:00:07. > :00:09.# This is the self-preservation society.#
:00:10. > :00:19.Whatever you think about our mates across the
:00:20. > :00:21.Channel, gold bullion expert Martin Lewis tells us why
:00:22. > :00:26.Wait till you see those Italian birds.
:00:27. > :00:31.So, what will happen if we leave the EU?
:00:32. > :00:37.Masterminding the job on the outside, Quentin Letts looks at
:00:38. > :00:40.the Downing Street self-preservation society.
:00:41. > :00:43.I want Charlie Croker given a good going over.
:00:44. > :00:46.Cameron, Farage and Cohen had a bit of a bumpy ride
:00:47. > :00:49.this week when they ran into that unyielding force, the voter.
:00:50. > :00:53.Does Mr Bridger think he can take over Europe?
:00:54. > :00:56.Film-maker Michael Moore has been touring the Continent trying to
:00:57. > :00:57.find bits of European culture worth nicking.
:00:58. > :01:05.Oi, shut that bloody water cannon off.
:01:06. > :01:08.And he likes a bit of confrontation, our Jerry Springer,
:01:09. > :01:11.but if Hillary and Donald were slugging it out in his studio,
:01:12. > :01:27.Never mind separating those two, I am making a getaway before Michael
:01:28. > :01:27.and Liz have at each other on This Week.
:01:28. > :01:34.You're only supposed to blow the bloody doors off.
:01:35. > :01:41.This is a foreign job to help with this
:01:42. > :01:56.# This is the self-preservation society...#
:01:57. > :02:00.Welcome to This Week, the bewildered little Japanese boy
:02:01. > :02:03.of British broadcasting, stranded in the scary forest
:02:04. > :02:07.that is BBC current affairs, abandoned for lost by cruel
:02:08. > :02:12.schedulers who know no mercy and seem to have no concept of time.
:02:13. > :02:15.And yet you have stumbled upon us, despite BBC Yentobs'
:02:16. > :02:21.And you find us watching the clock, because the midnight hour
:02:22. > :02:24.approaches, and if you haven't yet registered to vote in the upcoming
:02:25. > :02:30.referendum, you quite literally have only minutes to spare.
:02:31. > :02:32.As of 11:59pm, the Government's registration website will
:02:33. > :02:36.self-destruct, and your democratic disenfranchisement will be
:02:37. > :02:42.Of course, the deadline was supposed to be two nights ago,
:02:43. > :02:46.but the website crashed before it could officially implode,
:02:47. > :02:50.after a post-pub plebiscite surge overwhelmed the ZX81 motherboard
:02:51. > :02:57.Conspiracy theories now swirl, and the more wild-eyed Brexiteers
:02:58. > :03:01.smell a stitch-up and a cover-up rather than a cock-up,
:03:02. > :03:04.claiming the decision to extend the deadline was not simply
:03:05. > :03:07.because the website crashed, but because the Government wants
:03:08. > :03:13.more Remain supporters to sign up, so officials engineered it.
:03:14. > :03:15.Those who think that are poor, deluded souls.
:03:16. > :03:19.If you think Whitehall has the skill or expertise to organise the crash
:03:20. > :03:23.of an official website, then you clearly have no idea how
:03:24. > :03:29.useless all governments are when it comes to all matters digital.
:03:30. > :03:31.Most of the time they can barely keep their websites
:03:32. > :03:35.The idea they're clever enough to cause a crash can only mean
:03:36. > :03:41.you've hit the Blue Nun even earlier than usual.
:03:42. > :03:43.Speaking of those who couldn't tell their digital servers
:03:44. > :03:45.from their butlers, I'm joined on the sofa tonight
:03:46. > :03:47.by two unacceptable faces of modern Britain.
:03:48. > :03:51.Think of them as the Sports Direct and the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit
:03:52. > :03:59.I speak, of course, of #fourpercent Liz "Miserables" Kendall and Michael
:04:00. > :04:09."Leopard-Print Budgie Smugglers" Portillo.
:04:10. > :04:15.Your moment of the week? The selection of Hillary Clinton as the
:04:16. > :04:22.Democratic candidate because it makes it possible for there to be a
:04:23. > :04:25.woman President. I was struck by a parallel with Margaret Thatcher,
:04:26. > :04:29.immediately people saying how many young women dislike the candidate.
:04:30. > :04:32.It also struck me that perhaps the parallel in America would be more
:04:33. > :04:36.like Mrs Blair running for the presidency because of the baggage
:04:37. > :04:41.she carries from her husband, President Clinton. In any case, the
:04:42. > :04:47.United States puts itself in a position possibly in 2016 to do what
:04:48. > :04:53.we achieved in 1979, have a woman on top. And what India achieved many
:04:54. > :04:58.years before that. Snap, the same moment. There have been 56
:04:59. > :05:01.presidential elections, 33 before women even had the vote this is the
:05:02. > :05:06.first time either major party has had a woman. Because Hillary Clinton
:05:07. > :05:11.has been around for so long, I think we underestimate what a huge
:05:12. > :05:16.achievement this has been. It has not quite made the headlines you
:05:17. > :05:19.would think. It should do. For me, it is not just because she is a
:05:20. > :05:27.woman but because she fights for women. Having a woman who is a proud
:05:28. > :05:30.feminist as well as the presidential candidate I think will be
:05:31. > :05:33.inspirational to women. And look at what she has been through. If any of
:05:34. > :05:41.us had been through that in our professional and private lives...
:05:42. > :05:44.Married to Bill? Exactly. She comes back, never gives up, relentless,
:05:45. > :05:51.and I hope she sucks it to Donald Trump. -- socks.
:05:52. > :05:55.Decision time will soon be upon us, and the big question remains
:05:56. > :05:58.the same - whose campaign party should the This Week team attend
:05:59. > :06:02.After all, we're not on air that night, so we can parteee!
:06:03. > :06:06.Leave.EU are providing free champagne right through to 6am.
:06:07. > :06:09.Stronger In Europe have promised an exclusive rendition of Ode To Joy
:06:10. > :06:11.from the Kinnock Family Singers, plus Liz Kendall on spoons
:06:12. > :06:17.But the rest of you still have to think about the issues and then
:06:18. > :06:22.We turned to a man who thinks he can help,
:06:23. > :06:31.Here's his referendum take of the week.
:06:32. > :06:44.All week, politicians have been on TV
:06:45. > :06:48.Spin and spiel, it's black, it's white.
:06:49. > :06:54.But in the biggest question everyone's asking me,
:06:55. > :06:58.what will happen if we leave, the truth is, there are no facts.
:06:59. > :07:10.Anyone who tells you they know what will happen is a liar.
:07:11. > :07:11.This is actually a very finely balanced decision.
:07:12. > :07:19.And politicians would be more believable if they admitted that.
:07:20. > :07:25.For me, what we need to do is a risk assessment.
:07:26. > :07:28.The EU is unquestionably distant, only vaguely accountable,
:07:29. > :07:35.inefficient and out of sync with much of the population.
:07:36. > :07:37.Though were it more democratic, many would then argue it
:07:38. > :07:43.But if we leave, well, look at the UK.
:07:44. > :07:46.We have an unelected legislature in the form of the Lords,
:07:47. > :07:50.only 37% of people voted for our government and the truth
:07:51. > :07:53.is that we, too, are run by civil servants.
:07:54. > :07:59.But at least here there is genuine political oversight.
:08:00. > :08:05.Certainly, if we leave the EU we will have full control
:08:06. > :08:07.over our own borders, but there is still a risk.
:08:08. > :08:10.It's possible that as a term of a future trade deal
:08:11. > :08:12.with our EU partners, they demand we sign up
:08:13. > :08:18.And if we take it, that means we are in the same boat as now
:08:19. > :08:28.Now, it's certainly riskier to leave than to stay,
:08:29. > :08:31.but I mean risk in its true sense, as as it of variance,
:08:32. > :08:36.We could leave and be a nimble tiger economy,
:08:37. > :08:39.unfettered by the EU, all we could be languishing on the
:08:40. > :08:46.Most independent experts do say leaving is likely to be detrimental,
:08:47. > :08:50.And I'm biased towards that opinion, too.
:08:51. > :08:59.the EU, or we could be languishing on the sidelines after a bitter It's
:09:00. > :09:03.But that doesn't mean it will happen. It's just a measure of
:09:04. > :09:05.chance. And from the Big Sky
:09:06. > :09:07.studios in Kings Cross to our little This Week studio
:09:08. > :09:09.here in Westminster, It's only controversial
:09:10. > :09:25.Ukip suspendee and thorn Welcome back. You say there are no
:09:26. > :09:29.hard facts and no one can predict what will happen to the economy,
:09:30. > :09:35.many trying to make out they can. Can't tell what will happen to house
:09:36. > :09:40.prices. But you say a vote for Brexit is unquestionably
:09:41. > :09:43.economically riskier. Why? Risk in its genuine sense. Whisk in
:09:44. > :09:47.financial terms can be a good thing because people hope for a good
:09:48. > :09:54.reward, but at a chance they will lose out. -- risk. It could work for
:09:55. > :09:57.us, it could not. My summary is, if you are not willing to take the risk
:09:58. > :10:01.that things could get worse, you should vote to stay in. If you are
:10:02. > :10:05.willing to take the risk that things could get worse in the hope that
:10:06. > :10:11.they will get better, you should probably vote out. But risk is not a
:10:12. > :10:15.bad thing in the true sense. It is a measure of variance. Of course, the
:10:16. > :10:20.future is not certain if we stay in, but it is more uncertain if we
:10:21. > :10:27.leave. It is like putting money in a savings account or a hedge fund.
:10:28. > :10:32.Exactly. The EU is mired in troubles at the moment, particularly the
:10:33. > :10:39.eurozone. So there could be risks of staying in, to. There are certainly
:10:40. > :10:44.risks of staying in. No question. But in terms of what we know will
:10:45. > :10:47.happen, there is more stability. It is interesting, you watch the debate
:10:48. > :10:53.and people talk about the pound dropping after a Brexit vote. Of
:10:54. > :10:56.course, because the Brexit vote is uncertain and markets hate
:10:57. > :11:00.uncertainty. We don't know whether that would be a short-term shock on
:11:01. > :11:03.the back of big change, or whether it would be a much longer economic
:11:04. > :11:09.downturn, which is what many experts are predicting. I think probably in
:11:10. > :11:14.short and medium term we would have real negatives. I suspect longer
:11:15. > :11:17.term it would be back deck Willoughby, in 25 years. It is
:11:18. > :11:23.difficult to call, but I do not think anyone -- I do not want anyone
:11:24. > :11:27.to think I am saying that I know. You would expect the pound to be
:11:28. > :11:32.weak if the Prime Minister and Chancellor are running down our
:11:33. > :11:36.prospects. Although it is higher than it was when the referendum was
:11:37. > :11:42.called. But you have other issues affecting the pound. I watched the
:11:43. > :11:47.debate tonight, and what really annoyed me was that on every
:11:48. > :11:51.question from every member of the audience, the Remain campaigners
:11:52. > :11:54.made out that the question, whether immigration, sovereignty or the
:11:55. > :11:58.economy, they made out at staying in the EU was good on that subject and
:11:59. > :12:02.the Leave campaigners made out that leaving would be good. The truth is
:12:03. > :12:06.we know some things are good and some are bad and you need to weigh
:12:07. > :12:12.them up, which is why the public are not trusting politicians. It is a
:12:13. > :12:17.binary vote, but not a binary argument. Michael, fear of the
:12:18. > :12:22.unknown, that is the Leave campaign's biggest problem, is it
:12:23. > :12:27.not? I don't know that it is. The first thing I would say is that over
:12:28. > :12:30.the last two years we have seen that the greatest achievement of the
:12:31. > :12:34.European Union is the euro and that has been a hazardous undertaking. It
:12:35. > :12:39.has been in danger of collapsing, member states have been in danger of
:12:40. > :12:42.leaving it. It has created mass unemployment in southern Europe,
:12:43. > :12:47.plunged Europe as a whole into negative growth. You have to put
:12:48. > :12:51.these things together. If you have free movement of people and you
:12:52. > :12:54.create mass unemployment in southern Europe by having the euro, what is
:12:55. > :12:58.going to happen? Migrants will move to where the jobs are in Northern
:12:59. > :13:03.Europe. This is part of a political plot. One would have more confidence
:13:04. > :13:07.in the European economy if it were run as an economy, but it is being
:13:08. > :13:11.run as a political project. The invention of the euro is nothing to
:13:12. > :13:15.do with good economics but about creating a European state. Its
:13:16. > :13:19.consequences in the short, medium and possibly long-term are
:13:20. > :13:25.economically disastrous. There are enormous risks in remaining attached
:13:26. > :13:31.to this economy. Isn't fear of the unknown, it is a bigger step to vote
:13:32. > :13:36.to leave, than it is to remain, it is difficult for your side to give
:13:37. > :13:41.us a clear idea, even a picture of what it would be like to be out. It
:13:42. > :13:45.is difficult because it is human nature to avoid change. If you are
:13:46. > :13:50.somebody who is comfortable, not struggling to find a job, a young
:13:51. > :13:53.person struggling to find a job, somebody a working-class community
:13:54. > :13:57.trying to get a job at minimum wage and facing competition from Eastern
:13:58. > :14:03.European migrants or whatever, it is easy to think, my life is not too
:14:04. > :14:06.bad, so why should we take the risk? But as Martin says, it is a
:14:07. > :14:12.calculated risk and they are good things. No one would get anywhere in
:14:13. > :14:13.business... Is it calculated if we don't quite know what the future
:14:14. > :14:28.holds? It could be better or worse. We don't know what Remain looks like
:14:29. > :14:33.as well, because that is the point, the EU has never produced a
:14:34. > :14:40.manifesto. It has always been quite secretive about its ultimate plans
:14:41. > :14:44.and destiny. But surely we have less variance, we have a better picture
:14:45. > :14:50.of what Remain would be like them we do what Leave would be like. I am
:14:51. > :14:55.not saying risk is bad, that common-sense says there is more
:14:56. > :15:02.uncertainty if we have this seismic change. Let me bring lives in. Given
:15:03. > :15:10.the weight of economic opinion on your side of Remain, is it
:15:11. > :15:16.surprisingly polls are so tight? No, one thing I have seen change over
:15:17. > :15:21.the last couple of weeks is how people are looking at their lives
:15:22. > :15:28.over the last five, ten years, changes in the way the economy has
:15:29. > :15:33.worked even before the crash, and the EU is ending up being the things
:15:34. > :15:37.that people are looking at and questioning overall sorts of issues,
:15:38. > :15:42.it is a referendum on the Government's record, on the way the
:15:43. > :15:46.economy works and the fact that most people were not seeing the benefits
:15:47. > :15:54.of the growth before the crash, and it is getting muddled up. It is a
:15:55. > :15:58.difficult question for both sides to deal with. We don't know with
:15:59. > :16:02.certainty what will happen if we remain, and we should admit that,
:16:03. > :16:06.but we do have more of a sense of what it would look like, and there
:16:07. > :16:13.is far more risk if we pull out. You are right, it is funny, when you are
:16:14. > :16:20.talking to your own side, they like that passion, total certainty, but
:16:21. > :16:23.most people, if you talk to them on the doorstep, if you do a bit of
:16:24. > :16:30.give and take and understanding, they are more likely to listen.
:16:31. > :16:36.There is a sense now, it is not just that people don't trust politicians,
:16:37. > :16:41.it is almost like any expert, any of the elite, anyone with experience,
:16:42. > :16:47.that is being questioned. People don't trust everyone, from
:16:48. > :16:52.broadcasters to businesses. You raise an interesting point, in the
:16:53. > :16:57.next two weeks there will be two forces at work. In most referendum
:16:58. > :17:02.there is a move to the status quo. It did not happen in Scotland, but
:17:03. > :17:07.that was the exception. On the other hand, there is this mood that Liz is
:17:08. > :17:13.talking about, this referendum is taking place, it is an
:17:14. > :17:18.antiestablishment, anti-mainstream voice, which one will win? That will
:17:19. > :17:23.determine the outcome. I am confident we are going to win. We
:17:24. > :17:30.have the Government until the end of her debt just trekking everything it
:17:31. > :17:34.could, spraying frightening bullets left, right and centre. You are not
:17:35. > :17:41.worried about the return to status quo? People are wanting change. It
:17:42. > :17:48.is not quite what Liz said, this has been a thing for 44 years. The
:17:49. > :17:52.Remain side spent a lot of their bullets to early, Barack Obama, the
:17:53. > :18:00.G7. I had an interesting chat with a neighbour, I said, where are you? He
:18:01. > :18:07.said, I am 60% out. I think I am going to vote in because you have to
:18:08. > :18:11.be 65% out to vote out. That is the move to the status quo. That perhaps
:18:12. > :18:18.happens when you are putting your cross on the form. I look at my
:18:19. > :18:22.social media, I would say that is looking more and outvote them and
:18:23. > :18:32.invoke, that there will be some bounce back to the status quo. I
:18:33. > :18:41.waded up,... I did not approve the leaflets. I am 55% N. No move for
:18:42. > :18:42.manoeuvre. But just in, on a risk analysis.
:18:43. > :18:44.Steve-Double-MP-working-late-at-the- -office late.
:18:45. > :18:47.So why don't you burn the midnight oil, and your moral bridges too,
:18:48. > :18:49.because waiting in the wings, Oscar-winning documentary
:18:50. > :18:52.filmmaker Michael Moore, along with the one and only Jerry
:18:53. > :18:59.Here to discuss America, Europe and all points in between.
:19:00. > :19:01.And if you have nothing in between your ears,
:19:02. > :19:04.you'll feel right at home on the Twitter, the Fleecebook,
:19:05. > :19:07.DownPeriscope, InstaNumpty, Snap Crackle and Pop and Gordon
:19:08. > :19:13.Now, according to the producer of the original version
:19:14. > :19:17.of The Italian Job, it was the very first Eurosceptic film.
:19:18. > :19:20.Which must mean that this is the second, because here's a man
:19:21. > :19:25.from the Daily Mail with an unlikely sequel, and our roundup
:19:26. > :19:29.AS MICHAEL CAINE: His name is Quentin Letts.
:19:30. > :19:41.Come on, lads, keep loading the gold.
:19:42. > :19:49.Tonight, Euro 2016 kicks off in France, but will England and
:19:50. > :19:58.Wales still be playing in Europe when the tournament is over?
:19:59. > :20:18.This week, politicians on both sides of the
:20:19. > :20:23.referendum debate discovered roads in Europe can be a little bumpy.
:20:24. > :20:25.On Monday, the Remain campaign invoked the spirit of the Italian
:20:26. > :20:29.Job to say that Brexit would be a car crash for British motoring
:20:30. > :20:34.Did anyone tell them the film is all about a bunch of
:20:35. > :20:38.plucky Brits getting one over the continentals?
:20:39. > :20:40.Arrivederci to the spinmeister who thought that one
:20:41. > :20:45.Some are beginning to wonder if the Remain campaigners stuck in
:20:46. > :20:51.Meanwhile, first stop on this week's European tour was the
:20:52. > :21:02.After weeks of zooming around the country in their campaign
:21:03. > :21:05.buses, Nigel Farage and David Cameron
:21:06. > :21:06.were flagged down by the
:21:07. > :21:24.Both men may have thought they had gone
:21:25. > :21:28.into this in these self-preservation society
:21:29. > :21:35.I think, to make this country safer, we need to get back British
:21:36. > :21:39.passports so we can check anybody else coming into this country.
:21:40. > :21:42.I worry if we leave that we are going
:21:43. > :21:44.to see our economy suffer because we are
:21:45. > :21:46.going to lose access to the
:21:47. > :21:49.absolutely vital market that we have.
:21:50. > :21:53.do, the British thing to do, is to fight for
:21:54. > :21:58.European Union and don't take the Nigel Farage
:21:59. > :22:04.Mr Cameron hopes to depict all leavers as part of Nigel Farage's
:22:05. > :22:09.merry caper, but at PMQs, Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn threw a spanner
:22:10. > :22:14.The Labour position is that we want to stay in
:22:15. > :22:17.the European Union to improve workers' rights, tackle
:22:18. > :22:23.exploitation, drive down tax evasion and avoidance.
:22:24. > :22:27.But we are concerned that these issues are not the
:22:28. > :22:30.priorities of members of his Government
:22:31. > :22:32.and his party, such as
:22:33. > :22:37.the member for Uxbridge, the member for Surrey
:22:38. > :22:44.And here I am trying to be consensual.
:22:45. > :22:48.I could mention that the honourable member for Edgbaston was out
:22:49. > :22:53.The SNP's chief mechanic, Angus Robertson, gave Mr Cameron a
:22:54. > :22:59.Mr Speaker, European corporation emerged from
:23:00. > :23:03.both World Wars as the best way to secure peace.
:23:04. > :23:06.So does the Prime Minister agree that we should never
:23:07. > :23:09.take peace and security for granted, and that is a strong reason to
:23:10. > :23:17.I want to be clear about this because the
:23:18. > :23:23.words World War III have never passed my lips.
:23:24. > :23:25.But can we really take for granted...
:23:26. > :23:41.Time now for a diversion across the pond, where
:23:42. > :23:43.Hillary Clinton finally claimed the chequered flag as the Democrat
:23:44. > :23:47.The first time in our nation's history that a
:23:48. > :23:54.woman will be a major party's nominee.
:23:55. > :23:59.I spoke briefly to Secretary Clinton on Tuesday night,
:24:00. > :24:08.and I congratulated her on her very strong campaign.
:24:09. > :24:11.I look forward to meeting with her in the near future to see
:24:12. > :24:15.how we can work together to defeat Donald Trump and to create
:24:16. > :24:19.a government which represents all of us, and not just the 1%.
:24:20. > :24:21.In British politics, we are accustomed to the
:24:22. > :24:30.In tonight's debate, for instance, there are five
:24:31. > :24:32.women and only one man, and he's blonde.
:24:33. > :24:33.I am massively pro-immigration, the descendant of
:24:34. > :24:38.But there has to be democratic consent for the
:24:39. > :24:47.There isn't a silver bullet and I know
:24:48. > :24:49.that is what Boris and his team would like, but you need
:24:50. > :24:54.I fear the only number Boris is interested in is the one
:24:55. > :24:58.Nearly home, and then the fun really starts.
:24:59. > :25:04.Politics, as ever, is about the self-preservation
:25:05. > :25:17.Quentin Letts there, truly no expense spared.
:25:18. > :25:20.And I'm joined in the studio by two very special guests,
:25:21. > :25:23.filmmaker Michael Moore and TV host with the most Jerry Springer.
:25:24. > :25:40.Is the political mainstream now under threat on both sides of the
:25:41. > :25:48.Atlantic? Times are tough, and when times are tough the way we have it
:25:49. > :25:52.set up, people tend to go to the extremes, at least those who are
:25:53. > :25:57.most vocal. There are people upset with the establishment, so it is not
:25:58. > :26:02.surprising that you would have that in both parties. But come November
:26:03. > :26:11.it is going to be a pretty clear choice. The choice is, I would say,
:26:12. > :26:15.that there has never been anyone running for president of the alert
:26:16. > :26:18.state who is as well prepared and knowledgeable to be president who
:26:19. > :26:24.has not already been president as Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump
:26:25. > :26:31.appears to the anger people have, but totally unqualified to be
:26:32. > :26:36.president. The reason I ask, Michael, it has been an
:26:37. > :26:40.unprecedented armoury season, not just because Donald Trump won the
:26:41. > :26:43.Republican nomination, but this run that Bernie Sanders has given
:26:44. > :26:50.Hillary Clinton for her money. Nobody saw that coming. If the
:26:51. > :26:55.mainstream under threat? The mainstream, the old mainstream, is
:26:56. > :27:01.no longer the mainstream, there is a new mainstream. It is being run by
:27:02. > :27:07.young people. In the United States a socialist tonight has 46% of the
:27:08. > :27:13.pledge delegates to the Democratic convention, has won 22 states,
:27:14. > :27:20.almost half of them. From the Mont! This is historic. But it is because
:27:21. > :27:26.young people have been the engine. It is a new time, it is their time.
:27:27. > :27:35.The 18 to 40-year-olds, this is their election. Will they swing
:27:36. > :27:40.behind Hillary Clinton? I think so. 80% of the people voting in November
:27:41. > :27:47.are either women, people of colour or young adults between 18 and 35,
:27:48. > :27:51.that is 80% of the voters. Who in that group is going to vote for
:27:52. > :27:55.Donald Trump? He has completely offended those groups. We have had
:27:56. > :28:00.plenty of people on this over telling us he would never get close
:28:01. > :28:08.to the Republican nomination. He was running in eight Republican primary.
:28:09. > :28:16.When you look at a Republican universe in America,... I
:28:17. > :28:21.understand. He was still not supposed to get it. He got the
:28:22. > :28:28.nomination, and I believe he can win in November. I wanted to an
:28:29. > :28:33.impersonation of myself at 25. This is what I sounded like. There is no
:28:34. > :28:39.way an actor is going to be president of the United States, and
:28:40. > :28:43.the actor whose co-star was a chimpanzee, no way would that
:28:44. > :28:47.happen! Now, there is no way George W Bush is going to get elected, that
:28:48. > :28:53.is not going to happen. I have learned my lesson. He can get
:28:54. > :29:01.elected. All he has to do is win the traditional red states, from Idaho
:29:02. > :29:06.and Utah to Georgia. When does and then win the Ross belt. If he gets
:29:07. > :29:11.Michigan, higher, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin...
:29:12. > :29:22.I want to broaden it out from American psephology. If Leaver wins
:29:23. > :29:26.on June 23, will it not have been propelled to victory by similar
:29:27. > :29:38.forces to those behind Trump and samplers? -- Sandham. It would be
:29:39. > :29:42.unusual for it to be decided on the referendum question put before the
:29:43. > :29:46.people. People decide on whatever they want. How they feel at the
:29:47. > :29:51.time. That is why it is dangerous for a government call a referendum
:29:52. > :29:54.because a government is unpopular a year into office. A lot of people
:29:55. > :29:59.will have complaints about the government. Cameron is relying on
:30:00. > :30:05.Labour voters, Scottish National Party is, to secure victory for him.
:30:06. > :30:09.For those reasons, it is precarious. I think that tactically, Remain has
:30:10. > :30:14.made mistakes. They fired their bullets to early. They have arrived
:30:15. > :30:18.at a situation where people think most of what they say is exaggerated
:30:19. > :30:21.and unbelievable. And they certainly now believe the establishment is not
:30:22. > :30:27.to be trusted so I am agreeing with the point you made before. Whether
:30:28. > :30:32.that leads to leave winning, I don't know. In both countries, there are
:30:33. > :30:37.huge swathes of people who feel left out and left behind. This has been
:30:38. > :30:41.happening over probably ten years or more. People on ordinary incomes
:30:42. > :30:46.have not seen any of the benefits of growth. It has gone to if you are
:30:47. > :30:49.the top, it does not seem fair. If, as I hope, we vote to remain in
:30:50. > :30:54.Europe, those issues will not have gone away. We cannot thing, we have
:30:55. > :30:58.won the referendum, let's move onto something else. We need a change in
:30:59. > :31:02.the way the economy works. I would argue there is even greater pressure
:31:03. > :31:07.on Labour to do that because we are seeing that in our traditional
:31:08. > :31:13.heartlands. A lot of ordinary people have lost out. The 2008 credit crash
:31:14. > :31:19.still rankles with people, they are still feeling the fallout from that.
:31:20. > :31:23.But in many parts of the world, the right is doing just as well,
:31:24. > :31:31.capitalising on that, more than the left. Why? First of all, what we
:31:32. > :31:35.share in common with your Brexit vote and Trump in our country is the
:31:36. > :31:40.rise of nationalism. Manipulating people with the fear of the other,
:31:41. > :31:44.the immigrant, the Mexican, the Muslim, whatever it is. And this is
:31:45. > :31:52.a scary time for both countries because this is kind of a 21st
:31:53. > :31:57.century crypto fascism that is starting to boil up. There is an
:31:58. > :32:04.extra factor in the United States, which made Trump inevitable. For the
:32:05. > :32:09.last 40 years in America, ever since Reagan said government cannot solve
:32:10. > :32:14.problems, government is the problem, we have raised at least two
:32:15. > :32:16.generations of Americans to believe government is horrible, Washington
:32:17. > :32:21.is totally corrupt, they do not expect the President, eight
:32:22. > :32:26.Washington. So every commercial that you see in America, the television
:32:27. > :32:33.commercial says the other guy is a balm, should be in jail, a pervert,
:32:34. > :32:37.whatever. After 40 years of that, we cannot be surprised that someone
:32:38. > :32:41.ultimately rises in politics to be anti-government. And it is going to
:32:42. > :32:45.be someone, you have to be well-known, so the only two fields
:32:46. > :32:49.in America where you can be well-known, other than politics, is
:32:50. > :32:54.sports or entertainment. Athletes are too young, so we should have
:32:55. > :32:57.seen that at some point an entertainer, and I am not talking
:32:58. > :33:04.about Reagan, because at least he was a governor before and had a
:33:05. > :33:09.political philosophy. It has partly in a way been a
:33:10. > :33:12.problem, obviously the right often attacks collective government, but
:33:13. > :33:18.the left has not done enough to reform and defend it. That is true,
:33:19. > :33:21.but anything the government touches, there is a right wing in America
:33:22. > :33:27.that has just built up this feeling that anything Washington does is
:33:28. > :33:33.horrible. Your point on migration. In this country, since the 1960s it
:33:34. > :33:36.has been almost impossible to discuss migration. It has been
:33:37. > :33:39.taboo. People have got more and more fed up with that fact. They do not
:33:40. > :33:44.feel anybody is prepared to discuss what matters to them most. During
:33:45. > :33:49.the referendum campaign, whenever the question of migration is raised,
:33:50. > :33:52.the Remain campaigners say, let's talk about the economy. I feel these
:33:53. > :33:57.people who feel they have been ignored for 50 years on this subject
:33:58. > :34:02.feel the referendum is an arch example of how people refuse to take
:34:03. > :34:07.what concerns them seriously. If you were to say what you have just said,
:34:08. > :34:09.this is crypto fascism, it is not crypto fascism, it is people being
:34:10. > :34:16.worried about jobs, housing and schooling. You think that is why
:34:17. > :34:22.people are behind Donald Trump? Have you watched the rallies and listened
:34:23. > :34:25.to him? This is scary, what this man is saying. It is outright racism and
:34:26. > :34:32.it has to be called out for what it is. He is really talking about the
:34:33. > :34:38.referendum. I know that. It is two different things. As outsiders, it
:34:39. > :34:42.is up to you if you want to stay in Europe, but it looks bonkers to us.
:34:43. > :34:50.Why would Britain want to leave Europe? Can I come back... It is
:34:51. > :34:54.good to have another American intervention, although the one from
:34:55. > :35:00.the President, we are not sure if it was helpful or unhelpful. One has to
:35:01. > :35:09.explain to an American why we would want to be independent. That is a
:35:10. > :35:14.sad evening. Independent? For all of this talk about insurgence, and
:35:15. > :35:17.there are huge insurgence on the left and right on both sides of the
:35:18. > :35:21.land tick, and the mainstream is under huge threat. So far, the
:35:22. > :35:27.mainstream is holding. -- the Atlantic. Mrs Clinton won the
:35:28. > :35:33.nomination, not Bernie Sanders. She is favourite to win. Remain is still
:35:34. > :35:38.favourite among the bookies to stay there. The hard right man did not
:35:39. > :35:41.win the presidency in Austria. Marine Le Pen will probably come
:35:42. > :35:44.first in the first round of the French ballot but will not win in
:35:45. > :35:50.the second. The mainstream is holding on by its fingertips. It
:35:51. > :35:53.might be too much of a cliche to just use the one term, the
:35:54. > :35:58.establishment, the mainstream, and then throw all these well-known
:35:59. > :36:03.candidates in. Clearly, you could look at Hillary Clinton and say,
:36:04. > :36:07.maybe she is too close to the financial institutions, she has been
:36:08. > :36:16.in politics a long time. Incorrectly, wrongly, clearly, she
:36:17. > :36:20.has admitted that. On issues like health, children and education, no
:36:21. > :36:24.one seriously believes that if she became President she would be far
:36:25. > :36:28.cutting back on all that stuff. My question was just about the
:36:29. > :36:33.mainstream, not a party political broadcast. The mainstream is
:36:34. > :36:39.holding. We are running out of time to talk about your documentary. I
:36:40. > :36:51.thought that might change your mind. I don't want to talk about my movie.
:36:52. > :36:53.Behaviour solves or we will send you back to the colonies.
:36:54. > :36:56.Now, we like to think we're rather continental here on This Week,
:36:57. > :36:58.and that's why we've made sure our working conditions
:36:59. > :37:01.Short hours and astronomical pay, long lazy holidays and
:37:02. > :37:04.No discrimination or bullying in the workplace, no compulsory
:37:05. > :37:06.sexual harassment of anyone except Michael Portillo,
:37:07. > :37:08.yes, we are truly living the Social Charter dream!
:37:09. > :37:10.And that's why Michael and Jerry are sticking with us,
:37:11. > :37:18.and we're putting progressive Europe in this week's Spotlight.
:37:19. > :37:23.New movie, Where To Invade Next, sees the Oscar-winning American
:37:24. > :37:26.documentary maker travel to Europe to plunder some of its most
:37:27. > :37:32.I have invaded your country, essentially, to take
:37:33. > :37:34.this incredible idea that all college should
:37:35. > :37:41.His films, Fahrenheit 911 and Bowling For Columbine put the
:37:42. > :37:46.This time, Moore's looking further afield, asking whether the
:37:47. > :37:48.States would benefit from pinching Slovenia's higher education policy,
:37:49. > :37:54.or Finland's child-centred schooling system.
:37:55. > :37:56.School is about finding your happiness.
:37:57. > :38:05.Seven weeks of paid leave but still in the world's top 15 most
:38:06. > :38:08.Has Italy got its work-life balance right?
:38:09. > :38:17.Do you mind paying your employees for all this time off?
:38:18. > :38:20.Or maybe we should copy Iceland, where the only bank that
:38:21. > :38:22.survived the financial crash was run by women.
:38:23. > :38:25.We have a gender quota for the biggest companies.
:38:26. > :38:26.You mean the company's board of directors?
:38:27. > :38:34.So you have to be either 40%, at least 40% women or 40% men.
:38:35. > :38:36.But among his invasions, Moore avoids the UK.
:38:37. > :38:38.So how does that reflect on us and what
:38:39. > :38:53.lessons can we learn about the good life from our continental cousins?
:38:54. > :39:01.If you were only allowed to take back one European idea, what would
:39:02. > :39:10.it be? It would not be a specific thing like paid maternity leave, or
:39:11. > :39:18.paid vacation, which we don't have. What I would take back is your
:39:19. > :39:29.general belief in the concept of we. New structure the policy around we.
:39:30. > :39:33.You are constantly in this attitude of being in the same boat, we sink
:39:34. > :39:41.or swim together. You have political differences by your basic public
:39:42. > :39:45.policies are not individual. Our policies are surrounded by the
:39:46. > :39:51.concept of me. Me, myself and I. If you get sick, you take care of it, I
:39:52. > :39:55.get sick, I will take care of it. The right way is the traditional
:39:56. > :40:01.European way, since World War II. To take care of each other. We should
:40:02. > :40:05.not send a 22-year-old into the world in debts and blue because they
:40:06. > :40:11.wanted to go to university. In Europe, we keep 22-year-old is
:40:12. > :40:17.unemployed. How come 50% of young Greeks are unemployed, 45% of young
:40:18. > :40:27.Spaniards, 22% of young French, 40% of young Italians? That does not
:40:28. > :40:32.sound very collective to me. You are concerned about that. Why would you
:40:33. > :40:38.not be? You look at the larger picture. Germany has a higher
:40:39. > :40:43.deployment rate. It doesn't. It is higher than the US. It is the lowest
:40:44. > :40:47.youth unemployment rate in the Western world. Germany, France,
:40:48. > :40:52.European countries traditionally have a higher and implement rate
:40:53. > :40:57.than the United States. But the way you structure this is that while you
:40:58. > :41:00.do not have a job, there is a safety net. And the safety net helps to
:41:01. > :41:08.guarantee that people do not slip between the cracks and go crazy.
:41:09. > :41:14.RUSI taken by European ideas as Michael? A lot of them. Every
:41:15. > :41:18.civilisation in the world, except possibly North Korea which I do not
:41:19. > :41:26.know a lot about, virtually every society, the United States, China,
:41:27. > :41:29.Cuba, there is a continuum. Pure socialism here, pure capitalism
:41:30. > :41:34.here, and everyone is somewhere on that. We say we are a capitalist
:41:35. > :41:38.society but we have Medicare, which is socialism, and we love it. We
:41:39. > :41:43.have Social Security. Talk about taking it away and people go crazy.
:41:44. > :41:49.We are a combination of both, as are all societies. The discussion is, we
:41:50. > :41:54.could probably move a little more down the continuum towards
:41:55. > :41:58.togetherness, so we are not exclusively individual. I do not
:41:59. > :42:02.think we are completely capitalist, I think we are a combination, as
:42:03. > :42:10.every society is. Is Michael Wright to be as enamoured of European
:42:11. > :42:14.social democracy as he is? I am fairly enamoured by myself and I'm
:42:15. > :42:17.interested in what different countries do. Having toured Europe a
:42:18. > :42:24.lot, I think it is difficult to translate ideas and customs from one
:42:25. > :42:27.place to another. They arise from national circumstances and history.
:42:28. > :42:34.Although we can admire those ideas, it is very difficult to transplant.
:42:35. > :42:40.Here is the rub. Michael is talking essentially about European Social
:42:41. > :42:43.Democrats ideas. European social democratic parties have never been
:42:44. > :42:54.in more trouble since the end of the Second World War. Absolutely.
:42:55. > :42:57.Including the Labour Party. Indeed, and the lack of confidence that
:42:58. > :43:01.afflicts social Democrat parties across Europe when faced with these
:43:02. > :43:04.huge changes in the economy and how they are going to deal with it. You
:43:05. > :43:09.are right, you cannot simply transfer one policy idea from one
:43:10. > :43:13.country to another. But actually opening your eyes and your minds to
:43:14. > :43:17.the fact that possibly things could be different gives you hope and
:43:18. > :43:20.optimism against all of the naysayers and doom and gloom which
:43:21. > :43:27.tells you nothing can change, so I think it is good to learn from other
:43:28. > :43:34.countries. What else did you learn? I went to pick the flowers, not the
:43:35. > :43:38.weeds. You say they have high unemployment. That is like saying,
:43:39. > :43:43.let's say you made a documentary about the United States and you
:43:44. > :43:47.wanted to show how great Silicon Valley is, Americans are great
:43:48. > :43:51.inventors. Apple, Google and all this. And you showed it on the BBC
:43:52. > :43:55.and some presenter said, why didn't you point out that there is a mass
:43:56. > :44:00.shooting in the US every day, at least one. That is because it has
:44:01. > :44:03.nothing to do with the fact that they have Apple and Google and they
:44:04. > :44:10.are great inventors. Countries have both things. In America, the little
:44:11. > :44:18.we hear about Europe is always negative, always bad, always how
:44:19. > :44:23.things run rotten. The Italians are in government number 525 since World
:44:24. > :44:28.War II. I want to show that Italians have seven weeks off, with pay. It
:44:29. > :44:37.is out tomorrow night in 125 cinemas. And it will be beamed live
:44:38. > :44:44.to 125 cinemas. Can I bring my senior citizen card? That sounds a
:44:45. > :44:47.little socialist to me. Thank you both for being with us.
:44:48. > :44:50.But not for us, because it's Top Gear night at Lulu's,
:44:51. > :44:55.But we leave you tonight with news that M has bowed to pressure
:44:56. > :44:57.and banned all piped music from its stores.
:44:58. > :44:59.Apparently people find Muzak really, really annoying.
:45:00. > :45:04.Nighty night, don't let Herb Alpert And The Tijuana Brass