:00:11. > :00:22.# What's new, pussycat? . #
:00:23. > :00:26.I'll tell you what's new pussycat - This Week is back, to make you purr
:00:27. > :00:29.with pleasure, just like her Majesty after David Cameron told her the
:00:30. > :00:32.Not much purring in Westminster though, as MPs are re-called to
:00:33. > :00:35.Parliament to authorise air strikes against the Islamic State in Iraq.
:00:36. > :00:36.Anti-war campaigner George Galloway thinks Cameron,
:00:37. > :00:42.Miliband and Clegg are putting the cat among the Middle East pigeons.
:00:43. > :00:49.It's going to be the mother of all cat fights in Parliament tomorrow
:00:50. > :00:51.over war with Iraq, and this the cat is well and truly involved.
:00:52. > :00:54.Labour leader, Ed Miliband, faced some catty remarks, after
:00:55. > :00:56.his final conference speech before next year's general election.
:00:57. > :00:58.Commentator Andrew Rawnsley is gathering reaction from random
:00:59. > :01:11.Ed Miliband began what he called his eight-month job interview with the
:01:12. > :01:13.British people, but unfortunately he forgot to bring along the crucial
:01:14. > :01:20.part, his CV. And sticking to the script, why
:01:21. > :01:23.did Ed Miliband forget his lines? Comedian Stephen K Amos,
:01:24. > :01:26.will be trying to forget why he's I am so very delighted to be here on
:01:27. > :01:53.this week. Michael,
:01:54. > :01:59.what's the name of this show? We're back,
:02:00. > :02:02.squatting like a political bullfrog in the One Show studio,
:02:03. > :02:04.whilst they fumigate our old one. And back in the nick of time,
:02:05. > :02:07.because it's been Who can forget the speech given
:02:08. > :02:16.by the Labour leader, Ed... Who can forget how he dealt with
:02:17. > :02:26.the growing number of thingamabobs arriving in Britain,
:02:27. > :02:28.and detailed his plans for the Last year, he used his conference
:02:29. > :02:38.speech to announce an agenda-setting freeze on energy prices that shook
:02:39. > :02:41.up Westminster, and made This year, Ed chose to announce that
:02:42. > :02:45.he'd met a man called Gareth on Hampstead Heath,
:02:46. > :02:50.who worked for a software company. And people say he doesn't
:02:51. > :02:53.know what he's doing. Speaking of things you'd rather
:02:54. > :02:54.forget, I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two people
:02:55. > :02:58.who bend in the middle if you put Think of them as the iPhone 6
:02:59. > :03:02.and iPhone 6 Plus I speak, of course, of #iffysmiffy,
:03:03. > :03:09.Jacqui "how much" Smith. And #sadmanonatrain, Michael "
:03:10. > :03:24.train tracks of my tears" Portillo. Your moment of the week, Michael. It
:03:25. > :03:29.has been a momentous week, difficult to choose. I will go to David
:03:30. > :03:32.Cameron's statement in Downing Street on Friday following the
:03:33. > :03:35.Scottish referendum result. It was one of those examples of how David
:03:36. > :03:39.Cameron sometimes thinks very fast, the other example being the day he
:03:40. > :03:43.committed to the coalition with the Liberal Democrats. It did change the
:03:44. > :03:48.political weather and has changed the nature of the general election.
:03:49. > :03:50.It will result in a change in the nature of the United Kingdom,
:03:51. > :03:54.possibly almost as large as the change that would have happened if
:03:55. > :03:59.there had been Scottish independence. English votes for
:04:00. > :04:03.English laws. Exactly. That has set the cat amongst the pigeons and none
:04:04. > :04:09.of us knows where it will end up, but it will certainly mean a lot of
:04:10. > :04:14.change. Jacqui, your moment. As one of the several Home Secretaries who
:04:15. > :04:18.tried to get Abu Qatada deported to Jordan, my moment is this week when
:04:19. > :04:21.a court decided there was insufficient evidence to find him
:04:22. > :04:25.guilty of the offences they were trying him for. Quite rightly,
:04:26. > :04:30.Theresa May has a ready been very clear that he will not be returning
:04:31. > :04:33.to the UK, because after all, this was a man described by British
:04:34. > :04:40.courts as extremely dangerous. He provided spiritual suck or two
:04:41. > :04:46.terrorism. So you do not want him back. I certainly do not. You said
:04:47. > :04:50.he would not get a fair trial and it looks as though he has. Frustrating
:04:51. > :04:55.in one way that he has not been found guilty, but his allegation was
:04:56. > :04:58.that he could not get a fair trial and actually, I think Jordan has
:04:59. > :05:02.shown they are perfectly capable of doing that. He is not appealing
:05:03. > :05:05.against the decision? Not this time. The Cabinet discussed plans
:05:06. > :05:08.for air strikes in Iraq today. Parliament will vote
:05:09. > :05:09.on them tomorrow. No, this isn't
:05:10. > :05:11.a This Week repeat from 2003. Britain is once again on the
:05:12. > :05:14.brink of military action in Iraq. Speaking at the UN today,
:05:15. > :05:21.the Prime Minister - David Cameron, that is, not Tony Blair -
:05:22. > :05:24.said "past mistakes" must not be But have we learnt anything
:05:25. > :05:28.from past mistakes, We turned to anti-war
:05:29. > :06:02.MP George Galloway. It is Groundhog Day. 11 years ago,
:06:03. > :06:09.here on the streets of Westminster, millions of us marched against the
:06:10. > :06:13.impending US - UK invasion of Iraq. And tomorrow, in Parliament, we
:06:14. > :06:20.might just be about to do it all again. It doesn't seem to matter to
:06:21. > :06:25.some. 1 million people lost their lives, Iraq was ruined and the
:06:26. > :06:35.principal beneficiary of the Bush-Blair war on Iraq was Al-Qaeda
:06:36. > :06:40.and people like them. This is not about me supporting ISIS. I would be
:06:41. > :06:46.happy if every member of ISIS was lying dead here in this street. It
:06:47. > :06:53.is about how we achieve the defeat of ISIS, not whether they need to be
:06:54. > :06:58.defeated. These sectarian, head chopping, heart beating maniacs have
:06:59. > :07:02.to be defeated, and the one sure way that you will not achieve it is
:07:03. > :07:08.British and American and French bombers and cruise missiles raining
:07:09. > :07:14.down on yet another Arab Muslim country. Not only can many not see
:07:15. > :07:19.the history of the last 11 years, many in this country appear to have
:07:20. > :07:24.forgotten our history, perfidious Albion in the Arab Middle East, over
:07:25. > :07:29.the last century. We need to be strengthening those who are already
:07:30. > :07:33.fighting ISIS, ISIL, Al-Qaeda, call them what you will. We need to
:07:34. > :07:37.strengthen the Kurdish Peshmerga, the governments of Iraq and Syria,
:07:38. > :07:46.and we need to find common ground with Russia, China and Iran. From
:07:47. > :07:50.Lawrence of Arabia to David Cameron, not much difference, really, at
:07:51. > :07:53.least viewed from the Arab street. From their point of view, Britain
:07:54. > :07:58.equals treachery, invasion and occupation. That is why tomorrow in
:07:59. > :08:06.Parliament I will be voting against war in Iraq. Again.
:08:07. > :08:08.And from the back streets of Westminster to
:08:09. > :08:10.our own little back street here in the heart of central London,
:08:11. > :08:22.Does it make no difference that this time Iraq has asked for help from
:08:23. > :08:35.the US, its Arab allies and so on? It does make a difference. It makes
:08:36. > :08:40.it legal, where the bombing in Syria right now is illegal. But it doesn't
:08:41. > :08:44.change the other issues I raised. It is indiscriminate. You cannot
:08:45. > :08:47.believe anyone who tells you about precision targeting, bombing,
:08:48. > :08:51.weapons and so on. It will kill a lot of civilians, women and
:08:52. > :08:55.children. And when they are dragged out of the rubble, it will do the
:08:56. > :09:00.third thing, it will be counter-productive. It will
:09:01. > :09:05.strengthen the fanatics and strengthen their appeal across the
:09:06. > :09:12.1.7 billion Sunni Muslims in the world, including those here. What do
:09:13. > :09:17.you say to that? The first thing is that even without us having taken
:09:18. > :09:22.action, it is clear that those within ISIS are already committing
:09:23. > :09:24.barbaric acts. So I don't necessarily believe that it is a
:09:25. > :09:29.grievance that causes that to happen. It is an Islamist ideology
:09:30. > :09:36.which causes that to happen and needs to be addressed. But our
:09:37. > :09:41.barbaric acts, as they will present them, will replace the barbaric acts
:09:42. > :09:45.that they are carrying out, I think that is his point. I disagree. Point
:09:46. > :09:51.I do agree with is that this needs to be something where those in the
:09:52. > :09:56.region are engaged. They are clearly engaged in the military action. They
:09:57. > :10:00.are asking, in the case of Iraq, for our support with air strikes. I have
:10:01. > :10:04.worked with Iraqi parliamentarians, I have worked in Jordan and other
:10:05. > :10:08.parts of that area, and it strikes me that it is not contradictory to
:10:09. > :10:12.want to both support the development of democratic government and to
:10:13. > :10:16.support with military force where necessary and where asked, in order
:10:17. > :10:20.to defeat something which is putting those fledgling governments at
:10:21. > :10:26.significant risk. Let me put a point to Michael. We are late to the
:10:27. > :10:30.theatre on this. Our military contribution will be insignificant,
:10:31. > :10:35.the Arab allies are more important and we are half-hearted about it.
:10:36. > :10:40.Why are we bothering? Let me go back to what George said. I think one
:10:41. > :10:44.must not speak with any jingoism about this and quite a lot of
:10:45. > :10:48.humility. I accept what George says, that we are in the position we are
:10:49. > :10:55.in in Iraq partly because we went to war in 2003. But I think, although
:10:56. > :10:58.George is right to claim some expertise in the subject and write
:10:59. > :11:02.to imply a lack of expertise in London about the Middle East, there
:11:03. > :11:07.is expertise in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iraq and the UAE, and
:11:08. > :11:12.Bahrain, all of whom, I think, are involved in this operation. That, I
:11:13. > :11:16.find persuasive. Those countries, surely, can make the George argument
:11:17. > :11:21.if they care to, but they do not. They make an opposite argument,
:11:22. > :11:25.saying they want our help now. They do indeed intend to fight this enemy
:11:26. > :11:31.on the ground, they are fighting the enemy on the ground but they want us
:11:32. > :11:33.to help from the air. All of those countries you mention are, of
:11:34. > :11:41.course, dictatorships, to whom freedom and liberty is an alien
:11:42. > :11:45.concept. Jordan is not a dictatorship. Jordan is a royal,
:11:46. > :11:51.absolute monarchy dictatorship. I am sorry, you have not spent enough
:11:52. > :11:57.time there. The dictatorships that Michael mentioned are not speaking
:11:58. > :12:00.for their people. Much of the support for ISIL comes from
:12:01. > :12:04.countries like Saudi Arabia, much of the money in the beginning. And
:12:05. > :12:07.these countries that you mention, several of them, are up to their
:12:08. > :12:12.neck in the blood in the region in the first place. Thirdly, I am not
:12:13. > :12:17.sure they are involved. I haven't seen any pictures of any Saudi
:12:18. > :12:21.aircraft bombing Syria or Iraq. I haven't seen their livery anywhere.
:12:22. > :12:25.They are on the paper, on the masthead, but I don't think they are
:12:26. > :12:30.a significant military part. I do not think they would even claim to
:12:31. > :12:35.be. But Saudi Arabia has 700 warplanes. 700. We should know, we
:12:36. > :12:42.sold them that many. You probably sold them many of them. Why can't
:12:43. > :12:47.they do this job? That is a good question. Turkey is a NATO member
:12:48. > :12:52.with a powerful army. Iran has a powerful army. If they were really
:12:53. > :12:56.committed, they would not need us. They have the hardware. They have
:12:57. > :13:01.the hardware but it is useless unless you know how to use it and
:13:02. > :13:07.that is partly about pilot training. Saudi pilots are trained in the UK.
:13:08. > :13:11.It is partly about intelligence. I do not know their capability and am
:13:12. > :13:14.in no position to assess that, but I do think anyone would claim they
:13:15. > :13:20.have the expertise the Americans have, or reason the British. I come
:13:21. > :13:26.back to the point I made to Michael, why are we bothering? Our military
:13:27. > :13:31.contribution is insignificant. They do not need us. We are making it
:13:32. > :13:37.more, dictated by saying we will do Iraq but not Syria. There is some
:13:38. > :13:42.symbolism for the Americans. The French are there already. Why do
:13:43. > :13:46.need need to be there? For principled and pragmatic reasons.
:13:47. > :13:49.The principle being, I am an internationalist and I believe when
:13:50. > :13:53.people call for your assistance in fighting the barbarism we are seeing
:13:54. > :13:57.from ISIL, you should come to their assistance to help them.
:13:58. > :14:01.Pragmatically, there is some evidence that those who have been
:14:02. > :14:06.radicalised and in fact who have carried out hideous acts in Iraq and
:14:07. > :14:09.Syria, were they to return to the UK, were they to want to plot
:14:10. > :14:14.against the UK, they would be a threat to our national interest. Are
:14:15. > :14:21.they less likely to do so if we bomb them? These people were encouraged
:14:22. > :14:25.to go and fight in Syria by Western policy right at the beginning of
:14:26. > :14:30.this conflict. It was an insane policy, as I tried to point out at
:14:31. > :14:34.the time. All these people would be all dressed up with nowhere to go
:14:35. > :14:38.except back home, with all the skills, terrorist skills that they
:14:39. > :14:41.acquired in that conflict. The problem for both Michael and Jacqui
:14:42. > :14:45.is that the public have heard all this before. These were the reasons
:14:46. > :14:50.we were told we should invade and occupy Iraq in the first place, and
:14:51. > :14:55.it didn't work then. Why should we believe it will work now? Terrorism
:14:56. > :15:00.Act flourished, cascaded everywhere in the world as a result of the
:15:01. > :15:05.first Iraq war, the second, as it happened. Dame Manningham Buller
:15:06. > :15:11.warned us in advance of the war that it would be the case. She was the
:15:12. > :15:13.head of MI5. She said the risk of terrorism in Britain would be
:15:14. > :15:17.greater if we invade and attack Iraq.
:15:18. > :15:25.We are not to blame for violent Islamism. 9/11 happened before we
:15:26. > :15:30.went into Afghanistan. I think that try to somehow suggest, I was glad
:15:31. > :15:36.to see your condemnation in the film but what you now appear to be doing
:15:37. > :15:42.is shifting responsibility for barb rim, that is the responsibility of
:15:43. > :15:49.Isil somehow on to us. This is not about us... George leaves out sense
:15:50. > :15:53.of urgency. Isil has made tremendous advances, taking over much of Syria
:15:54. > :15:57.an Iraq. The Iraqi government is alarmed about that. The other powers
:15:58. > :16:01.in the region, are, to say the least of it, alarmed about that. This is
:16:02. > :16:06.not just about considering whether or not a bit of bombing is going to
:16:07. > :16:11.make them pore likely to attack us or make them more militant. It is
:16:12. > :16:19.also about to arrest a deteriorating situation.
:16:20. > :16:25.Let me pick up on that. In New York, thetimes, they pointed out after six
:16:26. > :16:30.weeks of American air rads in Iraq, not Syria, Isil or ISIS, has not
:16:31. > :16:36.given up a single bit of ground. They are still there. Indeed,
:16:37. > :16:41.yesterday they took over an Iraqi Army camp, to miles from Baghdad. So
:16:42. > :16:48.what is the air power going to do? Well, air power can kill a lot of
:16:49. > :16:52.people and destroy equipment. It can destroy command centres. It must be
:16:53. > :16:56.accompanied by an operation on the ground. George is right, that
:16:57. > :17:02.operation should be conducted by the local powers.
:17:03. > :17:07.The Saudis and the UAE will not commit troops? No, they are not.
:17:08. > :17:13.They want to us do it for them. Even though they are in part responsible
:17:14. > :17:18.for this problem. But I am in no doubt at all about your
:17:19. > :17:22.responsibility in this, and 2 million of us on the streets of
:17:23. > :17:27.London told you so at the time, Jacqui Smith. For you now to wash
:17:28. > :17:33.your hands of your share of the responsibility, I'm afraid that is a
:17:34. > :17:37.spot that will not wash out. Awful the perfumes of aArabia, will not
:17:38. > :17:41.ex-pong. And your poetry, George, does not
:17:42. > :17:47.prevent people from being murdered and massacred in Iraq and Syria. You
:17:48. > :17:51.killed 1 million people in Iraq. You killed 1 million people in Iraq. It
:17:52. > :17:55.is incredible you have the brass neck to be sitting here now urging
:17:56. > :18:00.another Iraq war. George, if I were in Parliament, I
:18:01. > :18:03.would be there tomorrow living up to my responsibility to answer the call
:18:04. > :18:06.of the Iraqi government and people to help to support them. The fact
:18:07. > :18:11.you are not is something that you will have to live with.
:18:12. > :18:16.A final question, George. If not bombing, if not intervention, how do
:18:17. > :18:21.we deal with this cancer? Give Iraq the weapons it has paid for but have
:18:22. > :18:28.not been delivered. Strengthen the Peshmerga. Strengthen the
:18:29. > :18:32.governments of Iraq and Syria and ask Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Iran to
:18:33. > :18:37.fight this battle. It is their battle, not ours.
:18:38. > :18:43.It is late. Alex Salmond's dream of an independent Scotland late. But
:18:44. > :18:46.don't activate the Babestation subscription yet, because winning in
:18:47. > :18:50.the wings, Stephen K Amos is here to talk about the politics of sticking
:18:51. > :18:57.to the script. And now that we are back on air, let the miss isry, the
:18:58. > :19:04.ignorance and the sheer bile begin on the Twitter, the Fleecebook but
:19:05. > :19:09.no more the interweb, "no", Gordon Brown has decreed it must be
:19:10. > :19:15.henceforth called the Web Sphere? I kid you not. Just Google his speech
:19:16. > :19:19.in Dunfermline last Saturday. No sooner was the Scottish referendum
:19:20. > :19:24.over, the Labour Party Conference started with a bang in Manchester,
:19:25. > :19:29.or more like a pop, a fizzle. There was Ed Miliband's party
:19:30. > :19:36.tricks, that went well. He spoke of all of the interesting people he met
:19:37. > :19:42.when he roamed of the Westminster bubble, as far as Hampstead Heath.
:19:43. > :19:45.Interestingly, all of the people he met, spoke Milibandese. He spoke
:19:46. > :19:50.about the ruin that is Britain today. Nobody mentioned the,
:19:51. > :19:55.immigration or welfare. That explains why he forgot to mention
:19:56. > :19:59.them. Any way, here is the Observer's Andrew Rawnsley out for a
:20:00. > :20:09.bit of a stroll in the foot steps of Ed.
:20:10. > :20:14.MUSIC: Parklife.
:20:15. > :20:19.The other day I was in the park, this young guy called Ed came over.
:20:20. > :20:24.He said he was on his way to a job interview. He was worried he would
:20:25. > :20:27.not get it. Well, I said, your task at your
:20:28. > :20:31.conference is to convince people that you are up to being the Prime
:20:32. > :20:35.Minister and to get them excited about the idea of a Labour Party
:20:36. > :20:38.Government. It wouldn't be a bad idea to look at how Tony Blair
:20:39. > :20:43.pulled it off. In his last conference speech, before he won a
:20:44. > :20:54.landslide in 1997. Labour has come home to you, so come
:20:55. > :20:58.home to us. Labour's coming home! Oh, no, said Ed, just because Tony
:20:59. > :21:04.Blair won three elections in a row, why should I want to copy him? My
:21:05. > :21:08.speech is about chance conversations with random people I have bumped
:21:09. > :21:11.into on Hampstead Heath. We have to understand what people
:21:12. > :21:16.are saying to us across the United Kingdom. I think across the country,
:21:17. > :21:20.there are a silent majority who wanted our country to endure but are
:21:21. > :21:26.telling us things must change. They come from every walk of life. Like a
:21:27. > :21:32.young woman who works in a pub near where I live... Yeah, because you
:21:33. > :21:38.are just an ordinary bloke who likes a pint. Are you sure about this, Ed?
:21:39. > :21:45.Quoting encounterparters with voters is a device overused by politicians.
:21:46. > :21:48.You will be mocked by it, especially if you only meet people who agree
:21:49. > :21:52.with you. Like Gareth, high up in a software
:21:53. > :21:57.company. With a five-year-old daughter, earning a decent wage, he
:21:58. > :22:02.cannot afford to by himself a home for himself and family. Priced out
:22:03. > :22:06.by the rich. Hi, guise, any of you met a
:22:07. > :22:12.politician in this park? No. Look, Ed, this speech must be special.
:22:13. > :22:15.Your conference is fighting for attention amidst the fallout from
:22:16. > :22:19.the Scottish referendum and military action against Isil. People will
:22:20. > :22:23.want to hear something authoritative.
:22:24. > :22:27.I met somebody called Elizabeth the other day, where is she? She is
:22:28. > :22:33.here. Elizabeth, why not stand up for a second. Elizabeth is an
:22:34. > :22:38.apprentice... Ed, I hear you are planning to make the speech without
:22:39. > :22:45.an autocue. Frankly, that worries me it is risky at such a crucial event.
:22:46. > :22:50.Would it not look more prime material to be at a lecturn. Then
:22:51. > :22:55.watch out for ambitious colleagues, keen to show that they can arouse
:22:56. > :22:59.the activists by telling them what they want it hear.
:23:00. > :23:04.With will free the NHS from Cameron's market and repeal his
:23:05. > :23:09.toxic health and social care act if it is the first thing that we do.
:23:10. > :23:15.Ed shook his head, don't worry, he said. He was the man with the plan.
:23:16. > :23:20.A ten-year plan. And he was good at remembering stuff.
:23:21. > :23:24.Earlier, I mention the Gareth who works at a software company. Worried
:23:25. > :23:30.about his daughter and the future. I met his colleagues as well... OK,
:23:31. > :23:35.Ed, between talking about Gareth's life story, people will expect to
:23:36. > :23:42.hear how you deal with the deficit. I mentioned earlier on I spent a
:23:43. > :23:48.couple of days at a hospital in Watford. I met an amazing man called
:23:49. > :23:54.Colin. I will always remember my conversations with him.
:23:55. > :24:00.You and he agreed that the NHS is great and you need more money. The
:24:01. > :24:06.deficit, Ed, you have to talk about it.
:24:07. > :24:10.The next Labour Party will get the deficit down.
:24:11. > :24:14.Look, it will be odd if you don't say something about the deficit. The
:24:15. > :24:21.Tories and their newspapers will lacerate if you don't. Promise, you
:24:22. > :24:26.will not forget... Together. The deficit, Ed, the deficit?
:24:27. > :24:34.Together... The deficit, Ed, you promised you would not forget!
:24:35. > :24:40.Together, we can! You know, I was in the park the other day and this guy
:24:41. > :24:44.came over, his name was voter. Andrew, he said, I never believe a
:24:45. > :24:49.word they say at their party conferences. Funny isn't it, how our
:24:50. > :24:59.politicians never seem to meet anyone like that.
:25:00. > :25:03.Andrew Rawnsley, cruising the Heath! I'll just let that sink in. Miranda
:25:04. > :25:08.is back with Damian McBride. Welcome to the programme. How do you sum up
:25:09. > :25:13.Ed's week? Not the best. He has had better. He is coming to the
:25:14. > :25:16.conference under more pressure before and delivered a better
:25:17. > :25:21.performance. Maybe a bit of complacency this time.
:25:22. > :25:26.He set the weather with the price freeze and people remember the
:25:27. > :25:30.predator/producer speech. He had a record of doing it.
:25:31. > :25:35.He has done it in that way and done it well. But if you are going to do
:25:36. > :25:39.it, you cannot afford to make mistakes.
:25:40. > :25:45.Was it third time lucky? We are seven months between the election,
:25:46. > :25:49.to give up the party trick, look Prime Ministerial? I think in
:25:50. > :25:55.retrospect he should have done that. He was like a groom at the wedding
:25:56. > :25:57.forgetting to mention the mother of the bride.
:25:58. > :26:01.That bad. It was a catastrophe.
:26:02. > :26:06.Not the ideal preelection conference? No. I agree with Damian.
:26:07. > :26:11.There were many lining up, ready to have a go.
:26:12. > :26:17.It would have been better had he not handed out the sticks for people to
:26:18. > :26:23.beat him with. But given he was outlining a plan, with I think was a
:26:24. > :26:27.good plan it would have been legitimate to talk from a script.
:26:28. > :26:31.But the important thing, dare I say it, that will remain after we forget
:26:32. > :26:36.about that is what he was talking about. I think that there will be
:26:37. > :26:40.many who will go away from the conference, wishing that the speech
:26:41. > :26:46.had gone better but know that there is lots to talk about on the
:26:47. > :26:51.doorstep. The minimum, the NHS, young people getting apresencises.
:26:52. > :26:57.But it was a speech designed ah to the core vote. Not designed to the
:26:58. > :27:02.wider electorate? He has decided on a strategy. That was a speech that
:27:03. > :27:06.delivered on that strategy. The party faithful love the bits
:27:07. > :27:14.about the NHS. But did it go beyond that? Does Labour feel like a party
:27:15. > :27:19.on the brink of power? I do believe that Labour will win next May.
:27:20. > :27:23.Does it feel like a party on the brink of power? Yes, I think that
:27:24. > :27:28.they will win. It did not feel like it then.
:27:29. > :27:34.I was in the party conference in '92. That was full of buzz.
:27:35. > :27:38.I was at 91, that was full of buzz. '96 was full of buzz.
:27:39. > :27:45.That's what I mean. But then we failed. Perhaps people from feeling
:27:46. > :27:51.a bit tired from coming back from Scotland and two, not necessarily
:27:52. > :28:00.feeling taken for granted. No many of them had been to
:28:01. > :28:04.Scotland! Dugs are Labour rates so highly on the NHS issue. They have,
:28:05. > :28:10.the NHS is really important. They get the NHS vote. Where they don't
:28:11. > :28:16.get the vote is on the economy, where they rate badly. Would it is
:28:17. > :28:20.made more sense to try to bolster the credentials on the economy? Yes,
:28:21. > :28:25.and that is what Ed Balls was trying to do. He made a tough speech in
:28:26. > :28:28.which he talked about the deficit being brought down. There is a
:28:29. > :28:33.trick. The deficit that the Labour talks about is different from the
:28:34. > :28:38.one that the coalition talks about. But we have forgotten Saturday,
:28:39. > :28:44.Sunday, Monday. That was dominated by Labour's failure to reply to the
:28:45. > :28:48.Conservative challenge of English votes for English laws. I think that
:28:49. > :28:56.unnerved the Labour Party. They did not have a good answer. It got them
:28:57. > :28:59.off ah to a bad start. And it is important to remember that nobody
:29:00. > :29:04.outside of the hall has seen that speech. All that people are left
:29:05. > :29:09.with is the impression of what the newspapers carried on the speech. I
:29:10. > :29:14.was amazed with the Today programme. I heard something that I don't
:29:15. > :29:19.normally hear from the BBC, that they were saying that all newspapers
:29:20. > :29:25.condemn the Labour Conference as a catastrophe. They are normally
:29:26. > :29:29.even-handed. I have never heard that.
:29:30. > :29:34.Are we making a fuss of it? I am not a fan of set pieces. As Michael
:29:35. > :29:39.says, the great British public will see a clip and make their mind up.
:29:40. > :29:43.But it was not just the manner of the speech, that was wrong with it.
:29:44. > :29:48.I think that the substance was a disaster as well. Not just the
:29:49. > :29:53.forgetting the deficit, forgetting to mention immigration, a big issue
:29:54. > :30:00.for Labour as they are under threat from UKIP in certain seats. But the
:30:01. > :30:03.ten-year plan was in an awful way, both underambitious and uninspiring
:30:04. > :30:08.and just not credible. Every young person that does not go
:30:09. > :30:14.to university will have an apprenticeship. Every government
:30:15. > :30:18.trying to revolutionise vocational training and solve the skills
:30:19. > :30:23.problems and does not manage to do it, so I think that the matter of
:30:24. > :30:28.substance, the policies were wrong. The NHS is hugely important. It is
:30:29. > :30:31.under trouble at the moment. Labour thinks of itself as the guardian of
:30:32. > :30:34.the NHS. But is it right to put the NHS at
:30:35. > :30:48.the centre of the election strategy? Labour have had a lead on the NHS
:30:49. > :30:54.but no dividing line from the Tories. They have established a
:30:55. > :30:59.difference on spending now. That is 2.5 billion that the Tories will not
:31:00. > :31:04.commit to because they are not prepared to introduce a mansion tax
:31:05. > :31:08.rate tax on hedge funds is. But I think the public knows a bit about
:31:09. > :31:11.the extent of National Health Service problems and quite a lot
:31:12. > :31:15.about the deficit. And I don't think they will think that a little bit of
:31:16. > :31:20.money raised from people with expensive houses will solve the
:31:21. > :31:26.problem. I really think Miliband is overestimated the gullibility of the
:31:27. > :31:31.public on that. But people do care about the NHS. Is he being badly
:31:32. > :31:36.advised? I don't think so. Coming into a harsh winter, any people will
:31:37. > :31:41.think that 2.5 billion will make a big difference to the NHS. They are
:31:42. > :31:45.narrowing down to the core vote. That is where the strategy is. This
:31:46. > :31:50.probably reflects the difference between 91 and 96. This party knows
:31:51. > :31:55.it will be in a fight, in the same way as in Scotland. It will be tooth
:31:56. > :31:59.and nail right to the end, and that is where the Labour Party is at the
:32:00. > :32:03.moment. Just to draw back and look down on this, the parties are
:32:04. > :32:08.scoring something like 30% each, Conservative and Labour. In each
:32:09. > :32:13.case, that is the most miserable score. This is a deplorable state of
:32:14. > :32:16.affairs for either party. The idea that the two leading parties have
:32:17. > :32:22.60% of the vote between them is really depressing. But if it was so
:32:23. > :32:28.that they both got 30% at the next election, Labour would win and would
:32:29. > :32:32.be the next government. Our democracy is in a very poor state
:32:33. > :32:38.when a party that gets 30% will form the government. And when you think
:32:39. > :32:43.the turnout will probably be 60%, so 30% of 60%, quite a small fraction
:32:44. > :32:49.would elect the next government. Not quite as depressing as being a Lib
:32:50. > :32:55.Dem leader, Miranda. Well, we shall see. The Greens are doing
:32:56. > :33:02.interesting things and may cause the Lib Dems problems in some seats. It
:33:03. > :33:05.ought to be good news, this historic opportunity to be a permanent
:33:06. > :33:10.kingmaker when the larger parties can't ever get a stonking majority
:33:11. > :33:14.again. It should be a fantastic opportunity but I think the Lib Dems
:33:15. > :33:18.are so battle scarred by the coalition experience that they are
:33:19. > :33:27.struggling to find their way through the next few months. Labour, as a
:33:28. > :33:34.party, is popular. Labour rates much better than Mr Miliband. The problem
:33:35. > :33:38.is his personal ratings. So if you paint a picture of Britain as grim
:33:39. > :33:42.and miserable as he did in his speech, which means it needs
:33:43. > :33:47.incredible change and huge leadership, why would you turn to Mr
:33:48. > :33:54.Miliband? I think you might turn to the policies. You are right that the
:33:55. > :33:59.party, and presumably the policies that the party is beginning to
:34:00. > :34:03.articulate more clearly, is winning, albeit not an enormous
:34:04. > :34:07.amount of support, but more support than the party it will be up against
:34:08. > :34:11.in the general election. Therefore, if you are going to be six at four
:34:12. > :34:15.in that very tight election, you are going to need to focus on the things
:34:16. > :34:20.that British people will listen to you about. That is the reason for
:34:21. > :34:25.the NHS and for some policies I think will be popular, like the
:34:26. > :34:30.minimum wage and apprenticeships. The Labour Party has just had the
:34:31. > :34:33.most... I know the referendum in Scotland was won by the no vote but
:34:34. > :34:36.it was traumatic for the Labour Party, watching all these people who
:34:37. > :34:42.had always voted Labour going and voting yes. Labour must be deeply
:34:43. > :34:46.worried about its heartland, and not only in Scotland, actually, because
:34:47. > :34:51.Ed Miliband is not a character who appeals to basic caller Labour
:34:52. > :34:58.voters. Unless you are on Hampstead Heath. Can he still win? Yes, but I
:34:59. > :35:02.think, for the reason Michael says, there needs to be a broader team
:35:03. > :35:06.representing labour. Get Andy Burnham and Ed Balls campaigning in
:35:07. > :35:12.the North. Play your star players where they can have the most impact.
:35:13. > :35:16.Is he right to stick with the core strategy? Yes, but also making sure
:35:17. > :35:19.the defecting Lib Dems stay in the red column. We will see what
:35:20. > :35:25.happens. Thank you, both. Because the speech he forgot to
:35:26. > :35:29.give had some brilliant lines. "We shall fight them on the beaches
:35:30. > :35:32.of the bathing ponds on "Ask not what your country can do
:35:33. > :35:37.for Gareth, who I met on Hampstead Heath of a night, ask what
:35:38. > :35:40.Gareth can do for your country". And, "I have a dream,
:35:41. > :35:44.that I met someone called Elizabeth So, Elizabeth is an
:35:45. > :35:49.auto-electrician apprentice. Nope, I've no idea what
:35:50. > :35:51.that means either. But let's have a round
:35:52. > :35:53.of applause for her and So that's why we've decided to put
:35:54. > :36:17.sticking to the script Remembering your lines can be
:36:18. > :36:22.tough. Stubborn little things can slip your mind, like Britain's
:36:23. > :36:25.budget deficit or its increasing level of immigration. Going off
:36:26. > :36:28.script is one thing but is there any excuse for Ed Miliband forgetting to
:36:29. > :36:34.mention them in his party conference speech? Barack Obama did not muddle
:36:35. > :36:40.his words at the UN. Calling for action against IS, he stuck to a
:36:41. > :36:45.preprepared script, relying, as he always does, on the fake spontaneity
:36:46. > :36:51.a teleprompter provides. The cat did not have David Cameron's tongue this
:36:52. > :36:57.week. He posted that he had tickled the Queen's time when he told her
:36:58. > :37:01.the Scottish referendum result. He has gone back to following the
:37:02. > :37:06.script now and will make a grovelling apology the next time he
:37:07. > :37:12.sees her. Unlike a report on the local Alaskan news, who is not
:37:13. > :37:17.apologising for anything. She tore up the script this week and revealed
:37:18. > :37:22.her support for the legalisation of marijuana live on-air, leaving a
:37:23. > :37:32.trail of smoke behind her. And as for this job, well, not that I have
:37:33. > :37:41.a choice, but I quit. And while we apologise for that...
:37:42. > :37:47.That is how we often feel on this programme. We are joined by Stephen
:37:48. > :37:53.K Amos. Welcome. When you up, do you follow a script do you improvise on
:37:54. > :37:58.the way? I have a script in my head. I know the show, because I try it
:37:59. > :38:03.out for a long time, six or seven weeks before I do the show. But I
:38:04. > :38:09.also leave enough time to be able to be in the moment and react to what
:38:10. > :38:13.is happening. If you have a prepared spine and you leave it, it can be
:38:14. > :38:18.tricky to find your way back. Yes, but that is why many stand-ups have
:38:19. > :38:22.little tricks. For example lots of stand-ups right bullet points on
:38:23. > :38:25.their hand. That is what I would have suggested to Ed Miliband. He
:38:26. > :38:30.should have been forthright enough to have bullet points. Or like me
:38:31. > :38:35.today, have bits of paper and you can have a look down. All like an
:38:36. > :38:42.actor, have a prompter in the wings reminding you to carry on. It is a
:38:43. > :38:46.lot of effort to memorise something for 80 minutes. It is a lot of
:38:47. > :38:50.effort but many stand-ups do a chauffeur to ours. The problem was
:38:51. > :38:56.that he has this thing, this massive deal, this conference to deliver and
:38:57. > :39:02.not long enough to run it in. And he is only doing it once, whereas you
:39:03. > :39:06.get to memorise yours over time. Yes, and find out the nuances, the
:39:07. > :39:12.way to say things and which part of the script the audience will go for.
:39:13. > :39:17.Also, it is about my voice. I have a very commanding sort of voice. The
:39:18. > :39:21.problem with Ed Miliband, what he probably saw last week was Gordon
:39:22. > :39:26.Brown doing his powerful, passionate speech with no notes and he thought,
:39:27. > :39:30.I will do a bit of that. Didn't really work. When you add lib, it
:39:31. > :39:37.can also be when you are at your most powerful, most convincing. But
:39:38. > :39:41.that is for professionals. When Ed Miliband tried to do that by
:39:42. > :39:45.mentioning Elizabeth, Gareth or whatever, it just became the butt of
:39:46. > :39:51.a joke. Yes, because you have to also be there the moment to share
:39:52. > :39:56.the experience. If I randomly talk about somebody we have two imagine,
:39:57. > :40:02.that is a bit creepy. Would he have been better advised, he has done the
:40:03. > :40:06.trick before and we know he can memorise a speech, would he not have
:40:07. > :40:10.been better seven months before the election, for a man whose personal
:40:11. > :40:15.rating is not great, to say, you need to look Prime Minister real,
:40:16. > :40:22.behind Alex turn, looking straight down the camera lens and delivering
:40:23. > :40:26.a message. Possibly, but he was trying to show us and the delegates
:40:27. > :40:30.that he could stand there and deliver something with passion,
:40:31. > :40:35.energy off the top of his head. It didn't quite work. For me, he should
:40:36. > :40:40.maybe have had an autocue, bullet points to remind him. I thought he
:40:41. > :40:45.was getting quite a few applause breaks, so maybe he was saving that
:40:46. > :40:51.bit for the end. He got massive applause on the NHS part when he got
:40:52. > :40:57.there. I think you are not quite right. Politicians speak on the
:40:58. > :41:01.stump all the time. They are always creating little capsules of speech
:41:02. > :41:04.in their mind. When it comes to a conference speech, they are putting
:41:05. > :41:09.together a little capsules they have again. So it is not such an effort
:41:10. > :41:12.to learn and 80 minute speech because there are lots of little
:41:13. > :41:18.bits that you have delivered 100 times before. The second thing is
:41:19. > :41:23.that it does give you a tremendous freedom. And if you are really good
:41:24. > :41:29.at it you can expand upon a point, or you can drop a point if you think
:41:30. > :41:32.it is not going down very well. The converse situation, that great
:41:33. > :41:36.professional, Tony Blair, when he talked to the Women's Institute and
:41:37. > :41:39.they started to hiss, and you could see him looking through. He had
:41:40. > :41:44.another ten pages to read and no way of dumping the ten pages. The big
:41:45. > :41:48.mistake that Ed Miliband made was to go and do something which was, as it
:41:49. > :41:55.were, off-the-cuff, without a script, and then release the script.
:41:56. > :41:59.Then, you are in trouble. It was when he released the script that we
:42:00. > :42:03.realised he had missed out important things like the deficit, the economy
:42:04. > :42:09.and immigration. What would you have advised? At this point, given that
:42:10. > :42:13.he was talking about a plan, I would have advised him to do it with a
:42:14. > :42:18.script and a podium. But going back to what Michael said, what he
:42:19. > :42:21.thought he was trying to do, with some justification, was to not be a
:42:22. > :42:26.traditional politician delivering a set piece speech, but to say, I know
:42:27. > :42:32.what is happening to people. Here are some examples of people whose
:42:33. > :42:36.situation I understand. I am not just delivering a speech, I am
:42:37. > :42:40.talking to you. That would have worked well had it actually been
:42:41. > :42:42.what he was doing, but the publication of the script
:42:43. > :42:48.demonstrated that it was not. You have to do one or the other. 80
:42:49. > :42:55.minutes was too long. Michael, I disagree. If I saw a politician
:42:56. > :42:59.regurgitating the bits I had seen him do before, that would not
:43:00. > :43:02.encourage me. If I saw you speaking from your heart and passionately
:43:03. > :43:08.about stuff you believe in, I might take you seriously. What are you
:43:09. > :43:13.doing? We go on tour from next week, all over the UK. It is called
:43:14. > :43:16.welcome to my world, and it is scripted.
:43:17. > :43:21.But not for us and not for Ed Miliband, who really should get
:43:22. > :43:23.some shut-eye and stop thinking about what might've been.
:43:24. > :43:24.Because according to the Labour leader,
:43:25. > :43:27."David Cameron doesn't lie awake at night thinking about Gareth".
:43:28. > :43:30.At least, we think that's what he said.
:43:31. > :44:01.# Memories, like the corners of my mind
:44:02. > :44:05.# Misty water coloured memories # Of the way we were.