:00:18. > :00:31.Evenin' all, welcome to This Week and to the final time that we'll be
:00:32. > :00:37.Welcome to the 189th edivision of the Eurovision Song Contest
:00:38. > :00:45.broadcast from Bognor Regis. They have been watching Eurovision on the
:00:46. > :00:49.BBC since The BBC was invented. Big Beeb fan Richard Wilson thinks any
:00:50. > :00:53.government shake-up shouldn't be in the corporation's Waterloo. I love
:00:54. > :01:00.the BBC and would march in the streets to defend it.
:01:01. > :01:04.# Like a puppet on a string... # Old foe Kevin Maguire will be
:01:05. > :01:12.performing, making your mind up. Can he do it for his country this year
:01:13. > :01:17.or will it be nil point once again. Only six weeks until making your
:01:18. > :01:22.mind up and on the campaign trail, two groups singing different tunes.
:01:23. > :01:30.Kevin might have bombed a little bit there. Only one thing has been going
:01:31. > :01:36.longer than Eurovision. I'm hoping Annie Nightingale is saving all her
:01:37. > :01:39.kisses for me. If you witness as many Eurovision Song Contests as I
:01:40. > :01:48.have, you will know that the Swedes put on a banging show. Here at this
:01:49. > :01:54.week, I'm with a bunch of turn ins. The audience is going wild for
:01:55. > :02:00.Annie. -- turnips. Where are all the stars going? Watch out, here we are,
:02:01. > :02:17.we are in, put your feet up, we are in for a long night!
:02:18. > :02:21.Evenin' all, welcome to This Week and to the final time that we'll be
:02:22. > :02:29.Because, now that the Government is taking over BBC scheduling
:02:30. > :02:32.to ensure that never again do ITV's most popular shows have to face
:02:33. > :02:37.head-to-head competition from the BBC's top-rated programmes,
:02:38. > :02:40.I'm delighted to report that as of next weekend we're moving
:02:41. > :02:44.to 8pm on a Saturday night, with the explicit remit
:02:45. > :02:47.of not giving the X-Factor a run for its money.
:02:48. > :02:50.I understand it was a toss up between us and Newsnight,
:02:51. > :02:54.with the Director-General narrowly deciding in This Week's favour,
:02:55. > :02:58.as likely to do even worse than Newsnight in prime time.
:02:59. > :03:01.In keeping with this novel approach to scheduling,
:03:02. > :03:04.the Daily Politics will replace EastEnders every night at 7.30
:03:05. > :03:10.and EastEnders will move to the Parliament Channel
:03:11. > :03:13.where it can do ITV no harm but will raise the level
:03:14. > :03:20.A double whammy for public-service broadcasting at its finest.
:03:21. > :03:24.I know some of you night owls out there will be disappointed
:03:25. > :03:27.by our move to prime time but, frankly, the way they kept putting
:03:28. > :03:29.us on later and later, by Christmas we'd have been
:03:30. > :03:34.Speaking of the sort of distinctive content that would satisfy
:03:35. > :03:39.I'm joined on the sofa tonight by the kind of talent no commercial
:03:40. > :03:41.broadcaster would ever dream of putting on-screen.
:03:42. > :03:44.Think of them as the Strictly Come Dancing and the Strictly Forbidden
:03:45. > :03:50.I speak, of course of #manontheleft, Alan 'AJ' Johnson.
:03:51. > :03:54.And, abiding by the strict This Week dress code, #sadmaninhighheels,
:03:55. > :04:12.Your moment of the week? As part of project fear, George Osborne told us
:04:13. > :04:19.that were we to leave the Ieuan, house prices would fall. You would
:04:20. > :04:24.have to be Chancellor of the Exchequer -- leave the European
:04:25. > :04:27.Union. If house prices were to fall, millions of people at the moment
:04:28. > :04:31.have no chance of getting on the property ladder. They wouldn't be
:04:32. > :04:34.able to get on the property ladder and only a Chancellor of the
:04:35. > :04:37.Exchequer only interested in talking to old people in the have variety
:04:38. > :04:41.rather than the have notes would believe this is a disadvantage.
:04:42. > :04:45.Let's take George at his word for a moment. If we leave, the property
:04:46. > :04:51.prices will fall and we'll have much more social equality than before.
:04:52. > :04:55.Interesting. Alan? I think it's been Sadiq Khan's week and what impressed
:04:56. > :05:01.me most I think, a class political act is what he did on Sunday to go
:05:02. > :05:06.to the Holocaust memorial. Yes. When you've got all the kind of division
:05:07. > :05:11.and ignorance that we've heard from Donald Trump and we have had our own
:05:12. > :05:15.problems in the Labour Party, in one fell swoop, that action on Sunday
:05:16. > :05:22.deeply appreciated by the Jewish community. Really happy to see that.
:05:23. > :05:26.The first Muslim London Mayor and he goes to the Holocaust memorial, a
:05:27. > :05:31.very classy move. Very good. Two good moments. Can't remember when
:05:32. > :05:33.that last happened! Nor can we. Maybe our move to prime time will be
:05:34. > :05:35.a success! Now, with such world class public
:05:36. > :05:38.service broadcasting under its belt as Michael Portillo rapping along
:05:39. > :05:41.to NWA and former Home Secretary Jacqui Smith breaking it down big
:05:42. > :05:44.fish little fish style - and that's just on This Week -
:05:45. > :05:48.surely there can be no doubt about the place of the BBC
:05:49. > :05:51.in British society. But that didn't stop a procession
:05:52. > :05:54.of luvvies turning last Sunday's Baftas into something more
:05:55. > :05:57.akin to a North Korean Communist Party rally as they grand-standed
:05:58. > :06:00.to a series of "spontaneous" rapturous ovations from
:06:01. > :06:02.the faithful, warning of the imminent doom that
:06:03. > :06:07.was to be the BBC White Paper. Except that it turned out to be
:06:08. > :06:10.a bit of damp squib, with the licence fee index-linked
:06:11. > :06:13.for at least five years So is it trebles all
:06:14. > :06:20.round at Broadcasting House? Here's actor Richard Wilson
:06:21. > :06:29.with his take of the week. # They say I might as well face
:06:30. > :06:34.the truth # That I am just too long in the
:06:35. > :06:38.tooth # That I am just too long in the
:06:39. > :06:41.# I've started to deteriorate # And now I'm past my own sell by
:06:42. > :06:44.date # Oh, I am no spring
:06:45. > :06:46.chicken, it's true # I have to pop my teeth
:06:47. > :06:49.in to chew # And my old knees have started to
:06:50. > :06:51.knock... # I've just got too many miles
:06:52. > :06:56.on the clock # So I'm a wrinkly, crinkly, set in
:06:57. > :07:00.my ways... Decrepit, slow, creaky,
:07:01. > :07:06.some people might think of the BBC It's been around for
:07:07. > :07:14.almost a century now. Despite governments' various
:07:15. > :07:18.attempts to try and clip its wings, I don't think it's got one foot
:07:19. > :07:25.in the grave just yet. The White Paper announced today may
:07:26. > :07:29.have headed off some of the immediate fears,
:07:30. > :07:32.but I think we have conflict between the right and left
:07:33. > :07:38.of the Tory party to thank for that, rather than a sudden spring of love
:07:39. > :07:42.for Auntie by the Culture Secretary. Any Culture Secretary forced
:07:43. > :07:53.to admit he had no wish to hobble And I, for one, am prepared to march
:07:54. > :08:01.in the street to defend it The brilliance of the BBC
:08:02. > :08:06.is recognised not just We only have to look at the clean
:08:07. > :08:14.sweep of the BAFTAs to see that. Its brilliance lies
:08:15. > :08:21.in its impartiality, And it seems to me that
:08:22. > :08:29.Whittingdale's proposals still do a pretty good job
:08:30. > :08:33.of undermining that. Forced to open its books
:08:34. > :08:37.to a Government watchdog. The Government has powers
:08:38. > :08:40.to appoint its stooges Perhaps not as sweet
:08:41. > :08:50.a deal as it first seemed. And what will happen when the 11
:08:51. > :08:52.years of the licence And I'm concerned the BBC might now
:08:53. > :09:03.become more hare than tortoise, abandoning its wisdom to compete
:09:04. > :09:08.with the commercial The Corporation should stick
:09:09. > :09:14.to what it's good at, So what do you think, Jeremy,
:09:15. > :09:22.still time to make the placards? And from a sunny afternoon
:09:23. > :09:29.in the garden to raking the conversational muck
:09:30. > :09:49.here on This Week, Richard Welcome. Richard, a licence fee for
:09:50. > :09:53.11 years, index linked to 2022, no further cuts in the budget, a remit
:09:54. > :09:58.to increase diversity, encouragement to be distinct, not to be an ITV,
:09:59. > :10:02.special protection for the independence of the Director
:10:03. > :10:07.General, a BBC majority in the governing board, nonpayment of the
:10:08. > :10:10.licence fee still to be an offence, to top slicing, no government
:10:11. > :10:17.scheduling, more money for the BBC World Service. What's not to like? !
:10:18. > :10:25.The main problem of course is that Mr Whittingdale is going to appoint
:10:26. > :10:30.members of the bofred, chairmen, sub chairmen or whatever it is. The
:10:31. > :10:37.Government's always done that. Not always... The Government It's a
:10:38. > :10:42.different structure. This is a Government interfering in the
:10:43. > :10:46.scheduling of the BBC. The Government's interfered with the BBC
:10:47. > :10:50.all the time, the Governors, they even try to tell the BBC what to put
:10:51. > :10:53.on? Whittingdale and the Conservatives are after the BBC and
:10:54. > :10:58.this is another little chipping away. In your view, is that what
:10:59. > :11:02.it's down to? Is the real complaint that you've got left, is that the
:11:03. > :11:07.governance of the Government appointing six of the possibly 14
:11:08. > :11:13.members of the new board? Well, yes. It seems to me that Government has
:11:14. > :11:16.got more power in this new structure, this new board. Before
:11:17. > :11:21.there were two different boards. This new board, they seem to me to
:11:22. > :11:29.be having more power. Is that true? I think all this is completely
:11:30. > :11:35.irrelevant because the licence fee is shrivelling because young people
:11:36. > :11:41.aren't buying licence fees. It's catastrophic. The Government can
:11:42. > :11:50.guarantee the existence of the fee but they can't guarantee people will
:11:51. > :11:56.buy it. Net flix is a global organisation spending $5 billion a
:11:57. > :12:00.year. The BBC is Kodak, it's wedded to an old technology and an old way
:12:01. > :12:06.of being financed. All the questions the BBC makes about interference
:12:07. > :12:13.only come because it's effectively paid by tax. Net flix does haven't a
:12:14. > :12:18.global news network, it doesn't do rolling next, it doesn't do enough
:12:19. > :12:24.drama to schedule day in day out quality programmes like the BBC. It
:12:25. > :12:36.does House of Cards, picks them off one by one, there's no analogy
:12:37. > :12:45.between Flix. It's got 72 million subscribers. Today the BBC's in the
:12:46. > :12:54.same place as it was ten years ago -- Netflix. It spends billions on
:12:55. > :12:59.its programmes. I don't agree with Michael. Richard's suspicion about
:13:00. > :13:05.this, and it's not the White Paper we were expecting, it's much better
:13:06. > :13:08.than we were expecting. Yes. Ofcom in charge of regulation makes sense
:13:09. > :13:12.but the kind of preannalto this and the kind of words we've heard from
:13:13. > :13:16.Whittingdale and others suggests there was going to be an attack on
:13:17. > :13:21.the BBC so there is a suspicion that those appointed, whatever they are
:13:22. > :13:25.calling the new board, that that will mean editorial interference.
:13:26. > :13:29.But hold on, the Director General is going to be enshrined as having
:13:30. > :13:33.editorial independence, even that doesn't exist at the moment, only
:13:34. > :13:38.six. I think there'll be an arguen't about the six. There will be. But it
:13:39. > :13:40.will be six out of 14, the other eight will be appointed by the BBC
:13:41. > :13:51.themselves. It is an organisation basically
:13:52. > :13:57.funded by tax. You have to have some control by government in the broader
:13:58. > :14:02.sense. I expected to carry on being a world-class part of our creative
:14:03. > :14:06.industries. The BBC drives creative industries in this country, and they
:14:07. > :14:11.have become a bigger part of our economy, growing faster than our
:14:12. > :14:14.economy. It is a worldwide brand. It was a camera and speech writer who
:14:15. > :14:19.said for the British government to attack the BBC in anyway would be
:14:20. > :14:25.like America attacking Hollywood, or the French attacking the wine
:14:26. > :14:29.industry. Isn't there a problem that the critics, including Alan and
:14:30. > :14:34.yourself, were misled by that spin, and you had your defence of the BBC
:14:35. > :14:37.in place, quite rightly, against some of the rather absurd things
:14:38. > :14:43.being suggested, including government ministers scheduling BBC
:14:44. > :14:49.One? Perhaps -- actually, none of that came forward and you are now
:14:50. > :14:54.whistling in the wind. I don't think so. I think the suspicion we had,
:14:55. > :15:03.they backtracked. It is a U-turn, one of many. As I said in the piece,
:15:04. > :15:09.it was the Tory party disruption between the right and left, rather
:15:10. > :15:14.than Whittingdale... The result has been all right. The result is better
:15:15. > :15:18.than we thought. Did John Whittingdale bottle it? Instead of
:15:19. > :15:22.the absurdity that as soon as you leave the country you cannot watch
:15:23. > :15:27.the BBC, cannot get iPlayer, cannot watch catch up... A lot of that is
:15:28. > :15:34.to do with international rights. Get it sorted. They have been trying but
:15:35. > :15:37.because the BBC tries to make money in North America by selling
:15:38. > :15:42.wonderful programmes like the night manager, when it sells that, it also
:15:43. > :15:49.sells the digital rights, otherwise the American network would not take
:15:50. > :15:55.it. Andrew, listen, the BBC is a global brand. It must be one of the
:15:56. > :15:58.top six recognised broadcasters. It is in decline if it does not go
:15:59. > :16:09.international. It has to sell products around the world. It does
:16:10. > :16:13.so. It sells a few programmes. It does not make itself available in
:16:14. > :16:17.the way that people receive their television in the modern world,
:16:18. > :16:22.which is across the internet. It has to get into that world. I think
:16:23. > :16:28.tying it to the licence fee for the next 11 years is a tragedy. We saw
:16:29. > :16:31.this with nationalised industries in the 1980s. They are too frightened
:16:32. > :16:37.to move outside their cosy world, but in the end it suffocates them.
:16:38. > :16:41.The fact is that predictions of the demise of the BBC have been quite
:16:42. > :16:50.common over the years and it has managed to adapt and reinvent itself
:16:51. > :16:55.for a multichannel, digital world. I don't think Whittingdale realises
:16:56. > :17:02.just how popular the BBC is with the public, with the masses, in a way. I
:17:03. > :17:05.know there have been a lot of other problems on their minds, but I don't
:17:06. > :17:13.think they realised just how much action there was going to be? That
:17:14. > :17:17.may be why they pulled back a bit. Just because we are paranoid does
:17:18. > :17:21.not mean they are not out to get us. On the issue of six government
:17:22. > :17:24.appointments, it is not that different from before. It is a
:17:25. > :17:31.different kind of bored this time. You think there is room for an Uva
:17:32. > :17:36.on that? Yes. It was only published this afternoon. It is something the
:17:37. > :17:39.BBC would like to change. The problem is that it is a Royal
:17:40. > :17:47.Charter, decided by the Privy Council. I am not sure whether
:17:48. > :17:50.Parliament has control. But is it not remarkable, because Michael does
:17:51. > :17:56.not like it and I am to stand why, but is it not remarkable that at the
:17:57. > :18:00.turn of this century even the BBC itself some people doubted the
:18:01. > :18:06.licence fee could survive. And here it is, by a Tory government, being
:18:07. > :18:14.proposed to be renewed until 2028. I think that is, as Richard said,
:18:15. > :18:17.leave aside Labour supporters, there is big Conservative support there.
:18:18. > :18:21.It is Conservative in the best sense, that this is part of our
:18:22. > :18:32.traditions. This taught us is attacking Michael. It is a killer.
:18:33. > :18:36.We will meet here in 2028 and the BBC will rue the day the licence fee
:18:37. > :18:42.was renewed for 11 years. I am afraid I think it is the way to
:18:43. > :18:47.ruin. There is too much at stake. Too much of what the BBC does is so
:18:48. > :18:49.important. You are not addressing the point that the younger
:18:50. > :18:54.generation are not paying the license fee. The number of
:18:55. > :19:09.households paying the license fee is rising. There. Using iPlayer. We
:19:10. > :19:12.will have to leave it there. Thank you. Can I leave him here with you?
:19:13. > :19:15.Go for him! Now, it's late -
:19:16. > :19:17.Sheridan Smith late. But don't worry, we won't
:19:18. > :19:19.let you down. Because waiting in the wings,
:19:20. > :19:21.without an understudy, broadcasting legend,
:19:22. > :19:23.and doyen of the big base banger, Annie Nightingale is here to explain
:19:24. > :19:26.to Michael what dubstep is. And if you're down with This Week,
:19:27. > :19:31.big us up on The TweetyPie, The Fleecebook, SnapNumpty,
:19:32. > :19:34.WhatsUpYerFlu and Gordon Brown's Now, everyone knows World War One
:19:35. > :19:41.was triggered by the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand; World War Two
:19:42. > :19:43.by Adolf Hitler's And thanks to a speech given
:19:44. > :19:49.by David Cameron this week, we now know how close he came
:19:50. > :19:52.to starting World War Three when earlier this year he threatened
:19:53. > :19:56.to leave the European Union and plunge the continent
:19:57. > :20:00.into conflict, if he didn't secure a couple of minor changes to in-work
:20:01. > :20:06.benefits for migrants. Fortunately for everyone,
:20:07. > :20:10.the EU axis powers capitulated, world war three was averted,
:20:11. > :20:14.and the Prime Minister's high-stakes gamble with the lives
:20:15. > :20:16.of millions paid off. As a potential cause of global
:20:17. > :20:19.conflict, who wudda thunk that Tax credits were on a par
:20:20. > :20:23.with Pearl Harbour. But at least we're
:20:24. > :20:25.alive to tell the tale. Here's The Mirror's Kevin Maguire
:20:26. > :20:28.with his Vision for Europe roundup Music's supposed to bring Europe
:20:29. > :20:51.together, but this week on the campaign trail,
:20:52. > :20:53.there's been no harm with both So come on Gam, let's
:20:54. > :21:06.win this for Britain. # My, my, at Waterloo,
:21:07. > :21:12.Napoleon did surrender. Dave belted out a warning -
:21:13. > :21:25.Britain leaving Europe could trigger World War three -
:21:26. > :21:30.Remember Napoleon said. # Waterloo, I was defeated,
:21:31. > :21:35.you won the war #. What happens in our neighbourhood
:21:36. > :21:39.matters to Britain. That was true in 1914, in 1940,
:21:40. > :21:43.in 1989, or you could add 1588, All little Englanders responded
:21:44. > :21:57.and if Dave's so worried about Armageddon, why
:21:58. > :22:01.is he holding a referendum? To prove their point,
:22:02. > :22:04.their lead singer, BoJo, I'm, as I say,
:22:05. > :22:11.a liberal cosmopolitan. My family is a genetically
:22:12. > :22:14.equivalent of a UN I can read novels in French, I think
:22:15. > :22:20.I can read a novel in Spanish, But the really big question this
:22:21. > :22:34.week wasn't global war, what business wants or should
:22:35. > :22:37.we allow Eastern European It was, what will Churchill
:22:38. > :22:42.do into the charts, Yes, we have had to stand alone
:22:43. > :22:53.on certain occasions but yes we are best when we are outward
:22:54. > :22:56.looking and engaged and I think it's a patriotic view of the future
:22:57. > :23:01.of Britain to be part of Europe. You know a competition is heating
:23:02. > :23:03.up when an old rocker # Try to act as if you
:23:04. > :23:13.don't care less #. We can see the issues that need
:23:14. > :23:29.to be resolved in the EU, but they can't see anything good
:23:30. > :23:33.about it at all. That to me is a very strange,
:23:34. > :23:37.irrational way of looking at it. The EU, desprite its grand early
:23:38. > :23:41.intention has become, I believe, a friend of the haves,
:23:42. > :23:47.rather than a friend # Your kisses for me,
:23:48. > :23:53.save all your kisses for me #. Old rivals might be forming
:23:54. > :23:55.new super groups, but there's The PM's desperate not to be
:23:56. > :24:00.on the same bill as top Tories. The leave campaign senses the hand
:24:01. > :24:04.of Number Ten in the decision to put Nigel Farage on the
:24:05. > :24:07.same stage as Dave. We cannot win the referendum
:24:08. > :24:10.if all we see are I'm delighted we've got
:24:11. > :24:14.six Cabinet Ministers But actually, we need Ukip voices,
:24:15. > :24:19.Labour voices, Trade Union voices and a degree of unity
:24:20. > :24:23.if we are going to work together. Everyone was saving their
:24:24. > :24:25.kisses for Sadiq Khan. They were queueing up
:24:26. > :24:28.to congratulate the new Mayor Whilst it may be great,
:24:29. > :24:34.he's made an exception for me, it's not about me, it's
:24:35. > :24:36.about friends, family and others from all around the world
:24:37. > :24:39.who want to go to America, my concern is he's playing
:24:40. > :24:41.into the hands of extremist who is say it's not compatible to be
:24:42. > :24:46.Western and to be Mainstream Muslim. I think London showed
:24:47. > :24:49.last Thursday it is. Curiously, the one person
:24:50. > :24:51.who didn't sing Khan's praises at Prime Minister's Questions
:24:52. > :24:53.was his own party's front Sadly for us lefties,
:24:54. > :24:59.Dave's his own worst enemy. Corbyn tried to press Cameron on tax
:25:00. > :25:16.havens, but it was the SNP's Angus Robertson who came
:25:17. > :25:18.closest to stopping Seeing as the Prime Minister
:25:19. > :25:23.is prepared to lecture other countries on corruption
:25:24. > :25:25.and probitycould he explain why seven police forces in the UK have
:25:26. > :25:32.launched criminal investigations into Conservative MPs
:25:33. > :25:43.for potential electoral fraud? So it's nul point
:25:44. > :25:45.all round this week. We can do better than them
:25:46. > :25:48.and I'm sorry, Gam, this This week's Kevin Maguire,
:25:49. > :25:57.singing Beethoven's Ode to Joy. In all my years at Eurovision,
:25:58. > :26:19.I've never seen anything like that, that is surely
:26:20. > :26:23.a winning performance. Ok, never mind Kevin,
:26:24. > :26:52.always next year! Has call me Dave lost his marbles,
:26:53. > :26:58.or is he panicking with this talk of world War three? I hope he is
:26:59. > :27:03.panicking but it has reached such a level that I think everyone has
:27:04. > :27:06.switched off. You made the point earlier, how can he call a
:27:07. > :27:12.referendum if he seriously believes the outcome could be war in Europe?
:27:13. > :27:17.I just think all of Project Fear has got more and more silly day by day,
:27:18. > :27:22.and the British public is not stupid so I think they will dismiss all of
:27:23. > :27:30.this. But I think it has taken a toll on the Government's reputation
:27:31. > :27:36.for honesty and sanity. Probity. Sanity, was the word I was going to
:27:37. > :27:40.use. I pick it has destroyed George Osborne's reputation because it
:27:41. > :27:44.ruined his Budget but it is now not doing David Cameron's reputation any
:27:45. > :27:49.good. Is it not a problem for your side of the argument that if the
:27:50. > :27:53.dangers, the downside to Brexit is so severe, why would you ever have
:27:54. > :28:00.risked a referendum in the first place? Secondly, why would you make
:28:01. > :28:08.it contingent on what are frankly minor changes? That is a different
:28:09. > :28:11.question. Harold Wilson did the same thing in 1975. He did not play the
:28:12. > :28:18.same role in the campaign when it came round, he took a back seat. He
:28:19. > :28:22.did his bit. David Cameron did not talk about world War three. It was a
:28:23. > :28:27.perfectly decent speech. He was making the point that was written
:28:28. > :28:31.large in 1975, which was the role of the European Union in its
:28:32. > :28:34.predecessor coal and steel community, that post-war period,
:28:35. > :28:37.where Churchill in his zeal Rick speech was talking about Britain
:28:38. > :28:42.being at the centre of three majestic circles. It was very much
:28:43. > :28:45.about peace on our continent and I think it is quite right for David
:28:46. > :28:50.Cameron to point that out and for him to say that if you think, the
:28:51. > :28:56.irony is that the Schuman declaration that in 1940s said, we
:28:57. > :29:03.will make it inconceivable for two European countries to go to war
:29:04. > :29:07.together. I think it was right for Cameron to point that out and to
:29:08. > :29:09.say, if you think there cannot be war on our continent, look around
:29:10. > :29:14.and see what is happening on the borders. I think that was a fair
:29:15. > :29:21.point. If he had said we would have world War three... But that was not
:29:22. > :29:25.what he said. He placed it in the context of two world wars. Two wars
:29:26. > :29:36.on our continent. A valid point. The Governor of the Bank of England,
:29:37. > :29:40.Mark Carney intervened. Is this fitting for the Governor of the Bank
:29:41. > :29:45.of England in a partisan way? I certainly very much regret it. But
:29:46. > :29:51.the more these establishment figures rush in singing the same tune, quite
:29:52. > :29:54.honestly, the happier I get because, you know, the history of referendums
:29:55. > :30:00.in Europe is that when all the establishment's lined up on one
:30:01. > :30:06.side, the people quite enjoy the opportunity of giving them a good
:30:07. > :30:08.kicking. Polling out today showed British people rather rate Governor
:30:09. > :30:14.Carney and regard him as an independent voice on this and may
:30:15. > :30:21.take heed of what he's saying? I rather doubt it myself. The people
:30:22. > :30:24.I'm speaking to have, you know, I would say, strong predetermined
:30:25. > :30:26.positions and I don't think they are being particularly persuaded by the
:30:27. > :30:33.people stepping forward and giving their opinions. Sorry, Alan! Mark
:30:34. > :30:40.Carney and the monetary policy exit comity. We don't get to see the
:30:41. > :30:47.monies for eight years? -- committee. It was establishment
:30:48. > :30:52.figures on both sides of the argument. Are the broadcasters cow
:30:53. > :30:56.towelling to David Cameron now? In these debates, he wants to avoid at
:30:57. > :31:01.all costs a kind of Tory blue on blouse so he won't appear, even if
:31:02. > :31:05.separated, he he does half an hour then the leave would do half an
:31:06. > :31:09.hour, he won't appear on the same kind of programme with that, which
:31:10. > :31:15.means he won't appear against remain and yet the official campaign for
:31:16. > :31:21.leaving is not getting part of the debate? Well, he made the decision
:31:22. > :31:29.that the Cabinet could go their own way. That's not the point. I don't
:31:30. > :31:34.want to see blue on blue. But leave is the official campaign. We went to
:31:35. > :31:39.all the trouble of having a system, a process by which a leave campaign
:31:40. > :31:42.and remain campaign would be selected as being the campaign. ITV
:31:43. > :31:46.cannot then say we are going to stage a debate with the Prime
:31:47. > :31:54.Minister and somebody who doesn't represent the leave campaign.
:31:55. > :31:57.Because we know Mr Cameron wants to juxtapose himself with Nigel Farage
:31:58. > :32:02.because he thinks he wins that, not with Michael Gove or Boris Johnson?
:32:03. > :32:08.Yes. Should the broadcasters go along with that? Well, in a sense...
:32:09. > :32:12.No, they should not. You have been complaining about our need to be
:32:13. > :32:16.independent. But the broadcasters are being. I think the idea of the
:32:17. > :32:20.Wembley Arena is absolutely mad but the BBC have made it absolutely
:32:21. > :32:27.clear they are going to go ahead with it whether or not we like it.
:32:28. > :32:32.Mr Cameron won't take part in it. Gordon Brown was the only serving
:32:33. > :32:34.Prime Minister who ever agreed to go head-to-head at a general election.
:32:35. > :32:40.Because he knew he was going to lose. May well be the case. Channel
:32:41. > :32:50.4 News has led the way in this, we are going to lead on it tomorrow in
:32:51. > :32:53.the Daily Politics. Seven police forces have launched investigations
:32:54. > :32:57.into potential Conservative electoral fraud. The potential to
:32:58. > :33:01.become a scandal and today I think it was, the Tory Central Office
:33:02. > :33:05.couldn't get its response in in time, it's now in breach of court
:33:06. > :33:13.orders. You have blind sided me on this, I haven't followed this. You
:33:14. > :33:17.haven't? No. You have, Alan? No. It's about the allocation of
:33:18. > :33:25.expenses. There are national limits and there are local limits, and the
:33:26. > :33:28.Tories were bussing people in, financed centrally, staying
:33:29. > :33:31.overnight in hotels, it was claimed it was part of the national
:33:32. > :33:36.campaign. But they were out campaigning for the local MPs in
:33:37. > :33:45.marginal seats. I did see something about that, yes. Can we rerun the
:33:46. > :33:49.general election? Well, it could... Sadiq Khan off to a good start in
:33:50. > :33:56.London? Yes, I entirely agree with what Alan said. It's worth
:33:57. > :33:59.mentioning of course that he scored a handsome victory, Labour
:34:00. > :34:03.comfortably won in London, which of course makes Boris's triumph in the
:34:04. > :34:08.last two mayoral elections look all the more remarkable because I think
:34:09. > :34:13.London is basically a Labour city but Boris can argue he's an election
:34:14. > :34:15.winner. ? And Ruth Davidson's managed to reinvent the
:34:16. > :34:20.Conservatives in Scotland, who would have thought of that? ! Who, but
:34:21. > :34:23.she's done nit a stylish, individual way. She may have replaced the
:34:24. > :34:29.Conservative brand with her own brand. She may well have done, yes.
:34:30. > :34:33.It's going to be a long haul. I'm going up there tomorrow to launch
:34:34. > :34:37.our Labour in for Scotland with Kezia Dugdale and I'm glad she's
:34:38. > :34:42.hanging on because no-one was going to do any better. I understand that.
:34:43. > :34:52.Absolutely, but, you know, we have been through so many leaders, we
:34:53. > :34:56.have burnt through to many leaders. The point I was going to make is
:34:57. > :35:02.that if you do kind of essentially write off Scotland for 2020 or that
:35:03. > :35:07.you only make one or two MPs, you need a 13-point lead in England. I
:35:08. > :35:12.know. Huge. Without the boundary change. With Labour being third in
:35:13. > :35:14.Scotland, have having whatever it was, 55 seats before the last
:35:15. > :35:18.general election, it shows that absolutely anything can happen, it's
:35:19. > :35:25.such a volatile political situation. My advice to you is to catch up with
:35:26. > :35:28.Channel 4 News. Also watch the Daily Politics tomorrow. We'll be on the
:35:29. > :35:33.coat tails of Channel 4 News. Here on This Week,
:35:34. > :35:37.we like to think of ourselves as the epitome of cutting plugged
:35:38. > :35:40.into the political zeitgeist, feeding off the national cool grid
:35:41. > :35:43.down with the kids who are up Nobody doubts that where we lead,
:35:44. > :35:46.other's are bound to follow. So that's why we've decided to drop
:35:47. > :35:50.a Big Base Political Banger and put staying relevant in this week's
:35:51. > :36:07.Spotlight. She has bopped with the Beatles,
:36:08. > :36:10.pounded us with punk... The Ramones are here
:36:11. > :36:12.in the studio now. And introduced us to grime,
:36:13. > :36:15.dubstep and trap, whatever they are. Radio 1's longest serving
:36:16. > :36:19.DJ, Annie Nightingale, But is it hard to stay relevant
:36:20. > :36:26.for as long as she has? Now, if Jezza gets elected in 2020
:36:27. > :36:31.at the age of 70, he would be the oldest person ever
:36:32. > :36:37.to become Prime Minister But if the youth dig your vibe,
:36:38. > :36:47.does age really matter? We are going to fight
:36:48. > :36:50.for every last vote. Bernie Sanders' student-friendly
:36:51. > :36:53.campaign won him another primary this week, the Democrat hopeful
:36:54. > :36:56.taking West Virginia. Bernie would be America's oldest
:36:57. > :36:59.ever President, as would The Donald. As for Hillary, she would be
:37:00. > :37:03.the second oldest, behind current record-holder Ronald Reagan,
:37:04. > :37:08.proving that this year's candidates Meanwhile, City Hall is saying
:37:09. > :37:15."cheerio" to an old Etonian and "hi" Regardless of Sadiq Khan's political
:37:16. > :37:21.party, could there be a more relevant choice for a modern,
:37:22. > :37:27.multicultural London than the son 51 years as a broadcaster
:37:28. > :37:34.and Annie Nightingale is still So whether it's in music,
:37:35. > :37:38.culture or politics, how do you stay relevant
:37:39. > :37:53.in an ever-changing world? Welcome to the programme Annie. I
:37:54. > :38:00.like the joke. You do? Yes. If I'd known, I'd have brought you some...
:38:01. > :38:07.We've got two jokes! Yes. I would have brought you some. Before we get
:38:08. > :38:17.on, what is a big base banger? This is a tune that has a lot of base
:38:18. > :38:23.beats in it. I start mine with three of them. It's very strong, three
:38:24. > :38:30.grab the audience. Quite right too, if only we had an audience to grab.
:38:31. > :38:36.I can help you out. Radio 1 since 1970. Yes. The tortoise is here. I
:38:37. > :38:40.was only 8 at the time, I remember! How have you managed to stay
:38:41. > :38:46.relevant? I'm fascinated by the music and the tortoise. It won't eat
:38:47. > :38:53.you. It's nice. It's going to give you a toe massage. How have you
:38:54. > :38:56.managed to keep relevant? Because I think I'm very genuinely interested
:38:57. > :39:02.in the way music develops and changes all the time. Because now
:39:03. > :39:08.you can make an album on your iPhone, anybody can do it. Don't
:39:09. > :39:11.encourage them? OK, I won't. Because it's so accessible now, there's so
:39:12. > :39:18.much, it can move very quickly, you don't need to be in Abbey Road
:39:19. > :39:22.studios any more to make an album but it means there's a lot more
:39:23. > :39:25.round and it's hard to be recognised. Do you move with the
:39:26. > :39:33.times consciously, have you done that, or does it happen naturally? I
:39:34. > :39:37.want to hear something I haven't said before and John Peel used to
:39:38. > :39:42.say that too and I couldn't put it better. I don't want to hear the
:39:43. > :39:45.same old same old, I want to hear something innovative, somebody doing
:39:46. > :39:51.something different and because it all moves so quickly now and because
:39:52. > :39:55.of the digital world we live in... Which makes it even quicker? Yeah,
:39:56. > :39:59.so somebody can put an element into a tune last week, by next week
:40:00. > :40:03.someone will have heard that, taken it, changed it round and moved it
:40:04. > :40:06.on. That's what continues to fascinate me. You have to want to
:40:07. > :40:11.move with the times. It's so easy for people to slip in and say, it
:40:12. > :40:19.was much better back then? Of course. For most people, when they
:40:20. > :40:25.are young is when music is most important to them. But we also have
:40:26. > :40:29.a generation now in its '60s which has grown up with music probably
:40:30. > :40:40.more important to that generation than any previous generation?
:40:41. > :40:44.Absolutely. Michael was around when Wagner first started. This is the
:40:45. > :40:47.first generation ever that's had this music all through its life and
:40:48. > :40:54.stuck with it and is rather proud of it? I think so. Do you know what's
:40:55. > :41:00.happening in California in October, it's a festival which is kind of an
:41:01. > :41:04.American Glastonbury. This year they'll have Calvin Harris and all
:41:05. > :41:18.the big pop star names of now. So what they've done is, they are going
:41:19. > :41:24.to have what they now call an old festival with Roger Waters, Bob
:41:25. > :41:29.Dylan and all the older ones. Do parents take them with them? Yes,
:41:30. > :41:33.it's fascinating to me. It proves the thing of, it's good to stick
:41:34. > :41:36.together. If you are a band, try and hold it together, stick together if
:41:37. > :41:49.you can because people like the Stones went through very bad years
:41:50. > :41:52.of being unpopular. We have sat on this furniture for 13 years, who'd
:41:53. > :41:57.have guessed that? This programme was supposed to be devised for a
:41:58. > :42:02.young audience and the average age of its presenters when we started
:42:03. > :42:08.was 50 plus now it's 60 plus. The audience was young when we started
:42:09. > :42:13.but got old! You have moved with times Alan haven't you? It's It's
:42:14. > :42:19.the point you make about music. If you are a reader and only ever read
:42:20. > :42:24.Dickens or troll lop, you are bound to listen to more modern music as
:42:25. > :42:30.well as read modern stuff. Annie is a great example of, you can't just
:42:31. > :42:37.say when you reach 60 you can only listen to dire states. Some people
:42:38. > :42:42.feel embarrassed to like certain things, they don't want to look like
:42:43. > :42:54.they are getting down with the kids. You are DJ-ing at a festival? Yes,
:42:55. > :42:56.How the Light Gets In. Hay-on-Wye. Yes.
:42:57. > :42:59.Now that's your lot for tonight folks.
:43:00. > :43:01.But not for us, because it's Unaccompanied Child Refugee
:43:02. > :43:06.At first we weren't going to go, as we didn't see the point.
:43:07. > :43:09.Then we found our moral backbone, did an abrupt U-turn,
:43:10. > :43:12.and decided we'd look bad if we didn't turn up so we're off.
:43:13. > :43:14.But we're hoping only a handful turn up.
:43:15. > :43:16.But we leave you tonight with our continent staring
:43:17. > :43:20.Because if the Eurovision Song Contest is, as they say,
:43:21. > :43:23.war by other means, then what you are about to see must
:43:24. > :43:42.Nighty night, don't let the full horror of the This Week entry bite.
:43:43. > :43:54.Thank you. My my At Waterloo. Napoleon did surrender. Oh yeah And
:43:55. > :43:58.I have met my destiny in quite a similar way. The history book on the
:43:59. > :44:15.shelf. Is always repeating itself. Waterloo. I was defeated you won the
:44:16. > :44:22.war. Oh, yeah. Waterloo. Promise you'll love me for ever more.
:44:23. > :44:28.welcome to the greatest city on earth,
:44:29. > :44:37.You've got the best view, my brother.
:44:38. > :44:40.Oh, I don't want to look! SCREAMING