland when she was 12. Do
:40:44. > :40:48.you think she picked up a Scottish accent? Don't you? I think she spoke
:40:49. > :40:54.fluently Scottish. So are you not going to try it with a Scottish
:40:55. > :40:58.accent? Because I can help. The aristocracy in Scotland don't use a
:40:59. > :41:07.Scottish accent. I think they did back then. How do you know that? I
:41:08. > :41:12.don't. I said, I think. They hadn't been contaminated by going to
:41:13. > :41:18.English public schools and sounding like you. You You can always
:41:19. > :41:26.impersonate something. Can we go back to British values. I think you
:41:27. > :41:31.need to know a language almost perfectly, 99%, not be in some way
:41:32. > :41:35.excluded. I speak fairly decent Spanish but when I go to Spain I'm
:41:36. > :41:39.that were there's a barrier between me and the proper conversation I
:41:40. > :41:45.would like to have, because I'm not anywhere near that 99%. You are at
:41:46. > :41:49.99%. No I'm not. In a way it doesn't matter about you for a moment, but I
:41:50. > :41:54.do think people in Britain. My father I think was substantially
:41:55. > :42:02.excluded because his flower was only 70%. Diane? Quite often foreigners,
:42:03. > :42:06.including from the West Indies and all sorts of places, speak better
:42:07. > :42:12.English than some English people. They may have an accent but they
:42:13. > :42:18.speak better and more grammatical English, mainly because they were
:42:19. > :42:22.taught grammar. You've got to pick up the current slang. You've got to
:42:23. > :42:28.be in with the humour, to have all the nuances. If you hang around with
:42:29. > :42:32.the Scots, you will pick that up. We open at the Edinburgh festival. It
:42:33. > :42:37.is a co-production with the National Theatre of Scotland and the National
:42:38. > :42:41.Theatre. Good luck with it. When you get on that plane in the final
:42:42. > :42:46.episode of The Killing, where did you go? I think I took a plane to
:42:47. > :42:48.Iceland. You are not coming back? Is definitely not. That's a pity. Good
:42:49. > :42:52.luck with the play. But not for us,
:42:53. > :42:56.because it's Boris Johnson's He's managed to reach 50 -
:42:57. > :43:00.years that is, not affairs. Michael says he'll wait outside
:43:01. > :43:04.in the car. But we leave you tonight with
:43:05. > :43:06.a call from Peter Tapsell, Father of the House of Commons,
:43:07. > :43:09.for Tony Blair to be impeached. "Impeach the President" was a cry
:43:10. > :43:12.during Watergate, but it hasn't been His English isn't too good,
:43:13. > :43:18.so I hope you can understand him. Nighty-night,
:43:19. > :43:34.don't let President Blair bite. so I hope you can understand him.
:43:35. > :43:40.The ancient but still existing power of backbenchers to commence the
:43:41. > :43:48.procedures of impeachment should now be activated, to bring Mr Tony Blair
:43:49. > :44:03.to account for allegedly misleading the House on the necessity of the
:44:04. > :44:08.invasion of Iraq in 20 #0 0 #3 3. -- in 200 #3 3.