:00:00. > :00:07.Tonight, as the pioneer creator and writer of Coronation Street
:00:08. > :00:10.passes away, This Week presents another episode of the long-running
:00:11. > :00:23.Petty squabbles continue over the future of the EU,
:00:24. > :00:27.as the migrant crisis continues to get worse and worse and worse.
:00:28. > :00:40.We keep hearing why are the refugees Owen Jones, is on the cobblestones.
:00:41. > :00:44.We keep hearing why are the refugees coming into our street, but it is
:00:45. > :00:47.actually the poorest countries who are taking the brunt.
:00:48. > :00:50.The Street has always been good at building a plot line
:00:51. > :00:52.but is the Prime Minister manufacturing Project Fear?
:00:53. > :00:54.The New Statesman's Helen Lewis is pulling a pint
:00:55. > :01:08.While the bars at Westminster are full of chatter about the EU
:01:09. > :01:11.referendum, is anyone talking about it down the Rovers Return?
:01:12. > :01:14.And soap opera, US style, as the Hillary and Donald
:01:15. > :01:18.The man with many voices Simpsons star, Harry Shearer will be talking
:01:19. > :01:23.Smithers, who is that power hungry billionaire I keep hearing
:01:24. > 1:27:13Evenin' all, welcome to This Week and the end of days.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13We've got the gas masks, duct tape, Pot Noodles,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13chicken and mushroom, natch, and a lifetime's supply of Blue Nun.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Alan's brought his harmonica, just to keep our spirits up.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13But I fear we're fighting a losing battle.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Forget your biblical plagues of frogs, boils and Polish plumbers.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Because Project Fear now stalks the land and is taking
1:27:14 > 1:27:13all the Project Fun out of the EU referendum.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13We've heard the four-minute warnings and it's clear now to everyone that
1:27:14 > 1:27:13leaving the European Union would, quite literally, be the end
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Which is strange because only two weeks ago Call-Me-Dave was
1:27:14 > 1:27:13"ready to walk away" from the European Union if he didn't
1:27:14 > 1:27:13get his modest way on in-work benefits
1:27:14 > 1:27:13And yet to listen him now, Brussels is the only thing standing
1:27:14 > 1:27:13between civilisation and a dystopian world of radioactive cannibal
1:27:14 > 1:27:13motorcycle gangs circling the M25 on customised high-tariff chopper
1:27:14 > 1:27:13bikes, as feral tribes of unregulated children
1:27:14 > 1:27:13fight to the death in Tina Turner's O2
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the Common Fisheries Policy, say hello to a scorched-earth
1:27:14 > 1:27:13zombie-pocalypse and hordes of sun-burnt wrinkly old Brits,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13forced to return from their villas on the Costa Del Sol,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to live among us as the walking dead.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Speaking of a terrifying future, I'm joined on the sofa tonight
1:27:14 > 1:27:13by a pairing that's got disaster written all over it.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Think of them as the Liam Payne of One Direction,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13and the Cheryl Fernandez-Versini of late night political chat.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13I speak, of course, of #manontheleft, Alan "AJ" Johnson.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13And on her This Week debut, #sadscouseronasofa
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Esther "not attending Cabinet anymore" McVey.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Your moment of the week? It has to be when the mild-mannered Andrew
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Tyrie, who is the chair of the Treasury Select Committee, basically
1:27:14 > 1:27:13usually very measured when he speaks, let rip to Stuart Rose, the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13guy who is heading the remaining campaign. And all week we had heard
1:27:14 > 1:27:13words, Project Fear, statistics batted either way, but this was the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13first time that somebody had systematically said how untrue these
1:27:14 > 1:27:13figures were, because Stuart Rose had come forward saying what it was
1:27:14 > 1:27:13worth to be in the EU. He said, the statistics don't work. You gave us
1:27:14 > 1:27:13five sets, two do not belong to the UK, they are ten years out of date,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13wrong methodology, those do not work. I hope it is going to be the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13start now that we were actually get through statistics coming forward
1:27:14 > 1:27:13because I think that is what the public want. We will be doing our
1:27:14 > 1:27:13bit on the Daily Politics to do that. Talk about wrinkly old Brits,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13myself and Michael Portillo are often criticised for our Neanderthal
1:27:14 > 1:27:13approach to social media. But this week, President Hollande went to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13visit an internet company and all his people said he has to modernise
1:27:14 > 1:27:13his image. So he used this video app called Paris scope, but he did not
1:27:14 > 1:27:13realise, and none of his people told him, where you could stop unwanted
1:27:14 > 1:27:13comments. So throughout his visit, people's comments were streamed
1:27:14 > 1:27:13live, about his thickening waist, his love life, his trousers being
1:27:14 > 1:27:13too short above his socks. And after 21 minutes they had to pull it. An
1:27:14 > 1:27:13absolute disaster. Hilarious. Never try to change your image and get
1:27:14 > 1:27:13down with the kids. Stick to the wind-up phone.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Now, the migrant camp in Calais known as The Jungle has loomed large
1:27:14 > 1:27:13in the early days of Britain's EU referendum, even though it has only
1:27:14 > 1:27:13a walk on part in the far larger European migrant crisis.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13More migrants have made it to Europe in the first six weeks of this year
1:27:14 > 1:27:13than made it in the first six months of last year and the numbers
1:27:14 > 1:27:13will only grow as Spring makes the sea crossing from Turkey
1:27:14 > 1:27:13There are only a few thousand in The Jungle but they've become
1:27:14 > 1:27:13pawns in the Remain vs Leave debate and French politicians have been
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Noody seems to have any idea how to resolve the plight of those stuck
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Here's journalist Owen Jones with his take of the week.
1:27:14 > 1:27:1320 million French people pour into Britain,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13They are being absorbed into our communities.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13But it's not a million miles away from what's going on in Lebanon.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13That's a tiny country and they've taken in 1.5 million refugees.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13In comparison, we've taken in a handful.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13We look at these people in the Calais camps and we ask,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13But the truth is, the vast majority aren't.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13They are in far poorer countries than our own.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Those few actually wanting to come to Britain often feel an affinity
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Maybe they speak the language, maybe they have
1:27:14 > 1:27:13relatives here, maybe they are from former colonies.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13But we are expecting those countries with the least resources to carry
1:27:14 > 1:27:13You've got to remember too that our governments
1:27:14 > 1:27:13have been complicit in instability that's driven people
1:27:14 > 1:27:13from their homes, whether it be wars in Iraq
1:27:14 > 1:27:13or Libya, or arming a Saudi dictatorship that bombs Yemen
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Now, I went to the camps in Calais and the people I met,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13And the key difference wasn't their language
1:27:14 > 1:27:13It was the violence that they'd suffered.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13The Afghan kid whose dad was shot dead by the Taliban.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13The Sudanese man whose fellow villagers were burned to death
1:27:14 > 1:27:13The Syrians who fled Assad's barrel bombs.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13But while we are turning shipping containers in this country
1:27:14 > 1:27:13into trendy shops and cafes, the Calais camps are
1:27:14 > 1:27:13And they are being replaced with containers
1:27:14 > 1:27:13The thing is, you make this case, and it
1:27:14 > 1:27:13is well easy to be accused of being some, you know,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13But I think this is partly about patriotism.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Our country has been enriched by refugees.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Whether it be the Huguenots who fled France, the Jews
1:27:14 > 1:27:13who fled Eastern Europe, or Asians who fled Idi Amin's Uganda
1:27:14 > 1:27:13If we turn our backs when far poorer countries are doing far more
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to help, that could be a matter of national shame.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13But if we do more to help people, that
1:27:14 > 1:27:13From Box Park in Shoreditch to thinking squarely inside the box
1:27:14 > 1:27:13on This Week, Owen Jones joins us now.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13We will come onto what is to be done in a moment, but once again you say
1:27:14 > 1:27:13it is the West's fault. It is always the West's fold, isn't it? But a lot
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of the people in the camp are Syrian. I don't remember us invading
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Syria. A number are sub-Saharan African, Sudanese and Eritrea, and I
1:27:14 > 1:27:13don't remember invading either of these countries. I did not say it
1:27:14 > 1:27:13was all the West's fault. I said governments have been complicit in
1:27:14 > 1:27:13various forms of instability, whether Iraq or Libya. You are
1:27:14 > 1:27:13correct, this is a world riven with conflict and the West is not the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13scent of all those conflicts. I never claimed it was always our
1:27:14 > 1:27:13fault, so it is a slightly odd line of argument. In the case of Syrians,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13and it is not to blame the West for that conflict, I would like us to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13put pressure, for example, on Turkey, a Nato ally, to stop, for
1:27:14 > 1:27:13example, Isis fighters going over that border and attacking Kurdish
1:27:14 > 1:27:13freedom fighters. I would like us to put pressure on our Saudi allies,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13who we are farming to the teeth, who are complicit in exporting
1:27:14 > 1:27:13international terrorism. Is it all to blame the West, of course not.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13The issue is what we ask about government, because we have control
1:27:14 > 1:27:13over our government and can hold it to account. In a world riven with
1:27:14 > 1:27:13conflict, by no stretch of the imagination all to do with the West,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13but clearly the West in various countries has been complicit... I
1:27:14 > 1:27:13will give the Iraq and Afghanistan but I would not give you Syria. I am
1:27:14 > 1:27:13interested, too, that you want us to put pressure on the Saudis. That is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13a British ally. You want pressure on Turkey, a Nato member. You do not
1:27:14 > 1:27:13mention pressure on Russia, which is creating a new migrant crisis as it
1:27:14 > 1:27:13continues the war, even though there is a ceasefire. I wrote an article a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13few weeks ago calling for the left to speak out against Vladimir
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Putin's regime. You just failed to do that. I was talking about the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13role of our own governments. Russia is not a Western client state. We
1:27:14 > 1:27:13can certainly call for Russia to stop bombing Syria. It is a country,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13you are quite right, bombing civilians, killing civilians, and it
1:27:14 > 1:27:13is another power complicit in a war which is murdering tens of thousands
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of civilians. That was a short video. Let me finish that point.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13There is a form of argument called a strawman argument, which is when
1:27:14 > 1:27:13someone invents an Aga given their opponent and then knocks it down. I
1:27:14 > 1:27:13have never claimed the West is at the source of all instability across
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the world. Of course it is not. Countries like Russia and other
1:27:14 > 1:27:13countries are heavily complicit. You have had the opportunity to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13establish your opinion and I'm grateful for that. There is a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13humanitarian case for doing something about Calais, that is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13clear. But it would only be humanitarian. It would do nothing to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13resolve the much wider migrant crisis. But there are practical
1:27:14 > 1:27:13things we can do. There is a problem with unaccompanied kids who have
1:27:14 > 1:27:13fled conflicts, whether Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan. Unicef are arguing,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13and they have some practical proposals, is firstly that our
1:27:14 > 1:27:13family reunion laws in this country are unduly restrictive. If you are
1:27:14 > 1:27:13an unaccompanied kid, if you have a mum or dad here, there is a wrong
1:27:14 > 1:27:13with the process that takes too long. I think we should extend that,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13this is what Unicef are arguing, that if you have an aunt, uncle,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13grandad or grandmother, there should also give you the ability to claim
1:27:14 > 1:27:13asylum here. Equally, last year in June only one of -- one in ten of
1:27:14 > 1:27:13these refugees coming to Europe were kids, and it is now over a third. I
1:27:14 > 1:27:13think we should look to other children, particularly unaccompanied
1:27:14 > 1:27:13kids at risk of people trafficking, serious exploitation, and also take
1:27:14 > 1:27:13a share of those. What numbers are we talking about? Unicef have argued
1:27:14 > 1:27:13not to set an arbitrary limit. They have said you should not do that. I
1:27:14 > 1:27:13want to bring in the others. I agree we should be doing
1:27:14 > 1:27:13want to bring in the others. I agree refugee crisis but I also think that
1:27:14 > 1:27:13France has been very slow in tackling this issue in Calais, to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13discern between genuine asylum seekers, Syrians, people from
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Afghanistan, those that you mentioned, and economic migrants.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13That is what needs to be done. It needs to be done at Europe's
1:27:14 > 1:27:13external borders. There was progress this week about putting more into
1:27:14 > 1:27:13that. Calais is a result of that, a symptom of that. But the French have
1:27:14 > 1:27:13been very slow. As I understand it they have yet to even begin the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13process of doing that. In the meantime, I do agree about
1:27:14 > 1:27:13unaccompanied children. There is an issue about unaccompanied children
1:27:14 > 1:27:13with relatives in this country that we should be looking at very
1:27:14 > 1:27:13seriously. But if the argument was, and I don't think it was, that we
1:27:14 > 1:27:13just move UK Border Force away and let people come across, then I would
1:27:14 > 1:27:13disagree. And it wasn't argued. We'd still be part of the European
1:27:14 > 1:27:13continent and wouldn't we have an obligation to be part of the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13solution to resolving the migrant crisis? As internationalists, you
1:27:14 > 1:27:13have to be a part of solving that crisis now. We all look at the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13pictures, it could be your daughter, you know. You say, where are we
1:27:14 > 1:27:13going to solve it, at source, what is the best way to send a message
1:27:14 > 1:27:13across? The whole of Europe's dealts with this issue really badly. I look
1:27:14 > 1:27:13at say Austria who was one of the countries saying we want a European
1:27:14 > 1:27:13solution, they have now closed the borders, done what the nine
1:27:14 > 1:27:13surrounding countries have done, everyone's gone into a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13fragmentation, how do we do this as individuals, so we have got to say,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13what is the message we send out. I see Tusk saying don't come unless
1:27:14 > 1:27:13you are an economic migrant. A million people came last year.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13There'll be at least a million, there's already been 120,000 and
1:27:14 > 1:27:13it's only early March, that is this year. Isn't Britain obliged in or
1:27:14 > 1:27:13out of the EU to play a major role? In a way it has, it's put in over a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13billion pounds. That hasn't been coming? No, but we say, what do we
1:27:14 > 1:27:13do to help Turkey, Lebanon, Syria. Actually, you don't hear me praise
1:27:14 > 1:27:13this Government very often but there's been substantial aid to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13parts of that region which we need to build on. The issue - I went to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13that camp and it's grim when you go there because the problem with
1:27:14 > 1:27:13refugees, they are often stripped of their humanity. They are very
1:27:14 > 1:27:13complex cases because some have relatives here. Some work for the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13British Army, you know, they were translators and put their lives at
1:27:14 > 1:27:13risk and are being denied entry. I don't understand that. I met an
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Afghan man who lived in Shepherds Bush for 15 years, was deported and
1:27:14 > 1:27:13come all the way back and considers this his home. What unites them is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13they have all fled violence and war. What we kind to do with an orderly
1:27:14 > 1:27:13accepting people into the UK, we said we'd go over there and see them
1:27:14 > 1:27:13in their centres and bring them over. 20,000 over five years? That
1:27:14 > 1:27:13is what they were deciding on. Iceland's taking 10,000.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13There's been a complete European failure on this. There were two ways
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to deal with this migrant crisis. First under Schengen was the weakest
1:27:14 > 1:27:13border is your border under Schengen and Europe had to do something to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13strengthen the borders, particularly in Greece and southern Italy, do
1:27:14 > 1:27:13something major, then it had to get together and, perhaps including
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Britain too and decide look, we have a million people coming in, by the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13size of our economies, let's divide them between the various nations.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13None of that's happened. It's a fail, fail, fail for Europe. Two
1:27:14 > 1:27:13points. You are making the point to Esther that actually turning our
1:27:14 > 1:27:13back against the EU isn't going to solve the problems. People are still
1:27:14 > 1:27:13going to want to move around the world. The EU is not solving the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13problems. The second point, where is the UN in this? No international
1:27:14 > 1:27:13organisation's covered itself in glory with this, tackling this. It's
1:27:14 > 1:27:13on our doorstep. Yes, it is, but what have we been doing throughout
1:27:14 > 1:27:13this crisis? We have been over there saying, listen, do you mind talking
1:27:14 > 1:27:13about ever closer union on our agenda. In a way this was happening
1:27:14 > 1:27:13for a year, it still seems to have taken everybody by surprise with the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13sheer numbers as volume so where Greece said we could do 70,000, it
1:27:14 > 1:27:13wasn't expecting 2,000 people every day. It's one of the greatest
1:27:14 > 1:27:13humanitarian crises since World War II and help is desperately needed.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13It's going to get worse. 20,000 is not a lot. Compared to countries
1:27:14 > 1:27:13smaller than ours, like Sweden, they have taken in far more. These are
1:27:14 > 1:27:13human beings, they have been demonised and vilified, I think
1:27:14 > 1:27:13let's take a stand, let's take in some unaccompanied children as a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13start. Thank you. Now it's late; diverted Ryanair
1:27:14 > 1:27:13flight to Slovakia late, so take it easy on the Blue Nun
1:27:14 > 1:27:13chaps, because waiting in the wings Harry Shearer, aka Derek Smalls,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13aka Principal Skinner, aka Mr Burns To talk about the politics
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of showbiz, and the showbiz And don't forget to power-up
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the Vic20, Commodore64 and follow us on The Twitter,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13The Fleecebook And Gordon Brown's Now, here on This Week
1:27:14 > 1:27:13we like a fright. In fact, we enjoy nothing more
1:27:14 > 1:27:13than dressing up an unsuspecting journalist in a silly
1:27:14 > 1:27:13costume and sending them So when David Cameron's latest
1:27:14 > 1:27:13warnings about leaving the EU were dismissed by his own MPs this
1:27:14 > 1:27:13week as scaremongering. And one minister said
1:27:14 > 1:27:13it was like Halloween come early. For us, it was like
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Christmas come early. That's why we sent
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the New Statesman's Deputy Editor, Helen Lewis down to the tombs
1:27:14 > 1:27:13at the London Bridge Experience. This is her terrifying roundup
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of the political week. Get ready to hide behind the sofa,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13because a new terrifying monster The only project I'm
1:27:14 > 1:27:13interested in is Project Fact. I think it's all baloney,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13it's all Project Fear. The name comes from the Scottish
1:27:14 > 1:27:13independence referendum campaign, where the unionist side
1:27:14 > 1:27:13was accused of running a negative campaign, talking down Scotland,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13issuing bloodcurdling warnings about what might
1:27:14 > 1:27:13happen if the country Now, say the Brexiteers,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the same is happening again. I just think this
1:27:14 > 1:27:13whole Operation Fear By the time we get to June,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13we will have dragons coming out of the Thames, and serpents coming
1:27:14 > 1:27:13out of our taps being predicted. The trouble is,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the one thing we know about fear campaigns
1:27:14 > 1:27:13is that they work. And the pro-Europeans say the other
1:27:14 > 1:27:13side have been doing some scaremongering of their own
1:27:14 > 1:27:13by saying that staying in the EU means accepting
1:27:14 > 1:27:13effectively unlimited The First Minister of Scotland made
1:27:14 > 1:27:13a rare trip to London I think the answer
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to the concerns that people have isn't to clamp down
1:27:14 > 1:27:13on free movement. Instead, the answer
1:27:14 > 1:27:13is to ensure that the economy works more effectively for people
1:27:14 > 1:27:13who are currently unemployed or on low wages, or
1:27:14 > 1:27:13struggling to access It is to generate hope,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13rather than play on fear. And that wasn't the only
1:27:14 > 1:27:13row raging this week. Angry Conservative backbenchers
1:27:14 > 1:27:13demanded to know why the Government was spooking the electorate
1:27:14 > 1:27:13with horror stories of life outside the EU when just a few weeks ago,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13David Cameron was supposed to be considering everything,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13even leaving the EU, If my right honourable friend's
1:27:14 > 1:27:13rather apocalyptic view of our leaving the European Union
1:27:14 > 1:27:13is correct, was it not both either irresponsible or inaccurate
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of the Prime Minister to say he ruled nothing out
1:27:14 > 1:27:13prior to the completion of the most unsatisfactory
1:27:14 > 1:27:13renegotiation? We have secured
1:27:14 > 1:27:13a renegotiation which I think addresses the principal British
1:27:14 > 1:27:13concerns about our membership Now we can advocate membership
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of this reformed EU, and I think we will be stronger,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13safer and better off in that The leave side are also annoyed
1:27:14 > 1:27:13with Sir Jeremy Heywood, the head of the civil service,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13who this week ruled that exit-supporting ministers
1:27:14 > 1:27:13should not have access to official documents that might undermine
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the Government's case. MPs at the Public Administration
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Committee were so spine tinglingly scary that he agreed
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to back down a little. I don't think it's appropriate,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the Prime Minister doesn't think It didn't happen in 75,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13very much the same precedent, to provide material
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to ministers that want to argue against the Government's position,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13so they can make that case And with Europe dominating
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the headlines, where, you might ask, was Labour
1:27:14 > 1:27:13leader Jeremy Corbyn. Well, he didn't ask
1:27:14 > 1:27:13about Europe at PMQs. In fact, he had bigger worries
1:27:14 > 1:27:13on his mind this week. On the day set aside
1:27:14 > 1:27:13on Labour's grid for campaigning about Europe,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13he attended a CND rally. I first joined the Campaign
1:27:14 > 1:27:13for Nuclear Disarmament when I was 16 years old,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13and I'm still a member, CND and the wider peace movement
1:27:14 > 1:27:13play an absolutely vital They speak up for peace,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13speak up for justice, speak up for human rights,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13and whilst many of our media will never give any
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of you the credit for it, actually have an enormous effect
1:27:14 > 1:27:13on the politics of this country. Still, luckily for
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Corbyn, on Europe at It now looks as though fully half
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of Tory MPs will defy their leader With three months of rows
1:27:14 > 1:27:13and splits to go, it's nothing less than a Nightmare
1:27:14 > 1:27:13on Downing Street. The New Statesman's Helen Lewis
1:27:14 > 1:27:13there in the tombs at Esther, remain or leave? Leave. Did
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the Prime Minister's renegotiation play any part in that decision? Not
1:27:14 > 1:27:13really. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. He'd offered a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13referendum, he was going to see if he could get a deal and I thought
1:27:14 > 1:27:13that was only right. But actually, my decision came from earlier than
1:27:14 > 1:27:13that. I would have been probably somebody who would have been more on
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the fence, I could have been an in, but when I went to Council of Europe
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the last two clears and saw how the law-making process was made, that
1:27:14 > 1:27:13was really what changed me into saying if this is how it's
1:27:14 > 1:27:13structured, looking deeper into the whole structure of Europe, do we
1:27:14 > 1:27:13have a greater say, well not particularly. I was doing something
1:27:14 > 1:27:13in particular, we had a blocking minority vote, it had taken six
1:27:14 > 1:27:13months to get that, I thought this was going to happen, the law was
1:27:14 > 1:27:13gon't going to come through, 4 o'clock coffee time, 6 o'clock the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13vote was coming, it fell apart. There was nothing that could have
1:27:14 > 1:27:13been realistically brought back to change your mind? If there could
1:27:14 > 1:27:13have been an ability for us to have more of a trading union, if there
1:27:14 > 1:27:13could have been an ability for us to act in different countries so it
1:27:14 > 1:27:13could have broken it down so it wasn't a rigid 29 or nothing... So
1:27:14 > 1:27:13that wasn't realistic so he couldn't have brought that back? No, but it's
1:27:14 > 1:27:13interesting behind-the-scenes how many countries were actually saying
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the things like that, but they never seemed to have the courage or the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13convictions when they speak publicly that that's what they want to do. A
1:27:14 > 1:27:13lot of people were talking about free movement. Doesn't your side of
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the camp - don't you have to give us a clearer picture of what this
1:27:14 > 1:27:13country's position would be post a Brexit? I do think we have to look
1:27:14 > 1:27:13more into that but I think there are two pictures really. There is one
1:27:14 > 1:27:13that it isn't all safe and fine in Europe. We see there is a gradual
1:27:14 > 1:27:13destruction and falling apart of Europe. I understand that, but that
1:27:14 > 1:27:13is what I asked you, that if you are going to take us out, we need a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13better idea of what out means? And out means that we'd have the ability
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to make our own Free Trade Agreements which we can do. We know
1:27:14 > 1:27:13that the UK outside Europe would be the biggest export market for Europe
1:27:14 > 1:27:13so we can stand alone. In fact there's one thing, if I had to do
1:27:14 > 1:27:13one comparison, I feel at the moment people are wanting to stay in Europe
1:27:14 > 1:27:13because it's too big to fail. When have we heard that before? Too big
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to fail. We said we'd never have that again and I will draw
1:27:14 > 1:27:13comparisons with the banks. We didn't know about the bank's
1:27:14 > 1:27:13finances, they said the debt was toxic and they said it was fine.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Europe's the same, it doesn't clear its books, it has them qualified
1:27:14 > 1:27:13accounts... OK. Another thing... No, no, no, Alan Johnson? Why does the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13No Campaign we main negative? There is an issue that if you are joining
1:27:14 > 1:27:13something, you stress the opportunities, if you are leaving
1:27:14 > 1:27:13something, you mention the threats. The clips there, there was probing
1:27:14 > 1:27:13on their position in the EU, there was a lot of talk about whether
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Scotland's currency would be the same, a lot of talk about over
1:27:14 > 1:27:13dependency on oil. If you are pulling away from something, you are
1:27:14 > 1:27:13bound to emphasise the threats and the hazard. Now, that doesn't mean
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to say the whole argument should be about that. I take issue with Esther
1:27:14 > 1:27:13about it's always something done to us Europe, the poor old Brits
1:27:14 > 1:27:13getting sand kicked in their face on the beach. Sometimes we lose under
1:27:14 > 1:27:13qualified majority voting, who wanted qualified majority voting, we
1:27:14 > 1:27:13did, Mrs Thatcher did otherwise you never get anything done if it needs
1:27:14 > 1:27:13unanimity on everything and I don't agree with this, Europe is falling
1:27:14 > 1:27:13apart. It's like the banks, you know, pre-Lehmann Brothers, it's
1:27:14 > 1:27:13just such a caricature. Not in great shape though is it? No, neither are
1:27:14 > 1:27:13we. None of the component parts of the European Union are in great
1:27:14 > 1:27:13shape after what happened with the economic shock and in their case...
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Our economy is in better shape than the eurozone?
1:27:14 > 1:27:13This is the thing about Brexit. They say number one brussels makes our
1:27:14 > 1:27:13laws, and number two we are the fifth most successful world economy.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Which is it? Brussels does everything, but miraculously we
1:27:14 > 1:27:13happen to be a successful economy. On a mature basis we say, what is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13best for the future, to work together or go off into isolation.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Project Fear worked in Scotland because there were a number of big
1:27:14 > 1:27:13issues, particularly around currency, that were not answered by
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the people that wanted us to leave the United Kingdom. That is a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13weakness for those that want to leave because there are questions
1:27:14 > 1:27:13you cannot answer, which will make Project Fear more salient. Except we
1:27:14 > 1:27:13do know we can make our own trade agreements. We don't know for sure
1:27:14 > 1:27:13we can make a deep single market agreement with the rest of Europe.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13We know there will be something but we don't know it will be a deep
1:27:14 > 1:27:13single market. We are the biggest trading partner, export market for
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Europe. We will get something but you can't tell us what it is. It may
1:27:14 > 1:27:13be fine, it might not be as good as what we have at the moment. That is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the uncertainty. At the moment what have we got? We pay a membership,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13?20 billion a year. We get some money back. Not 20 billion. We get a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13third back but we are told how to spend it. We have a trade deficit of
1:27:14 > 1:27:13?2 billion a year. Who tells us how to spend it? They do not tell us how
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to spend the rebate. They do in a way because it funnels down in
1:27:14 > 1:27:13various schemes. Equally, ?62 billion is a trade deficit. We are
1:27:14 > 1:27:13part now of a group which is diminishing on a global scale. There
1:27:14 > 1:27:13are things we could do better outside it. So I don't go along with
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Project Fear. As I said, we are part of something which I believe is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13falling apart. We are running out of time. For Mr Cameron to win, he
1:27:14 > 1:27:13needs the Labour vote to be mobilised because Tory votes will be
1:27:14 > 1:27:13divided. There is no sign of Labour votes being mobilised, certainly not
1:27:14 > 1:27:13by Mr Corbyn. I am doing my best! Jeremy was with me on Saturday. He
1:27:14 > 1:27:13went to a CND rally but before that he was with me in Sheffield with the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13campaign. Has he given you a schedule of rallies he will speak
1:27:14 > 1:27:13at? We are drawing up. Are Labour going to give you money to fight the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13campaign? Yes, absolutely, I am amazed at how much they are giving.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13How much? I don't want to go into details. We will declare it. I want
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to ask you this, if your side wins, Boris Johnson as unstoppable as the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13next Tory leader, isn't he? He might be but everybody has to vote on
1:27:14 > 1:27:13that. He is unstoppable. We don't know. We will have to see what
1:27:14 > 1:27:13happens with Boris. He is on stoppable, isn't he? I think so. If
1:27:14 > 1:27:13he gets through the process of MPs nominating him. I hear a lot from
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Conservative MPs that think he is an opportunist and think he might not
1:27:14 > 1:27:13be able to cut it at the dispatch box. It is tickled tattle.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Interesting tittle tattle. Now, politics is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13a very serious game. Regular This Week viewers
1:27:14 > 1:27:13know to their cost that if you get your head
1:27:14 > 1:27:13on the wrong position, full-contact with Michael Portillo
1:27:14 > 1:27:13can result in serious trauma. That's why it's always best
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to tackle him below the waist much But with the American presidential
1:27:14 > 1:27:13race getting Super serious after Super Tuesday and the Oscar
1:27:14 > 1:27:13ceremony desperately trying to! We've decided to risk verbal
1:27:14 > 1:27:13concussion and put the politics of showbiz and the showbiz
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of politics in this week's Let us not take this
1:27:14 > 1:27:13planet for granted. Racial diversity, climate
1:27:14 > 1:27:13change, sexual abuse. There's plenty on the policy agenda
1:27:14 > 1:27:13at this year's Oscars ceremony. Should politics take a leading role
1:27:14 > 1:27:13in showbiz or would we rather lovies It's a cliche that politics
1:27:14 > 1:27:13is simply showbiz for ugly people. The next President
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of the United States! Donald Trump's campaign's
1:27:14 > 1:27:13managed to combine the two, turning the Republican race
1:27:14 > 1:27:13into a Machiavellian contest worthy Marco Rubio had a tough
1:27:14 > 1:27:13night but he worked hard, he spent a lot of money,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13he is a light weight. We choose Donald Trump
1:27:14 > 1:27:13as our nominee, he will have carried out the most elaborate con job
1:27:14 > 1:27:13in the history of American politics. Super Tuesday, it was the political
1:27:14 > 1:27:13event of the year, at least for Hillary Clinton
1:27:14 > 1:27:13who won in seven states. The former First Lady had superstar
1:27:14 > 1:27:13name recognition but she's also seen as part of an elite that
1:27:14 > 1:27:13people no longer trust. Harry Shearer and co
1:27:14 > 1:27:13cranked the satire up to 11 They said there is no business quite
1:27:14 > 1:27:13like showbusiness, And we're joined in the studio
1:27:14 > 1:27:13by one of our very favourite people writer, actor, voice
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of the Simpsons! Welcome back to the programme. Thank
1:27:14 > 1:27:13you. Are the Oscars in danger of overdoing the self-righteous
1:27:14 > 1:27:13politically correct stuff? The Oscars, self-righteous? Surely you
1:27:14 > 1:27:13jest. But now they are about issues. This goes back to Marlon Brando who
1:27:14 > 1:27:13refused an Oscar and had someone come up and take it on his behalf
1:27:14 > 1:27:13because he was concerned about the plight of Native Americans. This has
1:27:14 > 1:27:13been going on for a long time. The Oscars got a protest this year about
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the fact that there were no black nominees for best actor and Best
1:27:14 > 1:27:13actress. It was a protest based on the peculiar idea that Hollywood is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13fair, or should be fair. This is a movement that started where fairness
1:27:14 > 1:27:13was called for, public education, public accommodation, voting rights.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Fairness is appropriate there. Hollywood has never been fair and
1:27:14 > 1:27:13never will be. The interesting thing is, you are right there is a history
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of this, but it seemed this year there was so much, with Lady Gaga
1:27:14 > 1:27:13and Leonardo DiCaprio and all the rest. Remember Philadelphia and the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Bruce Springsteen song? Yes, but it is more the volume of it. They get
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to say their bit, they take a line. Leonardo DiCaprio takes a particular
1:27:14 > 1:27:13line on the planet. And in his case, he is probably off on his private
1:27:14 > 1:27:13jet. But they never get questioned. If they say things, if they take
1:27:14 > 1:27:13policy issues, they have to face people like me to ask them
1:27:14 > 1:27:13questions. They do not get paid $20 million a picture. This programme
1:27:14 > 1:27:13pays very well for these two. I am hoping that! But they are not
1:27:14 > 1:27:13publicly accountable. You are talking about the privilege of
1:27:14 > 1:27:13celebrity, which takes us to Mr Trump. I watch with some amazement
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the pundits in the States turning themselves into pretzels trying to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13figure out this phenomenon. I am screaming at the screen, celebrity!
1:27:14 > 1:27:13A guy who runs in the Republican primary and uses almost every
1:27:14 > 1:27:13vulgarity and profanity would be thrown out of the party, except he
1:27:14 > 1:27:13is a celebrity. A guy in the Republican party who has contributed
1:27:14 > 1:27:13money to Hillary Clinton in the recent memorable past would be
1:27:14 > 1:27:13thrown out of the party, except he is a celebrity. Celebrities get to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13violate the rules. Show business, not in the Democratic nomination
1:27:14 > 1:27:13process, but because of Trump in the Republican one, it is a form of show
1:27:14 > 1:27:13business. It is all a form of show business. The fact is, American
1:27:14 > 1:27:13politics has been for years decided by who makes the best 32nd
1:27:14 > 1:27:13commercials. And a profusion of 30-2nd commercials is fuelled by the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13fact that the consultants and advisers commission them at a rate
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of 15%, so they have a built-in incentive to put more advertising on
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the air and discourage politicians from making any other kind of
1:27:14 > 1:27:13appearance than those for which the consultants get paid. I am
1:27:14 > 1:27:13interested you say it explains it, because Mr Trump has broken every
1:27:14 > 1:27:13rule in the book and you think, he has crashed and burned, and before
1:27:14 > 1:27:13you know it he is soaring up again. It is interesting that you say it is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13because people do not see him as a normal politician. They see him as a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13celebrity, part of a show business operation. And therefore he is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13judged by different standards. Yes, absolutely. This has happened for
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Ronald Reagan and George Murphy, a former movie song and dance man.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Both elected in California in the mid-19 60s, and for the same
1:27:14 > 1:27:13reasons, they were saying to the public, your politicians have failed
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to control this out-of-control phenomenon. At the time it was
1:27:14 > 1:27:13student protesters. And the public decided they had to turn to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13celebrities to act in local and is an control the kids the public could
1:27:14 > 1:27:13not control. Scary when show business takes over politics. It is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13scary looking at Trump. He was the winner in Ross County where the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13county town is 90% Latina and Hispanic, and he beat two Latinos.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Lets be fair, they split the opposition to Trump. That is the
1:27:14 > 1:27:13problem. In almost all of these elections, the vote against him is
1:27:14 > 1:27:13higher than the vote for him. So they didn't decide who should run
1:27:14 > 1:27:13against him. You are seeing ego at play in the Republican Party. I am
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the one to beat him! It is unbelievable how he has tapped into
1:27:14 > 1:27:13two key messages, jobs and immigration. When you listen to what
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Americans say on the street they say, we got behind him because he
1:27:14 > 1:27:13made millions, has employed people and has used the fear tactics of
1:27:14 > 1:27:13immigration. Even though he has employed immigrant is himself.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13People seem to be forgiving him for those things because he is a
1:27:14 > 1:27:13celebrity. Can he win as president? I don't think so. I think at the end
1:27:14 > 1:27:13of the day the vote against him will be greater, but this journey has
1:27:14 > 1:27:13been believable. You have a radio project. Yes, it has been on the air
1:27:14 > 1:27:13for some years and is now on in London on Soho radio. It is my sand
1:27:14 > 1:27:13box to make political commentary, satire. It is also on the internet.
1:27:14 > 1:27:13Good to see you. Now, that's your lot for tonight,
1:27:14 > 1:27:13folks, but not for us. Because it's Sam Smith
1:27:14 > 1:27:13night at Lou Lou's. Apparently it's the first ever gay
1:27:14 > 1:27:13club in the country! But we leave you tonight
1:27:14 > 1:27:13with pictures from the camp in Calais, known to
1:27:14 > 1:27:13everyone as The Jungle. The British media has spent many
1:27:14 > 1:27:13months highlighting the terrible conditions migrants are forced
1:27:14 > 1:27:13to endure in the camp, and the past week highlighting
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the apparent injustice of the camp's It's almost like we can't make
1:27:14 > 1:27:13up our minds what we think. Nighty night, don't let
1:27:14 > 1:27:13the cognitive dissonance bite. MUSIC: La Vie En Rose
1:27:14 > 1:27:13by Louis Armstrong. She's always like, "This is a nice
1:27:14 > 1:27:13dress. These are nice shoes." I am in the shop
1:27:14 > 1:27:14two, three times a week.