:00:10. > :00:16.Tonight on This Week: As the mighty Morph returns to our screens, we ask
:00:17. > :00:19.him to help us review the political week. The little plasticine man
:00:20. > :00:24.makes a welcome comeback, while another TV star, Rolf Harris, could
:00:25. > :00:30.soon be behind prison bars. The Times' TV critic, Andrew Billen,
:00:31. > :00:36.also lives in a wooden pencil box. This box was also on trial this week
:00:37. > :00:40.and was as guilty as Rolf Harris. Labour Leader, Ed Miliband, would
:00:41. > :00:43.like to be as popular as Morph. Should he change his shape and
:00:44. > :00:48.character? Journalist and commentator Mary Ann Sieghart is
:00:49. > :00:55.moulding her own political model. This was the week when Ed Miliband
:00:56. > :01:00.Morphed from being from the great crusader against big business to
:01:01. > :01:03.wanting them to be his friend. And straight-talking American chat show
:01:04. > :01:08.host, Chelsea Handler, is here and ready to ask Morph some difficult
:01:09. > :01:14.questions. Honestly Morph I don't nope who you are or why I'm on This
:01:15. > :01:20.Week. We all speak gobbledygook on This Week.
:01:21. > :01:23.Evenin' all, welcome to This Week. A week in which David Cameron put on
:01:24. > :01:26.his well-rehearsed "concerned sad face" and called for co-ordinated
:01:27. > :01:29.action to combat a growing public health threat. Apparently there's a
:01:30. > :01:33.dangerous increase in the public's resistance to politicians and their
:01:34. > :01:37.meaningless promises and phrases. Call me Concerned Dave warned that
:01:38. > :01:40.Westminster was "in danger of going back to the Dark Ages" when voters
:01:41. > :01:45.weren't treated like docile idiots, as resistance to political drivel
:01:46. > :01:47.grows ever stronger. Dr Dave was particularly concerned that people
:01:48. > :01:50.had noticed the coalition hasn't developed any new policies for
:01:51. > :01:52.months and that there was an "over-use problem" - with the
:01:53. > :01:55.repetition of tedious sound-bites, long-term economic plan, cost of
:01:56. > :02:05.living crisis, hard-working families, to such an extent that we
:02:06. > :02:08.no longer listen to a word they say. Plus, a worrying number of voters
:02:09. > :02:11.are now almost entirely resistant to superbugs such as Nick Cleggover, Ed
:02:12. > :02:17.Moribund, and a particularly virulent strain of Boy George
:02:18. > :02:21.Osborne. All of whom bring out a nasty rash on anyone within a 10-ft
:02:22. > :02:24.radius, and an urgent need to visit the bathroom within ten seconds.
:02:25. > :02:28.Speaking of those who aren't medically trained but still feel the
:02:29. > :02:32.need to prescribe our treatment, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two
:02:33. > :02:35.candy sized political treats. Think of them as the Dolly Mixture and
:02:36. > :02:39.Dolly Parton of late night political chat. I speak, of course, of
:02:40. > :02:42.#sadmanonatrain Michael Portillo. And back, despite almost no public
:02:43. > :02:53.demand whatsoever, #baffled Diane Abbott. Your moment of the week. I
:02:54. > :02:57.think the moment that the terrorist organisation ISIS declared he wanted
:02:58. > :03:01.to be known as Islamic State in future, that it can created a
:03:02. > :03:06.caliphate that crossed the borders of Syria and Iraq, that comprises
:03:07. > :03:10.quite a large amount of territory. I think it is the moment of the weeks
:03:11. > :03:14.because I'm not sure we shall ever see Iraq recreated in our lifetime.
:03:15. > :03:21.It is the end of the borders that were drawn by the Western Power as
:03:22. > :03:25.century ago. When you consider that before 9/11, in 2001, many people
:03:26. > :03:30.had not heard of Al-Qaeda, the progress made from being a terrorist
:03:31. > :03:35.organisation to being now an organisation that has armies and
:03:36. > :03:41.even has a state and a caliphate, with ambitions to go back to map
:03:42. > :03:45.which was drawn between 600 and 700 AD, that's worthy of being a moment
:03:46. > :03:52.of the week. It is a moment of the decade, perhaps. The Saudis have
:03:53. > :03:56.rushed 30,000 troops to the border. Ened Kurdish part of Iraq has
:03:57. > :04:00.effectively gone. Iraq is over. Yes. The Kurds should be separate.
:04:01. > :04:05.Interesting that the Saudis, who are Sunnis, are rushing to defend
:04:06. > :04:11.themselves against Sunnis. Yes, but of course a different kind. Diane,
:04:12. > :04:17.your moment of the week? Mine is a footnote in Labour history. Dennis
:04:18. > :04:24.Skinner MP was knocked off the NEC. Why? Because the type of MP that
:04:25. > :04:29.would have voted for Dennis Skinner without blinking, former miners,
:04:30. > :04:34.have largely gone from the parliamentary Labour Party. He was
:04:35. > :04:39.on the NEC for 33 years all to do due remember when people used to
:04:40. > :04:44.come back and they would be filled... We used to cover them.
:04:45. > :04:50.Exactly, and Denis used to give interviews. No-one does that now. A
:04:51. > :04:55.lot of people regret it. For those viewers on Twitter who want to
:04:56. > :05:15.campaign the hash tag is bring back Denis. I see. I bet he's not an
:05:16. > :05:17.Twitter. I don't think he is. ?? LINEBREAK Now, this week saw
:05:18. > :05:20.millions of childhood memories reassessed, as veteran entertainer
:05:21. > :05:23.Rolf Harris was found guilty of 12 counts of indecently assaulting
:05:24. > :05:26.girls in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. But did his celebrity status protect
:05:27. > :05:30.him from being asked questions at the time? And is that same celebrity
:05:31. > :05:33.now the reason why there has been such interest in his historic
:05:34. > :05:37.crimes? We turned to The Times TV critic and children's author Andrew
:05:38. > :05:47.Billen. This is his take of the week.
:05:48. > :05:57.Television likes to think it can spot phonies. It's a truth-obtaining
:05:58. > :06:00.medium. Be yourself or people at home will see through you. Well, we
:06:01. > :06:08.didn't see through Rolf Harris. Even a nation as wised up to sex as ours
:06:09. > :06:13.was shocked by Monday's verdict. This breezy innocence survived 50
:06:14. > :06:17.years in children's schedules, because he persuaded us he was half
:06:18. > :06:24.child himself. A bearded boy-man, who shared his audiences' puerile
:06:25. > :06:29.pleasures in cartoons and pets. Can wele the what it was yet, he asked
:06:30. > :06:40.of his paintings? We couldn't even tell what he was. We long tolerated
:06:41. > :06:49.the obvious phonies. Hughie Green told us he meant things most
:06:50. > :06:55.sincerely. We knew he didn't. Didn't Jess Yeates, no shock when he was
:06:56. > :06:59.exposed as an adulterer. If you didn't realise there was something
:07:00. > :07:10.weird and aggressive about Jimmy Savile you were probably a BBC
:07:11. > :07:18.executive. And therein lay the problem. In the 1970s, 80s and 90s
:07:19. > :07:22.celebrity got too big for its boots, and public service television licked
:07:23. > :07:36.them. The new monarchs of the tube decided the sweetest thing to do
:07:37. > :07:41.with power was to abuse it. Eight years ago when Harris painted the
:07:42. > :07:47.Queen for the BBC, we scrutinised Her Majesty for her humanity. It
:07:48. > :07:54.turns out we should have been scrutinising King Rolf for his. His
:07:55. > :07:57.reign is over now, his reputation smashed. And television's isn't
:07:58. > :08:06.looking much healthier. And from the British Vintage
:08:07. > :08:09.Wireless and Television Museum in West Dulwich to our own little
:08:10. > :08:13.museum of vintage TV here in the heart of Westminster, Andrew Billen
:08:14. > :08:17.welcome to the programme. Why do you think the conviction of
:08:18. > :08:24.Rolf Harris is more shocking than the other high-profile cases? Not
:08:25. > :08:33.worse, but shocking. He was so good at fooling us. So many of us,
:08:34. > :08:39.including me, saw him as something different. Many people were repelled
:08:40. > :08:42.by Jimmy Savile. I never liked him as a kid, and neither did my
:08:43. > :08:47.schoolfriends, but Harris was regarded as a harmless well-liked
:08:48. > :08:54.entertainer wasn't he? Television has a reputation for seeing through
:08:55. > :09:00.phoniness. It maybe even goes back to that Kennedy Nixon debate in 19
:09:01. > :09:09.of,ment Kennedy won it as far as radio saw it... Kennedy won the
:09:10. > :09:19.television and Nixon won the radio. When they saw the stubble and the
:09:20. > :09:22.Dewi lip... I think Andrew's analysis is right. I never
:09:23. > :09:26.particularly thought that television did see through phonies. I thought
:09:27. > :09:33.it was like the stage. It was an opportunity for people to act and
:09:34. > :09:37.present a facade. But I think a naivety goes back further than that.
:09:38. > :09:41.It has been over a long period in many fields not to realise that
:09:42. > :09:45.where there are children, point of view will be attracted. It is period
:09:46. > :09:48.in many fields not to realise that where there are children, point of
:09:49. > :09:51.view will be attracted. It is not -- paedophiles will be attracted. It is
:09:52. > :09:54.not a coincidence that in the Catholic Church and children's
:09:55. > :09:57.television there are paedophiles. A number of environment, including
:09:58. > :10:02.television and the Catholic Church, in the first case because of
:10:03. > :10:05.celebrity and the second case to avoid scandal, there was a pretty
:10:06. > :10:11.great uncertainty that they were not going to be exposed or produced. You
:10:12. > :10:15.have a ready supply of children and a guarantee that they are not going
:10:16. > :10:21.to be brought to justice. It is going to attract paedophiles. I
:10:22. > :10:25.think Michael is right to say that where there are children you will
:10:26. > :10:31.find paedophiles. I think Andrew's thesis is a bit bizarre. I imagine
:10:32. > :10:35.one has had monsters of that nature going back centuries. Television as
:10:36. > :10:38.a whole, not the BBC necessarily, the particularly when there were
:10:39. > :10:43.only two channels and most people watch them, people were able to
:10:44. > :10:47.become huge omnipresent personalities in a way they hadn't
:10:48. > :10:54.been before. The considered that the BBC has produced people that molest
:10:55. > :11:00.children is nuts. We though there are schools, children's homes have
:11:01. > :11:06.been involved in this as well. The Church. Why television? It allowed
:11:07. > :11:10.television to get out of hand and a public service broadcaster should
:11:11. > :11:16.have held it in check. The BBC is probably run by civil civil servant
:11:17. > :11:21.types and didn't know how to discipline. Don't think it helps to
:11:22. > :11:25.turn this into an attack on the BBC. Lots of good reasons to attack the
:11:26. > :11:30.BBC, maybe employing us try is a good reason to attack it. I think
:11:31. > :11:34.there are more profound issues about paedophiles and people accessing
:11:35. > :11:40.children which we should discuss. I think there has been a broad worship
:11:41. > :11:45.of celebrities on the BBC. ITV is guilty of this as well. When the BBC
:11:46. > :11:49.was paying Jonathan Ross ?6 million a year and supposedly because they
:11:50. > :11:55.were afraid that ITV would pay him more, that is where celebrity gets
:11:56. > :12:02.out of hand. Mike, as a good Peterhouse boy you are being very
:12:03. > :12:08.ahistorical. Celebrity goes back to the 19th century. Lillie Langtry, a
:12:09. > :12:13.huge celebrity. Television cranks it up but it's not not creating the
:12:14. > :12:16.cult of celebrity. Whether it is television or something in our
:12:17. > :12:25.culture that someone weird like Savile, of no obvious ability
:12:26. > :12:30.whatsoever, could become such a national celebrity. Even because we
:12:31. > :12:34.are all suckers for charitable work, a national treasure. How could that
:12:35. > :12:39.happen? The charity thing helped as a Dover didn't it. It is
:12:40. > :12:44.inexplicable. So many people who worked with him now say they kind of
:12:45. > :12:48.knew what he was up to. Yet there was no chain of command, at no point
:12:49. > :12:54.was anybody taking him aside or talking to his agent and saying,
:12:55. > :13:00.knock it off. The charity bit is another part of it. Every year the
:13:01. > :13:03.BBC runs the Children In Need campaign and takes great pride of
:13:04. > :13:12.the huge amounts of money raised, which by the way are pitful to what
:13:13. > :13:18.we pay in our taxes to charity. And the celebrities what they earn. And
:13:19. > :13:21.they get enormous kudos going on there and posturing about how much
:13:22. > :13:26.they care about charities. Savile was such a case. These hospitals and
:13:27. > :13:31.other organisations and institutions thought he was the great meal
:13:32. > :13:35.ticket. He could bring them a million pounds or two million
:13:36. > :13:41.pounds, which for them was riches beyond their wildest dreams. Savile
:13:42. > :13:45.was creepy and it was odd how Ministers allowed him to have a role
:13:46. > :13:50.in Broadmoor hospital. Savile Andujaris began at the start of what
:13:51. > :13:54.we now regard as celebrity culture. It is much worse now. Celebrity
:13:55. > :13:59.culture is much worse than it was when they were this their heyday.
:14:00. > :14:05.But it is more transparent now. It is more transparent, the places are
:14:06. > :14:08.run by lawyers who don't want to be sued, human resources departments.
:14:09. > :14:14.If I behaved in the way that either Harris let alone Savile did in my
:14:15. > :14:20.newsroom, I would be called up for a very swift firing. A due oply has
:14:21. > :14:25.gone. When you had only ITV and BBC One, as we did in the old days, of
:14:26. > :14:30.course these celebrities dominated the field. There was nowhere else we
:14:31. > :14:36.could find our celebrities. Now we have a multiplicity of media, it is
:14:37. > :14:42.much easier. And at Westminster, allegation of a paedophile ring in
:14:43. > :14:47.the 1970s, a missing file. A call for a public inquiry. In the current
:14:48. > :15:02.climate that's a call that may well be heeded.
:15:03. > :15:07.this for some time. I mean, Jeffrey Dickens is at the heart of this. He
:15:08. > :15:12.presented the dossier to Leon Britton. I have a lot of good things
:15:13. > :15:23.to say about him, he was my friend, but I wouldn't immediately take it
:15:24. > :15:29.serious. For a long time, there's been a great try to find paedophile
:15:30. > :15:32.in politics, Lord McAlpine was accused of being involve and he was
:15:33. > :15:36.able to sue for handsome sums of money and I'm very pleased indeed
:15:37. > :15:41.that that happened. Can we be sure that there isn't a Harris or a
:15:42. > :15:47.Savile out there today? In the same position? What in TV? Yes. You know
:15:48. > :15:59.better than me who is out there. We didn't.
:16:00. > :16:02.Louis Theroux put it to him. The BBC executives said they had no clue.
:16:03. > :16:06.The allegation was current enough. I never knew anything about Harris,
:16:07. > :16:14.did you? No, this is why I find it so shocking. So it could still be
:16:15. > :16:19.out there? Of course it could be. Andrew, Billen, thank you very much.
:16:20. > :16:24.It's late, a bit like Colleen Rooney's suitcases, so stay with us.
:16:25. > :16:28.Waiting in the wings, top, top American talk show host and
:16:29. > :16:33.straight-talking standup, Chelsea is here to discuss whether honesty is
:16:34. > :16:43.always the best policy. For those who tell lies, damn lies and Tweets,
:16:44. > :16:49.there's always the Fleecebook, the Internet and the -- interweb and the
:16:50. > :16:59.Twitter. The Tour de France will be making
:17:00. > :17:08.its way through the Cote d' Harrogate.
:17:09. > :17:14.The cries will be replaced by ally, ally, ally. What's been happening
:17:15. > :17:31.happening in the news political cycle? Mary-Ann Sieghart gives us
:17:32. > :17:34.the round-up of the political week. Politicians can never resist a bit
:17:35. > :17:38.of spin. And when you're right at the top of politics, you need the
:17:39. > :17:41.wheels to two round really fast so you don't wobble on.
:17:42. > :17:46.It's a lesson Ed Miliband's learning the hard way. He's facing criticism
:17:47. > :17:50.from his own side for not having enough exciting ideas and for being
:17:51. > :17:54.antibusiness. So his big new idea was to get the economy to speed up
:17:55. > :17:58.outside London. And like the Tour de France which starts in Yorkshire on
:17:59. > :18:03.Saturday, he went to Leeds to launch it. We have a vision, for a
:18:04. > :18:09.high-sky, high-wage future for Britain and we are willing to do the
:18:10. > :18:13.things to make that happen -- high-skill. Whether that is giving
:18:14. > :18:18.power to local people to make decisions about what matter to them.
:18:19. > :18:20.It may be grim up north but having these polices turn up all the time
:18:21. > :18:32.can't be making people any cheerier. Despite starting the week on the
:18:33. > :18:35.economy, Mr Miliband quickly back pedalled into safer Labour territory
:18:36. > :18:39.at Prime Minister eats questions. That was all about the NHS and
:18:40. > :18:43.waiting times where Labour leads the Tories in the polls. He asks me to
:18:44. > :18:48.defend my record over the last four years. I will. There are 7,000 more
:18:49. > :18:54.doctors. There are 4,000 more nurses.
:18:55. > :18:59.There's over 1,000 more midwives. We are treating over a million more
:19:00. > :19:07.patients a year and whereas the NHS under Labour had the disgrace of Mid
:19:08. > :19:12.Staffs, you can now see the NHS properly being invested in and
:19:13. > :19:17.properly being improved. The shortest waiting times ever on our
:19:18. > :19:20.record, more doctors and nurses than ever before and the highst patient
:19:21. > :19:25.satisfaction ever. That's Labour's record on the NHS.
:19:26. > :19:28.But this is tricky for Mr Miliband. Although Labour's much more trusted
:19:29. > :19:32.than the Conservatives on the NHS, health isn't nearly as important an
:19:33. > :19:35.issue in voters' minds as the economy.
:19:36. > :19:42.On managing the economy, the Tories are well ahead of Labour, in fact,
:19:43. > :19:51.the furthest ahead they have been since they won power. When voters
:19:52. > :19:55.are asked, who'd best handle the economy, there's one political party
:19:56. > :19:58.15% ahead. Right, all set to challenge the King
:19:59. > :20:03.of the mountains now. Another King. Well, a future one
:20:04. > :20:07.anyway, has also been doing a bit of challenging this week. You are
:20:08. > :20:11.nobody in politics if you haven't been lobbied by the Prince of Wales
:20:12. > :20:19.in one of his famous black spider letters, that's his hand writing I'm
:20:20. > :20:22.referring to, not a voodoo curse. He lobbied them on complimentary
:20:23. > :20:27.medicine and climate change and David Blunkett told us how the
:20:28. > :20:32.prince tried to persuade him to expand grammar schools. I would
:20:33. > :20:36.explain that our policy was not to expand grammar schools. He didn't
:20:37. > :20:41.like that. He was very keen that we should go back to a different era
:20:42. > :20:44.where youngsters had the, what he would have seen as the opportunity
:20:45. > :20:50.to escape from their background, whereas I wanted to change their
:20:51. > :20:54.background. To help get the summer party season
:20:55. > :21:00.into gear, David Cameron threw a bit of a celebrity bash earlier this
:21:01. > :21:07.week. Or at least he tried to. Trouble was, made him look like a
:21:08. > :21:13.bit of a Noddy No Mates, because not many showed up. Not exactly cool
:21:14. > :21:18.Britannia these days are we? It will be nice to see so many people from
:21:19. > :21:23.my business here and to see so many friend. I'm here to talk about
:21:24. > :21:28.entertainment tonight. Oh, well, at least I made it to
:21:29. > :21:45.Downing Street. Tactics. Tactics Stay by the pack.
:21:46. > :21:56.Make the brake when on the final straight or race for the front and
:21:57. > :22:00.try and stay there without support? The latter was what David Cameron
:22:01. > :22:03.tried to do oaf the appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker as Head of The
:22:04. > :22:09.European Commission. Mr Juncker had far too many team-mates helping him,
:22:10. > :22:13.and by the end, David Cameron had a lone Hungarian. He didn't stand a
:22:14. > :22:17.chance. He tried to turn humiliation into
:22:18. > :22:22.principled defeat when he came back to face the Commons. In the European
:22:23. > :22:25.elections, people tried out for change across the continent. They
:22:26. > :22:29.are intensely frustrated and they deserve a voice. Britain will be the
:22:30. > :22:34.voice of those people. We will always stand up for our principles,
:22:35. > :22:38.we'll always defend our national interests and we'll fight with all
:22:39. > :22:43.we have to reform the EU over the next few years.
:22:44. > :22:52.After all, this was only one stage in the race. This one's going to run
:22:53. > :23:05.until at least 2017 and there'll be plenty more yellow jumpers or
:23:06. > :23:07.Junckers to be won or lost on them. APPLAUSE
:23:08. > :23:11.Sparkling Blue Nun. Miranda joins us again. Good to see
:23:12. > :23:16.you. Diane, how well do you think Ed's big week on business and the
:23:17. > :23:23.economy's gone? It's gone fine. What can I say. What way has it gone
:23:24. > :23:27.fine? Well, they got their speeches made, the sound bytes had gone out
:23:28. > :23:35.there. Don't look at me sneering like that. No, no, no, I'm listening
:23:36. > :23:39.intently. "Listening intently" when in opposition, you can't defect...
:23:40. > :23:44.What would you say was the clearest message that's come out? That he
:23:45. > :23:48.really would like business to like him. Do you think? Yes. He's a
:23:49. > :23:53.Labour Leader, why does he need business to like him? Oh, no, let's
:23:54. > :24:05.be reasonable. The Labour Party's always had support for business,
:24:06. > :24:10.going back years. Always had support in business. Where are you on the
:24:11. > :24:16.debate over whether he need to be bolder, Jon Cruddas saying that, or
:24:17. > :24:25.have a more focussed-driven strategy? Oh, I mean, you know, he's
:24:26. > :24:29.got policies. He can't win, now he's got too many policies. He's got
:24:30. > :24:34.policies and he does have a sort of narrative. The argument is that he's
:24:35. > :24:39.got to look more Prime Ministerial, but, you know, I think he'll look
:24:40. > :24:42.like a Prime Minister when, I sincerely hope, in less than a year,
:24:43. > :24:48.he is Prime Minister. What would you rate the chances of that? The odds
:24:49. > :24:56.extremely high. How high? As high as you can imagine. How bad is it for
:24:57. > :25:01.Ed Miliband at the moment? There's a kind of packed journalism, the skids
:25:02. > :25:06.are under you, everybody piles in and he can't stop skidding. Are the
:25:07. > :25:10.media amplifying, exaggerating how bad it is for him? There's two
:25:11. > :25:14.schoolsthought, aren't there? One says that the image is is the
:25:15. > :25:17.substance and that actually, the public are dubious about Ed Miliband
:25:18. > :25:24.and they think he's a bit strange and they can't see him as aple on
:25:25. > :25:34.the steps of Number Ten -- as a Prime Minister. All this nonsense
:25:35. > :25:39.about whether he can eat a bacon butte elegantly stands up when
:25:40. > :25:42.people question it. Some like having a go and hitting people when they
:25:43. > :25:47.are down. Nick Clegg's been through it for several years. It takes away
:25:48. > :25:51.from the fact that the Liberal Democrat poll ratings and his
:25:52. > :26:00.personal ratings are dire? Ed Miliband's are now even worse, so
:26:01. > :26:06.you've got two. Two out of the three party leaders with a serious
:26:07. > :26:11.personal problem and then youth got Cameron who is seen asth as more
:26:12. > :26:18.Prime Ministerial and is being condemned by a lot of commentators
:26:19. > :26:24.for his recent appearance in Europe and the experience with Juncker and
:26:25. > :26:27.he's chimed with the voters, but it's an imbalanced situation. You
:26:28. > :26:30.don't have three strong leaders, you have one that's far out in the
:26:31. > :26:35.moment but I don't know whether that will change. The treatment Mr
:26:36. > :26:39.Miliband is getting remind me of the treatment John Major got after the
:26:40. > :26:43.collapse of the ERM and the ignamy and black Wednesday because it
:26:44. > :26:49.became open season on him and that kind of just grew too? Yes. I think
:26:50. > :26:52.that was a more extraordinary case because he was actually a Prime
:26:53. > :26:56.Minister. The Ed Miliband thing, I think you see very frequently. As
:26:57. > :27:00.with Michael Howard, Iain Duncan Smith and Neil Kinnock in
:27:01. > :27:03.particular, people who, as you say, have not been Prime Minister, found
:27:04. > :27:10.it extremely difficult on the whole to convince people that they were
:27:11. > :27:13.Prime Ministerial. I think even Margaret Thatcher before he was
:27:14. > :27:15.Prime Minister had great trouble in convincing people that sheshed be a
:27:16. > :27:19.proper Prime Minister. That might be of some consolation to Ed. But at
:27:20. > :27:24.some point, it may get so bad, as in the case of Neil Kinnock and Michael
:27:25. > :27:27.Howard, that they simply are not voted in because people can't
:27:28. > :27:32.imagine them being Prime Minister. Remember, a lot of the whispers
:27:33. > :27:37.about Ed Miliband come not from the Westminster press core, but from
:27:38. > :27:44.inside his own Shadow Cabinet, he's surrounding by people who did not
:27:45. > :27:49.support him to be leader. What about your colleague, Chuka Umunna, the
:27:50. > :28:03.long level banner in Le Monde, and there's a growing profile of him
:28:04. > :28:08.tomorrow in a page of The Economist. David Cameron, how do we assess his
:28:09. > :28:12.domestic position after the whole Juncker business? I think almost
:28:13. > :28:18.certainly improved by the whole Juncker business. At least in the
:28:19. > :28:21.short-term. I think he did turn into his advantage, this whole thing
:28:22. > :28:25.about standing up for what he believed and standing up for Britain
:28:26. > :28:30.played very well. He has immensely complicated the hand that he has to
:28:31. > :28:34.play over Europe, so that is now a medium term problem. Difficult, yes.
:28:35. > :28:38.I mean, how on earth will you go into the next election, as David
:28:39. > :28:42.Cameron, saying, I'm really sure that I can convince my European
:28:43. > :28:46.colleagues to make significant changes which I can then come back
:28:47. > :28:53.to you and say are worthy for you to vote on, I mean that is Noel now
:28:54. > :28:58.wholly inconvincing. He has a big problem because of Europe which
:28:59. > :29:02.feeds back into what Labour is up to which is that business is totally
:29:03. > :29:08.spooked by the idea of a European referendum on what it calls the
:29:09. > :29:13.arbitrary date of 2017 and... Is it The CBI, the EVF, have all been
:29:14. > :29:22.saying they are worried and it's a good moment for Labour to be trying
:29:23. > :29:28.to cosy up to Labour. We always know what the CBI's position is. It's
:29:29. > :29:32.always an established position. It's an established position and it's
:29:33. > :29:40.always wrong. These are the people who want to be in the -- wanted us
:29:41. > :29:43.to be in the ERM. They have form. Politically, it's very convenient
:29:44. > :29:47.for Labour though because they can take advantage of this. If they
:29:48. > :29:52.decided to become more reasonable, you know. A couple of weeks ago,
:29:53. > :29:55.Lord Mandelson was complaining that Labour was looking far too
:29:56. > :30:02.antibusiness because of the Europe issue. This is a good time for them
:30:03. > :30:07.to mend some fences there. We have pranked the coffin lid down on Lord
:30:08. > :30:11.Mandelson, so let's not go there. Labour is wise, Ed Miliband in
:30:12. > :30:17.particular is wise to resist the cause now from Unite that he should
:30:18. > :30:21.pledge a referendum. Why on earth would Labour want to pledge a
:30:22. > :30:27.referendum? The Conservatives were pledging United's policy. They don't
:30:28. > :30:31.even get any money, whereas Labour is not... The Liberal Democrats must
:30:32. > :30:35.be worried know. There could well be a referendum on Europe and it could
:30:36. > :30:41.be tough to win? Very much so, yes. And there's been this recent all too
:30:42. > :30:46.fresh experience of the disaster at the referendum. However, with the
:30:47. > :30:50.European referendum, it would be different because people tend to, if
:30:51. > :30:56.they are unsure, to go for the status quo. Wait and see what
:30:57. > :31:00.happens in Scotland. Yes. That casts a shadow over everything. But I've
:31:01. > :31:04.always thought there would not be a referendum because there wouldn't be
:31:05. > :31:07.a Tory majority. My certainty on this has been shaken a bit partly
:31:08. > :31:10.because certain Liberal Democrats have been entertaining the idea of
:31:11. > :31:14.going for a referendum and partly because I can also see that in the
:31:15. > :31:18.mile strop following a general election, it may be that Nick Clegg
:31:19. > :31:22.who's held out particularly loses his seat, at which point we don't
:31:23. > :31:26.know who will be in charge of the Liberal Democrats, we don't know how
:31:27. > :31:31.anxious they might be to be in power, if they are sensible, very
:31:32. > :31:35.anxious, and giving away a referendum which on the whole I
:31:36. > :31:48.think would make a decision in favour of it.
:31:49. > :31:53.policy. And go back on their position on tuition fees as well. Do
:31:54. > :31:58.you think Ed Miliband is right to stick to his no-referendum policy
:31:59. > :32:03.unless there's major treaty change? I think at this point he's right.
:32:04. > :32:09.Would be joining a bandwagon otherwise. Yes, it would, and
:32:10. > :32:13.business likes it. There was an argument for coming up for a
:32:14. > :32:18.referendum before Cameron did, but he has to stick with this position.
:32:19. > :32:23.What about these celebrity parties at Downing Street? A celebrity party
:32:24. > :32:31.without celebrities. Why do they do it? On the plus side... Were you
:32:32. > :32:38.there? No, I wasn't. Just checking. NFI, can I say that? It is good to
:32:39. > :32:44.celebrity the creative industries. Yes, the celebrities are a small
:32:45. > :32:49.part of that. All that wonderful CGI stuff in Soho, they are not
:32:50. > :32:52.celebrities. Maybe go to where the celebrities are rather than invite
:32:53. > :32:57.them in and be embarrassed. We'll leave it there. Thank you.
:32:58. > :33:00.Now, when Michael Portillo reinvented himself as a romantic
:33:01. > :33:02.railway traveller, we took his Damascene conversion to public
:33:03. > :33:06.transport with a rather large pinch of salt. And when Diane Abbott
:33:07. > :33:08.played the West Indian card and cooked her favourite Jamaican jerk
:33:09. > :33:12.chicken recipe on Celebrity Come Dine with Me, it was obvious to
:33:13. > :33:18.everyone that she'd never actually cooked it before in her life! So why
:33:19. > :33:23.do we have such difficulty telling the truth? Especially on this show.
:33:24. > :33:26.We decided to come clean and put "honesty" in this week's Spotlight.
:33:27. > :33:42.Be warned, this contains some flash photography.
:33:43. > :33:51.It seems honesty was the best policy for Tracy Emin. Her most famous
:33:52. > :33:55.artwork, a warts and all re-creation of her filthy bed went up for
:33:56. > :34:01.auction this week. It sold for over ?2 million. Million. If truth be
:34:02. > :34:07.told it is not all about money, or is it? Who would have thought 40
:34:08. > :34:18.years ago we would be sitting here doing Monty Python? As Monty Python
:34:19. > :34:23.reunites for ten sell-out show, Eric Idle was honest about it being for
:34:24. > :34:30.cash. Are they still going? They must be coining it in. I bet it is
:34:31. > :34:38.expensive. Speaking of come-backs, Dolly Parton drew a huge crowd. Some
:34:39. > :34:45.accused her of dishonesty, miming song. She denies. This my boobs are
:34:46. > :34:55.false but my voice is real. Luis Suarez has admitted biting an
:34:56. > :34:59.opponent in the World Cup. So, while politicians' honesty is often in
:35:00. > :35:03.doubt. I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor of
:35:04. > :35:13.London. Is straight talking the way to be, or is the real truth that
:35:14. > :35:18.nobody is ever truly honest? When politicians say they have no
:35:19. > :35:23.plans it means they are about to do it. Watch this space. Chelsea
:35:24. > :35:28.Handler, welcome to the programme. You famously went on the Piers
:35:29. > :35:32.Morgan show and told him he was a terrible interviewer. Was that what
:35:33. > :35:38.you thought or were you trying to wind him up? No, that's what I
:35:39. > :35:43.thought. He is not a great interviewer. He has trouble
:35:44. > :35:49.listening. Do you have that problem? What did you say? Sur quick! Did he
:35:50. > :35:53.appreciate you? I didn't ask him. He is not paying attention to anyone
:35:54. > :35:59.who is on his show anyway. Anything I said didn't really register. He's
:36:00. > :36:03.on Twitter all the time while he's interviewing. Even when he's
:36:04. > :36:07.interviewing? Yes, it is fascinating. He didn't mind. He
:36:08. > :36:13.likes the attention. But it didn't save the show. No, it did not, but
:36:14. > :36:20.that wasn't my intention. He also said the only person who is a pain
:36:21. > :36:24.in the ass, I think you mean cars, was Russell Brand. What did you mean
:36:25. > :36:29.by that? I wouldn't say, well yeah, he was a bit of a pain in the ass.
:36:30. > :36:34.He was a little difficult to get on stage. He needed a lot of things in
:36:35. > :36:41.his green room to bring him out. Out. Out. Like three espressos.
:36:42. > :36:46.Prima donnaish? Yes, very difficult. Takes himself too seriously. I'm not
:36:47. > :36:51.really interested in that. You have a tape time, you either come on the
:36:52. > :36:56.show or you don't. We don't have time to be getting coffees for you.
:36:57. > :37:01.It is the E Network. We don't have a big budget. We do that as well. He
:37:02. > :37:08.to bring my own coffee today, so you are lying to my face now. We are
:37:09. > :37:13.poorer than a church mouse. We live on a welter of lies. Your show in
:37:14. > :37:17.the United States is different, because you were quite blunt with
:37:18. > :37:22.some of your guests. Most American talk shows, as they are called over
:37:23. > :37:27.there, they interview, the disperse viewer fawns over a celebrity. Do
:37:28. > :37:32.you not do that over here? No. I don't like that. That's kind of
:37:33. > :37:39.annoying as a viewer to watch somebody go on a chat show, as they
:37:40. > :37:44.are called over here, and have the interviewer fawn all over them. You
:37:45. > :37:49.see them so many times doing their publicity tour and to see that
:37:50. > :37:58.repeatedly can be disenchanting. I don't necessarily see a movie
:37:59. > :38:03.because I see them get their ass kicked, or their cars kicked. You
:38:04. > :38:10.are picking this up. You wrote in the book and said, I never say the
:38:11. > :38:14.things I really want to. I am losing my friends rapidly. Is that why
:38:15. > :38:21.you've come here, to make new friends? You are on my bucket list.
:38:22. > :38:26.What number? Last! Who is the most dishonest person you had on is show?
:38:27. > :38:30.I wouldn't know. I can only speculate. I don't know who's
:38:31. > :38:36.dishonest. There are people that aren't forthright. I find that not
:38:37. > :38:40.compelling. I'm not particularly intrigued speaking to people who've
:38:41. > :38:45.nothing of meaning to say or of sincerity to say. You should
:38:46. > :38:49.interview politicians. Maybe I will. No, they are not forth right. I know
:38:50. > :38:54.what a politician is. You can never get a straight answer though. This
:38:55. > :39:00.isn't a new idea. For you? Listen tow, you sound like a drunk woman at
:39:01. > :39:06.a brothel. No, I'm chuckling at the fun you are having with Andrew. Is
:39:07. > :39:12.that how drunk women sound? Where I'm from it is how they sound. Diane
:39:13. > :39:20.will tell us how they sound. You will in half an hour when we have my
:39:21. > :39:27.fourth glass. We have this wine called Portillo wine. No, we only
:39:28. > :39:29.drink Blue Nun. They were at school together, wept to University
:39:30. > :39:35.together and in Parliament together and now they work together. Lovely.
:39:36. > :39:41.You could bus one day. You always been honest in politics? I've been
:39:42. > :39:46.more honest than I should have been. That's true accurately. That's a
:39:47. > :39:52.fair assessment of her career. I do think soft. I think if Diane had
:39:53. > :39:57.been less honest she would have been in office. Do you think if she had
:39:58. > :40:02.been more honest she would have been London Mayor? Do you say that for
:40:03. > :40:08.yourself as well? I don't think I've been as honest as Diane by any
:40:09. > :40:14.means. I've been in office much more than Diane, so that's proof of that.
:40:15. > :40:20.I've been more honest than is good for me. Doesn't that feel good? She
:40:21. > :40:25.said flashes. You sometimes miss them. I heard you and I heard you
:40:26. > :40:32.repeat it. That's good. I'm delighted. That's good! Are you
:40:33. > :40:39.giving up your chat show? Yes, I'm moving on. Why? Because I'm bored.
:40:40. > :40:43.But there are so many people in America to interview. That's not a
:40:44. > :40:50.reason to go on because there's a high supply. We are grateful for
:40:51. > :40:53.anybody to interview. But get fed up interviewing vacuous celebs? Is it
:40:54. > :40:57.is fun for a bit. Anything can be fun for a while. The important thing
:40:58. > :41:01.is to realise when you are not having fun at a certain point and
:41:02. > :41:05.when you are coasting on your laurels, it is not an admirable
:41:06. > :41:09.thing to do. It is not something you wake up and get excited about. I
:41:10. > :41:13.want to be excited about other things than going on vacation. Good
:41:14. > :41:22.luck with your reinvention. The three of us recommend it. Where are
:41:23. > :41:29.the three of you off to? No, we are reinvented. You weren't listening. I
:41:30. > :41:34.was listening. I thought you meant a Sandals vacation together. Have you
:41:35. > :41:40.ever been to a Sandal as vacation? He won't wear sandals. What's the
:41:41. > :41:45.most honest thing you've ever said? That's a drunken woman. I don't
:41:46. > :41:52.think I can say it on air. Yes you can. Late at night. We are past the
:41:53. > :41:57.water she had. Let's not go there. You are doing your first ever gig,
:41:58. > :42:03.stand-up comedian at the London Palladium. Are you going to be
:42:04. > :42:06.honest in that? Yes, my stand-up revolves completely around me, baize
:42:07. > :42:11.spend so much time making fun of other people it is best to come back
:42:12. > :42:16.to yourself. To start and end with yourself. The Palladium is not a bad
:42:17. > :42:21.place to start. I'm honoured to be here. Good luck.
:42:22. > :42:24.Thank you. That's your lot for tonight folks,
:42:25. > :42:27.but not for us, because its Caliphate Restored night at Lou
:42:28. > :42:31.Lou's, and as it's past sunset, Michael and Diane are off to sink a
:42:32. > :42:34.few date juice Martinis. But we leave you tonight with an exclusive
:42:35. > :42:37.recording of what's being called the most awkward phone call of David
:42:38. > :42:39.Cameron's career, his "Congratulations, I'm looking
:42:40. > :42:42.forward to working with you" call to the new President of the European
:42:43. > :42:44.Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker. Nighty-night, don't let being
:42:45. > :42:55.isolated in Europe bite, Prime Minister.
:42:56. > :43:03.Your spacious appreciated. We'll be with you shortly... R spacious
:43:04. > :43:05.appreciated. We'll be with you shortly...
:43:06. > :43:11.-- patience is appreciated, we'll be with you shortly. Your patience is
:43:12. > :43:17.appreciated. We'll be with you shortly. Your patience is
:43:18. > :43:24.appreciated. We'll be with you We don't have to prove
:43:25. > :43:26.who used a knife any more. He's only gone and stabbed someone,
:43:27. > :43:30.hasn't he? If you were there,
:43:31. > :43:34.you'll all get done for murder. I thought
:43:35. > :43:38.they were going for a pizza! I'm pleading guilty to nothing, Mum.
:43:39. > :43:42.They can do what they want. Our son's innocent, Mrs Ward.
:43:43. > :43:45.Please, go. I've done nothing! He's done
:43:46. > :43:48.nothing! And he's done even less! I'm not letting
:43:49. > :43:50.my son plead guilty to something he didn't do! You'd
:43:51. > :43:54.sooner him stand trial for murder?!