:00:11. > :00:14.Tonight, on the This Week Wing, a former Prime Minister
:00:15. > :00:21.Tony Blair says going to war in Iraq with his American mates was the most
:00:22. > :00:24.agonising decision he ever made, a decision John Chilcot
:00:25. > :00:31.Author Douglas Murray flies the flag for intervention.
:00:32. > :00:34.One failed war does not make all wars wrong, and we've
:00:35. > :00:38.But do we really want our foreign policy decided by China
:00:39. > :00:46.Accusations of dirty tricks and a stitch up in the race
:00:47. > :00:49.for Number Ten, an opposition leader who says he's not going anywhere.
:00:50. > :00:52.No sign of the political drama abating at Westminster.
:00:53. > :00:58.The Spectator's Isabel Hardman says you couldn't make it up.
:00:59. > :01:00.The plots and plotting intensified in Westminster this week,
:01:01. > :01:10.Comedian Omid Djalili asks, why are the masses so
:01:11. > :01:41.A week in which dark, sinister forces have been at work
:01:42. > :01:45.trying to undermine my bid for the Tory leadership by claiming
:01:46. > :01:53.Eton, Oxford, Harvard, the Brigade of Guards,
:01:54. > :01:56.Goldman Sachs, Rothschild's, long-standing presenter
:01:57. > :02:03.What bit of that rather glittering track record is untrue?
:02:04. > :02:06.Of course, I may have embellished a few bits here and there,
:02:07. > :02:09.but who hasn't bigged up their CV when applying for the big job?
:02:10. > :02:11.If anything, I've rather understated my achievements,
:02:12. > :02:15.since I make no mention of my stint as chief cook and bottle washer
:02:16. > :02:17.for Her Majesty at Balmoral, or part-time Dauphin
:02:18. > :02:22.You may have seen me on the eponymous series
:02:23. > :02:28.To question my credentials is unworthy even of a backstabbing
:02:29. > :02:33.Aberdonian fishmonger's son, and we know how low they can go.
:02:34. > :02:36.Speaking of Andrea Leadsom's time as Governor of the Bank of England,
:02:37. > :02:39.I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two bloody difficult men who just
:02:40. > :02:46.Think of them as the Big Lie and Porky Pie of late-night
:02:47. > :02:51.I speak, of course, of the #lammynator David Lammy,
:02:52. > :02:56.#sadmanonatrain Michael "Choo Choo" Portillo and the only one you really
:02:57. > :03:01.care about, #mollythedog, with her little stepsister
:03:02. > :03:26.Your moment of the week? Well, today when it emerged that the next Prime
:03:27. > :03:31.Minister of the United Kingdom will be a woman. It takes you back more
:03:32. > :03:35.than 40 years, when the Conservative Party first chose a woman as a
:03:36. > :03:39.leader, an awfully long time ago. I would just like David to reflect
:03:40. > :03:44.that for all the women only short lists in the Labour Party, all the
:03:45. > :03:47.Blair babes, the Labour Party has never come close to producing a
:03:48. > :03:54.woman leader, and the Conservative Party is about to produce its second
:03:55. > :03:56.woman leader. It's interesting that it's not all about interfering with
:03:57. > :04:00.the process, it's sometimes just about what pops through a party.
:04:01. > :04:07.Don't rise to the bait because I will come back to it later. Give me
:04:08. > :04:11.your moment. It has been a tough week, so I think the moment is out
:04:12. > :04:17.of politics. It's got to be the football. It's the week of
:04:18. > :04:20.underdogs. Iceland, arriving back home to that fantastic Viking
:04:21. > :04:23.charmed, and Wales not quite doing it but the atmosphere in Cardiff,
:04:24. > :04:26.unbelievable. That's my moment. Now, after seven years of waiting,
:04:27. > :04:29.yesterday saw the publication of the Chilcot report into the Iraq
:04:30. > :04:31.War. Far from the whitewash
:04:32. > :04:33.it was expected to be, the report gave a damning account
:04:34. > :04:35.of how then-Prime Minister Tony Blair took Britain
:04:36. > :04:38.into a "disastrous and unnecessary" war, for which post-conflict
:04:39. > :04:43.planning was wholly inadequate. Chilcot's role was not
:04:44. > :04:45.to make a pronouncement on the legality of the invasion,
:04:46. > :04:49.but the 2.6 million-page document leaves the door open
:04:50. > :04:52.for the families of soldiers who died in the campaign
:04:53. > :04:56.to bring a challenge. But do the failings of Iraq mean
:04:57. > :04:58.we should kiss goodbye to the possibility of unilateral
:04:59. > :05:02.action in the future? And who should have to sign off
:05:03. > :05:04.on Britain going to war? Here's Douglas Murray
:05:05. > :05:07.with his take of the week, The Chilcot report has
:05:08. > :05:28.delivered a damning verdict But it will have done nothing
:05:29. > :05:36.to change people's minds. If you thought that Tony Blair
:05:37. > :05:39.was a liar and a war criminal And if you didn't think that,
:05:40. > :05:46.then you still don't. In any case, one failed war does not
:05:47. > :05:49.make all wars wrong. We have a tendency
:05:50. > :05:51.to remember only those We rightly talk about the mess
:05:52. > :06:02.that's been created in Iraq and in Libya, but very rarely talk
:06:03. > :06:07.about those interventions that Sierra Leone, for instance,
:06:08. > :06:16.or Kosovo. It's worth remembering that polls
:06:17. > :06:18.showed public support for Tony Blair in 2003,
:06:19. > :06:20.and although the usual suspects are talking
:06:21. > :06:24.about this as an illegal war, the Chilcot Inquiry does not
:06:25. > :06:34.come to that conclusion. In any case, whatever your views
:06:35. > :06:37.on Iraq, why should the Russians and the Chinese have the ability
:06:38. > :06:39.to veto UK decision-making Russia and countries
:06:40. > :06:49.in the Middle East won't shy away Do we really want to clear the stage
:06:50. > :06:55.and allow them to set the agenda? In all the recriminations
:06:56. > :06:57.and rightful regret over Iraq, it is worth remembering that
:06:58. > :07:00.Britain isn't the worst war It is an outrage that people
:07:01. > :07:10.who have been apologists for the worst regimes in the world
:07:11. > :07:13.are currently trying to portray Yes, I'm thinking of Jeremy Corbyn
:07:14. > :07:19.and his cronies, and their And just when we need a strong
:07:20. > :07:31.Labour Party, the result The Corbynistas need to go,
:07:32. > :07:35.but Chilcot has just pulled out everything from under the Blairite
:07:36. > :07:42.wing of the party. Instead of endlessly rowing
:07:43. > :07:44.about 2003, we need to decide what we're going to learn from it,
:07:45. > :07:49.and also to realise what a disaster it is that our foreign policy,
:07:50. > :07:53.as well as our politics as a whole, And from Bunker 51 paintball
:07:54. > :08:09.in Greenwich to our own little underground shelter on This Week,
:08:10. > :08:23.Douglas Murray joins us now. Michael, was the Chilcot report
:08:24. > :08:28.worth waiting for? I don't think it told us anything we did not know 13
:08:29. > :08:32.years ago, certainly nine years ago when it was set up. It is welcome
:08:33. > :08:37.that it does not pull its punches but I think everything was on the
:08:38. > :08:43.table along time ago. Was it more robust, even more damning you
:08:44. > :08:50.expected? I was pleased it was not a whitewash. It was a serious piece of
:08:51. > :08:59.work. His language was very British but very clear and incisive. And
:09:00. > :09:04.clearly, it's a very, very sad week for British foreign policy. Is at
:09:05. > :09:09.the final nail in Tony Blair's reputation? History will judge Tony
:09:10. > :09:15.Blair on a whole raft of things, but clearly, the chaos that is Iraq now,
:09:16. > :09:18.on any analysis, the lack of planning and the sectarian violence
:09:19. > :09:23.that we have in that country and in the region, as a consequence, must
:09:24. > :09:29.mean that it was a catastrophe, in that sense. It gives no comfort,
:09:30. > :09:35.Douglas, to those who think he is a war criminal. No, those people are
:09:36. > :09:38.trying to do as much as they can with what they have got but I think
:09:39. > :09:44.they will be disappointed in that regard. The people who want Tony
:09:45. > :09:48.Blair to be tried, they will keep going. One of the saddest things
:09:49. > :09:51.about the press conference that he did was that one could not help
:09:52. > :09:55.thinking this was a man who knew he was going to have at least civil
:09:56. > :09:59.actions and others coming against improbably for the rest of his life.
:10:00. > :10:03.George Galloway on the Daily Politics today said he thought the
:10:04. > :10:07.war criminal route could not be pursued now but they were going to
:10:08. > :10:13.pursue misconduct in public office, also a criminal offence. Could that
:10:14. > :10:18.be a runner? It could be. All of these things will be tried. As it
:10:19. > :10:23.was with Henry Kissinger and others, there will be endless attempts. I
:10:24. > :10:26.think Tony Blair knows that. It is said that Iraq will make it much
:10:27. > :10:30.harder to mount military intervention, but since then we have
:10:31. > :10:35.intervened in Libya and our planes are over the skies of Iraq and
:10:36. > :10:42.Syria. Doing very, very limited operations in the latter case you
:10:43. > :10:46.give. Maybe that's right. It might be right, it might be a consequence.
:10:47. > :10:49.As a country, we have to think seriously about whether it is
:10:50. > :10:54.appropriate that somebody in Tony Blair's position, or David Cameron's
:10:55. > :10:58.position, should have hanging over them in perpetuity the idea of
:10:59. > :11:03.endless legal cases against them. I dislike it when that happens to
:11:04. > :11:07.members of the Armed Forces, and I think it basically makes our
:11:08. > :11:11.politics and foreign policy pretty inoperable. Of course, you stay
:11:12. > :11:14.within the bounds of the law. The bounds of the law on many of these
:11:15. > :11:22.things are clear. But the idea that any British Prime Minister could
:11:23. > :11:26.constantly fear every branch of international law, is something that
:11:27. > :11:30.will simply mean that politicians who believe in the status quo and
:11:31. > :11:35.never doing anything are the only politicians we will ever get. Iraq
:11:36. > :11:42.clearly changes the mood for intervention but does not rule it
:11:43. > :11:46.out entirely. We have been -- intervened since Iraq. I think it
:11:47. > :11:49.changes are very much on both sides of the Atlantic. One of the legacies
:11:50. > :11:54.from David Cameron is the idea that we now need a parliamentary vote
:11:55. > :11:57.before we take military action, which, I'm afraid, people listening
:11:58. > :12:03.will think I am being undemocratic, but I think that is inoperable. If
:12:04. > :12:06.all of our potential enemies believe a Prime Minister has to toil day and
:12:07. > :12:10.night to put together a coalition in the House of Commons to support
:12:11. > :12:17.military action, we have no deterrent effect whatsoever. David.
:12:18. > :12:21.I have voted against all the literary action since Iraq. I felt
:12:22. > :12:26.so let down by an intelligence service that was not properly
:12:27. > :12:32.scrutinised at the time. And I think it is not that you cannot intervene.
:12:33. > :12:35.It is the terms. The second thing is, when you intervene you have to
:12:36. > :12:40.be prepared to be there for the long term. There is this sense that you
:12:41. > :12:47.can quickly drop a few bombs and leave. It takes money, lots of
:12:48. > :12:51.money. Look at what happened in Germany after the Second World War,
:12:52. > :12:56.a whole Marshall plan, therefore the long term. I don't see any of that
:12:57. > :13:00.in the international context. We were not prepared to commit, for the
:13:01. > :13:04.part of Iraq we were responsible for, the greater Basra area, we were
:13:05. > :13:09.not prepared to commit either the men or the material for it. And I
:13:10. > :13:11.think there is something shameful about getting involved in a
:13:12. > :13:16.situation we are not ready to see through. We have discovered recently
:13:17. > :13:19.that the government did not even plan for Brexit, so it is not
:13:20. > :13:24.surprising that the government had not planned for post operation in
:13:25. > :13:28.Iraq. I want to pick up on something David said about intelligence. I
:13:29. > :13:33.must correct you a bit on that. To pretend we were sent the let down by
:13:34. > :13:38.our intelligence services is in part to misunderstand what Chilcot says.
:13:39. > :13:43.Chilcot says, and we are still absorbing it, a long report, that
:13:44. > :13:46.there was clearly, people in your party at the time, like Jack Straw,
:13:47. > :13:51.were clearly reaching for intelligence to justify conclusions
:13:52. > :13:56.they wanted to come to. Intelligence is never a straightforward business.
:13:57. > :14:01.Nobody ever says, this is a slam dunk. It is always a process of
:14:02. > :14:04.adding up a set of things that are themselves half and quarter truths
:14:05. > :14:10.and trying to stick them together into a picture which may reflect
:14:11. > :14:14.reality. There is a clear sign from the Chilcot report that Jack Straw
:14:15. > :14:18.and others were going to the intelligence community to get
:14:19. > :14:21.information they wanted from them. I think it is quite wrong to blame the
:14:22. > :14:26.intelligence community for that failure. That was a political
:14:27. > :14:29.failure. But they did allow politicians to talk about the
:14:30. > :14:33.intelligence in ways that could not be justified by the intelligence
:14:34. > :14:39.they had given. The broader point is that if you look back in the lead
:14:40. > :14:44.up, the years up to Iraq, we were probably too keen to intervene as a
:14:45. > :14:47.British government into many areas. We started a big intervention in
:14:48. > :14:53.Afghanistan but had not finished in Iraq. It was probably the climax of
:14:54. > :14:57.that. There is or has the danger that the pendulum goes the other
:14:58. > :14:58.way, David, and we are now too reluctant to intervene when we
:14:59. > :15:08.should. We intervened in Sierra Leone and
:15:09. > :15:12.Bosnia, we were in Afghanistan and we were seriously stretched. Some of
:15:13. > :15:19.the complaints about weaponry and equipment are unforgivable. The
:15:20. > :15:26.pendulum has swung to a place where in the US and the UK it is fine to
:15:27. > :15:30.drop bombs from aerial bombardment and drones but you will not commit
:15:31. > :15:35.troops on the ground. There is a question about whether you do that
:15:36. > :15:44.if you need to intervene. There has to be a serious plan, you have to do
:15:45. > :15:50.it for a long time. We interviewed, or intervened, in Iraq, we occupied,
:15:51. > :15:57.it is a mess, and Libya is a mess, we did not intervene in Syria or
:15:58. > :16:04.occupy, it is a mess, so where is the lesson? The lesson is that you
:16:05. > :16:09.can only intervene if you have the resources, and I take up what David
:16:10. > :16:14.and Douglas have said, you need to be willing to intervene for the
:16:15. > :16:20.long-term. It is like imperialism. We used to go into places with a
:16:21. > :16:24.view to being there 20, 30, 40 years, people making their careers
:16:25. > :16:31.there. We have lost that mentality. It is an extraordinary revolt
:16:32. > :16:36.against our history. We do is to take a superior view, the Americans
:16:37. > :16:41.were anti imperialist because they did not understand what it meant,
:16:42. > :16:45.and we had a history of it, and we achieved some benign results along
:16:46. > :16:52.the way. What Iraq needed was a thorough commitment. Do we have any
:16:53. > :17:00.idea what Jeremy Corbyn's policy is? Theresa May's? No, and in both
:17:01. > :17:05.parties they are shying away from this. They regard foreign policy as
:17:06. > :17:11.being a quagmire which is best not to get involved in. The problem is
:17:12. > :17:21.that events make things happen, and Iraq happened because of 9/11.
:17:22. > :17:24.Washington decided they had the capability to go after another
:17:25. > :17:30.American enemy, and they decided it was Saddam Hussein. We don't know if
:17:31. > :17:33.a Paris like attack happened in London what our interventionist
:17:34. > :17:39.foreign policy would be, who is planning it, who would do something.
:17:40. > :17:44.It is not a coincidence that the most interventionist leader in
:17:45. > :17:51.Europe these days is from what I want. He has the lowest ratings of
:17:52. > :17:54.any French president in 50 years. There are a lot of reasons for that.
:17:55. > :18:00.So if you too have "an entrenched need to gossip, particularly
:18:01. > :18:03.when Blue Nun is taken, as it all too often seemed
:18:04. > :18:06.to be", then pour yourself another three fingers.
:18:07. > :18:09.Because waiting in the wings, comedian Omid Djalili is here
:18:10. > :18:14.to talk about his new Iraq War documentary We Are Many,
:18:15. > :18:20.And remember, we're still ignoring you all on the Twitter,
:18:21. > :18:29.and Gordon Brown's International Superhighway.
:18:30. > :18:31.Now, we take our duties of impartiality seriously
:18:32. > :18:38.What other programme would allow shirts like this on air?
:18:39. > :18:41.But it turns out we've been getting it all wrong!
:18:42. > :18:49.Yes, apparently, the BBC's been too impartial over its reporting of
:18:50. > :18:56.So now that we can say what we like, the first thing I'd like to point
:18:57. > :18:59.out is that there's absolutely nothing like the cool,
:19:00. > :19:04.refreshing taste of sweet sparkling German wine.
:19:05. > :19:07.Talking of fizz, we sent the Spectator's Isabel Hardman down
:19:08. > :19:10.to Wimbledon for her roundup of the week and a well-deserved
:19:11. > :19:26.Yes, definitely hard at work in the lobby.
:19:27. > :19:30.No, no-one has resigned yet, but I will keep you updated if
:19:31. > :19:49.Sometimes you just have to get out of the Westminster bubble.
:19:50. > :19:52.These days, politics is an awful lot like tennis.
:19:53. > :19:55.You never quite know who's going to turn up on court.
:19:56. > :19:58.Top seeds have crashed out, the bookies are scrabbling to find
:19:59. > :20:01.new odds, and on Monday it was the turn of wild card
:20:02. > :20:05.Nigel Farage to throw down his racket again.
:20:06. > :20:11.During the referendum campaign I said I want my country back.
:20:12. > :20:14.What I'm saying today is I want my life back,
:20:15. > :20:20.Farage's resignation did surprise many political pundits,
:20:21. > :20:23.mainly because he actually seems determined to stick to it,
:20:24. > :20:28.The Ukip star player may have been the first to drop out this week
:20:29. > :20:32.Over on Centre Court, the play was about
:20:33. > :20:41.Against the odds, Theresa May is now the number-one seed
:20:42. > :20:45.But as a Remainer, her road to the title is hardly a safe
:20:46. > :20:50.So she and her supporters have decided to take
:20:51. > :20:55.As part of the negotiation we will to look at this question
:20:56. > :20:59.of people who are here in the UK from the EU, and I want to ensure
:21:00. > :21:02.that we are able to not just guarantee the position for those
:21:03. > :21:05.people but guarantee the position for British citizens
:21:06. > :21:07.who are in other member states in other countries in
:21:08. > :21:11.But some, like the unseeded Andrea Leadsom, saw this
:21:12. > :21:19.I commit today to guaranteeing the rights of our EU friends
:21:20. > :21:25.who have already come here to live and work.
:21:26. > :21:27.It was a good return, but there are still questions
:21:28. > :21:31.And just how united are the Leave side anyway?
:21:32. > :21:34.The mixed doubles are fighting to be number-two seed and even get
:21:35. > :21:43.The result of round one was pretty much as expected,
:21:44. > :21:46.although it eliminated not just one but two contestants.
:21:47. > :21:53.I will be lending my wholehearted support to Theresa May.
:21:54. > :21:57.Rumours started to fly of dirty tricks.
:21:58. > :22:00.Perhaps some of Michael Gove's supporters were trying to convince
:22:01. > :22:03.those who backed Mrs May to lend him their support in order
:22:04. > :22:06.to get him onto the ballot and keep Andrea Leadsom,
:22:07. > :22:11.who might prove more popular with Conservative activists
:22:12. > :22:18.We scarcely had a breather before it was on to the semifinals.
:22:19. > :22:21.We always knew that Theresa May was going to make it all the way
:22:22. > :22:25.But who was she going to end up playing?
:22:26. > :22:34.Therefore, Michael Gove, having the lowest number of votes,
:22:35. > :22:42.Whoever the next Prime Minister of this country will be,
:22:43. > :22:46.it will be a female Prime Minister, and a female Prime Minister who has
:22:47. > :22:49.formidable skills, and I know whichever one of the two wins,
:22:50. > :22:54.Politics was on the verge of returning to business as usual,
:22:55. > :22:58.but on Wednesday that long-awaited Chilcot report was published,
:22:59. > :23:01.to remind us, if the referendum hadn't already, that politics
:23:02. > :23:05.Sir John was deeply critical of the case that had been
:23:06. > :23:15.We have concluded that the UK chose to join the invasion of Iraq before
:23:16. > :23:19.the peaceful options for disarmament had been exhausted.
:23:20. > :23:25.Military action at that time was not a last resort.
:23:26. > :23:28.The debate in the Commons seemed measured, muted even.
:23:29. > :23:31.MPs did not really want to shout all round, but instead talked
:23:32. > :23:34.about the lessons governments needed to learn to stop something
:23:35. > :23:38.But for many, especially the families, there was only one
:23:39. > :23:49.I express more sorrow, regret and apology then you may ever
:23:50. > :23:55.There were no lies, there was no deceit,
:23:56. > :23:58.there was no deception, but there was a decision.
:23:59. > :24:04.A decision to remove Saddam and a decision to be with America.
:24:05. > :24:09.Tony Blair seems genuinely tormented by the aftermath of the Iraq War.
:24:10. > :24:12.In hoarse tones, at his two-hour press conference after the report
:24:13. > :24:15.was published, he pleaded with those listening to believe
:24:16. > :24:19.It's almost as though Sir John's criticisms
:24:20. > :24:22.of Tony Blair's Government, or his failure to stand up
:24:23. > :24:26.to George Bush on important points, was less important than that people
:24:27. > :24:31.believe the former Prime Minister had acted in good faith.
:24:32. > :24:35.Jeremy Corbyn later apologised for Labour's role in the Iraq War.
:24:36. > :24:37.He went much further in a speech outside of Parliament
:24:38. > :24:41.and in his response to David Cameron in the Commons.
:24:42. > :24:44.So I now apologise sincerely on behalf of my party
:24:45. > :24:48.for the disastrous decision to go to war in Iraq.
:24:49. > :24:50.The apology is owed first to all the people of Iraq,
:24:51. > :24:54.hundreds of thousands of lives lost, and the country is still living
:24:55. > :25:03.with the devastating consequences of war and the forces it unleashed.
:25:04. > :25:05.At the end of the week, where does this leave
:25:06. > :25:07.Well, Jeremy Corbyn is definitely still hanging
:25:08. > :25:13.Well, some of them are getting rather nervous, but others
:25:14. > :25:15.are arguing, "We just need to hold firm until Corbyn crumbles."
:25:16. > :25:23.But currently, no play is scheduled for this court.
:25:24. > :25:26.So perhaps after this week, politics will settle down a bit.
:25:27. > :25:29.What this country needs is something to cheer it up,
:25:30. > :25:58.Theresa May against Andrea Leadsom, is that a choice of which the Tories
:25:59. > :26:02.can be proud? Andrea Leadsom is so untested, it would be a tremendous
:26:03. > :26:08.risk, especially in the present circumstances. I voted for Brexit,
:26:09. > :26:13.but I don't hold back from saying that we are in a perilous situation.
:26:14. > :26:17.I would want to see the person of the greatest possible experience,
:26:18. > :26:22.who had been tested and most exposed over a long period of time in that
:26:23. > :26:28.role. The election when it goes to the grassroots will be between
:26:29. > :26:32.Tories who take Michael's view, somebody with experience, Theresa
:26:33. > :26:39.May, but on the other hand most voters voted for Brexit, they will
:26:40. > :26:45.want somebody who was a Leaver. Absolutely. It will be fascinating
:26:46. > :26:52.and nail-biting, because it is about who is the next Prime Minister, a
:26:53. > :26:57.serious job interview. Ken Clarke did Theresa May a huge service this
:26:58. > :27:02.week, being overheard describing her as a difficult woman is bubbly
:27:03. > :27:09.boosting her chances massively, comparing her to Margaret Thatcher,
:27:10. > :27:13.and saying out she is very good, pointing out she is the only grown
:27:14. > :27:18.up in the room, and we have a massive national crisis now, how do
:27:19. > :27:22.we deal with Brexit, who do we appoint as negotiators, to have a
:27:23. > :27:31.colleague point out that you are capable and difficult is a huge
:27:32. > :27:34.boost. The danger, was it not a major mistake to imply that EU
:27:35. > :27:44.citizens already in this country could be a bargaining chip, when
:27:45. > :27:47.even the most rabid of Leavers said, no, of course everybody who is
:27:48. > :27:51.already here can stay? Within 24 hours Theresa May made to U-turns,
:27:52. > :27:59.she rephrased tobogganing counterpoint, and she reneges on the
:28:00. > :28:01.position taken previously about withdrawing from the European Court
:28:02. > :28:07.of Human Rights. She had a pretty difficult period, and Andrea Leadsom
:28:08. > :28:12.has had a difficult period in the debate about her CV. Just at the
:28:13. > :28:18.moment neither one is looking especially shiny. It is causing a
:28:19. > :28:27.lot of concern among EU citizens in this country. That is not fair.
:28:28. > :28:30.Everybody involved in this said that whoever is he stays, even if the
:28:31. > :28:35.Europeans are nasty to us, and identical they will be, but we look
:28:36. > :28:42.after the people who are already here. If she wanted to make it about
:28:43. > :28:47.that, she could not get it through the Commons. It is extraordinarily
:28:48. > :28:52.unlikely he would enter into a decision's situation that was
:28:53. > :28:58.retrospective. That is not how you behave. People have been worried
:28:59. > :29:02.enough to leave. The problem is creating a climate. People get up
:29:03. > :29:11.and think it is not safe anymore and leave. The insecurity for expat
:29:12. > :29:16.Brits abroad and for domestic... It is awful, not knowing your future.
:29:17. > :29:24.No planning and plans being made... We are all agreed. That all Molly is
:29:25. > :29:32.from France, she is from Romania, they are worried now.
:29:33. > :29:41.Have we seen the last of Nigel Farage? I doubt it. I am sure he
:29:42. > :29:47.will be back in some form. Let me say a word about him. Because of the
:29:48. > :29:52.catastrophic blunder committed by David Cameron, Nigel Farage deserves
:29:53. > :29:59.a place in history. He was the man who spooked the Prime Minister. He
:30:00. > :30:02.had a party with zero seats, now one seat, and he spooked the Prime
:30:03. > :30:06.Minister into holding a referendum which the Prime Minister lost. He is
:30:07. > :30:11.responsible for this country leaving the European Union. You are right,
:30:12. > :30:22.but we should not celebrate it. A few years ago, Nigel Farage was the
:30:23. > :30:31.complete bogeyman of British politics. We have now had a week of
:30:32. > :30:39.the most awful xenophobic racism, terrible hate crimes, and I have to
:30:40. > :30:43.say there is a great danger... Where is the evidence of this? The police
:30:44. > :30:49.have been very careful to say there has been an increase in the
:30:50. > :30:51.reporting of these crimes. On the streets of London I have seen and
:30:52. > :30:57.heard things I have never seen and heard before. The danger is when
:30:58. > :31:01.mainstream politicians line up with the hard right, this is what
:31:02. > :31:07.happens. I hope we have seen the back of him. He has been a pollutant
:31:08. > :31:11.to our politics. Ukip might now be a bigger threat to you in the north
:31:12. > :31:17.than it is to the Tories in the South. Why would people keep on
:31:18. > :31:20.voting Ukip? The motivation of people in the North feeling
:31:21. > :31:24.abandoned by the other parties is strong. And they have lost the habit
:31:25. > :31:30.of voting Labour. I think Ukip could clean up in some of those Labour
:31:31. > :31:33.seats. We should not overdo it. We had a general election not long ago
:31:34. > :31:39.and everybody said they would clean up. They did not. They never clean
:31:40. > :31:44.up in general elections. Never. They might do if your party does not get
:31:45. > :31:49.its act together. Over 80% of the PLP have no confidence in Jeremy
:31:50. > :31:55.Corbyn but they have yet to mount a leadership challenge. It is a farce.
:31:56. > :31:59.It is, I am afraid. It is an internet sign war that we should not
:32:00. > :32:05.be having at a time when we should be focusing on the major debate,
:32:06. > :32:11.which is Europe. Certainly, this has dragged on now for... That is just
:32:12. > :32:15.sloganising. The Labour Party cannot get rid of its leader when you have
:32:16. > :32:18.the present electoral system. And you can't get rid of the electoral
:32:19. > :32:23.system unless the Labour Party splits and the moderate form a new
:32:24. > :32:29.party. I am deeply worried that we actually have three parties. We have
:32:30. > :32:33.a northern party that would like to be far harder line on immigration, a
:32:34. > :32:39.London Liberal left party, led by Jeremy, and a centre party, maybe
:32:40. > :32:44.Chuka Umunna is the leader, that could probably join with the Tories.
:32:45. > :32:48.Which one are you in? I am not joining any tribes. That is why I
:32:49. > :32:55.have focused on the main thing, Brexit. You want us to rerun the
:32:56. > :32:59.referendum because you did not get your results. I have simply pointed
:33:00. > :33:08.out that round about 37% of the country voted for this. The economy
:33:09. > :33:12.is going south. 52% voted to come out. On the 70% turnout, if you
:33:13. > :33:18.combine those that stayed at home and those that voted to stay, it is
:33:19. > :33:23.about that is percent. If you go along with that argument, Ukip will
:33:24. > :33:29.sweep you in the north. They will wipe you out if you count like that.
:33:30. > :33:33.There is a reason why, when making becomes the Jewish law change, you
:33:34. > :33:38.have a two thirds majority. Why did you not do that. The? This was not
:33:39. > :33:46.my referendum, it was David Cameron's. When Scotland voted for
:33:47. > :33:50.its own parliament it did not have a two thirds majority. Cameron
:33:51. > :33:56.introduced this referendum. We had a referendum on Europe. The irony is
:33:57. > :33:59.that those who want Brexit once sovereignty back, but why do we
:34:00. > :34:04.believe in a sovereign parliament? Good luck on that. Nigel Farage
:34:05. > :34:08.could well come back if Labour take that line. We have run out of time,
:34:09. > :34:14.Miranda. Oui sad. Nice to see you. Now, it's no secret that most
:34:15. > :34:17.of our BBC colleagues would like to see the back of us,
:34:18. > :34:20.to be replaced with something far They claim my appeal is far too
:34:21. > :34:23.narrow, that David Lammy isn't up to the job,
:34:24. > :34:26.and that Michael Portillo's dress And whilst they may have a point
:34:27. > :34:30.about Michael, we don't rely on the approval of Dimbleby,
:34:31. > :34:33.Humphries and Marr for our leadership position in BBC current
:34:34. > :34:35.affairs, because our mandate comes And you can't argue with last
:34:36. > :34:39.week's record 1.3 million And that's why we're putting "people
:34:40. > :34:48.power" in this week's Spotlight. If there are 500,000 on that march,
:34:49. > :34:51.that is still less than the number of deaths Saddam has
:34:52. > :34:56.been responsible for. Marching in their millions,
:34:57. > :35:01.they failed to stop But did these protesters still send
:35:02. > :35:07.a signal that politics was entering a new era when ordinary folks
:35:08. > :35:13.demanded their voices to be heard? That's a question asked
:35:14. > :35:16.by documentary We Are Many, exec produced by
:35:17. > :35:20.comedian Omid Djalili. It claims the global anti-war
:35:21. > :35:23.protest mobilised millions and forced people power
:35:24. > :35:27.to be taken seriously. If you keep coming back, at some
:35:28. > :35:33.point you will make the change. Much easier these days,
:35:34. > :35:36.thanks, of course, to the Twitter Only nine months ago I was very
:35:37. > :35:41.honoured to be elected leader I am carrying on with
:35:42. > :35:48.that responsibility. People power can certainly
:35:49. > :35:50.influence Labour politics. Jeremy Corbyn insists the support
:35:51. > :35:53.of party members gives him the mandate to remain as leader,
:35:54. > :35:56.even if his parliamentary colleagues A giant democratic experiment
:35:57. > :36:06.in which over 17 million Brits decided we should
:36:07. > :36:11.leave the European Union. It seems you can't ignore
:36:12. > :36:14.the will of the people. So are politicians finally starting
:36:15. > :36:31.to learn that? Olic Lily joins us. Most people know
:36:32. > :36:51.you as a comedian. -- on the Ed Joe Lily. Omid Djalili. I came across a
:36:52. > :36:56.kick-start on Twitter and it was an old school friend who was a
:36:57. > :36:59.director. I got on board and we have been on this amazing journey for the
:37:00. > :37:04.last five years putting this film together and promoting it, and it
:37:05. > :37:08.has been a tremendous eye-opener. I love the way you are talking about
:37:09. > :37:12.people power, trying to crowbar things like Brexit into it. That is
:37:13. > :37:20.just a split, not people power. That is just 52% versus 48%. You are also
:37:21. > :37:23.trying to bring in Jeremy Corbyn, and that narrative is basically
:37:24. > :37:29.people saying he has to leave, and the silent majority not protesting
:37:30. > :37:33.to keep him in. So when people march on the streets it is people power,
:37:34. > :37:41.but when they vote at the ballot box, that is not people power? I
:37:42. > :37:44.thought our film was about people power, but that particular
:37:45. > :37:48.demonstration, a global demonstration... It is interesting,
:37:49. > :37:53.we had John Prescott who saw the movie. I had done a TV commercial
:37:54. > :38:00.with him so we were friendly. He said, I have seen the film. He said,
:38:01. > :38:03.bearing in mind we were in the Cabinet deciding on these things and
:38:04. > :38:09.we knew there was a demonstration of a million people but we had no idea
:38:10. > :38:12.of the scale. 800 cities globally, 30 million people. He said, things
:38:13. > :38:17.might have been different. But even that did not stop the war. So our
:38:18. > :38:20.film is talking about this whole paradigms, where we have to look at
:38:21. > :38:26.the relationship between the individual, community, which is
:38:27. > :38:30.humanity, and institutions. If 30 million people protest now against
:38:31. > :38:36.something and they are ignored, basically we are ignoring the second
:38:37. > :38:39.superpower, global public opinion. I am completely mystified by this. 1
:38:40. > :38:44.million people marched in Britain, if that is what it was. It was a
:38:45. > :38:47.small minority of the British people. At the time, opinion polls
:38:48. > :38:51.showed the British people were in favour of the Iraq war. At the
:38:52. > :38:57.subsequent election, Tony Blair was returned with a handsome majority.
:38:58. > :39:01.What is your point? 1.5 million people is not an expression of
:39:02. > :39:06.people power, but a demonstration by a very small minority. It is a large
:39:07. > :39:11.demonstration. It was a minority that failed because they had no
:39:12. > :39:15.plan. Like we were saying with Brexit, we voted for it but there is
:39:16. > :39:23.no plan. Why should a minority succeed? I am not saying they should
:39:24. > :39:27.succeed. You say it failed, but why should it succeed? It failed because
:39:28. > :39:33.the war took place. I call that failure, don't you? The point of the
:39:34. > :39:38.film is to show the legacy of that, because it inspired the Arab Spring.
:39:39. > :39:44.For many people, they were proved right. At the end of the day, yes.
:39:45. > :39:49.Those who marched were not normal lefties and students but Middle
:39:50. > :39:54.England, Middle Scotland, Middle Wales, the general populace saying,
:39:55. > :39:57.we don't want to see war. When you say they marched, that is an
:39:58. > :40:01.exaggeration. It was a warm afternoon and people took a stroll
:40:02. > :40:06.in the park. They did not make any self-sacrifice, did not do anything
:40:07. > :40:09.that demanded great effort, did not put themselves in peril or danger,
:40:10. > :40:14.they did not lie down in front of tanks. They took a stroll in the
:40:15. > :40:21.park on Sunday afternoon. For many people it was more than that. Let me
:40:22. > :40:26.bring in David. Given that many conclude that the march was
:40:27. > :40:32.vindicated, they were right and the government was wrong, even so, is
:40:33. > :40:37.the number of people marching the right way to determine policy?
:40:38. > :40:39.Because I could show you pictures of massive crowds outside Buckingham
:40:40. > :40:44.Palace when Chamberlain came back from Munich with peace in our time,
:40:45. > :40:52.and everybody was in favour of it on the streets. That turned out not to
:40:53. > :40:57.be right. I remember my friends marching and saying, we marched and
:40:58. > :41:01.no one listened. I took them back to civil rights and reminded them that
:41:02. > :41:06.the listening does not necessarily come instantaneously. And it is the
:41:07. > :41:11.case that this week largely those that were marching against the Iraq
:41:12. > :41:16.war have been vindicated. I might say also on Saturday there were
:41:17. > :41:22.50,000 people marching because of wrecks it, and communicating their
:41:23. > :41:29.deep concern. How many of them do you think had voted? I wish many of
:41:30. > :41:34.them have marched before. Many of them had never been on a march
:41:35. > :41:43.before, were not terribly political, just deeply concerned. Where does
:41:44. > :41:46.this go, from the lesson of 2003? I understand what Michael Portillo was
:41:47. > :41:50.saying, that they did not achieve anything, but there is a voice of
:41:51. > :41:57.people... White macro it laid down a marker. At the end of the day, we
:41:58. > :42:00.look at the Chilcot report and that says we need to take greater care
:42:01. > :42:06.with war. That is the biggest oxymoron, a caring war. People were
:42:07. > :42:10.saying, we do not want war. There was a tremendous outpouring of
:42:11. > :42:14.empathy. We knew the people of Iraq would suffer. People were saying, we
:42:15. > :42:19.do not want people suffering, killed. The human body is one. When
:42:20. > :42:24.you stub your toe, the furthest apart from your brain, you want the
:42:25. > :42:27.pain to go away. Those demonstrations were saying, we will
:42:28. > :42:33.starve our toe, and then the whole of the body was affected. Now we are
:42:34. > :42:39.in a much worse situation. You have done this documentary and you are
:42:40. > :42:42.still on tour. After being really serious, I am going back to the
:42:43. > :42:47.Edinburgh Festival and a massive tour. Good to see you, and good luck
:42:48. > :42:50.with the documentary. Thank you. That's your lot for tonight,
:42:51. > :42:53.folks, but not for us, because it's Deficit Reduction Night
:42:54. > :42:56.at Lou Lou's and we're off to dance on the grave of the Government's
:42:57. > :42:58.quietly-shelved key economic policy. But we leave you tonight
:42:59. > :43:01.with a ridiculous display of people power when this morning almost two
:43:02. > :43:03.dozen Andrea Leadsom ultras marched on Westminster,
:43:04. > :43:05.calling for the former Governor of the Bank of England to be
:43:06. > :43:08.made Prime Minister. According to the Met,
:43:09. > :43:10."organisers of public processions are required by law to notify police
:43:11. > :43:13.at least six days before the event occurs of the date, time,
:43:14. > :43:16.proposed route and name I'm not sure Andrea's
:43:17. > :43:21.law-breaking campaign manager, MP Tim Loughton, did any of this,
:43:22. > :43:24.so I'm sure Officer Dibble will be Nighty night, don't let Andrea's
:43:25. > :43:30.fantastic CV bite. # And the world can't
:43:31. > :43:44.erase his fantasies # All your dreams will
:43:45. > :44:07.come true right away # Our voices will ring
:44:08. > :44:14.forever as one...#