:00:09. > :00:13.Tonight on This Week, we diagnose a medical drama.
:00:14. > :00:17.Emergency in the NHS as Junior Doctors go on strike.
:00:18. > :00:22.But who will be the biggest casualty?
:00:23. > :00:27.Doctor and Bake Off heartthrob Tamal Ray is playing Operation.
:00:28. > :00:32.The stakes are high, for this guy and they NHS, and that's why I
:00:33. > :00:34.support the junior doctors strike. It's not only the health
:00:35. > :00:37.of the nation the Prime Minister is worried about, but the health
:00:38. > :00:39.of his campaign to keep Sky's Adam Boulton
:00:40. > :00:52.is taking the pulse. Is David Cameron's EU prescription
:00:53. > :01:00.but for the health of the nation? -- good for the health of the nation.
:01:01. > :01:03.And mental health is back in the news this week
:01:04. > :01:05.as the Prime Minister claims it's a Government priority.
:01:06. > :01:07.Singer and former Girls Aloud band member, Nicola Roberts
:01:08. > :01:13.I've been taking the pulse on mental health care, and we need to put more
:01:14. > :01:15.signs of life into it. Are there any signs
:01:16. > :01:19.of life left in This Week? Welcome to This Week,
:01:20. > :01:21.a week in which, I kid you not, the Shadow Politburo
:01:22. > :01:23.reshuffle is still going on. Yes, no sooner did Comrade Jezza
:01:24. > :01:27.think he had all his apparatchiks in a row at last than yet another
:01:28. > :01:29.loyal member chose to exile themselves, leaving him
:01:30. > :01:32.with a fresh vacancy to fill. There are Labour MPs still sitting
:01:33. > :01:36.by their phones in the hope Jezza And others who've dared not
:01:37. > :01:41.answer their phones since the start of the year, for fear
:01:42. > :01:44.that he'd do just that. If this goes on much longer
:01:45. > :01:47.there are fellow travellers as-yet-unborn who could well
:01:48. > :01:50.feature in this reshuffle. Just as posh folk put their kids
:01:51. > :01:54.down for Eton the moment the little brat is born, I understand
:01:55. > :01:56.fashionable families in Islington are now putting forward
:01:57. > :01:59.the names of their new-born There's certainly no
:02:00. > :02:04.shortage of places. There are not one, not two,
:02:05. > :02:07.but three Labour MPs with the title shadow minister for
:02:08. > :02:10.women and equalities. But it turns out only one is allowed
:02:11. > :02:13.to attend the shadow cabinet. Some equalities ministers,
:02:14. > :02:15.it would seem, are more I'm joined on the sofa tonight
:02:16. > :02:21.by two Westminster love birds, fully engaged in
:02:22. > :02:23.the battle of ideas. Think of them as the Jerry Hall
:02:24. > :02:26.and the Rupert Murdoch I speak, of course, of #jesswecan
:02:27. > :02:47.Jess Phillips and #sadmanonatrain Michael, your moment of the week? A
:02:48. > :02:52.series of moments. I've been asking politically wise people, whether
:02:53. > :02:56.Britain would actually leave the EU. The vast majority of these wise men
:02:57. > :03:00.and women think it would not happen. The British government would not go
:03:01. > :03:04.so quietly and the European Union would certainly not go so quietly.
:03:05. > :03:05.What would happen would be what has happened in most European referendum
:03:06. > :03:11.is where the voters turn out happened in most European referendum
:03:12. > :03:12.wrong way from the establishment, there would be a further
:03:13. > :03:16.renegotiation and a further referendum and a chance for people
:03:17. > :03:21.to get it right a second time. If you accept what this is, a fairly
:03:22. > :03:26.common-sense point of view, I think, the only rational thing to do is
:03:27. > :03:28.vote to leave. Only at that point do you get a proper renegotiation and
:03:29. > :03:35.the possibility of proper settlement. That might explain why
:03:36. > :03:36.the Chancellor said on Newsnight tonight, this is the only proper
:03:37. > :03:42.referendum. If you believe that, you tonight, this is the only proper
:03:43. > :03:49.will believe anything. I am quite gullible. My moment was the release
:03:50. > :03:53.of the transgender report in Parliament in the week that David
:03:54. > :03:55.Bowie died, 30 years on from the gender politics that he took on,
:03:56. > :03:58.parliament finally catching up. Now, junior doctors went
:03:59. > :04:00.on strike this week, downing stethoscopes
:04:01. > :04:02.for the first time in 40 years. The dispute centres on a proposed
:04:03. > :04:04.new contract for medics and a further two strikes
:04:05. > :04:07.are planned, with the final due Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt says
:04:08. > :04:12.he wants a seven-day NHS. The doctors claim it's about making
:04:13. > :04:16.them work more unsafe hours The details have left many people
:04:17. > :04:24.more baffled than Diane Abbott after 45 minutes
:04:25. > :04:29.on the This Week sofa. So here to give us his diagnosis
:04:30. > :04:30.Great British Bake Off finalist, and junior doctor, Tamal Ray,
:04:31. > :04:35.with his take of the week. I can't get blood pressure
:04:36. > :04:38.on him, there are no SATS. He's lost loads of blood,
:04:39. > :04:42.we need to get an ABG. We need to bring him
:04:43. > :04:45.round for a scan. Time is running out
:04:46. > :04:47.for this guy, but It's because I love our health care
:04:48. > :04:53.service, that as junior doctor, The government, playing on public
:04:54. > :04:58.fears of understaffing, claims it wants to
:04:59. > :05:02.have a seven-day NHS. The NHS already offers free,
:05:03. > :05:11.world-class emergency care, Sure, if you want elective surgery,
:05:12. > :05:18.a butterfly in your stomach removed on a Sunday lunchtime,
:05:19. > :05:23.you might have to wait a bit. But if you have a medical
:05:24. > :05:25.emergency, you will always We would love to provide a seven-day
:05:26. > :05:31.elective service as well, but to do so would require a 40%
:05:32. > :05:34.increase in staffing and resources. Where is the money for that
:05:35. > :05:37.going to come from? Also, we are in danger
:05:38. > :05:39.of doctors having much more than shaky hands
:05:40. > :05:41.if the government succeeds in removing financial
:05:42. > :05:43.penalties for hospitals that force doctors
:05:44. > :05:46.to work unsafe rotas. These penalties are a vital
:05:47. > :05:51.protection against unsafe hours. Reclassifying normal working hours,
:05:52. > :05:57.to include 7am-10 PM on Saturday, could see us working every
:05:58. > :05:57.Saturday of the year. That means never getting
:05:58. > :05:59.a weekend to see our family We might be doctors,
:06:00. > :06:03.but we are just ordinary people who want the same thing
:06:04. > :06:05.as everybody else. Everybody has a breaking point,
:06:06. > :06:08.and I feel like this contract The government say this
:06:09. > :06:17.is all about doctors being greedy It's about protecting a national
:06:18. > :06:21.institution and making There has been a lot of spin,
:06:22. > :06:28.but I think this is all about cutting costs in the NHS
:06:29. > :06:30.to make it easier for private In which case, it will be
:06:31. > :06:38.the patients who lose out. From the operating table
:06:39. > :06:42.to our own little half-baked operation here in Westminster,
:06:43. > :06:53.Dr Tamal Ray joins us now. Welcome to the programme. What did
:06:54. > :06:57.the strike on Tuesday achieved? I hope it achieved getting the public
:06:58. > :07:03.to be exactly aware of what we are striking about. I hope it will bring
:07:04. > :07:05.the government to the table and bring about more meaningful
:07:06. > :07:10.negotiations than the one we've had up until this point. Do you think
:07:11. > :07:17.that would happen before the next strike which is a couple of weeks
:07:18. > :07:19.away? I hope so, a couple of weeks is quite a long time. I'm been told
:07:20. > :07:27.that progress was made in the talks over Christmas. Are the doctors
:07:28. > :07:31.right to strike, Jess? If I was a doctor at the moment I would
:07:32. > :07:35.definitely go and strike. I think the government has utterly failed in
:07:36. > :07:39.negotiations. They pushed for the negotiations, sat around the table,
:07:40. > :07:42.and Jeremy Hunt completely failed to get to a reasonable agreement with
:07:43. > :07:48.them. I think they are right to strike. Should it have aimed for
:07:49. > :07:52.what it wants to achieve in the first place? Should it be trying
:07:53. > :07:56.what it wants to achieve in the get more than just emergency cover
:07:57. > :08:01.at weekends? I think it's a total myth that the NHS doesn't operate 24
:08:02. > :08:05.hours per day. Both my children were born at two o'clock in the morning,
:08:06. > :08:09.there were doctors and nurses there. We know that, there is always
:08:10. > :08:14.emergency cover at weekends and some elective cover as well. But the
:08:15. > :08:25.government's aim was to have more, to make it a seven-day pearl week
:08:26. > :08:26.operation. It's about priorities. It will take more money if that's what
:08:27. > :08:29.they want to do. That's fine if that is the priority, but it will take a
:08:30. > :08:33.huge amount of money to cover the staffing instead of knocking junior
:08:34. > :08:38.doctors, and the nurses down the line. There are other huge problems
:08:39. > :08:45.in the NHS they are not dealing with. This election pledge...? The
:08:46. > :08:53.government is right and the doctors are completely wrong. You are more
:08:54. > :08:57.likely to die if you are admitted to emergency over the weekend and that
:08:58. > :09:01.is intolerable in the 21st century. Doctors ought to be more keen,
:09:02. > :09:05.because they have supposedly taken me Hippocratic oath. Supposedly
:09:06. > :09:13.their biggest concern in the world is the safety of patients. Most of
:09:14. > :09:17.the issues in the negotiations have been settled. It isn't the
:09:18. > :09:20.government the negotiating table, it's the junior doctors who have not
:09:21. > :09:24.shown up. There has been a pay rise in the basic pay for doctors, and
:09:25. > :09:25.shown up. There has been a pay rise doctors should be available seven
:09:26. > :09:34.days per week. There's nothing puzzling about this, it doesn't mean
:09:35. > :09:38.working Saturday over the year. Lots of people work seven days per week,
:09:39. > :09:41.it doesn't mean they work every Saturday or Sunday, but sensible
:09:42. > :09:48.arrangements are made so a plane is likely to be flown safely at the
:09:49. > :09:52.weekend that any other day. The current contract we have at the
:09:53. > :09:58.moment provides for us the current contract at the moment provides for
:09:59. > :10:04.others to allow emergency care at the weekend. You're talking about
:10:05. > :10:08.providing health care in elective services over the weekend. It's a
:10:09. > :10:15.fantastic game, and we would embrace that as a profession, but if you
:10:16. > :10:19.want to provide that you have to have the personnel and resources to
:10:20. > :10:24.do it. We need doctors, nurses, physios, all the other people as
:10:25. > :10:27.well. We also need social care that can discharge all these people at
:10:28. > :10:34.the weekend. You could have 20 doctors to every patient in a
:10:35. > :10:38.hospital but without... How has the striking helped to achieve this? The
:10:39. > :10:43.negotiation was continuing and most of the points have been settled.
:10:44. > :10:48.It's all good enough saying this without going into elective care. We
:10:49. > :10:53.have 11,000 extra deaths at the weekend. Elective care is routine
:10:54. > :10:59.knee operations, that will not stop people buying at the weekend. I
:11:00. > :11:01.understand that, but you should be standing up to the government and
:11:02. > :11:06.wanting to get rid of this higher chance of dying at the weekend. What
:11:07. > :11:11.are you basing this higher chance of dying at the weekend? The figures
:11:12. > :11:18.are disputed. The authors of that paper and the BMA... That's the
:11:19. > :11:22.11,000 figures Jeremy Hunt has been using. It's a misinterpretation of
:11:23. > :11:29.the figure, the statistics. The paper showed that patients admitted
:11:30. > :11:34.Friday to Monday, within 30 days of their stay at a slightly increased
:11:35. > :11:36.rate of mortality, but the authors of the paper said it would be rash
:11:37. > :11:41.to conclude this was because of staffing. They said it's something
:11:42. > :11:44.that should be looked into, but no conclusions could be made. There is
:11:45. > :11:48.no paper that says the lack of doctors at the weekend is a cause of
:11:49. > :11:54.increased mortality at the weekend. We need to do more research to look
:11:55. > :11:56.into this, but to base these contract reforms on a
:11:57. > :12:03.misinterpretation of the paper is wrong. I thought that what is
:12:04. > :12:05.misinterpretation of the paper is we were basing these reforms on.
:12:06. > :12:08.Jeremy Hunt is. When the government is trying to put patient safety
:12:09. > :12:18.first, how are you improving patient safety by going on strike? I want to
:12:19. > :12:24.ask you a question now. There is a general acceptance that if the NHS
:12:25. > :12:29.could do it, care should be seen over seven days, many services are
:12:30. > :12:33.now seamless. Going back to our guest's point, I don't see how you
:12:34. > :12:38.can do that, provide the same care at the weekend as you do in the
:12:39. > :12:44.week, without an increase in resources. Inevitably it would take
:12:45. > :12:50.more money. He's already having to work hard enough during the week. If
:12:51. > :12:55.he spread more evenly over seven days, it will hit the week. You need
:12:56. > :12:59.more doctors and more money. The government started by offering an
:13:00. > :13:03.11% rise in basic pay. For extra hours each day, the rate goes up for
:13:04. > :13:08.time and a half. On Sundays the rate goes up again. The overall page
:13:09. > :13:13.doesn't change. Many people watching this programme will say, I wouldn't
:13:14. > :13:16.mind getting time and a half at the weekend or for extra hours at the
:13:17. > :13:26.end of the day. I think what will happen as a result of this is that
:13:27. > :13:27.the junior doctors will end happen as a result of this is that
:13:28. > :13:31.or a set of people that were once regarded as professionals, with very
:13:32. > :13:38.high esteem among the public, but because they take industrial action,
:13:39. > :13:52.they lose their rationalism and esteem. Professionals do not go on
:13:53. > :13:56.strike, it defines a professional. You bulk at the idea it's about
:13:57. > :14:00.patient safety, but it really is. When we went on strike this week we
:14:01. > :14:04.still provided emergency care. Allsorts of headlines about this
:14:05. > :14:14.being an issue of patient safety, but the emergency care we provide is
:14:15. > :14:14.the same as every bank holiday. No patients
:14:15. > :14:16.the same as every bank holiday. No third strike you would not, are you
:14:17. > :14:20.more nervous about that? We would still have extra consultants being
:14:21. > :14:23.drafted in to provide that care. Even though junior doctors might
:14:24. > :14:28.provide a full walk-out, there would still be experienced clinicians
:14:29. > :14:33.providing that care. Do you think any patient would be at risk? I
:14:34. > :14:37.don't think they would be. Even with withdrawal of emergency cover?
:14:38. > :14:39.Withdrawal of emergency cover by junior doctors at consultants will
:14:40. > :14:52.still be there. I have people in my constituency
:14:53. > :14:57.waiting two-and-a-half years For appointments. Jeremy Hunt is the
:14:58. > :15:00.first person we should be taking on, not hard-working doctors in the
:15:01. > :15:04.hospital. We fought an election in this. They didn't mention the
:15:05. > :15:08.two-and-a-half year waiting list for kids trying to commit suicide. Your
:15:09. > :15:14.party didn't have resources for the National Health Service. They did.
:15:15. > :15:18.All of them did. It's talking about spreading the existing resours out
:15:19. > :15:23.more thinly across the week. We are already struggling to provide the
:15:24. > :15:28.five-day service, the full service, elected service during the week. We
:15:29. > :15:32.are not going to be able to provide a better service over the weekend if
:15:33. > :15:38.that service is spread more thinly. In terms of patient safety, this is
:15:39. > :15:40.not just about a contract, it's about protecting the NHS for future
:15:41. > :15:47.generations. After us, the reason why the junior doctors have received
:15:48. > :15:51.such unanimous support, ODPs, consultants GPs, nurses, they are
:15:52. > :15:56.all on our side in a way I've never seen before since I've been a medic
:15:57. > :15:58.and that's not been seen in decades and that's because people know they
:15:59. > :16:02.are next in the firing line. This contract will be rolled out in some
:16:03. > :16:06.form or another for everyone working in the NHS. It will destroy morale
:16:07. > :16:09.for people already working flat out to keep a system afloat. I think
:16:10. > :16:13.it's going to be a complete disaster. I would love if we could
:16:14. > :16:19.move forward with the Government and have some true reform of the NHS,
:16:20. > :16:22.but this is not the way to go about it.
:16:23. > :16:27.What would true reform be? We need to take this out of Party Politics.
:16:28. > :16:31.I would like to see committees from all political parties together with
:16:32. > :16:35.doctors and relevant workers within the NHS sit down and consider all
:16:36. > :16:41.the options. I'm not saying - we have talked about private health
:16:42. > :16:50.care having a role within the NHS - the NHS has become such a toxic
:16:51. > :16:52.issue. Any time anyone says NHS and reform in the same sentence, we are
:16:53. > :16:56.all there with our pitchforks and it's insane. We need an honest
:16:57. > :16:59.debate about this. Thank you for being part of the debate tonight.
:17:00. > :17:02.Thank you for having me. Now it's late - Ed Miliband
:17:03. > :17:04.thigh tattoo late - so even if your mother doesn't
:17:05. > :17:08.approve, stick with us. Because waiting in the wings,
:17:09. > :17:10.singer and campaigner, Nicola Roberts is here,
:17:11. > :17:14.to make her voice heard on the topic Despite what the BBC
:17:15. > :17:19.would like you to believe, we're still paying absolutely no
:17:20. > :17:23.attention to anything you say on The Twitter, The Fleecebook
:17:24. > :17:25.MySpace Your Space, SnapTalks, Telescope or even our
:17:26. > :17:28.former Great Leader's World Wide Web Now, we enjoy excellent industrial
:17:29. > :17:32.relations here on This Week. For instance, Jess is no trouble
:17:33. > :17:36.at all, one five minute tea break, and a bag of cheesy Quavers
:17:37. > :17:39.on expenses, and she's good-to-go. Well, for a former leading light
:17:40. > :17:44.of the Thatcherite right, he makes Green Room demands
:17:45. > :17:47.that would make a 1970s I mean exactly why is
:17:48. > :17:51.coconut-scented massage oil Anyway with workplace strife
:17:52. > :17:56.all the rage elsewhere, we decided to call up
:17:57. > :17:59.some emergency cover. Here's Sky News' Adam Boulton,
:18:00. > :18:26.with his Round-Up of It's all go here thanks to those
:18:27. > :18:33.junior doctors and their 24-hour strike. Then we've got our own
:18:34. > :18:38.winter crisis on This Week. A shortage of late-night viewers. And
:18:39. > :18:41.those we have got winding up here in the ward comatosed as a result of
:18:42. > :18:49.clunky jokes. Any signs of life, nurse? No, their signs are not
:18:50. > :18:53.looking too clever, doctor. We'd better have a look. Well, not
:18:54. > :18:57.surprisingly, many top consultants at Westminster were expecting the
:18:58. > :19:04.Leader of the Opposition to concentrate on the NHS at PMQs. But
:19:05. > :19:12.Mr Corbyn likes to surprise and instead he zeroed in on the Prime
:19:13. > :19:19.Minister's new plans to bulldoze sink estates. Come on, open up. He
:19:20. > :19:27.hasn't clearly thought this thing through very carefully because every
:19:28. > :19:31.estate that he announces he wishes to bulldoze will include tenants and
:19:32. > :19:36.people that have bought their homes under right-to-buy. Will those
:19:37. > :19:42.people, the lease holders, will they be guaranteed homes on their rebuilt
:19:43. > :19:46.estates that he's proposing to do? Look, of course, I accept this isn't
:19:47. > :19:52.as carefully thought through as his reshuffle. Hm. Well, not very smooth
:19:53. > :19:59.for Jeremy Corbyn. David Cameron walked through that one, but the
:20:00. > :20:09.Leader of the Opposition knows the Government's hardly delivered on
:20:10. > :20:14.their housing promises. How's he doing? The Prime Minister said they
:20:15. > :20:19.can campaign from within the Cabinet against the EU but only once he's
:20:20. > :20:22.reached a deal and that, of course, gives the pro-Europeans massive head
:20:23. > :20:26.starts. The position of the whole Government
:20:27. > :20:30.is that we should renegotiate, hold a referendum and that the best
:20:31. > :20:34.outcome would be to keep Britain in a reformed European Union. That is
:20:35. > :20:40.the position of the Government, so anyone sitting in this chair from my
:20:41. > :20:44.team should be making that argument. Thank you, nurse...
:20:45. > :20:50.First Cabinet Minister out of the traps was Chris Grayling. Senior job
:20:51. > :20:56.leader of the House, but sometimes know as Grey-thing to his
:20:57. > :21:01.non-admirers. He didn't burst a full blood vessel and didn't say Britain
:21:02. > :21:05.should come out come what may, but his critics still weighed in. I
:21:06. > :21:10.don't think Chris is right. I think that there are some myths pedalled
:21:11. > :21:14.in his article. It's a bit surprising he says that where we are
:21:15. > :21:17.is disastrous. # Trust me, trust me
:21:18. > :21:34.# I'm a doctor # I know, I know what I'm doing... #
:21:35. > :21:40.Well, speaking of panning, there were mixed reviews from Kong gross
:21:41. > :21:46.for President Obama's last State of the Union address. Even admitting he
:21:47. > :21:50.didn't have the unifying skills of Franklin Roosevelt, he spent an
:21:51. > :21:57.awful lot of time talking about a certain unnamed Republican candidate
:21:58. > :22:02.to come. When politicians insult Muslims, whether abroad or our
:22:03. > :22:08.fellow citizens, when a mosque is vandalised or a kid is called names,
:22:09. > :22:16.it doesn't make us safer, that's not telling it like it is. It's just
:22:17. > :22:28.wrong. It diminishes us in the eyes of the world.
:22:29. > :22:35.Obama's obviously concerned about his legally and so perhaps is David
:22:36. > :22:42.Cameron beginning to be. Problem is, both face a really chronic crisis.
:22:43. > :22:47.The situation in Syria, even his own backbenchers are worried. And there
:22:48. > :22:50.was a tetchy exchange over the Prime Minister's claim that there are
:22:51. > :22:55.70,000 moderates on the ground in Syria ready to fight IS. Some do
:22:56. > :22:59.belong to Islamist groups and some belong to relatively hard line
:23:00. > :23:02.Islamist groups. They are not all the sort of people you'd bump into
:23:03. > :23:05.at Liberal Democrat Party Conference, correct. In the Middle
:23:06. > :23:11.East, the problems of history keep on coming back to life. Nurse, try
:23:12. > :23:16.and get this lot back to bed. Lower oil prices may be good news at the
:23:17. > :23:21.pumps but they increase economic instability and then there's Iran,
:23:22. > :23:24.taking hostages again, but readmitted to the diplomatic
:23:25. > :23:28.community. # Trust me, trust me
:23:29. > :23:34.# I'm a doctor # Trust me, trust me... #
:23:35. > :23:42.Not another one... At least there was some good news this week. West
:23:43. > :23:46.Africa declared ebola free, but the European Union, the Middle East, the
:23:47. > :23:52.NHS, the housing crisis, are going to be with us for months to come, if
:23:53. > :24:00.not years. Dr Cameron is no Dr Finlay with a cure in every episode.
:24:01. > :24:06.Well, drastic times call for drastic measures. Nurse, marvellous
:24:07. > :24:17.medicine... Dr Adam Boulton on his rounds
:24:18. > :24:20.at Kingston University in London. No patients were in any way helped
:24:21. > :24:38.during the making of that film. Welcome. On Europe, the dice is cast
:24:39. > :24:42.now, the Prime Minister is going to come back with some kind of deal,
:24:43. > :24:49.he's going to back that deal, he's going to campaign to keep us in the
:24:50. > :24:53.European Union and about five or six Cabinet Ministers are going to peel
:24:54. > :24:59.off for the duration of the campaign against, that's what is going to
:25:00. > :25:03.happen, isn't it? Absolutely. And, does it matter for those who want to
:25:04. > :25:07.stay in that five or six Cabinet Ministers are going to campaign
:25:08. > :25:12.against? Is that a game-changer for the referendum? It's not a
:25:13. > :25:16.game-changer. It's obviously very useful to the leave campaign that
:25:17. > :25:20.there'll be six members of the Cabinet or thereabouts campaigning
:25:21. > :25:25.to leave. As I said on the programme last week, obviously the tactic that
:25:26. > :25:31.will be employed by the Government, as always employed in the
:25:32. > :25:36.referendums, is to try toe make the people who don't want to do what the
:25:37. > :25:39.establishment want, so if today's current Cabinet are campaigning to
:25:40. > :25:42.leave, it's harder to describe the leave campaign as a loony or a
:25:43. > :25:46.fringe campaign. Will the Shadow Cabinet be 100% for
:25:47. > :25:51.staying in? Gosh, I don't know who is in it any more, it's hard to keep
:25:52. > :25:54.up. Yes, I think the Labour Party, there's a fringe element in the
:25:55. > :25:58.Labour Party that sort of... The back benches? Yes, they tend to be
:25:59. > :26:03.on the back benches. Maybe not as vehemently as it might have been in
:26:04. > :26:08.the past but it will definitely be an in-campaign. I think it's funny
:26:09. > :26:14.the idea that Michael thinks Cabinet members in this campaign is going to
:26:15. > :26:16.sway the British public. Most people wouldn't know who they were and will
:26:17. > :26:20.base their views on either fear or the fact that you will have to queue
:26:21. > :26:27.longer at customs and won't be able to get net flix when you are in
:26:28. > :26:31.Spain. You can get it now, but you couldn't if we were not in Europe.
:26:32. > :26:35.It's a deal-breaker. How significant if there is a chunk of Conservative
:26:36. > :26:42.Cabinet Ministers joining the outs? It depends who the Conservative
:26:43. > :26:46.Cabinet Ministers are. With all due respect to Chris Grayling and
:26:47. > :26:53.Theresa Villiers, they are not big beasts and one of the problems the
:26:54. > :26:54.leave campaign has at the moment is, it doesn't have a high-profile
:26:55. > :27:01.leader. I don't know if Michael might like the job, but at the
:27:02. > :27:05.moment, David Cameron has taken the sting out of Cabinet Ministers
:27:06. > :27:11.supporting leaving Europe because it's not a martyrdom issue and there
:27:12. > :27:15.isn't a big issue there. If Theresa May were to go across, that could
:27:16. > :27:20.make a difference. No sign of that? No, and if Michael Gove may be about
:27:21. > :27:24.to go across, that might make a difference too. As with Boris
:27:25. > :27:29.Johnson. No sign of that either? No. Therefore, who is going to be the
:27:30. > :27:35.leader? Is it going to be Nigel Farage by default? We all know about
:27:36. > :27:38.Nigel Farage but he's not a senior reassuring Government figure if
:27:39. > :27:43.nothing else so that I think is what David Cameron's managed to do. What
:27:44. > :27:46.he's also done is talked up the idea of opportunism saying, well if you
:27:47. > :27:51.want to oppose Europe on principle, do it now, come out and I can
:27:52. > :27:54.respect that. If you are doing it to be opportunistic, this is what he
:27:55. > :27:59.said in his memo, I won't tolerate that. That therefore means that
:28:00. > :28:11.those people who maybe are thinking it might be unfair advantage to back
:28:12. > :28:12.a winning no-campaign, have to be pretty sure they are going to win
:28:13. > :28:12.and that's not how they feel at the moment. I don't entirely agree. They
:28:13. > :28:15.don't have the option to come out because the Prime Minister's said
:28:16. > :28:20.no-one can come out. Chris Grayling... Sorry, no-one can come
:28:21. > :28:23.out in their true colours about wanting to leave until the
:28:24. > :28:27.negotiation's been completed so. There is no reason why Michael glove
:28:28. > :28:32.or Theresa May or anyone else should declare their position. It's also
:28:33. > :28:35.about the nature of the next leadership campaign in the
:28:36. > :28:41.Conservative Party and it may be the calculation of one or two people
:28:42. > :28:44.that the next leadership campaign will have a pro-Europe candidate
:28:45. > :28:49.who'll be George Osborne and there may be an anti-Europe candidate and
:28:50. > :28:53.the anti-Europe candidate may be well placed by being an anti-Europe
:28:54. > :28:59.candidate. It's really great that the future of our nation depends on
:29:00. > :29:05.Tory membership and whether they don't like croissants... I've heard
:29:06. > :29:09.many Tories making this argument, and we know activist Tory membership
:29:10. > :29:16.seems to be about 75% against Europe. What you are hypothecating
:29:17. > :29:20.on is that the country as a whole, deciding it wants to stay in, then
:29:21. > :29:24.the Tory party saying they are going to carry on arguing about this and I
:29:25. > :29:26.don't think there's public appetite for that at all. I think probably
:29:27. > :29:32.Conservative member also say yes, now is the time to unite and
:29:33. > :29:35.therefore, where people stood in the referendum campaign assuming there's
:29:36. > :29:38.a yes vote, will be quietly forgotten. That is possible, but
:29:39. > :29:43.that is the calculation people will be making at the moment. Although
:29:44. > :29:48.what you say is possible, it ain't necessarily so. I mean, it's quite
:29:49. > :29:51.hard to imagine that when this referendum is over, the Conservative
:29:52. > :29:58.Party is simply going to say... Never mind... That's all right then.
:29:59. > :30:00.Really, don't you think people are yearning for that. They have been
:30:01. > :30:05.going on about Europe for 40 years, they are not going to stop now. Your
:30:06. > :30:13.party used to go on about Europe a lot? We go on about other stuff now!
:30:14. > :30:19.I'll come on to that in a minute. 214 out of 232. It's perfectly true
:30:20. > :30:22.the referendum is really only about the Conservative Party but I think
:30:23. > :30:26.increasingly there'll be a feeling that the thing has not been very
:30:27. > :30:31.fairly played. I think that's going to be the problem, there'll be a
:30:32. > :30:39.residue. Will it be June? I think it will be September. September. Won't
:30:40. > :30:42.be able to rush for June? If he goes to June, he'll be riding rough shot
:30:43. > :30:45.over what the Electoral Commission think. June or July interferes with
:30:46. > :30:50.school holidays starting in Scotland. Everyone always says look
:30:51. > :30:54.you can't have another summer of migration then ask people to vote on
:30:55. > :31:00.Europe. I think the two problems are that one we have migration anyway.
:31:01. > :31:04.Would another summer change it that much? And two is it going to be the
:31:05. > :31:08.same, I don't think so. Europe is behaving differently. History won't
:31:09. > :31:15.repeat itself year on year in exactly the same way. If he tries to
:31:16. > :31:22.rush it through, should Labour help him?
:31:23. > :31:29.I don't think David Cameron really cares. A lot of Tory Eurosceptics
:31:30. > :31:34.will not want to rush it through. He might need Labour votes. They could
:31:35. > :31:37.be pivotal in this. The Scottish Nationalists have said they want
:31:38. > :31:44.help to get it through. A year ago I would say I wanted as quick as
:31:45. > :31:49.possible. But September is a fair amount of time. Ken Livingstone
:31:50. > :31:53.seems to think you could have a new position on Trident within 8-10
:31:54. > :32:01.weeks. I don't know what it's got to do with Ken Livingstone. He's
:32:02. > :32:04.running the review. It's a shame. He now has a Shadow Defence Secretary
:32:05. > :32:09.who agrees with him, as well as the leader. Ken Livingstone can't change
:32:10. > :32:13.the rules of the Labour Party, and we cannot change the rules until
:32:14. > :32:16.Conference, which will not be until September. Doesn't matter what Ken
:32:17. > :32:21.Livingstone says on the news. We have the rule. What about the move
:32:22. > :32:26.to have the NEC having much more power when it comes to determining
:32:27. > :32:30.policy. It still has to go to Conference, which isn't until
:32:31. > :32:34.September. They can't just decree to have more power. It's amazing how
:32:35. > :32:38.these are crepes are not turning into Democrats, saying they want
:32:39. > :32:46.centralised power. -- it's amazing how these Democrats. I would really
:32:47. > :32:50.like to have a go at being on the panel that manages the Labour Party.
:32:51. > :32:51.Not for all the delightful reasons I'm sure many people think, but I
:32:52. > :32:56.think we need to be more I'm sure many people think, but I
:32:57. > :32:58.campaigning force and to reconnect I'm sure many people think, but I
:32:59. > :33:04.in a way where we have obviously failed to do. I think I could help
:33:05. > :33:10.them with that. What do you think about the Guardian newspaper survey
:33:11. > :33:17.which shows that the membership, as opposed to the Parliamentary party,
:33:18. > :33:22.they are increasingly as his as Tikva Mr Corbyn. No surprise that is
:33:23. > :33:27.a news story, it's obvious. The membership is for Jeremy Corbyn,
:33:28. > :33:32.there's no two ways about it. He is the leader for the foreseeable
:33:33. > :33:36.future. Definitely. What do you make of the direction of travel? I
:33:37. > :33:40.thought the Labour Party made a serious decision in September and it
:33:41. > :33:43.will be followed through. We are seeing the party reinvent itself and
:33:44. > :33:49.I think more than half the members are new members as opposed to old
:33:50. > :33:51.members, and they support Jeremy Corbyn and his particular approach,
:33:52. > :33:56.and I think it will be tested all the way through until 2020. What
:33:57. > :34:00.they do about nuclear weapons, it's like the Tories on Europe, they will
:34:01. > :34:04.have to have a free vote effectively. What Mr Corbyn will try
:34:05. > :34:10.to do with his supporters, like Ken Livingstone, he will try to get as
:34:11. > :34:15.many MPs as possible shifting to an anti-position, knowing the party is
:34:16. > :34:19.following behind. Then he is aiming for the party Conference where he
:34:20. > :34:22.wants to change the Labour Party position and go into the next
:34:23. > :34:24.election with a unilateral position. The problem is, it hasn't won in the
:34:25. > :34:29.past. We will wait and see. Adam, The problem is, it hasn't won in the
:34:30. > :34:31.thank you for being with us. Now, Jeremy Corbyn's Twitter account
:34:32. > :34:33.was 'hacked' earlier this week causing untold stress
:34:34. > :34:35.in the leader's bunker. Would the prankster choose
:34:36. > :34:37.to misrepresent the 'new politics'? Twist the leader's words,
:34:38. > :34:39.undermine his position, make a mockery of his
:34:40. > :34:41.plans for the party? In the event Jezza needn't have
:34:42. > :34:44.worried, when the hacker posted a short, but highly accurate,
:34:45. > :34:51.tweet that went like this. Proving that you don't actually need
:34:52. > :34:55.140 characters to summarise the Labour leader's current
:34:56. > :34:57.thinking on defence. But which also means
:34:58. > :34:59.there are people out there with genuine worries
:35:00. > :35:01.and that's why we've decided to get serious, and put good mental
:35:02. > :35:08.health in this week's Spotlight. # Bet that you think
:35:09. > :35:11.that you're on your own. # And you've no one's
:35:12. > :35:14.hand to hold...# She's known for speaking her mind
:35:15. > :35:17.on mental health issues, so was singer Nicola
:35:18. > :35:20.Roberts pleased by David The Prime Minister says mental
:35:21. > :35:28.health is a government priority We need to take away that shame,
:35:29. > :35:31.that embarrassment. Let people know that they
:35:32. > :35:33.are not in this alone. They say he's the first
:35:34. > :35:36.Prime Minister to raise the issue But for those who claim services
:35:37. > :35:41.have been cut while demand has soared, is it still a case
:35:42. > :35:45.of the January Blues? There might be funding
:35:46. > :35:48.for new mums and for those with eating disorders,
:35:49. > :35:51.but with suicide the top cause are the chaps getting a fair
:35:52. > :35:56.share? Thanks to a Twitter campaign,
:35:57. > :35:59.Johnny Benjamin traced the man who stopped him from jumping off
:36:00. > :36:02.a bridge, and now the pair have launched their own mental health
:36:03. > :36:09.workshops in schools. There is an online petition
:36:10. > :36:10.underway to change the national curriculum too,
:36:11. > :36:13.so when the NHS is in a funk, maybe education is
:36:14. > :36:18.the key to sound minds. For Nicola Roberts,
:36:19. > :36:21.prevention is the best cure. And when it comes to talking
:36:22. > :36:26.about psychological issues in the classrooms, it's
:36:27. > :36:28.certainly boys allowed too. But the question remains,
:36:29. > :36:32.will mental and physical health care ever be
:36:33. > :36:46.thought of equally? Nicola Roberts singing, and she
:36:47. > :36:50.joins us now. Welcome to the programme. Why has good mental
:36:51. > :36:57.health care become a personal issue for you? I have actually seen
:36:58. > :37:02.clinical depression on a first-hand basis. When I was younger, someone
:37:03. > :37:07.very close to me was suffering from it, and it's a very ugly, monstrous
:37:08. > :37:18.thing, not only for the person dealing with it, but the family
:37:19. > :37:23.witnessing it. Now I work a lot with Barnardos, and it's important for
:37:24. > :37:27.them, different things children and young people go through, they might
:37:28. > :37:31.be victims of sexual exploitation, they might come from families of
:37:32. > :37:39.substance abuse, and the children are generally in despair. I think
:37:40. > :37:46.mental health in general, it's so massive, so huge here. Everywhere. I
:37:47. > :37:52.feel like with Barnardos I would like to see within schools, they
:37:53. > :37:58.become more of a life topic, so we talk about what is a healthy
:37:59. > :38:04.relationship. We can talk about sexual exploitation and sexual
:38:05. > :38:09.education topics. We can teach people about the fact we are all
:38:10. > :38:12.wired completely different. Everybody has a different brain and
:38:13. > :38:16.we all react to different things differently. We all have different
:38:17. > :38:26.sensitivities and pain thresholds. I feel like if we were taught more
:38:27. > :38:32.about the brain. You don't think we do enough for mental health care?
:38:33. > :38:37.Not at all. What are the particular problems we are not dealing enough
:38:38. > :38:41.with? People don't understand the way they are feeling. People don't
:38:42. > :38:46.understand the way other people are feeling. I feel like if it was
:38:47. > :38:50.talked about and understood more, there would be less bullying, more
:38:51. > :38:58.understanding in the world as a whole. We would be looking at each
:38:59. > :39:03.other as human beings who are all different and not categorising
:39:04. > :39:07.people. So it's a matter, not so much of resources, but reaching out.
:39:08. > :39:11.It is resources, because the training has to be there, the
:39:12. > :39:18.funding for the training has to be there. The teachers. Jess, you have
:39:19. > :39:23.been involved in this. I have, I worked for many years with children
:39:24. > :39:31.who were sexually exploited, women who had been, and men, involved in
:39:32. > :39:40.domestic violence. The strain on the mental health service, in a
:39:41. > :39:42.five-year period at Refuge, we saw an enormous increase in people who
:39:43. > :39:46.had attempted suicide and self harmed because services were
:39:47. > :39:51.shutting. The cuts come in and the crisis comes in. All we do in this
:39:52. > :39:55.country is talk about crisis care, but we never talk about prevention,
:39:56. > :39:59.we never try to stop somebody before they accelerate to a dangerous
:40:00. > :40:05.level. It doesn't make sense, we have society moving to a pressure
:40:06. > :40:13.cooker, with social media, celebrity obsessed. I feel like the resources
:40:14. > :40:17.cooker, with social media, celebrity are getting smaller. The problem is
:40:18. > :40:22.getting bigger, it's not balanced. Our people listening to you? It's
:40:23. > :40:26.something I've only just started to talk seriously with Barnardos about.
:40:27. > :40:39.I learned from the producer outside just now that there is a petition
:40:40. > :40:44.online. Nicky Morgan repeatedly says no to PHSE being compulsory in
:40:45. > :40:50.primary and secondary school, despite evidence to the contrary. If
:40:51. > :40:55.it gets 100,000 signatures it could be debated in Parliament. I think I
:40:56. > :41:00.bring it up almost every day. Nicky Morgan is sick of me asking the
:41:01. > :41:05.question. Is the idea that mental health in schools is treated the
:41:06. > :41:08.same way as sexual health? Healthy relationships and how we deal with
:41:09. > :41:17.young children who have complex needs, substance misuse at home, the
:41:18. > :41:19.toxic trio is what it's called that schools, it's the issue. At the
:41:20. > :41:25.moment, good schools are doing brilliant work, like the two young
:41:26. > :41:30.men on the video. But you don't have to do it. Lots of schools are not
:41:31. > :41:41.well enough resourced. It has to be done. A lot of people are saying,
:41:42. > :41:46.they don't want their child is subject to such information at a
:41:47. > :41:47.young age because they feel it's not relevant to their child. But it can
:41:48. > :41:52.be happening anywhere, you don't have to be in a big city. Your
:41:53. > :41:59.15-year-old daughter will be on social media. That leaves them
:42:00. > :42:06.exposed? Yes. A quick thought from Michael? We go back to the Prime
:42:07. > :42:09.Minister who raised the subject. I think mental health is substantially
:42:10. > :42:12.under resourced, but I do not see any sign from any political party
:42:13. > :42:17.that this will change. We discussed the junior doctors earlier, talking
:42:18. > :42:22.about redistributing resources to have doctors working around the
:42:23. > :42:25.clock. Nobody is saying we will cut down on Social Security, overseas
:42:26. > :42:32.aid, education, to move money to mental health. I would say that. We
:42:33. > :42:38.continue to run the highest deficit in the European Union. It's a
:42:39. > :42:45.campaign that your front, thank you for being with us tonight.
:42:46. > :42:49.But not for us because it's flood defence night at Lou Lou's
:42:50. > :42:51.which probably means it's been cancelled.
:42:52. > :42:53.So we leave you tonight with Sir Philip Dilley,
:42:54. > :42:54.the now-former ?100,000 a year, three-day-a-week Chairman
:42:55. > :42:59.When thousands of homes were under water over Christmas,
:43:00. > :43:02.A statement was issued claiming he was at home with his family,
:43:03. > :43:05.failing to mention that the home in question was his holiday
:43:06. > :43:09.A statement was then made explaining that he had family ties to Barbados,
:43:10. > :43:11.failing to mention that his wife was actually from Jamaica,
:43:12. > :43:19.Despite walking off from his job in an almighty huff this week,
:43:20. > :43:22.we think old Phil Dilley-Dallay on the Way has been unfairly
:43:23. > :43:26.After all, as these harrowing pictures prove, the water was gently
:43:27. > :43:32.Nighty night, don't let Rihanna's beach umbrella bite.
:43:33. > :43:35.# When the sun shines, we'll shine together
:43:36. > :43:43.# Took an oath, I'mma stick it out til the end
:43:44. > :43:45.# Now that it's raining more than ever
:43:46. > :43:49.# Know that we'll still have each other