:00:00. > :00:09.Tonight on This Week - join us for a paranormal edition
:00:10. > :00:16.Strange goings-on in the United States, as presidential
:00:17. > :00:19.hopefuls Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are victorious
:00:20. > :00:26.But are they the right people to help solve the world's problems?
:00:27. > :00:28.Former US State Department spokesman - and Clinton confidant -
:00:29. > :00:31.Jamie Rubin is This Week's special agent.
:00:32. > :00:35.The world is in crisis and even aliens would have trouble believing
:00:36. > :00:44.how desperately we need some real leaders.
:00:45. > :00:47.Back in Blighty, the Government imposes a new contract on junior
:00:48. > :00:52.doctors and the Labour Party is at war over the renewal of Trident.
:00:53. > :00:57.Looking for signs of alien life, the Guardian's Rafael Behr.
:00:58. > :00:59.Jeremy Corbyn is determined to send Labour back down the path
:01:00. > :01:01.of unilateral disarmament, which leaves
:01:02. > :01:08.some of his MPs wondering, what planet is he on?
:01:09. > :01:11.And, as TV royalty Mulder and Scully return to our screens,
:01:12. > :01:17.Singer Ronan Keating's in the This Week Zone.
:01:18. > :01:20.So, my new album is called Time Of My Life and,
:01:21. > :01:22.just to clarify, appearing on this show
:01:23. > :01:42.The truth is out there, but you won't find it on This Week.
:01:43. > :01:47.Welcome to This Week - a week in which we were told by some
:01:48. > :01:49.that Margaret Thatcher would vote to remain in the European Union
:01:50. > :01:52.and by others that she'd vote to leave.
:01:53. > :01:54.The message from beyond the grave was somewhat contradictory,
:01:55. > :01:58.which often happens when you consult different ouija boards.
:01:59. > :02:01.We've conjured up our own spirits and can confirm that Henry VIII,
:02:02. > :02:06.Elizabeth I and William the Conqueror are all up for staying
:02:07. > :02:13.Cromwell is for out, and Queen Victoria's a don't-know -
:02:14. > :02:18.she quite likes Europe but isn't too keen on her extended German family.
:02:19. > :02:21.As for Braveheart's William Wallace, well, I knew him well.
:02:22. > :02:23.We were born only two miles and seven centuries apart
:02:24. > :02:26.and his position has always been consistent - Scotland in,
:02:27. > :02:36.It's been an enervating referendum debate so far.
:02:37. > :02:39.Not only have both sides conjured up the dead in aid of their case
:02:40. > :02:42.but Call Me Dave has said, if we leave the EU, all of Kent
:02:43. > :02:45.will become a massive refugee camp, while Nigel Farage has said
:02:46. > :02:49.if we stay it won't be safe for women to walk the streets.
:02:50. > :02:52.You can see the arguments for and against are going to put
:02:53. > :02:58.In a late development, Lord Lawson has been dragooned
:02:59. > :03:01.in to head up one of the 48 Vote Leave factions,
:03:02. > :03:05.presumably because Lord Lucan is no longer available.
:03:06. > :03:08.Nope, Lucky Lucan's just contacted me on the astral plane
:03:09. > :03:13.Speaking of being dead wrong, I'm joined on the sofa tonight
:03:14. > :03:18.Think of them as the Cindy Crawford and the Derek Zoolander of late
:03:19. > :03:24.I speak of #fourpercent Liz "Miserables" Kendall
:03:25. > :03:31.and #sadmanonatrain Michael "Blue Steel" Portillo.
:03:32. > :03:42.Your moment of the week. David Cameron's prison reforms, two things
:03:43. > :03:45.struck me. First, extraordinary, the Conservative Party accepted this
:03:46. > :03:49.with scarcely a modem. Secondly, talking of Margaret Thatcher, when
:03:50. > :03:54.the Labour Party moved the left in the 1980s, she took the opportunity
:03:55. > :03:57.to move to the right. David Cameron has taken the opportunity to move to
:03:58. > :04:06.the centre, which seems more durable. My moment of the week is
:04:07. > :04:10.the same, but I actually saw the speech as a triumph, I would argue,
:04:11. > :04:15.for the kind of centre-left progressive arguments that my party
:04:16. > :04:20.has made over recent decades, just as the Tories are trying to claim
:04:21. > :04:24.issues like the minimum wage and equalities issues like gay marriage
:04:25. > :04:27.as their own. They are now trying to claim prison reform and I think
:04:28. > :04:34.that, while we will rightly hold them to account over whether the mob
:04:35. > :04:36.-- whether the reality matches the rhetoric, we should see it as a
:04:37. > :04:37.triumph for progressive values. Now, while the West tried to get
:04:38. > :04:41.Syrian peace talks off the ground in Geneva, President Assad,
:04:42. > :04:43.backed by Russian air power, Iranian Revolutionary Guards
:04:44. > :04:44.and Hezbollah militia launched a major assault in the region around
:04:45. > :04:49.Aleppo, Syria's biggest city, triggering a fresh wave of refugees
:04:50. > :04:54.to make the trek to the Turkish many will doubtless
:04:55. > :04:57.try to head for Europe. It's hard to see why the Assad
:04:58. > :05:00.regime or the Russians would return to the peace table when they
:05:01. > :05:06.think they're winning. But America is in the throes of one
:05:07. > :05:09.of the most bizarre presidential races of all times, Britain is busy
:05:10. > :05:12.toying with leaving the EU and Germany is mired
:05:13. > :05:15.in the migrant crisis. So from where will the leadership
:05:16. > :05:17.come to steer us through Here's Bill Clinton's former
:05:18. > :05:23.Adviser, James Rubin, Winston Churchill may be the world's
:05:24. > :05:37.most famous cigar smoker but nowadays he is revered
:05:38. > :05:40.for something else, for being a truth teller
:05:41. > :05:44.and an inspiration during some of the lowest moments
:05:45. > :05:52.of World War II. His kind of leadership helped create
:05:53. > :05:55.a system that's kept us safe here in Europe and Asia
:05:56. > :05:59.for 70 years now. We sure could use that kind
:06:00. > :06:02.of leadership right now. The painful truth is we are facing
:06:03. > :06:06.one catastrophe after another. After 9/11, we vowed to never again
:06:07. > :06:13.let a group like Al-Qaeda have a home base to organise
:06:14. > :06:17.and train for terrorist attacks. But Isis has had just that
:06:18. > :06:28.for more than a year. We all remember
:06:29. > :06:30.the failures of Iraq. No weapons of mass destruction,
:06:31. > :06:32.12 years of civil war, But maybe even worse is the way
:06:33. > :06:38.the war shattered the confidence of our leaders, who worry
:06:39. > :06:41.when they want to do something Millions are threatened,
:06:42. > :06:57.millions are on the move. Wave after wave of refugees just
:06:58. > :07:05.keep coming to Europe's shores. The one world leader who does act
:07:06. > :07:09.is Russia's Vladimir Putin. He saw the West's abdication
:07:10. > :07:14.as an opening, and the Russian military has been working
:07:15. > :07:18.with Bashar Assad. They have been slaughtering
:07:19. > :07:20.the Syrian opposition Yes, we've got some
:07:21. > :07:30.real big problems, some And we are all desperate
:07:31. > :07:44.for some real leaders. So who are the American people
:07:45. > :07:47.electing to the world's most important job, the one person
:07:48. > :07:52.who could lead in a time of crisis? Yes, that's right, Bernie Sanders
:07:53. > :07:55.and Donald Trump are going to command the most complex mix
:07:56. > :07:59.of military, diplomatic and intelligence resources
:08:00. > :08:06.the world has ever known. It would be funny if it
:08:07. > :08:15.wasn't so serious. From James J Fox, cigar merchants
:08:16. > :08:18.to Sir Winston Churchill, on St James's to lighting up
:08:19. > :08:33.behind our little bike shed Welcome back. Your hope for US
:08:34. > :08:39.leadership, let's be clear, if it is Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders,
:08:40. > :08:45.America's global leadership role is over, isn't it? In their own ways,
:08:46. > :08:50.that is right, but, remember, the last eight years under President
:08:51. > :08:55.Obama, who came after President Bush, I think we have seen the world
:08:56. > :09:01.paralysed from real action. I saw a report today that we are over
:09:02. > :09:06.400,000 dead in Syria and the west is, I think there is more concerned
:09:07. > :09:11.about some confrontation with Russia than they are about resolving the
:09:12. > :09:16.problem. Imagine during the Cuban -- Cuban missile crisis or Poland or
:09:17. > :09:20.solidarity or the war in Afghanistan, is the only thing be
:09:21. > :09:24.leaders in the west were worried about was upsetting the Russians.
:09:25. > :09:30.The world would have worried out -- ended up a lot different. If there
:09:31. > :09:34.was to be a huge withdrawal, a lack of American leadership, it would in
:09:35. > :09:37.a way the continuation of the last eight years? There have been many
:09:38. > :09:44.times in foreign policy where Mr Obama has seemed disengaged, and
:09:45. > :09:48.willing to lead. I think that is there, but I wouldn't just put it on
:09:49. > :09:53.Obama. The entire west and almost everyone I know who, prior to the
:09:54. > :09:57.Iraq war, would talk about what we could and couldn't do and should and
:09:58. > :10:04.shouldn't do, has suffered from a post-Iraq syndrome. The war went so
:10:05. > :10:08.badly, we did everything is so wrong, that people think every new
:10:09. > :10:14.situation is in Iraq, even when it isn't. Hillary Clinton has the
:10:15. > :10:18.experience as secretary of state. She's been around a long time. But
:10:19. > :10:24.leaders need to inspire, and she isn't inspiring the American people,
:10:25. > :10:31.is she? She lost the New Hampshire primary. I never quite well, I
:10:32. > :10:34.worked for her husband. When Bill Clinton was president, the United
:10:35. > :10:39.States was criticised for being too much a leader. We were called a
:10:40. > :10:43.hyperpower by the French and we were involved in many activities, but
:10:44. > :10:47.things worked out pretty well. We were able to inspire other
:10:48. > :10:51.countries, and that is the key, not trying to do it ourselves but to
:10:52. > :10:56.convince other countries of why it is important to do things. The
:10:57. > :10:59.American people are angry with mainstream American politics, on the
:11:00. > :11:05.left and the right. She is the establishment continuity candidate.
:11:06. > :11:08.Have you heard what I just said about Donald Trump and Bernie
:11:09. > :11:15.Sanders? I don't think we should assume that, as of now, the American
:11:16. > :11:20.people have made good choices. She is billing herself as the chance to
:11:21. > :11:24.be America's first woman president but, in New Hampshire, she couldn't
:11:25. > :11:31.even get a majority of women to vote for her. She lost 55-44 among women.
:11:32. > :11:38.Among young women, she lost out to a 74-year-old man AG-20. What she is
:11:39. > :11:44.facing is politicians not just in the US but across Europe, to this
:11:45. > :11:53.rise in populism on the left and be right. -- 80-20. They are tapping
:11:54. > :11:57.into this sense of anger. The populists are coming up with a
:11:58. > :12:02.simple analysis and simple solutions, and the challenge for
:12:03. > :12:05.Hillary, as the moderate politicians everywhere, is to understand that
:12:06. > :12:09.anger and frustration, which is real, but to come up with workable
:12:10. > :12:16.solutions and somehow break free of this movement between rationalism on
:12:17. > :12:20.the right and nostalgia on the left. It was interesting that, after the
:12:21. > :12:23.New Hampshire primary, she said that people are angry and rightly so but
:12:24. > :12:31.they are hungry for change and the change which works. -- nationalism
:12:32. > :12:36.on the right. She said that at 2am London time, when it was too late to
:12:37. > :12:41.influence the result. Mr Trump has gone from being dismissed as a flash
:12:42. > :12:45.in the pan to being the man to beat for the Republican primaries. Mrs
:12:46. > :12:49.Clinton is still the likely Democrat candidate but, if Mr Sanders does
:12:50. > :12:55.well in Nevada and South Carolina, even that is not certain. You cannot
:12:56. > :13:01.rule out a Trump versus Sanders presidential election. I think that
:13:02. > :13:10.is what Jamie was saying. It is remarkable. Horrifying. What a
:13:11. > :13:14.paradoxical outcome it is to be west winning the Cold War that now
:13:15. > :13:20.Russia, because we are no longer in a situation of mutually assured
:13:21. > :13:27.destruction, in a stand-off, that Russia can bomb citizens in Syria,
:13:28. > :13:30.in Aleppo, can drive thousands of people into Turkey, who are then
:13:31. > :13:35.moving into Europe, creating an enormous problem for us, and we have
:13:36. > :13:38.nothing to say about it. Not only nothing to do about it but literally
:13:39. > :13:43.nothing to say. It is an enormous paradox.
:13:44. > :13:54.Vladimir Putin has filled the vacuum left by the West. It may, in Syria,
:13:55. > :13:58.be too late to stop him. It has been five years. Whenever we have reached
:13:59. > :14:04.a crisis point we have imagined it could not get worse, and it has
:14:05. > :14:08.done, every time. We are now at a cataclysmic effect of the Syrian
:14:09. > :14:13.war, not just on Europe. We don't know where these people are going to
:14:14. > :14:18.go next. Right now, they are hungry for a shorter land on. They are not
:14:19. > :14:23.angry yet. Wait until these millions of people are angry. There are so
:14:24. > :14:27.many possibilities. What I would say is that it is not too late for the
:14:28. > :14:33.world to gather together and say, we have two big problems. Isis. We said
:14:34. > :14:37.never again will there be a home base for terrorism, we will never
:14:38. > :14:42.allow it the way they set up 9/11, Afghanistan. It has been 18 months
:14:43. > :14:46.and we have not done enough to fix it. If we were to really do
:14:47. > :14:52.something about Isis and show willingness to do it, Syria would be
:14:53. > :14:57.easier. But right now, those issues are so confused that everybody is
:14:58. > :15:01.paralysed. You made the point that paralysis is that we do not want
:15:02. > :15:05.another Iraq. The assumption is not correct because it might not be
:15:06. > :15:07.another Iraq, you said. But probably, the chances are it would
:15:08. > :15:12.be another Iraq. That probably, the chances are it would
:15:13. > :15:17.problem. It has not just been Iraq, but also Libya was
:15:18. > :15:23.problem. It has not just been Iraq, luckily has reversed itself.
:15:24. > :15:25.problem. It has not just been Iraq, gone back to dictatorship. It
:15:26. > :15:28.problem. It has not just been Iraq, not an intervention, so let's
:15:29. > :15:30.problem. It has not just been Iraq, mix apples and oranges. But a
:15:31. > :15:31.problem. It has not just been Iraq, rational human being might say if we
:15:32. > :15:36.intervene in Syria, chances are it rational human being might say if we
:15:37. > :15:38.would be another Iraq and ending catastrophe. You need to ask what
:15:39. > :15:43.the costs catastrophe. You need to ask what
:15:44. > :15:45.nothing. The costs are so high right now, but that does not mean we
:15:46. > :15:50.should intervene blindly. now, but that does not mean we
:15:51. > :15:56.learn the lessons of Iraq. Won't exaggerate the intelligence, don't
:15:57. > :16:02.minimise the challenge of deploying for a long time, and most of all
:16:03. > :16:04.make sure you have a lot of people around the world with you
:16:05. > :16:07.make sure you have a lot of people than going alone. With those
:16:08. > :16:14.principles, there is no need for us to assume it is going to be Iraq.
:16:15. > :16:21.You would need a kind of American empire, to run the country for a
:16:22. > :16:27.long time. This dreadful humanitarian crisis that is emerging
:16:28. > :16:32.in Syria at the moment, each time it gets worse. But each time, we miss
:16:33. > :16:38.an opportunity to take the right action. And actually, it was Hillary
:16:39. > :16:43.Clinton back in 2012 who was arguing to Barack Obama that we needed to
:16:44. > :16:48.support the anti-Assad generals. Who knows whether that could have made a
:16:49. > :16:52.difference? I believe it might have done, and it also makes me think
:16:53. > :17:00.about in Britain our lack of action early doors against what Assad was
:17:01. > :17:06.doing. Obama set his red line about chemical weapons and when Putin saw
:17:07. > :17:13.no action taken, he put that together. Secretary of State Kerry
:17:14. > :17:18.is saying he thinks he has brokered a ceasefire with the Russians, but
:17:19. > :17:23.what Mr Putin does, he sends his Foreign Secretary to do endless
:17:24. > :17:27.peace talks, and meanwhile his troops continue to advance, his
:17:28. > :17:33.aircraft continue to advance with ground support and they continue to
:17:34. > :17:37.take more land. Secretary Kerry is working hard but he does not have a
:17:38. > :17:42.lot of leveraged. The Russians talk to him, as you say. They do not want
:17:43. > :17:47.to appear to be not interested in talking, but they have all of the
:17:48. > :17:50.leveraged. The only way this will be resolved is when we apply both
:17:51. > :17:55.diplomatic, political and military leveraged together. If Russia does
:17:56. > :18:01.all of those things, the outcome will be in Assad's favour. That is
:18:02. > :18:07.the way we are going, isn't it? That will not be good for any of us. And
:18:08. > :18:11.it will not deal with the underlying issue of Isis being able to position
:18:12. > :18:16.itself as the protector and saviour of Sunni Muslims. The two are
:18:17. > :18:18.inextricably linked. Good to see you.
:18:19. > :18:19.Now, it's late, black-holes-colliding late.
:18:20. > :18:21.But don't let the gravitational wave send you to sleep.
:18:22. > :18:23.Because waiting in the wings, a ripple of excitement
:18:24. > :18:26.in the This Week space-time continuum has been detected.
:18:27. > :18:29.to talk about just how underwhelming the nibbles
:18:30. > :18:34.And, as always, we are immediately deleting all your comments
:18:35. > :18:36.on The Twitter, the Fleecebook, SnapDrivel, InstaGranny
:18:37. > :18:41.and Gordon Brown's intergalactic websphere.
:18:42. > :18:44.Now, we know watching This Week often feels like entering an altered
:18:45. > :18:48.So when one MP, following a bitter Parliamentary Labour Party
:18:49. > :18:51.meeting on Monday night, described her party's anti-Trident
:18:52. > :18:54.Shadow Defence Secretary, Emily Thornberry as living
:18:55. > :18:58.in "La-La land", we took it as a compliment.
:18:59. > :19:02.we're still waiting for our invitation from Emily to take tea
:19:03. > :19:06.in La-La land, to pick our brains on defence policy.
:19:07. > :19:08.So in the meantime we sent the Guardian's Rafael Behr along
:19:09. > :19:12.to the Wigwam on top of The Queen of Hoxton in East London
:19:13. > :19:25.This is his loved-up, spaced-out round-up of the week.
:19:26. > :19:41.MUSIC: White Rabbit by Jefferson Airplane.
:19:42. > :19:46.Welcome to the wigwam of love and understanding.
:19:47. > :19:49.This is a place with no negative vibes.
:19:50. > :19:53.Here, we are all groovy, mellow, like David Cameron.
:19:54. > :19:59.Remember how before he was Prime Minister,
:20:00. > :20:02.Cameron wanted to be a different kind of Conservative,
:20:03. > :20:06.liberal, compassionate, hoodie hugging?
:20:07. > :20:08.Well, on Monday, that guy was back with a
:20:09. > :20:11.speech on prison reform and rehabilitation.
:20:12. > :20:13.The system was letting convicts down, he said.
:20:14. > :20:20.We need a prison system that doesn't see prisoners simply as liabilities
:20:21. > :20:24.to be managed but instead as potential assets to be harnessed.
:20:25. > :20:32.# One pill makes you larger and one pill makes you small...#
:20:33. > :20:35.It was all a bit of a throwback to 2006
:20:36. > :20:39.and Cameron's eco-friendly, organic smoothie days.
:20:40. > :20:42.And that, say Downing Street aides, is exactly the point.
:20:43. > :20:46.The PM knows he's not going to be in Number Ten
:20:47. > :20:51.He hasn't quite given up on that Big Society dream.
:20:52. > :20:54.He wants to go down in history as a caring kind of Conservative.
:20:55. > :20:57.Fat chance of that, say Labour, when the Government is slashing
:20:58. > :21:03.The Daily Mirror reported that even David Cameron's mum had
:21:04. > :21:06.signed a petition against cuts to her local children's services.
:21:07. > :21:10.Then his aunt went on ITV News and pleaded for the cuts to stop.
:21:11. > :21:17.It's just, like, one big happy family, man.
:21:18. > :21:20.REPORTER: The council say it's David Cameron's fault.
:21:21. > :21:22.I know. They've got to work that out.
:21:23. > :21:25.I think the cuts are a great, great error.
:21:26. > :21:33.At least you can rely on Jeremy Corbyn to be for peace.
:21:34. > :21:36.The CND vice president and Labour leader hates conflict so much
:21:37. > :21:38.he didn't even turn up to a fractious meeting of Labour
:21:39. > :21:41.MPs, where Shadow Defence Secretary, Emily Thornberry, was setting out
:21:42. > :21:53.An awful lot of people under 40 do ask what
:21:54. > :21:57.What I would like to do is leave the 1980s behind.
:21:58. > :22:00.Let's talk about what the best way of having a modern defence
:22:01. > :22:07.Most Labour MPs think going back to a policy of unilateral
:22:08. > :22:09.disarmament would nuke the party's chances of winning
:22:10. > :22:19.# When the men on the chessboard get up and tell you where to go...#
:22:20. > :22:22.And when Thornberry said Trident might one day be as pointless
:22:23. > :22:27.as a Spitfire, well, that went down like a Messerschmitt over Kent.
:22:28. > :22:30.It also gave Cameron plenty of ammunition for PMQs.
:22:31. > :22:33.Another week, another completely ludicrous Labour
:22:34. > :22:38.I think the last word should go to the
:22:39. > :22:40.honourable member for Bridge End, and thank you, Twitter,
:22:41. > :22:44.who, as she came out of the PLP meeting tweeted this,
:22:45. > :22:46."Oh, dear, oh, dear, oh, my God, oh dear, oh dear.
:22:47. > :22:48."Need to go to rest in a darkened room."
:22:49. > :22:52.I expect she'll find the rest of her party will be there with her.
:22:53. > :22:56.# And you've just had some kind of mushroom
:22:57. > :23:00.# And your mind is moving low...#
:23:01. > :23:07.Oh, there it is, on Jeremy Corbyn's lapel.
:23:08. > :23:11.It's a badge that says "heart unions".
:23:12. > :23:13.This is all part of a campaign against the Government bill that
:23:14. > :23:16.Labour says would wreck workers' rights and
:23:17. > :23:21.Now, some people wondered why, if solidarity was the theme
:23:22. > :23:24.of the day, Corbyn hadn't raised the junior doctors' strike.
:23:25. > :23:27.It was, after all, the second 24-hour walk-out in protest
:23:28. > :23:32.against Jeremy Hunt's efforts to change staff contracts.
:23:33. > :23:34.The definition of negotiation is a discussion where both sides
:23:35. > :23:38.demonstrate flexibility and compromise on their
:23:39. > :23:49.And the BMA ultimately proved unwilling to do this.
:23:50. > :24:06.Hunt really needed this dispute over, but it's
:24:07. > :24:10.risky for the Tories to look like they are bullying NHS staff.
:24:11. > :24:22.Public opinion seems to be on the side of
:24:23. > :24:24.Surveys suggests a lot of people aren't
:24:25. > :24:27.convinced he's getting a good deal, and a couple have even showed
:24:28. > :24:34."Stay cool", say the in crowd, David Cameron might have a couple
:24:35. > :24:40.more tricks up his sleeve to persuade the sceptics.
:24:41. > :24:46.# When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead...#
:24:47. > :24:49.By the end of next week, Cameron is going to
:24:50. > :24:51.Brussels again and Number Ten say they are confident he's
:24:52. > :24:56.But whatever he does bring back, it's not going to bring peace
:24:57. > :25:01.And then he has to sell it to a sceptical
:25:02. > :25:04.country, where a lot of people seem to be in the mood to stick two
:25:05. > :25:14.Raphael Behr there, at the Wigwam on top of the Queen of Hoxton
:25:15. > :25:24.and Green Party London mayoral candidate, Sian Berry.
:25:25. > :25:32.Just before we move on, to keep you in the loop with the discussion we
:25:33. > :25:39.had, we are now reporting that an agreement has been put in place
:25:40. > :25:43.among the 17 nation Syria support group, meeting in Munich tonight,
:25:44. > :25:48.that humanitarian aid will start in Syria on Saturday but the ceasefire
:25:49. > :25:51.will not follow for another week. Lets CF that happens and what Russia
:25:52. > :25:54.will not follow for another week. does in that week around Aleppo. --
:25:55. > :25:59.lets see if that happens. Junior does in that week around Aleppo. --
:26:00. > :26:06.doctors, how do you impose a contract? Well, the Government seems
:26:07. > :26:07.to think it can and the BMA does not dispute it is possible. People are
:26:08. > :26:12.told the terms under which they dispute it is possible. People are
:26:13. > :26:18.working. It is highly undesirable. If they are really angry, will they
:26:19. > :26:23.not just work-to-rule, or continue industrial action? Does it really
:26:24. > :26:28.resolve things? I very much doubt whether they would do that over a
:26:29. > :26:32.long period of time. It does not resolve it in that if morale is part
:26:33. > :26:37.of the issue it is probably the worst possible outcome. I suppose it
:26:38. > :26:41.resulted in that they know what they are working for. It is a highly
:26:42. > :26:46.puzzling dispute, because the two sides do not appear to be miles
:26:47. > :26:51.apart. As I understood it, the BMA the other day was talking about
:26:52. > :26:55.juggling the money. They are being offered an 11% overall increase, and
:26:56. > :27:00.they were saying, make it a lower overall increase and boost the
:27:01. > :27:05.Saturday premium. It seems the sort of dispute that in any other
:27:06. > :27:09.situation would be settled. It is a massive failure for Jeremy Hunt and
:27:10. > :27:13.Cameron. He has the doctors against him, when he desperately needs their
:27:14. > :27:18.support for changes in the NHS to cope with pressures in future. It is
:27:19. > :27:22.a strategic political error because David Cameron needs the public to
:27:23. > :27:27.trust him on the NHS. That is what he has been trying to do ever since
:27:28. > :27:33.becoming leader. Jeremy Hunt has picked, I think, the wrong fight
:27:34. > :27:38.with the wrong people here. There is all this talk about excess deaths at
:27:39. > :27:42.weekends, but there is no evidence that it is June to the number of
:27:43. > :27:45.junior doctors, who might actually look at what else needs to be done
:27:46. > :27:52.in terms of consultants and working hours. It is a big strategic error
:27:53. > :27:57.for them and he needs to move to get this sorted out. Do you think he is
:27:58. > :28:02.serious about this or is it being done to concentrate minds? He is not
:28:03. > :28:08.doing it until August. Will he get some kind of agreement?
:28:09. > :28:14.It is a bizarre move to make when, in public opinion turns, the junior
:28:15. > :28:18.doctors are winning. I was on the picket line with them this week.
:28:19. > :28:22.Their social media efforts are extraordinary. They are making the
:28:23. > :28:27.case for the fact that they are striking because of safety, not the
:28:28. > :28:31.money. It is about the terms on which they work, patient safety. It
:28:32. > :28:36.is everything that they are doing right. It sounds like, if they were
:28:37. > :28:40.offered more money, they would settle. It is about the terms on
:28:41. > :28:47.which they work over the weekend, the length of shifts. It sounds like
:28:48. > :28:53.if they were offered overtime rates of Saturday, that would bring bistro
:28:54. > :28:58.to an end. I don't think that is the only issue. -- it would bring the
:28:59. > :29:03.strike to an end. It is about the length of shifts, the amount of
:29:04. > :29:06.tiredness. They work the longest hours of anybody, junior doctors. It
:29:07. > :29:11.is a huge mistake to impose the contract. It is a huge problem for
:29:12. > :29:17.Jeremy Hunt and I think the writing may be on the wall for him. People
:29:18. > :29:21.don't like the way he has spun the evidence on excess deaths at the
:29:22. > :29:24.weekend, but we also saw today that he said all of those cheap
:29:25. > :29:29.executives had agreed with him. Half of them have now said they don't.
:29:30. > :29:33.That doesn't build trust. He has got massive challenges in the NHS, and
:29:34. > :29:40.anybody needs to bring the staff with them. The Tories never win when
:29:41. > :29:45.the NHS is in the headlines. It is not an issue that they win. It is a
:29:46. > :29:48.political error. In the last government, they did the Andrew
:29:49. > :29:53.Lansley reforms, and nobody really understands what he did. Now they
:29:54. > :29:57.have a fight, whether they picked it or not, with the junior doctors in
:29:58. > :30:04.the headlines. Strategically, not good politics. I entirely agree with
:30:05. > :30:08.that. The Andrew Lansley reforms, in the end, none of us knew what they
:30:09. > :30:13.were about, or whether they achieved anything. I am afraid this very
:30:14. > :30:16.confused dispute is rather in the same territory and none of us really
:30:17. > :30:23.understand why it is worth the candle. The idea that we didn't have
:30:24. > :30:28.a seven-day NHS in the first place is ludicrous. If you want to get
:30:29. > :30:33.extra operations at the weekend, the consultants, the diagnostic staff...
:30:34. > :30:38.He would have had to do deals with all of them. There is no point just
:30:39. > :30:44.having the junior doctors in if you don't have the consultants, the
:30:45. > :30:49.blood test staff... Jeremy Hunt thinks he can give some sort of
:30:50. > :30:52.slick PR story about what is happening but doctors are not stupid
:30:53. > :30:57.and the public supports them. Were you at the parliamentary Labour
:30:58. > :31:05.meeting when the Shadow Defence Secretary compared trying to
:31:06. > :31:10.Spitfire? I was. What did you think? I am in favour of renewing Trident.
:31:11. > :31:16.I think you can make a principled position that you can lead
:31:17. > :31:21.multilateral disarmament but I also think you can make a principled case
:31:22. > :31:26.against. What you can't do is to say that it is not a binary decision and
:31:27. > :31:29.there is somehow a fudge like having submarines without weapons on. I
:31:30. > :31:34.think it is important that we have this debate out, we respect each
:31:35. > :31:40.other's different principles, but I don't believe there is a halfway
:31:41. > :31:43.house. Mr Corbyn is against renewing Trident and Emily Thornberry is
:31:44. > :31:47.against it, the Green Party is against it. Isn't there a danger
:31:48. > :31:55.that Mr Corbyn's Labour Party is moving on to your territory? It is a
:31:56. > :31:56.good thing that we have movement on renationalising the railways,
:31:57. > :32:03.Trident, we would like them to move further on reforming electoral
:32:04. > :32:08.rules, having more PR in Parliament. We are pushing them hard. Are you
:32:09. > :32:14.losing members to the Labour Party? No. I think the people moving into
:32:15. > :32:17.the Labour Party are, to some extent, there is an overlap with
:32:18. > :32:21.people who moved into the Green Party, we are part of the same
:32:22. > :32:27.movement of people looking for a new style of politics and leadership and
:32:28. > :32:35.more participation. So you are happy? It is the same as with Bernie
:32:36. > :32:38.Sanders. I want to ask you about Europe, when you hear what the Prime
:32:39. > :32:43.Minister is saying about the case for staying in, do you think he is
:32:44. > :32:49.getting desperate? I hope that is how it will appear. This thing about
:32:50. > :32:53.the France camps reappearing in southern Britain, I thought it was
:32:54. > :32:57.ludicrous, and then the Telegraph came out with a good riposte to it
:32:58. > :33:01.the next day, building on what the French government had said. In this
:33:02. > :33:07.referendum, I am afraid we are going to see the lowest common and are
:33:08. > :33:12.nominated, the most, the bassist, most ludicrous arguments being made
:33:13. > :33:17.on both sides. Is your leader going to campaign to stay in? Our party
:33:18. > :33:23.position is, I don't know what Jeremy is planning to do... That
:33:24. > :33:28.doesn't say much about him. We have Alan Johnson leading the campaign.
:33:29. > :33:32.It is going to be a disaster if this is a negative campaign full of
:33:33. > :33:39.risks. We have to make a positive case for Europe. You don't get that.
:33:40. > :33:42.What about the Greens? Caroline Lucas this week has
:33:43. > :33:45.What about the Greens? Caroline number of different movement around
:33:46. > :33:50.Europe for rip-roaring Europe. We have to make a positive case for
:33:51. > :33:52.Europe as it could be. -- for reforming Europe. We
:33:53. > :33:55.Europe as it could be. -- for but we are not
:33:56. > :33:57.Europe as it could be. -- for democracy in Europe at the moment,
:33:58. > :34:00.Europe as it could be. -- for the secrecy around negotiations
:34:01. > :34:04.Europe as it could be. -- for TT IP. Is there an appetite
:34:05. > :34:07.Europe as it could be. -- for reform? There is
:34:08. > :34:11.Europe as it could be. -- for austerity being imposed on Greece, a
:34:12. > :34:13.Europe as it could be. -- for happen to their country as well. A
:34:14. > :34:17.big appetite happen to their country as well. A
:34:18. > :34:21.making it more democratic. It is an opaque kind of thing, the EU, how it
:34:22. > :34:23.works is complicated. It could be more democratic.
:34:24. > :34:26.Now, some people have the barefaced cheek to accuse This Week of living
:34:27. > :34:29.in a "Westminster bubble", disconnected from the real world,
:34:30. > :34:30.blind to the hardships of hard-working families,
:34:31. > :34:32.aloof from the humdrum drudgery of modern life,
:34:33. > :34:39.unaware of the daily grind of the struggling hoi polloi.
:34:40. > :34:41.And that's why we're putting "the red carpet treatment"
:34:42. > :34:51.I do the school run, of course I do, and then on Saturdays our ritual
:34:52. > :34:53.is to go to the Pizza Hut in Windsor.
:34:54. > :34:56.Elton claims he's just a regular stuffed crust dad but,
:34:57. > :34:59.if you're used to the finer things in life, how easy is it
:35:00. > :35:04.Don't bother asking Egypt's President al-Sisi whose
:35:05. > :35:07.motorcade drove down a two and a half mile long red carpet this
:35:08. > :35:12.week on a trip to open a social housing project in Cairo.
:35:13. > :35:19.Why are the best things in life always free -
:35:20. > :35:25.This year's Oscar goodie bags are worth $200,000 each so,
:35:26. > :35:31.if you are a big deal, it turns out you get a great deal.
:35:32. > :35:35.It was revealed this week that British civil servants have been
:35:36. > :35:36.accepting free gifts such as Wimbledon tickets,
:35:37. > :35:42.Austerity certainly wasn't on display on Monday night
:35:43. > :35:45.at the Tories' black and white ball, where the party's super-rich bank
:35:46. > :35:50.rollers received a lavish, well-fed welcome.
:35:51. > :35:54.# Teenage nights, tickets stops, cinema lines # Catching the bus,
:35:55. > :36:02.So, still busking it, even after 60 million album sales,
:36:03. > :36:03.Ronan Keating says that, deep down, he's still
:36:04. > :36:09.So how do you keep your feet on the ground if you are constantly
:36:10. > :36:28.Ronan Keating, welcome. You probably know Elton John better
:36:29. > :36:33.than we do. Is he a man who dines out at Pizza Hut? I get the idea you
:36:34. > :36:39.might bring the boys out to Pizza Hut. We looked and we couldn't find
:36:40. > :36:45.a Pizza Hut in Windsor. Maybe it was Pizza Express. He may sit in the car
:36:46. > :36:49.but I think he would like the idea. There is a temptation for
:36:50. > :36:55.successful, wealthy people to sort of burnish their man of the people
:36:56. > :36:59.credentials, isn't there? I guess so, yeah. It is a two-way street,
:37:00. > :37:03.definitely. You want to keep your street on the ground that your feet
:37:04. > :37:07.on the ground and keep the same people around you that you always
:37:08. > :37:13.had, your friends and family. But then you get to a situation where it
:37:14. > :37:17.becomes fickle, people pretend to be your friends, and it is a hard place
:37:18. > :37:23.to be. When you are successful, they are all around you. When you are
:37:24. > :37:29.not, they are not. It is a key. You find out who your real friends are.
:37:30. > :37:35.-- it is tricky. When you were very young, was it hard to keep your feet
:37:36. > :37:40.on the ground? I was 16 when I joined Boyzone and we were real
:37:41. > :37:45.mummy's boys. We loved flying back to Dublin as often as we could. We
:37:46. > :37:48.would come to London and fly back on the next -- the last flight and the
:37:49. > :37:53.next morning we would get up and do the same thing. You can sleep in
:37:54. > :38:00.your own bed and see your mum and dad. That kept us grounded. 100%.
:38:01. > :38:06.But as we got older and we travelled more, and the fame got greater,
:38:07. > :38:11.yeah, things changed, the landscape changed. Do you remember the first
:38:12. > :38:18.time you walked down a red carpet? I do. Did you think, oh, yeah? Lee the
:38:19. > :38:26.first smash its cover, the first time on top of the Pops... Smash
:38:27. > :38:33.hits! Getting free stuff never gets boring. Just wait till you see the
:38:34. > :38:41.This Week goody bag. Bottles of blue nun everywhere. You have been famous
:38:42. > :38:47.for 25 years. Yeah, it is crazy. Have you got used to it? I don't
:38:48. > :38:53.know any different. We have to deal with dealers all the time on this
:38:54. > :38:56.programme, as you can see. -- with dealers. You have never given the
:38:57. > :39:05.impression of being high maintenance. I have never been high
:39:06. > :39:11.maintenance. But we hear demands, one American singer has to have
:39:12. > :39:16.white candles in the hotel lobby. I am convinced they just try this and
:39:17. > :39:20.people do it. That's what I think it is, put on crazy riders, dressing
:39:21. > :39:26.room riders, asked for blue M or whatever. Is that what they are
:39:27. > :39:34.called? They call them riders. It is in the contract. I think they do it
:39:35. > :39:38.to wind people up. Separate out the different colour M? It is like
:39:39. > :39:44.they are not going to do the gig otherwise. You have to call their
:39:45. > :39:51.bluff. There is a lesson for everybody, except with me. When you
:39:52. > :39:57.sat on the ministerial limo for the first time, did you think, I needed
:39:58. > :40:02.that? I may have done but, on the question of freebies, the Queen, I
:40:03. > :40:12.think, twice a year, used to give us some venison, a quarter of it from
:40:13. > :40:16.the royal parks. As a minister? Ministers get it, maybe not any
:40:17. > :40:21.more, but we used to get that. When you got the letter telling you, it
:40:22. > :40:26.said very pompously, on behalf of Her Majesty, I am commanded to tell
:40:27. > :40:33.you you have been given this. If you wish to accept this, please send a
:40:34. > :40:39.cheque for ?7 77 to cover the postage because the Queen couldn't
:40:40. > :40:46.cover that. Do you think you are in a Westminster bubble? You can be.
:40:47. > :40:50.But MPs, unlike journalists, you go back to your constituencies. You
:40:51. > :40:53.have your surgeries and you have your community events and people are
:40:54. > :40:57.never shy of telling you exactly what they think about you
:40:58. > :41:02.personally, your profession, and I say good on them. And you are in
:41:03. > :41:10.touch with suffering, you find out who has been dealt a bad hand. When
:41:11. > :41:15.I first became an MP, I remember how awful and difficult the surgery
:41:16. > :41:19.appointments were and the tragedy of peoples lives your desperation to
:41:20. > :41:24.help people in such struggling circumstances. You have a new album,
:41:25. > :41:32.and you have said it is quite personal. Does it encapsulate the
:41:33. > :41:35.past 25 years, in a way? Yeah, I spent the last year writing,
:41:36. > :41:42.recording and producing it. It is very autobiographical. I think, you
:41:43. > :41:48.think you know it all when you are 16 or 26, but you don't. It takes
:41:49. > :41:53.time. In my 30s, I realised who I was at a man. I guess I kind of
:41:54. > :41:59.poured back into this album. So quite a bit to say, but positive,
:42:00. > :42:10.all good. It is a positive record. Uplifting? I think so. Out tomorrow?
:42:11. > :42:14.It's just came out now. It is my 10th studio album as a solo artist,
:42:15. > :42:18.which is exciting for me. I feel proud that I am still around and
:42:19. > :42:24.doing it. But I am still nervous. Figures crossed it does well. Is it
:42:25. > :42:31.true that you made a complaint about the lack of Tayto crisps in the
:42:32. > :42:35.dressing room? It is an outrage! I would like to apologise on behalf of
:42:36. > :42:38.the BBC. It is embarrassing. Good luck with the album. Thank you for
:42:39. > :42:39.having me on. Now that's your lot
:42:40. > :42:41.for tonight, folks. But not for us because,
:42:42. > :42:43.to paraphrase Madeleine Albright, for This Week pundits who don't go
:42:44. > :42:47.to Lou Lou's. But we leave you tonight
:42:48. > :42:49.with the outrageous attempt by the Oscars organisers to prevent
:42:50. > :42:51.grateful winners name-checking a long list of tedious non-entities
:42:52. > :42:54.who they feel obligated to mention. So I'd like to take this opportunity
:42:55. > :43:27.to thank all the little people Sounds, Mr Haines. Vision mixer,
:43:28. > :43:38.Jerry Morrison. Floor manager, Stevie walker. Location camera,
:43:39. > :43:49.David Lawrenson. What would we do without him? Graphic design, carol
:43:50. > :43:53.Yates. VED editors, Kevin Ramsey. Interactive producer, Adam Donald,
:43:54. > :43:57.never heard of him. Assistant producer, James Fitzgerald, don't
:43:58. > :44:03.thank him. Producers, Andrew Bradley and Gemma Stockwood. Director,
:44:04. > :44:10.Claire Bellis. Where would we be without Claire? Assistant editor,
:44:11. > :44:12.Richard Garvin. Missing in action, the editor, Vicky Flynn. Where is
:44:13. > :44:15.she?