:00:10. > :00:19.# Big John # Big John from the heart of
:00:20. > :00:34.Westminster came a legend. Now the legend comes to life. Last
:00:35. > :00:40.night, Liz, he threatened to kill Donald's state visit with his bare
:00:41. > :00:47.hands, then he snuck over to my place and stole my blue nun. I don't
:00:48. > :00:52.know if you've noticed my hat but I'm not the sheriff around these
:00:53. > :00:58.parts any more. You need Andrew. Do you think he'll go after him? He'll
:00:59. > :01:05.go. Big John is heading them up and moving them out, and he's lining up
:01:06. > :01:11.the greatest outlaws in the west. And even Kate Parsons is on the gold
:01:12. > :01:19.rush, filling our cautious with most lewd and riches in all the land. The
:01:20. > :01:29.fastest news round-up in the west. You looking for trouble? Not any
:01:30. > :01:34.more. The finest moneyman in the west, Liam Halligan, is on the run
:01:35. > :01:43.from big, bad John. He's looking for a safe house to hide. Sajid Javid
:01:44. > :01:51.said the housing market is broken. We need to fix it! And funnyman Matt
:01:52. > :02:00.Forde's quaking in his boots. Big John really hates him. In a time
:02:01. > :02:08.when heroes are hard to find, the bad John is one of a kind.
:02:09. > :02:11.Let me make clear right from the start that,
:02:12. > :02:14.though we value our relationship with the United States,
:02:15. > :02:17.and whether or not Donald Trump makes a state visit to this country
:02:18. > :02:20.is way above my pay grade, I would not wish to issue
:02:21. > :02:24.an invitation for President Trump to appear on this programme.
:02:25. > :02:27.I appreciate he's expressed no interest in doing so anyway.
:02:28. > :02:30.But that won't stop me doing a bit of grandstanding and virtue
:02:31. > :02:33.signalling before the rest of the media and the wider public.
:02:34. > :02:37.I've taken this position after much serious consideration as to how much
:02:38. > :02:41.free publicity it's likely to garner and without consulting
:02:42. > :02:45.But frankly what Newsnight does is its own business and he's never
:02:46. > :02:52.Now I know that, over the years, we've welcomed Vlad the Impaler,
:02:53. > :02:55.Diane Abbott, Adolf Hitler, Attila the Hun, Ken Livingstone
:02:56. > :02:59.and Transylvania's very own Country Dracula into this studio.
:03:00. > :03:03.But let me say, as a self-important, solipsistic, egotistical,
:03:04. > :03:06.preening, pretentious, puffed up, postulating,
:03:07. > :03:09.pompous little pixie in love with the sound of my own voice,
:03:10. > :03:12.this programme's long-running opposition to free speech,
:03:13. > :03:16.sensible debate and proper analysis, coupled with its deep commitment
:03:17. > :03:20.to free Blue Nun for all means I would not feel comfortable sharing
:03:21. > :03:23.a sofa on the public airwaves with someone who says what he thinks
:03:24. > :03:27.and has never had even a sip of alcohol in his life.
:03:28. > :03:30.I just could not bring myself to do it.
:03:31. > :03:32.Unless, of course, he has that long-promised contract in his pocket
:03:33. > :03:39.In which case we're ready to welcome him with a a two-hour special,
:03:40. > :03:41.a free bathrobe since apparently he doesn't have one
:03:42. > :03:45.Speaking of those who should never have been invited
:03:46. > :03:50.in the first place and have long outstayed their welcome,
:03:51. > :03:53.I'm joined on the sofa tonight by Michael #choochoo Portillo,
:03:54. > :04:07.Welcome to you both. The IMF told me the Greek debt situation is becoming
:04:08. > :04:11.exclusive. There seems to be about three weeks to settle the issue. It
:04:12. > :04:14.doesn't seem it can be settled without new contributions from EU
:04:15. > :04:19.members but, given that there are elections in France and Germany, it
:04:20. > :04:23.seems most unlikely those politicians will agree to transfers
:04:24. > :04:26.of money to the Greeks or debt forgiveness, so it looks like we are
:04:27. > :04:31.in for another Euro crisis. A programme shown earlier on the BBC
:04:32. > :04:37.would suggest the EU is becoming unstuck at the joints, so watch this
:04:38. > :04:46.space. It is the splash story in tomorrow's Financial Times. Beirut
:04:47. > :04:52.pouring -- the appalling reports this week that Assad tortured and
:04:53. > :04:57.murdered 14,000 prisoners in a single prison in a single year. Too
:04:58. > :05:01.many people seem to accept that Assad has to somehow be a part of
:05:02. > :05:05.the solution, but I don't see how you can get a lasting settlement in
:05:06. > :05:09.Syria when it is atrocities like that that are driving people toward
:05:10. > :05:14.the terrorists, and I hope our Foreign Secretary, even if the
:05:15. > :05:19.president of the USA doesn't, convinces Putin that it is in his
:05:20. > :05:23.interests to have a settlement that really works. I just don't see how
:05:24. > :05:30.that can happen when Assad is still there. ... It is like father, like
:05:31. > :05:34.son on these issues. I had a moment of the weekly few minutes ago, which
:05:35. > :05:40.is that the ninth District Court of appeals has paled law court's
:05:41. > :05:46.decision to suspend President Trump's travel ban against seven
:05:47. > :05:50.mainly Muslim countries. That only leaves the president with the
:05:51. > :05:54.Supreme Court to go to. He has a problem, there are only eight
:05:55. > :05:59.members on the Supreme Court at the moment, four liberal, four
:06:00. > :06:07.conservative. If they split 4-4, the travel ban is not held. -- not
:06:08. > :06:11.upheld. It would fall. So there is the makings of an executive against
:06:12. > :06:19.judicial whiplash. This demonstrate that the USA can deal with what
:06:20. > :06:21.Donald Trump is doing. It isn't our responsibility to do that.
:06:22. > :06:24.There was a time when housing, or the lack of it, was near the top
:06:25. > :06:28.These days, the more acute the shortage of affordable housing,
:06:29. > :06:31.the more it slips down the priority list when it comes to action.
:06:32. > :06:33.This week the May Government promised to fix our broken housing
:06:34. > :06:36.market just as the Cameron one promised before it, and the Brown
:06:37. > :06:39.one before that, oh yes, and the Blair one before that.
:06:40. > :06:42.And as all their promises gathered dust on the shelves of Whitehall,
:06:43. > :06:45.we continued to build far fewer homes than we need, rents soared
:06:46. > :06:48.and young people are now more likely to watch this programme
:06:49. > :06:55.So why will this latest housing policy be any different?
:06:56. > :06:56.Here's Liam Halligan from the Telegraph
:06:57. > :07:22.The biggest obstacle to social progress is our broken housing
:07:23. > :07:28.Fixing it means tackling some tough vested interests.
:07:29. > :07:31.The Communities Secretary's right on both counts.
:07:32. > :07:35.But his housing White Paper isn't up to the job.
:07:36. > :07:39.Over the last 20 years, we've built 2.5 million too few homes.
:07:40. > :07:51.That's led to soaring prices, making houses increasingly unaffordable.
:07:52. > :07:54.In the early '90s, low and middle income workers needed to save around
:07:55. > :07:57.5% of their wages for three years on average to build a deposit
:07:58. > :08:11.These days, they'd need 24 years of such savings.
:08:12. > :08:17.Generation rent's frustrated and rightly so.
:08:18. > :08:19.Ten years ago, 65% of 25 to 34-year-olds were
:08:20. > :08:26.The majority then of a generation of young adults is priced out
:08:27. > :08:34.of the property market and of those who did buy their first home
:08:35. > :08:39.in 2015, half got help from the Bank of Mum and Dad.
:08:40. > :08:50.The White Paper headlines are largely about the green belt.
:08:51. > :08:57.What we really need is for the big house builders that dominate
:08:58. > :09:00.the market to ease the blockage using the planning permission
:09:01. > :09:07.There's evidence which the Government largely accepts
:09:08. > :09:09.of a deliberate building go-slow to keep prices and profits
:09:10. > :09:23.Sajid Javid promised tough measures the stop large house-builders
:09:24. > :09:26.from sitting on so-called land banks, but after the White Paper
:09:27. > :09:33.The UK housing market, once a source of social mobility,
:09:34. > :09:40.This housing market White Paper promised much,
:09:41. > :09:48.Our thanks to the students and staff at Lambeth College.
:09:49. > :10:01.Welcome back to the programme. Liz, what did you make of the White
:10:02. > :10:06.Paper? Really disappointing. You know, if we are going to build more
:10:07. > :10:10.homes, we need access to land, finance, more competition among
:10:11. > :10:15.house-builders, more options, different types of housing for older
:10:16. > :10:22.people and shared ownership, and there's nothing in it to give it
:10:23. > :10:26.real teeth. And what there are many things that concern me. I see it a
:10:27. > :10:29.lot my own constituency, an increasing number of people who are
:10:30. > :10:33.homeless because they are getting kicked out of the private rented
:10:34. > :10:38.sector. The key thing is what you said about the bank of mum and dad.
:10:39. > :10:41.If your parents are better off, they give you help to get on the housing
:10:42. > :10:46.ladder, and it's a real problem for social mobility. Ward if you have to
:10:47. > :10:51.do it on your salary, it will be really difficult. What was your
:10:52. > :10:56.reaction to the White Paper? Similar, very disappointing. This is
:10:57. > :11:02.a terrible crisis and it is the worst contrast between Thatcher's
:11:03. > :11:06.Conservative government and the present one. Since the Conservatives
:11:07. > :11:10.got in in the coalition in 2010, they seem to have had no interest in
:11:11. > :11:15.home ownership. Numbers are sliding all the time. Nothing effective has
:11:16. > :11:20.been done about it at all. We used to think that the way you build a
:11:21. > :11:23.future for the Tory party, apart from anything else, was by having
:11:24. > :11:28.lots of homeowners. I agree that it is socially divisive, because there
:11:29. > :11:31.are those who will at some point in money from their parents and the
:11:32. > :11:38.rest who never will. My solution would be wrong -- more radical than
:11:39. > :11:43.less orderly. I think you have to go to the public sector. The only way
:11:44. > :11:46.you are going to get a lot of houses fast is by letting the public sector
:11:47. > :11:50.or voluntary sector do it. We don't seem to care a lot about the deficit
:11:51. > :11:55.any more. It's true that the public sector can build cheaply. What that
:11:56. > :12:00.would do is it would reduce house prices and, in due course, you could
:12:01. > :12:04.sell public sector houses into the private sector, as we did in the
:12:05. > :12:11.past. The urgency is to have a look at houses quickly. Homeownership
:12:12. > :12:16.among 25 to 34-year-olds has fallen by 30%. Quite astounding. I wanted
:12:17. > :12:22.to dig into some of the issues in a moment. Let's stand back, this has
:12:23. > :12:26.been a long-running problem for the British political system, no matter
:12:27. > :12:30.who has been in power for the past 25 years. Labour or Conservative.
:12:31. > :12:36.What is it about a system that doesn't take the right decisions to
:12:37. > :12:40.release the land and the money to build more homes? This is a
:12:41. > :12:46.cross-party issue. We need around 250,000 homes each year. That is the
:12:47. > :12:50.figure from Kate Barker report in 2004. It is still roughly right. We
:12:51. > :12:56.haven't built that many homes since the mid-80s. And that, when we beat
:12:57. > :13:01.-- when we did build those homes, two thirds were provided by small
:13:02. > :13:06.and medium-sized enterprises, which had an incentive to build quickly.
:13:07. > :13:12.Now they provide less than a fifth of homes. Big housing developers are
:13:13. > :13:16.now concentrated. There was a Lords report in summer that set the big
:13:17. > :13:19.house-builders have all the characteristics of an oligopoly. In
:13:20. > :13:23.my discussions with government before this white paper, and added a
:13:24. > :13:30.lot investigation... There was a Channel 4 documentary. I wasn't
:13:31. > :13:34.going to bring it up! There was some tough talk, and Sajid Javid, to his
:13:35. > :13:38.credit, at the Conservative conference, said that the big
:13:39. > :13:42.house-builders were guilty of land banking, and they had a stranglehold
:13:43. > :13:48.on the market. And yet the measures in this white paper don't get
:13:49. > :13:50.anywhere near towards breaking back stranglehold. We are getting a lot
:13:51. > :13:54.more planning permission coming through. That isn't being used
:13:55. > :13:59.nearly as quickly as it is being given. There is a big gap between
:14:00. > :14:03.when planning permission is given and when the houses appear. In my
:14:04. > :14:09.view, honestly, there is a deliberate those low. That
:14:10. > :14:14.deliberate those low, they would deny it... And they have denied it,
:14:15. > :14:18.let's make that clear. We will accept your position on that for the
:14:19. > :14:22.moment. But that on its own cannot be the reason that we are not
:14:23. > :14:29.building anything like 250,000 homes a year. Until recently, it was the
:14:30. > :14:32.combination of the big house-builders not wanting to build
:14:33. > :14:37.quickly, plus so-called nimbyism, people using the green belt is a
:14:38. > :14:41.sort of ethnic cleansing mechanism to keep the great unwashed away from
:14:42. > :14:45.their neighbourhood. There is more acreage given to golf courses in
:14:46. > :14:51.Surrey then there is to residential property. I would say, though, there
:14:52. > :14:56.has been a lot of effort in the last five years by a local councils, many
:14:57. > :14:58.of whom I talk to as part of my investigation, very few of whom
:14:59. > :15:02.would come on camera because they are scared of central government and
:15:03. > :15:06.the builders. They have given a lot more planning permission. In the
:15:07. > :15:10.last two years, I got some figures, the last two years where we had
:15:11. > :15:17.numbers, there was a printed increase -- 28% increase in planning
:15:18. > :15:22.permission granted for the and that is the land banking. Yes. It is also
:15:23. > :15:28.what Michael Rose. For years, we haven't trusted councils to borrow
:15:29. > :15:36.to build socially affordable homes to rent. -- it is also what Michael
:15:37. > :15:38.says. That would make the single biggest difference in my
:15:39. > :15:44.constituency. It wouldn't force people into unstable, increasing,
:15:45. > :15:52.costly and often bad quality private sector. It would get the housing
:15:53. > :16:00.bill down as well. It would reduce the rental... Yes. I would like to
:16:01. > :16:02.see longer term tenancies for people, especially families. That it
:16:03. > :16:10.is in the White Paper, though how strong it is... It is only for the
:16:11. > :16:15.new build to rent properties. That was Ed Miliband's idea, as was the
:16:16. > :16:20.land banking complaint. Use it or lose it was his cry, and Mr Osborne
:16:21. > :16:27.said it was a stupid idea, effectively. The green belt, a lot
:16:28. > :16:31.of which isn't green. Is it time to do a qualitative assessment of the
:16:32. > :16:34.green belt and say, there are some parts that are really quite brown,
:16:35. > :16:40.we can build there, we can create other green belt elsewhere and build
:16:41. > :16:45.more parks in our cities and towns and, overall it would be a plus?
:16:46. > :16:51.Liam is probably right that the green belt is a peripheral issue.
:16:52. > :16:54.However, it's one of these things which is very emblem attic that
:16:55. > :16:57.people get very, very upset about. So I think if the Government
:16:58. > :17:01.announced that it was reviewing the green belt, that would set public
:17:02. > :17:04.opinion so strongly against the whole idea of extra house building
:17:05. > :17:10.that I think it's not worth it. It would set it back all together. I
:17:11. > :17:15.think there's something in that. The social attitude survey shows
:17:16. > :17:19.so-called nimbyism is waning. You've now got increasing numbers of people
:17:20. > :17:22.who want building in their locality not least because nice middle class
:17:23. > :17:27.children called Jonathan and Emily can't buy homes. This is a story
:17:28. > :17:31.issue now and I'm surprised actually that the Prime Minister hasn't given
:17:32. > :17:35.Javid the way through to actually do something a bit more radical, not so
:17:36. > :17:39.much on the green belt, I accept that's... Anyway, the big house
:17:40. > :17:43.builders want us to have a row and nervous breakdown about the green
:17:44. > :17:51.belt but particularly on punitive measures, on forcing the big house
:17:52. > :17:55.builders to build... I like free markets but this free market is
:17:56. > :17:58.broken so you have to intervene. It raises a broader question, whether
:17:59. > :18:03.the Tory Government is too busy with Brexit to be a Tory Government. I
:18:04. > :18:07.think there is a lot in that. Conservatives are very worried about
:18:08. > :18:11.that. Here is the rub, a depressing one. Is there not a pretty good
:18:12. > :18:17.chance that things will not get better? Michael and Liz are right.
:18:18. > :18:22.We need a mixed economy solution. We need more socially provided houses.
:18:23. > :18:28.We do. And they've gone up from the hundreds to the thousands, the low
:18:29. > :18:33.single digit thousands. 300,000 for Harold Macmillan. Help raising the
:18:34. > :18:36.cap would build 60,000ing. The Housing Association model is a
:18:37. > :18:40.fantastic mod they can work and does do good work, but in the end, it's
:18:41. > :18:45.the private sector that is going to provide the majority of the homes
:18:46. > :18:48.and the private sector, I'm afraid, has every incentive to build slowly
:18:49. > :18:55.in order to keep the prices high. Allow the prices to go up and make
:18:56. > :18:59.more? Indeed. It's not just existing homeowners that want high prices,
:19:00. > :19:04.the Treasury do. Here is something you don't hear often, the banking
:19:05. > :19:08.sector want prices to go up because they are up to their neck in
:19:09. > :19:13.property loans. If the housing prices come down, it's believed the
:19:14. > :19:16.banks could collapse. Mrs May said she wants to help the just about
:19:17. > :19:18.managing so you have set a challenge for her tonight on housing, thank
:19:19. > :19:21.you, Liam. Now, it's late, pucker up
:19:22. > :19:23.and try to give Diane a kiss on the cheek late,
:19:24. > :19:26.as the Brexit Minister tried to do on Tuesday -
:19:27. > :19:29.purely in a comradely fashion, you understand, since they'd both
:19:30. > :19:31.just voted to trigger Article 50, only to be told by Madam Mao
:19:32. > :19:34.to "eff off". Not very sisterly,
:19:35. > :19:37.but she probably had a headache. Anyway, fear not, David Davis,
:19:38. > :19:40.because waiting in the wings is political funnyman Matt Forde,
:19:41. > :19:44.who's conveniently putting animosity So troll away, Facebrats,
:19:45. > :19:51.Snapchunter on - because, you see, Now, we pride ourselves
:19:52. > :19:58.on being of a religious bent here on This Week,
:19:59. > :20:03.and we're often derided for it by the secularist metrosexuals that
:20:04. > :20:05.dominate the upper echelons Not after our #PrayforDiane campaign
:20:06. > :20:14.resulted in Madam Mao rising Lazarus-like from her death bed
:20:15. > :20:17.to rude health once more - very rude, in the case of David
:20:18. > :20:22.Davis - and returning to be that shining beacon of political wisdom
:20:23. > :20:25.and integrity that we know and love. Yes, our prayers were answered
:20:26. > :20:29.and I think what especially did the trick was that little candlelit
:20:30. > :20:34.vigil choo-choo held after we came off air last
:20:35. > :20:36.week on Platform 12, Here's Andy Parsons with his rather
:20:37. > :21:02.charitable round-up Hello there, I'm Andy, doing some
:21:03. > :21:12.fund-raising for a very important charity. No, no, no, it's for some
:21:13. > :21:20.very desperate people. It's for This Week! Good afternoon, I'm collecting
:21:21. > :21:27.on behalf of This Week. # Give a little bit more... #
:21:28. > :21:35.Collection for Andrew Neil. And Michael Portillo? ! He's a sad man
:21:36. > :21:40.on a train. I'm a long way off what I need for a Knighthood. Maybe I
:21:41. > :21:45.need to do some grovelling to the Queen. I mean she's 90 years old, an
:21:46. > :21:50.incredible woman. If you think about it, she has two birthdays a year,
:21:51. > :21:55.she's officially 180. Doubly incredible. The Parliamentary week
:21:56. > :22:00.kicked off with the speaker weighing in on triumph, John Bercow declared
:22:01. > :22:03.to applause for some MPs that he wouldn't let the President address
:22:04. > :22:13.Parliament during his state visit. As far as this place is concerned, I
:22:14. > :22:19.feel very strongly that our opposition to racism and to sexism
:22:20. > :22:25.and our support for equality before the law and an independent judiciary
:22:26. > :22:30.are hugely important considerations in the House of Commons. Not
:22:31. > :22:35.everyone was clapping. Once the dust settled, John Bercow was himself
:22:36. > :22:40.accused of being a mini Trump and scalded for showing off. Lord
:22:41. > :22:44.Fowler, Bercow's counterpart wondered whether the speaker's veto
:22:45. > :22:49.should be taken away all together. It's ridiculous! Do people not know
:22:50. > :22:57.how much I've suffered for this country? I've even had to listen to
:22:58. > :23:07.my wife singing in the bath. # You really, really, really wanna
:23:08. > :23:11.zig-a-zig-ah. The position means Mr Speaker or myself can veto the
:23:12. > :23:18.leader at least as far as Westminster Hall is concerned. I
:23:19. > :23:23.think it's for Parliament to consider whether there is a better
:23:24. > :23:31.way in which such decisions can be made. Roll up, roll up, get your
:23:32. > :23:39.raffle tickets here. First prize, a bottle of premium Blue None. Second
:23:40. > :23:45.prize, a full bottle. Retails at ?1.75. Third prize, third prize.
:23:46. > :23:49.Third prize, a full bottle plus an evening with Michael Portillo.
:23:50. > :23:53.The Brexit Bill raced over the finishing line in the Commons this
:23:54. > :24:00.week. The Government comfortably saw off a rebellion by promising MPs a
:24:01. > :24:03.meaningful vote on the final deal. There will be a meaningful vote. The
:24:04. > :24:08.vote will be eother accept the deal that the Government will have
:24:09. > :24:13.achieved and I repeat, that that process of negotiation will not be
:24:14. > :24:19.without frequent reports to this House or no deal. Labour claim the
:24:20. > :24:23.vote was a major concession. Well, an inch of a concession. We are
:24:24. > :24:26.fighting hard to try to get the right concessions. There is two
:24:27. > :24:30.years to go, we won't give up the battle. It's difficult, we are in
:24:31. > :24:34.opposition, we are trying inch by inch to get more accountability and
:24:35. > :24:39.scrutiny. Tory remainers were not impressed
:24:40. > :24:42.with Labour's inchy victory. Ex-Chancellor, George Osborne,
:24:43. > :24:47.conspicuously abstained from the vote and others who did turn up gave
:24:48. > :24:55.the whips a piece of their mind. Former Education Secretary Nicky
:24:56. > :24:59.Morgan, was not impressed. The Government is in full steam ahead
:25:00. > :25:05.mode. The Foreign Secretary even took a microphone in the face at an
:25:06. > :25:13.EU summit. Say again. One more time. Jeremy
:25:14. > :25:19.Corbyn imposed a strict three-line whip on Labour to support the Bill
:25:20. > :25:26.and three whips voted against, thus making it a strict no line whip. All
:25:27. > :25:29.in all, 52 Labour MPs rebelled but the surprise of the night was the
:25:30. > :25:35.resignation of Clive Lewis moments before the vote. Another one bites
:25:36. > :25:43.the dust. But there was a silver lining. Diane's recovered. Phew. The
:25:44. > :25:48.passionate speeches just before votes can really do it. She rallied
:25:49. > :25:54.and supported the Brexit vote. How kissable she must have seemed! I say
:25:55. > :25:58.she supported it. Just about... I have a lot of misgivings about the
:25:59. > :26:05.idea of a Tory Brexit. I think the country will soon come to regret it.
:26:06. > :26:11.But the Labour Shadow Cabinet debated and decided this week that
:26:12. > :26:15.we would vote to trigger Article 50 at the third reading and I'm a loyal
:26:16. > :26:21.member of the Shadow Cabinet. Jeremy Corbyn went on social care at
:26:22. > :26:24.PMQs, ambushing the PM with leaked texts from Surrey County Council.
:26:25. > :26:31.They apparently revealed a sweetheart deal to scrap a planned
:26:32. > :26:35.referendum on an increase in council tax charge in exchange for
:26:36. > :26:39.additional funding. What deal had been offered to Surrey that got them
:26:40. > :26:44.to call off a referendum and will the same deal be offered to every
:26:45. > :26:50.other council every day that the Prime Minister fails to act? This
:26:51. > :26:55.crisis gets worse. Will she finally come clean and provide local
:26:56. > :27:01.authorities with the funding they need to fund social care properly?
:27:02. > :27:04.What he fails to recognise is that they can only spend money on social
:27:05. > :27:09.care and on the National Health Service if you have a strong economy
:27:10. > :27:13.to deliver the wealth that you need. When I talk about half a trillion
:27:14. > :27:17.pounds, that's the money we'll be spending on the NHS this Parliament.
:27:18. > :27:22.When Labour talk about half a trillion pounds, it's the money they
:27:23. > :27:28.want to borrow. Conservatives investing in the NHS, Labour
:27:29. > :27:35.bankrupting Britain. This isn't fair. All Katherine Jenkins had to
:27:36. > :27:43.do was sing some rugby songs. Swing low, sweet... Right, I've had enough
:27:44. > :27:49.of this! Right. Hello, your Majesty. On hold.
:27:50. > :28:01.Hello. Hello, your Majesty. So far we've raised ?17. 27. Woo. It was
:28:02. > :28:06.more than we were expecting, yes. But is it going to be enough for the
:28:07. > :28:16.honours committee to give me a Knighthood?
:28:17. > :28:21.Unappreciative... Andy Parsons. We'll put a word with
:28:22. > :28:26.him. He's currently on tour, we'd like to thank him for all his help.
:28:27. > :28:30.The Brexit Bill passed unscathed, sizeable majority, 120 amendments,
:28:31. > :28:36.none of them passed. What did the opposition achieve? Well, we started
:28:37. > :28:40.to raise the issues that really matter after all of this which is
:28:41. > :28:45.what kind of Brexit are we going to get, jobs or growth. I was deeply
:28:46. > :28:49.disappointed, especially over the amendment to give Parliament a
:28:50. > :28:55.meaningful vote at the end of the process. Let me come on to that in a
:28:56. > :28:58.minute. Before I do, the legislation... I mean Parliament is
:28:59. > :29:03.in recess next week for February, when it comes back the legislation
:29:04. > :29:08.goes, such as it is, goes to the Lords. Will things be any different
:29:09. > :29:11.there in your view? Well, I hope that the Lords actually presses for
:29:12. > :29:15.this amendment to give Parliament a meaningful vote at the end of the
:29:16. > :29:21.crisis. You know I was for Remain but I voted to Trig Ayr 50 because
:29:22. > :29:27.I'm -- trigger Article 50, I've abided by the result but I do want
:29:28. > :29:31.Parliament to have that say. The most important moment in Parliament
:29:32. > :29:34.this week was when the Brexit minister David Jones made a
:29:35. > :29:39.so-called concession. It was no such thing. Parliament either has to
:29:40. > :29:42.accept what the Government offers or fall back on WTO rules and in the
:29:43. > :29:49.event there is no deal, there'll be no vote at all. I don't think that's
:29:50. > :29:53.a meaningful say, to take it or leave it and, in my view, it was a
:29:54. > :29:57.con. If that was the choice, Michael, it's a Hobson's Choice, is
:29:58. > :30:04.it not, because either you vote for the deal whatever it is even if it's
:30:05. > :30:08.a bad deal because all the Remainers who may have through gritted teeth
:30:09. > :30:12.voted for a decent deal still have to vote for a bad deal because it
:30:13. > :30:20.will probably not be worse than crashing out in WTO
:30:21. > :30:26.That situation arises because of the nature of the negotiation. If the
:30:27. > :30:29.government comes back with something and parliament rejects it, do we
:30:30. > :30:33.really think the government goes back to Europe and says, Parliament
:30:34. > :30:39.has rejected it so you have to give us better terms. Surely we know that
:30:40. > :30:44.isn't going to happen. So it arises from the situation, realistically,
:30:45. > :30:50.the deal but we do will be the best deal that is available, and, yes,
:30:51. > :30:55.Parliament can reject it and then we fall back on WTO rules. I don't
:30:56. > :30:58.agree. What if there were possibly a deal where we had better access to
:30:59. > :31:04.the single market or some way of remaining in it, whilst still having
:31:05. > :31:09.some effect over freedom of movement? If the government doesn't
:31:10. > :31:12.want it, we won't get that chance. I think the government would like
:31:13. > :31:17.things to change as little as possible, and the government may be
:31:18. > :31:21.lucky because, as this is going on, freedom of movement in Europe is
:31:22. > :31:24.falling apart. So the idea that this is a fundamental principle which has
:31:25. > :31:30.to be insisted upon in the Brexit situation is untrue. Maybe there
:31:31. > :31:34.will be a deal to be done. But the government clearly wants things to
:31:35. > :31:39.be as an unchanged as possible, it doesn't want tariffs to be imposed
:31:40. > :31:47.on exports or an EU exports to us. But it gave up on you single market
:31:48. > :31:51.access before it even began. Because the partners said we couldn't have
:31:52. > :31:57.access to it. But you don't throw away your hand before you've played
:31:58. > :32:01.it, and I think a vote in parliament would strengthen Theresa May's and,
:32:02. > :32:04.because the remaining EU countries would know, if we offer something
:32:05. > :32:09.bad, we will reject it and sent it back. Why would the EU Parliament be
:32:10. > :32:16.able to reject it and not our own Parliament? You can reject it it's
:32:17. > :32:20.just the consequences might be dire. We can't send it back to be amended.
:32:21. > :32:25.When David Cameron went there last year and said, unless you give me
:32:26. > :32:30.some concessions, I might lose the referendum, they gave him
:32:31. > :32:34.concessions which were not worth the paper they were written on. But he
:32:35. > :32:42.didn't press for changes on immigration. Let's come back to
:32:43. > :32:47.this. Our stories about Jeremy Corbyn stabbing them fake news? I
:32:48. > :32:52.don't believe that he has given some kind of a date. -- Jeremy Corbyn
:32:53. > :33:00.standing down fake news. Do you think that Clive Lewis sees himself
:33:01. > :33:04.as a leadership material? I've no idea, but what we need from the
:33:05. > :33:09.leadership of our party is a clear path as to how we are going to climb
:33:10. > :33:15.this mountain in order to get back into power. You don't think you can
:33:16. > :33:20.see that yet? We have got miles to go. We are doing very badly in the
:33:21. > :33:27.polls. Two by elections coming up. What we are saying is not resonating
:33:28. > :33:31.with the public. People don't trust us on the economy and they feel we
:33:32. > :33:41.are speaking to ourselves. We need to move on. Was John Bercow right to
:33:42. > :33:47.say what he said about not, in public, not wishing to invite you to
:33:48. > :33:51.Trump to address parliament? He could have been more wrong. I think
:33:52. > :33:55.it was shocking. You showed very little respect his office. The is
:33:56. > :34:01.criticising a man who is accused of not showing much respect for his
:34:02. > :34:04.office, being narcissistic and populist, and it looked like the
:34:05. > :34:09.speaker was in danger of doing the same thing. Why didn't he make his
:34:10. > :34:16.point in private? These things are determined in private. The speaker
:34:17. > :34:20.of the Lords was not consulted, the speaker, who we have seen, and
:34:21. > :34:24.somebody called the grand great Chamberlain, or something like that.
:34:25. > :34:30.Why was it necessary to make it so public from the speaker's chair?
:34:31. > :34:35.Because I think he obviously feels this very strongly that an
:34:36. > :34:40.invitation, if it were to be issued, would have to come to him, and I
:34:41. > :34:44.think he wanted to quash any talk of it. Actually, I think all this stuff
:34:45. > :34:49.about, he is misusing his position, I don't think this is what it is
:34:50. > :34:53.about. I think some people have a vendetta against him. They think
:34:54. > :34:58.that used to be very much on the right. He has had a journey more
:34:59. > :35:01.towards the left. They like that. He has been a radical, reforming
:35:02. > :35:06.speaker, and people don't like the changes he has made. I think this
:35:07. > :35:12.motion that has been cast... A motion of no confidence in him, but
:35:13. > :35:17.it would get through. It will strengthen him. I agree that he has
:35:18. > :35:23.a lot of enemies but I don't agree that this is what he is about. But
:35:24. > :35:24.this is about. I everybody would be deeply shocked by what the speaker
:35:25. > :35:27.said. Let's move on. Now, folks, how do
:35:28. > :35:29.you like your eggs - or splattered across
:35:30. > :35:31.Nigel Farage's umbrella full of four-letter words
:35:32. > :35:39.and dripping with resentment? Yes, there's been plenty
:35:40. > :35:41.of animosity this week, and we haven't even mentioned
:35:42. > :35:44.the Shadow Cabinet. That's why we're putting
:35:45. > :35:56.it in the spotlight. Animosity between MPs
:35:57. > :35:58.and the speaker reached new heights this week,
:35:59. > :36:01.not just over Donald Trump but over his commitment to axing
:36:02. > :36:05.Commons clerks' wigs. Wigs have been worn by the clerks
:36:06. > :36:08.for several centuries. If one goes back some centuries,
:36:09. > :36:13.some several centuries, which normally it is the enjoyable
:36:14. > :36:16.sport of the honourable gentleman to do, he will find that in fact
:36:17. > :36:21.clerks did not wear wigs. Nigel Farage is no fan
:36:22. > :36:25.of John Bercow either. I'm not neutral about Bercow,
:36:26. > :36:27.in fact this bloke has Farage drives people
:36:28. > :36:33.in Stoke bonkers too. He encountered eggy animosity
:36:34. > :36:35.as he walked with election candidate Does David Beckham deserve
:36:36. > :36:45.the animosity he's received for allegedly going to desperate
:36:46. > :36:50.lengths to receive a Knighthood? Great to receive an honour
:36:51. > :36:55.for playing football. Meanwhile, across the pond,
:36:56. > :36:57.President Trump's hatred I understand the total dishonesty
:36:58. > :37:02.of the media better than anybody But, surprise, surprise,
:37:03. > :37:08.the Donald wants to confine animosity between the US and Russia
:37:09. > :37:13.to the past. I say it's better to get along
:37:14. > :37:16.with Russia than not. Will I get along with
:37:17. > :37:19.them - I have no idea. Political standup Matt Forde knows
:37:20. > :37:23.about animosity in politics. I think he gets heckled more
:37:24. > :37:41.than most comedians, Farage. Matt Forde joins us. Welcome to the
:37:42. > :37:45.programme. Pleasure. Where does all this animosity come from these days?
:37:46. > :37:52.There has always been some fair but it's a new era. Social media has
:37:53. > :37:54.fuelled some of it and a lot of politicians are to blame.
:37:55. > :38:00.Politicians often talk politics down. One of the most frustrating
:38:01. > :38:04.elements of the modern era is when somebody is any office saying, I am
:38:05. > :38:12.not a politician. If you are standing for office, by definition
:38:13. > :38:15.you are. Like Donald Trump. Farage, a lot of Ukip, Jeremy Corbyn plays
:38:16. > :38:21.on it a bit, and I don't know any industry where somebody stands for a
:38:22. > :38:25.job and says, the industry is rubbish. I don't say, comedy is
:38:26. > :38:29.clap, come and see me but the rest is awful. It's a contradiction, and
:38:30. > :38:34.I think that's given a green light to the rest of the public to be
:38:35. > :38:38.atrocious. Do you think this animosity has always been around,
:38:39. > :38:42.that social media is democratised it, in the sense that it's amplified
:38:43. > :38:47.it and it become an echo chamber of animosity? It's giving people an
:38:48. > :38:51.outlet for knee jerk reactions. People used to just watch TV and
:38:52. > :38:57.shout at it. Sometimes you need to let it out. Instead, people now have
:38:58. > :39:02.a platform for things where it's often just blind rage if you have
:39:03. > :39:05.encountered it on social media, often, when you get into a
:39:06. > :39:09.discussion with somebody who has been abusive, they often take it
:39:10. > :39:14.back and apologise. Wright the greatest animosity often comes from
:39:15. > :39:18.those on social media who have bizarre names, not their own names.
:39:19. > :39:24.They are very brave, hiding behind in the Midi, aren't you? Social
:39:25. > :39:31.media is the equivalent of a windscreen. You know how people
:39:32. > :39:39.swear when they are in a car in a windscreen. Social media is like
:39:40. > :39:43.that. I want to address David Beckham's animosity. I think the
:39:44. > :39:48.honours system is deeply corrupting. I think it's gone so badly wrong,
:39:49. > :39:55.and to see people so hungry for honours I think, is sickening. You
:39:56. > :40:00.know, it is very hard to be fair with an honours system at any level,
:40:01. > :40:04.but at the top level the awards are going for many of the wrong reasons.
:40:05. > :40:09.Even at the lower level, giving a MBE to somebody who has done nursing
:40:10. > :40:14.or community work for 20 years, we don't know if somebody else would be
:40:15. > :40:18.equally deserving. I think the system is corrupt. If the Lords
:40:19. > :40:22.voted against Brexit, we could get rid of the Lords and the honours
:40:23. > :40:26.system in one go. You are on the receiving end of a lot of nasty mess
:40:27. > :40:31.and animosity when you ran for Labour leader a couple years ago. Is
:40:32. > :40:38.there more around, do you think, all we are more aware of it? I think we
:40:39. > :40:43.are more aware of it. It's true that people, people are surprised
:40:44. > :40:49.somehow, oh, you see, yes, I have. It's also that, somebody once said,
:40:50. > :40:55.in today's world, we can travel further and further distances at our
:40:56. > :40:58.circles of reference are getting smaller, and people are so surprised
:40:59. > :41:06.when people have different views, they and attack. I have never known
:41:07. > :41:12.politics to be so divisive. Do you think there is more animosity in
:41:13. > :41:15.politics? I think so. Partly because people don't want to engage deeply
:41:16. > :41:20.with an argument and understand the nuance and it's simpler to say, we
:41:21. > :41:23.disagree, you must be evil, I'm in the right and I'm going to listen to
:41:24. > :41:27.people who agree with me. In life it's thrilling to sit opposite
:41:28. > :41:30.somebody you disagree with and have a great conversation, whether it is
:41:31. > :41:35.Liz and Michael en This Week or politicians. The thrill of sitting
:41:36. > :41:39.opposite somebody you disagree with and feeling very company is
:41:40. > :41:46.something we have lost. I remember the animosity to Mrs Thatcher,
:41:47. > :41:52.Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock... There was a lot of animosity to your good
:41:53. > :41:57.self, entirely unjustified. Mainly, to Margaret Thatcher. Then we went
:41:58. > :42:02.through a period where we were deeply worried about apathy. The BBC
:42:03. > :42:11.used to worry deeply about it. We used to have seminars on it! We did.
:42:12. > :42:17.We all went. Better than working! Is one worry we no longer have. It is
:42:18. > :42:21.true that there is animosity around but, if you look at how engaged the
:42:22. > :42:25.country got in the Scottish referendum, then the European
:42:26. > :42:29.referendum, then Donald Trump, people may not like the result but
:42:30. > :42:34.they were engaged. Yes, but sometimes there is a price to be
:42:35. > :42:39.paid. If it is more aggression, more nasty nests, I'm not entirely
:42:40. > :42:44.convinced that it's a worth paying. Good question. What are you up to at
:42:45. > :42:52.the moment? I'm on tour, Birmingham this weekend. This Saturday at the
:42:53. > :42:55.old Vic theatre. Thank you for your time. No animosity, I hope. No
:42:56. > :42:56.animosity. That's your lot for
:42:57. > :42:58.tonight, but not for us. However, we're not
:42:59. > :42:59.going to Annabel's. Despite decades of loyalty,
:43:00. > :43:02.they've cranked up their membership fees and doubled the price
:43:03. > :43:08.of Blue Nun. Instead, we're off to join Diane
:43:09. > :43:15.in Big Nick's Speakeasy, Hackney. Diane's been dancing
:43:16. > :43:19.in Big Nick's for years and, now she's thrown off the Brexit flu,
:43:20. > :43:21.we're sure tonight Michael is quite agog
:43:22. > :43:26.at the prospect. In this week of housing crisis,
:43:27. > :43:29.Brexit turmoil and Trump diplomacy, take comfort in knowing that you can
:43:30. > :43:35.always trust your politicians to Nighty-night, don't let
:43:36. > :43:52.the rabid seagulls bite. I've had a number of constituents
:43:53. > :43:57.contact me regarding overzealous and aggressive seagulls. There is no
:43:58. > :44:07.dispute that seagulls are beginning to behave badly. The Aberdeen
:44:08. > :44:14.Seagull is the size of a large dog. It is a proper health and safety
:44:15. > :44:19.risk to our citizens. Nothing can really be safely eaten on the shore
:44:20. > :44:24.front without risking life and limb at the hands, or should I say the
:44:25. > :44:27.beak of a vicious Seagull. People are having to take it into their own
:44:28. > :44:32.hands to deal with these difficult and aggressive birds, which means
:44:33. > :44:37.there are people wandering the streets of Berwick. A number of
:44:38. > :44:39.people have visited A as a result of being injured a Seagull. People
:44:40. > :44:46.are living with seagulls. CROWD CLAMOURS
:44:47. > :44:47.Karen! Hey, Julie.
:44:48. > :44:49.JULIE LAUGHS Have you heard where they found her?
:44:50. > :44:53.No. Have you? Tell her she owes you
:44:54. > :44:59.the truth as a mate. 'You haven't lost you faith
:45:00. > :45:03.in people...have you?'