:00:09. > :00:11.It's a great show, wonderful show, never miss it.
:00:12. > :00:20.We've got Derek Hatton, great guy, my kind of socialist.
:00:21. > :00:31.There's a crazed individual running America.
:00:32. > :00:34.The world is a different place than it was six months ago.
:00:35. > :00:37.I'm not sure Jeremy Corbyn clicked that when he voted
:00:38. > :00:45.Fake news hater and total loser, Adam Boulton is here to
:00:46. > :00:47.spread terrible lies and be terribly biased.
:00:48. > :00:49.His organisation is terrible, by the way.
:00:50. > :00:56.Yes, Donald, I'm here spreading the usual rubbish.
:00:57. > :01:05.After all, it is for that failing pile of garbage This Week.
:01:06. > :01:41.Are those the words of a great statesman?
:01:42. > :01:46.We'll be talking about that later on.
:01:47. > :01:49.And now it's time to say Andrew Neil.
:01:50. > :01:52.That's not a name, by the way, that's an executive order.
:01:53. > :02:07.A week in which this programme decided to jump
:02:08. > :02:09.on the "let's-have-a-ban" band wagon by introducing extreme vetting
:02:10. > :02:13.of politicians who want to migrate to our sofa to determine if there's
:02:14. > :02:16.the slightest possibility they might give a straight answer
:02:17. > :02:22.So far not one of them has passed this simple test and we're minded
:02:23. > :02:24.to keep our borders shut until they do.
:02:25. > :02:26.Speaking of politicians, we bring the news you've
:02:27. > :02:29.all been waiting for, Diane Abbott is on her way
:02:30. > :02:38.The nation's heart sank when it learnt that she'd been struck down
:02:39. > :02:44.It's been doing the rounds here in Westminster,
:02:45. > :02:47.especially on the Labour benches, and is known to be particularly
:02:48. > :02:52.virulent when it strikes just before a key vote on leaving the EU.
:02:53. > :02:54.It was a lucky break for the Government which,
:02:55. > :02:57.with Diane in intensive care in the back room of the Brexit Bar,
:02:58. > :03:00.Hackney, managed to scrape through the vote on Article 50
:03:01. > :03:11.We're only five weeks into the new year and it's already
:03:12. > :03:14.Today the Government droned on about Brexit,
:03:15. > :03:17.padding out a Theresa May speech into a 77-page white paper,
:03:18. > :03:19.Jeremy Corbyn planned a cabinet reshuffle,
:03:20. > :03:24.Nigel Farage was on TV, Tim Farron wasn't and the Scot Nats
:03:25. > :03:26.remained in their permanent state of confected anger.
:03:27. > :03:34.It felt a bit like Groundhog Day - probably because it was - again.
:03:35. > :03:36.Speaking of those who've been repeating themselves ad nauseum
:03:37. > :03:39.for as long anybody can remember, I'm joined on the sofa tonight
:03:40. > :03:42.by Michael #choo-choo Portillo and Harriet #it's time we had
:03:43. > :03:45.a female Dr Who and why not me since I'm used to travelling
:03:46. > :03:52.in confined spaces in my little pink election bus Harman.
:03:53. > :03:55.I guess she's also used to dealing with Daleks since she's worked
:03:56. > :04:08.Michael, your moment of the week. The Brexit vote. For decades, the
:04:09. > :04:12.House of Commons was deaf to those who wanted to talk about the loss of
:04:13. > :04:18.Parliamentary sovereignty and those who raise the subject word derided
:04:19. > :04:22.and humiliated and mocked. And now, to see the House of Commons voting
:04:23. > :04:28.to restore its sovereignty, to bring power back to the United Kingdom, by
:04:29. > :04:32.a majority of 384, is testimony to the extraordinary reversal of the
:04:33. > :04:39.last year. And whatever you think about it, it has to be rated as an
:04:40. > :04:43.historic moment. Harriet. The same historic moment but from a rather
:04:44. > :04:50.different perspective. It was walking through the division lobby
:04:51. > :04:55.with 400 plus others, and there were 400 actually who were for Remain. So
:04:56. > :04:58.this was 400 MPs going through the division lobby to ratify a
:04:59. > :05:04.referendum for a result we didn't want. In our ears was ringing the
:05:05. > :05:07.speech of George Osborne, who was basically saying, forget about this
:05:08. > :05:13.vote. This happened in June with the referendum decision. But now we have
:05:14. > :05:17.to have bills to decide what we will do about agricultural subsidy, no
:05:18. > :05:23.more common Agricultural Policy. What are we going to do about that?
:05:24. > :05:26.It is just a moment, not an agenda. There is more to come, it was only
:05:27. > :05:27.the start, and not in a And now to what's become our
:05:28. > :05:31.new regular feature, This time nearly a quarter
:05:32. > :05:36.of his MPs defied him by voting Three of them were whips tasked
:05:37. > :05:39.with enforcing Jezza's order to vote for Article 50 and 17
:05:40. > :05:42.were in his front bench team, so I think it's fair to say party
:05:43. > :05:46.discipline is not at its strongest. If they all resign, on top
:05:47. > :05:50.of all the previous resignations, he could run out of MPs
:05:51. > :05:53.to populate his shadow team and you'll soon hear the sound
:05:54. > :05:54.of tumbleweed drifting So what do Jezza's old Militant
:05:55. > :06:00.comrades make of it all? Here's Derek Hatton
:06:01. > :06:20.with his take of the week. It's always been argued, rightly so,
:06:21. > :06:23.that socialism is international. But I can't claim I've ever been
:06:24. > :06:31.the biggest fan of the EU. Probably for the reason that
:06:32. > :06:36.I was more concerned about increasing the alliance
:06:37. > :06:40.with America, even before Trump, And now it feels like
:06:41. > :06:49.we are stepping into some Brexit is now more dangerous
:06:50. > :07:01.than ever with Trump A real mad man, a relationship
:07:02. > :07:17.with America is frightening. In 2003, Jeremy Corbyn marched
:07:18. > :07:19.against the disgraceful Yesterday, I feel he got it wrong
:07:20. > :07:33.in giving his support to Theresa May and the Tories over triggering
:07:34. > :07:36.Article 50. I do understand the democracy
:07:37. > :07:39.argument, but I don't believe the majority of people who voted
:07:40. > :07:42.for Brexit actually imagined for one second that we'd be having
:07:43. > :07:45.an alliance with a vicious Trump We have now got a mad
:07:46. > :08:00.man in the White House. There's no necessity whatsoever
:08:01. > :08:02.for Jeremy Corbyn to be seen He should be providing a real
:08:03. > :08:08.alternative against vicious, vicious Tory Government supporting
:08:09. > :08:12.Trump. I was even more delighted
:08:13. > :08:21.when he got elected the second time. But this is a monumental issue and,
:08:22. > :08:24.quite honestly, it's And from the Mercado Metropolitano
:08:25. > :08:38.Backyard Cinema in South London to the This Week studio,
:08:39. > :08:53.Derek Hatton is with us now. Welcome to the programme, good to
:08:54. > :08:57.see you. You say you now have serious doubts about Jeremy Corbyn.
:08:58. > :09:04.What would you have Labour do about it? I did not say I had serious
:09:05. > :09:09.doubts, I said it made me think. You wrote two days ago in the Liverpool
:09:10. > :09:12.Echo, this shows a real lack of leadership on his part and stars now
:09:13. > :09:18.make me have serious doubts about him. You shouldn't believe
:09:19. > :09:25.everything you read in the press. But you wrote it! Harold Wilson once
:09:26. > :09:30.said a long, long time ago, a week is a long time in politics. On this
:09:31. > :09:34.issue, six months is a lifetime. I do not believe for a second that the
:09:35. > :09:41.majority of people who voted for Brexit six months ago actually
:09:42. > :09:46.believed that they were going to see a Trump Administration... You said
:09:47. > :09:52.that in the film. My question is, what would you have Labour do about
:09:53. > :09:55.Jeremy Corbyn? I understand you have invited me because you want me to
:09:56. > :10:00.hammer Jeremy Corbyn, but that is not the main reason I am talking
:10:01. > :10:04.about this. What I am saying is that Brexit in and of itself now is far
:10:05. > :10:09.more dangerous than it was in June, because of Trump in America. And I
:10:10. > :10:14.don't think people realise that there is a danger that we could
:10:15. > :10:18.become the 51st state, if we don't actually start thinking about this.
:10:19. > :10:25.I was never a real fan of Europe, but at the end of the day, I would
:10:26. > :10:31.much rather have the devil that I knew there than the mad devil that I
:10:32. > :10:35.don't know in the White House. Labour has already lost Scotland,
:10:36. > :10:38.lost the south of England, outside London. Most Labour constituencies
:10:39. > :10:45.in the North voted for Brexit, big-time. Wouldn't your position now
:10:46. > :10:50.just lose Labour the north, too? No, because it is not about saying that
:10:51. > :10:55.is the way people are. We have to talk to people, almost like it is
:10:56. > :10:59.another education job. I don't think people have clicked the reality of
:11:00. > :11:03.what Brexit means, particularly with Trump in the White House. I
:11:04. > :11:09.understand because you have said it six times. What is your take? Derek
:11:10. > :11:13.is saying what the sectarian left have always said. They are saying
:11:14. > :11:19.the public have to be told they have got it wrong. It is obviously right
:11:20. > :11:22.that the situation is more dangerous for our economy with Trump being a
:11:23. > :11:27.protectionist in the White House. Of course it is. So Theresa May should
:11:28. > :11:32.be careful about being so rejectionist of our economic
:11:33. > :11:35.partners in Europe. We need that trade, so she should think again
:11:36. > :11:39.about it. But the idea that what we should do to people who previously
:11:40. > :11:44.voted Labour and voted Leave is to give them a talking to about how
:11:45. > :11:52.they have got it wrong... That is not what I am saying. Was Mr Corbyn
:11:53. > :12:00.writes to put on a three line whip? Yes. But if you are a leader putting
:12:01. > :12:03.a three line whip on for something people find very difficult, and in
:12:04. > :12:05.opposition most of the choices are bad choices because you are not
:12:06. > :12:09.setting the context, just reacting, you need to at least have some
:12:10. > :12:14.confidence from the people and to be able to cajole them and have them go
:12:15. > :12:17.with you. That is the difficulty, because he cannot command their
:12:18. > :12:24.loyalty because he did not show loyalty. But he is right in saying
:12:25. > :12:28.that the Article 50 vote was taken in June and this is just
:12:29. > :12:34.ratification. Let's go onto the next discussion about the future. What is
:12:35. > :12:39.your take? A stopped clock is right twice a day, so Jeremy Corbyn is
:12:40. > :12:43.from time to time right, and he was right about imposing a three line
:12:44. > :12:46.whip. It was important that the Labour Party should have a position
:12:47. > :12:51.and the position he selected for the Labour Party was the correct
:12:52. > :12:54.position. For the Labour Party to appear to be indifferent or opposed
:12:55. > :13:01.to the popular vote would be suicidal for the Labour Party. As
:13:02. > :13:05.far as the Trump thing is concerned, I am tempted to add it to the great
:13:06. > :13:10.achievements of David Cameron, who got us into this mess in the first
:13:11. > :13:17.place. One thinks the Brexit vote played a part in the success of
:13:18. > :13:22.Trump. It certainly... He thinks it did. It certainly gave him more
:13:23. > :13:27.confidence to think he could win. As how Trump plays into all of this, I
:13:28. > :13:32.think in the end because he is so hostile to the European Union and
:13:33. > :13:37.Germany in particular, in the context of the endgame, the
:13:38. > :13:40.political endgame in two years' time, the European Union will be
:13:41. > :13:45.very frightened. And my guess is that will make for a softer Brexit
:13:46. > :13:50.than otherwise. Although I accept it could lead to the opposite reaction.
:13:51. > :13:55.What is your reply to Harriet, that people did know what they were
:13:56. > :14:00.voting for? They had a gut instinct and they wanted to leave. And you
:14:01. > :14:06.talking to them on the doorstep is not going to make them change their
:14:07. > :14:10.mind. When we talk about the popular vote, 52-48 is not a massive
:14:11. > :14:16.majority. It is a majority but not a massive majority. People voted
:14:17. > :14:20.Brexit for a lot of reasons. The day after Brexit I was walking along the
:14:21. > :14:25.road and someone came up who said, we got them, didn't we? He was
:14:26. > :14:31.saying, we got one over on the establishment, which was his reason
:14:32. > :14:37.for voting Brexit. I think a lot of people certainly had a change of
:14:38. > :14:41.mind afterwards. But even more so now since Trump has emerged in
:14:42. > :14:44.America. More people are having to think again. I don't think it is a
:14:45. > :14:49.case of saying, this is what you should do. That is the reason why I
:14:50. > :14:53.thought Jeremy should not have gone that way yesterday and given more
:14:54. > :14:58.time to see what evolves and emerges. I don't think it is going
:14:59. > :15:02.to be plain sailing. There is a test coming up, the Stoke by-election,
:15:03. > :15:10.which was Brexit Central in terms of the referendum, 70% of the people
:15:11. > :15:14.voting to leave. Labour is running with a staunchly pro-Remain
:15:15. > :15:19.candidate. If you lose, your theory has crashed on take-off. Not that
:15:20. > :15:22.all because yesterday people saw Jeremy taking a particular
:15:23. > :15:28.alignment. It is almost as though he cannot win either way. If they lose
:15:29. > :15:31.Stoke, people will say what you have said. If they win, they will say it
:15:32. > :15:37.is because Jeremy went against yesterday. I just don't believe we
:15:38. > :15:50.are in a position where it is as easy as it was in June. It is far
:15:51. > :15:58.harder now. Labour is now split over this in the way we always thought
:15:59. > :16:01.the Tories were. The party would have been divided and will remain
:16:02. > :16:07.divided on this issue with the votes that are coming up. It will be a
:16:08. > :16:10.running sword for Labour the way Maastricht was for the Tories. It
:16:11. > :16:15.will be a big challenge undoubtedly and I think the problems that we are
:16:16. > :16:19.facing now didn't start with Jeremy Corbyn, they've been a long time
:16:20. > :16:23.coming. But the question is whether or not he can convince people that
:16:24. > :16:28.he is the solution and that Labour is the solution to those problems
:16:29. > :16:33.because actually hoping that you can just tell people that they've been
:16:34. > :16:36.duped and got it wrong and telling people the Tories are awful, most
:16:37. > :16:40.people in stoke think the Tories are awful anyway and thought they were
:16:41. > :16:43.awful in the 80s but they wouldn't vote for us until we won their trust
:16:44. > :16:47.again and that's what we have got to do.
:16:48. > :16:51.The reason the Labour Party is defeatist at the moment and facing
:16:52. > :16:54.the abyss is not because it's split on Europe, it's because it's chosen
:16:55. > :16:58.Jeremy Corbyn as its leader. Let's get the sequence right. In your
:16:59. > :17:04.heart, don't you feel that Labour's sleep walking to a calamitous
:17:05. > :17:09.defeat? I don't know. Who knows what is going to happen in stoke. But I'm
:17:10. > :17:12.not sure that Michael's particularly right saying it's all about Jeremy.
:17:13. > :17:16.I don't think that is right at all. What it is is the Labour Party's
:17:17. > :17:21.gone through a massive transition and, as I said on the film, I
:17:22. > :17:24.supported Jeremy the first time, was delighted the second time he got
:17:25. > :17:27.elected. I think the amount of people that have joined the Labour
:17:28. > :17:31.Party and getting active and politicised is the best for decades.
:17:32. > :17:36.I love that and think more and more people are getting involved. I think
:17:37. > :17:39.that will lead to more electoral success because those people will
:17:40. > :17:47.breed other people will breed other people. Do you remember Neil Kinnock
:17:48. > :17:50.saying to people like yourself don't mistake the enthusiasm of the
:17:51. > :17:57.minority for the support of the majority? We can have all the fair
:17:58. > :18:03.men but we have got to reach out... We never lost an election. Derek,
:18:04. > :18:10.you're enthusiastic about what's happened to the Labour Party and so
:18:11. > :18:14.are we. I don't know who he means by "we", maybe it's a Royal we. Nice to
:18:15. > :18:30.see you again, thanks for being with us.
:18:31. > :18:35.But titter ye not, we've all been deeply concerned
:18:36. > :18:39.Comrade McDonnell mentioned some of her symptoms; headaches,
:18:40. > :18:41.dehydration and empty bottles of Blue Nun, scary stuff!
:18:42. > :18:43.For those of you also suffering from Brexit fever,
:18:44. > :18:46.fear not because waiting in the wings is impersonator
:18:47. > :18:47.in chief, Rory Bremner, putting statesmanship
:18:48. > :18:52.In the meantime, probably best to stay away from the Facebooze,
:18:53. > :18:54.try not to get totally Twittered, you'll only Snapcrash and end
:18:55. > :18:58.Labour is now split over this in the way we always thought
:18:59. > :19:01.The party would have been divided and will remain
:19:02. > :19:06.divided on this issue with the votes that are coming up.
:19:07. > :19:08.It will be a running sword for Labour the way
:19:09. > :19:16.Now, time for some more good news - no we haven't been taken off air.
:19:17. > :19:20.I'm talking about the Bank of England rosy reforecast
:19:21. > :19:23.of economic growth this year, reversing its warning
:19:24. > :19:27.that the economy would go to hell in a hand basket if we were stupid
:19:28. > :19:31.Now it's predicting the same growth this year as it did when it thought
:19:32. > :19:34.So who's the stupid one now, Governor Carney?
:19:35. > :19:37.Anyway, here's Sky News' Adam Boulton with his political
:19:38. > :19:43.I should have known when This Week told me all I had to do
:19:44. > :19:46.was to escape to Brexit that it wouldn't be easy.
:19:47. > :19:50.I'm heading straight for the BBC cooler.
:19:51. > :19:54.The week began with a reminder of the crisis in social care.
:19:55. > :19:57.Minister David Mowatt said the children of elderly parents
:19:58. > :20:02.should take primary responsibility for them, not the state.
:20:03. > :20:07.I suppose it might be one way of saving money.
:20:08. > :20:12.Nobody ever questions the fact that parents,
:20:13. > :20:15.that we look after our children, that's just obvious and some
:20:16. > :20:18.of the way we think about that, in terms of the volume of numbers
:20:19. > :20:22.we see coming down the track, will have to imping on the way
:20:23. > :20:24.that we start thinking about how we look after our parents.
:20:25. > :20:27.Rather than concerns about people who're already stuck here,
:20:28. > :20:32.the week's biggest row was about where people might
:20:33. > :20:45.President Trump's migration ban in the name of national security
:20:46. > :20:52.and fighting terrorism sparked protests across the globe.
:20:53. > :20:57.Eventually, the Foreign Secretary said that the UK didn't agree
:20:58. > :21:02.with the American policy but still needed to work with the US
:21:03. > :21:11.So this is not an approach that this Government would take.
:21:12. > :21:15.But let me conclude by reminding the House of the vital importance
:21:16. > :21:21.of this country's alliance with the United States,
:21:22. > :21:25.the defence intelligence which I'm sure they appreciate and understand
:21:26. > :21:37.Nigel Farage complete with Trump lapel badge explained the benefits
:21:38. > :21:49.of the policy to the European Parliament.
:21:50. > :21:52.Trump is motivated by protecting the United States of America
:21:53. > :21:54.from Islamic terrorism, whereas what has happened in this
:21:55. > :21:57.room and in governments around Europe is you have welcomed these
:21:58. > :22:05.One Labour MEP made it clear what he thought of Mr Farage.
:22:06. > :22:10.It is the unelected commission that have the sole right
:22:11. > :22:20.Never mind stopping people getting in, I have to get out of here.
:22:21. > :22:25.Jeremy Corbyn lead on Trump at PMQs, the Labour leader wanting to know
:22:26. > :22:30.why Mrs May couldn't withdraw the invitation to Trump to meet
:22:31. > :22:40.Just what more does President Trump have to do before the Prime Minister
:22:41. > :22:45.will listen to the 1.8 million people who have already
:22:46. > :22:51.called for his state visit invitation to be withdrawn?
:22:52. > :22:55.But the Prime Minister batted him off with a dose of real politic
:22:56. > :22:58.and a dash of backbench pleasing tub thumping.
:22:59. > :23:01.Would he have been able to protect British citizens from the impact
:23:02. > :23:06.Would he have been able to lay the foundations of a trade deal?
:23:07. > :23:10.Would he have got a 100% commitment to Nato?
:23:11. > :23:37.Parliament got its supreme court ordered chance to debate triggering
:23:38. > :23:42.The government said it didn't make any difference.
:23:43. > :23:45.We asked the people of the UK if they wanted to leave
:23:46. > :23:54.At the core of this bill lies a simple question.
:23:55. > :24:02.Labour was ordered to support the government,
:24:03. > :24:09.Two thirds of Labour MPs represent constituencies that voted to leave.
:24:10. > :24:12.One third represent constituencies that voted to remain.
:24:13. > :24:16.This is obviously a difficult decision.
:24:17. > :24:23.No one doubted the outcome of the vote to leave,
:24:24. > :24:25.but a string of Remainers had their say.
:24:26. > :24:34.Democracy means not giving up your sleeves when the
:24:35. > :24:36.Democracy means not giving up your beliefs when the
:24:37. > :24:40.The government has decided not to make the economy the
:24:41. > :24:45.They have prioritised immigration control,
:24:46. > :24:46.a clear message from the
:24:47. > :24:50.We are combining withdrawal from the single
:24:51. > :24:52.market and the customs union with this great
:24:53. > :24:54.new globalised future, which offers tremendous
:24:55. > :24:57.Apparently, you follow the rabbit down the hole,
:24:58. > :25:01.The right honourable member yesterday
:25:02. > :25:05.But Alice only took herself into the hole.
:25:06. > :25:09.This Prime Minister is taking virtually all of the Tory party,
:25:10. > :25:12.half the Labour Party and the entire country into the hole.
:25:13. > :25:29.Thank God they are building a third runway atHeathrow.
:25:30. > :25:34.It's a nightmare getting out of here.
:25:35. > :25:47.Looks like we're going to have to jump for it.
:25:48. > :26:13.Oi, escape to Brexit, it's the will of the people!
:26:14. > :26:33.Adam Boulton with production values you don't normally see on TV.
:26:34. > :26:36.Probably just as well! Does this Brexit white paper tell us
:26:37. > :26:41.anything new that we didn't know already?
:26:42. > :26:46.It tells us that apparently you can spin out a very thin set of thoughts
:26:47. > :26:52.to 77 pages. I'm impressed. With the help of charts and graphs and
:26:53. > :26:56.repeating all manner of things, even putting in the SNP policies. And of
:26:57. > :27:00.course the fact that it was printed the day after the debate sort of
:27:01. > :27:04.told us how very relevant it was to the hole matter. Is Brexit now
:27:05. > :27:08.unstoppable? I think it was decided in June. I mean, if you are having a
:27:09. > :27:12.referendum and the Conservatives won the election with the manifesto
:27:13. > :27:16.commitment to an in-out referendum, so once they'd won the election, we
:27:17. > :27:20.were going to have a referendum, we had the referendum then we lost it,
:27:21. > :27:24.albeit by a narrow majority, but we lost it. Therefore now we need to
:27:25. > :27:29.move on to the issues that do need to be decided. In relation to the
:27:30. > :27:32.white paper, and I agree with Michael, I don't know what is more
:27:33. > :27:36.alarming, the idea that you've got a Government that is doing the wrong
:27:37. > :27:40.thing or the idea that you've got a Government that doesn't seem to have
:27:41. > :27:45.a clue what it's doing. And quite often, that is what it sounds like
:27:46. > :27:48.at the moment. You know, they're talking about being tough on
:27:49. > :27:53.immigration at exactly the same time as the training places for nurses is
:27:54. > :27:58.falling by 23%. So what are we going to do? Stop the nurses coming from
:27:59. > :28:02.Portugal and Spain? There are a whole load of things that don't seem
:28:03. > :28:06.to be adding up. We have twice as much trade with Europe as we have
:28:07. > :28:12.with America, America is going protectionist. Maybe not with us. Mr
:28:13. > :28:16.Trump wants a free trade bill, so maybe not with us? The idea that we
:28:17. > :28:19.are going to have exceptional special place, when he was asked is
:28:20. > :28:24.Britain at the front of the queue then for his trade deal, he said,
:28:25. > :28:30.oh, you're doing great. He didn't answer. His add Jens is not us, his
:28:31. > :28:36.audience is the US. Hence the invitation to make a state visit. We
:28:37. > :28:40.are trying to buy something. If an amendment was put down to Article
:28:41. > :28:47.50, I know what it would be called, but if it said that, as we do this,
:28:48. > :28:52.we guarantee the status of the three million plus EU citizens who live
:28:53. > :28:58.here, that we don't want to make them a bargaining card regardless of
:28:59. > :29:01.how our ex-pats will be treatd by the EU, we are going to do that
:29:02. > :29:05.because we believe it's the right thing to do, that could get through
:29:06. > :29:08.Parliament could it not? There is a majority in Parliament to do it as I
:29:09. > :29:13.understand it. Whether it gets called and becomes part of the Bill
:29:14. > :29:19.is a different issue. Ask the woman behind the amendment. I've tabled
:29:20. > :29:23.it. We should do. We shouldn't use people who've been here sometimes
:29:24. > :29:27.two, three decades, as a bargaining chip for people... I would think it
:29:28. > :29:32.were extraordinary if it were called. Have you had any guidance?
:29:33. > :29:35.I'm sure it will be within scope and it should be selected because it
:29:36. > :29:40.will get a lot of support. But also businesses don't want the sense that
:29:41. > :29:46.somehow the people that are working for them, whether in construction,
:29:47. > :29:50.in agriculture, in care, are those care homes suddenly going to... I
:29:51. > :29:55.must say it's a non-point. It's perfectly clear that people here now
:29:56. > :29:59.will be able to stay, it's a question of whether when that
:30:00. > :30:02.Government makes it clear. It's not clear to them at all. There is
:30:03. > :30:06.concern, even though we think it's clear, they are worried because they
:30:07. > :30:10.haven't had it guaranteed. And the idea of using it as a bargaining
:30:11. > :30:17.chip in respect of our citizens abroad is completely wrong. Does
:30:18. > :30:24.anybody seriously think that this country will pay 60 billion euro
:30:25. > :30:30.exit fee? I don't think we will but I think we will pay quite a lot of
:30:31. > :30:35.money as part of this deal. As an exit fee or paying for access,
:30:36. > :30:39.privileged access to the single market? Well. It will be the same
:30:40. > :30:41.things. Exactly. Paying for privileged access, but it could be
:30:42. > :30:52.presented in different ways. It's interesting. I don't think the
:30:53. > :30:57.Government has ever closed down this option. When you don't close down an
:30:58. > :31:01.option, it implies that you have the option in mind. Actually, I think
:31:02. > :31:07.paying money to the European Union after we have left would be deeply
:31:08. > :31:10.unpopular. At least as unpopular as immigration, free movement from the
:31:11. > :31:15.European Union. Nonetheless, it seems the Government seems that --
:31:16. > :31:21.believes it has some leveraged with money. It would be unpopular. Of
:31:22. > :31:24.course. The government is confronting a whole load of things
:31:25. > :31:29.which appear to be different from what they promised. They promised we
:31:30. > :31:34.would save ?350 million to put in the NHS. It now looks as though just
:31:35. > :31:44.to leave we have to pay out money. The Government didn't promise that.
:31:45. > :31:48.The Leave campaign. The Leave campaign said, take back control on
:31:49. > :31:51.immigration and that was understood by people as having fewer
:31:52. > :31:57.immigrants. It wasn't about control, it was about the message being sent
:31:58. > :32:02.of having fewer immigrants. I have asked Theresa May questions, are we
:32:03. > :32:04.going to have a few EU nationals doing agriculture, doing
:32:05. > :32:12.construction, what about care industry? Answer comes there none.
:32:13. > :32:16.She was for Remain but she is leading a Leave government. Your
:32:17. > :32:22.party will need an immigration policy, too. Any sign of that? Well,
:32:23. > :32:29.it will have to be developed. As will the Government's policy. Can
:32:30. > :32:35.you give us any word to a worried nation about Diane Abbott tonight?
:32:36. > :32:40.Any update. I think that Diane, who was on Question Time last Thursday
:32:41. > :32:43.setting out very firmly why she was going to vote for Article 50, I
:32:44. > :32:48.can't imagine that she would not have carried that through unless she
:32:49. > :32:52.was ill. Because she had a ready been on Question Time, which are
:32:53. > :32:56.constituents would have watched, as well as this programme, and they
:32:57. > :33:00.would have heard her arguing that the right thing to do unfortunately
:33:01. > :33:04.is to vote for Article 50. I have not put a soothing hand on her
:33:05. > :33:10.forehead or taken her temperature, but I suspect she is unwell. If you
:33:11. > :33:14.do, give her our good wishes. We will probably have a moment of
:33:15. > :33:17.silence, just to pray. Actually, we do not have time.
:33:18. > :33:20.So folks, we've all been attending Trump University's diplomacy courses
:33:21. > :33:22.and after three days and $50,000 in fees we've already graduated.
:33:23. > :33:24.Michael has begun building a wall around his house,
:33:25. > :33:27.so he can stop himself from stealing British people's' jobs,
:33:28. > :33:29.plus protect himself from the bad hombres out there.
:33:30. > :33:31.And Harriet has been appointed Trump's special envoy to Australia,
:33:32. > :33:35.I mean what could possibly go wrong with Australian-American relations?
:33:36. > :33:48.Theresa May and Donald Trump took statesmanship to intimate
:33:49. > :33:57.I think you are also Theresa and I believe we are going
:33:58. > :34:00.MPs quickly compared their courtship to Britain's dark, diplomatic past.
:34:01. > :34:08.Now this Government's hand in hand with another fascist, Trump.
:34:09. > :34:10.Why on earth, has Theresa the appeaser got him
:34:11. > :34:16.Both Nicolae Ceausescu and Robert Mugabe have been entertained
:34:17. > :34:22.What happens when you just don't get on?
:34:23. > :34:25.President Trump reportedly put the phone down on Australian Prime
:34:26. > :34:26.Minister Malcolm Turnbull after discussing the refugee
:34:27. > :34:32.settlement deal that he later called dumb.
:34:33. > :34:33.It's better that these things, these conversations,
:34:34. > :34:38.are conducted candidly, frankly, privately.
:34:39. > :34:46.You'll see reports of them, I'm not going to add to them.
:34:47. > :34:48.Nigel Farage confirmed his imperious statesmanship might feature
:34:49. > :35:00.It's early days, there's no script, we don't know how it's going to end,
:35:01. > :35:05.Impressionist Rory Bremner has impersonated a few leading
:35:06. > :35:20.And Nigel Farage, I mean Rory Bremner is with us now.
:35:21. > :35:29.Welcome. That was a bit of satire, wasn't it? Do we recognise
:35:30. > :35:35.statesmanship at the time, or is it only later that we recognise it?
:35:36. > :35:41.Possibly it is when we look back. It is a coming together of two things.
:35:42. > :35:47.It is a leader and a moment in time. Leader plus moment in time equals
:35:48. > :35:54.statesman. You think of Franklin Roosevelt, or Churchill during the
:35:55. > :35:58.war. But there can be moments. In South Africa, De Klerk and Mandela.
:35:59. > :36:02.We think of Mandela, but De Klerk played a huge role in that. There
:36:03. > :36:05.can also be moments when people come together. You think about Tony Blair
:36:06. > :36:11.and the Northern Ireland peace agreement. I feel the hand of
:36:12. > :36:15.history on my shoulder. This is no time for sound bites, but I feel the
:36:16. > :36:19.hand of history on my shoulder. That was a moment of statesmanship. John
:36:20. > :36:24.Major, again, very much involved with that. There can be moments of
:36:25. > :36:29.statesmanship but it is a coming together of two things. The opposite
:36:30. > :36:35.applies. Look at Europe in the last year, a failure of statesmanship,
:36:36. > :36:40.not just by David Cameron. Earlier, you were talking about David Cameron
:36:41. > :36:44.having not a statesman-like approach last year. And in Europe, if there
:36:45. > :36:49.had been a statesman in Europe more than anything else who could stand
:36:50. > :36:52.up and say to Europe, and actually put the case for Europe and bring
:36:53. > :36:56.Europe together and say that Europe needs to reform. You can see what is
:36:57. > :37:03.happening in Britain and the Netherlands. It was the lack of that
:37:04. > :37:06.which put us where we are now. There are people in France who think they
:37:07. > :37:12.are the one for that. Are we short of statesmen at the moment? Yes, I
:37:13. > :37:18.think so. I largely agree with Rory's analysis. Sometimes it is not
:37:19. > :37:22.easy to know what statesmanship is at the time. When Chamberlain came
:37:23. > :37:26.back from Munich he was cheered to the rafters, received on the balcony
:37:27. > :37:30.of Buckingham Palace by the well family, considered a great moment of
:37:31. > :37:33.statesmanship. On the other hand, when Churchill became Prime Minister
:37:34. > :37:37.and made speeches which have gone down in history, he was not cheered
:37:38. > :37:42.by his own Conservative benches for his first year in office as wartime
:37:43. > :37:46.Prime Minister. It was a long time before his own party would recognise
:37:47. > :37:50.he was achieving as Prime Minister. It sounds to me like what raw and
:37:51. > :37:55.Michael are talking about the good old days. Donald Trump has torn up
:37:56. > :38:02.the rules and it is post-protocol politics now. He is on the world
:38:03. > :38:09.stage like the political equivalent of the global financial crisis. I
:38:10. > :38:11.remember Gordon Brown saying, the global financial crisis is tearing
:38:12. > :38:15.everything up and we need to leap over and ahead of it in order to get
:38:16. > :38:21.some sort of control over the situation. I think that is the case
:38:22. > :38:25.with Trump. He is burning his route, and everyone is sitting back and
:38:26. > :38:30.reacting. That is not going to be a good thing. That is why I think that
:38:31. > :38:35.handholding, walking holding hands, it doesn't look to me like Theresa
:38:36. > :38:43.May is jumping ahead of the Trump phenomenon and actually controlling
:38:44. > :38:47.the situation. She got 100% commitment on Nato. She should have
:38:48. > :38:54.had a briefing which said, stay well clear when you walk beside him. How
:38:55. > :38:58.would anybody know that? It is understandable, they were walking
:38:59. > :39:01.down the steps and he took her hand. There is another interpretation that
:39:02. > :39:09.he does not like steps, so he took her hand to help himself. It was to
:39:10. > :39:17.stop her running away. The difference is that statesmen or
:39:18. > :39:20.women bring people together as opposed to divide. Dictators and
:39:21. > :39:29.demagogues divide. Statesmen and states women bring people together.
:39:30. > :39:34.And they rise above party. Churchill and FDR were above party. There is
:39:35. > :39:40.kind of Vanins Thracian. You talk about Churchill in May in 1940 when
:39:41. > :39:43.he had to persuade the Cabinet. There is a sense of inspiration,
:39:44. > :39:50.some greatness breathed into somebody at a moment in history. Who
:39:51. > :39:58.is to know? Maybe history judges it. Who would you describe as a states
:39:59. > :40:03.person today? Oh, Lord! I can't see any on the horizon. Wouldn't it be
:40:04. > :40:08.amazing if we had... Look at the Islamic world. If we had a sunny
:40:09. > :40:13.Mandela and a Shi'ite De Klerk saying, listen, this is a great
:40:14. > :40:27.relish and -- religion, and reclaim Islam from Isis, if you like. Who
:40:28. > :40:32.have been great states women? Go on, Michael. What about Margaret
:40:33. > :40:40.Thatcher. I thought Theresa May had echoes of Margaret Thatcher, post
:40:41. > :40:46.traumatic stress syndrome. What do you think of his suggestion? Think
:40:47. > :40:50.of Thatcher's role in world affairs, the fall of the Soviet Union, the
:40:51. > :40:56.liberation of Eastern Europe, the restoration of democracy to millions
:40:57. > :40:59.of people. My constituents were literally dying on hospital waiting
:41:00. > :41:04.lists when she was cutting the NHS. You were in the Cabinet, Chief
:41:05. > :41:10.secretary at the time. Whatever she was doing abroad, my view of her is
:41:11. > :41:15.coloured by what was actually happening to my constituents. What
:41:16. > :41:23.you are saying is entirely wrong. Public spending went marching
:41:24. > :41:28.upwards year after year. Welcome to this Week, 1984, fighting the
:41:29. > :41:35.battles again. The NHS was on its knees when you were in government.
:41:36. > :41:40.What about Angela Merkel. Yes, she is popular at home. Statesmen are
:41:41. > :41:46.often unpopular. Gorbachev, you could argue he was another one.
:41:47. > :41:51.Statesmen are often unpopular at home. Churchill was unpopular at
:41:52. > :41:58.home for a long time. Did Russia need Gorbachev at that moment? Did
:41:59. > :42:07.Britain need Thatcher at that moment? I am not quite answer that
:42:08. > :42:13.one, Harriet, either. Mrs Gandhi? Mrs Gandhi? I was thinking, was
:42:14. > :42:18.Gandhi married? What are you doing these days? I am starting touring
:42:19. > :42:25.next week. Jan ravens will join me, doing Theresa May. That starts on
:42:26. > :42:30.choose day. Look up my tour. And I am doing a documentary on ADHD, and
:42:31. > :42:41.a show at the Soho Theatre on Monday night. And Donald Trump will
:42:42. > :42:48.feature? He will feature. There will be 100,000 people. It will be great,
:42:49. > :43:00.so fantastic. Look at that. She is so hot there. How is the book going?
:43:01. > :43:05.Good. It is published today, so it is early doors. You will get the
:43:06. > :43:12.early returns in the morning. It has had lots of good publicity.
:43:13. > :43:16.But not for us, we're off to Stoke on Trent for Paul Nuttall's
:43:17. > :43:17.house-warming extravaganza, it's BYOB, of course.
:43:18. > :43:21.But, come to think of it, he's said it's bring your own food too,
:43:22. > :43:23.and your own wallpaper and your own furniture.
:43:24. > :43:26.He's also texted to ask if any of us remember the address - weird.
:43:27. > :43:27.Sadly for Michael's special relationship,
:43:28. > :43:31.She doesn't want to jeopardise her recovery and would neverR attend
:43:32. > :43:34.a social event at the expense of her health.
:43:35. > :43:41.Nighty night, don't let the Brexit bug bite.
:43:42. > :43:43.Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour Party,
:43:44. > :43:51.It's really important for people to understand that.
:43:52. > :43:54.Could you give us two minutes of your time, Ms Abbott?
:43:55. > :44:00.# I decree today that life is simply taking and not giving
:44:01. > :44:10.How is she feeling, by the way, because apparently she wasn't
:44:11. > :44:12.quite well enough go to the Commons yesterday?
:44:13. > :44:26.Well, Diane will have to explain her own position.
:44:27. > :44:37.It's not for me to explain Diane's actions.
:44:38. > :44:39.It is extraordinary that Diane Abbott sneaks off,
:44:40. > :44:42.You can't have it both ways in politics.
:44:43. > :44:57.If you bottle the vote, it's cowardice.
:44:58. > :44:58.I don't know any more than you do about Diane.
:44:59. > :45:02.All I could say is, Diane, if you are watching, get well soon.
:45:03. > :45:03.Indeed. I'm sure we all share that sentiment.