:00:00. > :00:09.Tonight on This Week, join us for the Autumn Statement Watch, as we
:00:10. > :00:12.study interesting and unseen political behaviour
:00:13. > :00:20.Rutting politicians, rather than stags, in the House
:00:21. > :00:25.of Commons, as Chancellor George Osborne does a U-turn or two.
:00:26. > :00:27.And we spot some unseasonal behaviour from
:00:28. > :00:33.The BBC's Business Editor, Kamal Ahmed,
:00:34. > :00:39.Is George Osborne King of the Jungle and did he imagine
:00:40. > :00:43.in his wildest dreams that the main attack on him by the
:00:44. > :00:52.opposition would be a not wildly funny joke about Chairman Mao?
:00:53. > :00:56.The Prime Minister wants us to come out of military hibernation as
:00:57. > :01:00.he makes the case for air strikes against Islamic State in Syria.
:01:01. > :01:04.Peace campaigner and head of CND, Kate Hudson, thinks bombing is
:01:05. > :01:11.As the evenings draw in, Jeremy Corbyn's bringing the warmth
:01:12. > :01:22.of common-sense to Parliament on air strikes, Trident and austerity.
:01:23. > :01:24.And just as the seasons change over time,
:01:25. > :01:36.Joining us to discuss, Liverpudlian Bollywood star, Amy Jackson.
:01:37. > :01:41.Chaotic? Unusual clothing? Languages you don't understand? It is hard
:01:42. > :01:45.work being on this show! This Week's natural habitat,
:01:46. > :01:48.curled up on the sofa with And yes, it is still
:01:49. > :02:00.officially Autumn - just. A week in which Boy George executed
:02:01. > :02:19.This Week. A week in which Boy George executed
:02:20. > :02:24.a U-turn on tax credits. Shadow Chancellor John McDonald,
:02:25. > :02:26.who earlier this week, said "We are going to destroy Osborne's
:02:27. > :02:30.credibility", then proceeded to almost destroy his own, by telling a
:02:31. > :02:32.cracking joke about Chinese inward investment levels using
:02:33. > :02:53.Chairman Mao's Little Red Book Tom Watson looked like he had
:02:54. > :03:07.swallowed a wasp. Lenin's "What is to be done?"
:03:08. > :03:10.A pile that no doubt includes Enver Hoaxha's Albanian bonkbuster,
:03:11. > :03:12.political pot-boiler, Uzbekistan On The Threshold of The
:03:13. > :03:18.21st Century, Challenges to Stability and Progress.
:03:19. > :03:19.Speaking of judging a book by its cover, I'm joined on the sofa
:03:20. > :03:21.Think of them as the Lady Colin and Lady Shave
:03:22. > :03:24.I speak of course, of #thelamminator David Lammy.
:03:25. > :03:27.And #sadmanonatrain Michael 'choo choo' Portillo.
:03:28. > :03:34.Welcome to you both. David, your moment of the week? Were it not for
:03:35. > :03:40.Syria, the story we would be talking about today is the fact that net
:03:41. > :03:44.migration is up 336,000, that is my story because why did George Osborne
:03:45. > :03:51.get those ?27 billion of receipts? Hidden in the OBR, the secret,
:03:52. > :03:55.because of migration, all those immigrants coming in and paying
:03:56. > :03:58.their taxes and working. That is the reason because I told you that
:03:59. > :04:02.before I came on air! It is not the only reason. It is significant. No,
:04:03. > :04:08.it is not. It is a reason. There is a cap. They have got a cap, which
:04:09. > :04:13.they haven't met. Haven't met? We are now seeing the truth of it.
:04:14. > :04:19.Migrants come and they contribute to our economy. Very well. And cuts are
:04:20. > :04:21.reduced as a consequence. Am I briefing you throughout this
:04:22. > :04:26.programme? Let's see. Alright. Fine. What is your moment of the week?
:04:27. > :04:29.Well, it was a busy week with Syria and the Autumn Statement. I suppose
:04:30. > :04:35.I was really shocked when I saw that a Russian jet had been downed by
:04:36. > :04:40.Turkish fighters and for someone with a sense of history, this was
:04:41. > :04:45.the first time that a NATO country had downed a Russian jet since 1953,
:04:46. > :04:48.the date of my birth, therefore I know it to be an extraordinarily
:04:49. > :04:52.long time ago. Through most of my life, if a NATO jet had downed a
:04:53. > :04:58.Russian plane, we would have expected that to be the prelude to a
:04:59. > :05:00.nuclear exchange. I wondered what the consequences would be. Probably
:05:01. > :05:05.in the end, consequences will probably not be very severe. There
:05:06. > :05:11.is a momentum now between NATO and the Russians to do some sort of deal
:05:12. > :05:15.over Syria and this inconvenient fact of the shooting down, it will
:05:16. > :05:20.probably not get in the way of that. It was a hold your breath moment?
:05:21. > :05:24.Yes. It just had that amazing historic resonance. If you ever
:05:25. > :05:27.thought, you know, 20 years ago that you woke up and saw that headline,
:05:28. > :05:30.you were going to be in big trouble. Thank you.
:05:31. > :05:32.Now, the Prime Minister stood before Parliament this morning to
:05:33. > :05:34.make the case for air strikes on Islamic State in Syria.
:05:35. > :05:37.He will not press for a vote unless he's convinced he will win it.
:05:38. > :05:39.Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn has written to his MPs saying he cannot
:05:40. > :05:43.One member of the Shadow Cabinet criticised the Labour leader's
:05:44. > :05:47."ridiculous party games" - and I don't mean the kind Michael has
:05:48. > :06:07.This has sparked furry in parts -- fury in parts of the Labour Party.
:06:08. > :06:11.It seems Mr Corbyn isn't just the Leader of the Opposition, but the
:06:12. > :06:16.Leader of the Opposition to his own Parliamentary Labour Party.
:06:17. > :06:17.But Kate Hudson, head of the CND, thinks Labour MPs need to put up
:06:18. > :06:41.The Chancellor had a cheap shot at Jeremy Corbyn yesterday,
:06:42. > :06:46.claiming that his front bench contributes to comedy.
:06:47. > :06:55.On the contrary, Mr Osborne, Jeremy Corbyn is the serious politician.
:06:56. > :06:58.He's been fairly and squarely elected.
:06:59. > :07:02.He's true to his word and he brings good sense to politics.
:07:03. > :07:10.MPs on the right of Labour need to accept that they
:07:11. > :07:17.They are the minority in the party, not Jeremy Corbyn.
:07:18. > :07:21.They should show some solidarity and open their minds to the democratic
:07:22. > :07:30.With debate raging over bombing Syria and Trident replacement,
:07:31. > :07:35.some of the press headlines about him seem like bad punchlines.
:07:36. > :07:40.Jeremy knows exactly what he's doing, he was right about the war
:07:41. > :07:44.on Iraq and he's much more in step with party members than
:07:45. > :07:56.Most people don't want expensive nuclear weapons
:07:57. > :07:59.and they have fears about military intervention in Syria.
:08:00. > :08:06.We see the tragic consequences of Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya
:08:07. > :08:22.Jeremy Corbyn is asking the questions that need to be asked
:08:23. > :08:25.and he's being put through the wringer for it.
:08:26. > :08:29.Scrutiny in public office is to be welcomed, but there is nothing funny
:08:30. > :08:38.Some on the backbenches should have a little humility.
:08:39. > :08:43.Their policies led to declining support for Labour after 1997.
:08:44. > :08:47.And they lost the last two elections.
:08:48. > :08:58.It may be, as polls this week suggest, that while Jeremy has the
:08:59. > :09:04.support of the party, he still has to win some support from the public.
:09:05. > :09:12.Given a fair chance, I have every confidence that he can do it.
:09:13. > :09:15.And from the Museum of Comedy to our own pack of jokers,
:09:16. > :09:25.Welcome to the programme. The Prime Minister laid out the case for
:09:26. > :09:31.extending British bombing into Syria within a wider strategy. Did you buy
:09:32. > :09:38.it or didn't you? Not entirely. First of all, I could see there is a
:09:39. > :09:40.good reason why we would want to be alongside the Americans, the French
:09:41. > :09:43.and the Russians. There isn't a strong case for saying our
:09:44. > :09:48.participation makes any difference to the number of bombs or the way in
:09:49. > :09:53.which the bombs are delivered. I think most people think that if this
:09:54. > :09:57.job is going to be done, it has to be done thoroughly, that would mean
:09:58. > :10:01.ground forces. There is still quite a big gap in the explanation that's
:10:02. > :10:05.being made. If you were in the Commons and this is going to come up
:10:06. > :10:10.next week, how would you vote? If I were in the common, I would vote for
:10:11. > :10:15.the bombing. I think on the first grounds that allies do have the
:10:16. > :10:18.right to see us alongside. David Lammy, how will you vote? I'll be
:10:19. > :10:26.voting against. I went with an open mind. I'm not a pacifist. I want
:10:27. > :10:30.Isil dealt with. I did not hear a plan that really explained whose
:10:31. > :10:35.side we are on given the Russians are not really on our side, and that
:10:36. > :10:40.the airspace is crowded with the Americans, the French, the Turks all
:10:41. > :10:45.there. I didn't hear a plan for what comes afterwards because this is not
:10:46. > :10:50.like Iraq, with an Iraqi force, and a strong Kurdish minority at it on
:10:51. > :10:54.the ground. I think the third thing for me, which is very important, I
:10:55. > :11:01.think of my own constituency, it is clear when we bombed in Iraq, and we
:11:02. > :11:06.dealt with Al-Qaeda, it led to Isil, it led to a radicalisation amongst
:11:07. > :11:10.some of the youth in that part of the world and I'm not convinced that
:11:11. > :11:14.whilst we might deal with Isil it will not lead to jihadist groups and
:11:15. > :11:19.movements as a consequence of our bombing, so for those reasons, I'm
:11:20. > :11:23.not convinced. How does Jeremy Corbyn, who has made it clear he
:11:24. > :11:28.agrees with David Lammy, how does he carry his Shadow Cabinet, which
:11:29. > :11:32.there seems to be if not a majority, a substantial number of figures who
:11:33. > :11:37.don't agree with Mr Corbyn? I think what Jeremy has to do is exactly
:11:38. > :11:41.what he's doing at the moment. He has to explain why he has problems
:11:42. > :11:44.with the Prime Minister's case, he obviously clearly doesn't feel that
:11:45. > :11:48.David Cameron has made a compelling case. He's set out a series of
:11:49. > :11:52.arguments and questions which are much the same as the Foreign Affairs
:11:53. > :11:55.Select Committee have laid out and he has the right to expect those
:11:56. > :11:59.answers to be made. If they are not made to his satisfaction, then he
:12:00. > :12:05.can't then support the war. I know his position. I understand that. But
:12:06. > :12:09.how does he convince, how do we have a situation where we have
:12:10. > :12:10.how does he convince, how do we have of the party, and the Shadow
:12:11. > :12:16.Chancellor, too, they almost certainly take one view, and leading
:12:17. > :12:20.Secretary take a different view. How does that work? Jeremy
:12:21. > :12:22.Secretary take a different view. How convince them of the case. If he
:12:23. > :12:28.can't convince them of the case, then they will have divergent views.
:12:29. > :12:30.I can't imagine Jeremy will knuckle under and change his view... He
:12:31. > :12:31.I can't imagine Jeremy will knuckle not going to knuckle under,
:12:32. > :12:39.I can't imagine Jeremy will knuckle resolve this? It is extremely
:12:40. > :12:42.unusual that for a vote that is this important, there isn't a whip Labour
:12:43. > :12:48.unusual that for a vote that is this position. Having said that, we
:12:49. > :12:50.unusual that for a vote that is this clear in his views for many years. I
:12:51. > :12:51.understand all of that. clear in his views for many years. I
:12:52. > :12:56.like it is going to be a free clear in his views for many years. I
:12:57. > :12:58.If it is not, doesn't it rip the Labour Party apart? The truth is, as
:12:59. > :13:02.Members of Parliament, and I said this before, you go with an open
:13:03. > :13:06.mind this before, you go with an open
:13:07. > :13:09.conscience. So... That has to be a free vote then. No, you expect in
:13:10. > :13:13.these circumstances that some people will defy the whip. Should there be
:13:14. > :13:17.a free vote? I'd rather that they had a whipped vote on Jeremy
:13:18. > :13:20.Corbyn's position. That is a position which is popular amongst
:13:21. > :13:25.the majority of the party members. It may not be popular amongst all
:13:26. > :13:30.the Shadow Cabinet. We will see how the MPs feel about that. It's an
:13:31. > :13:33.ongoing debate and different positions are being put. Would you
:13:34. > :13:41.rather have that at the price of ripping Labour apart with multiple,
:13:42. > :13:47.the air tonight in Westminster is rife at talk of resignations? There
:13:48. > :13:51.is too much talk about Labour ripping apart. This is an internal
:13:52. > :13:52.party debate where people have changed their minds on this. You
:13:53. > :13:57.can't have a static position and say you can't have a discussion about
:13:58. > :14:00.this because Labour's going to look as though it is split. You have to
:14:01. > :14:05.get the issues out there and discuss them. We are having a discussion,
:14:06. > :14:10.the Shadow Cabinet met this afternoon, they had a discussion. At
:14:11. > :14:13.the end, you have to stop discussing and come to a view.
:14:14. > :14:17.the end, you have to stop discussing reconcile the views of Jeremy Corbyn
:14:18. > :14:19.and Mr McDonnell and major other figures in the Shadow Cabinet?
:14:20. > :14:30.There were divergent views between Well...
:14:31. > :14:35.There were divergent views between Clare Short and Tony Blair on the
:14:36. > :14:43.war in Iraq. The Cabinet came to a collective
:14:44. > :14:48.view in favour of the invasion. What will the collective view be on this?
:14:49. > :14:51.Well, I don't know what the collective view is going to be. I
:14:52. > :14:55.think we are probably going to end up with a free vote. I said it was
:14:56. > :14:59.unusual, but what is unusual in these circumstances is that we have
:15:00. > :15:05.a leader of a major political party who clearly has a pacifist position
:15:06. > :15:08.in relation to these matters. That is honourable in our country's
:15:09. > :15:11.history. I accept that. I would be the last person not to enjoy the
:15:12. > :15:14.embarrassment of the Labour Party but it seems to be the important and
:15:15. > :15:19.serious issue is whether there is going to be enough Labour rebels and
:15:20. > :15:22.a small enough number of Conservative rebels for this to be
:15:23. > :15:24.carried and unless the Government thinks there is going to be a
:15:25. > :15:27.situation like that, the motion will not be put. I hear it said at the
:15:28. > :15:31.moment that the Government is growing in confidence and that I
:15:32. > :15:36.think there is a general expectation that the motion will be put and it
:15:37. > :15:40.will be carried. I don't envy the Government whips. It's difficult
:15:41. > :15:42.enough on your own side, it's extraordinarily difficult to count
:15:43. > :15:46.the other side, particularly when people on the other side have a
:15:47. > :15:49.large number of reasons for not telling the Government what they are
:15:50. > :15:52.thinking of doing. How many on the Labour side will vote for the
:15:53. > :15:55.Government do you think? Do you know what, I think, I don't think David
:15:56. > :16:04.Cameron is very good at putting these cases in Parliament. He's not
:16:05. > :16:10.as persuasive as he could be. How many? I would have said there might
:16:11. > :16:19.be something like 50-60. I wouldn't be surprised if they were. Then Mr
:16:20. > :16:27.Cameron wins. He'll be all right with 50 or 60. I'm not sure whether
:16:28. > :16:31.David is right with 50 or 60, although he's in a better position
:16:32. > :16:35.to know than I am. The number reached a peak immediately after
:16:36. > :16:38.Paris, probably faltered somewhat after the shooting down of the
:16:39. > :16:44.Russian jet which complicates the situation. I do rather agree with
:16:45. > :16:49.David that I'm not sure, given the demands that were made by the Select
:16:50. > :16:51.Committee as to what sort of explanation should be provided, I'm
:16:52. > :16:55.not sure the Prime Minister met the criteria. He basically said, we've
:16:56. > :16:59.got to be in it because the others are in it. This is a great country,
:17:00. > :17:02.we don't just fight because others are fighting, you have got to make
:17:03. > :17:06.the case for what comes afterwards and why in tend the streets of
:17:07. > :17:11.Britain will be safer as a consequence of this and not worse
:17:12. > :17:15.because they'll be -- there'll be further Jihadists on our streets
:17:16. > :17:17.because they felt we bombed them. If you were Prime Minister, you would
:17:18. > :17:20.think it was very important, you would think the Americans have just
:17:21. > :17:23.about reached a position with Britain when they think we are an
:17:24. > :17:29.unreliable allie and you would think that was important. Do you think
:17:30. > :17:34.with, as you read it the direction the Labour Party is going, that
:17:35. > :17:40.within say a year's time, the Labour Party will be unilateralist nuclear
:17:41. > :17:43.disarming party and solidly against foreign military intervention? On
:17:44. > :17:47.the question of Trident replacement, I very much hope that the Labour
:17:48. > :17:56.Party during its review will come to the conclusion that Britain has
:17:57. > :18:01.better ways. I understand that. What I meant was... It's not just a
:18:02. > :18:04.question of CND... But do you think that is the direction in which
:18:05. > :18:09.Labour is going? I think that change is the way in which the country is
:18:10. > :18:13.going. Let me try again, do you believe it's the direction Labour is
:18:14. > :18:17.going in? I think, along with a change in attitudes across the rest
:18:18. > :18:21.of the country, across many parties, I think Labour is likely to go in
:18:22. > :18:25.that direction because it's the only sensible direction to go in if we
:18:26. > :18:29.want to meet the real security needs of the 21st century, so yes, I
:18:30. > :18:30.imagine Labour may well adopt a change in policy.
:18:31. > :18:36.Thank you. Diane Abbott dozing-off
:18:37. > :18:40.during the Prime Minister's Defence But you should stay wide awake
:18:41. > :18:47.and pour yourself another three fingers of Blue
:18:48. > :18:49.Nectar because waiting in the wings, British Bollywood star, actress
:18:50. > :18:52.Amy Jackson is here to tip-toe And don't forget,
:18:53. > :18:57.for those who are particularly thin-skinned, we're still ignoring
:18:58. > :19:01.all your comments on The Twitter, The Fleecebook and Gordon Brown's
:19:02. > :19:03.World Wide Web-sphere. Now, awkward schoolboy, Bullingdon
:19:04. > :19:06.toff, austerity chancellor. It feels like George Osborne's
:19:07. > :19:11.had more makeovers than Madonna. Unveiling his Spending Review
:19:12. > :19:14.yesterday, the man who would be PM was keen to
:19:15. > :19:17.shed his unfashionable cuts to tax Sadly, we're not a very stylish
:19:18. > :19:23.bunch here on This Week. So we turned to the BBC's Business
:19:24. > :19:27.Editor, Kamal Ahmed and sent him This is his well-groomed roundup
:19:28. > :19:45.of the political week. # You're more than a number
:19:46. > :19:49.in my little red book...# Now, I don't know exactly how
:19:50. > :19:54.George Osborne starts his day, it's probably not reading
:19:55. > :19:58.the latest thoughts of Chairman Mao or even going for a wet shave,
:19:59. > :20:02.but we know he's a Chancellor who The country, of course,
:20:03. > :20:14.was braced for cuts. But the Chancellor suddenly lathered
:20:15. > :20:17.up the voters with, what is known in business circles,
:20:18. > :20:21.asurprise on the upside, ratchet up the expectation of cuts
:20:22. > :20:25.and then, when a U-turn comes, The big controversy -
:20:26. > :20:46.Tax Credits for working people It created quite a stink
:20:47. > :20:55.when it was announced in the Budget four short months ago and George
:20:56. > :20:59.Osborne this week decided to do what all brave politicians do when faced
:21:00. > :21:05.with a politically toxic situation. I've had representations that
:21:06. > :21:13.these changes to Tax Credits I've listened to the concerns,
:21:14. > :21:19.I hear and understand them and because I've been able to
:21:20. > :21:22.announce today an improvement in the public finances, the simplest thing
:21:23. > :21:26.to do is not to phase these changes Like a particularly pungent soap,
:21:27. > :21:34.the Chancellor's avoidance strategy then seemed to take on a life
:21:35. > :21:37.of its own. He avoided the Tax Credits bear trap
:21:38. > :21:41.but then with thoughts turning to Paris, he turned to the issue
:21:42. > :21:48.of the UK's security. Mr Speaker,
:21:49. > :21:52.the police protect us and we are This new newnificent Chancellor said
:21:53. > :22:07.there would be more money for schools, more money
:22:08. > :22:13.for the NHS, more money for road and There were cuts to Government
:22:14. > :22:25.departments and higher taxes for large businesses
:22:26. > :22:29.for council tax payers and for those Like a tourist bagging
:22:30. > :22:37.the best bits of the beach, Mr Osborne has laid a great big
:22:38. > :22:45.towel over the centre ground. He was attacked by the
:22:46. > :22:51.Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, And then this, have you heard
:22:52. > :22:58.the one about Chairman Mao, asset sales and the UK's reliance
:22:59. > :23:05.on Chinese investment? A lot
:23:06. > :23:07.of Labour MPs wished they hadn't. We must learn to do economic work
:23:08. > :23:11.from all who know how, no matter who they are, we must esteem them
:23:12. > :23:16.as teachers, learning from them But we must not to pretend to
:23:17. > :23:27.know what we do not know. So the Shadow Chancellor literally
:23:28. > :23:35.stood at the despatch box and read Mr McDonnell was sadly a bit like
:23:36. > :23:52.the best man making a joke about the mother of the bride that just
:23:53. > :23:56.hasn't worked and the tumbleweed There is
:23:57. > :24:09.of course a bigger theme here, the drum beat of conflict in the
:24:10. > :24:14.Middle East and the War on Terror. The Chancellor spoke of a security
:24:15. > :24:17.Spending Review aligning economic Today, David Cameron said he wanted
:24:18. > :24:27.to deal with that security issue, calling on the Commons to back
:24:28. > :24:30.Britain joining military air strikes against so-called Islamic state
:24:31. > :24:33.strongholds in Syria. If we won't act now,
:24:34. > :24:37.when our friend and allie France has been struck in this way, then our
:24:38. > :24:41.allies in the world can be forgiven All that Isil stands for and does is
:24:42. > :24:52.contrary to everything those of us on these benches have struggled
:24:53. > :24:56.for over many generations. There is no doubt that it poses
:24:57. > :24:59.a threat to our own people. The question must now be
:25:00. > :25:05.whether extending the UK bombing from Iraq to Syria is likely to
:25:06. > :25:09.reduce or increase that threat. Whatever the outcome of that debate,
:25:10. > :25:13.it could of course be Prime Minister Osborne dealing with
:25:14. > :25:18.the issue by 2019. The ultimate and final make-over for
:25:19. > :25:31.this always flexible Chancellor. BBC Business Editor, Kamal Ahmed,
:25:32. > :25:37.being groomed And we're joined on the sofa
:25:38. > :25:42.by former BBC Economic Editor, and now high-flying City
:25:43. > :25:54.strategist, Stephanie Flanders. For various technical reasons and
:25:55. > :25:57.differences in modelling, the OBR produced a wind fall for the
:25:58. > :26:01.Chancellor of ?27 billion. He proceeded to spend it all. Was that
:26:02. > :26:07.wise? I think it was something that wiz handed to him with those big
:26:08. > :26:11.changes to the forecasts. Pretty much every Chancellor, if you stick
:26:12. > :26:15.around long enough, you get to this position where some of the news is
:26:16. > :26:22.getting better and the numbers get quite big if you have money coming
:26:23. > :26:29.in. It's surprising when you can do all that you did and still meet the
:26:30. > :26:33.key tarts he set himself and still he'll be taking money out of welfare
:26:34. > :26:36.by the end of the Parliament and getting that back from surplus. He
:26:37. > :26:44.didn't spend every penny and the fact he was still able to his
:26:45. > :26:48.targets, that was sensible. He did change too this time because before
:26:49. > :26:53.the election all the thrust of the deficit reduction was to be on cuts
:26:54. > :26:58.to public spending, but suddenly, there's been a number of tax
:26:59. > :27:04.increases, substantial ones, the apprenticeship levy will be ?9
:27:05. > :27:07.billion on business, stamp duty on landlords and other taxes as well.
:27:08. > :27:12.It's a different strategy he's on now? And actually, if you put in
:27:13. > :27:17.also the increase in the living wage in that as well which is effectively
:27:18. > :27:20.a burden on business as well, there's been a big movement in that
:27:21. > :27:24.direction. I was struck, there were two headlines this morning that were
:27:25. > :27:29.the same, end of austerities were in the Mail and the Telegraph I think,
:27:30. > :27:31.both intended to be critical headlines attacking the Chancellor,
:27:32. > :27:35.but actually end of austerity is not a bad headline for this Chancellor
:27:36. > :27:39.to have. It's probably what most people want is an end to austerity.
:27:40. > :27:42.I think actually if you wanted to question his judgment, you might go
:27:43. > :27:48.back to July and say, well, you know, if you were going to introduce
:27:49. > :27:54.the universal benefit anyway, why exactly did you need to cut Tax
:27:55. > :27:58.Credits anyway. This thing is going to take care of itself, as you
:27:59. > :28:03.change from one benefit to another, as there is a rollover of new
:28:04. > :28:07.claimants who're going to make the savings later rather than sooner. I
:28:08. > :28:11.think the judgment needs to be questioned of not this one but the
:28:12. > :28:16.previous one in July. Of getting into this? It's great when you can
:28:17. > :28:23.get credit for reversing a decision. You yourself announced a few months
:28:24. > :28:27.before. If you look at the Chancellor's strategic position on
:28:28. > :28:32.spending, on the apprenticeship levy, on more money from the Health
:28:33. > :28:36.Service or ?6 billion for housing, and for not cutting, I mean he told
:28:37. > :28:40.us in March he was going to take over ?20 billion out of Government
:28:41. > :28:46.departments, it turns out it's only ?10 billion. He's moved his tanks on
:28:47. > :28:49.to the centre ground and in some areas, with the apprenticeship levy
:28:50. > :28:55.on to the centre-left ground. Where does that leave it? Let's get behind
:28:56. > :28:59.this. The truth is, there'll still be very serious cuts in Local
:29:00. > :29:05.Government. There'll be libraries up, day care centres closed, there
:29:06. > :29:10.are very serious cuts in other departments beyond the protected
:29:11. > :29:13.health, education development, and now the police ringfenced within
:29:14. > :29:18.Home Office. I think it's also right to say that if we just went back a
:29:19. > :29:24.month, this is actually a Chancellor that is going to run into serious,
:29:25. > :29:28.serious problems. He would have cut the police massively. They have
:29:29. > :29:32.already had ?1.3 billion in London. He would have gone further, he would
:29:33. > :29:35.have gone through with Tax Credits so there is questions about his
:29:36. > :29:39.political judgment that I think hang over him despite the fact that
:29:40. > :29:45.people are saying his currency is up. George Osborne always goes a
:29:46. > :29:49.little too far and, even on your clip, he always looks like he's
:29:50. > :29:53.enjoying the game just a little bit too much and actually out there it's
:29:54. > :29:57.real people. I worry about that. We are overdoing this flexible side.
:29:58. > :30:03.The great moment of flexibility he had was in the first term, the first
:30:04. > :30:06.five years as Chancellor when he was proclaiming his commitment to
:30:07. > :30:10.austerity while showing a lot of wiggle room around the borrowing,
:30:11. > :30:15.borrowing a lot more, allowing us as a country to have twice the deficit
:30:16. > :30:19.of a typical eurozone country and to have a lot of deficit-supported
:30:20. > :30:23.growth while saying he was being austere. We have the opposite now I
:30:24. > :30:27.think, where he's suggesting he's very flexible and withdrawing these
:30:28. > :30:32.cuts at the end of austerity, because the underlying picture I'm
:30:33. > :30:37.not sure I agree with your depiction Andrew because you are looking at
:30:38. > :30:41.still overall a huge reduction in the size of the state, bigger than
:30:42. > :30:45.any country has achieved over a ten-year period an taxes being
:30:46. > :30:49.capped at a low rate as a share of GDP. I take the point there are
:30:50. > :30:56.costs put on to businesses not showing up in the tax calculation,
:30:57. > :31:00.but I think this is still... Can I go to David Lamy's point about what
:31:01. > :31:03.it would have meant if it was a month ago. Politicians get and
:31:04. > :31:07.deserve their luck and there is a fair amount of luck in this. I said
:31:08. > :31:11.about a month ago or whenever it was when he lost the vote in the House
:31:12. > :31:17.of Lords on the Tax Credits that they'd done him an immense favour.
:31:18. > :31:22.If it would have gone through, he'd be saddled with that retchid cut and
:31:23. > :31:26.come the spring there would be these families ?1500 a year worse off. The
:31:27. > :31:29.constituency post bags would have been unbearable. He was saved all of
:31:30. > :31:31.that because thank God the Government lost in the House of
:31:32. > :31:37.Lords. A lot of the same changes will come
:31:38. > :31:41.through with the Universal Credits... The ones in there will be
:31:42. > :31:46.protected. It is quite different to say this person getting ?1,500 less
:31:47. > :31:50.than they would have done if they had applied last month. There is one
:31:51. > :31:54.other group we should talk about - students. As you remember, back in
:31:55. > :32:00.2012, we put fees up, we said that you would pay back the loans at
:32:01. > :32:07.?21,000, very quietly George Osborne changed the fact that we were going
:32:08. > :32:12.to operate that ?21,000 five years later. A lot of people now will pay
:32:13. > :32:17.back their loans a lot sooner and at the same time, nurses will not get
:32:18. > :32:22.direct grants, they too will be on loans. No-one can argue that nurses
:32:23. > :32:27.make the kinds of salaries that on average university graduates do. If
:32:28. > :32:31.you go through the budget statement, you can find all sorts of examples
:32:32. > :32:35.of that, where several hundred million have been saved here and
:32:36. > :32:43.there. But on the broad judgment, what I'm not clear is, is the fiscal
:32:44. > :32:51.consolidation plan in your view too tight, about right, or it should be
:32:52. > :32:56.looser? Clearly, just over ?10 billion worth of cuts is preferable
:32:57. > :33:01.to ?20 billion. So, from a Labour perspective, it's better. We have
:33:02. > :33:05.some victories here. I am pleased... Should the deficit be reduced in the
:33:06. > :33:12.manner and at the speed that he plans? Or should it be slower? Look,
:33:13. > :33:20.he has - he's broken the benefit cap already. I suspect that... I'm not
:33:21. > :33:22.asking you for a commentary on the Tory position. I'm asking you for
:33:23. > :33:32.what you think Labour's position should be. Well, Labour's position
:33:33. > :33:38.at the moment is something according to Chairman Mao. Let me clarify for
:33:39. > :33:42.a second time. I didn't ask you what Labour's position was. I asked you
:33:43. > :33:46.what you thought Labour's position should be. I think that Labour's
:33:47. > :33:54.position has got to be consistent with the vast majority of people and
:33:55. > :33:58.that is anti-austerity, not going too soon, actually ironically, we
:33:59. > :34:02.arrive somewhere in that place in George Osborne's budget. That is as
:34:03. > :34:10.a consequence of pressure from us. About right. So, it is OK because it
:34:11. > :34:14.is your budget? It's not my budget, it his HIS budget. We fought hard
:34:15. > :34:21.against those police cuts, we fought hard on tax credits, we won those
:34:22. > :34:26.victories. Alright. You followed and watched George Osborne for a number
:34:27. > :34:31.of years. He's clearly positioning himself to be the next Conservative
:34:32. > :34:37.Leader? Has he got it in him to be the Prime Minister? Michael's
:34:38. > :34:45.probably seen more of his prime ministerial qualities than I have. I
:34:46. > :34:47.have seen the Chancellor, shifting and changing... Is he building up
:34:48. > :34:51.into being prime ministerial material? In terms of the way he's
:34:52. > :34:57.now talking on a much wider range of issues, and the way in which he's
:34:58. > :35:05.credited with still an enormous amount of political strategy and
:35:06. > :35:09.acumen, despite some of the reversals. He is shaping up, you
:35:10. > :35:15.might say, rather better than the last Chancellor who then became the
:35:16. > :35:19.Prime Minister. Wo would that be? Remind me. Someone from north of the
:35:20. > :35:22.border. Ten years ago, I knew both of these people very well. Ten years
:35:23. > :35:25.ago, my feeling was that George Osborne would be the better
:35:26. > :35:27.candidate to be leader of the Conservative Party. I was probably
:35:28. > :35:30.wrong at that time. There was an underlying point. There is an
:35:31. > :35:35.extraordinary resilience in George. There is a solidity. As things
:35:36. > :35:44.stand, is he the likely next leader? Yes. I think he still lacks a little
:35:45. > :35:51.bit of the charisma that you associate with the Prime Minister. I
:35:52. > :35:59.think in every other way, all the boxes are being picked. What did you
:36:00. > :36:04.think when John McDonnell brought out his little Red Book? Ill-judged.
:36:05. > :36:10.Did you read it yourself? I haven't read it myself. We touched on it
:36:11. > :36:14.briefly in a history class in A-level. I think the Chamber of the
:36:15. > :36:18.House of Commons is, at that level, with - I know why he did it. He did
:36:19. > :36:21.it to illustrate the point that they were selling everything off to the
:36:22. > :36:25.Chinese, however it was badly judged. Alright.
:36:26. > :36:27.Now, some of our older viewers will probably remember the
:36:28. > :36:36.They're back in the game - if leader Tim Fan-Dabi-Dozi is to be believed.
:36:37. > :36:39.According to Tiger Tim, Boy George's dramatic U-turn
:36:40. > :36:46.yesterday on tax credits was apparently "a massive Lib Dem win".
:36:47. > :36:49.Well, that's certainly one way of looking at it, but maybe Tim
:36:50. > :36:51.shouldn't be so sensitive about who gets the credit - after
:36:52. > :36:58.all, people have far more important things to worry about, or do they?
:36:59. > :37:00.We're not sure - that's why we're putting 'sensitivities'
:37:01. > :37:15.It might seem a stretch to call this controversial but Yoga's touched
:37:16. > :37:19.Campaigners got a campus class shutdown, complaining the exercise
:37:20. > :37:28.The new Star Wars film is on the way and there's a battle raging over
:37:29. > :37:32.the adverts and whether you should serve religion with your popcorn.
:37:33. > :37:42.Some cinemas won't be showing a Church of England advert
:37:43. > :37:45.featuring the Lord's Prayer, receiving condemnation from
:37:46. > :37:55.Just ask actor Benedict Cumberbatch whether sensitivity's ever been
:37:56. > :38:01.In new comedy Zoolander II, the actor's transgender character is
:38:02. > :38:05.no laughing matter for some who're calling for a
:38:06. > :38:11.boycott of the movie on the grounds of his cartoonish portrayal.
:38:12. > :38:15.I think he's asking do you have a hot dog or a bun.
:38:16. > :38:19.Does the first Scouser in Bollywood suggest people are far less
:38:20. > :38:24.They call you bling, bling, Mr Singh.
:38:25. > :38:26.Actress Amy Jackson may be white and from Liverpool
:38:27. > :38:30.but plays characters from a different ethnic background and has
:38:31. > :38:36.captured Indian imaginations with a string of acclaimed performances.
:38:37. > :38:49.This Week, smoothly navigating your cultural sensitivities, since 2003.
:38:50. > :38:54.If that doesn't get us a Bollywood contract, nothing will!
:38:55. > :39:08.You were born on the Isle of Man, raised in Liverpool, so how did you
:39:09. > :39:15.end up in Mumbai? It has been a whirlwind, really has. Now it is my
:39:16. > :39:20.new life. Bollywood movies is basically what is happening right
:39:21. > :39:27.now. I got scouted back when I was 17. This was over in America, and
:39:28. > :39:31.basically the director saw a picture of me in the Daily Mail and he said
:39:32. > :39:49.this is what I want for my movie, this is the lady I want to cast, and
:39:50. > :40:47.it was a 1940s period drama. You now I pick roles where I think I can do
:40:48. > :40:53.justice to the character. It's not like, I'll do this role, or that
:40:54. > :40:57.role. If I feel I can do well and portray it properly, that's when
:40:58. > :41:05.I'll decide. Is everything you do in English? No, it's not. Tell us more?
:41:06. > :41:11.Hindi is Bollywood, I've done two Bollywood films, regional cinema,
:41:12. > :41:19.there are 47 different languages in India. The main movies I've been
:41:20. > :41:23.working on are Tamil films. The Hindi ones also.
:41:24. > :41:29.It speaks volumes for India, doesn't it? It really does. Indian cinema is
:41:30. > :41:33.international, global, people watch it all over the world and it's on
:41:34. > :41:40.the rise. What about British cinema? Definitely. Are you up for that?
:41:41. > :41:45.100%. I didn't realise acting was my passion until I was thrown into the
:41:46. > :41:51.deep end and now wherever cinema may take me, especially where I come
:41:52. > :41:55.from Britain and obviously overseas, it's definitely on the cards. So
:41:56. > :41:59.there is a lot of cultural sensitivity around, but you show
:42:00. > :42:04.that people are prepared, not to be too sensitive, but they are prepared
:42:05. > :42:09.to go with the flow, if they see a success they back it, they like it.
:42:10. > :42:13.Do you live in India now? Yes, end of austerity got a place in Mumbai,
:42:14. > :42:20.so between Mumbai and London, I'm travelling all over for shoots and
:42:21. > :42:27.Mumbai is such a cosmopolitan city, and Bollywood is global. Yes. It's
:42:28. > :42:32.always expanding. Can you walk down the street in Mumbai? It's getting
:42:33. > :42:37.very full on which is good and, with each movie that releases and with
:42:38. > :42:41.each movie that is a success, obviously I'm more recognised. David
:42:42. > :42:45.has a problem in London, he can barely walk. Are you a sensitive
:42:46. > :42:52.soul, David? LAUGHTER
:42:53. > :42:56.Looks very sensitive! Underneath that rough ex-tarior, Michael is
:42:57. > :43:03.very sensitive aren't you? I am. You have got a movie coming out --
:43:04. > :43:08.exterior. Yes, it's releasing worldwide on 18th December. The
:43:09. > :43:15.music released today on iTunes, it's a romantic album so check that out
:43:16. > :43:17.if you are into Tamil movie cinema. Good luck with the film, great to
:43:18. > :43:24.have you. That's your lot for tonight, folks,
:43:25. > :43:25.but not for us because it's Grant Shapps Night at Lou Lou's
:43:26. > :43:27.and we're off to strenuously deny all knowledge of any wrong-doing
:43:28. > :43:29.on the dance-floor. We leave you tonight with exclusive
:43:30. > :43:32.footage from the This Week archives. And proof that,
:43:33. > :43:34.despite reported disagreements in the shadow cabinet, at least some
:43:35. > :43:39.of the Corbyn leadership team are Nighty night,
:43:40. > :43:45.don't let Madame Mao bite. Why is it right to wear a
:43:46. > :43:47.Maoist T-shirt but obviously wrong - because it is
:43:48. > :43:52.- to wear a Hitler T-shirt? I suppose some people would judge
:43:53. > :43:55.that on balance, Mao did more good than harm,
:43:56. > :43:59.you can't say that about Marxist. I've just had this debate with
:44:00. > :44:05.my son. I wish this were in Private Eye,
:44:06. > :44:07.I really do. You still
:44:08. > :44:09.like all these old lefty dictators. Mao killed tens of millions
:44:10. > :44:12.of people. Just tell me what was the good that
:44:13. > :44:16.he did that made up for the 60 He helped defeat the Japanese and he
:44:17. > :44:21.left his country on the verge... ...could have beaten the Japanese,
:44:22. > :44:37.too. The way in which
:44:38. > :44:39.we create and consume food A seemingly sci-fi future
:44:40. > :44:44.is actually a reality. I'll be joined by a team of experts
:44:45. > :44:49.and we'll scour the globe