:00:40. > :00:46.Tonight on this Week, Dermot Myrna Hann charts Britain's perilous
:00:47. > :01:00.voyage to the forbidden planet known as Brexit. Well, I have been boldly
:01:01. > :01:05.going where no man has gone before. Space station Westminster, a
:01:06. > :01:08.fact-finding mission. I will be reporting back to the mothership. If
:01:09. > :01:13.you set down on this planet, I cannot be answerable for the safety
:01:14. > :01:19.of your ship or your crew. Meanwhile, as Rome burns, is the
:01:20. > :01:26.European project on its last legs? Hot lot lawyer -- hotshot lawyer and
:01:27. > :01:30.wife of Nick Clegg flies the flag for the EU. Britain may have turned
:01:31. > :01:34.its back on Europe that I don't think other countries will follow
:01:35. > :01:40.suit. It is better to be in Europe than outside looking in.
:01:41. > :01:48.And what planet has Peter Doherty been on for these past few years? I
:01:49. > :02:00.know why I am here. You asked me to say why I am here. No, I don't know
:02:01. > :02:00.why I am here. This Week. The most provocative and unusual adventure
:02:01. > :02:10.film you have ever seen. Not. And we begin with the heartwarming
:02:11. > :02:16.news that, thanks to its current Brexit appeal in the Supreme Court,
:02:17. > :02:19.the government has, at a stroke, reduced unemployment among
:02:20. > :02:26.lawyers to precisely zero. Indeed, there's now a national
:02:27. > :02:32.shortage, with a score and more of barristers involved
:02:33. > :02:34.in the proceedings, plus all their solicitors, juniors,
:02:35. > :02:37.paralegals and legally trained bag carriers crammed
:02:38. > :02:41.into overspill rooms. Yes, the government's appeal
:02:42. > :02:44.against giving parliament a pivotal role in the Brexit process has
:02:45. > :02:47.turned out to be a veritable dripping roast for the legal
:02:48. > :02:49.profession, which means there'll be much toasting with vintage wines
:02:50. > :02:55.in Tuscan villas this Christmas. The lawyers inside the court have
:02:56. > :02:57.outnumbered the protestors outside by about ten to one,
:02:58. > :03:01.and even the demonstrators turned up dressed as lawyers,
:03:02. > :03:04.no doubt hoping to trouser a few quid in the general spraying
:03:05. > :03:08.around of legal fees. Much of which, dear taxpayer,
:03:09. > :03:11.you are paying for. So you may wonder why the Government
:03:12. > :03:14.is going to all your expense when, as this week demonstrated,
:03:15. > :03:17.it clearly has majority in the Commons for legislation
:03:18. > :03:21.to trigger the Brexit process, which rather makes the Supreme
:03:22. > :03:26.Court shenanegins moot. But don't forget that the Government
:03:27. > :03:29.and the Commons are also awash with lawyers and the legal
:03:30. > :03:32.profession knows how After all, they've known each other
:03:33. > :03:39.since public school and Oxbridge. So think of it as just jobs
:03:40. > :03:42.for the boys and it is, Speaking of those likely
:03:43. > :03:49.to remain under-employed even in a booming economy,
:03:50. > :03:51.I'm joined on the sofa tonight by two people who deserve to be
:03:52. > :03:55.in the dock of public opinion. Think of them as the Rumpole
:03:56. > :03:58.and Rumpolette of late night TV. I speak, of course, of Liz
:03:59. > :04:16.#fourpercent Kendall Your moment of the week? The vote in
:04:17. > :04:20.the Commons on Wednesday on Brexit. It was moving for me because I was
:04:21. > :04:24.battling away inside the cabinet to make sure we did not join the euro,
:04:25. > :04:29.and against the showing an agreement, always in a minority,
:04:30. > :04:36.described as a bustard by the Prime Minister at the time. And then I
:04:37. > :04:41.lived to see David Cameron, backed by William Hague, Kenneth Clarke and
:04:42. > :04:46.Michael Heseltine and Theresa May. And at last I see the House of
:04:47. > :04:52.Commons voting for, guess what, Brexit, by a huge majority. So it
:04:53. > :05:00.was really a moving moment for me. Were you emotional? I was. I am.
:05:01. > :05:03.Your moment? Number Ten is saying the Foreign Secretary's views on
:05:04. > :05:11.Saudi Arabia are not Government policy. Why would you expect that?
:05:12. > :05:15.It was not just a slap down, but a knee capping. The problem is not
:05:16. > :05:20.just that no one can believe that what the Foreign Secretary says is
:05:21. > :05:23.the Government's position, the real risk is about Theresa May's judgment
:05:24. > :05:25.in appointing him in the first place. We will come back to that
:05:26. > :05:26.later. The European Union and its
:05:27. > :05:28.forerunners were meant to bring Europeans together
:05:29. > :05:30.in peace and prosperity. When Britain voted to remain
:05:31. > :05:35.in the Common Market in 1975, Europe was growing fast,
:05:36. > :05:36.forward-looking and enjoying But in recent years the Eurozone
:05:37. > :05:40.in particular has become synonymous with sclerosis,
:05:41. > :05:42.mass unemployment, poverty in Greece, growing resentment
:05:43. > :05:44.against Germany and a real struggle to keep the show on the road,
:05:45. > :05:48.which might explain why we didn't So is Brexit the beginning
:05:49. > :05:56.of the end for the EU or just a case of eurosceptic
:05:57. > :05:58.British exceptionalism. Here's Miriam Gonzalez Durantez
:05:59. > :06:21.with her take of the week. The EU was founded
:06:22. > :06:23.after World War II. The common wisdom was that it would
:06:24. > :06:26.bring lasting peace and prosperity. Now, some claim that we are at
:06:27. > :06:29.a crucial point in EU history and that its very
:06:30. > :06:32.existence is threatened. The EU may need reform,
:06:33. > :06:38.but so do most countries The EU is one of the strongest
:06:39. > :06:48.economic areas in the world. With more than 440
:06:49. > :06:51.million consumers, it is also one of the biggest
:06:52. > :06:55.integrated markets. It has maintained prosperity
:06:56. > :06:57.while maintaining also a commitment to democracy,
:06:58. > :07:09.human rights and the rule of law. The economic crisis of 2008
:07:10. > :07:10.is still unresolved, And when compared with countries
:07:11. > :07:17.that have used monetary policy at will, things actually do not
:07:18. > :07:21.look so bad. Growth in the UK is roughly in line
:07:22. > :07:24.with the average in the EU, and public debt in the UK
:07:25. > :07:27.is actually higher than in nine From Russia to the Middle East,
:07:28. > :07:37.the EU faces many security threats, but as Baltic countries understand
:07:38. > :07:40.well, it is easier to confront those threats when you have safety
:07:41. > :07:43.in numbers under the EU Italy faces political turmoil,
:07:44. > :08:04.but with 65 governments in the last 75 years,
:08:05. > :08:08.they have experience in dealing with political uncertainty
:08:09. > :08:15.without rocking the boat. In Austria, people have chosen
:08:16. > :08:17.the continuity of the EU over And in France, Le Pen
:08:18. > :08:21.is struggling to get funding Except for Greece, none
:08:22. > :08:28.of the European populists have And unlike in the UK,
:08:29. > :08:33.they are not backed by anti-European vested interests, media
:08:34. > :08:43.owners and millionaires. So far, only Britain has
:08:44. > :08:46.closed the door on the EU. Some think other countries
:08:47. > :08:48.will follow suit. Our thanks to Bishopsgate Institute
:08:49. > :08:57.for allowing us to film in their beautiful library
:08:58. > :09:14.in the heart of the city of London. Miriam joins us now. Welcome to the
:09:15. > :09:19.programme. Is she right that the EU is not finished? I don't know. I
:09:20. > :09:22.think the euro is the key. I fear that whether the euro survives or
:09:23. > :09:27.collapses, either one is a catastrophe. If the euro is
:09:28. > :09:31.maintained, countries like Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal and Ireland
:09:32. > :09:34.will continue to suffer, particularly the young people. Youth
:09:35. > :09:38.unemployment has been the characteristic. It is an irony that
:09:39. > :09:43.young people are supposed to support the European Union. They are the
:09:44. > :09:46.ones devastated by the creation of the euro, and entirely unsuitable
:09:47. > :09:50.organisation because it has admitted countries that were not equipped to
:09:51. > :09:53.be in the euro. If they try to dismantle the euro by expelling
:09:54. > :09:56.Greece and other countries who should not be there, the feeling
:09:57. > :10:00.will be that the pack of cards is going to collapse. So either route
:10:01. > :10:05.that the European Union takes over the euro leads to disaster. Although
:10:06. > :10:10.Miriam was sanguine about the economy of the European Union, it is
:10:11. > :10:13.pretty much stuck in the doldrums. And most countries have seen long
:10:14. > :10:17.periods in which most of their people have seen no increase in
:10:18. > :10:21.living standards. That is one of the reasons why we see, you know, a
:10:22. > :10:31.strong reaction, particularly in the referendum in Italy. I think Miriam
:10:32. > :10:35.is right that Europe, the EU and the eurozone will continue. I think
:10:36. > :10:38.other countries, France and Germany, have always had a stronger mashed or
:10:39. > :10:44.interest in the first place to be in the EU, and so did the Eastern
:10:45. > :10:49.European countries that came in. But there is a real risk of complacency,
:10:50. > :10:53.and unless Europe reforms, particularly on the economy, to
:10:54. > :10:58.tackle unemployment, stagnating wages, and to make sure that growth
:10:59. > :11:03.is more widely shared, the risk is they will still be vulnerable to
:11:04. > :11:06.economic shocks, and the political risks of the rising populism,
:11:07. > :11:11.whether from the right or the left, despite the fact those populists do
:11:12. > :11:16.not have the answers to the long-term problems people face.
:11:17. > :11:21.Would you concede that for a growing number of Europeans the EU and the
:11:22. > :11:25.eurozone has been an increasing disappointment? I think the EU in
:11:26. > :11:32.general and in particular requires reform. There is a risk of
:11:33. > :11:36.complacency in the EU, there is a risk of complacency in this country.
:11:37. > :11:41.It is true there may be issues with Europe, and we have all seen, but it
:11:42. > :11:44.is also true that countries like mine, like Portugal, like Italy,
:11:45. > :11:48.they would not have done the economic reforms they have had to do
:11:49. > :11:52.if it had not been because of the pressure from Brussels. I have to
:11:53. > :11:55.say that when you speak about unemployment, it is easy to speak
:11:56. > :12:00.about unemployment, but it is comparing apples with oranges. The
:12:01. > :12:07.unemployment of the south of Europe translates into precarious
:12:08. > :12:10.employment here in the UK, simply because the Labour protection is
:12:11. > :12:16.much higher in continental Europe than here. So the figures on
:12:17. > :12:22.unemployment do not really compare. Finally, it seems to me that when
:12:23. > :12:27.you speak, Michael, about the position of youth in relation to the
:12:28. > :12:30.Italian referendum, the youth generally in Europe are
:12:31. > :12:33.pro-European. It is very symbolic who is ready pushing for the project
:12:34. > :12:38.is still the young people, as we saw here, by the way. And in Italy, you
:12:39. > :12:46.cannot really say that vote was against Europe. You had people
:12:47. > :12:51.against Renzi. It is not my case to argue today that the European Union
:12:52. > :12:54.is going to collapse. My case is to argue that the European Union has
:12:55. > :12:59.taken a very bad turn in establishing the euro, that it is
:13:00. > :13:03.impoverishing the population, that it is increasing immigration and
:13:04. > :13:08.emigration, both of which are at unsustainable levels. That it is one
:13:09. > :13:12.of the things that has set the British people against Europe. But I
:13:13. > :13:17.do agree that there is a fundamental difference between the British
:13:18. > :13:20.attitude... There is British exceptionalism. Between the British
:13:21. > :13:24.attitude and the attitude of other countries. Knowing Spain a bit, even
:13:25. > :13:29.having a Spanish passport, I would say there is no chance of Spain
:13:30. > :13:33.wanting to leave the European Union. They are wedded to the idea of
:13:34. > :13:37.belonging. After decades of isolation, they want to sit at the
:13:38. > :13:42.table alongside other countries. The countries of continental Europe lost
:13:43. > :13:48.their democracy and institutions during World War II, during the 50s
:13:49. > :13:52.and 60s, and the British didn't. I think our European partners long for
:13:53. > :13:56.European institutions that protect their democracy, whereas the British
:13:57. > :14:01.just don't feel the need for that. It is a different culture.
:14:02. > :14:09.You cited Italy as a European success story that didn't have the
:14:10. > :14:14.reforms. I didn't say it didn't do the reforms. The economy there isn't
:14:15. > :14:18.any bigger than it was when it joined the euro in 1999. Two lost
:14:19. > :14:24.decades, its industrial production is back where it was in 1984, its
:14:25. > :14:29.banks are bust, its youth are on the dole. How is Europe of the eurozone
:14:30. > :14:34.been good for Italy? They'll not do the reforms... They've... The
:14:35. > :14:38.Italian case is the typical case of a country that is coming late to the
:14:39. > :14:46.reforms. Look at the situation in Ireland and in my own country, why
:14:47. > :14:53.is, why is Spain up to 3% growth? Because they have done it. But how
:14:54. > :14:58.can it be good for Europe... The union... But how can it be good for
:14:59. > :15:02.Italy when the economy hasn't grown since 1994? It's not so different to
:15:03. > :15:06.the situation in other countries. The 2008 crisis has been huge and
:15:07. > :15:10.many other countries that have not been part of Europe are still
:15:11. > :15:14.struggling with growth. It's interesting that you put it, Michael
:15:15. > :15:18.asked Europe has taken the wrong turn maybe and it's going to
:15:19. > :15:22.impoverish Europe. If you talk to lots of people in the continent,
:15:23. > :15:31.that is what they say about the UK. They think the UK has taken the
:15:32. > :15:38.wrong turn and that that is going to impoverish. The eurozone goes from
:15:39. > :15:44.crisis to crisis. It's the slowest growing group in the world. Does it
:15:45. > :15:48.not make sense for Britain to diversify and have more growing
:15:49. > :15:53.trade in other parts of the world? The reason we struggle with trade in
:15:54. > :15:56.India or China is not because we are still part of the EU, although we
:15:57. > :15:59.are coming out, it's because of culture, the fact that those
:16:00. > :16:09.countries do not want to allow us access. We could address those now.
:16:10. > :16:16.We are coming out very microscopically slowly. Coming out
:16:17. > :16:20.isn't going to... That's not true. 15 years ago, about 60% of our trade
:16:21. > :16:26.was with the European Union. Today it's 44%. IPSO facto, the other part
:16:27. > :16:33.of the trade's gone to the rest of the world. If you look at the
:16:34. > :16:37.figures... I do. Even if we double the trade, with the US, the Canada,
:16:38. > :16:41.Australia and New Zealand and with India, even if we double it with all
:16:42. > :16:45.those countries, we'll still trade less than with the EU today. Those
:16:46. > :16:49.are the figures and in many cases that has nothing to do with the
:16:50. > :16:53.growing population. I don't know whether Brexit is going to be a
:16:54. > :17:00.success or failure, I really don't. Inwant a referendum, I would much
:17:01. > :17:04.rather we were back where we were. The very fact that you made that
:17:05. > :17:08.film this evening, although you said that the idea that Europe was
:17:09. > :17:13.collapsing was grossly exaggerated, you had to make the film this
:17:14. > :17:16.evening and there is a switch in focus going on at the moment. Since
:17:17. > :17:20.June 24th, people have been moaning about the terrible situation we are
:17:21. > :17:22.in and maybe we are in a difficult situation but I think the focus is
:17:23. > :17:28.shifting to the difficult situation in which the European Union is and
:17:29. > :17:32.it's, I think the Italian referendum has put the where are centre stage
:17:33. > :17:35.which is exactly where it should be. The next things that may happen are
:17:36. > :17:40.an Italian general election, an election in France and the situation
:17:41. > :17:45.may simply get worse. All right. What I would say is some European
:17:46. > :17:50.politicians do get the need for reform. Manuel Valz in particular.
:17:51. > :17:55.He's about to lose. But he understands. And he's about to lose.
:17:56. > :17:59.Well, he's making the case that Brexit isn't just a British problem,
:18:00. > :18:03.that the EU needs to reform because if it doesn't meet the needs of its
:18:04. > :18:07.people it could collapse. I think those voices have to be heard. We
:18:08. > :18:12.are in this difficult dilemma here where people want to make the case
:18:13. > :18:16.for the EU in the eurozone. But it has to reform. The question is
:18:17. > :18:24.whether Germany, Germany I think is key here, because so long as
:18:25. > :18:28.borrowing is seen as a sin, rather than investing jobs for growth...
:18:29. > :18:33.You have rather glossed over the record of the eurozone, saying its
:18:34. > :18:38.economic performance was "unresolved". The US economy today
:18:39. > :18:42.is 15% bigger than it was just before the crash. The British
:18:43. > :18:46.economy is 8% bigger than it was just before the crash. Let's look at
:18:47. > :18:51.this year. Let me finish the question. The eurozone's economy is
:18:52. > :18:54.no bigger than it was in all that time, eight years, it's no bigger
:18:55. > :18:59.now than it was before the crash. Where's the success? I'm not coming
:19:00. > :19:04.here to defend the Europe. I'm coming here to explain that the euro
:19:05. > :19:09.has been a political project that's obviously made some things difficult
:19:10. > :19:13.because there are lots of countries advancing at the same pace.
:19:14. > :19:16.Nevertheless it's had positive impacts in some countries like mine.
:19:17. > :19:20.However, coming back to something you mentioned earlier which is the
:19:21. > :19:24.populism and the anti-European feeling in the rest of the European
:19:25. > :19:29.countries, I think it's really important to see and perhaps more
:19:30. > :19:33.difficult to see it from here, the populist continental Europe is very
:19:34. > :19:38.different to the populism here. A lot of the populism in continental
:19:39. > :19:45.Europe is simply antiestablishment. The population here is driven by the
:19:46. > :19:50.elite. This is backed by the vested interest, by the media, by the
:19:51. > :19:57.elites, Etonians. Very different. We have ran out of time. You did make
:19:58. > :20:00.that point very well in the film. I would counsel viewers that sceptics
:20:01. > :20:04.always underestimate the desire of the European elite to keep the show
:20:05. > :20:06.on the road and so you may well be right. The British elite to destroy
:20:07. > :20:09.it. Now, it's late, party with Keith Vaz
:20:10. > :20:12.and Sally Bercow late. But be warned, if you party too
:20:13. > :20:16.hard, you may well end up waking up on a purple sofa wearing one of
:20:17. > :20:18.Michael's shirts, wondering how it But fear not, because Pete Doherty
:20:19. > :20:23.is waiting in the wings to set us straight, as he puts
:20:24. > :20:25.bust-ups in our Spotlight. So go on then, have a Snap, Crackle
:20:26. > :20:29.and Pop, come at us on Fightbook, we'll be happy to Tweet
:20:30. > :20:31.you down in one punch. Now, it's been a tricky week
:20:32. > :20:34.for Theresa May's Brexit of dreams, which is no longer hard, or soft,
:20:35. > :20:38.or clean, but red, white and blue. Anymore of this and I suspect
:20:39. > :20:43.the Prime Minister will be Some of us are already chasing cars
:20:44. > :20:52.on the street and we have no idea For those of you who have trouble
:20:53. > :20:56.sleeping, just put this week's These dulcet, posh, so superior
:20:57. > :21:01.legal eagle tones will soon have For those of you still awake, here's
:21:02. > :21:07.Dermot Murnaghan with his roundup Yeah, yeah, what have
:21:08. > :21:29.we got today... Hold on, Dermot,
:21:30. > :21:32.we're not quite there. The only show in town
:21:33. > :21:37.this week was Brexit. Sorry, one more time,
:21:38. > :21:40.one more time, police sirens. The only show in town this week
:21:41. > :21:47.was Brexit when the UK's presence on the world stage
:21:48. > :21:49.was up for discussion. Even though Prime Minister May
:21:50. > :21:52.was on international business in Bahrain,
:21:53. > :21:55.she still found time to tell us where Brexit
:21:56. > :21:58.was on the colour palate. Sometimes people look at this
:21:59. > :22:03.as somehow the UK taking one particular model,
:22:04. > :22:08.the UK trying to take some It's not about this sort of Brexit
:22:09. > :22:12.or that sort of Brexit, it's about a red, white and blue
:22:13. > :22:15.Brexit, that is the right Brexit, Access to the single market
:22:16. > :22:22.is of course a key issue, so it was no surprise that
:22:23. > :22:25.when the chief Brexiter David Davis and the Chancellor Philip Hammond
:22:26. > :22:29.joined forces to...do you mind... to suggest that the UK continuing
:22:30. > :22:33.to pay into the EU budget for access to the single market after Brexit
:22:34. > :22:36.that that ruffled a few feathers and the key Leave campaigner
:22:37. > :22:38.and Foreign Secretary, don't call me Boris any more
:22:39. > :22:40.Johnson, he wasn't keen What David has said
:22:41. > :22:48.is that is the kind of thing that could be considered,
:22:49. > :22:51.but we are not getting into a running commentary
:22:52. > :22:53.on our negotiations. I think I've given you a pretty
:22:54. > :22:55.fair four-point analysis Control of borders, control of laws,
:22:56. > :23:01.control of money, the ability That's within those ideas,
:23:02. > :23:07.those very simple ideas, is a wealth of information
:23:08. > :23:11.about the kind of deal that we want. Are you kidding me, it's right
:23:12. > :23:20.behind you, it's that. We got a real sense this week
:23:21. > :23:28.of how the UK are going Their chief negotiator
:23:29. > :23:34.Michel Barnier said the whole thing could be trashed out in about 18
:23:35. > :23:36.months from the triggering The announcement
:23:37. > :23:39.came with a warning. He also said the UK can't
:23:40. > :23:43.expect an easy ride. The single market
:23:44. > :23:48.and its four freedoms, Two significant moves forward
:23:49. > :23:58.in the House of Commons this week, as MPs discussed a Labour motion,
:23:59. > :24:01.agreed a Labour motion, that the Government should publish
:24:02. > :24:06.a plan on its Brexit strategy before The Government countered
:24:07. > :24:14.with an amendment also agreed on that the House would accept
:24:15. > :24:18.the triggering of Article 50 The Government would negotiate
:24:19. > :24:27.for two years without telling us any Are you, is anybody,
:24:28. > :24:32.are any members of this House content not to know,
:24:33. > :24:35.hands up who doesn't want to know - doesn't want to know -
:24:36. > :24:38.hands up, you don't want to know. I said several times in debates
:24:39. > :24:40.the honourable gentleman's attended, towards the SNP member,
:24:41. > :24:45.I will make as much information as possible available
:24:46. > :24:48.without prejudicing our negotiating Now, Brexit was in the dock
:24:49. > :24:58.this week and it's over there at the Supreme Court
:24:59. > :25:02.where we're not, perhaps that some of the finest legal brains
:25:03. > :25:06.in Britain were discussing the issue of whether MPs should be
:25:07. > :25:12.consulted before Theresa May My case, as you know,
:25:13. > :25:18.is that the 2015 Act in effect involved Parliament deciding to put
:25:19. > :25:21.to the final decision of the people the in-out question and we do
:25:22. > :25:25.respectfully submit therefore that whether it said things
:25:26. > :25:28.or didn't say things, whether it was silent or not,
:25:29. > :25:32.it still carries real I think we all now accept the forced
:25:33. > :25:40.Parliament by reason of sovereignty The idea that ministers could revoke
:25:41. > :25:47.this fundamental change to our constitutional order,
:25:48. > :25:51.in my submission, is In Brussels this week,
:25:52. > :25:57.Boris Johnson discussed NATO is more important
:25:58. > :26:03.now than ever before. We need to be very vigilant
:26:04. > :26:08.on our eastern frontier, but also of course NATO
:26:09. > :26:12.is there to project stability Of course, one of Britain's biggest
:26:13. > :26:18.allies in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia and a tape's emerged
:26:19. > :26:21.of the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, having
:26:22. > :26:26.a pop at them and Iran. The tragedy for me, and that's why
:26:27. > :26:30.you have all these proxy wars being fought the whole time in that
:26:31. > :26:34.area, is that there's not strong enough leadership
:26:35. > :26:38.in the countries themselves. You've got the Saudis, Iran,
:26:39. > :26:44.everybody moving in and puppeteering On the domestic front,
:26:45. > :27:05.the only person thinking more about trains this week
:27:06. > :27:07.than Michael Portillo was probably the Transport
:27:08. > :27:10.Secretary, Chris Grayling. Now, he pulled the communication
:27:11. > :27:13.cord on Network Rail, he said that a shake-up
:27:14. > :27:17.of the railways in England What needs to happen
:27:18. > :27:25.within Network Rail, it needs to become more
:27:26. > :27:27.of a collection of route-based businesses with local management
:27:28. > :27:30.focussing on what's best for their own line,
:27:31. > :27:33.their own passengers and commuters. Network Rail has not
:27:34. > :27:34.been focussed enough News dominated by Foreign
:27:35. > :27:39.Affairs and Brexit. The question is, at the end
:27:40. > :27:42.of the day, who will be over the moon and who will be sick
:27:43. > :27:45.as a parrot in this Hello and welcome to Portillo's Pub
:27:46. > :27:58.quiz, dedicated entirely With 195 nations to get
:27:59. > :28:03.through, pens at the ready. Question one, who is
:28:04. > :28:05.the Foreign Minister of France? Question two, who is
:28:06. > :28:16.the President of South Korea? Dermot Murnaghan, the quizmaster
:28:17. > :28:33.you don't want to meet down the pub Are we any clear on the Government's
:28:34. > :28:38.negotiating strategy for Brexit? No. We have seen a week in which the
:28:39. > :28:41.Government, for once, has been deft, converting a Labour motion which
:28:42. > :28:44.looked tricky and looked like ringing about a Conservative revolt
:28:45. > :28:49.into something of a substantial success. The Government is now
:28:50. > :28:53.committed to saying something about its negotiating position but I do
:28:54. > :28:58.see what it can say, other than that it wishes to have its cake and eat
:28:59. > :29:05.it, which the people we negotiate with will try to deny us. Could it
:29:06. > :29:10.not outline its strategic ends? It is going to have to tell the people
:29:11. > :29:13.it is negotiating with. As an example, we would like to be in the
:29:14. > :29:18.single market and we wish to control immigration. Extremely likely that
:29:19. > :29:23.those negotiating will try to deny us having those things. But that
:29:24. > :29:27.could be our position. I think probably what the Government wants
:29:28. > :29:35.to do is to set out a series of ambitions which Rob Lee will be
:29:36. > :29:41.denied to us, but which in each case Mac -- represent the maximum the
:29:42. > :29:46.Government might want to achieve. What did Labour achieve with its
:29:47. > :29:51.motion, other than to show that it was even more divided on Brexit than
:29:52. > :29:56.the Tories? I don't think that is true, actually. Credit to Keir
:29:57. > :30:00.Starmer factually getting a concession from the Government that
:30:01. > :30:04.there would be a plan. It's the first time that has happened.
:30:05. > :30:11.Secondly, I hope it has put to bed the idea that somehow MPs, who have
:30:12. > :30:16.a right and a duty to scrutinise the Government's plans, are somehow
:30:17. > :30:19.trying to block Brexit. I think many of the hardline Brexiteers are
:30:20. > :30:23.tilting at windmills there, and I think the house showed that we
:30:24. > :30:28.accept the will of the people but we want to scrutinise it. But we got no
:30:29. > :30:33.idea what the shape of the plan will be, what the mechanism will be, a
:30:34. > :30:38.white paper, a Green paper, the back of a five packet... You will
:30:39. > :30:44.remember me saying that I would like to see a White Paper on this. We
:30:45. > :30:49.still do not know whether the Supreme Court will say a motion is
:30:50. > :30:53.enough, or whether there has to be legislation. The plaintiff 's are
:30:54. > :30:58.arguing strongly that a motion carries no legal weight. Only
:30:59. > :31:04.something that can become an act of Parliament carries legal weight. One
:31:05. > :31:08.thing I would disagree with Michael about, it is very interesting that
:31:09. > :31:12.the person who seems to give away more than anybody about the
:31:13. > :31:15.Government's plans is David Davis, who has proven slightly more
:31:16. > :31:20.pragmatic, saying we might have to consider paying in to get access to
:31:21. > :31:22.the single market, that it would be inconceivable that after the
:31:23. > :31:27.negotiations Parliament would not have a vote. One thing we have not
:31:28. > :31:31.talked about is this transitional agreement, because we are not going
:31:32. > :31:40.to get this sorted into macro years, and people do not want a cliff edge.
:31:41. > :31:47.Article 50, you pack your bags and leave the house, is not the final
:31:48. > :31:53.divorce settlement. The people who matter are the people who run the
:31:54. > :32:00.big help. The heads of state. Why doesn't the Government put a short
:32:01. > :32:03.enabling Bill before the Commons? I think the Government will be
:32:04. > :32:08.reassured by what happened yesterday. Although you said Labour
:32:09. > :32:11.was divided, what struck me was how solidly the Labour Party voted for
:32:12. > :32:17.the motion which committed us to triggering article 50 by the end of
:32:18. > :32:20.March. Why so? Because even more than in the Conservative Party,
:32:21. > :32:25.Labour Party members are worried about voting against their
:32:26. > :32:29.constituents. Many Conservatives had huge majorities for Remain in their
:32:30. > :32:35.constituencies, but many Labour voters -- many Labour members had
:32:36. > :32:38.huge majorities for Leeds in their constituency. Any worries that the
:32:39. > :32:42.Government might have had about its one clause bill in the House of
:32:43. > :32:47.Commons, it need not worry now. If they get a big majority, they should
:32:48. > :32:54.not worry about the Lords even. I certainly feel that having voted to
:32:55. > :33:00.have the referendum, I have to accept that it is not just what my
:33:01. > :33:04.constituents have said. The one person, Kenneth Clarke, who has
:33:05. > :33:08.always been pro-Europe, he did not vote for the referendum Bill and he
:33:09. > :33:12.can honestly say, I'm going to vote against it and I don't accept it.
:33:13. > :33:19.Many more broke the Labour whip on that. What have you made of the
:33:20. > :33:23.Supreme Court proceedings? I think probably people will be quite
:33:24. > :33:25.impressed by the Supreme Court proceedings, in the sense that I
:33:26. > :33:28.think they are going through the arguments, trying to consider
:33:29. > :33:33.whether the Government has stepped beyond what is permitted and whether
:33:34. > :33:37.it is a role for Parliament. I was not particularly impressed by the
:33:38. > :33:41.clips we showed, in which the barristers did not look to
:33:42. > :33:44.articulate. But the process will be quite reassuring to people and
:33:45. > :33:48.seeing the proceedings televised is a good thing. If we are going to
:33:49. > :33:55.have a more powerful, American-style Supreme Court, shouldn't we also
:33:56. > :33:59.have an American style scrutiny of judicial appointments? I am not sure
:34:00. > :34:05.why you say we are going to have an American-style Supreme Court.
:34:06. > :34:08.Because it is getting involved in adjudicating on constitutional
:34:09. > :34:14.matters to a degree that the Law lords never did. I would be wary
:34:15. > :34:18.about changing to that kind of appointment system. What I take from
:34:19. > :34:24.the court proceedings is that I felt quite proud. We have an independent
:34:25. > :34:30.judiciary, considering an issue brought by citizens who are saying,
:34:31. > :34:36.our Minister choux are the decisions legal? Many countries would be
:34:37. > :34:38.jealous of that, so much of it was opaque, but I felt very proud. I am
:34:39. > :34:41.glad you are proud. Now to a new regular
:34:42. > :34:43.slot on This Week. And this week we're
:34:44. > :34:46.in the Lincolnshire constiuency of Sleaford and North Hykeham,
:34:47. > :35:07.and our Correspondent, Tim, what can you tell us? The
:35:08. > :35:13.Tories expected to win, but will it be Labour or Ukip coming second? How
:35:14. > :35:19.does it look? Yes, I don't think we will have another night of drama in
:35:20. > :35:24.this corner of Lincolnshire tonight. Sleaford and North Hykeham is not
:35:25. > :35:29.Richmond Park. This area delivered a 62% Leave vote in the referendum,
:35:30. > :35:34.and the Conservative candidate here, Doctor Caroline Johnson, a proper
:35:35. > :35:38.doctor, a consultant paediatrician, is a committed Brexiteer, so she
:35:39. > :35:43.says. The battle looks like it will be for second place. They became
:35:44. > :35:47.second in last year's General Election but Ukip are confident of
:35:48. > :35:52.overtaking Labour, coming second and heating into the Tory vote. But
:35:53. > :35:58.still some way behind the Conservatives. When will you get the
:35:59. > :36:02.result? It is a large rural constituency with lots of outlying
:36:03. > :36:06.polling stations, which is my way of saying it will be a long night. We
:36:07. > :36:13.reckon about 4am, sometime later than the result last week in
:36:14. > :36:18.Richmond Park. 37% turnout for this by-election, compared to 70% in the
:36:19. > :36:22.general election. Winter by-election is traditionally do not attract a
:36:23. > :36:26.large turnout. Most of those I spoke to on the street were more worried
:36:27. > :36:31.about Carol concerts and school Nativity is, rather than electing a
:36:32. > :36:36.new MP. Go and get some coffee, and good luck through the night. For
:36:37. > :36:39.those of you wondering why we are not doing that by-election result, I
:36:40. > :36:41.think you just got the answer. And some of us have to sleep now and
:36:42. > :36:42.then. Now, if you want a friend
:36:43. > :36:45.in Westminster, get a dog. But if you are a dog,
:36:46. > :36:48.do not under any circumstances get In politics, there's no more
:36:49. > :36:51.uplifting sight than one So it's been open season on Boris,
:36:52. > :36:56.as he goes from gaffe to gaffe. Just to heighten his discomfort,
:36:57. > :36:59.the Government has briefed that ministers should stop
:37:00. > :37:00.poking fun at Boris. For Her Majesty's Principal
:37:01. > :37:05.Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Alexander
:37:06. > :37:08.Boris de Pfeffel Johnson... So we're putting bust-ups
:37:09. > :37:19.in the Spotlight. Would the excellent acting
:37:20. > :37:25.Prime Minister tell the House how much the European Union should pay
:37:26. > :37:31.for tariff free access The bust-up between Tories over cash
:37:32. > :37:40.for access to the European single But it isn't just Europe that's
:37:41. > :37:45.causing beef between the Blues. I'm Bob Neill, MP for
:37:46. > :37:50.Bromley and Chislehurst. Bob Neill called for Chris Grayling
:37:51. > :37:53.to resign after he ruled out a Transport for London takeover
:37:54. > :37:56.of suburban rail services. Well, I think he has
:37:57. > :37:58.compromised his position. Is he right to accuse Mr Grayling
:37:59. > :38:05.of prioritising party politics over And what about those old arch
:38:06. > :38:10.rivals, peers and MPs? Baroness Boothroyd didn't hold back
:38:11. > :38:13.this week in condemning past Prime Ministers for appointing any
:38:14. > :38:18.old riff-raff to the Upper House. The repeated abuse of
:38:19. > :38:22.Prime Ministers' powers of privilege The abolition of that untrammelled
:38:23. > :38:26.power is long overdue. Begone, I say, and I hope
:38:27. > :38:33.Theresa May takes note. I doubt the Romans would have cared
:38:34. > :38:43.very much which side you cheered. Historian Mary Beard
:38:44. > :38:45.and Brexiteer Aaron Banks had a Twitter bust-up over that age
:38:46. > :38:49.old question this week. Rock'n'roll bad boy Peter Doherty
:38:50. > :38:57.has had a few bust-ups in his time. And Peter Doherty
:38:58. > :39:15.is here with me now Welcome to the programme. Thank you.
:39:16. > :39:21.Have you had lots of bust ups? Yes, I have had a few, I suppose. I have
:39:22. > :39:29.become more diplomatic over the years, I think. As you get older.
:39:30. > :39:33.Yes. Who you think that bust ups clear the air? I don't know. Did you
:39:34. > :39:43.say something about me once in Parliament? I don't think so. This
:39:44. > :39:46.is the kind of thing, isn't it, someone says something, you absorb
:39:47. > :39:51.it, get offended, and it dissolves inside you, or it eats away at you
:39:52. > :39:58.and you react. And the bus stop clear is that? No, it adds to the
:39:59. > :40:02.long-term resentment. If you have a genuine chronic this agreement
:40:03. > :40:06.between two people, husband and wife, and they have a bust up, as
:40:07. > :40:14.you call it, it just adds to the negativity. Have you had any that
:40:15. > :40:19.you have regretted? I am a generally peaceful fellow who was not that
:40:20. > :40:26.good at fighting. A bust up does not have to be violent. What is a bust
:40:27. > :40:35.up then? Lots of bust ups are when you say something. That is what it
:40:36. > :40:40.was, yes. You performed at the Bataclan. I understand you performed
:40:41. > :40:44.with someone you had had a bust up with, someone from the libertines
:40:45. > :40:49.before, but you came back and performed together again. It took
:40:50. > :40:56.them three weeks to mop up the blood. From the Bataclan. I am
:40:57. > :41:07.sorry, I thought you meant the bust up. I did not realise you were
:41:08. > :41:11.talking about the Bataclan. When Carl's face came apart, that was
:41:12. > :41:16.because he fell over on to a sink because he slipped up. What happened
:41:17. > :41:22.at the Bataclan, which was such a terrible event, did that help you
:41:23. > :41:27.come together again? We did not play that badly. I was amazed that he
:41:28. > :41:32.turned up. It has been a gradual thing, over the last couple of
:41:33. > :41:36.years, coming together for... We were offered a lot of money to come
:41:37. > :41:40.together, initially. And then we started to write together again,
:41:41. > :41:48.tentatively. He is just starting to trust me a bit more, I think. Did
:41:49. > :41:54.you regret the original bust up? Honestly, I still haven't been able
:41:55. > :42:01.to process it. After the Bataclan gig, we had a bit of a bust up.
:42:02. > :42:07.Again? Yes. I think I called him a racist. And I offered him to go toe
:42:08. > :42:11.to toe on the cobbles. I don't know where I got that expression from,
:42:12. > :42:15.the Manchester crew. I am really embarrassed about that. I thought
:42:16. > :42:21.you were going to wheel him out at some point. Maybe he is frightened
:42:22. > :42:26.to come on. What is the biggest bust up you have had? Gosh, I don't know,
:42:27. > :42:30.really. I don't think it's been a big part of my life, really. I've
:42:31. > :42:35.had political disagreements with people. I've been called a bustard,
:42:36. > :42:38.I have been in factions and taken different points of view, but an
:42:39. > :42:46.actual bust up, I can't really think. Have you ever had a bust up?
:42:47. > :42:50.Not professionally. I am sorry, Mum, dad, but my family was very much,
:42:51. > :42:55.get it out and then everything was fine. So I grew up learning that you
:42:56. > :42:59.could say what you thought, have a row and everybody thought it was
:43:00. > :43:05.fine in the end. Actually, in politics, it is not usually a big
:43:06. > :43:07.bust up. What is awful is the backstabbing behind-the-scenes
:43:08. > :43:11.briefings. I would rather you had an argument, clear the air and got on
:43:12. > :43:14.with it. It is all the stuff in the papers that I think it's horrible
:43:15. > :43:21.and one of the nasty things about politics. Have you had many bust
:43:22. > :43:28.ups? Quite a few, actually. Nothing is going to happen now. Don't worry.
:43:29. > :43:32.Somebody showed me earlier, I was watching in the room, tensions are
:43:33. > :43:40.rising, a bust up when there is a lack of leadership. Exactly. Anyway,
:43:41. > :43:44.we have run out of time. You are on tour. We all right, yes.
:43:45. > :43:46.Now, that's your lot for tonight, folks, but not for us.
:43:47. > :43:48.We're heading to Lou Lou's for the This Week Person
:43:49. > :43:52.With all the glitz and glamour of Jeremy Corbyn's potting shed,
:43:53. > :43:56.Michael and Liz were both eliminated, as usual,
:43:57. > :43:58.by the popular vote, and the runner up was,
:43:59. > :44:02.But with blonde buffoonery all the rage this year,
:44:03. > :44:12.Nighty night, don't let the BoJo blunders bite.
:44:13. > :44:13.I would certainly like to see demonstrations outside
:44:14. > :44:20.Life expectancy in Africa has risen astonishingly,
:44:21. > :44:27.as that country has entered the global economic system.
:44:28. > :44:39.I think we got through that one all right.
:44:40. > :44:47.I certainly am the proud possessor of a beautiful,
:44:48. > :44:52.very well functioning Turkish washing machine.
:44:53. > :45:06.Can Boris Johnson stay on message for a full four days?